The new carseat guidelines

Can we talk about the new carseat guidelines in the US? The AAP just recommended keeping kids rear-facing until age 2. Before this, it was common for people to turn their kids front-facing at age 1, but the new guideline says rear-facing until age 2 is far safer.

Here's a link to the whole story.

Before we start talking about it, let's just go under the asuumption that OF COURSE all of us want to do what's safest for our kids.

Those of you in countries in which you've been keeping kids rear-facing for longer already, please weigh in on how the experience has worked for you.

My older son was always very big for his age (99th %ile for both height and weight). I'm not sure that when he was 2 there was a rear-facing careseat that he would physically have fit into. What would we have done?

I'm also dreading having to keep my younger one in a booster for years and years until he hits the 85 pound weight limit, which could be a long time for his lanky self.

Just logistically, this is going to be tough for some parents with kids who are at the extremes of size.

What is your car seat/booster seat experience?

 

Comments

[Nancy]

You know, EVERYBODY is safer riding rear facing in a vehicle. I totally get why it's better physically, but sometimes good living has to trump 100% safety. Developmentally, it's better for the child to be able to see and interact with his environment. For parental sanity, it's better to be able to have a child who is not complaining from being so restrained. Motion sickness is going to be a big issue too- what suffering that inflicts on a kid! It's cruel! I hope people use their heads on this one. Rear-facing until it becomes uncomfortable and impractical for the child. Sometimes you have to live life and not be 100% safe.

[Kara]

I am for rear-facing for as long as it is reasonable, and I think being reasonable includes whether you can drive without the toddler being a safety-impacting distraction. If turning the seat around sooner than later helps you be a more focused driver, that also makes sense to me.

We made it 18 months rear-facing with our average-sized son. At 18 months, we did a cross-country move, and the only way I could think to keep him (our son) from being miserable the entire time was to turn the seat around so we could pass him toys, snacks etc.

[kara]

I'm very surprised at the volume of opposition to the change in recommendations (at this site and others). Am I alone in seeing both a contradiction and a correlation to the common practice of CIO in the US? On one hand, its the "cultural norm" to let your child cry himself to sleep, with pressure from half the neighborhood to do so or you'll ruin your child. At the same time, the safety of a crying child in the car should be compromised so that he will stop crying/complaining. Perhaps what is common here isn't the best case scenario for the child, but for the parents. . .

(I have a rear-facing 30 month old who screams his head off when in the car seat; he hates the restraints, not the position, and I've compromised by making fewer car trips rather than change how he sits in the car itself).

[Kathy B]

Data point - my child is 30 years old, so we did not have the regulations that are in place today.

In my case, I had to turn her 'front-facing' at about 6 months. She was prone to motion sickness, and riding backwards made it worse. So, thinking about it logically, I considered the consequences of both:

Back facing: Consequence = car-sick, with the potential of aspirating and choking; probability: 99+%

Front facing: Consequence = more danger of injury in an accident.
Probability: <5% (I would hope!)

My conclusion, go with the odds and put her facing front!

[Robin]

No time to read all comments now, just weighing in to say: my almost-4-yr old is still rear facing. If I cave every time my kid screams about doing something vastly safer/healthier, then I figure I'm not much of a parent. Both kids are used to it now. A little annoyance is worth it in the face of the stats on serious injury. Just my 2 little cents.

[Carla Hinkle]

I recently turned my 3rd child at around 14 months, for a variety of reasons, and have no regrets.

But what really irks me is the recommendations for older kids. Boosters until 85 lbs and 4-9? Really? So we're going to be keeping junior high school kids in booster seats? That seems like overkill, to me.

Also -- I see all over the place people giving vague references that "in Europe kids are rear-facing until ___ years old," where that number varies. But I have yet to see any specific rules or guidelines from particular European countries. I'd be curious.

[Julie]

My aunt has ten kids. I'm pretty sure she brought the youngest one (now 40) home in a cardboard box on the floor of her backseat. Comparatively speaking, I think we're doing a great job for our kids - whether we turn them around when they're 18 months or 2.5 years.

[lisa]

data point: My 19mo is still rear-facing in a Britax Marathon and weighs about 25 lbs. We plan to keep her rear facing up to the seat's specs, which is 35 lbs and something with height (which I'll check on when we're closer). She has never known any other way so she just does it.

I think that ultimately we're in a transition time. Those who didn't know about the change in guideline and who have already turned their kids around cannot see themselves reversing this. Or their convertible seats are not made to rear-face to a higher weight. In a few years, I forsee more seats coming out that do support the higher weight RF, phaseout of those that don't, and more awareness, so this will be much less of an issue.

[Cloud]

@Carla Hinkle, I think Sweden keeps kids rear facing until they are 4.

[Elizabeth]

@kara "On one hand, its the "cultural norm" to let your child cry himself to sleep, with pressure from half the neighborhood to do so or you'll ruin your child. At the same time, the safety of a crying child in the car should be compromised so that he will stop crying/complaining. Perhaps what is common here isn't the best case scenario for the child, but for the parents. . ."

Or perhaps being distracted by screaming in my own house is less dangerous than being distracted by screaming while also trying to drive. (My children's phases of screaming in the car were pretty short, anyway, so it didn't affect my decisions on when to turn them around, but I have a lot of sympathy for the dilemma of those who were affected.)

[Lumberjack]

My heart goes out to all you parents with a car seat hater of a babe.

We decided to leave the car seat rear facing.

I read this quote in an NPR story:

"I think we've become immune to this. I think it happens so frequently and with such regularity that we've lost focus on how important it is. And I think we've become so reliant on cars to get us from Point A to Point B that we've sort of accepted it as the price of doing business," Ben Hoffman, professor of pediatrics, University of New Mexico School of Medicine.

Jack's legs are a bit scrunched and he does cry a bit. Music makes it better- sometimes. I dunno. That quote spoke to me pretty hard.

Good discussion... I'm learning a lot.

[CB]

Whenever this conversation comes up, there are people who claim that their children are in some of the higher percentiles and don't fit into the rear facing seats at 1, 1.5 and 2 years of age. There are seats that rear face until 40 or 45 pounds and have a harness height of 16 3/4" while rear facing. I can't imagine many 12 or 18 month olds who fulfill these measurements. If you want to turn our child around for one reason or another, just say it. Don't blame the seats.

I see many people also saying that their children are x number of pounds. The weight of a child has far less to do with their readiness to be forward facing than the strength of their muscles and their ability to absorb the impact a crash would cause.

It seems like people are going to do whatever they want regardless of the recommendations. I just wish they would own their decisions rather than using excuses.

[CG]

@kara, also CIO is a means to an end, when presumably the kid will stop crying and go to sleep happily. Most people (including us) have resorted to it after trying other things that were gentler but didn't work (for our particular kid).

If the kid screams every time she's put in her car seat, that may not be a hump to get over, but an ongoing problem. My kid is not a car-screamer, so I don't really know. It just raises my hackles when people insinuate that you're putting your kid at risk by letting them cry themselves to sleep for three nights.

Back to the issue at hand,we were going to switch our 13-month-old to front facing, but it's been too damn cold to stand outside and re-install the seats. Now I'm going to wait.

And for whoever said she lives in a cold place and has her kids in warm jackets, amen. Every single time I smash down my kids' down jackets to get the belt fastened I think about how they're not supposed to be wearing those puffy coats. But we have an unheated, unattached garage and many mornings it's so cold that my fingers go numb inside my mittens on the steering wheel. They need to wear warm coats. If we're going on a longer trip where the car will have time to get warm, and we're going on the freeway so we'll be traveling at higher speed, I put them in lightweight fleeces. That's how the risk/convenience factors balance out for me.

Like many other decisions, it comes down to what your tolerance is for PERCEIVED level of risk. I just don't think we're likely to be involved in a high speed crash going the mile to day care. I could be wrong, but that's my calculation.

[Elizabeth]

@CB Or maybe people just don't want to spend hundreds of additional dollars on a car seat that's only going to get a few months of use? Most of those higher-weight rear facing seats are expensive, as well as being huge and a huge pain in the butt.

[Fun Mama]

Anyone care to weigh in on my earlier question? Do you think we are going to look back on turning a child around at 1 year the same way we view sleeping on their stomachs? Or not wearing seatbelts at all? Or is this just going to be seen as the same catagory as over-reacting/helicopter parenting?

[Moxie]

Wait wait wait wait wait. It's OK for a kid to cross their legs in a rear-facing car seat??

I had no idea. I thought that would be a compromised safety position.

Is it just me that didn't know this, because I don't own a car and so there was no way I could get someone from the police to help me install it?

Also, what about people who cannot afford to spend $300 on a car seat?? We're also not allowed to buy or borrow used ones, either, according to the guidelines. It's another way to set people up to fail, I think.

[Bird]

Ugh, as if I didn't have carseat troubles enough.

DS is my little banana baby - tall and skinny. He outgrew (by height) his baby bucket at 6 months, so we installed the convertible RF (obviously). However, I drive a Ford Focus 2 door hatchback, and the convertible partially obstructed my view. I bought a Combi Cocorro which is just about the smallest convertible I could find, the downside being it will be outgrown sooner than a more conventional one. I'll keep him RF in the Combi as long as I can, but if he outgrows it before 2 he's going to have to go FF in our other convertible. I get that he will be less likely to be injured in an accident if he is RF but I will be MORE likely to HAVE an accident if he's RF in a seat that blocks my view. (The same carseat FF doesn't cause the obstruction.)

I know ultimately the AAP is trying to keep kids safe but maybe they'd be better off to stick to important stuff like this... I already blew them off in regards to cosleeping and my homebirth, it's hard not to tune them out now even though on this they have a valid point.

[Bird]

Actually I have no idea if the AAP has an official position on homebirth, maybe that's ACOG? I have a nonsleeping 8 month old and am on day 11 of the sinus infection from hell... tired... I just hope some small part of that made sense.

[Kate]

@Moxie, if the seat is involved in a crash you're not supposed to use it anymore; and they have "expiration dates" because the plastic begins to degrade.
But I passed my Britax Roundabout (used for abt 4 yrs) to the sister of a friend when my younger one got too tall for it--she should be able to get 2 yrs out of it.

How is it that people remember exactly when they turned their kids around? I vaguely remember that my daughter was close-to-but-under 2 (but people had been asking us for months if we had) and with my son I had done a lot more reading of the Car Seat Lady and left him until he was at least 2, maybe a few months after? (Probably in the summer when we went to visit my parents--he would have been 2y3m--reinstalling RF was a big pain compared to FF.)

I agree with whoever said this was like the AAP's recommendation for nursing until age 2. There is the ideal, the ultra in safety, the rainbow-and-stars poop; then there are the bajillion things that can potentially get in the way and trip you up, depending on your kid and your situation. Which isn't to say that the information should be publicized to the maximum--and apparently the AAP policy statements and the NYT have better readership than the Car Seat Lady (why?? joking. sort of)--so that people who may turn the seat around at age 1 because it's "just what you do" (with a big old glass of cow's milk, etc, etc) pause and really think about their decision.

[Kate]

"Which isn't to say that the information should be publicized to the maximum"

SHOULDN'T. Jeepers. My only excuse is that it's 10pm here and I've been up since 5am.

[Chris]

My sister weighed about 85 lbs. when she graduated high school! My daughter is similarly built and at age 7.5 just passed the 50lb mark and is not quite 4 feet tall. She was rear facing until she hit 20lbs. (about 20 mos. I believe). She will probably be in a booster for a lot longer than most of her peers.

[Shandra]

I'm sort of surprised at the opposition - not that there aren't reasons to not follow the guidelines for individuals, but I don't see the guidelines as unreasonable where rear-facing is concerned. It's all about the size of the head vs. the body.

My son rode rear-facing until he was almost 2 (he was and is a lightweight, but 65th percentile for height most of the time). He actually found it more comfortable for his legs (crossed, pushing the seat, over to one side) than the way they dangle forward-facing. (He keeps crossing them even now and he's 5.)

And yes Moxie, it's safe - worst-case scenario is a broken leg, I guess, but as someone already said the way the forces work in most collisions it's actually more likely FF.

He does get carsick, but the first time he did he was forward facing. So I couldn't win anyway. We'll see how #2 goes.

#1 is just shy of 40 lbs now, at 5 yrs old, so he's still in a FF carseat. We could probably switch to a booster but we're not in a rush. I actually feel nervous about the booster. I don't think it's half as much protection - no extra padding and no 5 pt harness.

For the boosters, in Ontario I believe it's age 8/80 lbs now. I don't think kids get teased much - maybe if parents keep them in at 9 or 10. But before the law changed, they did.

I highly recommend the Car Seat Lady: http://www.thecarseatlady.com/

[Nancy]

I'm glad to hear of the new recommendations.

My son was RF until he was almost 3 in our tiny Toyota Matrix. That's when DD was born and we couldn't fit two RF car seats in the back and have enough room for the driver. My daughter's now 2, and she'll be left RF'ing until she outgrows the height of the seat (Britax Roundabout), so probably until she's at least 3 as well.

By the way, they both hate sitting in the car (and we actually just did a road trip, 5 hrs each way, where DD was crying for most of the trip when she wasn't sleeping). But whenever I entertain the thought of turning DD around (mostly to placate the uninformed nagging of my mother or hubby), I have flashbacks of those youtube vids of crash test toddlers in the FF versus RF positions... no thanks, I'll put up with the crying!!

[Nancy K]

oh and Moxie btw... yes, it's ok to criss-cross legs RF'ing.

I wonder if you have any readers from Sweden that will chime in... I think the recommendation there is RF'ing until 4 yrs old... and Swedes in general are pretty tall people (at least the ones I know)!

[SarcastiCarrie]

As for how we remember when we turned the kids around: we take an annual vacation and I turned the kids around for that the year after they were big enough so that I could read them books, pass them snacks, etc.

Before that, on long trips, I used to sit in the back with them sometimes, and I could nurse a rear-facing infant while I was buckled in to the center position (The Sag, she is good for something).

[Cathy]

It is interesting.

In 2003, the baby grew out of her baby-carrier car seat at about 4-5 months, so she went into a rear-facing convertible car seat. We kept her rear facing until the next time we had to take the car seat out anyway for something (cleaning out the car maybe?) She got switched around probably around 14 months.

In 2008, we had a baby carrier car seat that was supposed to last until 95th percentile kids were 1 year old. So we had 2 bases and 1 car seat for 6 or 7 months, but it was too heavy to bring back and forth into the house/daycare anymore with the baby in it. So we used it in just one car and got a convertible seat for the other. Eventually I replaced the baby carrier with a convertible seat for my car and handed down the baby carrier to my SIL/nephew (who found herself expecting as soon as she got rid of her baby stuff). Our 2008 baby was smaller than our 2003 baby at the same age, so she didn't make the 1 year/20lb threshhold anyway. So, she stayed rear facing until 15 months or so.

My 8 year old has been ready to ditch her booster seat since age 5 or so. However, we've been letting the pediatrician be the bad guy on this, and so she's asking about it at every well-visit.

As for petite women and grandmas who seem like they might qualify for a booster - it's true they might. There were commercials for Saturn, I think, a long time ago about the need for safety devices in cars to work (equally) well for 5'2 women and 6'4 men.

[Helen]

Data point from the UK: I am the only person I know who still has their 15-month-old rear facing. He is still in his baby bucket seat. When I went into a shop to ask about the next stage carseats I was told they were all forward facing. Several Mums I know have been using these seats since ~9 months.

We have been feeling like we should buy a new car seat since Christmas, but I just hadn't had any time to properly research the options. DS legs are getting a bit scrunched (glad to know that's ok!), but his head is still contained. The main problem is that his shoulders are getting too wide for the baby seat.

Anyway, this week I have actually being doing research, talking to friends, reading reviews, agonising over which of two (HIGHLY recommended; forward-facing) seats to buy. Just today I finally said to DH "Right, that's it. We are getting this one and I am not reading any more about the subject." Curse you, internet!!!

[ann]

I agree about our society being completely obsessed w/ all things SAFETY. As a previous poster said, if we really want to keep our kids safe on the road, we would never get into a car at all. Or we would drive no faster than 25 mph. Or we would drive monster trucks w/ roll cages.

At some point, you have to make the call about how far you're going to go. I think there should be some room for convenience and common sense in the debate too. If kids are puking backwards, not worth it. If you live in a cold weather climate, removing kids' coats to get in the car seats and putting them back on outside the car, is insane, especially w/ multiple kids. Etc. etc. etc.

[akeeyu]

I was thrown out of a moving car after an accident when I was in elementary school.

It sucked.

I still have a disfiguring facial scar. I still have chronic physical repercussions. These are things that changed my personality when I was growing up and have impacted my adult life (not in positive ways).

My parents were following the car seat and safety laws at the time. They were following them to the letter, which wasn't difficult because at the time, there weren't any laws regarding child restraints in cars. Hi, I'm old.

My parents didn't know any better.

I do. You do. We all do.

I would have rather vomited on myself, kissed my own knees constantly, screamed bloody murder, been effing miserable, you name it, every time I'd been in a car rather than go through glass and hit the ground.

Most of the comments I see on posts and articles like this are pretty flip and fall along the lines of "Well, I/my parents did X, and we were all fine!"

You don't hear a lot of stories like mine because most people who break safety glass with their skull and then land head first on the ground don't survive to tell the story.

I was lucky.

In an accident, I don't want to have to find out whether my kids are lucky or unlucky. I don't want to have to do what my mother did, which was search frantically in the dark for a bleeding, unconscious child.

I want to do everything I can to keep them safe in the car.

Car seat laws are minimum standards, and they're always behind the current research and best recommendations.

[Slim]

My oldest screamed every single time he was put in a carseat for the first trip home. I became immune.

The ability to function in the presence of pissed-off screaming is one of my parenting talents.

[Slim]

Thing one: *from* the first trip home

B: http://babyproducts.about.com/od/carseats/ig/Extended-Rear-Facing-Car-Seat/

Finally, I feel even less eloquent that usual when I follow akeeyu, like some yappy dweeb trying to show that I'm as smart as she is by tossing in some minor point in support of her side.

[julianne]

I am not a safety nut in most things, but my very tall 3.5yo is still rear-facing. She's never known anything different. And her little brother will stay rear-facing just as long, or so I intend.

She climbs in herself, and can rest her feet against the seat-back in front of her or cross her legs. This is in a Toyota Camry, not an SUV. Anyway, point being that it is possible and not uncomfortable.

While I agree that our culture is overly risk-averse, and I am mostly a free-range type of parent, the difference in crash outcomes was compelling to me. (Plus it was easy--since we had to have a car seat anyway, I just made sure we got one that had high rear-facing limits.)

If I had a child prone to car-sickness I can see making a different decision, but this still works for us.

[Betsy]

My son is 21 months old and still going strong rear facing. His car seat (which we have used since birth) will hold him rear facing until 40lbs if we so desire. It can be turned front facing once the child is 22lbs and 34 inches.

Since he just hit 34 inches and 26lbs, we are considering turning him around after his second birthday. Maybe. It will really depend on how much larger he gets between now and then.

I want to turn him around because it would make my life easier, but not at the expense of his. You know? If he's well past the car seat guidelines for height and weight and well past age two, we'll consider it then.

[Lumberjack]

@Akeeyu, I am so sorry you were hurt in a car accident as a child. Your post will help others reading Ask Moxie.
"I don't want to find out if my kid was lucky or unlucky," you wrote. That sentence will stay with me for a long time.

[Jenny]

I have small small twin girls 2-5% height/weight at 4.5. I put them in lap boosters in my husbands car. Top rated and small. The girls love them and fit into them well. I just couldn't justify spending another 200-300 each for seats that don't fit into my husbands car. PLus, they are in the car 2x a week.

My car, they are in convertibles still but will be growing out of them in about 6 months (for height). I will buy the frontier booster that I can use for the next 5 years as it goes from 5 point harness to lap belt booster.

My thing is, so yeah, do I keep my kids in a booster til they drive? I mean they really, honestly, might not hit that weight til then...

[Jenn, car seat safety tech.]

Watch this video that shows the dramatic difference between being rear-facing and forward-facing in a crash. It's pretty clear to me that the child is MUCH safer rear-facing. My son is over two years old and will stay rear-facing in his seat until he outgrows it by height or weight (and I happily bought a 40 lbs rear-facing seat to keep him rf longer after he passed the 30 lb weight limit of his other convertible seat around 18 months).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKIeExpDLDA&feature=player_embedded

[Jenn, car seat safety tech.]

Oh, and google "Joel's Journey" if you'd like to see a real-life example of the damage forward-facing too early can do. The child survived but his life has been seriously altered (and for those of you in the STates, I can't even begin to imagine the hospital bills for the care he needed).

[Claire - Matching Pegs]

Wow.
This whole post blew my mind.

I live in Melbourne, Australia, and I had never heard that other countries legislate to keep kids reward facing for so long. I am sure it is tricky and can image all the carsickness it causes. I thought that what we do here was pretty safe - I thought we had standards in line with the rest of the world.

Here in Australia, the rules are that babies are reward facing until 6 months.

Between 6 months and 4 years they can be EITHER rearward or forward facing in a car seat.

Between 4 and 7 years they must be in a forward facing car seat or booster.

I think most babies here are turned forward by the time they turn 1.
My 8 and 10 year old (who are almost exactly the same weight/height) just recently came out of their boosters. My 5.5 year old is in highest rated booster available. She will be in it to about 10 years I imagine, like her older sister.

Children must be 12 years old to sit in the front, because of the danger inherent to airbags if you are too short. It used to be 8 years before Airbags became the norm.

I think there is merit to the argument that there has to be some balance between what is absolutely the safest, and what is the most practical.

I don't know where this leaves us here, I always had confidence in the relevant authorities regarding car seats, but I had never realised how different it was elsewhere.

[Celeste]

I'd really like to see their data on why they think this is a valid recommendation. I too had a tall child who could not have fit crunched up. I really wonder if cars need to be redesigned in order to make this really feasible--as in make passenger seats rear-facing by default.

I also think it would be a nightmare trying to keep the sun out of kids' eyes with the longer rear-facing time. Younger kids might reliably sleep more in the car or tolerate a receiving blanket over the carseat, but not an older child. You can buy a sun shield for side windows but you really can't shade the rear window effectively. We had some flimsy thing we tried and it impaired driver visibility at dawn and dusk. Nobody needs to keep moving a rear sun shield back and forth. Many states now disallow those window shading laminates. I'm sure this sounds like a petty concern, but travel with screaming kids is not fun...and nobody wants to put their child through that anyway.

I'm glad I'm through with car seats, and I'm glad this is only a recommendation at this point and not the law.

Many states have a booster seat law that is 8 years or 80 lbs, whichever comes first. DD didn't want to stop using her booster at 80 lbs (though thin and small of butt) because it raised her up higher and made the seat belt more comfy. But then she grew and the seat didn't accomodate her hips anymore so she asked to be done with it. I think they should make boosters that accomodate kids over 80-85 lbs. I know that in some cases though, the kids might still use them if not for feeling like they're babyish. There has to be a good way to design them so they look like part of the car and not a baby chair. /end rant/

[Katherine]

This is something I'm super passionate about because I've found it troubling the US has so many safety regulations that do seem a bit crazy, but have been so lax on the car seats. I've known this for at least the 5 years I've had kids, and I'm sure it was out there before that, I actually find it surprising that it hasn't been more common knowledge.

The research has been there for a long time, and this should have come years sooner.

We have Radian car seats that go up to 80 pounds and to me it's just one of those things you deal with because it's safer. I wear a seat belt every day, and most days it wouldn't matter if I did or didn't because I haven't had an accident or needed to stop suddenly...but, it's the one time that you DO need it.

My in-laws traveled with a baby who slept on a mattress in the back of their car all the way from the mid-west to California 30 years ago. Nothing happened. But the truth is that it easily could have.

I know it's a pain and some kids hate it, but I think there are lots of ways to make the car more fun and compromising safety just doesn't seem to be worth it.

Sure, we can say we would be safer just to walk, or to drive slowly, and those are some things we can't do (driving 1000 miles at 20 mph, probably not), but keeping our kids in a seat longer should not be put in the category of things that are trade offs to safety. You are in the car anyway and putting them in a seat for longer is worth the inconvenience.

[Emily]

Has anyone re-flipped their child after some months of foward-facing to go rear-facing again? If so, how did that go? My son is 2.5 but nowhere near the 40lb rear-facing weight-limit for our Britax. Neither of my children are big fans of the car but riding facing forward did seem to help with the shrieking somewhat.

To answer a previous poster's question about will this be a non-issue like back sleeping for newborns...maybe? Cars are scary and dangerous and parents of course want their children to be as safe as possible, even if it is inconvenient. (babies sleep better on their stomachs, too, says the mother of one sadly stomach-preferring infant.) But on the other hand this reminds me a little of the helmets-for-sledding hysteria taking place on parenting message boards all winter. It's nice to hear other posters wondering if the tone of this argument is scoldy-scoldy American-style Safety overkill. You know, at least partially.

[Brooke]

Car accidents are the leading cause of death for kids over one. Putting your kids in the car is the most dangerous thing you do, and you probably do it every day. Riding in a car doesn't seem unsafe to us, but it is. If you are going to pick one thing to concerned with safety-wise, car safety is a smart one to pick.

Most kids should be in boosters until about puberty. Before puberty, a kids' hip bones are still malleable and can deform from the pressure of a seatbelt, allowing the belt to ride up onto the belly and crush the internal organs. It's called seatbelt syndrome. It's horrendous.

A $40 Costco Scenera will fit most kids rearfacing to two or so. You really, really don't need to spend that much money on a carseat.

My daughter stayed rearfacing until almost 3.5 in a Toyota Camry which is not a huge car. That was mostly for safety, and partly because she didn't lose her toys when she dropped them and she couldn't kick my seat.

[Nico]

I did a lot of research on this issue when my first was around one - I put a lot of trust in the car seat technicians who post on car-seat.org, and they were recommending RF for as long as possible long before this. What really convinced me was looking at some of the videos of RF vs. FF in crashes - you can find them on youtube http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=front+facing+rear+facing+crash&aq=f. And yes, if you are rear ended the opposite would happen, but looking at stats on crashes, forward crashes are more likely.

We kept my first RF until 24 months, because our second was born at that point and like others we couldn't fit two RF seats in the car and have my husband able to drive. Our second was RF until 26 months, when he hit the RF limit (Britax Boulevard, 33lbs). He's 98% height, 90% weight, and was pefectly comfortable RF and would happily have stayed that way had our seat accomodated it. I did not know at the time that there were seats going RF until more than that. Maybe if we have a third we'll get one of those.

[Annika]

We turned our son around just after his first birthday, because his convertible seat was awful rear-facing (he outgrew the bucket at 6 months). It was installed correctly and was almost entirely upright and swung from side to side even with the LATCH properly installed, because it was just too big for our car. I was terrified for him to ride in it! We decided to turn it around, with the consideration that he's held his head up AT BIRTH so his neck muscles must be pretty developed by one. Sure enough, the seat was totally safe and secure once we turned it around. As an added bonus, he loved being able to see and stretch out--but that's not why we turned him.

Our daughter outgrew the bucket seat at 15 months. She's a little pixie compared to her brother. We just installed her convertible seat, rear-facing, and she loves it. She's comfy and secure and she can gaze lovingly at her brother. (And we got a smaller seat this time so it FITS. Man do I feel dumb about that first seat.)

[the milliner]

Haven't had time to read the comments yet, but here's been our experience:

-DS stayed rear facing until at least 18 months (even closer to 2 if I rememeber correctly)
-He's in the 50th % for height and 10th % for weight, so tall and skinny. That being said, I've basically had back issues since he was born (probably more from the crib, but the carseat situation doesn't help either).
-He was in the back-facing, bucket detachable seat at least until 15 mos, maybe 18? It's foggy. Can't remember. (kept him there as long as I could).
-At about 15-18 mos we changed him to the Britax seat, but kept it rear facing until about 2 when it was just getting too awkward to put him in rear facing (and his legs were too long)

For me, the bigger deal was trying to put DS, who was not walking yet, but heavy, in his rear facing Britax in a tiny car (Mini), in the winter. THAT killed my back. But as soon as we switched to a bigger (4 door) car, life got much easier...for this anyhow.

So I am OK with the new guideline, but I empathize with people that have kids on the bigger end of the spectrum.

[Tina]

S is still rear-facing at almost 18 months, for a number of reasons. For one, she's small--in the lower 10% for weight. For another, we don't have a car and rely on taxis and friends, so a bucket seat (35-pounder) is a MUST for me. The base is in my parents' car (which we're in the most), and I carry her in the bucket any other time.

I don't know what I'll do when she has to forward-face. I can't imagine lugging a big booster up the stairs to the ped's while chasing a curious little girl around.

And other taxi-takers out there? And what do you do to strap in accurately and quickly when every taxi is so different?? (Sorry for the aside!)

[the milliner]

@Erin "I wonder what the danger level is of listening to your child scream bloody murder as a distractor." Heh. So true. And everything you wrote in response to @Charisse. ITA. (Hope those are the same Erins!)

@Shanna "Drives me nuts every time I hear a parent talk about how s/he can't be bothered to put coats on/off each time they go in & out of the car, or they are worried about the kids being cold" The thing is, it's not always that simple. And just because a parent doesn't put coats on/off each time in the car, it isn't because they can't be bothered. Where we are, it can be -40C with the windchill in the winter AND we have laws that you're not allowed to let your car idle for more than 3 minutes. So, um, people without a garage (like us and many others in our city) are stuck between a rock and hard place. I can't really put DS in the car without a coat. So I'm stuck with the only option I have, which is to buy DS down filled coats (so at least they have the ability to compress) and to pull that seatbelt tight like crazy so that there's no slack whatsoever. I just can't believe that considering the amount of people for whom this must be an issue that some car seat company hasn't come up with a solution

@Charisse, "I think what rankles parents is when something new comes out that does have a real safety impact, but any objections about the also real hassles are dismissed because it's about Safety and that should Always be your First Concern As A Parent." Well, I think you totally hit the underlying issue here. How is it that all this stuff always gets turned back on the parents?

@Scantee, "Parents are trying to the best they can. We live in Minnesota and don't have an attached garage and there is no way in hell I am taking off the coats of a one and three year old in the middle of winter each time we get in and out of the car. I know that is what is safest, it's a compromise I take full responsibility for." Right there with ya.

[Alexicographer]

Really, I'm flummoxed that more people (including many here) aren't embracing these recommendations. And honestly I consider myself kind of slack in this regard; I'm pretty sure DS was FF by 2 or if not then, soon after. But while I do think we sometimes over-obsess about all-things-safety (you may take my earlier replies to the disaster preparedness post as evidence) I think @Brooke is exactly right on this one: If we're going to focus on safety anywhere, cars (for most of us) are the place to do it.

@Akeeyu: thank you for writing about your experience. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

Honestly, if I can do nothing else as a parent I will be reasonably content if I can teach my kid always to wear a seatbelt, and that when it comes to automobiles, safety is more important than comfort. And, yes, part of that is obsessing (a bit) about this as him mom while he is little.

The comments about screaming kids amuse me a bit. Mine went through a dreadful whinging-in-the-car phase at 3.5, when he'd been FF for a good bit. Would that it had been so easy as just to turn him around.

[ARC]

I am actually really glad these recommendations are official now because it settles a long-standing argument I've had with my husband.

I think he *is* one of those "milestone" parents because he's been agitating to turn BabyT around for months, even though she's perfectly happy to be rear-facing. I have no idea why he's so interested in it, except that he thinks she's squished (and she's not), but another friend's husband had the same view.

So I win for now, and we can keep her rear-facing. We managed to fit a Britax Roundabout 50 in our tiny Audi A3, and still have room for a (short to average) person in the front seat. So I'm cool with this until she's 2. And then we'll see how it goes.

[ARC]

Oh, and can I just say how jealous I am of those of you who got a full year (or more!) out of your baby bucket?? We had to switch BabyT to the rear-facing convertible at 6 months because of her chub. So no more blissful carseat sleeping :(

@akeeyu, thanks, and sorry.