Ask Moxie

Q&A: "forced" potty training

Jenny writes:

"My son just turned 2 last week.  He goes to daycare 3 days a week, which he seems to enjoy (not as much as time with Mommy, but Mommy's got help bring home the bacon).  He is transitioning from the "Toddler I" class to "Toddler II."  He spends half his day in the first class, then half his day in the second.  In a couple weeks, he'll be in the 2nd class all day.  My problem is with the way they handle potty training in the second class.  They make the effort to help each kid sit on the little potty a few times a day.  They say they are just trying to get the kids used to the idea of the potty, learn what their body does, learn what the toilet does, etc.  They still leave a diaper on them all day, though.  While that all sounds fine and dandy, I have no intention of trying to get my son potty trained in the next few months.  I feel like I'm supposed to be reinforcing this behavior at home, but I just don't want to do it yet.  He's not showing any of the signs that he's interested or ready, and from what I hear about boys, if you start when they're 2, it's going to take you until they're 3-ish anyway.  (I know, all kids are different, but I just know he's not ready yet, and I have no desire to worry about this for a really long time unnecessarily.)

Is it ok to just let the day care people do what they're going to do, and ignore it at home for a while?  I don't want him getting confused, but I also don't want to force the issue when he's not interested yet.

Thanks!  I hope to get a little insight from you and other Moxie readers!"

Mmmmm....bacon. Have you all tried my Bacon-Brown Sugar Coffeecake recipe?

Anyway.

I think that as long as they're not forcing the kids or putting any pressure on them, it's fine. They probably do all kinds of stuff with the kids that you don't do at home, and he's learned that school has one set of rules and expectations and that home has another set.

Also, and I know you didn't ask this because you already know it, but it's totally fine for you not to hop on the potty-training wagon on someone else's schedule. You know your kid and what he's ready for. It's possible that he will end up trained from what they're doing in school, but probably not. (If he does, my bet is that it will be the influence of peer pressure, not the sitting-on-the-potty stuff itself.)

But the bottom line is that I don't think he'll get confused, any more than he gets confused by the difference in his routine during the week and on weekends. So just nod and smile about all of it, and do what you're going to do anyway.

Has anyone else ignored potty training at home while a child was going through the motions at school? How did it go?

Q& no A: One child has to go to the bathroom and the other doesn't

A situation that confounded me for a certain period of time, and is now plaguing an anonymous reader. I'll paraphrase (because the letter was very detailed):

"What do you do when you're out and your older child has to go to the bathroom but you're with a younger child, too?

I pack up the younger child with all his stuff and haul him along with us to the bathroom (and sometimes I can't even fit the stroller in the bathroom, depending on where we are). That's the best-case scenario. The other scenario is that the bathroom need comes on us so suddenly that I have no time to give a warning so the younger child freaks out and starts screaming and flailing not to stop playing and won't calm down when I say we're coming right back, so I can barely haul a kicking child with all of our crap to the bathroom and help my older one go."

I remember this, and it was my nightmare every single time it happened. My only real help is that eventually the younger one may be able to be convinced that when the older one goes, he should try to go, too. (One of my guiding principles of life is that when given the chance to use the toilet, one should. I'm passing that along to my kids, so they remind each other of it, and if one needs to go, the other one will try, too.)

What do/did you guys do? Is there some magic trick I completely missed? It's all the factors combined--the suddenness of the need in the older one, the resistance to change in the younger one, plus all the crap you have to haul around with two kids--that makes it so difficult.

Or do we all just grin and bear it until the kids are older?

Q&A: pooping only in diaper

Jillian writes:

"N (boy) is 3 years old and toilet trained for pee and 'diaper trained' for poo. That is, he can control when he poos, but refuses to do it in the toilet. He holds it until he's in bed for nap or the night (the only time he gets a diaper) and then lets loose. I've tried every form of incentive and they don't work. He's done it a couple of times in the toilet for chocolate, a cupcake AND 'toilet fairy' stickers (yes, all at once!) but he's back to doing it in the diaper. He has a fearful reaction to the idea of sitting on the toilet for poo combined with that 3-year old need for control. I can't even make him do it in the diaper in the bathroom - he has to be in his bedroom. I'm not pushing the issue because I don't want him to get constipated but changing a 3 year old's poopy diaper is getting old fast. Quite frankly, it's gross.

Would love to hear from anyone who's been there, done that."

I have no idea. I wish I did, but as I say every time we have a potty learning question, both my boys trained themselves, and I was just kind of the facilitator (and my babysitter B, too, with the second one). So I really have no secrets or much to offer on this.

So I'm tossing it out to the readers, and hoping someone's been through this and has some words of advice for Jillian. I agree that it seems counterproductive to try to force it. Would it help to have N shadow another kid who poops in the toilet so he'd be encourage by peer pressure? It sounds like rewards aren't working. Anything else anyone can suggest?

Q&A: bloody, mucusy stools

Rachel's got a question that's stumping me:

"My daughter is almost 5 months old and has had frequent bloody and mucusy stools on and off since she was about 6 weeks old. She is exclusively breastfed.  Our pediatrician initially said it was dairy and soy protein from my diet, so I cut those out. It seemed to make no difference. I then cut out wheat, then eggs, until eventually the "top 8" allergens were out of my diet. Still no improvement. My pediatrician says to wait it out, and since my daughter is gaining weight, seems happy, and is meeting developmental milestones I shouldn't worry. I just don't feel right about this, and since we are creeping up on solids introduction age I really want to figure it out.  Do you have any suggestions? We are so at the end of our ropes here."

Yeah, I just can't imagine that having blood and mucus in your poop is something that should just be ignored, so I'm kind of shocked that your pediatrician is telling you not to worry. Something is definitely not right.

You've dealt with the most obvious things: dairy, soy, wheat, eggs, etc.

Is this ringing a bell with anyone? I'm trying to think backwards through what I'd suggest if it were an adult suffering from blood and mucus in the stool, but I'm not getting anywhere with that in my head, either.

Was your daughter ever given antibiotics? That's the only thing that's jumping immediately to mind.

Please jump in with ideas if this is sounding familiar to anyone.

Q&A: pooping in her sleep

Carole writes:

"Is there any way I can engineer my 9 1/2 month old baby's diet to reduce the likelihood of us waking up to her in a messy diaper?

We sleep trained her about a month ago (and it's AMAZING, happy happy girl she is now that she's well rested), and have her on a pretty solid schedule, but when we go in to her at 7am she's been poopy for the last three mornings.  She generally poops twice a day.

I breastfeed her at 7pm, 7am and 1am.  She gets formula at 2:30 when I'm at work, breastmilk when I'm home.  She's a big eater, and loves everything, curry, mildly spiced thai food, fish, tofu, whatever we're having for dinner.  Should I make her evening meal more grains and less meat or fiber?  Are there any suggestions for helping avoid making her sit in poop?  (Other than going in to her every time she wakes up and cries for a minute?  She's usually back asleep again within 5 minutes.)"

See, this is yet another situation in which my Trained Monkey Assistants would come in handy. (I've had this idea for years that I should open a ranch where we train monkeys to do things for tired parents like pop back in dropped pacifiers in the middle of the night, wash out sippy cups of milk, match baby socks, etc. Changing middle-of-the-night poop diapers would be a great job for the TMA. Then my friend who actually works in primate research had to shatter my dream by telling me she thinks monkeys would mostly be ill-suited for this job temperament-wise. Easy come, easy go, I guess.)

I think you have two options: 1) Experiment with stuffing her full of binding foods (like rice and Veggie Booty) a few hours before bed, or 2) Wait it out until her pooping pattern changes on its own.

Feeding her binding foods could do the trick, or it could have no effect whatsoever. There's really no way to tell. And I guess it's also possible that you could end up going too far and constipating her for a day or two until you work the balance back out. But, if you are the kind of person who likes to be actively working on a problem, then you might as well try it and see what happens.

The real truth is that it's going to stop eventually, because as her eating and movement changes her pooping is going to change, too. So you could just cut to the chase and wait it out. If you're feeling particularly tired or worn out, that's certainly going to be the best option. But if you want to work on the problem, try messing around with her food, and it may ease things more quickly, or eventually she'll just stop pooping at night on her own.

If she were older, I'd tell you to teach her to yell out "poop"or some special sign when she's actually pooped, so you'd know it was that and not just that little night-waking thing some kids do. At this age, she could probably learn a hand sign for poop, but that doesn't help any of you in the middle of the night.

Any suggestions to help Carole get to her daughter when she's pooped, without having to go in for every little peep? Did anyone else go through a night-time pooping stage with a baby this old?

Wow

Do you know what is NOT a good idea?

To have had about 30 g of fiber by lunchtime, and then to absentmindedly eat all the dried figs that are sitting on your desk during the afternoon. (They're just so nice and chewy and sweet.) Approximate dried fig count: 15. Approximate grams of fiber that was: 30.

You can do the math there. Not pleasant. I think I'm having flashbacks to Lord of the Flies.

Cheryl, do you know why too much fiber makes a person stink? Because I definitely noticed that a few hours after Figgate I started to smell like I was two weeks postpartum (sweaty, unshowered, a little sour milk-y) and it lasted for a few hours.

Fascinating. And unpleasant. Fortunately my only plans for the evening were watching my DVR'd episode of The Biggest Loser. (Does anyone else watch? I've been rooting for Kelly the whole time, and love how she's blossomed and gotten so much self-confidence during the course of the show.)

About this fiber thing

It's really interesting that so many of the commenters yesterday mentioned that the solution to their children's potty problems (especially peeing problems) was giving their kids more fiber.

Since I've been getting 5 servings of vegetables every day, I decided to take the next step and start looking at my fiber intake. Apparently adequate fiber intake is the lynchpin of good health. Its helps with elimination, moisture maintenance, glucose and insulin level regulation, healthy skin, and weight maintenance. It helps prevent cancers of the bowel, colon, and stomach. (And, according to this book, eating enough fiber is all you need to do to lose weight. Right.)

In short, fiber is good. Adults are supposed to be getting 30 grams or more a day. (I didn't see a figure for kids in the stuff I was reading, so if anyone knows a good benchmark for fiber intake for kids, please post it.)

I gave in and joined FitDay.com (which I don't love, but it's free and seems to work OK) to track what I was eating to see how I was doing on fiber. You'd think raw kale and spinach would add a lot of fiber to your morning smoothie, but you'd be wrong, because the smoothie ingredient that actually contains the most fiber is the frozen raspberries I've been tossing in just because I like the taste. But I've been getting around 20-25 g of fiber a day without trying very hard (except for the vegetable thing, which was hard at the beginning but isn't anymore).

I'm starting the T-Tapp 60-Day Challenge on Friday, and have decided that my game plan is consistency with the workouts (three a week) and 40 g of fiber a day (I picked 40 sort of randomly). So over this week I've been slowly trying to bump up my fiber intake so I don't cause any sudden stomach issues. The next step is going to be to try to switch around some of the things the boys eat so they're getting more fiber without noticing the difference. I think in the long run, being in the habit of getting plenty of fiber is one of the best things that can happen to them healthwise.

Anyone else interested in investigating the whole fiber thing? Thoughts? Secret recipes? Have you upped your own fiber? Have you upped your kids' fiber?

(My favorite breakfast so far is cooked quinoa, reheated in the microwave at work, with raw almonds, pumpkin seeds, and dried cranberries and a little raw honey. 15g of fiber, and sticks with you for hours and hours and hours.)

Toilet regressions

I know we talked about potty training not so long ago, but in the past couple of weeks I've gotten four (4!) emails from people with kids over the age of three who are mostly potty trained, but who are now having regressions.

The details are all a little different, but mostly similar. The children were potty trained (at least during the day), but is now having accidents or refusing to go in the toilet/potty. Sometimes it's happening at home, sometimes at preschool, and one is happening at daycare. The parents are perplexed and worried, because the kids were using the toilet with no problems, but are now backsliding.

Remember that I really know nothing about potty training and toilet issues. But there are a couple of things I'd take a look at. The first is emotional issues. When something stresses a kid, even in a positive way, elimination control is one of the first things to go. Starting school, even if they love school, can cause backsliding. A new sibling, even for up to a year after the baby arrives, can cause it. Even something like spring break or a birthday celebration can trigger regressions.

If you think it's some kind of emotional thing that's causing the backsliding, then the best course of action is probably just to try to get things on an even keel again as soon as you can. Get into a new solid routine if things have changed, and get back into the old routine if it was seasonal excitement.

The other thing to look at if the accidents are pee accidents, is a urinary tract infection. If you've ever had one you know that one of the symptoms is feeling like you have to pee all the freaking time. Imagine this for a 3-year-old who's being reprimanded for not  holding it in. A doctor can diagnose it with a urine sample, and it's easy to treat, so if you even suspect that it might be a UTI, swing past your pediatrician's office and get it tested.

I have no backup on this, but I'm going to guess that food allergies could probably trigger toilet regression, too, since they basically make a kid's system go haywire in lots of ways. The same way food sensitivities/allergies/etc. can cause tantrums and horrible behavior in 3+-year-old kids, they could be the final thing that pushes a kid not to be able to control elimination.

Anyone else go through a child who regressed? Do you know what caused it? Was there anything you did about it that worked? Or did you just wait it out?

Setting the scene for potty training?

After I posted that my younger son went into underpants on my birthday, I got four emails from people asking how I set the stage for him to be able to make his own decision.

I don't actually know. I really really thought he'd be so different from his brother, who was doing all the potty-training stuff (always went on his own inside the house) but still wore a diaper when we went out. But, go figure, they both ended up doing the same thing, which was telling me at the last second that they weren't going to wear a diaper that day.

I honestly don't think it's anything I did, but rather that they're potty-training anomalies.

Now, if you'd asked me that question 3 years ago, I'd have said that I hopped on my oldest son's interested as soon as he expressed them (getting him a potty when he was 16 months, for instance, and stopping to watch every dog on the street do his business). But my younger son wasn't interested in underpants until I bought them, and, in fact, told me several times that he was going to wear a diaper "fow-evew, mom-mom."

Maybe it was because I took his claims seriously, while still giving him an out. Maybe it was all the talk about "big boys wear underpants."Maybe it was seeing his friend O wearing underpants and peeing in the potty.

At this point I have the luxury of not caring, because he even switched into underpants at night and has been getting up to pee on his own for three nights running.

But I'm betting there are some of you who have systematized ways of setting a relaxed-but-motivating environment for your kids to get out of diapers. I've said it before, but I think it's far easier to push a kid to train when they're closer to two than to three. By the time they turn three, they really dig in their heels. So bear that in mind, that when they're younger they may be less physically ready, but when they're older it's less about technique and more about mind games.

Any comments about creating the right environment for an older kid to decide to make the leap?

Now with extra pooping?

Neil is wondering if anyone else has experienced radically increased pooping from your baby when you switched from regular formula to a formula enhanced with Omega 3s. It makes sense to me that that could happen, but it would be nice to have some data points.