Q&A: 4.5 year-old children are bananas

So grateful for the women who signed up for the What's Next Workshop right away. It feels good knowing I'm offering something useful! There are still plenty of spots for the rest of you, so sign up and/or pass the info on to friends. Someone asked if it was going to be painful, since there are some things she'd rather not think about. My answer is that it might hurt a little, but not so much, since we're going through it step by step and together over plenty of time. And it's always better to know, you know?

Now for the same question from two different people. Heather writes:

"My DS (4y3m) seems to have put his brain in a drawer and I want to know when it will come back.  The world is a total mystery to him, he has never seen socks before, juice boxes are beyond comprehension, flushing the toilet is poppycock!

Someone please tell me when he'll find his brain again!!!"

Hahahahahaha. It's funny 'cause it's true. Then Erica wrote:

"Seriously. He’s gone insane. He used to be a mostly pleasant little boy, and he still is, when he’s not being horrible. If I didn’t know better, I’d swear he was PMSing something fierce. The smallest things make him lose it. Like last week my neighbor stopped by to borrow my cupcake carrier, and he just lost it---tears, screaming, just couldn’t calm down. And this led to everything else just not being right, some screaming, and finally me hauling him up to his room to calm down (during which he hit me). There are some mornings he wakes up and it’s just all tears and whining and nothing is right. But other mornings he wakes up and he’s funny, and cheerful, and cooperative. His personality is really coming out now—he’s funny and creative and active. There haven’t been any changes in his schedule or ours, so I just can’t figure this out. Some of my friends are saying similar things are going on with their kids. Any advice on age 4.5?  I’ll take anything."

Also funny; also true. Before I reveal that both these children are normal, can we look at the tone of these emails and compare them to similar emails about children at the 18-month, 2.5-year, and 3.5 year stage? Parents of 18-month-olds are bewildered and hurt; parents of 2.5-year-olds are gobsmacked and weary; parents of 3.5-year-olds are irate. By 4.5, though, you're just ready to say WTF??.

Anyway, these children are totally normal. Excruciatingly, annoyingly, why-don't-moms-take-uppers-anymore-like-they-did-in-that-Rolling-Stones-song-ly normal. Remember our SBFs Ames and Ilg: Yes, once again it all goes back to disequilibrium.

The Ames and Ilg magic theory (which they based on years of observing kids at the Gessell Institute) is that kids* swing back and forth approximately every six months from equilibirum, when they're fluid and learning new physical and emotional and mental skils lefft and right, and disequilibrium, when they start stuttering (mentally and physically) and are awkward and ill-tempered. For many children, the equilibirum phases tend to happen around the year mark, and the disequilibrium phases tend to happen around the half year mark.

So your kids can't really help it. (File this away for when they're teenagers. I keep telling myself that.)

They're not doing it on purpose. And there isn't much you can do except wait for them to swing back toward equilibrium. I do feel like a lot of kids go through one last hurrah of being babies at age 4 3/4 in which they're clingy and vicious and particularly difficult, and that they tend to release to move into big-kid-ness right after they turn 5. So it's all just time.

In the meantime, since they can't help it, and you can't help it, if you can focus on maintaining your emotional connection with them, so that you stay close, that's going to do the best in the long run. They are going to act up. Protect your own personal boundaries--no physical attacks, no hurtful things said, etc. But as far as keeping on top of them about other rules, well, they may or may not even register it at this point because they're all disconnected. So focus on relationship aspects (boundaries and closeness) and try not to be hurt by the other stuff, and know that all kids go through stages like this and yet most of us come out of them and turn into fantastic people. So how you react at this stage isn't going to make or break your kid.

Courage. Seriously. This stage is hard.

Readers? Comisseration?

 

 

* Adults too, maybe? I know we tend to have bad phases every seven years. But maybe we're on a six-month cycle, too.

Comments

[el-e-e]

Totally agree w/Moxie - both of mine were/are crazycakes at 4.5. My son (now 8) definitely evened out right at 5 -- started reading to himself, doing other things himself, with little direction and no whining -- and I am patiently awaiting the day my daughter finds her equilibrium again!! Yeesh.

[MJ]

Oh, man, I identify with this SO MUCH. My daughter turned 4 in early October and suddenly she doesn't remember how to do things she's been doing on her own for MONTHS! Years, in some cases!

"Put your socks on."
"I need heeeeeeeeeelp!"
"Throw your garbage in the trash can."
"Where is the trash can?"
"Use your spoon, please."
*dumps food out of spoon by holding it upside down like she's never seen a damn spoon before*

I swear, sometimes it feels like she's being dumb on purpose! I try to be patient, but being a stay-at-home mom to a 4.2 year old feels like being trapped in the house with a whiny jackal. "Don't put that in your mouth!" has been replaced by "I know you know how to do that," as the thing I say the most.

[Heather]

Moxie I love you more than my luggage.

Thanks for posting it, because his brain is still in a drawer and I'd be happy to put mine in one too. This is NUTS.

Thanks again.

[GoddessBabe312]

I want one for 6.5-7

[Christine]

Totally. My usually outgoing and friendly son went through a period of crippling shyness at 4.5. It was very strange - I think he was just super-aware of himself and felt that people were watching and judging everything he did. He spent one Christmas party trying to hide his shoes because he was embarrased by them, but wouldn't take them off either, even though plenty of kids were running round in socks.

Thankfully he did come out of it a couple of months before his birthday. And now he's an angry, defiant, parent-ignoring 6.5-year-old and I'm hoping this will be over soon too.

[Melissa]

I believe I've blocked out 4.5...because mine are now 5.5, and I swear they have become dumb overnight. They have their moments, but then they will act like they've never heard of these rules before - like THROWING AWAY CANDY WRAPPERS, the battle since Halloween, despite multiple nights of NO candy due to this very transgression. Seriously, their 18-month-old brother does a better job remembering the routine. WTH?

[Sara]

THANK YOU. I have been struggling more than ever with my 4.5 year old. The whining, the meltdowns, the helplessness about things he definitely knows how to do. Ugh. I've been getting super frustrated with it because he is old enough to know better. But also, he can't necessarily help it, and I need to take a chill.

[snickollet]

@Christine: I, too, have an angry, defiant, parent-ignorning 6.5 year old. What happened to my sweet boy?

I haven't been hit by the half-year blues at ever half year, but I'm making up for lost time with this 6.5 year old b.s. So good to get this reminder that this, too, will pass.

[Kim]

Moxie are you a fly on my wall? You made me cry with relief that somebody else is/has gone through this. My 4.5 year old is currently doing all this craziness and more and at first I seriously started to worry he had a chemical imbalance or something. THANK YOU for shedding light on tough times that many are hesitant to talk about!

[Laura Lou]

Oh, 4.5 is bad, bad, bad. My oldest is 5 1/2 and I could. not. stand. him last year. His preschool teacher (who's been teaching for 25 yrs) explained that both boys and girls get their first burst of testosterone at that age. So it really is a little like PMS in the sense that their hormones go crazy, making their brains wonky and their behavior impossible. Knowing that helped a little, but like all of these stages you just had to grit your teeth and get through it. Like Moxie said, I saw a vast improvement right around 5.

[Becca]

I agree with Kim... This couldn't have come at a more perfect time. These past few days with my 4.5 year old daughter have been INSANE. What is more funny, is that i have a 2.5 year old too, and that recent article helped tremendously as well. So, thank you!!!!

[Mindy]

I think what's so hard about 4 to me is just that sometimes she's so rational, and other times she's crazy cakes. It feels more frustrating than when she was 2 (although when she was 3.5 it was really difficult as well).

[Susan]

My boy just turned 5 and I'm still waiting for the equilibrium to hit. Instead, his behavior at school (full day preschool) is worsening. It's his first year in an institutional setting and he is pushing, hitting, poking, disobeying, all manner of behavior we have never seen before. I feel like someone stole my sweet boy.

[Laura]

oh man. With Dd1, 4 thru 5 was utter suck. But, honestly? After the 2.5 stage hit, I never felt like we returned to equilibrium for more than a couple weeks at a time. She's creeping up on 6.5 now, and it's still not what I would call fun or easy. However, I have suspicions of SPD and/or other issues complicating our situation. So maybe it's different for more typical kids.

That said, the more typical Dd2 just hit 2.5 and wow. Totally different kind of energy from her, and she pulls different shenanigans, but man can she be a pill!

The hardest thing for me as a mother is to not give up hope on my kids ever being consistently enjoyable to be with. So much of the time it is SO frustrating, and SO hard. there are these moments of bliss, but they are fleeting, and the daily grind is more about surviving without having a tantrum of my own. I would like that to change.

[Schwa de Vivre]

I haven't noticed a marked dip at the half-year; more like constant, usually low-level challenging behavior. I sure do appreciate this post though, Moxie, because 4 is really getting on my nerves. We have a chore board that was gifted to us, which we sometimes use, and I filled in the blanks with "Listen the first time" and "indoor voice," but that's only because they already had one for "stop whining." My kid started talking at 9 months -- his first word was "bumblebee" and his second word was "What are you doing?" so I KNOW he can talk, but we seem nevertheless to be stuck in a game where he tries to will me to understand what he mumbles and whines with half or more of the letters changed, and then refuses to speak up or speak clearly, and gets bent out of shape when I have no idea what he's on about.

And someone please tell me that he'll get out of the car without me having to force the issue some day, and then actually step aside without my having to physically move him myself so I don't whack his head closing the door. Please. And one day he'll carry something -- a lunchbox, a juice box, a jacket -- anything the five steps from the car to the house so I'm not balancing a million things while trying to get him out of the car and not whack him in the head, because one of these days I'd like to unlock the front door without dropping something.

In all seriousness, does anyone else have a 4 with serious anxiety about memory? My kid doesn't want to forget what he was just doing, what his train track arrangement was, what cool face he just made -- none of it can be forgotten. Is that normal, or peculiar to him?

[Kate]

I'm with others--6.5 is kicking my ass. Horrible to sister, disrespectful to me. Bananaville.
Found out today that mine has been screwing around in English class (extra curricular--not primary language of school--but we take it seriously)...WTF?!

[Erin]

Yes, my brand new 4.5 y.o. is completely bananas, and it corresponded almost perfectly with him turning his half year. Melt-down-o-rama about everything, total inability to deal with frustration. The downside of having kids 24 months apart is that they hit their disequilibrium at the same time! Did I mention I have a 2.5 y.o. too? There is a LOT of screaming in my house right now.

[Erica]

Ohmygoodness, THANK YOU! I'm the Erica in the OP, and hearing from all of you is so very helpful. I'd forgotten to mention the helplessness--"but I want yoooooouuuu toooo doooo it, Mooommmmmmnyyyyhy..." ARGH! And I'm so glad that someone mentioned the increased shyness in social situations. My husband and I were both shy, so we had just assumed that he was getting that way, too---I'm very glad to hear that it's part of this phase.

And I'm not going to even start on the growth spurt that he's been on. The jeans that I bought in August that were about 2" too long are now just long enough. Sigh.....

As always, this blog is awesome and I thank all of you.

[JudyB]

I've been on the verge of writing Moxie about this very thing. Our 4.5 little man is just plain mean and angry, a lot! One particularly bad week I might attribute to some underlying physical issue, but not the rest. I buried myself in books about spirited kids and found I really needed to re-center myself and my husband when it came to our discipline style and house rules. I also started really commenting on all the good things he does. It's VERY hard for me to stay neutral when he's pushing buttons, but I'm trying. I found that he was very "fragile" at 3.5, so I'm totally on board with the disequilibrium theory.

I find myself coming back to your 2010 post about why 4 year olds suck so much. Seriously, that saved my ass.

[Rudyinparis]

@Schwa de Vivre--sounds normal to me (even understandable, unlike a lot of behaviors at that age.) Eldest had little tics like that too. An abhorrence of left turns. Highly stylized rituals at story-time (always had to clear our throats in a very certain way at one particular part of the story, etc.) Psychologically (I'm no expert, though) I'd say your son's preoccupation with "not forgetting" seems to display a good awareness of how time passes, that time DOES pass. Also, he sounds kind of like a small Virginia Woolf, which is pretty cool.

[Kate]

@Mindy, get excited for 6.5 then. Half amazing, sweet and helpful; half total asshole devil spawn.

[Hamano]

@Schwa de Vivre -- Whoa, that game of rapidly growing communication frustration makes me insane! JUST like what you said: "we seem nevertheless to be stuck in a game where he tries to will me to understand what he mumbles...refuses to speak up or speak clearly, and gets bent out of shape when I have no idea what he's on about."

I still haven't figured out how not to get wrapped up in this way-too-frequent scenario. She's angry when I can't magically figure out what in the world she's talking about and angry if I ignore her. Much of the time we're stuck in the car together with this playing out.

Somehow comforting to know others are playing out this exact scene (and the getting out of the car stuff, and...) and surviving beyond this point. Whew!

[Lynn]

@ Schwa de Vivre- My son had the same anxiety about not forgetting at 4.5 too. It got to the point where I would have to take a picture with my phone of his train track arrangement or his lego creation or even the face he was making or the trick he was doing at the playground. He couldn't transition to any other activity without the photo. Here's the crazy part, he very rarely even looked at the photos stored on my phone. He just needed to know that whatever he was thinking about at that moment wasn't gone. There were times that he would get a cookie and not want to eat it because then it would be gone forever. Pointing out that he could have another cookie just like it later was not helpful. I'm pretty sure this had passed by age 5.

[Bonnie]

OMG. My 4 year old is a joy and my 19 month old is a nightmare. Nothing makes her happy. I asked her to put the trash in the bin today (usually something she loves to do) and she threw a 30 minute tantrum. I keep reminding myself "disequilibrium, disequilibrium", like it's my new mantra.

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[caramama]

While the symptoms ring true for my kids, the timing doesn't ever correspond exactly. My kids go through the equilibrium/disequilibrium phases, but I get to enjoy them every quarter!

I put this out there to help others who may not realize a pattern of quarterly phases. My husband used to say that we couldn't call them regressions if it was ongoing, but it only seemed that way for many years cause the quarterly equilibrium phases seemed so short. But after 5+ years of analysis and two kids, I am sure it's a quarterly thing.

So 4.5 was a little difficult, while 4.75 was nice. BUT 5-5.25? Living hell!!!! At home, at school, on vacations. You name it. And nowf that she is 5.5? She has been lovely. So yes to everything Moxie and others have said, but as always your mileage may vary.

@Schwa de Vivre: OMG! I had forgotten until you said that, but one of the key issues with my girl during her disequilibrium last Spring was that she was "afraid" she would forget things. Bedtimes were especially... lengthy, since she was worried she would forget all the things she wanted to tell me. I told her we'd make a list and write it down so she could tell me later. It only kind of worked. That was when I worked on the concept of "letting it go" which we continue to work on for some things,,

[meghan]

Thanks Caramama - I was reading this and thinking...my 4.25 year old is going through this. He is normally a delightful, imaginative little boy, but lately he refuses to play (even with his Hot Wheels!), and he told DH that he wanted to KILL HIM when he couldn't have pudding. I'm not even sure that he knew what that meant, but it sure shocked the crap out of both of us. Talk about ridiculous mood swings. And lots of comments like, "I've never seen this before!" when looking at books, toys, our house, etc. Refusing to undress himself, crying because DH wasn't home to give DD a kiss goodnight...oy.

[Laura]

Just wanted to come back to tell everyone that last night, between my 2.5 year old and 6 year old, I was awoken about 7 times between midnight and 6am.

Talk about disequilibrium!

[Meredith]

My 5.5 (ok, 6 next month)-yr. old has had a mental breakdown about putting on his socks for the past many months. Socks have never before been a problem. Now, socks are the devil. We seriously leave him in his room screaming about his socks for about 20 minutes every morning. And no, they're not the only issue, just the most consistent one. I have erased 4.5 from my brain, as with every other previous age, most especially 0-24 months in his case. I also have a 20-month old son and he just stares at his brother in these moments: 'like seriously, what is wrong with you?' Nutballs indeed. I've been all over the Ames and Ilg books for years but damn those socks!

[Toria]

Oh thank goodness for all of you.

We've also had, among other similar things, the refusal to put on his own socks and shoes for months, despite him doing them happily for over a year before that. It has been driving me crazy and starting every day with a battle of wills (often degenerating into a screaming match *blush*) before we've even left the house. "But I caaan't. I need YOU to do it!". Aaaargh!

He's always been cautious about trying new things and ataining confidence in what he can do, so LOSING the confidence/ability that took so long to master had really thrown me for a loop. Thank you so much all of you for showing me he's normal, and he's not just deliberately trying to make my head explode.

He's just turned 5 so I hope this means he will be coming out of it & into newfound (or rediscovered) ability & self-reliance any time now, or at least in time for starting big school in 2 1/2 months (which seems so soon, and yet some days soo far away ;) ).

[wealhtheow]

For the helplessness? Two words, baby: Visual. Schedule. I use these for my kid CONSTANTLY. At 4.5 he went through this awful, hideous, no-good terrible stage of "forgetting" how to put on his clothes. It was so much easier to say "Check your chart" and then give him a consequence for running out of time. And more importantly, it puts the responsibility squarely back onto your child's shoulders. Also, "first ... then..." First you put your clothes on. Then you can play until it's time to leave for school.

Even for neurotypical kids, the world of special ed has ALL sorts of techniques that just work magic.

[Schwa de Vivre]

Well, I feel so much better.

@Lynn, I'm hoping 4's grandparents get him a camera for the holidays, for this reason. I kind of love mine too much to let him use it on a regular basis. I finally got him a journal, which seems to help. He draws maps of the tracks that aren't really accurate . . . and doesn't look at anything he wrote/had us write in the journal once it's done, so yes: it's not really about needing to get the information back, it's about not wanting it gone. I think of it as being so excited about *right now* that you don't want to risk two minutes from now because it might not be as cool -- though it invariably is. That argument does not convince, however.

A couple of things that I find work (when I remember to do them and the stars align, right?): for the incomprehensible language game, play along. Make whatever you way similarly incomprehensible, until you've got some real word salad going on. Or sing the wibbly wobbly song that my son brought home from school: "Wibbly wobbly wee, an elephant sat on a tree. Wibbly wobbly weet wign, and elephant sat on a street sign." Etc.

More recently, we've been playing logic games. For instance: today they had a Thanksgiving party at school, but "None of my parents were there," according to 4. "So Miss Chantal gave me juice." I asked if she put it on a plate, and he proceeded to try to explain that. Then I asked if he ate the juice with a fork, and he proceeded to try to explain *that*: "You eat spaghetti with a fork."

"Oh, so you can only eat long skinny things with a fork?" And so on. Pretty much, just push the logic in funny places as long as they think it's funny.

I'm not sure these help the problems, but they're sort of like the "toys that are good for this age" section in Wonder Weeks.

@Rudyinparis: Virginia Woolf, huh? I didn't even mention that his mantra is "Will you remember that all of the days and all of the nights?" which always strikes me as terribly literary.

[AmyinMotown]

Erica, I am glad you returned here because I would like to ask that you return my son, as clearly we are parenting the SAME CHILD. This is throwing me for a loop, too, because my daughter was pure molten evil at 3.5 but reasonably OK at 4.5 and a joy to behold at 5 (Seriously. I still miss 5, although I have high hopes for 8 because she's been pretty great lately, a few weeks before her birthday). It's even harder because he was the nicest, sweetest, most mellow little baby and toddler ever to walk the earth and now he is all temper and defiance. Once again, the Ask Moxie community makes me feel like maybe I am not a horrible parent and I didn't break my kid because we're all going through it.

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"It's even harder because he was the nicest, sweetest, most mellow little baby and toddler ever to walk the earth and now he is all temper and defiance."

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