Parenting in Public

A few weeks ago I was having an exchange with Elita at Blacktating about different perceptions of parents, specifically black parents vs. white parents, when people see us in public. She had a lot of interesting points to make about how white parents can "get away" with a wider set of parenting behaviors in public than black parents can.

That started me thinking about Parenting In Public for all of us. How many times have you felt forced/nudged/shamed/coerced into parenting in a way you don't usually because you were in a public situation? I know I have, and it still happens now that my kids are out of the toddler tantrum stage.

The PIP issue that used to bite me on the ass every single time I went to the playground when my kids were a certain age was sharing. As it's enforced in the United States for middle-class white kids, I loathe sharing. Basically, this is how it's supposed to go: My kid is playing happily with a toy and another kid walks over and wants to play with my child's toy, so I'm supposed to prompt (and force, if necessary) my 2-year-old to "share" by letting the other kid play with my child's toy. In adult terms, that would be similar to my sitting on a park bench canoodling with my boyfriend, and another woman walking up and my gladly saying "Go for it" and letting her make out with him until it was my "turn" again. Right*.

(First of all, I think it's confusing and downright cruel to a little kid to force them to hand over their own things like that (older kids can certainly understand the concept of taking turns, but they also understand not asking for turns from a total stranger, so the whole dynamic is different anyway because there's a reciprocal relationship established with anyone you're likely to be asked to share with). But also, since I'm raising my kids in the US, I feel it's vital that they understand the concept of private property, so that they don't infringe on other people's property, and part of that is encouraging them to value their own property.)

Anyway, I abhored feeling like I had to cave and let some stranger toddler "take a turn" with my kid's toy. So I'd just try to stay out of the situation by not bringing personal toys out into public, or making some lame excuse for not forcing my kid to she ("He's coming down with a cold" or "He just got that toy from his grandma").

But there are some situations you can't avoid, like a kid having a meltdown on the train. I know it's because he's tired and is under some kind of stress so I just want to let it go and give him a hug when he calms down and lets me. But all eyes are on me and I don't want to be the Pushover Yuppie White Mom Who Lets Her Darling Run Over Her. Or the other times when they've been at it all day and I am *done*, and know that now I'm Pitiful Single Mom Who's Mean To PrHer Kids to all the watchful eyes.

Parenting is hard enough without all the baggage of race, ethnicity, economic status, class, and all the other ways we judge each other (for better or worse). I feel like I am *finally* starting to be able to let some of that go when I look at other parents. I wish, though, that I had the strength to not even notice the looks I get in public so that I could focus on the actual situation with my kids. We are *never* not going to judge other people based on their behavior, but I wish that I had the strength just to handle a situation exactly as I would if we were at home, without noticing how others react to us.

I can't be the only one. What are your least favorite Parenting In Public situations? On what grounds do you think you get judged? Are there situations in which you know you judge others prematurely?

* Yes, I realize that in my example I've made my hypothetical boyfriend my property. I think it's OK. He's hypothetical only, so he doesn't mind being dehumanized a little bit.

Comments

[septembergrrl]

I hate it when my daughter is hyper in public and I have to bring her down. Obviously, the other people in the library/grocery store/whatever have a right to go about their business without having a 3-year-old run past them while singing at the top of her lungs -- but at the same time, I hate disciplining her for being *happy.*

I don't have the reaction to sharing that you do, but maybe that's because my daughter's never minded it -- I'd probably feel more inclined to agree if it was a day-ruiner for her. We also don't bring personal toys in public very often to start with.

[Becca]

My little guy is still young for me to have many examples on this, but I just wanted to say YES! on the weirdness of forcing babies to share. My son just turned one, and since he was 5-6 months old parents of other babies at his playgroup have been into "sharing." Usually it would go the other way though - my baby would grab at a toy another baby was playing with, the other baby would jerk it away and go "ahhh!" Then the other parent would say "OH MY GOODNESS, SHARE, baby, SHARE!" and take the toy away from their own child to give to mine. I would jump in and say "oh no no, they don't have to share, they're just babies! So-and-so can keep playing with the toy, I'll just give J something else." But the entire thing was always just so uncomfortable.

One thing I do feel judged on is when I want to use my "firm voice." I know the kiddo is pretty young but I think learning "no" and that mama is in charge is very important.

He had a real kicking issue when he was a bit younger. Obviously he wasn't actually trying to hurt anyone, but he'd always turn his legs so his feet were touching another person and KICK KICK KICK quite hard. He did it to me a lot and it really did hurt. So I started grabbing his feet when he'd kick and say very firmly "NO! We do NOT kick people!"

When people would see me doing this in public, I felt like a lot of them (especially other first time moms whose babies didn't yet need to be told no) were judging me and thinking I was so harsh. They just didn't know what a problem the kicking had become, I guess. I also didn't think it was fair to the baby not to tell him no in public because I didn't want him to get confused on what was ok.

[Jessie]

Oh, goooood points about sharing. My daughter is only 15 months old, but I've already found it hard to strike a balance in public with other kids we don't know between getting her to be kind and being on her side (and the side of justice) when that other kid takes something she was playing with. (Especially hard at the library or bookstore when the things don't belong to anyone.) I feel weird telling someone else's kid to give her back the toy she was playing with, but ya know what? I'm gonna keep doing it.

Somewhere along the line I pick up an extra measure of Mama Bear Fierceness. I have more, it seems, than most of the other moms I know or have heard about. I'm responsible to and for MY KID, not you (stranger), you (friend or acquaintance), your kid, or even social norms. Not to say I don't want to raise a respectful and kind kid -- I'm just gonna do that the best way I know how, regardless of what you think of it. (And I'll throw a juvenile "So there!" in just to prove my point.) :-)

[Elita @ Blacktating]

Parenting in Public is always hard and I honestly don't think you can ever win. If you discipline your kids, you're a horrible mean mom. If you let them get away with what is often completely normal behavior for their age, you're too permissive and letting the kid run all over you. When you toss in assumptions about class and race it gets super sticky. That is one of the major problems I have with the whole "free range" parenting movement. Like, I could just see a black mom trying to explain to the cops that she had dropped her 8-year-old off at the park and walked away because she was participating in a stunt choreographed by Lenore Skenazy.

[KiwiLog]

Hi! We loved your post over at KiwiLog and decided to feature it as part of our weekly mom blog roundup. Thanks!

[carmie]

I feel as if I get judged for my 4 year old son's behavior A LOT. He's very big for his age (150th % for height/ 125th for weight) and has some emotional/developmental issues that result in really poor social and processing skills. So yeah, I'm THAT mom with THAT kid almost every time we go out in public. He'll be growling or spitting or pushing at an 8 year old who's the same size as him but since he's so advanced verbally, it's assumed he's about the same age, too. Either that, or he'll run away/knock over store displays/break the credit card scanner. It's not obvious how young he is, he just seems like a really poorly disciplined kid who's kind of mean. Meanwhile, I'm trying to de-escalate him and manage the almost 2 year old too. Who, although very cute and sweet, is at that methed-out octopus stage. Oh, and I'm single, their dad's not involved.

Someone always mentions spanking, or threatens me with "you'll have to leave if you can't control your child." I AM attentive to his behaviors and I DO work him through things patiently and calmly, but when he's on a roll, he's really hard to get under control. I am so discouraged. It's my hope that with time and some counseling and other services, going out in public with him won't be such a sucky experience.

Having gone through this the past few years, my judgy tendencies are all but squashed. About the only time I feel a little "tsk tsk" welling up is when I see a parent do something really outrageous, like leave their child in the car on a hot day, hitting them, etc.

[Slim]

@carmie --"Someone always mentions spanking, or threatens me with "you'll have to leave if you can't control your child." "

Wow. That would make me want to not leave the house, ever. So I wanted to give you a round of applause for keeping on keeping on. It is hard.

[Shandra]

It's funny - with the toddler stuff I felt less engaged with my ego about it. I think I had steeled myself that there were going to be awkward PIP moments and I kind of had decided not to care.

For sharing I only brought dollar store stuff and I had two of each, so when that dynamic started I'd whip out #2 and hand it over. But I agree. We always phrased it as "taking turns" but you know what? My neighbours do not get to take my car or my tools and my coworkers don't get the last interoffice envelope either, y'know? Not that I won't share, but the default is kind of no.

Now at almost-5 I find that I am feeling more embarrassed about certain things, and I have to work to find that detachment.

Two recent examples, both of which relate to my son's need to warm up to new situations. He refused to get onstage for his end-of-year concert, which was a problem because he had some big lines. (He eventually did...after I stood with him at the side of the stage in front of everyone for about 20 minutes. No coaxing, just letting him get used to it.)

And at a recent birthday party he was overwhelmed and again just refused to participate (tatoos, face painting, games).

I try to keep my zen. But I do feel like it's really hard to know when to push and when to explain.

[Emily]

I think I'm being judged more than I am sometimes. I'm always nervous in church — our church is very quiet, and I'm always on my poor children to stop jumping around (at 3, what else do you do?) Yesterday, I was in the middle of whispering in my daughter's ear to stop climbing on the pew, thinking that the elderly woman behind me must be horrified, when the woman pulled out a dollar bill and handed it to my daughter. She whispered, "This is because you were so good in church today. You can pick out a treat." Then she said to me, "You have such beautiful children."

It made me feel bad for being so harsh, and it made me step back a bit. They were being good, they weren't really disruptive and it was me who was the problem. I'm in a constant battle inside my head, wanting to parent my way in public and parenting a different way because I worry about other people too much.

[Mama Fuss]

If my child is playing with a toy, actively, I don't make her share for the exact reason you mentioned. But if she has a pile of toys around her, and is only playing with one or 2, then the other ones should be able to be shared. I like your illustration about the boyfriend, btw. :)

My least favorite PiP problem is when I feel she is being willfully disobedient and and I feel the need to give her a little swat - I am always concerned about what other people are going to think/say/do. I know not everyone believes in "spanking" and I'm not talking about beating my kid - I'm talking about a strong tap on her thigh to call her attention to her behavior.

[SarcastiCarrie]

@Shandra - I feel your warming up to new situations pain as I was *that mom* in the pool during kid-only swimming lessons because her kid would not go in the water alone.

Moxie does not have to share or take turns with strangers at the park when she is playing with her new iphone or Droid or blackberry or whatever and I don't *necesarily* make my kid give his toys to other kids either, but if he's not playing with it and doesn't want it until another kid does, that's a different lesson I teach.

I gave my kid a time out in public once. It was pretty awful. People were watching, but it had to be done. And things were better afterward. I couldn't even take it to the car because he was just that uncooperative right then (and I had the baby with me). So, as people walked by, I kept laughing and joking (while I had my back to the hysterical child) and said things like "consequences" and "had to follow through on that threat" and "he's 3".

[nutmeg]

First on sharing. Amen. The kids at my son's daycare are at the point where they report to the teachers that "So and so isn't sharing." And one of my favorite teachers always reminds them that sharing doesn't mean you get to play with whatever you want whenever you want to. Even with communal toys, sharing doesn't usually mean what kids (and their parents often) want it to mean.

My son has developed into a really sensitive and kind kid. I think it's great, But like everything this comes with downsides. He is slow to warm up (like Shandra's son) and every new situation (or even not so new) comes with twenty minutes of support and hand holding. I think this is also an american kind of thing. People are supposed to be flexible, outgoing, versatile, etc. My son is charming and personable once he warms up, but I think a lot of stock is put into being "brave"

[Rudyinparis]

Like Shandra's son, Eldest is slow to warm up... (hmmm.... this is perhaps a related thread and doesn't speak directly to PIP?)... and I struggle with this, sometimes. It annoys me that many adults feel *entitled* to a gregarious child, and if the child is not correspondingly extroverted and winsome there is some weird subtle disapproval. On the other hand, sometimes adults we come across are genuinely friendly and want to engage with her, and when they are rebuffed I often want to prompt (okay, push) her to be more receptive. It feels like she is somehow being rude. But she's not--she's being herself. We, as adult women, are not required to grin like idiots at every person (always, in my experience, a man) that tells us we are supposed to be smiling. This happened to me all the time when I was in my 20s, it drove me crazy. I'm rambling. I guess my point is I don't want Eldest to be false to herself, and I don't want to give her the message that if somneone commands her to be friendly she is required to do so, but I do want her to be polite, and I'm not sure how to talk about this.

[Jennifer]

As an expat parent I LOATHE parenting in the airplane. So much so that I dread and delay visiting my own family in the states. First off, as soon as all the other passengers see you waiting at the gage with your kids they give you the stink eye. And once in the plane, even a well behaved kid is going to slowly deteriorate over the course of an 8 hour flight in which they are required to sit still the whole time (and add in the boring waiting time at the airport before they even got into the plane). Young kids get the ear pressure pain thing. And in the event of bad behavior, the normal strategies that I'd use - ignoring a tantrum and letting him yell with zero response for however long it takes until he pulls himself together; sending him to his room; removing the food from the table when table manners break down - are impossible on an airplane. Basically you do whatever you can to settle them down asap so the other passengers aren't disturbed, and then you get criticized for rewarding/giving in to bad behavior (oh yes, I have been told that on a flipping trans-Atlantic flight oh yes I have. Fine. Next time I'll do what I usually do which is let him scream and whine for 20 minutes. Then you'll tell me what a good job I'm doing teaching that whining doesn't pay, right? Right?) No matter what I do on a plane, somebody is going to judge me. The worst parenting situation EVER.

[Annika]

OMFG the "sharing." I live in Los Angeles, and mostly encounter this with Hispanic families, but it's happened with white, Asian, etc. families as well (I can't remember every seeing a black family at either of the parks we frequent, which strikes me as really strange now that I think about it). It seems to be an across-the-board thing, though, and I think I just see it more with Latinos because there are more Latinos at the park.

My problem isn't usually with "sharing" our toys, as I am rarely organized enough to remember to bring any, but with Sam grabbing another kid's toy. I want to teach him that he can't just take anything he wants, but the other moms/dads/nannies (it's mostly nannies) always force their child to "share," thus teaching Sam that he can indeed take anything he wants. ARGH.

[Erin]

Now that I'm a parent, I'm finding myself "forgiving" the things I used to be judgmental about. For example, this weekend we stopped at the local candy/ice cream shop on our way to the park. This is a HUGE treat for our little one as it's a very rare occurrence. He picked out a little lolly pop, and the hubby and I each got ice cream, and then we headed on to the park. When we got there, we all sat down on a bench and the little one proceeded to eat his sucker while alternating between bites of each of our ice creams. I realized then that if I had seen another family doing something similar I would have immediately assumed they were constantly giving their child sugar, and would have judged them as bad parents. I'm going to try as hard as I can to remember this next time I'm thinking critical thoughts about random families I see...

[parisienne mais presque]

@Jennifer - and that is exactly why I went back home by myself this year, sans three-year-old! Oh, do I dread plane trips with kids. The animosity (including the anticipatory animosity in the waiting area) of other passengers, the general suckiness of the situation for the kid and for yourself, a culture of unrealistic expectations... yeah. Maybe our next family trip back home will be when the oldest is 15.

@carmie - you get my applause, too, for perservering in such a tough situation!

One of my worst PIP moments came recently, when my husband and I both lost our cool after a potty accident in public. We're just a teensy bit stressed right now because if we don't make potty progress in the next four weeks, we have no child care solution for September. It was funny, because in the middle of what I will freely admit was our harsh, counterproductive, inappropriate and uncharacteristic public response, a teenager with a punk rebel look came up to my husband and said "go on, take advantage of your power while you can." Which I didn't catch at the time, alas, but in retrospect it was so perfect! If I'd overheard, it would have made me laugh and completely diffused the situation. As it was, we all went back to the car, calmed down, and I asked my son for a "do-over."

Anyway, I try not to judge a thirty-second glimpse of someone else's parenting because I never know what is going on in their life. I've been particularly aware of this ever since my husband and I simultaneously lost all patience with each other and our then-two-year-old and started *screaming* together on a busy street in a very yuppie-PC neighborhood of Seattle.

The context? An extremely stressful visit with my mother, a ton of my own emotional baggage, and two adults who were momentarily dealing with it all badly. We were hardly our best selves, and what we did was not respresentative of our parenting style, whatever that is. But I could tell that the people around us were all observing us, horrified.

[Jennie]

I am just really glad to read this post today. I am in the trenches right now with my two year old. We just returned from the park and he had two tantrums, crying quite loudly to let all the people know at the park that he was upset. I finally had to remove him from the swing and just leave, with everyone staring, while at the same time juggling my 10 month old. Sheeesh.

I had to react differently at the park than I normally would because I felt that everyone staring would have thought me the horrible, cruel mom, with him wailing like that.

And then again, there is a small voice in the back of my head that tells me they've all been there and done that, they just can't reach out and tell me this because they're too busy minding their own full loads.

[koshercow]

When my youngest was about 16months she was going through a big screaming phase. She would scream these very high pitched screams that made your ears bleed. She did it when she was happy, excited, or whatever - there was no rhyme or reason to it.

I thought that being in the kids section of our very kid-friendly library would be ok. One day she started on her screaming thing and I did as much as I could to distract her. I took her to the furthest corner which is actually a little cave-like room. Even though the place was swarming with kids and not exactly quiet, another mom complained. The librarian came and told us very sheepishly that we'd have to leave. I saw the mom who complained - she had a very nasty and self-satisfied look on her face and said something like "you must be used to it but it's very disturbing to us".

I was speechless and did leave. I was embarrassed to as I am hoping to be a librarian at this library one day and of course I think they'll remember this a few years from now when I'm interviewing! ha !

But regardless, don't people think that if your kid is screaming or acting up in some way, you, the parent DON'T want them to do this and you are doing everything you can. Why can't other parents give parents a break?

[Lynn]

@Jennifer and anyone who just knows they're going to get critical comments in a certain situation - something that might help - make a game of it. I mean, if it's that common, make a bet with yourself on how long it'll take for the first jerky comment, or score points with yourself like bingo: 1 point for every stinkeye, 2 points for gratuitous "helpful" comments, 3 points for flat-out criticisms, and see how many points you can score per flight. Might make it less annoying...

[Myislamiclife.wordpress.com]

Let me preface this comment by saying that my parenting style is strict, conservative attachment parenting with a lot of redirection, positive reinforcement, unconditional love and natural consequences.

I always ran into the problem of parenting in public when someone felt they could do my job better than I could and try to step in and parent (redirect, scold, warn) my child themselves.

Back in the day I would quietly seethe, but now I tell them in various ways, that I am the parent, not them and thank you very much but go fly a kite.

[KatieV]

Can't wait to read all these comments.

I always find the grocery store to be a scorn-filled outing. Sometimes I just have to open that box of crackers during our shopping trip to keep the toddler quiet! Don't judge me for it people--I'm still going to pay for it.

[EmJay]

Tantrum in public at 2-3 year old range. We try not to let it phase us and are even willing walk away just out of view, but close enough to know what's going on. It hasn't happened often but when my kid falls off the deep end she falls way off, but everytime someone steps up to interfere. I appreciate the "it takes a village" attitude, but hate having to explain we are trying to discourage the behavior. Ended up having to just wrestle her to the car. Seriously, it would have been safer both of us to just let her finish the episode on the floor in the store.

[caramama]

I honestly can't think of any specific PIP issue which makes me change my behavoir. I do cringe at how wild my spirited daughter can be in public, but I handle it the same as I do in private, which is usually getting a hold of her and talking sternly and then keeping her with me even if I have to carry or drag her while she cries about it.

The only times I might change how I act is if I'm with my husband and I think he'll care about something. But in my mind, I simply pretend that everyone around understands that 3 year olds are tough and parenting is hard. If they don't, then they can deal with their misconceptions themselves.

So I do what I have to do. I generally talk things out with her, and I continue that in public, which I think helps me feel less judged. Cause I will outright say (and in a normal voice so others around will hear), "You are not listening, and I told you if you didn't listen and stay with me that you would have to ride in the cart. I know you are upset, but you still have to stay in the cart" or whatever.

@Sharing - I almost always say "take turns" and then for things that are communal. For example, we were at the pool on Saturday, and there are a bunch of toys that have been left there that are available for everyone to play with. My daughter uses them along with the toys we bring. So there are just a bunch of toys all over the kiddie pool. When another kid came over and started using her bucket that was just sitting there and she said that it was hers, I reminded her that the toys at the pool and toys we bring to the pool are for everyone to play with. And she was fine with that. If she was actively playing with one or when we gather our toys to go home, I let the other kids know that those are ours and we need them back.

Since I don't usually bring our toys any other places, we don't really have a big problem with this. But I don't think kids should have to give up their toys or what they are playing with if they don't want. I just tell the other kid that my daughter is still playing with that toy, or I tell my kids that it's the other kid's toy and find them something else.

@Rudyinparis - So the other night, I was still feeling really sick and hungry (stomach virus), my daughter had just been acting crazy climbing all over me, I put the baby down and he was screaming for me... and when I passed by my own husband, he said, "Hey, smile." WHAT??? I tried to go for silly and stuck my tongue out (no kids were looking). And he got all mad at ME! So I kind of yelled at him and told him that sticking my tongue out WAS my nice reaction. hehe. Once I'd calmed down, I explained what had been going on and pointed out why someone telling me to smile then was not a good idea. Yeah, I hate it when someone tells me to smile, too.

@Jennifer - Just know that there are some of us who are not giving the stink eye! I'm the one who is trying to offer you smiles and understanding, and often trying to play peek-a-boo or some other game to entertain and distract your child. I've also started speaking to the parents loud enough for other passengers to hear, saying how hard it is to travel with kids, and that I/we understand how hard the parent is trying, etc. So look for another parent/person like me, and try to concentrate on how much some of us love having kids around (especially when they are other people's kids, heh!).

[paola]

@Jennifer

We have a 21 hour flight coming up in a month's time and I'm DREADING it so much to the point that your post gave me a total anxiety rush! DD is impossible when over-tired and to make matters worse has night-terrors when she isn't rested, and what do you do when you have a 3.5 year old freaking out for 30 mintues at 10,000 feet???

Yeah, PIP is fun. Said DD gets really overwrought in shopping malls, probably becasue there is so much to do, see and touch, that the situation soon deteriates into a complete meltdown. She is so much better now that she is a little over 3.5, but we have had some really awful tantrums in public. She would just plonk herself down on the floor and start spitting ( I know charming!)and then I would have to pick her up and carry/drag her ( along with the shopping if there was any and her 5 year old brother)back to the car, where the tantrum would continue another 20 mintues or so. Of course she wouldn't stay still enough for me to even buckle her up and get the hell out of there, so I wasn't going anywhere. Eventually she would cool down enough for me to fasten the seat-belt, but the spitting would continue until we got home.

But yeah, the looks we got. Especially in the car-park. You know people are thinking that a good whallop would fix all that.

[Cloud]

@Lynn- I totally want to look at my husband and yell "BINGO!" next time I get an unhelpful suggestion from a stranger... I won't do it, but I'll giggle thinking about it, so thanks.

I agree parenting on a plane just SUCKS. And I have so far only had pretty good luck with plane rides- no huge meltdowns, the good luck to be seated next to friendly grandmas or moms of teenagers, who actually ask if they can hold my baby while I eat.... But some people do have totally unrealistic expectations of little kids on airplanes, and we live in a time when a sizable minority of adults feel that they have some sort of innate right to go through their lives and never be inconvenienced in any way whatsoever by someone else's kids... and they write essays and snarky comments on blog posts and make sure that parents know that WE ARE ON NOTICE. So we are all hypersensitive about our kids' airplane behavior, even when nothing bad is happening. God forbid we inconvenience someone else.

The worst plane ride I ever had to take as a frequent business traveler had nothing to do with kids at all. I was seated in the middle seat between two people who knew each other and the proceeded to spend the entire cross country flight talking over me, and refused to switch seats with me, despite my repeated offers. Give me a crying baby over that any day- as long as it is not my baby crying!

On the sharing thing- in our neck of the woods, the sharing protocol for 2 years and under is more logical, I think. As long as a kid is playing with a toy, it is his turn. As soon as he puts it down, another kid can have a turn. Their attention spans are so short at this age that the other kid rarely has to wait all that long. This is how our day care did sharing for kids 2 and under and I guess all the parents just picked up on that. The 3 year olds at our day care share more in the way you describe, Moxie. Some other kid asks for a turn, and the first kid is expected to finish up and hand the toy over.

My own parenting in public issue is my hyper-talkative 3 year old. She is super enthusiastic and just wants to tell everyone about whatever she is excited about. I don't want to shut her down, really. I think it is great that she is so excited about things and wants to share. She's only 3. The world will squash her enthusiasm a bit as she gets older, I hate to start the process so soon! But I can see that freaked out look we get from other people sometimes, and I feel I have to step in and shush her. I haven't figured out how to handle this yet.

[Kristin]

Ooh, I love this post and the comments!

I agree about the sharing issue, although for us it's usually mostly an issue of my neighbors older kids just taking a toy away from my son (that is usually his btw). If their mom is around, she usually corrects them, but if she's not and I do they tend to give me the 'why' routine. uhg.

[Jan]

Moxie, you need to move out west with the rest of us hippies. My kids have been taught (at daycare) that when someone else is using something we want, we say "when you're finished with that, I would like to have a turn" and then if a VERY long time passes, perhaps "can you tell me when you'll be done with your turn so I can have one?" (Which I do realize still wouldn't be OK from a that's-my-boyfriend standpoint, but it's definitely better than this-is-mine,please-take-it.)

Parenting in public: I was never embarrassed by the toddler tantrums (and I don't know why, really, because it certainly happened). I worry sometimes that people are judging me for the physical stuff I let my kids do on the playground -- they are both really advanced in gross motor and both super good at knowing their own limits. I can count on one hand the number of times anybody has had to be rescued, and those have been when the older "helped" the younger do something he wouldn't have been able to do on his own. My general rule with this stuff is, if you can do it, you can do it, if you can't do it, I'm not going to help you. Which sounds so mean when you SAY it, but my kids know what I mean, which is that if you can't get up/onto/over something, that shows a physical limitation that probably means you shouldn't be up/onto/over that thing so I'm not doing you any favors by helping you. Work at it, and when you can do it, it'll likely be safe for you to do so. (A nice side effect is that they seem to have a better-than-average sense of their physical limitations.) Anyway, I always think the other mommies are thinking, "geez, you'd think that lazy bitch could put down her book long enough to help her little boy climb up to the fire pole."

Also we have an ongoing battle around what constitutes Total Meltdown and what the appropriate response is. I tend toward "help the kid settle down" but The Rest Of The World seems to see that has rewarding bad behavior (with my attention).

I find that for the most part, though, the things that embarrass me about my parenting in public is really just the stuff I'm not proud of. Like that really snotty tone that creeps into my voice when I'm edging toward falling off the Precipice of Lost Patience. Or sarcasm. I use it on my kid, feel ashamed of myself, then look to see who else might have overheard (and be judging) me.

[Beth Bender]

Funny you should post this today because in the past two days I've had one really ugly and another not so pretty incidents in public with my four year old. More than once I have been That Bitch Mom and I've just learned to get over it and not worry about it. Subsequently, what I try to remember when I see other parents is you are just looking at a snap shot of someone's life. For example, this morning when I spazed at my kid in Target for running around, pulling and pushing on the cart, pulling and pushing on me, the average bystander doesn't know that we had just spent a half hour in Kohl's having the exact same problem with the stroller his brother was riding in. I just looked like a psychotic bitch for chewing out my kid within five minutes of walking into the store.

And about the sharing thing, I so agree with you. With us it's sand toys. My 4 y/o loves to bring his outside trucks, buckets, etc. to the sandbox at the park. My rule is that if he's going to do this he has to understand other kids are going to play with them. We also have specific toys for the sandbox that are cheap and easily replaceable when they get lost. Over the past two years he's learned to deal with that. Last year I got a nasty look from a Mom because her daughter wanted the toy he was playing with and he wouldn't give it up. Um, no. It's *his* toy. We had others she could have played with. Anyway, Other Mom was quite upset with me when her daughter came to tell me my son wasn't sharing and I told her he didn't have to.

Although I will say I don't like when other people bring toys and get super possessive about other kids playing with them. It's one thing if your kid is actively playing with it but if you're going to dump out a bag of toys in public it's mean not to let other kids play. Leave them home if you're so worried about it.

[Sharon]

PIP incident this morning. Walking (1 mile) 4 year olds to school with stroller. Daughter freaks out that seat isn't right. Demands I fix it in rude tone. I give option of asking nicely, fixing herself, or walking. Commence meltdown. Very loud crying while she holds my hand and we walk a few blocks. Each block I stop to ask her if she wants to make a different choice. Son is freaking out "I'm extremely hungry and don't want to miss breakfast." So eventually I give choices for last time, with final option that I put her in stroller. She won't pick, so I have to put her in stroller and put stroller straps on her because she won't stay in. She's screaming "ow, it's uncomfortable" as I strap her in and cars are slowing down as though I'm abusing the child. That was fun. Perhaps I should have backed down and fixed the seat for her but I really didn't want to reward rudeness and then it was really hard to deescalate. Bluh.

[JCF]

Ugh. I hate the sharing thing. I have a 2.75 year old and a 1.5 year old, and we live in an apartment building that has a shared playground/grassy area. It is always super crowded, especially in the evening (after nap, before dinner). My son is always wanting to bring his baby stroller, tricycle, sidewalk chalk, etc. out, but then gets upset when the toy is immediately swiped by another kid. It is so hard to navigate the sharing thing, especially because these aren't families whom we see at the park once and never again, they are neighbors. I don't mind dealing with it a little more my style with parents and kids with whom we are friends, but it is more difficult with those whom we don't know well.

[Rudyinparis]

@ Caramama: HA! (Hope you feel better, too.)

[Raia]

My PIP pet peeve is that I dislike when all the other parents immediately jump in when the kids are interacting and someone has grabbed a toy or done something else that is not ok but also nonviolent. I want to give the kids an opportunity to sort it out themselves first before the adult jumps in. Yet, because it is public, I feel compelled to do the same thing as everyone else and immediately rush in to mediate the situation. Part of it is because we are a minority and I frankly don't want other people getting the idea that black moms don't parent their kids and instead leave them to fend for themselves. The other part is that it is such a prevalent part of the culture here and I guess I've buckled under. Also, since that post awhile back about supporting other parents in public, I'm much more likely to give a sympathetic look or a what-can-you-do shrug when I see someone struggling with a misbehaving kid.

[Mitch]

I have a tough kid and sometimes get "looks" when I discipline in public. I would rather live with strangers judgement than let my child behave like a pig. I have also been applauded by making my son return something he forcefully "shared" away from another child, and conversely say it is OK for him not to share something that he has, after all, he brought it for his own use. Us parents have to learn that we can't worry about other people's judgements, we have to stay the course and do what we think is right for our kid. And that ain't easy!
www.gaynycdad.com

[BlueBirdMama]

Overall my worst moments come when my son runs away from me in the store and I'm to tired/stressed to deal with it calmly. I speak German with my son and, you know, German is not the friendliest sounding language, especially when you're shouting the German equivalent of "Stop! Get back here this instant!" The first world out of my mouth is usually, "HALT!" I feel like everyone looks at me like I'm Frau Kommandant getting ready to release the hounds on him or something.

@Moxie: amen to the sharing thing. And I never felt embarrassed about not forcing a 2 year old to share, because it's a ridiculous expectation.

@Jennifer: I feel you on the air travel thing. Best story ever: on a long international flight, our three year old was sitting in his seat reading a book with his Dad on the plane. He was talking and asking questions in a voice just loud enough to be heard over the roar of the engines. The man in front of us turned around and said in a snotty voice, "Could you please get your child to keep his voice down, some people are trying to sleep." (It was not night time, by the way.) My husband said, "Oh, ok. Do you have any suggestions for how I can get a bored 3 year old to sit without speaking?" The man said, "No, I don't have kids." My husband, smiled and said, "OOOHHH, you don't have kids?" The man said really snidely, "But when I DO, I WILL teach them to be QUIET!"

We had a good, long laugh over that one. The most hilarious part was that E. was extraordinarily well behaved on that flight and wasn't doing anything a normal human would regard as disruptive. Just goes to show you, you really CANNOT worry about what everyone on the plane thinks of your parenting.

@koshercow, I cannot BELIEVE another Mom tattled on your kid for being loud. How rude! What these comments teach me is that the next time I notice parents & kids having a tough time in public, if I have the opportunity I'm going to give the parents a warm smile and a "what are you going to do?" shrug. More parents supporting each other in public (even if we think we would handle the situation differently) would probably be a good thing!

[carmen]

Restaurants. Hate them. At home we all eat at the table and the 3 year old asks a million times to be excused after he wolfs his food down so I'm not a pushover at home or anything, but I'm used to dinnertime battles of keeping him in a chair. He's learning. In a restaurant I feel all this pressure for him to sit still, not talk loudly, not get out of his seat, ect for hours on end sometimes. I abhore taking them to restaurants unless its 1. kid friendly, 2. It's only us (meaning no lingering adults to chat for an hour after dinner about bullshit when my kids are DONE eating), 3. Its a slow time. Now with a baby in the mix its that much harder.

[ACJ]

So struggling with PiP, particularly the Extrovert Parenting an Introvert. In this case, "public" can be grandma and grandpa, beloved aunts, good friends... people we know well who fairly expect a fair degree of comfort from the 3-year-old girl. Forty-five minutes later and she's still wrapped around my leg, not making eye contact and I'm humiliated. I have taken to answering for her which may be a terrible error, but it covers my embarrassment and I tell myself, models for her how she can handle these moments on her own: "So, normally we would say 'Hi Grandma.'" or "When a grown-up asks how you are doing, you can say, "Fine thank you." Eventually, she comes around but it takes *forever* and I find it excrutiating.

As for regular public, I find the peer pressure makes me a better parent. I can go just that little bit longer before I shout, I can find amusing uses for zippers and credit cards to keep a waiting room possible. Perhaps the extrovert in me thrives with all those people around...?

[Schwa de Vivre]

It's funny what you notice or don't in public. I breastfed in public, and never once noticed that anyone had a problem with it -- but my companions sometimes did. When I bring my son out with my husband, my husband notices everyone smiling and oohing and aahing over our son -- and I perceive people questioning my parenting. People certainly do judge how you parent in public (and some people have issues with breastfeeding in public, the jackasses). For me, it gets down to my own issues -- I fear being judged, I think it happens a lot, I know it happens a lot less than I think it does, I know I should care even less than that. I try to remember what one of my mommy friends shared with me once: "It's not my business what other people think of me." And I try to keep in mind what's important: how I want to parent, how my kid is doing, all that good stuff. I still worry too much about what people think, though.

But weirdly, I don't worry about it when I'm disciplining. Usually I perceive, or imagine, plenty of people sending me silent kudos, because plenty of people think "the kids today" need to be disciplined.

I guess its when I'm worried that people *think* my son needs to be reined in, and I don't think he does, that I get a little worried.

[grrrr]

I feel very differently about enforced sharing.

In my neck of the woods (with very big asian and latino communities), adults who make their kids share no matter what are people with a communitarian philosophy, rather than an individualistic philosophy.

In the US we typically privilege the individual over the group. In more communitarian cultures the group is privileged over the individual. Enforced sharing is part of acculturating children to group orientation.

One philosophy is not better than the other - they are just different. Though I am white, I am very communitarian by nature/philosophy, and in our family we feel strongly that possessions are for the group and that feelings matter more than inventory. Our children have very, very few things that view as theirs alone.

Different strokes for different folks.

[grrrr]

But just to clarify, I would never let my kid take a toy from another kid, and wouldn't expect a child outside our family and inner circle of like-minded friends to share unless they wanted to! We're not the toy swipers at the park! I promise!

I know that we are in the minority on this, and try to do what makes other parents and kids comfortable - part of my feelings not things approach.

[Stephanie]

I used to judge other parents...and then I became one. Anytime I see another parent struggling with their child in public, I just think that is either a)going to be me or, b)has been me.

[koshercow]

Just want to add one more comment about sharing - when my son was little he took a brand new set of sand toys to our little community park. He went off to play on the swings. Some parents of another kid asked if their kid could play with the toys - we said yes, but before we had seen that the "other"kids were about 5 yrs ols. They proceeded to take the bigger part of the toys like the spade and shovels and bash the heck out of them on the playset. They broke of course.

The dad came over with the broken pieces and just kind of shrugged at us. My son was devastated and we felt like Worst Parents Ever.

No more sharing after that. It ends in tears one way or the other!

[TodayWendy]

Oh, ick, the sharing. Whenever it comes up and my daughter wants something someone else has, I tell her in a voice loud enough to be overheard "You can ask to borrow it, but he might say no, and he's allowed to say no" - which seems to prevent the other parent from forcing their kid to "share" (which I think is horrible).

We've had some weird incidents at the park where something gets "borrowed" and then heads out of the park without us. When confronted, the adults in question just shrug.

Mostly though, I don't feel very judged. We were walking down the street the other day with a 3 year old walking 10 feet behind us throwing a temper tantrum. Every single parent we past grinned at us, and one lady actually whispered "mine was doing that exact same thing earlier" as she passed me.

[Zenmoo]

Well, I like to live in a bubble and believe that everyone is sympathetic and nice, especially to the effort of travelling with kids. I honestly believe most people will either not notice what you're doing with your kid or be sympathetic and positive. It's only the rare freak who is rude and/judging - and if they want to go through life all sour and cat-bum mouthed, well that is their problem.

My bubble is a happy place!

[caramama]

@Zenmoo - That's my philosophy exactly! In fact, I have been known on numerous ocassions to say, "I'm invoking my bubble." It's nice in here. ;-)

[Beth]

"Are there situations where you know you judge others prematurely?"

I'll admit that I get a bit judgmental when I see obviously tired children being dragged around a grocery store at 9pm or 10pm. The poor kids seem so tired and it seems the parent is just asking for a meltdown from an over-tired kid. I try and tell myself that maybe this poor working parent has no other time in the week to shop, or that they just got back from an overseas flight and the kid is jet-lagged and it isn't their bedtime, or that this kid always goes to bed at 10pm and/or only needs a few hours of sleep at night. However, the kids just look exhausted.

I've seen this scenario a lot; I quite often do grocery shopping after our kids are in bed and my husband stays home with them while I run some errands. More than judging the parents, I think I mainly feel compassion for the kids. Anyway, thought I'd honestly share this one because it immediately came to mind - I surprise myself by how disturbed I feel when I witness this kind of thing.

[After Words]

I've been working on curtailing snacks with my 3 yo (who is totally in that Friend or Enemy stage) so my big issue is when we're somewhere in public and she whines that she's "So, so hungry!!!!" In the old days, I might have given her some raisins or goldfish, but I'm really, really trying not to do that anymore.

Today, she'd just finished a big lunch, but at the grocery store as soon as she was among the snack foods, she started whining about snacks, and I felt like Demon Mom, deliberately starving her child.

[Jill in Atlanta]

On sharing...
I began this when I was still single, but teaching preschool. Then I continued it with my own kids, who are 6 & 9 now.

IF there is only one of an item and it HAS to be shared or the other kid will have nothing, then the child with the object is instructed to say, "You can have it next." In my experience, they usually hand it over pretty soon when they're allowed to decide the timing. If they don't and the other child still cares, then I ask them to tell the requesting child how soon they will be ready to give it to them, (choices: in one minute, or in two minutes).

If there are other objects around, the child is also allowed to offer an alternative toy to the requester and ask if they would like it instead.

[Meghan]

I'll admit there is one thing for me where the judgement flows freely... swearing at your child. I can't think of any reason on earth to swear at a child. I've only seen it a couple times out in public, but I always wondered how those moms treated their children at home, if they were okay with using the "F word" at them in the middle of a store.

[Julie]

Like many others who've already commented, I've had plenty of awkward sharing moments at the playground with my two-year-old. When she wants to bring toys, I remind her that other children will probably ask to play with them. She tends to get upset if another child even shows interest in her toys, so when I remind her of the possibility of sharing, she usually opts to leave her toys at home.

I've been puzzled about how to handle her hitting and hair-pulling. She's been doing it more often lately, and I always tell her she needs to apologize to the child she hurt. She doesn't always comply, and I'm at a loss about what to do next. Do we leave? Sometimes that's not an option.

I have some mama friends who don't believe in forced apologies, that sincerity is more important. I don't agree. As an adult, I sometimes say things I don't mean to uphold social graces and keep the peace. Who doesn't?

I think my daughter needs to be held accountable for her actions in some way, and I don't want the children she hurts (or their parents) thinking that I'm okay with her behavior. I have no problem firmly talking to her about what she did wrong when we're in public. I haven't really felt judged in these situations, just helpless and a bit inept as a mother. I'm sure other parents can see how young my daughter is and understand that she's still learning. No one has ever said anything negative to me about my daughter's behavior or how I handle it, but that hasn't kept me from feeling foolish.