Q&A: weaning earlier than you want to

Second half of yesterday's post, on negotiating things with your mother, is getting bumped for this cry for help. Kirsten writes:

"I am sorry to be so pushy, but I am in a desperate, time sensitive nursing situation. My 13 month old who has been the nursingest baby ever got a cold, started teething and went on a 100% nursing strike. I have been working with a LC and am doing EVERYTHING I can. I have always had a meager supply and take Reglan and I don't let down well for the pump, so even though I have a hospital grade Lactina, I am still only pumping about 6-7 oz. per day. I know I am going to lose my supply soon. The baby, I hate to admit, is no closer to getting back on the breast that she was a week ago, she just get furious whenever she sees a boob anywhere in the vicinity. I wake her up in the night to catch her sleepy, I try in different places/positions/noise levels. People keep saying that it is unnatural to wean this young, but it also feels unnatural that I am forcing my will on someone who seems to very much know that she wants no part of breastfeeding at this point. We are on day 9 of the strike. I wanted to nurse at least another year. I feel guilty, rejected and sad. What do I do?

It would mean the world to me if you would respond and allow other mothers to comment to my dilemma. My supply is only going to hold on another few days."

Who are these jackasses who are telling you it's "unnatural" to wean this young? All other things being equal, if you lived in a tribal society 500 years ago your baby would probably still be nursing*. But, realistically, what control do you have over 1) a nursing strike that sounds serious, and 2) your supply?

Until we figure out if there's anything we can do to reverse the effects of all the plastics and other things in our environment that are screwing with women's supplies on a large scale, we all just need to back away from the guilt.

And, seriously, how much control can you have over a baby? If you're working with a knowledgeable LC who knows all the tricks to help babies and moms through nursing strikes, and it's not working, then it looks like it's your time.

FWIW, I think a majority of us are conflicted about the weaning process, no matter how old our babies are. Two weeks, two years, three years...you always feel like you should be doing more. You wean and your baby gets a cold or ear infection the next week, and you think it's you. Heck, my mom still feels bad that I weaned myself at 16 months or so--she'd wanted to nurse until two years. But you know what, 34 years later, we're both healthy and happy and still close to each other.

Anyone who's been through a rough nursing strike, who didn't nurse as long as she wanted to, who wasn't able to nurse at all, or has at any point felt disappointed in how things went with their baby or toddler, show some love, please.

* Or someone else in your tribe would be nursing your baby for you.

Comments

[Amy A]

I did not succeed at nursing my two kids for a variety of reasons. One problem was I was unable to let down for the pump. I did a lot of research between my first and second and found out that Rescue Remedy can be helpful with letdown. http://www.rescueremedy.com/ I was very skeptical, but desperate. When I started using it when my 2nd was a newborn, I went from pumping 1 oz to pumping about 5 oz.

Good luck with your decision and take care of yourself.

[Another Helen]

I want to pick up on the other Helen's point that it is fine to want to keep going, if you can. Nothing wrong with trying, if you want to. I agree with everyone's thoughts about not feeling guilty if it doesn't work out. But, like Helen, I hear you asking for suggestions, in additon to support.

My suggestion would be to try a honeymoon with the baby. This is much easier with a newborn, but your toddler might be willing, if only because it's novel and means LOTS of time with Mama.

Essentially, what you do is take the baby to bed with you, beginning in the morning after breakfast, and stay there all day long except for bathroom breaks, diaper changes (though you can do them on the bed, I would think), and meals. You wear an open top so your toddler has constant access to your breasts. For a toddler, you might bring some toys into bed with you, in case she gets bored or thinks the action in some other part of the house is more interesting.

You want to avoid the distractions of other kids, pets, etc. If you have a partner or someone who can help you, you'll need them to do the honeymoon. The point of all this is to give your girl constant, unfettered, unpressured, and undistracted access to your breasts. You might also take her in the tub with her and offer to nurse her there, as another commenter suggested.

You're not trying to force her to do anything -- the idea of the honeymoon is for the two of you to be together, with nothing else to to but nurse. She may not be willing. But it may be that the undistracted time with Mama, and the focus on nursing (not because you pressure her, but because your breasts are right there and available) is enough to get her interested again.

Good luck with this issue! Nothing is easy with little ones, is it.

[Beth]

I just went through something similar. My 11 month old just up and decided one day that he was done. It was a total shock to me, since he was a great nurser from the very beginning and would freak anytime he saw a boob to be latched on. Couldn't get enough then all the sudden didn't want any. I tried my darndest to get that kid back on, but he wouldn't have it. And I pumped for a while to try and stave off the PPD. I felt guilty and sad about it, and still do on occasion (it's been about a month), but now I also feel a kind of freedom and have finally been able to lose the rest of the weight that I was holding onto while nursing.
It was tough, but I figure he has wants and desires and his own personality and will do what he wants to do. I did what I could, and I did a good job and we can both be happy with that.

[Another Helen again]

I should say that the honeymoon idea is one way to boost supply with babies of all ages, particularly younger babies. It's a lot easier with younger babies, since they are less distractable and often more willing to spend a day intermittently dosing and nursing.

[zimbabweanjen]

I think that any time you stop breastfeeding is so hard and sad and a strange kind of relief all in one. 13 months is a brilliant achievement. I had to abruptly wean at 10 months because of illness and it was horrible. I would never do that again. But it also meant the beginning of getting to sleep all night, as my husband went in to the baby (who lets face it was just nibbling and fussing rather than feeding at night by the time he was about 8 months). It also meant a huge lifting of a self-imposed burden that I was totally responsible for every thing that went wrong, colds, crying (maybe he's hungry) etc.

The only thing you must be so careful of if you do end up weaning is getting depressed. The hormone swings are unbelievable. Especially if you change from the mini-pill to the combination pill at around the same time as you stop breastfeeding. Take extra care of yourself. And if you feel awful and weepy and a failure, remember that with simple steps you will feel better. I think Moxie has posted about depression and weaning before.

Hope I didn't repeat anything. Just pat yourself on the back for getting this far, and be gentle with yourself as you go through the total mommy mourning the end of breastfeeding thing!I think your baby will be fine, and as you watch her doing well and growing etc, you'll realise that everything is ok.

[LauraJ]

Your post brought tears to my eyes remembering my own experience. At 12.5 months we got ready to nurse as normal, my daughter latched on for a second and abruptly reared back and started struggling to get away from me. And that was that. I spent a month pumping and trying every trick in the book to get her to come back but she never did. I don't know if it was teething, her love of newly-introduced cows' milk or something else entirely but I think it was harder on me than it was on her. I'm sorry I don't have any words of wisdom for you but I just wanted to let you know that there are many of us out there who feel your pain.

[Amy]

I haven't read the other comments, but here is my two cents. My first thought was, "Is that a typo? Does she mean 13 WEEKS?" Either way (months or weeks), I would advise letting go of this enormous pressure you are putting on yourself. I went through this same agony at 12 weeks with my daughter, and the two statements from my support system that helped me the most were these:

1) There are two people in a breastfeeding relationship - you and your baby. Both of you have a responsibility to do your part. (I know the word "responsibility" might strike some as harsh, but I think it's accurate). If you baby won't nurse, you cannot force that baby to nurse. All you can do is provide her with the opportunities. And if she won't do it, there are other means of nourishing her.

2) Formula, if you decide to go that route, is not poison. It is the second-best option available to mothers to make sure their children are fed. As a friend said to me, "It isn't as if you're putting Coca Cola in the bottle, for heaven's sake!"

I think breastfeeding is fabulous and important and the number one best source of food for a baby. But if it's time for breastfeeding to end, IT'S OKAY. Your child will be wonderful and healthy, you will be less stressed and able to enjoy your baby and motherhood. You've had a huge success, doing it this long (whether 13 weeks or 13 months)!

[paola]

Kirsten, don't know if this helps, but my daughter (16 months) often went thru periods directly related to Wonder Weeks and Fussy Periods where she went off breastfeeding for a few days and was/is an otherwise voracious nurser. I did worry at the time that she was going to self-wean, but no. At the 55 week fussy period, she almost totally went off her solids rather than the breast and then magically, slowed down on the breast and started to eat again. A friend's baby weaned on her first birthday (55 week fussy period) but it might have been a temporary thing which the mother took as permanent and never followed up on it. At 13 months kids are still reeling from the 55 week FP and so if you persist perhaps she might want to nurse again in a few weeks. Perhaps not, but it might be worth a try

[Lisa F.]

Kirsten, sorry you're having such a stressful time. breastfeeding seems like such a loaded subject these days.

I like other posters suggestions to keep the door open, but try not to sweat it if it's done. A friend fully intended to nurse as long as possible and her daughter weaned right at a year. I nursed til 2.5 and had to instigate weaning myself cause I was DONE. all kids are different.

do look out for mental health, I was surprised by some serious anxiety & intrusive thoughts even after gradually stopping our only 1 nurse a day in morning. And I still had milk months after we weaned (of course me checking every morning in shower may have had something to do w/that!)

wishing you peace through this transition however it goes!

[paola]

I hope you don't mind if I hijack the thread to ask a question related to weaning that I have been playing with today. My 16 month old has never been much of an eater. She is a wee slip of a lass (9 kgs/19 lbs) and consistently at 3% for weight. Like all kids at this age, she don't wanna eat, or at least , she won't eat much (loves yogurt, fruit, and weetbix- in fact breakfast is the only meal she happily partakes in). She does get 4 meals of breast milk a day, 3 of which are substantial, the other is a few minutes attached but little sucking. Today when I mentioned to the ped that she is such an unenthusiastic eater and that I still nurse her 4 times a day, the ped said we could assess the situation at the next check-up (in one month's time), and possibly cut back on one or two sessions at the breast. She admitted that toddlers are very fickle eaters, but perhaps limiting her bmilk intake, might persuade her to eat more. I think it's a long shot actually. My 3 year old was much the same but I wasn't phased if he didn't eat as he was growing so well. Has anyone had any luck in getting their finicky toddler to eat more, by reducing how much they nurse? Sorry, sorry for taking over.

[Kate]

Kudos for making it to 13 months! That's an amazing accomplishment in any circumstances.

When my son got fussy for a bit around that age (though he never stopped for more than a day), nursing in the bath tub always seemed to bring him back. You might try it, if you want to get back to nursing.

My milk supply disappeared overnight when I got a horrible stomach flu. Gone, kaput, nothin' left. No pain either, which is cool.

No physical pain, that is. The psychic pain hasn't ended, 3 months later. Although we nursed until 38 months, it felt as though our choice was stolen ("Mommy got a flu bug that took away all the milk in her nurs" is his explanation). We snuggle a lot, but I miss that connection terribly sometimes.

He still asks to nurse periodically, but he's completely forgotten how. He tenderly kisses my nipple and sadly says "no more milk."

[mo]

I can't comment on the BFing issues as I didn't BF (definite guilt there is very warranted guilt as I basically gave up as soon as both twins boys (first hour or two in the hospital) cried so hard while I was trying to get them to eat but then that so hard to hear crying stopped and my babies were happy once we put a bottle in their mouth.. I was also overwhelmed by the idea of BFing twins but that was a side note to the not being able to take the crying that first day, second day, etc.)

Anyway, just thought I'd pipe in on Paola's post. Have you tried feeding solids first and then BFing a good 1/2 hour or so late. Baby and Toddlers' tummies are just so small that probably even just an ounce or two of BM or formula would fill them up enough so that they aren't so hungry for the real food. Maybe even shift your schedule around so that you only do solids for "meals" and BM as snacks? Just a thought... One of my boys is less of an eater than the other and we definitely have to reduce or delay his milk (still to this day and he's now 3) or he won't eat so well at dinner.

[zenjen]

I want to extend big hugs to Kirsten. And slap the person that is telling her that it's "unnatural" to wean this early with a big, big wet noodle. What a jerk. As the previous posters have already said and demonstrated, every baby/toddler and mommy pair is unique have their own schedule.

I was taken off-guard a couple of weeks ago when it looks like my 17 month old son was weaning himself. He just refused to nurse for 3 days. Then he started acting weird in other ways (very fussy, not sleeping) and it turned out to be an ear infection. No fever but the pediatrician still put him on an antibiotic because his ears were so red and bulging. After 48 hours on the antibiotic, he wanted to nurse again. And with a vengeance.

Now he nurses even more than before but I am attributing that to him pushing towards 18 months. He's adding nursing sessions now.

This experience has been interesting because I was definitely so, so sad when he wouldn't nurse for those 3-4 days. I was crying to my DH about it being over, etc etc. But now that my son is nursing more than ever, I think 'hmm, maybe I should have weaned earlier'. I think nursing is one of those things that moms can't help but sometimes feel ambivalent about it.

[Katherine]

I had the same thing happen just before my daughter turned 13 months. She started refusing out of the blue and got hysterical every time I tried to get her to nurse. I finally figured out, after I caught it from her, that she had some variant of hand-foot-mouth that caused little tiny blisters on her tongue and inside her lips. I can attest that it hurt like hell for me to eat. I can only imagine nursing hurt even worse due to the friction on her tongue.

Due to her age and the fact that she wasn't upset by not nursing, I decided to just let it go. That may be the right thing for you as well. You've done a wonderful thing by nursing her this long. If you do decide to let it go, take a couple days to grieve and cry a little if you need to. But never let anyone make you feel guilty.

[Mommie Mentor]

Both of my children self weaned at 16 months—I was nowhere close to ready. I was sad and I cried. I wasn't ready to move to the next stage, but they were!
I agree with Moxie, it’s perfectly normal to self wean at 13 months.

I believe Amy and many others have asked the big question here, why do women do this to each other?

Why do women try to find their self worth by comparing themselves to others?
Why do women challenge a mother’s instincts just because they don't match their own?

Every mother needs to be able to count on her own natural instincts so she can use them as her guidance system for the years to come. No mother needs to defend herself, especially on such delicate issues. We believe in natural remedies, in organic foods, why can’t we believe and trust in the natural process of life—our own instincts?

Each human being on the planet has different needs and the same needs all at once. Every mother and child require different things to manage day-to-day life. And yet every mother and child need, and deserve respect for following their own instincts and parenting their children the way they choose to. There is no one way.

Just my rant for the morning! I’m so sorry that anyone made you feel conflicted about weaning. I hope you can feel the love and support from all the women who have posted here.

[Carolyn]

@eep, I could have written your post and I cried when I read it...and my son is 17 months old. I had a hemorrhage when he was born and my body was so whacked out my milk never came in. He also had a disorganized suck. He ended up with two emergency room visits and a 48-hour children's hospital stay in the first five days of his life, since he was basically starving to death.

Sitting in a room by yourself pumping...check. Ridiculous SNS hanging from a baseball cap...check. Fenugreek...check. The only thing I wouldn't do was Reglan, since I was already almost homicidal with "baby blues" (don't know if it counts as PPD if it only lasts two weeks). The sense of relief I had when I stopped the "heroic measures" was what got me out of the PPD, or whatever. We nursed a couple times a day until he was seven weeks old, at which point he refused to continue. I'm just hoping and praying that when we have kid no. 2 at some point, I'll have milk. I'm also hoping and praying that I'll have the stamina to breastfeed, since I now know what it's like to share the responsibility of feeding with dad, grandmas, etc...it's nice. But I've never felt worse about anything in my entire life. And I'm still not over it, I have to admit.

Anyway, all this is to say that @Kirsten, we all have so many wonderful plans and heavy emotional issues around breastfeeding. You should celebrate what you have been able to give your daughter, keep offering her the breast if it doesn't feel like you've been stabbed through the heart every time she rejects you, and eventually you will reach a new equilibrium. The other thing we all know as parents is that whatever is normal now won't be in a couple of weeks!

[hedra]

@paola, The strategies for gaining on small-end children are a bit different than for larger ones that aren't growing well. So look for info categorized usually under the Failure To Thrive info (FTT) - it's not a good heading, but kids under 5th%ile have a slightly different program than kids over that. I've also posted a few times about the mid-parental height averaging rule - it's best to find out where she SHOULD be landing, genetic-range-wise, before fretting much.

If you're really concerned about the feeding development as a whole, I'd go see a feeding clinic (no idea if they have those around where you are - but the combo of pediatric nutritionist, speech language pathologist (for oral function), developmental pediatrician, and other specialists (GI in our case) was a real help for figuring out what to do - AND for not getting too stressed out. Most of the 'less specialized' docs were more stressed out about the not eating than the specialists were. I don't think you *need* to all in all, but I liked having a less stressed-out set of resource people with more knowledge.

So, for the thoughts/info they gave me:

1) calories are first (growth in the first 3 years is goverened more by caloric intake than by anything else, though genetics plays a big role, it's less a role than you'd think). It's hard to find something a kid will eat that's more nutritionally dense than breastmilk. If enough calories are going in, then you've got TIME to figure the rest out.

2) Kids know their calories. That is, if they're in charge of what they eat and how much, then they're likely to stick with what their body needs. If you up the calories in their foods, and they drop how much they eat (taking it back to the same total calories), odds are good that they're listening to their bodies on how many calories to eat. But...

3) That said, you can sneak in more calories and se what happens. The feeding clinic people didn't care what form they came in - milkshakes were fine! (though in our case, the nutritionist said G was right-on for calories consumed) Drizzling oil on anything, adding whole cream to anything, adding avocado, fatty fish, meat, etc. - various strategies. We weren't dealing with that side of things, so I don't know all the options.

4) The 'overall nutrition' worry - breastmilk again is nutritionally dense. That plus a few other foods provides a LOT of food value. And how much they need is really small at that age, which seems weird, but is true. A pediatric nutritionist may be able to help determine if there's a deficit, but to ease your mind in general - even severely picky eaters tend to be only slightly shy on a limited set of nutrients. G is consistently shy on Vitamin A and fiber, but only a smidge. One multivitamin every-other-day is enough to cover the difference on the vitamins, and he seems okay without the fiber for now.

5) Keep in mind that the highest normal appetite for a toddler-to-preschooler is morning. They should be kind of so-so at lunch, tapering down to 'what, are you KIDDING?' around dinner time. ;) Actually, very much like milk supply pattern - highest starting early morning through mid-morning, then okay around lunch through very early afternoon, then going down fast through evening and into night. More snacks with high food value earlier in the day may make more difference than trying to get them to eat later when their appetite is already dim.

6) That said, I don't know how many snacks/nursings she's getting. Something that is also true with kids this age is that they may not eat 'enough' if they're not HUNGRY. Constant grazing is just right for some people, but for others it ends up suppressing appetite, or at least suppressing an understanding of their body's signals. Some people will overeat if they graze, others will under-eat if they graze. If she's a grazer, scheduling the snack times (and even (GASP!) the nursing times) in the day at this point may be something to explore. Just to see if that's playing a role.

Try Ellyn Satter's books on feeding, for specific ideas. Good luck!

[hedra]

And @Mo, I still don't think that's deserved guilt. It's called twinshock, and it isn't a normal state of mind. It's hard to deal with one crying baby, but two at once... hey, even with plenty of experience, it was pretty overwhelming!

[Menita]

V. similar story to Anonymous', with both my children. Daughter NEVER latched, so I pumped night and day for four months. Son was in hospital shortly after birth, and when he came out was nursing round the clock and milk was never enough so he had supplemental as well. I was done at the end of the third month. Bad PPD in both cases. Did I feel sorry? Yes. Had I more than made my peace with it by the time i weaned my son? Oh yes, yes, yes. But "other people" were pretty horrid.

[paola]

Thanks mo, but most of the nursing comes after she eats, except breakfast and she will have two whole breasts and then weetabix with yogurt and a biscuit. My only thought was that she really wasn't that hungry at lunch time, but she starts to say 'pappa pappa' and goes to her highchair and then the moment I put the bowl in front of her she shuts her mouth unless of course it's banana or something she likes. It is definitely a power issue for her as even if she's full, she has room for something she likes or even if she's starving will not have what I have spent lots of time preparing.

[Kim]

Mine went on a nursing strike abruptly at 9 1/2 months. Looking back, I think it might have been nipple confusion, because we had switched to a BPA-free bottle shortly before the strike. Ironic, isn't it? If you have recently switched bottles, you might try going back to one with a slower flow.

Same story with me: I was devastated, I tried every tip could find, but he never came back. I got over it after a few days, but those few days I was profoundly sad.

I am still pumping, trying to make it to a year. The supply has dropped but I'm still able to give him a couple bottles of expressed milk every day.

Let me stress this: just about every book, and everyone on Kellymom, will make you feel bad, like you're not trying hard enough to get your baby back to nursing. I'm SO glad to hear that in reality, this happens all the time EVEN with babies younger than a year. (Every book except the Dr. Sears book, which said if you try for a week or so without success, the baby is an early weaner and it's OK to move on.) Thanks, ladies!

[Nut Mommy]

On a tangentially related topic, does anyone know of any information sources on how to wean that don't make it sound like my child is going to turn into an axe murderer if I wean him at a year?

I share Kirsten's frustration that most of the main sources out there (LLL website, Kellymom, etc.) seem to be more focused on placing blame about weaning rather than recognizing that there is an appropriate time for every mother and child to do so. My goal was always to BF for a year and I'm just a couple of weeks away, but now I don't know how to stop. DS is a good eater of solids but will only take a bottle from his caregiver, no one else, and will not take a sippy cup. But I've been unable to find any practical advice as to how to solve these problems. I keep trolling LLL looking for advice but just end up feeling bad about myself.

[Sherry]

We're a week short of 13 months of breastfeeding here. We're down to twice a day and occasionally once a day. I'm so glad I did it, even though low supply was a struggle, but I think I'm looking for somebody to tell me it's okay to stop. I want to hear, "It's actually better for babies to stop nursing at a year." Of course, that's not true so no one's going to say it. I have no advice; just wanted to offer sympathy to Kirsten. I'm reading comments eagerly. My guess is that Kirsten's baby will nurse again if Kirsten keeps offering, but what if she has to struggle through weaning later? Maybe after 13 months, it's best to let it go if the baby is ready? I really don't know.

[paola]

Also thanks Hedra (your comment came up later), knew I could count on you. Really the ped is not worried about my daughter's situation. In fact she told me flat out today that they worry more about the big babies /toddlers rather than the little ones (in terms of weight that is).INnteresting what you said about when kids are most hungry and I have found exactly that. if she's going to eat something it's lunch rather than dinner and always in the morning. In fact, perhaps I should give her more to eat for breakfast and lunch later, although really that other problem is that she won't eat if she's too tired and she starts winding down for her nap around 11, so I have to get her lunch in before she's tired, but when she's hungry. Can be a bit tricky.

[Sherry]

Rats. My comment got eaten. We're a week short of 13 months here, only bfing twice a day, and I think I'm looking for someone to tell me it's okay to stop. I want to hear, "It's really better for your baby if you stop now," which I'm not going to hear because it's not true. I've loved breastfeeding even though I've struggled with low supply, but I don't so much love it now. My guess is that Kirsten's baby might nurse again if Kirsten keeps offering it, but what if she struggles later to wean? Is it better to wean now, when she seems ready? I don't know.

[m]

My hunch is that "unnatural to wean so young" is coming from the WHO guidelines that we should be nursing for two years minimum.

I had really wanted to nurse my first son that long, but then I got pregnant and I just couldn't do it anymore. Mentally and physically trying to nourish three beings was too much for me and I weaned my eldest son over the duration of a month when he was about 15 months.

We do what we can, but we really must listen to the child (and our own bodies) to tell us when it's time to stop. Please, please don't beat yourself up over it. You've done a great job!

[Laura]

Adding another data point, for what it's worth: my first daughter nursed constantly, on demand, until 2 and a half years and would still be nursing at 7 years if she had her way. My second never wanted to nurse more than 10 minutes at a time, was very regular about nursing times, and decided on her own that she wanted nothing more to do with nursing at 8 months. I kept trying for another two months, but she wasn't interested. (Those were scary months because she wouldn't take a sippy cup or bottle either, as she'd never learned how!) This is to say that it probably isn't anything you are doing- babies are all different. I think my second daughter was just interested in exploring new things. Luckily for me she still loves to snuggle!

[Sherry]

Rats. My comment got eaten. We're a week short of 13 months here, only bfing twice a day, and I think I'm looking for someone to tell me it's okay to stop. I want to hear, "It's really better for your baby if you stop now," which I'm not going to hear because it's not true. I've loved breastfeeding even though I've struggled with low supply, but I don't so much love it now. My guess is that Kirsten's baby might nurse again if Kirsten keeps offering it, but what if she struggles later to wean? Is it better to wean now, when she seems ready? I don't know.

[Sarah]

Kirsten,
Earlier in the comments I suggested you "celebrate" but now I realize that was a poor choice of words---I only meant that you should be allowed to feel what you feel without others making you feel bad and I am sorry they are doing so. My thought was if you could some how ritually mark this time of weaning it would help.
Sorry if I sounded insensitive.

[liz]

MM wouldn't nurse at all. HATED the breast. HATED facing in. Wanted to face out AT ALL TIMES.

So I pumped for 9 months until the 9 month slow-down, then gave it up.

I felt horrible that he wouldn't nurse but felt good that I was pumping. When I quit pumping, I felt horrible about that too.

You did a great job for your child and your child is telling you she's ready to move on. Give yourself a great big hug, and we will all give you a standing ovation for nourishing your daughter so well!

[Momma Mary]

You are SO not alone in this. Weaning is the #1 search topic to stumble across my blog because I spent a LOT of time blogging about it, stressing about it, and wondering how to do it. I don't get a LOT of traffic, but I do get lots of weaning traffic. I ended up weaning earlier than I wanted to. My son was using me as a chew toy rather than a food source. I chose to wean, he didn't self-wean. But, 13 months is NOT too early to wean. Many children do wean themselves, and if I were you, I would try not to worry about it too much. She's eating solid foods, and growing up. :) Don't let anyone pressure you to do ANYTHING. Think about it, sleep on it, and pray on it. You'll both be fine, no matter what happens!

[Emily]

I hope I'm not hijacking this post, but I'm feeling pretty desperate myself. I have an 11 day old baby and I'm failing miserably at breastfeeding. That's how I feel, like I'm failing. I've never felt so terrible about anything in my life.

I went through a miscarriage followed by three years of infertility, then six months of fertility treatment before becoming pregnant with her. PCOS has been tossed around, but never diagnosed for sure. I asked my OB while I was pregnant if this could affect my milk supply and she said no.

I had lactation consultants and nurses help me with her latch on the day she was born. We struggled a bit, but eventually would get it. I thought we were making progress and that everything would be ok. But on day two, she would nurse for seconds and then scream. This continued all day and night - she was beside herself with exhaustion and hunger. She was losing weight quickly. We had to supplement.

Since then, I've met with my pediatrician's lactation consultant. I've shown her what I get from a half hour's pumping - about an ounce, maybe an ounce and a half. I'm taking Reglan, Fenugreek, drinking water by the gallon, putting her to the breast as often as I can (if she's too hungry, forget it). I pump at least 6 times a day and give her everything I have. I try to tell myself that anything I can give her is good, but I don't really believe it.

The first time I fed her formula, I cried and cried. I cry about it every day. I had every intention of breastfeeding her for the first two years. The guilt and sadness are debilitating.

[Bethiclaus]

My first weaned herself at 15 months in what I thought was a nursing strike. I had been willing to nurse her to 2, but she wasn't interested anymore. I think that after one, especially if they're drinking cow's milk, the amont of breast milk being produced is somewhat irrelevant if you both want to keep up the nursing relaationship. If you really want to keep nursing, continue offering and keep pumping - only you know when to call it a day.

[cn]

Oh, I know how early-than-you-want feels.

We did this at 8 mos. I wanted to make a year. I kept my supply up with pumping -- hoping against hope that he'd return.

Ear infection made him stop. It hurt him to nurse (not feed sitting up more).

I read the usual breastfeeding site for help, and felt worse. It told me my child would never stop on his own that young.

I stopped reading that site. It just hurt too much. And, it completely discounted that I could be experiencing what I saw in my child. That really made me mad.

So...do what I did. Stop listening to those (no matter how well meaning) telling you it isn't enough. That you have secret wishes to wean. Or, whatever other nonsense that shoots down the nursing you accomplished for your child.

[Carolyn]

@Emily, I'm perhaps not a great one to offer help because I obviously still feel bad about this whole issue, but I have three thoughts for you.

1. As long as your baby is getting the nutrition she needs, from breast milk, from formula, whatever, she is going to grow up strong and smart and healthy. The way you hold her and talk to her and sing to her and love her is going to be so much more important than the way she was fed for the first few months of her life. This is not to knock breastfeeding in any way AT ALL, but especially at first, when it seems like feeding is all we do, it's sometimes hard to remember all the other things that go into making a happy, healthy child that we can ALL provide, regardless of our milk supply.

2. This thought is one that was passed on by a lovely social worker I saw to help me work through my sadness about not breastfeeding. She said, on the scale of bad parenting things you could do, how bad is this (i.e., not breastfeeding), keeping in mind that it isn't even by choice?

3. You ARE breastfeeding. It's hard to feel like you're "really" doing it when it's not enough to fully feed the baby, but give your milk some credit. It's just as good as anyone else's, even if there isn't a lot of it. It's benefiting your baby a lot! Keep it up as long as you want to, and as long as your baby will let you.

Take care, and watch the debilitating sadness. Make sure if this issue is completely dominating your life and affecting your ability to enjoy your baby, you get some help.

[Kate]

Kirsten,

Thank you so much for asking this question. The rational part of me says you have done a wonderful job nursing your baby for so long. Every mom/baby pair has a different time that is the "right time" to wean.

The irrational part of me understands, my baby stopped nursing at exactly 14 months. When we began nursing, I thought we would do it for as long as we could-whether it was 2 weeks or 2 years. But, when he stopped, I felt like a failure and a bit rejected.

So, I understand, but you are doing a great job! My son and I have found new ways over the past two months to bond...we have had lots of fun cuddling, reading, shape sorting and swimming. It gets better

[Susannah]

@ Paola,
the best book I know on hour to get finicky toddlers to eat is called "Child of Mine" by Ellyn Satter.

Her basic thesis is that you cannot get toddlers to eat. Any attempts to do so will backfire horrendously. She believes this even about small and vulnerable children. She has a lot of great advice on how to facilitate healthy eating in toddlers, which she is careful to point out is not the same as getting them to eat. And she reminds the reader that some kids are just going to be small, and most kids don't need to eat nearly as much as we think they do.

I think it would be worth a read for you. She is a wise woman.

Also, why are solids better than breast milk according to your ped? Were you wanting to wean or do you think you need to?

[Julie]

@Emily, I don't know all the details, but could it be that you are overproducing and not underproducing? I had overactive letdown (though 11 days might be a little bit early for that) and Alex would do exactly that. Try to nurse, then pull off and cry hysterically because he was so hungry. Just couldn't eat b/c the milk was too much too fast. Pumping is not an accurate indicator of what your baby is eating. Your body responds *much* differently to a pump than to a baby. So don't think that because you are only pumping an ounce or so in a half hour, you are only making that much for baby.

Whatever your situation, keep talking to lactation consultants. Pay someone who works as an LC privately if you have to, to get the help you need. 11 days is not very much time at all, so try to hang in there if it's important to you....but don't beat yourself up over supplementing with formula. It's such an emotional time....the most important thing is that you are feeding your baby. And you are.....maybe not in the way you envisioned (and really welcome to the world of parenting where NOTHING turns out the way you imagined it would!!!!!), but you are finding ways to nourish your baby and that is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.

Hang in there, find some more resources, go to a LLL meeting. Not all LC's through pediatrician's offices are as "with it" as we might think they are, or should be, being associated with a doctor's office.

I don't really know much about underproducing....but is it normal to give a mom Reglan and Fenugreek when baby is only 11 days old? It takes quite a while for milk supplies to regulate and become regular. It seems to me it might be jumping the gun a bit. Does anyone know more about this for Emily? Cause I sure don't. 11 days seems awfully early to me.

Big hugs Emily....I know there are people here who know more about this than I do. If people don't seem to be coming back this late in the day to comment, try emailing Moxie directly. She has good advice on bfing, and can either post for you exclusively one day, or will email you back privately. Also check out the sidebar on learning curves for breastfeeding, and why it's so hard. IMO, it is one of *the* most stressful things about being a new mom and no one really tells you how hard it could be.

[Pascha]

Kirsten, I totally feel your pain. First, don't let anyone you talk to tell you what is natural or unnatural. Second, you have been able to nurse your baby for over a year--far more than a lot of women can. Third, as Moxie said, we can't control what our babies do. My daughter weaned herself at only 4 1/2 months. I wanted to nurse for a year and a half, but she would have none of it. I tried pumping, but like you, just didn't produce for the pump like I did for my daughter.

I cried and cried over it, trying to get her to nurse, and she would arch her back, screaming, pushing it away. No matter how long I tried, she would always be stubborn and refuse it, screaming until I gave her a bottle.

Don't let anyone tell you it's unnatural. You have done everything you could for your child, but sometimes they have different plans than we do. :)

[Maria Wood]

@ Paola, you know your child and your doctor and I don't, but my gut is to quietly ignore your doctor and trust your child when it comes to solids/breastmilk and appetite. It sounds as if you have a lean kid on your hands, and as she has been consistently at 3% on the weight charts, she is gaining steadily – it's the trajectory that you want to pay attention to, more than the actual weight. As you know (and your doc admits), toddlers are not big eaters, and as long as you're offering a varied and healthy diet (and in the absence of outstanding medical issues), she will regulate her intake well.

It strikes me as counterintuitive to cut down on nursing if you're worried about her intake – every time she nurses she's getting a magic bullet of high nutrition calories and antibodies designed exactly for her that she'll lose if you deny her the breast. Solid food is inferior to breastmilk – don't get caught up in measuring her intake too much.

Hope I don't sound too strident here, and I'll reiterate my disclaimer that I don't know your child and I'm not 'on the ground' in your circumstances, so take it all with as much salt as necessary…

[Maria Wood]

@ Paola, you know your child and your doctor and I don't, but my gut is to quietly ignore your doctor and trust your child when it comes to solids/breastmilk and appetite. It sounds as if you have a lean kid on your hands, and as she has been consistently at 3% on the weight charts, she is gaining steadily – it's the trajectory that you want to pay attention to, more than the actual weight. As you know (and your doc admits), toddlers are not big eaters, and as long as you're offering a varied and healthy diet (and in the absence of outstanding medical issues), she will regulate her intake well.

It strikes me as counterintuitive to cut down on nursing if you're worried about her intake – every time she nurses she's getting a magic bullet of high nutrition calories and antibodies designed exactly for her that she'll lose if you deny her the breast. Solid food is inferior to breastmilk – don't get caught up in measuring her intake too much.

Hope I don't sound too strident here, and I'll reiterate my disclaimer that I don't know your child and I'm not 'on the ground' in your circumstances, so take it all with as much salt as necessary…

[attiton]

At 10 months, Rabbit just lost interest in breastfeeding--all feeding, actually. Maybe it was a strike, maybe she was just doing other things. However...

I can tell you one thing, when I realized that she was done and I was done all at the same time, it was actually one of the most freeing moments of this whole, difficult first year. Breastfeeding was DONE! We were moving on to the next stage! Woo-hoo!

I'm sorry, Kirsten, that this same moment has been so hard for you. But, as you have learned here...you are the BEST mother for your child. Push on through if that makes you happy, or don't.

We don't _expect_ anything of you. We just believe in you.

[kirsten]

Again, you guys have been lovely and sensitive and you also smell very nice, did you change your shampoo? I am still soaking up all of the great vibes and ideas. Most importantly, I am going to listen to my baby and do whatever it is that she needs from our relationship. I will still grieve this part of our life if this is indeed the end, but I will do it knowing that I am not alone.

Thank you for sharing and feel free to send additional thoughts to: kird9758 at gmail dot com

[paola]

@susannah, maria wood,hedra

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. My daughter has always been on the 3rd for weight and 25-50th for height and so too have my brother's kids, so her size is most probably due to her genetic makeup. I do think cutting down on her nursings would be counter-productive too and my ped is very modern in her approach and said that it could be something to consider only if both she (my dd) and I wanted to, but it's not something I am interested in doing yet and it doesn't look like my dd wants to do it either. She is still very much into the whole nursing thing. Thanks once again and I will definitely order the book you recommended Sussannah and Hedra

[Another Erin]

@Paola, if you're still looking at this thread - my 19 m.o. is also at the bottom of the growth charts and also subsists solely on cereal and pixie dust. But her light appetite seems entirely unrelated to her breastfeeding patterns. She only nurses once a day, first thing in the morning, which is also when she eats the most food. I cut back her nursing sessions because she's an incorrigible twiddler and I could.not.take.it anymore, and cutting back has had zero effect on how much and when she eats.

[paola]

@Another Erin

thanks for confirming what I though might be the case

[hedra]

@Emily, I'm also going to vote for overactive/forceful letdown, oversupply, and another LC.

Lemme tell you my SIL's story. With her first, her baby was pretty much starving - it SEEMED like she had milk (though she couldn't pump for beans), but ... well, maybe not. Because baby screamed at the breast, pulled away, fussed a LOT, and didn't grow well. In fact, grew so poorly that the 2-week visit started with the ped's face going white when she saw my niece, followed by her saying that if the girl didn't drink from a bottle, she was being admitted to the hospital. There was no effort to check in on the breastfeeding, it was 'too late'. (ARGH. but, well, scared, first time parents, panic, and okay, rationality - they could NOT cope with trying more at that point. Daughter is now almost 11, robust, and a bit overweight, but that's likely more to do with family and personal issues around eating and stress than the breastfeeding.)

Skip forward to baby 2. SAME signs - frequant scanty poop, pretty much dissapeared into the diaper. Quite wet diapers, but zero growth in 2 weeks. And in 3 weeks. And in 4 weeks. NO weight gain in that time. Fussing at the breast, 'fighting' the nursing a bit, generally not joyful baby (mellow but not joyful). Meanwhile, LC 1 said 'latch is fine, everything's good, keep trying', LC #2 said, 'hmm, minor latch issue, try this, and then just keep trying'. And then LC #3 said, 'HOLY COW woman do you have the most impressive oversupply! You could feed triplets! Overactive letdown, check! And oh, he's a tongue-sucker, you'll have to retrain his mouth, nipple shields will do the trick, then we'll wean him off those once he doesn't get his tongue in his own way anymore. Oh, and he also has Milk/Soy Protien Intolerance, cut out all dairy for a few months, then try again later on that.'

Third LC was the charm. The other two missed ALL those issues entirely. If you really want to breastfeed, hire one that comes well recommended. Ask a local midwifery practice who they recommend, or try LLL or Nursing Mothers, Inc. (I have found that NMI is a bit more positive about working moms, BTW). There IS an answer there, if you want to pursue it. The answer might still be 'supplementing' but it might be 'supplementing toward a goal of not doing so anymore'. The answer might be nipple shields, or block feeds (all feeds on one side for a period of time, usually 3-4 hour blocks, THEN the other side, so they get more hindmilk and your body cues to stop the oversupply).

The only way to tell how much the baby is getting, BTW, is to weight the baby before and after feeds. Pumping is just NOT the way to go. I could only pump usually 1/4 to 1/2 OUNCE at a time, even with the oversupply, until I was back at work. THEN, I could pump an ounce a minute, seriously. 10 ounces in 10 minutes flat. BOOMING supply, sucky pumping if also nursing - I don't know if I just couldn't let down for the pump if baby was nearby or what.

Don't give up yet. Especially since I know you want your body to prove itself just bloody ONCE, given the conditions you started parenthood with. If you lost any serious amount of blood, it can take 10 or more days for milk to come in fully, but it can also come in hard and strong without you knowing it (and I am not a leaker, so it isn't always obvious that I have an oversupply - the real cues were that my babies were miserable, pulled off the breast, cried often (from gas) and seemed to be demanding to nurse NON-freaking-STOP (because nursing causes peristalsis - gastric movement - which clears the discomfort from the gas from too much foremilk, which feels better, but meanwhile they're filling up with more foremilk, which causes gas, which causes pain, which makes them want to nurse, which... roundy roundy, poor things!), AND they had thinner stool than usual, not the 'good handful' of fluffy, whipped-cream-with-seeds stuff that should have been coming out.

Anyway, for your sanity and sense of pride in your body and yourself, given the entire picture, I'd say it would be worth paying for 2-3 different lactation consultants before deciding that the answer cannot be found this time, for this child, for this experience. It might not even exist - there will probably be answers some day for women who have PCOS-reduced-supply, or other issues. But not today. Giving it the good fight until you are certain that the answer for you is to stop fighting may help you process your choices as regrets, later. And as I said, regret is a clean emotion.

Very best of luck. 11 days of fighting it out is an act of courage already. At 11 days, my SIL was asking me for permission to quit - she'd failed the first time, she was failing again, it was okay, her daughter was fine... but her DH (my bro), and I both knew there was something more to discover here, and I commiserated with her pain and struggle, but ... well, neither of us told her we thought she was ready to give up - she just *wanted* to be ready to give up. And then there was the answer (answers, really), and she had so much milk even six months later that she offered to supply some for my twins if I ran short (private donation). And the boy who didn't gain any weight at all the first four weeks of his life? He's now off-the-charts above average, lean like his sister was at the same age. Still mellow, too.

[Laura]

My son seems to be starting this self-weaning as well, and I also know how sad it can be for this special time to end. My boy is 11.5 months and he still nurses with some gusto first thing in the morning and at bedtime, but he could take it or leave it during the day. My supply is also dwindling because of this. It seems he's figured out he can drink from his sippy cup and keep playing during the day instead. I can sneak some feeds in if I nurse him right after his naps while he's still waking up - I imagine you've already tried that. I am headed back to work after my year mat leave (feel very lucky to be in Canada), so I need to wean him off the day time feeds anyway. My husband is taking his 37 weeks parental leave (again, YAY CANADA) so I know he also is hoping our boy isn't looking for the boobs all day! :)
Sorry to not have any more novel suggestions, but congratulations at making it this far and doing such a great job.

[eep]

@Emily, I didn't come back to the comments yesterday because I had some problems with the page loading. In case you come back, let me just say that I ache for you. Oh, so much. I hope Hedra and the others are right and that it is a case of overactive letdown since there are solutions for that. I found Moxie through a post on hypoplastic breasts and breastfeeding with PCOS, so you might want to look through the archives in your hours of free time.

Whatever happens, just be kind to yourself. It is so hard, unspeakably hard. But one way or the other you and your baby will get through it, you will figure out how to nourish your child, and the two of you will develop a bond and formula will not make her less healthy or happy. My concern for many weeks and months was that I did not bond with my son as I should have. I really did torture myself with that, and perhaps it took me longer to bond because I was so sure that I couldn't bond without nursing him. That was foolish of me. I see now that he loves me because I care for him the best I can. Feel your sadness and frustration, but don't let it own you. I will be thinking of you and wishing you and your daughter the best.

[eep]

@Carolyn, Wasn't that SNS feeder the worst? I know some women have success with them, but I thought it was a device created by the devil to torture me. I needed my husband to help me use it, we never got very good at it, and after about 10 minutes my son was screaming and I was crying. I still have nightmares about that thing, really and truly I do.