When your groove just comes back on its own

I have said this in real life to four people this week, so it's making me think it's something I need to say here: You turn normal again when your youngest one is 5.

I have no idea why 5 years old is the magical age. I did not believe it myself when a former boss told me that "everything gets OK again" when your youngest one turns 5. At the time, my younger one (who is veeeeery intense--not highly-spirited but some different variety of human anyway) was 2, and I could not imagine a time when he would not be sucking a ton of energy from me.

But I noticed a huge switch in the two months after he turned 5. I've talked about it with his dad, who noticed the same thing. It relaly is lke having two people now instead of children who need to have everything done for them.

In conversation with other parents of kids who've just turned 5 it seems to hold true for most of them. It's an energy shift that happens, similar to that energy shift you probably noticed when your child went from a baby to a toddler, only this one seems to be less work somehow.

And the end result is that your child is far more competent and masterful, and you notice more energy and emotional space.

Has anyone else noticed this and want to confirm it? Is there anyone who is in the Red Zone with little little kids who need to talk about that lack of emotional energy?

I think it's often easy to focus on how physically tired we are (even when our kids are techincally sleeping through the night) that we forget about the toll the constant on-dutiness takes on us.

Thoughts?

Comments

[Eva]

It's funny you write this now. Because I have two almost 4-year olds, and I'm currently teaching intro human development which I haven't taught since before they were born. At the front of the textbook there is a "landmark table." Under 3-4 years for emotional development it says "negativism peaks... little explicit awareness of pride and shame." Then under 5-6 it says "negativism declines. Child recognizes pride and shame in others, but not in self." It made me think about how I parent (expecting pride/shame from my kids), and also, made me hopeful for 5!

[Suzanne]

THANK YOU!! Although it's a (relatively) long ways away (I have 4 yr old and a 1 yr old), it's nice to know there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I figured life must get easier someday but at times it's hard to believe. The constant neediness, tantrums, toddlers not being able to communicate what they really want/need, night-waking, etc. Of course, this could be a trick...is this like when you have a newborn and people say, "just make it to 6 weeks, it gets so much easier" and then you reach the 6 week mark and they say "oh, 3-4 months it really gets easier" and so on and so on :)

[Rach]

I wonder if this is different depending on the gender of the kids. My youngest (a girl) is almost 5, but if anything, she has gotten more emotionally intense the past few months. So, I'm hopeful, but trying to be realistic - would love to hear from others who are parenting girls if 5 is the significant milestone that it is for boys.

[Sarah S]

Wow, this is exciting to hear! My son is just about to turn 3, and I already feel so much more human than I did a year ago. Knowing that there's another bump like this ahead makes me happy!

[enu]

Nah, this did not happen to me. No major change in normalcy when the Little One turned 5. One's own individual experiences can change what might be a general trend in that sense. Life was pretty much a trainwreck (in terms of normalcy for me - due to dealings with the outside world wrt the kids, not due to the kids, for the most part) all the way through my kids' childhoods. And then, just as they were about leaving the nest, my own life took a dramatic turn for the suck.

So what's normal, anyway?

Not saying one can't adore one's kids, and have happiness along the way, it's just "normal" which eluded me all those years.
I've got a new groove now, and it is good.

[Shandra]

I have felt this way about my son since he was about 4.5, so I pretty much agree. But with another one on the way I'm kind of braced to start over. I am hoping this time I can make more time to "fill my own well" but with two...ahahahaha.

[ksb]

Yes, this ABSOLUTELY happened for me. My younger daughter is now 5-almost-6, and in the past year I've taken up running, started doing a lot more writing, and I just generally feel like I'm having my own personal renaissance. It's like I can finally turn some of my energy back on myself and do a little self-nurturing.

Plus, my two daughters, who are 2 yrs. 3 mos. apart, are finally get along so well. Seriously, I almost put the older one in therapy because she seemed like she might do some serious physical damage to her baby sister. I was just saying to my mother that I wish the 4-years-ago me could see how the sibling relationship is today, because I was so stressed out and tormented, and the change has been unbelievable.

Mamas, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Or maybe it's just a break in the tunnel before adolescence hits?

[Moxie]

Rach, "almost 5" is VASTLY different from 5+ a month or two. Vastly. Vastly vastly vastly. I can't even express how clingy and needy the almost-5s I've known have been and then how they came out of it right after 5. It's freakish.

[Claudia]

At the risk of jinxing myself, my daughter at 4 and a few months is already much more independent and easy than before, and she's been pretty easy since the late 2s. I have been away overnight with nary a moment of sadness on her part, and other outings during "family time" which she has been fine with. She has had a period of extreme sensitivity, but it seems to be past (remission?), so crossing fingers.

I like that there's a milestone in our children's age that relates to our getting our groove back!

[amanda]

This is reassuring. I have one at 30 months now, and am seriously thinking he may wind up being an only because I cannot comprehend how I would manage with more than one. I looove him more than anything, compared to others in our orbit of friends and family he is "easy", but sometimes I cannot stand to BE around him. Is that completely awful??

[Thy]

This is spot on Moxie! My oldest one is five and I must say I really like five! Just a few months ago I would not have believed a word you wrote since the very same, then almost five-year-old, was totally draining all my energy. It is such a shift in energy and I am not quite sure why. We are more on the same team trying to solve problems than me on one side trying to stop him. Though it is not as obvious from the outside as the energy shift at three when they finally break out of the 24/7 suicide watch that begins when mobility kicks in. Luckily I have an almost two-year-old to keep me grounded...

[Nell]

I completely agree ... five just feels so much more manageable. He's really a little person now. But now I _really_ question whether we could have a second and do it all over again ...

[eep]

@amanda, if it's awful, then we are all awful. It is so hard with someone demanding so much of you all of the time. My three year old sings "Farmer in the Dell," but replaces the words with "Mommy." So it's "Mommy mommy mommy, mommy mommy mommy, mommy mommy mommy mommy, mommy mommy mommy." There are days that I want to just peel my skin off and run away. Oh dear god, it can be awful.

But then he rubs his face on my arm and tells me I smell like strawberry pie. Yummy.

I hope the intensity wears off at some point. I feel like I live my life at 11, and sometimes I really would give just about anything for a sensory deprivation chamber.

[Camilla]

Thank you for the ray of hope!

Boy #1 is 3 1/2, late at toilet training, and we're just a week out from our last horrific poop accident. He was slow to talk, but now he's saying "don't say 'mmm', mommy, I don't like it!" and yet I just don't have it in me to hold up my end of a repetitive conversation about his matchbox cars.

Boy #2 is 11 months, screams every time I go to the bathroom, and doesn't sleep through the night. He's easier than his brother was in so many ways, but he seems to continuously wind himself up, if I pull away from him or try to make him cry it out.

I've been promising myself that when the little one turns five, I'll hire a live in nanny for the summer and hike the Appalachian trail, or something, ALONE.

[HMS]

Well, this at least gives me hope. My kids are 4 and 2 1/2 and I'm not even sure what having emotional energy means anymore. DS (2 1/2) is very loving and playful but is also VERY attached to me. DD (4) is like an emotional whirlwind all the time. This even gives me a little hope that things might be somewhat easier when SHE turns five even if I still have a couple of years to go with DS. I have to say that I've found 3 and 4 to be far, far more difficult than 2 was was/is with either of them.

[Rayne of Terror]

Not true for me as an introvert. My 5 3/4 son requires so much emotional energy. He sucks me dry. Him going to K this week has been like getting an anti-depressant prescription. The never ending jibber jabber about Scooby Doo and space ships drains me completely. I can hang with my 1 year old 24 hours a day no problem because he can't talk to me yet.

[seadragon]

At a work/life panel I attended at work, I asked one of the panelists whether it gets easier. At the time I was pregnant and had a 2 year old, and the panelist had a teenager. She said no!! And no one contradicted her!

I sat there quietly ruminating to myself that it must just be that they've forgotten how hard the newborn and toddler years are. At least that is my hope.

So by saying that it gets easier around 5, you have made me feel a lot better.

[lisa]

With my 4.5 yo daughter, I find my naps getting longer (while she watches tv), not because I'm sleeping, but because my eyes are closed and I don't want to get out of bed/couch, and I already take 2 anti depressants. Trying to find a running partner who can go after the break of dawn. Her dad helps so much, but being a mom is not a good fit for me.

[lisa]

I forgot the hopeful part: maybe it will be a better fit when she goes to kindergarten (5 YO)

[KatieV]

seadragon, that panelist with the teenager sounds out of touch, for sure.

My youngest is 21 months, and although I remember the exhaustion of the newborn months, the horrificness of the sleep deprivation is already beginning to fade.

Even as the memory fades, I want to remember the fact that it was *dang hard* and empathize with new moms, not make them depressed thinking it doesn't get easier.

[multimomma]

I thought 5 was awesome, mainly because it wasn't 4. In my book having a 4 is payback for misdeeds in a previous life. My last one just turned 4. It is gonna be a long year. And then of course, I will be sad because I won't have any littles left. You just can't win! : )

[Summertime]

Oh how I love five year olds. I used to work in Pre-K and they were so much fun.

My son is 2 1/2 and is super awesome but is also, you know, 2 1/2. I feel like I'm constantly trying to push past the latest stage and whatever form of exhaustion goes along with it all while reminding myself to enjoy him.

I just found out that I have a five day business trip coming up in about 6 weeks and I got so, so excited over the phone when the organizer called to tell me that I would have my own hotel room for four nights. FOUR NIGHTS. BY MYSELF. You'd think I'd never stayed in a hotel before but luckily he has kids so he understood and didn't think I was a total kook.

And-- I've had total babyitis for the last 6 months and I guess we're going to do it all over again! What the hell is wrong with us that we do this to ourselves over and over?!

[leah]

Our pediatrician said to me 'everyone warns you about the terrible two's but no one says a thing about the f@$kin fours...'. I loved that because I know she totally gets it (her oldest is a year older than mine). I was so relieved she understood I almost cried. I think that's what's so nice about blogging too, is what you might not feel comfortable saying out loud in your real life, you can totally benefit from sharing w/ others and knowing-#1: you're not alone, and #2: it will pass. We all love our kids so much, but that doesn't keep us from being driven crazy by them about 75% of the time!

[Emily]

I have waves of groove, even though my kids are 3 and 1. When my 1-year old was born, it was really rough. Then one day, as I was packing kids into the car, I realized, "This is OK. I've got this." Now, fast-forward a couple of months, and I feel stretched and overwhelmed again.

[Katy]

Wow - this post is very timely. I have a nearly 4.5 year old and a 15 month old and this week has to have been the nadir in my parenting experience. The 15 month is transitioning to full time day care (after a year at home with me) and I've gone back to work full time. He's still crying all day there, then nursing all evening and not sleeping, just screaming, all evening until I come to bed and nurse him all night long so he'll sleep. I'm so torn up with guilt over the transition but am going crazy with the insane neediness/not sleeping.

On top of that, my 4 yr old acts out every time I turn my back, often hitting his brother, still poops in his pants, and also won't sleep through the night. I've lost my temper, yanked arms, and yelled this week, something I've always managed to avoid up to now (usually by walking away when I'm frustrated).

Sorry for the rant - this post just made me realize how exhausted I am from working and trying to be "present" for both of them all evening and night. SO GLAD to hear that it might get easier when the oldest turns 5 (at least until he's a teenager!).

[Allison]

I needed to read this today, as I am very depressed and unhappy about my abilities as a mother.

I have three sons. My oldest is seven, my middlest is 3-going-on-4, and my baby is 16 months.

My middle son has always been the veeeeeerry intense on (I totally understand your description of a kid as not officially "highly spirited" but still a very, very intense human being. I think he has all the potential in the world, but in the meantime ... Christ almighty. I just don't know how to describe that kid.

My 16-month-old is a doll-baby who sleeps beautifully and has a very calm temperament. But he's still a toddler. So that means he gets clingy and cranky at times, and constantly endangers himself with the new-skills-no-judgment thing. And as I hop-skip to keep up with him, the other two are off fighting and turning the house upside-down and generally robbing me of my sanity. By the end of the day, my communication with the oldest two consists pretty much of me screaming at them for the hitting/kicking/dismantling.

There are times, recently, when I feel like I love them only in the abstract. Like, I'd be sad if something bad happened to them. In fact, when you talk about "emotional energy," most of mine goes toward *reminding myself* that I *do love* these children. But on a daily basis, I'm kind of wanting to be as far away from them as possible, and so this is where I get depressed because clearly I'm a suck-ass mother who is not doing A Good Job.

Well, anyway, I'm totally hijacking the comments. I guess I'm just trying to say that as a mom sorely in need of encouragement, you provided some today, and I thank you. I have to believe that things will Just Get Better.

[Jo-Ann]

My youngest turned 5 in July and I am waiting for this to happen. Holding my breath.

[J]

Reading the comments, there is so much unhappiness going on right now around the reader community! I also notice that all of my friends are cranky and (no joke) on every errand I have run this week, people in line are incredibly impatient. The season is changing - do we think that has anything to do with it? Just wondering why I am crabby, and everyone else pretty much seems crabby too!

Also, it seems like a lot of the "no, it's not easier" comments are actually coming from people whose OLDEST is 5, not youngest... I think maybe that may make part of the difference?

Hoping we all get happier, soon!

[J]

Ps, I know that moxie asked us to talk about our current lack of emotional energy (I say us as I have 2 very little ones)... Not a comment on anyone else's comment specifically... I was just thinking that I could rant for hours about how emotionally tired I am, and then wondered what is making me feel that way so very much right now! And why I am observing the same in others even outside of this comment stream...

[Mom in France]

You mean I might actually get something ELSE done, someday?

[mo]

My boys are 5 1/2. I LOVED 4. Still sad to see it gone.

That said, I get what Moxie is saying. I'm finally getting a life again - slowly, but I see it happening. I'm starting to have real adult conversations with friends when they come over, at the dinner table, etc. I think one of the big reasons is that the transition to my husband and I being our sons' WHOLE life (even though they have little friends and love our adult friends) to friends being so much more fun to be around than the parents and them being able to play together so much better that adults don't need to constantly be involved with their play. That means the adults (be it my husband and I or friends that have come over) can sit around and talk or do things while the kids play (obviously we are still keeping an eye on them).

Hang in there those with the under 5 kids - I think it does get better, especially in the sense that Moxie mentions where you can start to have a life again. It definitely doesn't mean there aren't plenty of disciplining challenges (I think age 5 is really hard to discipline) but it just means your personal self gets to start emerging again.

[anon for this]

Thanks for this. I needed a little pick-me-up, and even though my younger child won't turn 5 for 3 more years, it is nice to know that I won't feel this way forever.

I've also heard that for people whose children are spaced about 2 years (or less) apart, that 4 and 6 are when a big change occurs for the better. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I'm bracing myself for a really difficult weekend. I'm watching the child of a friend for the next two nights because she has to work all weekend, and my husband is working all weekend as well. In spite of the fact that they both have difficult and stressful jobs, I'm so insanely jealous that the two of them get to leave the children behind for 8-12 hours of the day. They can go to the bathroom alone, they don't need to teach little people how to handle arguments, they don't need to listen to whining (or at least not whining from people they are emotionally invested in), they can get a drink in peace, they are valued at work, they get encouragement from coworkers, etc. It's been a really tough few weeks around here.

[maria]

I'm with @enu on this one. My daughter is about to be 7 and my life still in no way resembles 'normal,' whatever that is. Being a single parent is definitely partly responsible, and my daughter's intensity/emotional immaturity is too. And I think my parenting style is as well.

I'm hoping normality returns before she graduates from high school!

[Jill]

FIVE?? I have to wait til he's FIVE? I was hoping when the little one turned TWO I'd be better.... I'm going to pretend it's two. If I have to think about 4+ more years before I'm awake again, I might just quit. :) (Not really, but man am I tired)

[Casey]

I am not quite sure how I feel about this. My younger child is 3 right now, and I am pregnant and due in a couple weeks. That means at a minimum I have 5 years and a couple weeks before I'm normal again! It's nice to have a goal, but, man, 5 years??!!?!?!?

[cherylc]

Jill, I think it gets progressively better. Three was a big turning point for my first, very intense child. Sure, she had the horrible, horrible, three year old tantrums, but she could amuse herself for long periods of time too. But five was a big transition. My husband said he was finally getting his life back. Then we had another one. Fortunately for us, he's a much easier kid.(Although I worry much more about peer pressure for him when he's older. There are pluses and minuses to all temperaments.)

[enu]

@seadragon and others - IME teen years were TOTALLY easier than baby/toddler years. No question, no contest. Well, so far, anyway, with < 8 months of last teenaged child ahead.

[meggiemoo]

Oldest turns 5 in January, and I can see glimpses of a shift, like a curtain blowing a bit in the wind and unveiling a beautiful beach scene.

Youngest is almost 18 months, and although in many ways SO much easier than her high-needs, highly sensitive brother, she's velcro toddler right now. She'd be perfectly happy to ride on my back all day and night like a proper little Amazonian baby monkey.

[Cloud]

A colleague at work said the same thing to me recently... she asked how old my baby is, and when I said that she's almost 11 months old, she said, "well, then things will start getting easier in about 4 years!"

I can already tell the difference in the demands on me from my 3 year old and my almost 11 month old. The 3 year old is far less demanding- and she is definitely the more intense of the two. So I'm actually sort of hoping things will get easier gradually. Maybe even so gradually that I won't really notice it happen- like the way a canker sore gets better really slowly, and then one day you just notice, "hey! Its gone!"

@Amanda- I definitely have times when I just want to run away. It is hard to have a little one who needs so MUCH of you. I think what you feel is normal, not awful.

[Anonymous this time]

@Allison--totally with you, sister friend.

@ksb--you're giving me hope.

Our younger is five next week, older is 7 a few weeks later. Older is still horrible to younger and I feel adrift in a house with kids I don't understand. (Well, one.)

As to Moxie's original posit: yes, I think 5 changes things for *most* kids. Alas, my older--the "spirited" one--not so much.

[Elaine]

Mine turned 2 in May and just today I noticed how much less of a helicopter mom I need to be since his birthday. In the past 2 months he explores while keeping me in sight, his climbing at the playground has gotten really good (my heart isn't constantly in my throat), and he can do the slides by himself. I am almost able to sit down and watch him play. Almost.

I look forward to every age with the understanding that some years the cons will take up more of my emotional energy than others. Good to know that five is a year to look forward to. But some of the things I've ready here make me a little nervous about what lies between here and there.

[Gillian]

Sorry, no time now to read comments but wanted to quickly add - yes, yes, yes!

My son turned 5 late Spring and we moved over the summer. I was trying to put my finger on why I feel so much more connected to new mommy-friends/aquaintances when their youngest/only is 5+ vs. other parents who have a 5 yr old and a younger child. There is almost, dare I say, a sense of resentment when I hang with parents whose children are 5+ vs those with youngers. It definitely seems to stem from lack of sleep and lack if emotional energy left over to make new friends. Hmmmm, I'm sounding judgy and I don't mean to at all. But there is something there.

There is also something very unique and interesting about being the parent of a planned only child who recently turned 5. Yes, there are still worries and power struggles and stuff (as in the little Kindergarten freakout on my part ...) but it is very different from pre-5. I have mental space, energy; it is a welcome growth.

[sudru]

2 years to go! I have noticed that my friends with older children seemed to have quite normal lives. I've been hoping that some day I too might return to the sanity that I once had.

[Jo]

I was just thinking this today! Although my youngest is 3.5, it is COMPLETELY different than even 6-8 months ago and continues to improve. I feel sane. Yes, there are times I'm still frazzled, but it's definitely the high point of the last 7 years of being pregnant, baby-ness, toddler-ness, then new baby-ness etc etc. The constant work simply WEARS YOU DOWN.

And you know what, in some ways I'm truly thankful for it because I SO appreciate the stage I'm in now.

[ML]

Hey Camilla! My son used to say something like that, too: "Don't say mmm-hmmm, Mummy!"

I too have been looking forward to 5 in some ways--my son is fairly verbal, so sometimes it's easy to believe that he's capable of older-kid reasoning and impulse-control. It's hard to remember he's only 3.5.

As for my daughter, I'll be glad when the night waking and intense Mummy-need abates, although I've been enjoying her chubby 13-mo self (so incapable of evil! My last baby!). I'm tired of being exhausted, but I now see a light at the end of the tunnel!

[Jill Pohl]

Yes! Life is good! The horrors, screaming and uncontrollable fits started to turn into "Mama, this is wrong because..." We took a vacation and drove from Atlanta to Niagara Falls with no electronics in our car. I was so wonderful that we are headed to Yellowstone next summer. At the pool I can let him go with friends to any part of the pool and I don't worry about him drowning. I send him to get the mail and he does. I'm *thinking* of letting him walk home from school without me. Yes, five was good. Five was the turning point.

[crescentgirl]

Thank you! I've been seriously wondering what was wrong with me that I need a nap constantly and am sick all the time and want to be a fun person for my kids but I snarl all the time ... negativism, pride shame ... so much to ponder.

[G's Mum]

I just want to say thank you, Moxie, for putting a positive spin on something about parenting. I have a 1 YO and am so tired of hearing the neighborhood mommies bitch about all the bad things - wah wah wah. It is draining to listen to all the time. There are hard things about having babies but there are good things too! Thanks for highlighting a positive angle.

[Lisa]

@meggiemoo: again, parallel lives. At 4.5, the curtain is giving me peeks of freedom, ease... even if it's just a mirage, it's giving me energy and hope now.

Case in point: not only is T. finally sleeping through the night (yes, it took four-plus years), using the potty successfully without reminders (ditto), weaned (ditto), but... pouring himself a bowl of cereal! Saying "Mommy, you look pretty today. I like that blue dress." (My God, I'm wearing a dress, which means I had time to shave my legs.) Offering to share a stick of gum! Waking up at 7 AM, not 5! And then reading! To himself! Unprompted!

It's a brand new effing day. (In this kind of mood I'd have another, but four more years of sleep deprivation would finish me off.)

And next week we go from homeschooling to school. 25 hours a week - ohmygod I can write and exercise and even shower daily. I am praying at the altar of easy transitions, mostly that I haven't jinxed everything by reveling here.

Luck and fortune to you all...

[Jill]

This post could not have come at a better time. Two daughters, one just over 2 and the youngest is 4 months. They suck the energy out of me EVERY DAY. It's refreshing to hear REAl moms say that "yes this sucks and it will get better." All I seem to hear is "Enjoy it, it's gone before you know it." I despise that kind of talk.
Being a mother is hard, thankless and no one ever really recongnizes how hard we work. Many nights of crying and wallowing this week, but as always Moxie knows how to make me feel a little better about being a mom and I remember that it is normal to feel this way.