Second verse

Having a second child can suck, no?

I mean, let's all assume the disclaimer that we love our children and would give our lives for them, and are thrilled to have been able to have a first child and a second and more if we have them, and we wouldn't trade them for $50 billion or all the uninterrupted reading time in the world. And to all those of you still in the struggle to have your second (or first, or third, or fourth, or wherever you're stuck) child, we wish there was a way we could make it all happen painlessly and easily and for free and with no emotional stress for you and RIGHT NOW. So no one here is being ungrateful, and we wanted this child.

But.

It's hard. The dividing of the energy and awareness. The two conflicting needs. The knowing what's coming next and just wishing you could either fast-forward to it or through it. The insecurity of having felt like you were finally figuring out how to parent #1 and then #2 comes along and is an Entirely Different Person and you're, in a lot of ways, at square one all over again.

And you just feel bone-tired all the time, and cranky, and incompetent. It's like being in a snowglobe that's just been shaken violently.

I'm hoping that those of us who've survived the first year of having more than one child can give some support and perspective to those of you still in it. I'll start:

Consistency is for suckers. Your second child is not your first child, and the sooner you can connect with that and make decisions based on that, the better it will be for everyone. My first child was a Tension Increaser, so I couldn't let him cry for even 30 seconds or he'd escalate for hours and never fall asleep. My second child needed to cry to release enough tension to fall asleep. I struggled with letting him cry for weeks before I gave in to letting him create his own white noise, and then sleep became so much easier for all of us. If I'd really connected with the idea that they could be so different, I'd have saved a lot of struggle. Giving each of your kids what they *need* is good parenting. As long as you're not actually favoring one over the other, you don't have to make things equal or do things the same way you did with your first.

This isn't the rest of your life. Wow. I can still remember waking up in the morning and thinking, "How am I going to do this for the rest of my life??" Well, it's not. Even though the days all seem the same right now, at a certain point you'll find yourself being annoyed that your kids can't agree on which DVR'd episode of Phineas & Ferb to watch together. And that will, honestly, be the worst thing that happens to you in a four-hour stretch. There's light at the end of the tunnel.

Sometimes kids are jerks. Yes, the precious, rainbow-pooping lights of your life, but jerks nonetheless. Kids are little teeny people, and people all act like jerks, intentionally or not, every once in awhile. It's ok to be in touch with the fact that your kid's not doing you any favors. And, I'd argue, it's really really ok to let kids who are old enough to process it know when they've hurt your feelings.

You're not the only one. Remember when you had your first kid, and people kept saying things like "Treasure these precious moments" and you felt like a horrible monster because it was so hard, and then you met just one person who was willing to say "Of course I love my baby but this is way worse than I thought it would be"? Well, yeah. This was way worse than I thought it would be. (But then it got way better.)

FWIW, I felt like things got sharply better when my younger one was about 11 months old.

Now, anyone else out there who feels like they're mostly on the other side of the shock of having a sibling for your first one? What do you have for parents still in the trenches? At what point did it get better?

Comments

[Cloud]

Oh, and @Leorah- if the thought of some random internet stranger delivering the groceries isn't your thing (or you are nowhere near San Diego!), did you know that Von's delivers?

[Cloud]

OK, apparently I can't shut up about this today.

@Susan, another thing that occurred to me: I actually think that in some ways, being a WOHM was easier than being a SAHM when the second one came, at least for the first few months. Our toddler kept going to day care, and I got three months of intense time with the baby before I went back to work.

Of course, the downside is that now that I'm back at work, there is less time to go around, but with a truly co-parenting Hubby, that is not so bad. Oh, it is guilt-inducing and I definitely have my moments of being consumed by guilt. But when I look at things rationally, it is not so bad.

[caramama]

@Carmen - You should get the grandparents over to visit with the kids while you and your hubby work on the house or relax! And I love the idea of calling the second one the middle child. It will drive my hubby crazy. I will start doing that as soon as I get home. hehe.

[Alice]

THANK YOU! Perfect timing.

(Sorry in advance, I needed to get this off my chest.... Also bad grammar, no time as children crazy. I can't wait to read all the comments.)

I have a 3 year 4 month old and an 8 week old. I want to strangle the 3 year old. What happened to her? She is 'nutso' I have lost my well behaved child and now have a maniac. My 8 week old has reflux (just like older sister had) and is feeding 1.5-2 hours 24 hours a day, interrupted by blood curdling screaming.

I feel guilty because I just want to be with my baby and not have anything to do with my older one because I can't control her (baby seems so much easier the second time around). I know she needs to run around and burn off energy but I'm exhausted and trying to figure out naps for the younger one - he is much better when I can give him a good nap in the morning, which of course is when we need to go out.

My daughter is on a waitlist for Kindy, but won't start for some time, I can't afford childcare (husband just lost job, and i resigned from my crappy night job a little while ago). My daughter is still recovering from chickenpox (she is recovered but still picking off scabs and screaming.) My husband's family visited for 2 weeks and left a whirlwind and made me feel even worse about everything.

I am so OVER people telling me the first 6 weeks are the worst and it gets better - that's crap. It is getting WORSE not better. In fact I thought it was relatively easy the first 6 weeks, at least the baby was only waking 2 x a night.

My mantra at the moment is 'No blame, No Credit' - don't take the blame for when things go wrong and don't take the credit for things go right (otherwise I'll set myself up for trying to 'recreate' what worked only to be disappointed when it doesn't).

Also I'm so sick of saying to daughter "I'm sorry" "You have to wait" "Go find something to do!" (Which she won't as she doesn't like to play by herself, she LOVES people and is all over the baby when he is awake, poor thing.)

Ok, 2 kids screaming now....

[Erin]

I'm eight months pregnant with #2 and I'm sure I'll be coming back to this post and comments over and over and over again! I'm not that nervous about having two, but perhaps it's a bit of denial!! I'm lucky to have a long maternity leave, and my older one will be in some kind of child care so I can focus on the baby during the day. Also I'm a single mom for parts of the week, and the bonus to this (possibly the only bonus!) is that it gives me a chance to work with my toddler on waiting patiently for mommy, that she can't do everything he wants right away, that she has other things to do. So far, he's doing well. We'll see how the transition goes! Mostly I'm just really excited. (Ok, this must be denial, because clearly I've forgotten how difficult the first three months can be - those moments of sobbing by the side of the crib WHY WON'T YOU JUST SLEEP?)

[Erin]

PS I don't know what I'd do without Moxie and this community of parents who listen and comment without judgment to all the stresses, anxieties, fears, and rages of parenthood. Thank GOD there's a place where we don't have to pretend to be perfect!

[Julie]

@Leorah- if you are in the West LA/Santa Monica area, contact me at clarkmama at gmail dot com and, like Cloud, would be happy to pay back the universe for all the support I've gotten here from Moxie and her site.

[rkmama]

I was woefully underprepared for mothering 2. I guess I just sort of thought it would all fall into place but then the evening we came home from the hospital with my son, my husband had to go out and get dinner during which time my 2 year old daughter got her finger caught in her dresser drawer and started screaming. I had just gotten Baby Shark Gums to latch on to me but pulled him off after hearing my daughter scream and pretty soon we were all crying and I thought, "What kind of an idiot thinks this is a good idea?" I was so torn over which kid to comfort and felt so guilty- figuring my mothering instinct auto-pilot must be broken, or WORSE non-existent.
Now at 4.5 and 2 I am safely on the other side and have been since my son was 15 months. It may have taken us a little longer since my son was definitely the needier (read:screamier) of the two but we got there, and if WE can get there, I think nearly anyone can. It does feel like a never-ending cycle that first year for many of us but at some point, sometimes without you even noticing, you're a little bit more free and things do eventually fall into place. A hard-won place, and certainly different from the place you were in before #2 came along, but a good place nonetheless.

[Jenny]

We had our second son when our first was 3 1/2. With the older one, we'd finally gotten to a point where life was relatively smooth. We had some autonomy, more flexibilty, we were able to pick up some old hobbies again. When we had our second, we found ourselves firmly back at square one (as expected).

I agree with other posters who said that the first 6 months with #2 were easy (so easy that I was almost tempted to try for a 3rd). After 6 months, his sleep pattern changed and things got harder. Now he's 1 year and sleep is still somewhat funky. He's a late teether and I think that's contributing.

Life isn't crazy-hard, but with my little one still taking 2 naps a day, I'm feeling house-bound and trapped. Even though the weather hasn't been great here (Portland, OR), we all do better when we can get outside. And with both our kids, my husband and I have found that our own communication/connection is not as strong during that first year.

There are still many, many joyful moments. But I know that, in general, things could be easier. I'm not on the other side yet. But I'm hopeful that I'm close. (Please, let me be close!)

[WaltzInExile]

It gets better?!?!
Yeah, I'm still waiting.
Number two is 61-1/2 months now.

[Ingrid]

I totally needed this today!!!!! I am in the midst of that first year haze with number 2 (oldest is 2.5 and baby is three month old) and it has been so intense that it's almost unbearable on some days. But, as usual, your insights are totally spot-on, Moxie.

Number 2 is not Number 1. Nor, in my case, is she what is 'expected' in a second child. I think I've been struggling so much because because I've had some bizarre notion that I can get her to be that baby. That, like most other second children I know, she should be able to fall asleep on the go, should like to be carried in the various carriers I've tried, should be easygoing and quietly fit into the lifestyle we've developed as a family. Ha-ha. Did I not learn from baby #1? I've been calling her stubborn in my head but it turns out, maybe I'm the stubborn one. She's a tension increaser, needs to be bounced on the ball for every nap, only naps for thirty minutes at a time, is spitty, gassy, and screams like we're burning her feet if not attended to immediately.

So, I think the best piece of advice that I will begin heeding immediately is that you need to throw expectations out the window and reset your lifestyle to accomodate the new one, not try to jam them into your existing one. For us that will mean a few things things: 1) We cannot be the 'out and about' types for the forseeable future because if she screams when we're out, there's absolutely nothing I can do to soothe her (will someone please invent a go-go Gadget bouncy ball?!). 2) At three months, I still cannot function without A LOT of help from family, friends, and babysitters. It's no time to be proud. 3) My oldest simply has to live with many hours of screaming a day and scattered attention from me. 4) Sometimes, I will call my baby a jerk -- even out loud (GASP!). It doesn't make me a bad mom. It doesn't mean I'm horribly negative. Quite frankly, it just helps me add some humor to a tough moment to see me through to the next one.

I'm sorry this is so long but I also wanted to speak to the negativity thing. Admitting things are difficult or problematic is not what I consider negativity. Seeking help or consolation is not negativity in my book, either. Plus, I personally find sarcasm pretty cathartic and I'm pretty sure misery loves company -- it helps to know that you're not alone. I spent many a night with my first reading comments about unhappy babies and managed to laugh out loud, even through my own tears. I pictured other poor parents doing lunge walks around the house and it helped me. It's not negative to talk about how hard things are. It's life and this community has been essential to my growing into my new roles. Thank you Moxie and everyone who makes this forum great!!

[Emily]

Oh my word, I can't believe how timely this was for me, Moxie. Thank you! I just wanted to comment right away, and now I'll go back and read all the others. My second is 10 months old, and I've just recently begun missing my old life, the one with #1 (who was 4 y.o. when #2 was born), the one with more freedom and more sleep and less marital strife, etc. etc. I missed it very early on, and then that went away for a long time, so it really surprised me that I've been feeling kind of slightly resentful of #2 even though I am so very much in love with her. Such weird, contradictory emotions. Which is motherhood, in a nutshell, right? ;) Anyway, thanks again.

[Amy]

Our son was a surprise 2nd child. Our kids are 370 days apart- I was not ready for him- I was perfectly happy with our daughter. Now I can't imagine life with out him. He is our mellow man (thank God and knock on wood) Our daughter is HIGH drama- I don't honestly think we would willing consider another child at this point.

I feel guilty because he is so easy going that we do not pay enough attention to him. I fear I am giving him the wrong signals-scream loud enough or cry long enough and you will get a reaction out of mommy and daddy.

[Sarah]

I've been a long time lurker and just have to say that this post is exactly what I've been thinking of lately. I have a two year old and am planning on trying for number two soon. I have always known I want two kids, but now that I have one and am just feeling a bit more sure of who I am as a mom and who she is as a toddler I am SO afraid to mess with our rather nice routine. I feel like I just have to take a giant leap of faith and know that no matter the initial chaos, it will all be okay in the end. In a way reading that others feel/felt the same way makes taking that leap a little easier.

[Sharon @proactiveparenting]

I haven't been home all day, forgive me, I haven't read any of the posts. Now before you read this, know 2 things. I ADORE my kids, and I make my living as a parent educator. For years I perceived that being a parent educator meant I *should* only talk about the *good* stuff with regard siblings. I'm over that now and tell the truth, pretty or not. The truth is having siblings is HARD!!

I'm still laughing at what moxie said. I, too, don't want to rain on anyone’s parade. I wish, hope, and pray that everyone who wants a child gets to have a child. I honor those who know they don't want a child because it’s their truth.

IMHO does having siblings get any easier? No it gets different, in some ways better, and in some ways worse. It takes the patience of a saint and the creativity of a master artist to live through the interactions siblings put a family through.

All kidding aside, I tell parents that when a second child comes into the family you can *count* on the second child being different than the first one. Why? Because the personality and temperament you’re familiar with has already been taken by the first child. The second child needs to be unique, so he needs a different way of looking at things and a different way of reacting to things.

I great image I like to use are those old-fashioned pegboards. There’s a hole for mom, dad, first child. When the second child comes along he doesn’t try to squish in the same hole as the first child, he needs his own hole so he can be his own unique self in the family, so he comes with a different personality and temperament.

My children adored each other for the first 8 years of life. Seriously, they rarely had issues. AND THEN IT HAPPENED! Tall turned 11 and decided his brother was too young and not cool. Of course being 11 was way cool so he began to leave taller out of everything. Taller was crushed. He had grown up thinking this was the relationship he and his brother would always have. When things changed little bro began to hate big bro, really resent him and emotionally distance himself from him, oh the fun. This went on for about 7 years. Then big bro went off to college and magic occurred, their relationship went back to really appreciating each other again.

Do I think it was magic? Are you kidding me-no! I have to be honest here and say I worked really, really hard to provide them with tools to express themselves. I knew in the end their relationship was going to be what they made it to be and nothing I could possibly do would change that. But I wasn't going down without a fight either! I insisted they learn tools to express their feelings to each other the good, the bad, and the ugly. Being honest about their feelings is what I believe kept a thread of love alive inside of them. Those tools are what stopped permanent damage from occurring.

So in the end did it get easier, no. It got different. I smile and tear up when I see them together now. For us it was so worth it having a sibling.

BTW, how do I know the communications tools were a major part of what kept the thread of love and relationship alive between my sons? I know because my sister and I weren't that lucky!

[Angie]

Wow- thank you. I love this post and all the comments. All of them! They are so helpful. I am three weeks away from giving birth to #2, and my little one just turned 3 two days ago. I need all the help and advice I can get. I have been reading a couple of books- Your 3 Year Old- Friend or Enemy? (Hilarious title, couldn't resist) and From One Child to Two (very good- and helpful). I am glad to read such varied stories here- it really helps to know whatever I am going to go through is probably "normal"!

[MG]

@Alice: Have you asked your doctor about medicine for the little one's reflux? One of our sons had (has!) terrible reflux, and baby Prilosec (by prescription) has made our lives a lot better. Also, if you're formula-feeding, switching formula can sometimes work miracles.

I just finished reading Siblings without Rivalry and it seems like it will be really useful -- but I can't say from experience yet, because our little guys (twins) are only 11 months old (8 months adjusted).

[Susan]

@Cloud, thanks for your comments -- I follow your blog and have been interested in your transition to two children. It helps to see other WOH Moms making the transition. My DH is a true coparent also, but it just boggles the mind to think about how we would all get out the door in the morning.

[Sharon @proactiveparenting]

I wanted to add that it does get better too. As I re-read my post I realized I edited that part out. It really does get easier! You gel as a family, your gel as a parent, they gel as siblings. It does get easier.

[Julie]

Imagine this scene: I am home alone with my two kids (ages 4.5 and 14 months). It's late afternoon when tempers are ragged, close to #2's bedtime and #1 has been throwing up off and on all day. #1 is currently in bed with the Big Red Bowl next to him. #2 (newly mobile) is crying and wandering around the house because he wants to go outside-he hasn't been outside all day because of his big brother's barfing. Every now and then he wanders into the doorway to cry/yell at me and then wanders away again. I hear #2 in the kitchen opening and closing cupboards, crying/yelling, and I'm ping-ponging back and forth between the two of them. #1 is wailing that I CANNOT leave his side for one instant because he's going to throw up any minute (he was not kidding. He did). But #2 is in the kitchen banging around with something, crying crying crying. I get up to go make sure he's safe, but #1 yells "Here it comes!" and barfs into the bowl. At that moment, I hear a cupboard close loudly from the kitchen, and #2 is really wailing now. This was one of those times that was really hard while I was going through it, but despite how hard it was, I was also kind of watching myself from above and laughing my ass off at how freaking crazy it was.

What helps: arranging schedules so I get a little bit of alone time with each kid every day (#2 goes to bed super early so I can have an hour or two alone with #1). Doing things together - #1 loves to sit in the chair when I put #2 to bed. He will "read" him stories and hold his bottle. And mostly a sense of humor. The worse the situation, the better and funnier story it makes for later. I try to imagine telling those stories at the holidays when the boys are older to give them a clear idea of how hard it was to be on my own with them....I plan to tell them at Thanksgiving so they will have ample time to shop for a suitable Christmas gift. Pooling of money will be encouraged but not required.

And @hush...as usual, you rock.

[Alice]

@MG - Thank you for the comment. We're doing the 'least drug like' option now (under guidance of doc). I'm in New Zealand and you can buy OTC 'Infant Gaviscon' which puts a layer on top of the milk and lines the 'pipes'. We only give it at it's worst (4p-8a), and if that stops working we'll try Infacol (similar to Mylicon) and if that doesn't work then it will be Losec (Prilosec). Trying to minimise the drugs, but if I need to I will. So far Gaviscon will work if timed perfectly otherwise its 45mins of screaming until it seems to kick in and he has exhausted himself. At which point older daughter is trying to 'help' too, which is even more annoying, but I love that she is trying to help.

[Cloud]

@Susan- I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I've found that the morning routine isn't too bad. It is our evening routine that frankly kind of sucks. But even that is manageable.

[Catherine]

I love these posts - I have a 2 1/2 year-old girl and a 10-month-old girl who wakes up every hour. Everyone says it gets easier but honestly sometimes it feels like it's getting harder. #2's sleep is getting worse, and we all travel so much I fear that it will never resolve. I'm imagining that when breastfeeding is finished I will feel a little less torn in so many directions. I'm secretly wanting to wean but conflicted about that since #1 got it well into her second year. I'm feeling that I can't win no matter what; yikes! #1 loves her little sister but there are, shall I say, small moments of aggression which seem to be happening more and more. WHEN WILL IT GET EASIER, AND HOW WILL I KNOW? Ha ha.

[Christi]

My oldest was three when my youngest was born. I got really adept at nursing a baby while walking around. We watched a lot of Dora.

The fun part, as my second got older, was remembering all the similar things my first had done at that age that I'd already forgotten about. :-)

I wish I could remember when it started to get better. I know it got a lot better when my youngest was four and oldest seven. But I think it got quite a bit better before that.

I also made some mama friends through the local UU church and that helped tremendously.

Also, I had PPD with both, so I'm sure that colored the whole experience.

The thing about parenting is it always changes. I'm so much better at parenting elementary school age kids. I just love it. I wish I'd known that when I had a baby and toddler.

[hedra]

For us, better was right around 3 and a bit years old for whoever was youngest. And by that I mean REALLY better. Easing up, breathing room, having 15 minutes to talk after dinner without needing to help someone with something.

Now, at 12, 8, 5, and 5, it is amazing. My blogging has slowed way down because there's maybe one crisis a week, and half the time they're mine, not the kids'. New stuff is unusual. I have a bit of a handle on who they are, and on the process of evolving my parenting to meet where they're going. I still miss (ALL THE TIME), but I recover, and they're old enough to give me time and space to try again, and again.

About the good being way better than expected? Yes. Way way better. The whole thing is much bigger than I expected. There are intense periods, and rethinking, and I haven't managed to get to where I never ever yell. So the 'rolling with it' still goes on. Adapting, changing, remembering stuff I've forgotten (like, whoops, forgot to tell Mr B about "Effective Prudent True"... how'd THAT happen?).

And the energy is now also flowing back in my direction. Mr G is thinking about what I need, what would be good for me, encouraging me to do things I wouldn't usually think of doing, just because a) he thinks I'd be good at it, and b) because he'd like to see me try. It is only in flickers so far, but the adult-parent to adult-child relationship is developing. Sometimes he is stubborn 'I don't want to work out this problem with my brother, I just want him to GO AWAY' but sometimes he is 'hey, why don't you dance for performance? You should dance at the next event Aunt M has' and 'I like that you don't dance like someone your age' (cracked me up on that one, but I got the intention). And the intentions are starting to come out more skillfully.

It's good. It is really really good.

Caveat: My opinion today is colored by the fact that I am on vacation for a week, and the kids are all on vacation for a week also - but they're at my mom's. Nobody here but us chickens... :)

[hedra]

Oh, and on the 'each is different' thing - ours are all different in different ways. I don't have one easy, one hard, polar opposites (except I do have the introvert-extrovert polarity). It is way more complex than that. They're just each very THEM, just as if I'd pulled four random people off the street. How they express each emotion is different, how they express their needs is different... and yet, they're also very clearly related, and close.

They are kind of each their own planet. Maybe in the same solar system, but what drives each is unique.

Oh, and I only got one 'good sleeper' and one 'bad sleeper' but fortunately having four makes it clear that they're really just 'their own data point' - having two makes it easy to think in terms of opposites, good/bad, easy/hard. Having four makes it very clear that there is no such thing as even 'just one continuum'. Not that I think everyone should have more, just be aware of whether you think in terms of polarity/opposites (if one is strong for this area, what is the other? Opposite, also strong, related strong, what? Does that create a straight line, with one 'better' than the other?).

Oh, and we also both WOH for most of this time. This week is clearing out 12 years of accumulated clutter that we haven't had 'project time' for since the first was born... Which means I have to get back to work, now! :)

[hedra]

(clarifying - even on the Introvert/extrovert, the 'polarity' is really just range, style, type, and needs - but we do get conflict over that more than other things...)

[Rayne of Terror]

I disagree, but I have a 4 3/4 year gap between my first and second. Plus I get to stay home for a year with both boys. There have been times when I thought I was going to snap on the five year old, but they haven't lasted long. Having a five year old who can make his own sandwiches, get his own drinks, toilet independently, and endlessly entertain me with the talking, and talking, and talking. Plus he goes to preK 3 hours a day to see his buddies and I get a break where I can go to the gym or grocery shop with only the baby & I don't feel one whit bad about that.

I have to say from the mothering perspective a nearly 5 year gap is A OKAY.

[Jac]

This post has generally scared the crap out of me. Am in early pregnancy with number #2 and the morning sickness is killing me, making it difficult to deal with #1. We've tried for a while to get pregnant with #2 so it is planned, prepared for, budgeted for, etc. etc. And now I am freaked right out.

[Slim]

Fear not, Jac! Or fear, if you're so inclined. Who am I to tell you what to do? But I think what mothers with "yeah, it sucked" posts are saying what they are as empathy and caution, not as explanations of why we wish we hadn't done this.
We bear a message of "Brace yourself!" not "Run awaaaaaay!"
Also, the unbridled adorableness of siblings doting on each other more than compensates, even if you can't always feel the joy.

[Toni]

I was surprised by Moxie's post. So I have to add my data point. I love having two. It's not easy, but for me, much better than being pregnant with the second one. I was so EXHAUSTED, and couldn't deal with #1.
But I LOVE having two kids. The baby is only 4.5 months old, but he's our easy baby. the main key for us is that my husband is now home every night because it's so hard otherwise. I can put them both down on my own, but it's a bit chaotic; and that adds up on week days. We both WOH, and kids are 4 years apart. The oldest is our high-needs child, definitively "wild and wonderful", hyper-reactive, sensitive, creative, silly and craving attention. His behavior deteriorated at home for 3+ months after the birth of the baby, but now he's returning to his normal self. The baby is a peaceful, happy soul, who loves to observe and smile.
There are time when we forget to go grocery shopping on the weekend, or someone gets sick, or my husband's out of town for several day, and then that week is just about surviving. But then the next weekend, you try to reset, and start again.
What keeps me going is seeing the two kids together - it's just so wonderful. From the time the baby was born, he responded to my voice and his brother's. The big one is also fascinated with the little one and how he can influence him. I'm sure part of it is that he gets attention for being nice to his baby, but he does it even when he doesn't know I'm looking.
I hope I'm not jinxing things. :)

[Judy B]

These are all the thoughts I have when I consider trying for #2. Just carrying and delivering #1 was stressful enough, I don't know how I'd handle another pregnancy.

Then I have no idea how we could afford to put #2 into daycare. I honestly feel I could be fine being mom to a singleton....but....I grew up with lots of siblings and I know how important those relationships are, so am I being selfish if I don't have #2??? E is 22 months now, and I don't feel a lot of pressure to have #2, but I know I'll be fielding those questions soon enough.

[caramama]

I just wanted to chime back in and remind everyone of a few things.

-Things will get better! Then, they'll get worse. But then? They will get even better! It's all cyclical, and though we may be on different cycles than each other, things will cycle again.

-Most kids are surprisingly adaptive and resilient. It may take some time for them to adjust, and you may feel bad that one or both simply have to cry for longer than you want them to. But they will be okay. I seriously doubt any of us reading this site are neglectful parents--those are the parents who may cause serious issues for their kids. We parents who care but have to juggle are simply modeling how to juggle and helping our kids learn how to be part of the overall family and think of others' needs.

-You do what you have to do to get through, and the kids will be okay. We had to use the TV WAY too much while I was pregnant with our second born and while we were figuring out how to incorporate the baby with our schedule. But my daughter is fine and watches very little now.

-Aiming for a good, solid B is a great goal (credit to hedra!). That is 85% of the time doing things the way we think they should be done. And not 85% of the day, but over the life of our children! I was not my best parenting self while pregnant and depressed, but that was for a few months out of my child's life. Other months, I totally rock. I don't aim for 100% perfect parenting, cause that would probably bit me in the butt anyway and screw up a kid in another way entirely!

-The goal of this parenting gig is not a short term goal. You didn't get pregnant to be pregnant or have a baby to simply have a baby. You had/are having a child/children who will become your grown children. The first few years are especially hard, but there is pay off in the long run. Keep your eye on the long-term goals of raising children into adults!

Having one kid is hard. Having two kids is hard. I'm guessing having more is hard. But also? Incredible! Maybe right away, maybe not for 3 or 4 years. Your mileage may vary, but we are all going to get there!

[mo]

Hi - just going to pipe in with one thing that works for us but understanding that it may need some tweaking for folks with 2 singletons. We have boy twins. They just turned 5. The first year was increadibly difficult. We basically just got through it - felt like we were barely keeping our heads above water every day, most moments. After the 1 year mark, each month got better and better. Seeing the way my boys interact (most the time) just melts my heart. I absolutely love that. I know there is no guarantee that giving your child a sibling will mean they will love each other or be friends so that can't be the reason you do so. However, those moments when it does happen are so precious.

Anyway, what works for us is to have date night. But a different date night. Every Friday my husband takes a twin to a restaurant of the twins' choice and I take the other twin to a restaurant of his choice (can't be the same restaurant). The following Friday, we switch boys. It was hard at first - one boy really fought it and cried so hard to be separated but now it is our routine and I think those date nights are important for so many reasons. Gives each child their own one-on-one time, helps my husband and I to really learn how to have a conversation with our children, etc. We saw a twin speaker one time that said if you foster the individual that many time it is easier for them to be friends. We started this right around when the boys were 1 1/2 or 2 years old.

For those of you with 2 singletons, maybe the first date nights would be with the older child either switching off between parents while the other stays home with the baby or even better getting a sitter for the younger child and both parents taking the older child out (even something simple and short like ice cream instead of dinner would feel special). Once the younger gets old enough, then you could do the alternating dates with each parent.

[Melba]

Late to comment... but I'm in the middle of this too. Younger is 2 months, older is 2 3/4. It is hard hard hard. Younger is a crap sleeper. Last night she was up every hour. Older is in my room at 7:00 a.m. ready to go, and I've had only a few hours of sleep in 30 minute chunks. Ugh.

Anyway, I just want to address the whole debate on whether this is "negativity" or not. It's not. I love my children, I love being a mother, and I wouldn't change this for the world. But admitting that it is hard and that there are some moments at 3 a.m. when I question why the heck we did this is not being negative. It's being honest and real. Maybe there are some moms out there who never ever melt down and have moments where they wish they had their old life back, but I'm not one of them, and this is something that is harder to admit IRL than it is to admit here.

I think that people who have it easy just don't come here because they aren't desperately googling "my baby won't sleep" and "stick a fork in my eye" at 4 a.m. So the people who wind up here are the people who need to be here to know that they aren't the only mothers on the planet who find this parenting thing to be the hardest thing they've ever done.

I just don't think anyone should mistake that for feeling regret or for not liking motherhood. It's like hiking up a mountain. It's effing hard but everyone who does it is proud of it, brags about it, loves that they did it and wouldn't change that they did it. That's how I feel about my children.

Now I'm going to go stick a fork in my eye because I'm so freaking tired.

[Elaine]

@caramama "your mileage may vary" made me laugh out loud!

@hedra, hush, sharon, and cloud - thanks, as always. Love to read your posts.

We'll be deciding about whether to have #2 by the end of the year (truth be told, I'm late right now, but I digress). I've always figured that the first two years with 2 were the most physically demanding - but then less physically demanding after that because they have each other to play with. Now I'll have to ruminate about the mental and emotional demands.

I too feel as if I'd be cheating my son out of something important by denying him a sibling (I won the sibling lottery, for the most part). But I also want to make sure one more won't derail us. That would be far worse for him than being an only child.

At some point I would love to have a post on only children.

[hedra]

I'm also going to reiterate the 'two was easier than one' thing - though for the first six months of any new child's life, we just hunker and deal... but really, two was soooo much easier than the transition to one child. So don't panic. Just know that if you have a hard time with it, you can come back and not feel alone. If you love it, you're also not alone.

And I absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE having more than one child. One was HARD in many ways. One is always being the playmate, always doing this the first time, always scrambling to keep up, and wondering whether it was something I did, or not my fault (for anything). I eased up on myself a lot after two (I probably would have done so eventually with one, it just happened faster with two). And they really did (and do) enjoy each other. They got lucky in the sibling lottery, too, though I credit "Siblings Without Rivalry" for helping me keep from setting them up badly against each other.

One was hard. Two was hard, but only 1.25x as hard as 1 (easy by comparison, and sometimes 2 was .75x as hard as 1 - easier!). Four was hard (okay, twins is hard). But it is all good. Very very good.

[AmyinMotown]

Helllllooooo, if anyone is still reading. I was reading these and formulating my comment while my 2-year-old was tantruming on the floor (he was at the stage where I would just piss him off all he more if I tried to comfort him). Then, his 5-year-old big sister came out of the back room where she was watching TV, laid down with him and hugged him and kissed his cheek and soothed him. He calmed instantly. And THAT, my friends, is what makes the berzerk moments worth it. They're becoming very close, He's always loved her from birth, but she pretty much ignored him the first year (daughter was NOT happy about losing her position as queen of all she surveys--she was not only our only but my parents' only grandchild that lived nearby, so she got TONS of attention).

It's hard to divide your attention, and I found the second year harder than the first because I suddenly had to watch TWO mobile children. But these awesome moments remind me why we did it.

[Aggie]

Thank you, Moxie. And, thank you, everyone for providing much-needed data points, advice and humor. You have given me new hope in life and I love you for it.
I've been in the thick of it (2 under 2, no sleep, tandem nursing issues, crazy insane tantrums, food sensitivities, potty training Elder, you name it, it's happening to me right now) for five months now, and we don't know how we've managed to make it this far without forks in eyes (to steal a phrase from one of the comments above). When I emerge victorious on the other side, I'll be sure to return here and post my 2 cents.
For now, though, thanks. This helps. So. Much.

[MissHell]

I am 10 weeks pregnant with my second and have already been warned that life will really suck for the first year. I know that telling myself this will not prepare me for what is to come, according to all these posts, but still. Yikes. I keep thinking, if my mom and my sister could raise 3 kids, I can do this, too.

[pocha]

We decided to stop at one after a difficult pregnancy (hospital bed rest for 11 weeks) and a very strenuous first two years. Also, economically and emotionally, it is the right decision. I have this other relationship in my life -- my partnership with my husband -- that is, in its own way, needs as much nurturing and mindfulness as parenting does. So, it's all about balance.

That said, the stories about sibling love are quite touching and I *totally* get why people choose to have more than one.

The diversity of experiences on this blog is a gift.

[Gotham Mom]

I LOVE two kids! I think it is so much better than one. I think that is mostly for two reasons:

1) We spaced our kids almost 5 years apart on purpose.

2) My second child is so much easier than my first (see #1, we waited so long because I was expecting a super challenging kid again.

Having a second has brought out some wonderful qualities in our first child.

That said. We are done. No third for us.

[Rosie]

Moxie's OP is exactly why I am scared to death to have a second.

[MLR]

Ditto to what Rosie said. I feel like I barely survived the first year of #1 with my own sanity & my marriage intact. I emotionally want a second child, but intellectually am scared to death of what it will do to me and my family.

So I would love to hear more stories of why it's *worth* it to take the plunge for #2...???

[Kim]

Wow, I have to chime in here too. We have three girls, ages 5, 10.5, and 12. Our first rocked.my.world. Going from no kids to one was WAY harder to me than going from one kid to two (and that's even with them being 19 months apart and the second one being a 'surprise')... Looking back, I probably had mild PPD with the first, but by the time we had our third (and she was totally planned) I was completely honest with anyone who asked that I just don't really enjoy my babies until they are about 5 or 6 months old. I find those bleary first months just dreadful until they are well in the past... And I should add that my first was by FAR the 'easiest' baby (again, really only obvious two other babies and 12 years later!).

[Jessica]

For me, the worst part of adding #2 to our family was figuring out how divide my time/attention fairly without guilt. The absolute best advice I got about intergrating a second child into your life I read in a magazine at the OB's office at my 6-week followup for #2. After I read it, it became my mantra and got me through the whole first year, when things got markedly better. It is--

When both kids want something (not NEED something), always favor your older child over your baby. And make a big deal over the fact that you are making the baby WAIT.

This is very counter-intuitive, but it works. Your older child will notice and respond positiviely to the fact that you got her drink while telling to wait that you'll get him out of the swing in a minute. Your baby will never remember that he was allowed to fuss in the swing for a few minutes.

A need from either child trumps a want, of course, and there will be many, many, many times when the baby needs something and the older ones just want something. It all evens out. Following this advice helped me enormously because I had a clear rule to follow. It gave me permission to make the baby wait occasionally and it made a HUGE difference in my daughter's behavior/emotions. I also think it made her enjoy being the big sister a little bit more!

[Julie]

I agree with Hedra. For me, transitioning from 0-1 child was MUCH more difficult than transitioning from 1-2. With the second, I didn't have to adjust to fragmented sleep - my body went right back and knew what it was doing when the baby cried at 2 AM. It's just.....easier because I've already adjusted my life to incorporate kid hours and kid meals and kid needs.....so two is just more of the same minus a TON of anxiety about why he's not eating/sleeping/pooping. With my first, you could not fart in my house without me shooting daggers from my eyes for fear the baby would wake up. With the second...sorry pal. It's just loud here. If you want to sleep, you'd better just deal.

For those who have kids who are 12-24 months old and terrified to have a second but feel like you want one....just give it a little more time. It took at least 24 months before I wouldn't automatically think, "Better you than me" anytime anyone announced a pregnancy. But then suddenly....I was ready. And if you never feel like you're ready....one is perfectly fine too. Don't let people bully you into two if you just don't want two.

But yes. I love having two, despite how hard it is, the barfing incident I posted above is really just the funny/bad stuff. The funny/love stuff is much more, and better and amazing.

"Leap, and the net will appear."

[Snarky Mommy]

@AG -- you just wait until your child turns 3. You will know what the negativity is all about. Trust me.

I am in the midst of the chaos once again as I now have 4 yo boy, 2 yo girl and 4 mo girl and a husband who travels four days a week. I finally feel like I am holding my head above water, but just barely. The new baby is still eating multiple times overnight, but I just roll with it and feed her in bed and get some sleep.

Best advice I can give moms dealing with a new baby with older siblings is to get some help. Anyone who offers, take them up on it. If possible, get a mother's helper. I am a SAHM and the budget is tight, but we made it happen. I have a college girl who comes twice a week for two hours at dinner-bath-bedtime to give me another set of hands. Best $50 I spend a week.

Also, don't feel like you have to be equal. Your older will need you more for playing and reading and things like that. Your baby will need you for pure physical things like a food source. It's OK to tend to the older one while the baby cries -- the baby won't remember it.

Just hang in there. It's hard. But having a 2yo and a 4yo, I can tell you it gets so much easier when the youngest is about 18 mo. Then they can actually play together and interact and you can tell them work out (some) squabbles on their own.

[scharkey]

This is so great to read right now, since I have #1 (Jan 2009) with #2 on the way (September 2010(?)). I have a friend that went through this and she said the first year is hard, but it eases up after that. I need to talk to her again... I do like the advice about tending to #1 first. Hopefully, that will stick with me until September.

Thanks Moxie-ites for painting a realistic picture. Although I really won't know what I am in for until #2 gets out... #1 has been super easy, so my DH and I are worried.

[Amy W]

Very late to post... not sure anyone's still reading. I did want to post more positive thoughts to those thinking about #2, though. Our first (almost 2 1/2)was such a hard transition - he turned my life all upside down. He was also a very high needs baby - didn't sleep, always needed to be held. He got so much happier and easier when he was mobile by himself and is now a sweet, happy, very active boy.

#2 (5 mo.) is an easy-going, flexible boy who sleeps. (Well, he slept well until last month...) Going from 1 to 2 was so much easier for me than going from 0 to 1. And seeing how sweet my toddler is with his baby brother is like nothing else. I love having two kids!