Siblings (not) going to sleep in the same room

Happy Australia Day!

This is a problem I'm having, and I'm betting someone else is having similar problems, and I know some of you will have good suggestions:

I'm in a two-bedroom apartment, so my boys (who are almost-8 and 4.5) share a bedroom. This is fine, except that they have a veeery hard time falling asleep in the same room. They laugh together, or they fight, or they just talk and talk and talk. I sometimes come in every five minutes to tell them to be quiet, and it doesn't help. If I lie down with one of them they'll stop talking, but then I wake up in a puddle of my own drool at midnight. (It's just like having a 2-year-old again!)

If I let one of them fall asleep in my bed, it starts a major fight. If I let them both fall asleep in my bed, they don't fall asleep.

I am sure that part of the problem is the late schedule: By the time I get home from work and pick them up from their dad's and walk home and make dinner and they eat it, it's 8 o'clock. So they have half an hour before they have to put on PJs and brush their teeth and go to bed. But then they don't actually fall asleep until 9:15 or 9:30 or even 10:00 some nights because they just can't seem to settle down and stop interacting.

I know this isn't enough sleep for them, and that mornings would be better for everyone if they were getting more sleep. But I can't put them in separate rooms to fall asleep. Any ideas?

Comments

[Beth]

If you let one fall asleep in your bed, do they fight because they both want your bed? How about letting one fall asleep in your room, but on a makeshift bed/sleeping bag on the floor? If they both like the novelty of a sleeping bag (or whatever) you could let the one who is still in the boys' bedroom also have a sleeping bag on the floor. Or they take turns (1 week each?) of getting to fall asleep in your bed?

I don't think this is a particularly great solution but it's all I've got!

Or, how about a 10-15 minute 'chatting time' after you put them to bed and after that, it is 'real' lights out and you come and say a final good night (and if they keep talking then...? You partially close the door? - assuming they like the door open...dunno?)

Or, present the whole problem to them and ask THEM to brainstorm and come up with a solution that will work (is that in Siblings Without Rivalry or How to Talk?)
This is tough. Good luck

[Kate]

@Beth, maybe they don't think it's a problem :)

I can only put my two to sleep at the same time in the same room if one or both are so exhausted they will fall asleep within 2-3 minutes. If not I have the same problem as Moxie--a 5 year old and 3 year old who will not be asleep until 9 or later and are basket cases the next morning at 6:45.

99 out of 100 times my little one goes to sleep in my bed and we move him later. The big one goes to sleep in her bed. The only reason I can think of why there have been no objections to this on either side is because she insists on reading before going to sleep (and likes to keep the reading light after that) and he prefers to go to sleep in the dark.

[MLRH]

Could you be like the old lady whispering hush?
Rather than be in bed with one of them, put a chair in their room. Choose a good book to read one chapter from nightly ("Farmboy, fetch me that pitcher") while they are in bed and you're in the chair. Then, turn out the light and sit back down. Rule is when you say "hush" they hush. Lights out means eyes closed (a boarding school rule added the phrase, "Or I'll put YOUR lights out!").
By not getting on one of their beds you're defining it as their best time. If your chair isn't tooooo comfy you should avoid the drooling mommy mess.
FWIW, this is how my dad read to my brothers. While they were in separate rooms, they could talk with their doors open so he sat in the hall and read them comic books. The chattier younger brother always zonked out first.

[MLRH]

Bed time not best time.

[Jen R]

A bedtime version of a chore or potty training reward system? First one to fall asleep gets a sticker for the chart or some other reward in the morning maybe... either that or both get s reward if they are quiet ad fall asleep without too many reminders from you.

[Kelly]

I agree with MLRH's idea of a 15 minute wind-down of story-time. Mine're 5 and 3 and anytime we have them stay in the same room (visitors or travelling) they get a story and then it's lights out. They're young enough that we used to warn them if they're noisy we'll come up and smack so bums (we never did, the threat was enough) and now we just remind them to be quiet and they, generally, are. I know it's a very different situation than what you're in, but I think the story idea is a good one. A chapter or a few pages from a good book may do wonders to help them calm down enough to sleep.

[amanda]

Have their dad feed them dinner? Less stress for you when you get home and more wind down time before bed. If not dinner, then maybe more gross motor/outdoor activity with dad so they can be tired out by bedtime...works with my two y.o. have no idea if this still works later on though!

[Robin]

Hmmm ... I love the idea of "chatting time." Other ideas: is there any way to shorten your evening at all? I'm sure you're making fast dinners, but maybe if you could get one night ahead, you could prep dinner the night before so you're really ready to go and you just need to throw your prepared/chopped/etc. ingredients into a pan. I bet even a few more fun minutes before lights out would help. And maybe this is a silly idea, but I have a little baby right now so it's how I'm thinking - do you have a regular bedtime routine for them? I know we think of bedtime routines as baby stuff, but I think that even for adults, going through the same routine every night really primes you for going to sleep.

[Laura]

I also vote for dinner with their dad if possible. Then right into the bath/shower when they get home. If they can't do dinner at dad's, have them get into the bath/shower while you're fixing dinner. We do that around here all the time (boys ages 8 & 6) and it seems to calm them down and dinner goes more smoothly. Then stagger bedtime, having your older son read or do homework until younger son is asleep. My boys share a room and staggering bedtime has really worked for us. Good luck!

[Katie]

Take turns with extra snuggle time with you each night. For me it works this way older children get extra time playing while I get 18month son to bed (gives them a chance to play with things they can't normally do when toddler is around). Give the 4.5 son a bath while 7 daughter gets extra TV, Dad, or book time. I or husband read and snuggle with son 4.5 while 7 year old daughter is in the shower then 4.5 year old goes to bed while I snuggle and read with 7 year old.

[Cathy]

It sounds like they need some defrag before bed, and it's nice that they are having some time as brothers to just be silly and chit-chat. As adults, they'll probably look back on it fondly and it's the sort of thing that will help them continue to be friends even when they're grown ups.

El and La are 2 and 7 and share a room and bedtime. Last night El wanted a book right after lights out, so I gave her a choice of telling a story - Gingerbread Man, Three Bears or Three Pigs. She picked the Three Bears and when she made me get her a drink in the middle of it, the older one wanted me to keep going with the story. So, I'm with MLRH and Robin.

[Valerie]

My kids (6 and 4) have jack-n-jill-style adjoining bedrooms and sometimes sneak into each others rooms through the bathroom to have "club" after lights out. "Club" is basically staying up talking and getting silly. We've managed to stop this on school nights by allowing them to do it on weekends. We still go in and shut it down when it's getting too late, but at least there's not the added stress of getting up for school in the morning. Would your boys be able to save up their chatty time for the weekend? This would help with the interacting, although maybe not so much with the not-enough-time-to-wind-down part.

[MemeGRL]

We have our kids in separate bedrooms for the same reason. (In the grandparents' mountain house they share a room and giggle for ages but it's vacation so we don't care.)
If you/they need the separation, we have had luck with the birthday rule. One of our kids was born on an odd day, the other even. So when blowing out candles from dinner or other desirable activities, if they can't agree who goes first, we rely on the birthday rule and if it's odd, the odd-day boy gets the treat. That way, there's an objective thing to pin it to and there is less arguing (though not necessarily less grumbling). That might be a more fair way to figure out who gets to be in your bedroom. Not a good long term solution but might get you over a short term hump.

[Reese]

just a thought - what about a divider or something similar in their room? a curtain hanging between the two beds. a white noise machine so they can't hear each other well. out of sight, out of hearing, out of mind?

[C]

Long time lurker who has struggled mightily with dinner and bedtime after work.

I second the dinner with dad concept. I get home at 6:30. My children were just not able to wait that long to eat. They eat around 5:30 and have dessert with me while I eat a quick meal. I am guessing that you will be opposed to giving up "one more thing" that mother's are supposed to do but this would allow you to come home and chill out and have fun and not worry about yet another task. This might allow you to start winding down for bedtime earlier as well. There are only so many hours in the day.

[Slim]

"Bed time not best time."

True indeed.

Anyway, I know this pins you down somewhat, but could you sit in there with them? The rule is that the first one to talk is the one who stays in his bed, and the one who is being good and not talking talking talking OMG guys it is not party time -- whoops, sorry, flashback -- anyway, the one who is quiet gets to fall asleep in Mommy's bed.

Remember, too, that they are interacting when they're at their dad's, so it's not as though declaring quiet time after a half-hour of chattiness is squashing their relationship.

[obabe]

we have the same problem on the weekends, when the younger (4 year old) stays up later and we can put him and his 6 year old brother to bed at the same time. FINALLY, its working that if i tell them they can stay up as long as they want, in bed, but i dont hear them (no fighting, no yelling, no ANYTHING i can hear) then its fine. this weekend they actually fell asleep in the older ones bed together :)

during the week they have different bed times so its not an issue- 4 year old is 7ish and 6 year old is 8. could they have different bedtimes?

a friend with three girls who share a room (4,6,8) has them all go to bed at 7:30, and the oldest has a lamp and can read to herself. they also have the no noise rule, and magically it works. im always so impressed by getting three kids into bed in the same bedroom at the same time!

[dina]

I also vote for dinner with Dad...And, maybe: Stagger bedtimes by 15 minutes??? They can alternate who has to go in and settle first?

[Renee]

Delurking - my two are 5 and 3 1/2 and have been sharing a room for almost a year. It has NOT been fun.

Things that haven't worked:
1) Threats of any kind
2) Lights out (just cuz it is dark doesn't mean they can't yammer).
3) Vigils (I used to sit in the hall and read to myself and shoot venomous looks if anyone spoke - it would put me in a foul mood, eat up half my evening and made them resent me).
4) Letting someone sleep elsewhere. That ends up being a power struggle. My eldest figured out that the 'good' kid got to sleep in our bed and she would bait the little one. Took me a while to figure out that was what she was up to. It is easier not to have that as an option and teach them how to get along.

Things that usually work:
1) Sitting between their beds and reading a chapter of a chapter book. The drone of my voice seems to hypnotize the little one into a bit of a stupor and the story helps the big one slip into bedtime mode and they usually go to sleep pretty quickly after that.
2) Instructing the older one (the sleeper) to ignore the younger (the party animal) and pretend she is sleeping. One-sided conversations don't last long.
3) Playing a CD in a dark room, telling them to close their eyes and try to hear all the lyrics or imagine a person singing. Even the upbead Wow Wow Wubbzy CD will knock 'em out.

Sorry that was so long. I feel your pain.

[SarcastiCarrie]

I adore the idea of letting one kid have odd days and one kid have even days falling asleep in your bed...only problem is if you can't lift the 8-year old to put him back in his bed at your bedtime.

Off-Topic: Back in the day (70s and 80s), my older sister and I would argue over who got to sit in the front seat of the car (without a seat belt, of course). My dad solved the problem by assigning us odd/even days, and there was never a discussion about it after that (and boy, was it exciting to be out with him without my sister on "her" day and sit in the front seat).

[HereWeGoAJen]

How about one of those baby monitors that lets you listen to them but also works the other direction, so that you could tell them to be quiet over it? Then you could tell them to be quiet every single time they said anything but not have to stop what you were doing.

[Cynthia]

Ooh. Good topic for me. Not to hijack but I am due with my second child in a few months (late May), have a 2.5 year old and a two bedroom apartment we can't afford to upgrade.

The baby can sleep with us for 6+ months of course, but at what point can the kids (both boys) start to share? From reading this question, I fear the answer is "never"!

[Clare]

When my 2 have to share a room, I put them to bed about 15 minutes apart. In my case, I put the 2 yr old down first, since he chatters himself to sleep, and then the 6 yr old, who is pretty much out by the time his head hits the pillow. If they were older, like yours, I would alternate who goes to bed first. Say, Su/Tu/Thurs for one, M/W/F for the other, and let Saturday night be the night they go in together and can chatter to each other for a while (maybe put their light on a timer, and when it goes out, they have to be quiet?).

That way, you get some one on one time with each of them, and it eliminates the whispering issue.

[fahmi]

We are starting this same problem, as we have only two bedrooms, as well. Our older boy is 4, the younger is 1, and the younger one can't bear to be asleep when his favorite human is nearby. We've dealt with this with a staggered bedtime. The young one takes a bath while the older one is brushing his teeth. I then put the older one in the tub and take the young one to the room, read a story, sing a song, rock him and put him down to bed. After about 10 minutes, I go to the older one, who has been playing happily in the tub, and then give him story time in the living room, and we tiptoe into the bedroom. I sit at the door and shush them both for about 10 minutes, to get the older one on the way to sleep, and the younger one to zonk. They go to bed about 15-20 minutes apart, so the younger one is already half way to sleepland when his brother comes in. And the timing is not so far apart that one kids gets to stay up significantly later or anything.

I don't know how well this would work when they are older, but so far, it's what works for us.

[mia]

I would try to spend time in their room without actually laying down. Do something you need to do: e-mail, balance your check book or T-Tapp, or just read a good book. Yoga or stretching is great what with the relaxing vibes. The trick is to not want to be just about anywhere but there, cause that is so hard on you. And the kids feel it too.

[afc]

my boys are almost 11 & almost 8 and have shared a room by choice for a few years now. what i've found helps them absolutely settle down w/o a fuss & just go to sleep is allowing them BOTH to fall asleep in my bed (it's a king) while i am lying there reading. it seems quite bizarre, but i think they're comforted by my presence .... but it's a real b*tch to try & move the big boy (at over 100lbs, quite impossible, almost!).
when they are in their own room, it's just a constant reminder to shush / go to sleep. they read for 45-60 minutes before bed & then we do "lights out", and sometimes they sleep quickly (the younger almost always) and other times they chit chat for longer than i am comfortable.
truly, it seems to never get easier, the issues just morph into a variation on a theme.
i've contemplated the curtain divider but vetoed it, also did white noise / CD to varied results (one would whine it was too loud, the other like it).
i have also resorted to benadryl / melatonin, but have backed off the melatonin due to fears of future sterility for them. (read about a connection).
dunno, no good advice, just another mom in your similar predicament!

[Dawn]

My kids don't share a room (the little one would keep the big one awake, for sure), but I was going to suggest music or white noise, depending on how your kids listen (if they are active listeners to music, it won't help them sleep and you'll need white noise or ocean sounds or whatever).

Personally, I'd recommend something like the Pines of Rome or the Fountains of Rome by Respighi - pretty music, instrumental, but not so dramatic that it would keep me awake.

Good luck.

[Angela]

We have a 7.5 year old daughter and a 5 year old daughter who share a small room. We had this problem until we staggered bedtime by 30 minutes. The 5 year old is out like a light at 7:30 pm when there is no stimulation/excitement from the 7 year old keeping her up. I then read a longer story for 7 year old and she goes to bed at 8pm. There is no fighting about the older one getting to stay up longer. We tell the younger one, she needs more sleep and when she is older, she can stay up longer. She also wakes up earlier so it works out. Weekends, we sometimes let the have a slumber party where they can talk until they pass out.

[Jill in Atlanta]

First, I would suggest that they start the getting ready for bed process while you're prepping dinner. Let them eat in pj's and have their bookbags and school clothes all ready before dinner. This will make the after dinner less hurried. You might even stagger their times brushing teeth so they don't interact with each other much to get each other all wound up after dinner. Keep the mood very calm and quiet to start prepping for sleep.

Then, what I have done, to completely piss off my 5yo, is give him an different bedtime than his 8yo brother. He gets a story and a song while older brother does his independent reading for homework, and usually is too tired (or already sacked out) half an hour later to chat when his brother comes in. The special reading time was the consolation prize for going to bed earlier, but it seems to have worked. I really try to give him quality alone time with me while I lay in bed with him. Older brother is technically getting to stay up later, but honestly, he's getting more sleep now than he did with the earlier bedtime!

@Cynthia- they've shared a room since they were 1 & 4 quite successfully (usually!). I think the bond of sharing a room is worth the hassle it sometimes entails.

[B's Mom]

Great ideas here!

I also second the idea of eating dinner at the dad's, except you would have to be careful to eat yourself!!!

Can you let us know what works in the end? This however has reminded me that sleeping will be an issue of some sort for YEARS!!!

Cynthia: Check the archives for your question as I recall sometime about 8 months ago there was something on new baby 1 bedroom apartment and a 3 year old. I remember it because we too will be in that situation in a few months when we try to transition baby to sleeping in the same room as big brother!

[Rbelle]

I haven't read all the comments, so maybe it's been mentioned, but since your older is almost 8, is it possible he could get a half hour later bed time, so the little one's asleep by the time the older one goes to bed? I shared a room with my (much) older sister, and though I would often read until just before she came to bed if she accidentally left the light on, I knew I was "supposed" to be asleep before her, so I never tried to stay up talking once she came into the room.

I don't know if this would just create more sibling rivalry problems or not, but being older should come with some privileges (since it often comes with more responsibility), so maybe you could bribe the older one with 30 minutes of computer or video game time before bed if he promises to go to bed quietly and not wake his brother.

[Rbelle]

Ha! I now see Jill beat me to it - "special reading time" is a great way to sell it, IMHO.

[caramama]

I think the staggered bedtimes is such a great idea. After all, I remember having an earlier bedtime than my older brother and sister did, so it seems natural to me that the older child could have a slightly later bedtime.

[Trish]

Could they eat dinner at their dad's so that you have more time with them in the evenings to do a routine that will help them wind down? Could you do some type of reward system where they get a sticker for each night that you don't have to come in and tell them to go to sleep and when they get enough stickers, they get some type of prize?

[Bella]

I don't say this lightly since I offloaded dinner to my nanny (4 days / week) 5 months ago and it KILLED me with guilt and general feelings of wrong-ness. I'm over it now because everyone is happier with an earlier bedtime. So... I third and fourth the idea of trying to have dad do dinner time. That would get them to bed at an earlier bedtime. Your boys may be OVERTIRED by the time they get into bed and they me be running on pure adrenaline and generally feeling more hyper which may be keeping up the wild chatter sessions or even fighting sessions. If they got to bed about an hour earlier, they may wind down a lot faster. (But I get that that takes away quality time with you which is such tough decision. I hate, hate, hate that I get only 1.5 hours with my boys before bedtime).

Another thing that's worked with my boys (twin 4 year olds that have shared their room since birth) when we're traveling and things are a bit more exciting: put on a calm story on your CD player or download it to your ipod (audible.com has tons of kids stories) and play it at bedtime, but "only if you're quiet and listen carefully to the story." My kids LOVED these stories (it felt a little like they were allowed to watch t.v. at bedtime), I didn't have to stay in the room with them (I'd read them a story before this, but then leave) and because there wasn't a lot of interaction, they'd either be asleep by the end of the story or they'd have significantly mellowed out.

[blue]

Another room-sharing family here... Mine are 5 and 1. We've done the bath before dinner time as someone else mentioned, until the baby started going to bed a little later.

Now it's something like, dinner, bath together, baby gets out first to get put to bed. 5 YO has another hour to finish bath, snack, teeth, chapter book aloud, and then one of us sneaks into the bedroom to put her to bed. This usually works, but we never do it until the baby is definitely asleep.

I can't imagine getting home that late and still having to cook, clean up, bathe, etc, etc. I am voting for Dad feeding the kids, too. Either that or dropping them off at your house after you've gotten home and started cooking, etc.

Good luck--I don't envy that schedule!

[MLB]

Yet another vote for dinner at Dad's. The trade-off benefit for you could not only be more "quality" time at the end of the day, but have breakfast with them, which will be easier to pull off if they are not dragged out of bed in the morning. So if they go to bed earlier, they wake earlier. My husband often misses dinner during the week, but he eats breakfast with the kids 95% of the time and it's a great experience for the family.

[JCF]

@Cynthia--I have two kids (a 1 yo and a 2yo) sharing a bedroom out of necessity. We kept the baby in our room for about 7 months, at which point nobody was sleeping well, but I was so afraid to put both kids in one room and risk ruining everybody's sleep. We finally bit the bullet and did it, and it has been fairly easy. We keep a Pack and Play set up in our bedroom (there's really not room, but we squish it in) in case we need to move the baby in the middle of the night so the older one doesn't wake. We also use it for separate naps. They just don't nap well in the same room, but at night, they "chat" and giggle for a few minutes before falling asleep. I'm guessing we might run into issues when they're older (like Moxie's kids), but it is fine for now!

[paola]

My kids (5,3)have been sharing since the little one was 14 momths. I now believe that they could have started sharing waaaaaay ealier as DD's wails don't seem to bother DS. Their bed time's were different till DD was two (by one hour)but then it became near impossible to put her to bed earlier. Now, forget it.

My kids don't usually have problems keeping each other up talking at night as they are both exhausted. We DO have this problem at nap time on the weekends( yes the 5 year old still naps)if the kids are over-tired. The only thing that works is seperating them (DD stays in her bed, DS in ours). DD hates it, but at least she does sleep this way ( usually fusses/cries to sleep becasue she is pissed off with the sleeping arangements).

I have to add, that we have the room set out in such a way that the kids can't really bother each other. One is kind of hidden from the other ( unless she sits up that is). It helps that they can't see or touch each other.

Oh, and ...What, I forgot my beloved homeland's birthday?' Thanks for the reminder.

[Ellen]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but if you staying in the room helps, get an ereader (or kindle app on iphone!) and sit and
read in the dark room while they fall asleep. For me, 15-30 mins reading feels fine, but that long sitting and waiting really pisses me off!

[crescentgirl]

I'm going to read each post but here's how we resolved this at our house, with a suggestion for modifying it for you guys:

The older boy falls asleep in our bed while we put little one to bed in his bed. Little one spends more time awake, but big guy falls asleep right away. We have to wake him to pee anyway, after which he goes into his own bed. Everybody gets rest, the chatting is minimal.

You could alternate who gets your bed night to night, Big one night, Younger the next ... Or make it a reward: The boy who is quieter gets your bed.

Thank you for posting this!! We were pulling our hair out from Halloween to Christmas with the same issue and it's held up construction of the bunkbed we had planned! Hopefully the bunks won't throw a huge wrench into the plan we have going now.

[hush]

My kids are much younger than Moxie's, so really what do I know? But I'll opine anyway. ;) I'm wondering if perhaps the status quo is actually ok. For now anyway. As in, are the boys really, truly sleep-deprived in a life-impacting way due to this room sharing arrangement? Or is it possible that maybe they're actually getting enough sleep, but maybe it just doesn't seem that way to us grown ups who have read a lot of sleep books and who harbor certain notions that "kids need X hours of sleep per night at X ages"? Just wondering.

If you're seeing behavioral issues in the am - could it be due to something else besides missed sleep? Because what you've described - "they laugh together, or they fight, or they just talk and talk and talk".. honestly sounds pretty beautiful to me (don't laugh), and like a page out of a book of the best memories my DH has of childhood when he shared a room with his younger brother. Long winded way of saying what I think MrsHaley once said here about something only being a problem if the solution sucks more.

[crescentgirl]

PS _ Staggering bedtimes works for us too, but my husband travels so I came up w the other plan for when Im soloing ... it seems to work better.

Your guys, being older than mine, might do well w the staggering - if one can do without you reasonably well for a while.

[crescentgirl]

Sorry, last ps - @Cynthia - I have a friend whose two boys shared as soon as No. 2 came out of the crib and they have no problems.

I think a lot of this depends on personalities involved. My older would listen to stories attentively and alertly all night long. The younger, when bored, after 3 seconds, starts talking loudly about whatever he wants. Hijacker!

[Jamie]

I have this exact same problem. A six year old boy and a two and a half year old girl sharing a room, and they yak for an hour after going to bed. Forget about the staggered bedtime-- my two year old has stamina and will talk and talk for hours (even alone!) We have problems with the calling out for attention, getting out of bed, older one tormenting the younger one, etc. At the same time, it is quite adorable and an excellent bonding experience for both. Yes, they are exhausted in the morning (esp. the older one b/c he doesn't have the benefit of a nap-- the younger one usually makes up her sleep by taking a three hour nap during the day). But, I figure, it's his body and he ultimately has to decide when he is ready for sleep. We do have rules about no getting out of bed and not being too loud b/c they'll wake up their baby sister (in my room currently) but I think the talking is a normal part of the fun of sharing a room. And, my son does get a chance to sleep in on the weekends (usually wakes up about 1/2 an hour later on his own than he does for school, so I know he can't be too sleep deprived). I also know that my kids take after their parents-- we are late to bed, late to rise people, so I'm not surprised that my children also have this general inclination. I do like the listening to the CD idea as a way to refocus attention.

[Gothammom]

I have this problem with my 7mo and my 5 year old. The 5 year old talks in her sleep, she would shout out, then fall back to sleep, but in the process wake up the 7mo who would start screaming. His screaming would eventually wake up our 5 year old again, then she would be mad her brother woke her up. Ahhh NYC apartments!

So he sleeps in his crib in thier room. She falls asleep in our bed, both go to be at 8:00 - 8:30. Then when we go to be she is moved out to the living room. She sleeps great, baby sleeps great, we sleep great.

[regiemino]

I have the opposite problem - the little one can't get to sleep if the big one ISN'T there! My two girls share and it works well, for a variety of reasons. They are 7 and 3, the older one is an early riser, so she's really tired by bedtime and prefers to be left alone to get to sleep. She'll shush the little one. Also they're in bunks, so they can't see each other. If I try to but little one down earlier, if she's exhaused, she will not go to sleep until she hears her sister above her. Very cute, really.

[regiemino]

Should have used the preview button. Darn typos!

[Sybil]

Oh this is SO our problem! My 3 and 5 yo daughters will literally stay up until midnight unless we stay in the room with them and keep them quiet.

Thank you for tackling this. I am going to follow up on all of the responses with great interest!

[BluebirdMama aka @childbearing]

Wasn't able to read all comments as there were so many so forgive me if someone already suggested it:
After chatting time, which they seem to need given the structure of the evening, what about an audio book?
My son is 4 and he loves falling asleep listening to an audio book. This would also discourage talking as they'd miss the story?