Missing

I'm so sorry I've been MIA. I had a work trip, then 36 hours at home, then another work trip, which I'm still on.

Can we talk about the process of separation from your children? I've been thinking, while I've been away from my kids so much this week, about how when they were infants I couldn't imagine a time when I would ever be away from them.

Then they started to walk away from me. Then they started to run away from me. Then I realized they had emotional lives that were separate from mine.

It's a strange thing, to realize your kids have lives that you are not the lead character in. (I was particularly surprised to realize that my son had an extensive knowledge of and interest in Yankees baseball, which I don't care about at all.)

Is anyone else thinking about this? How do you manage the knowledge that they have to separate, and you need for them to separate, with this longing for the closeness you had and the primacy you had in their lives?

Comments

[Judy B]

I've been starting to browse through "Talk So Your Kids Will Listen..." and realized that I should really cherish the time I have now with my 16 month old, because before I know he'll be a free-thinking, independent man!

One word stood out in that book...
"Bittersweet"

Seems to sum up parenting!

[Irene]

Like Judy B, I'm in the thick of early toddlerhood (with an 18 month old) when my daughter's physical dependence on me is less than it was when she was an infant, but it seems like her psychological dependence is higher than ever (and it shows in the form of separation anxiety).

I do enjoy her affection, but right now, I'm really looking forward to gradually getting more separateness.

[lucee]

Just thinking of my own relationship with my mother helps me with this conundrum. I think its takes a really skilled parent to manage this issue.I have to say in our relationship, the more she gave me the space to have my independence and my emotional life; the more I was able to come to her to share. Having a son, I also use her as an example. She has a great relationship with her sons, because she never stifled them. My mother in law in contrast made her sons her mini husbands when her marriage broke down, and as a result they pulled away. She was jealous of every girl friend and every crush.
Its hard to feel their need for independence growing, but I'm more excited seeing my son become his own person, interested and delighted by things that are totally surprising to me. If I can continue to love him this way, then I think I will succeed as a parent, and I think or I hope, he'll seek me out when he needs me. That intense closeness will always be there, because its in me, where it should be. You can only give forward.

[Sarah]

My oldest started kindergarten this year and while she was in full day pre-K last year I am feeling out of the loop now with what goes on during the day with her. She has also had two sleepovers and another planned soon with good friends. She has taken camping and other trips without me and each one of these separation milestones gets easier. In fact, I am ready for the little one (2.5 years) to start school, etc, even though I know we have time before that happens because I feel like I am starting to get some breathing room. I love my kids, and love spending time with them but am appreciative of time apart and a new independence.

[Ellen]

This morning my 3.5 yr old asked me if, when she goes to high school, could I come with her. When I told her that when she is a teenager she won't want me to come with her, she thought that was the funniest thing ever.

[suzanne]

"How do you manage the knowledge that they have to separate, and you need for them to separate, with this longing for the closeness you had and the primacy you had in their lives?"

Lalalalalalalala...what? I can't hear you!

Definitely a double-edged sword. On one hand, I can't imagine being seperated from my 16-month-old guy and I love the closeness we have now. But on the other hand, I long for the day when I can have a bit more alone time a few times a week.

The only thing I keep reminding myself is that I usually get wistful for behaviours and abilities he is about to outgrow, and worry that I will miss them (and him at that age). But then he can do the 'new thing' and usually that brings something new and fun and nice to our relationship. It's just that it's different than the old. So much rapid change is hard! But then, before I know it, I'm used to the new thing and can't imagine how it was the old way. (Switching from SAHM to daycare & working for example). Not to say that I don't miss some things. But usually there are enough new cool things, that weren't possible before, to replace the old cool things. I must admit that I'm very curious to see where my little guy's interests will develop. Of course, I hope we can share a lot of things, but I also hope he has some interests that are completely different from mine or his father's.

And, I'm assuming that by the teenage years, you WANT, perhaps NEED some of that seperation :).

[hedra]

I actually love it.

My mom's perspective is that you start out thinking that by being the mom, you've somehow earned the right to be permanently IN your child's life.

But not so - you have to earn it the rest of your life, too. Especially once they're grown. Everyone can make a free choice to cut you out. It isn't that you need to suck up, but that the relationship is ongoing and ever-changing, and you've got to put up on your end if you want them to put up on theirs. And even that's not a guarantee - you only get to choose your side of it.

Looking at it that way, it's all opportunity. I don't get to rest on my laurels, but I also don't get stuck resting on my laurels. As a result, I get to have a new relationship with my children at each age.

Bittersweet? Sure. I don't want to forget to be in the Now so I can enjoy the level they're at. But I adore the next level, too. Watching them become themselves, damn cool stuff.

Granted, I love the older kid stuff so much, it's hard not to be okay with it. Watching Mr G and ep work together to pull Mr G out of a steep dive on his Math grade, knowing that I don't know everything that is going on but knowing that they'll get there... cool stuff.

What's even more cool (IMHO) is watching my kids become aware that *I* have a life and friendships and work that engages me, and seeing them respond to the fact that they don't know everything about ME, either. That Mr G likes to hear work stories at dinner, that totally rocks. Even Mr B's complaint that my work doesn't 'show' the way ep's does (I mean, you can drive by and walk around in/on the stuff ep has designed or drawn or worked on) means he's paying attention, has noticed that work is not just 'some place I go' but 'something I do and produce' (even if he can't quite figure out what it is I create...). Also very cool.

Separate but involved in a relationship that is constantly evolving and growing? I can't imagine better than that. But that's me.

Okay, so the early stages of the transition are kind of weird and ouchy as the emotional umbilical cord gets attenuated - but once you get used to that space, it is fabulous space. :)

[mom2boys]

I think about it all the time. Hedra has said before that it's not the relationship in the first few years that is the end all be all (not her words but i think that was the gist of it) but the future adult relationship you are laying the ground work for now. I can understand that but I can't quite emotionally grasp it. I love love love the way he is with me now at 2. And I know it's going to slowly go away and never come back. And I know that's the way it is supposed to be but truthfully I think it sucks.

[mom2boys]

ha - see :)

[hedra]

@mom2boys - As much as I loved the passionate little-boy mama-love, I love the later stages MORE. I'm glad I had those times with them, but I wouldn't go back. This is so much more. More richness, more complexity, more depth.

And I get touch-downs into the earlier stages still, too. They're just shorter moments rather than long days.

[hedra]

heh. Simulposting with mom2boys...

All transitions come with discomfort and doubt, struggling and reaching out and asking for help, feeling like we can't do it, even though it is inevitable.

This is one of those stage transitions.

[mom2boys]

@hedra - The grown-up part of me wants be able to cultivate the sort of relationship that builds trust and love based on mutual respect and affection rather than continue forever with this overwhleming need for me that he has now. Part of the reluctance is fear of an inability to do that. But I didn't know how to this part either so there's hope that I'll continue to figure it out as we go.

[AnotherAmy]

(I've been lurking but haven't posted anything before...but this one hit home...)

I've been thinking about this a lot recently too, both because of current situation and what I know is coming down the road. My son is 18 months and we have a second on the way. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the baby stage. Give me a little one to cuddle and I'm a happy woman. Even better when that little one is my own dear son and wants no one in the world more than me!

But now we're into the toddler stage, and he's starting to exert his own will in very definite ways, and I'm finding it is for me much more emotionally exhausting than the baby stage. And it actually feels pretty good to walk out the door and leave him with someone else for awhile. And yet I feel conflicted that more and more often it feels good to be away from him a bit.

And then...next year, when the new baby is about 6 months old...I'll be going back to work full time. I wanted part-time, but due to hubby's job changing, it looks like it will need to be full-time. And I am already mourning the loss of physical closeness with my little ones who will still be so young. Somehow, mostly unconsciously, I always imagined I'd be home with them for longer. I'm not ready to give up the day-to-day being-with that fills our life right now. (This is when my husband reminds me that it is still months away and I have time to get used to this idea...but...I can see it coming...)

And yet...sometimes I watch other mamas with their older kiddos, who can feed themselves and carry on real conversations....and I think that looks really great too, and I can't wait for my guys to have a little more autonomy. Can't wait to see who they are and will become. Can't wait to really get to know them as people, and maybe even have them get to know me as a person beyond just mom. Cool stuff too. But still a little sad, that they won't want to just curl up on my lap for snuggles anymore. Sigh.

[Elaine]

At least once a day I seize a moment to cuddle and snuggle my 17 month old and cover him with kisses because I know there will come a day I won't be able to. At the same time I wonder what interesting cool things will take that space.

What worries me is attending the space - giving him enough space while working for a strong bond at the same time.

I feel like I'm flying without a net with this mother/son thing. I'm always looking for a good model to shoot for - as far as adult sons and mothers go. My mom and brother loved one another very much but weren't very close. One of my grandmothers spoiled her only son rotten and basically ruined any chance he had at happiness in adulthood. My other grandmother expected her son to fill in where her abusive cheating husband fell short.

Truth is I don't know many men that have close-yet-healthy relationships with their mothers. Or maybe I do but I'm not recognizing it.

[AmyInAustin]

The first inkling of what was to come in terms of "emotional lives that were seperate from mine" happened just a little while ago, when The Boy (3.5) and The Girl (1.5) started to magically crack each other up. For no apparent reason. Makes me smile just thinking about it. That was the first REAL time that I thought "wow. They Are Not Me." Also I realized that they are going to have a relationship with each other, on their own terms. It's pretty much out of my control. Weird feeling. Powerless, yet liberating (and exciting!). Seems like maybe I should have come to that conclusion earlier, but there you have it. Better late than never.

[Tzipporah]

Thank G-d they separate!

For me, the clingy-needy-always-in-my-face baby and toddler were a nightmare.

I love my son, but just like with my husband, I love him more when I've had a berak from him to do things I like to do.

[AmeliaV]

Great post! I don't want to hijack it, but I have a really literal question related to it: I have to go away for about five days for work in December. Am kind of freaking out because it seems like so long to be away from my 14 mo. old. (I've never been gone overnight before). Will she still want to nurse when i come back? Will she remember me?
The funny thing is I'm sure she'll be fine. I'm actually worried about how *I'll* sleep through the night without her cuddled next to me (sniff) and otherwise deal with her absence.

[hedra]

@AmeliaV, I did the same (4 days, I think) when Mr G was 15 months. I came home with the flu, felt AWFUL, and if I'd had my way, I'd have gone straight to bed - but he wanted to nurse. And that ended up being one of the most amazing moments (like the stuff we're talking about not wanting to lose in this post) - he climbed up in my lap, gazed at me for a moment, patted my cheek gently, and said, "Mama buu" (buu was his word for beautiful - usually reserved for blue skies and paintings). And then he settled down for a cuddle and Yala.

Yeah.

I pumped and dumped while I was gone to keep my supply up. I thought he'd maybe wean, but wanted to give him a chance not to. He nursed for more than another YEAR, so I guess I needn't have worried!

Calling in to his daycare at lunch and also calling each evening was useful. He didn't want to talk to me (not good on phones yet), but hearing about his day was good for my sanity. :)

[Eva]

Now that I'm a mom of two, I remember when I was at college and my mom would call and tell me that she missed me and I would throw out a casual, "I miss you, too". It's only now that I really get how much more she missed me than I missed her, even though we've always been very close. It's such a push-pull, as I long for the day when my kids won't cling to me and and yet mourn for the perceived loss of intimacy that comes with it. It's amazing to me that I have to chase down my almost-five year old to get a kiss in the morning once we get to school. He's also the same child who will still lie screaming and sobbing on the floor wanting nothing else than to have me acknowledge his hurt over the littlest thing. I feel like he's on the brink of a major breakthrough towards independence and rational thought and I mourn his babyhood, but couldn't be more ready for change.

[MrsHaley]

This topic hits me right in the gut. POW.

I struggle all the time with being ok with their impending independence (@ 1 and almost-3). It's not so much that I'm not celebrating their developing personhood, it's more that I worry (endlessly, obsessively) that I am not appreciating Who They Are Today. I agonize that I'm not suitably immersed in today's stages and quirks and skills ... and that I will looooong to turn back time and re-experience these baby-toddler days.

Except.

I feel like each day is so much about *survival* that I can't manage to immerse myself in them. I mean, it's not that my time is particularly scattered -- I'm a SAHM so it's not like I'm missing any time with them -- it's more like life continues to move on and we all move on with it. Suddenly the baby is 1 year old and suddenly the toddler has opinions and preferences and rollercoaster emotions ... where did my infants go? Everybody needs to be fed (3++ times a day! Gah!) and changed and washed and dressed and one day I'm going to turn around to wipe a bummy and they're going to be 16 and almost gone and I'm going to have MISSED IT.

But I'm RIGHT. HERE. ALL. THE. TIME. Why am I so afraid I'll miss it? Why do I want to stop time right now to make sure I don't? Nobody gets to do that, so how do I come to terms with it?

[sarah]

AmeliaV - I went away for a week when my son was 11 months (DH won a free trip to mexico, so we went). DS was no longer breastfeeding, so that was no an issue, but I wanted to assure you that he did remember me after a week! He gave me a bit of a cold shoulder for a day, and then was very CLOSE for a long time after that, not really wanting me to leave his side. In any case, it was very good for me to get away and be an independent woman for a week - I missed him SO much, but it strengthened vs weakened our bond. FWIW, he's 2.5 now and DH and I make a point of going away just the two of us several times a year. It's great for DS's relationship with his grandparents, and fabulous for our marriage. Just a weekend away here and there, but what fun we have!

[AmeliaV]

@hedra and @sarah, thanks so much for the reassurance!

[Erika]

@MrsHaley - did I write your post? I could have. I feel exactly the same way. Also a SAHM wanting to enjoy and savor every step of the way. That's the big-picture view. But the day-to-day? I just want to make it through to bedtime when I get to take a breather! I keep reminding myself that the photographs you see in the diaper ads in magazines aren't what I should be waiting for. The boring day-to-day stuff I do with C are the memories I'll have to enjoy when she's her own independent person some day.

[suzanne]

@MrsHaley - I know EXACTLY what you mean. We get so caught up in the day to day things that need to get done, it's amazing how time flies and, it's hard not to get caught in the loop of routines, and it feels like so much time is spent with our necks just above the water.

I think it's all a signal (for me anyway) that some things need simplifying or I need more help, or we haven't scheduled enough (any?) JUST PLAY time in, etc. In other words, when I'm most stressed out about missing my little guy's 'just being', is usually when I'm over scheduled, don't have enough help from DH, or, we need more of a routine for the regular less-fun stuff so it becomes easier and I can carve out 5 mins here or 10 mins there.

The other trick, of course, is to remember to take those moments - sometimes 30 seconds does the trick. I was late for work yesterday am, trying to get DS ready for daycare & both of us out the door. I was brushing my teeth while peering out checking on DS who was in the living room, when I noticed he was standing. Standing! All by himself! For a very long time! I kept feeling like I should just continue on with the teeth brushing (& miss witnessing the standing) because he was occupied, not into any trouble, and I was already late. But what? To gain one minute? Two minutes? I decided to watch DS from afar instead. It was a great moment. One I'll remember for a long time.

Of course, it's not to say there isn't a struggle when those situations present themselves. Sometimes I just want to be on time/have less fuss/etc. Period. But I keep trying to remind myself to take the time. Just to witness. Or to take a photo. Or to record a thought or two (like this blog...brilliant for busy parents! http://36words.typepad.com/habit/ )

It's a constant struggle for me as I'm very prone to over-schedule and want to get a lot done. But, I find taking the time when I'm most stressed about missing everything (regardless of my commitments) is the best antidote.

[TodayWendy]

I'm pretty sure this is a personality thing. I'm so excited watching my almost 3 yo getting more and more independent. Developing her own personality. I'm finding it to be the most fascinating and amazing thing about parenting so far, just watching her become her own person - and if I've done my job right, a person who doesn't need me around all that much.

I've had a ton of trouble coping with the baby phase, but it is getting so much easier and more fulfilling the more independent she gets.

[Linda]

My oldest children are only five, but I am thoroughly enjoying the start of their independence with full-day school. At first it was just weird - they weren't with me all day, they were making friends and having experiences that I knew little about . . . it was disconcerting. I was constantly wondering, "What are they doing now? NOW? NOW?!" I wanted their teachers to have twitter feeds!

We've fallen into a rhythm, though, and I still get teacher/school communication and volunteer in their classes - it gives me a glimpse into their world. But they're taking the first major steps away from me and I am relishing it. I love our conversations and their analysis of various topics, I love how they feed/clothe/toilet themselves, I love how mobile they are and how little I need to lug around if we're out and about.

It's fun watching the people they're turning into and how they experience life. I sometimes feel nostalgic for their baby/toddler/preschooler times, but overall, I'm enjoying the budding separation and independence. I couldn't imagine it when they were younger and so much more helpless, but they are both such industrious people in a positive environment. It's easier than I thought to begin to let them go. (Of course, I got a little teary just writing that. I'm not a ROBOT, for Pete's sake.)

I don't think I'd feel like this if I was sending them into a situation that wasn't comfortable or if I still saw them as helpless or vulnerable, like an infant. It didn't feel right for me to have this dramatic of a separation from them until now.

[After Words]

My kids are still young (2 and 4) and often their dependence on me is stifling. Especially in the middle of the night.

Recently, we've been mulling over what to do for the 4 year old's school next year--should he go on to kindergarten (and be one of the youngest boys in his class) or should he do a year of pre-k at his pre-school. I'm not sure he's ready for the independence of kindergarten, but what surprises me is how much I'm not sure I'm ready for it.

[electriclady]

I love this discussion. As the daughter of a smothering, codependent mom, I've spent a lot of time thinking about cultivating independence in my own daughter. I've always said that my goal as a parent is to prepare my child to leave me. I want her to feel exhilarated at each new phase of freedom and independence (even though I'll be hurting every step she takes away!), and secure enough in herself and in our love that she *wants* to come back to us rather than feeling like she *has* to.

It helps that, as others have said, I hated the newborn/infant stage and am loving the growing independence of my toddler girl (2.5). I love her becoming her own person with her own thoughts and can't wait to see what she'll be like as she gets older. That said, I know I'll miss all the snuggles...

[hedra]

@MrsHaley and Erika - my mom talking through me again, here...

My mom LOVES and is good at the daily immersion, and yet at the same time she had exactly the same struggle. I can be home with them all day, and it is running from pillar to post, scramble, feed, dress, get chores done (minimally and never to the old standards), survive survive survive.

Her rule was that she only needed ONE good moment from each day. Just one. She said there were times that she'd keep us up past bedtime just to get that one moment, because it had NOT happened before then! But one and then one and then one and then one became a string of pearls.

This is the same reason I take video of dinner time and playing in the yard (just set up the camera and let it roll, not stay behind it), because I don't necessarily just want the big events (birthdays and Christmas) - I want daily life captured, at least a glimpse of it, grousing and complaining and laughing and arguing and all of it. Just now and then, not the perfect days, just days.

I have a very long memory, going way back into childhood, and there are only a few instances that are tied straight to my parents. I talk about those more here, because we're talking parenting - the conversation where my mom told me that she loved me more than I loved her, and that was okay and right, and I'd maybe understand some day but I was not to worry about it, that kind of thing.

But most of the memories are of discoveries, the science-minded-ness of me (putting the kittens in the half-inch-deep puddle to see if they could swim... and discovering instead that kittens don't like wet paws; realizing that I could test the theories my sisters gave me and I didn't have to just believe them when they said if I put my fingers in the pond we walked past the goldfish would bite my fingers; watching an ant hill at work for hours; watching clouds form in the sky)... a few traumas stand out, too - nearly drowning kind of stuck in my memory, actually about equal with me accidentally pouring the entire container of salt on my dinner - my FOOD was ruined! (anyone who really knows me knows how much I have a passion for food.)

But mostly, yeah, the daily stuff. My mom grumping because the laundry was everywhere, her teaching me to cook, sitting at the table eating spaghetti with my hands (in a high chair), playing tag in the yard with my sibs, dressing up for a party, watching my mom at the sewing machine (magic!), learning to weed around the iris on the back hill, racing up and down the hill of sand with my Tonka trucks while the older kids and parents prepped the back patio we were laying in, the feel of sheep wool on the lambs we raised, picking wildflowers in the vacant lot and bringing them to my mom, coloring for hours, using up bandaids by the boxload (another boo-boo???), my mom telling me to look up at the owl in the bathtub ceiling so she could rinse my hair without it getting in my eyes (and me really believing that I could see one there), my mom and my then-teenage sister fighting over chores not done (and then finding a solution over time - which involved my sister getting me to do her chores in exchange for her teaching me to dance), me standing on my dad's lap petting his hair down flat (he had a military buzz cut, and he wanted it to stand up, I wanted it to be flat because it was softer that way), lying on the grass with my siblings and step-dad looking at clouds, deciding to run away from home because my MEAN old MOM kept making me clean my room (the horrors!), helping my step-dad install a new toilet, crying because I'd broken a lamp and knew I was in big trouble (but having my little brother go beg for clemency on my behalf because saw it happen and knew it was an accident), pretending to nap when it was nap time by covering my head with a blanket...

There was good, bad, indifferent, all in there, all part of my life. The thing with being the mom is you can see time slipping by. As the kid, though, it is life, every day. Good, bad, indifferent, it is what it is - having had no point of comparison, my life was fine with me - neither perfect nor awful, just life, and as good as I felt any particular day. If my mom was grumpy, she was. It wasn't like life didn't have that stuff, or was supposed to be perfect every day. It was just each day what it was.

Not sure if that helps, really. But I think for me, it is reassuring to know that this IS the life my kids have, it is theirs, and my mental comparison between what I want their lives to be like and what they ARE like is utterly irrelevant to them. They are the ones living it, and it's okay.

[mom2boys]

@MrsHaley - I write down as much as I can. Taking the time to even jot down a paragraph of a cute or frustrating part of our lives makes me slow down and appreciate the moments for what they are - regardless of how overwhelmed I may have been at the time. Your thoughts as a stay at home mom - there all the time but feeling like you can't catch your breath to appreciate it - was a wow for me because I struggle so much with being gone all day and some nights but because of that I realize I'm better with him when I do see him and am able to appreciate the actual time spent together. It wasn't like that in the beginning though. The first year and a half was so, so hard - there were very few moments other than holding him in the middle of the night after he had finally (FINALLY!) fallen asleep that I remember really appreciating him. That makes me a little sad still.

[Amy]

My uncle told me one time that it was our job as parents to "prepare them for the world." My mind always goes back to that phrase when I start dreading them growing up or try to shelter them.

[paola]

@Ellen,

Thatś really cute. My 4.5 year old asked me if I can buy him a jumper when he starts work. Sure, that i can do.

@MrsHaley

That was me until 6 months or so ago (mine are 2.5 and 4.5), although I only had one on my hands most days. Now, especially if the both are home together, they leave me to my own business and run off to play, so they give me some space to observe (and love them)from afar. Oh and surf the net!. But there are always sick days, where everyone reverts back to being an 18 month old. Including me.

[toomuchstrong]

Just like Hedra, I am really excited to see how my and my husband's relationship with our children develop over time. My children are still little; one infant and one toddler, but my toddler is getting to the point of becoming her own person. It is very cool to watch. In spite of her growing independence, she is still very much into cuddling especially since our little man was born. So, as of now, I have not experienced much pulling-away, but when it does start happening, I will be OK with it. It may take me a few days of weepiness, but knowing myself, I will then rapidly realize the joy of getting a bit more of myself back.

[mo]

My boys are 4 1/2 and are in their first year of preschool (started late Sept). They've done great with the transition (and so have I) but the hardest part for me is the lack on knowing about their whole day. Before, I get details from the Nanny and then I could take those details to help me with questions for the boys. Now, I have to guess and I realized how little I know of their day-to-day activities while they are in school. They are making friends with child I don't know. How crazy is that but at the same time how great... I'm thrilled to see that they are doing well with the social aspect (or at least I believe they are from the limited info I have so far).

We've had conversations about how they will one day move out when they are older and they keep asking why and then can they come home for dinner (which makes my heart so happy because that means they like my cooking and family dinners are now such a part of their day with us). One has decided he will just move next door :)

That said, I'm not a huge fan of the infant stage... but I'm so loving the 4 year stage and really want things to slow down. I think that is where the changes are hard - they show you time is flying by.

[Cathy]

At the beginning of October I was away from the girls for the longest time ever, since they were born. First I went to camping training for Girl Scouts (gone for 36 hours?) then went to a conference later that week (gone for 4 days, with a 3 hour time difference). It was the first time I flew in 7 years without having to wait for a stroller at the bottom of the jetway. It freaked me out.

One thing - I remembered how much I liked doing those things (camping with Girl Scouts and flying someplace by myself), which was nice. The other thing was that I'm so used to being the one to take care of the girls, that I had trouble believing that they would be OK with their dad, without me, for several days. Turns out they did OK. I was pretty homesick though.

I came home with a "dogpile on mama" greeting fantasy that didn't really happen, but no biggy.

With our 15 year old....I've also been thinking about Hedra & Mom2Boys idea about parenting in a way that as the kids grow up they'll want to come back and see you for holidays and stuff (and at the same time, brave and independent enough to want to travel abroad, etc.) The movie and book, "The Prizewinner of Defiant, Ohio" is what's made that point before - they had like 8 or 10 kids who all went off to college and never came home until after the dad died.

[MG]

I have a hard time viewing my 5 year old as an independant being. I know. It is deeply unhealthy. But I worry that she is fated to endure the same difficulties I had in elementary school making friends, etc. It doesn't help that she looks exactly like a smaller me and seems to have a very very similar personality as mine.

I basically have to often remind myself that she is on her own journey and the best I can do is to take on a good supporting role. But it is very hard for me to actually do that and step back.

[hedra]

At 5, it is hard to see them as REALLY independent beings (unless they have older sibs) - but at 8 or 9? Much easier. They'll push it until someone caves on that point. And they want to push it. :)

Interesting intercultural comment - in some Asian cultures, it is assumed that children are automatically programmed/driven to independence, and the parent's job is to make sure they understand how to be in relationship and community, pushing the DEPENDENCE, with the assumption that of course the child will always strive for the independent route if you don't help them learn that they must stay connected.

The probable truth is that we're all evolved for both dependence and independence to some degree or other, around some balance point. While I love the independence, I also love the inter-relationship, and I count on me having to set them up for BOTH, and them also being driven to BOTH biologically. My job is more about the style and technique than the need.

[enu]

I love seeing my kids follow their own paths. It doesn't mean we're not as close, just that they're doing what they're meant to be doing.

[Cloud]

Interesting post and comments. Since I'm home with a 2 week old (yes- for anyone who doesn't already know, I FINALLY had the baby) and my older daughter is 2.5 years old- I'm a little ways away from living this. I do realize that there are precious moments occurring that will never come again, etc. But mostly, I'm in survival mode right now.

Since my older daughter goes to day care, she already has a bit of her life that doesn't have me in it. This summer, several of us from day care arranged a trip to the beach. It was a blast to see the kids playing with their friends from day care- we got a little peak into their "non-parent" world.

Also, Hubby and I have been taking weekends away periodically since my older daughter was about 6 months old. I recommend it highly, if you have willing grandparents to watch the kids. In our experience, it has been great for everyone.

[sfsaf]

@Mrs. Haley...I'm with all of you who responded to this one....so much so that I'm considering having another child because I feel like I "missed" so much of my sons' first 20 months because I was so frantic/stressed/depressed...but I don't think that's the solution. Probably the opposite.

Someone did give me some advice to take a lot of video -- more so than stil pics. I already look back at the video and barely recognize the little blob of a beautiful baby. That hurts. But then I try and be "present" and remember all that is to come.

[Cloud]

I forgot something I was going to say: @MrsHaley- one thing I do that helps me feel a little less like the precious bits are flying past me unnoticed is write down 3-5 of my favorite things from each time period. For instance, for my second daughter's newborn phase, I have written down that I love how she grabs onto my finger when she nurses. For my older daughter's 2.5-3 year old phase, I have written down that I love how she can tell us stories and give us directions with all the events in the correct sequence ("First you get the milk from the 'fridgerator. Then you bring it to the table. I will hold my glass. And you will pour milk into my glass."). I write these things in the same notebook I use for questions for doctors, etc- my intention is to eventually do a scrapbook and write my notes in that, but even if that never happens, I'll still have my notes. Its not perfect- I still feel like I'm going to blink and wonder where my babies went and who the teenagers rolling their eyes at me are- but it doesn't take much time, and I recently got a huge kick out of reading what I had written for the older daughter's baby periods.

[anatomist]

this is exactly the line of thought that i have been mulling over lately. i just started school, so my son is in preschool and with my mother for a good portion of the day, and i miss him. despite the fact that i was not cut out for stay-at-home-momhood, and wanted my own separate emotional life, i feel like now that he has his own world, i am losing a limb. we have spent all our time together for the last 2 years and now i don't know what his favorite thing to do at school is. (he isn't terribly verbal yet so it doesn't help that he can't tell me). in any case, it is sort of breaking my heart.

[Sharon aka Mommie Mentor]

I'm sure my kids are older than yours, so I guess I have some wisdom on this one.

I didn't experience a loss of closeness or stop being their primary go-to-person as they grew. What did happen was there were small and large changes that defined us emotionally.

I found what most of you have already found-children need to move away from us, and as a result of that process they're actually remaining close to us in the long run. I view parenting as a distance race not a sprint.

Everything you teach and all the moving away is aimed at the child who will eventually move out of your house, even the things you do at 18 months.

It comes in waves. Children have to move away in order to gain their strength and when they do move away they learn to trust you.

How does that happen?

When they move away from you they're forced to dig deep to access all the things you've already taught and shared with them. If they remain close to you at all times you become the primary voice of wisdom and they'll never learn to find their own voice. They will emotionally leave and return many, many times as the years march on- I promise.

You also get to move on as well. You get to find out who you want to be separate from them. If I had waited until I was empty nested to become my own person I would be way behind the eight ball right now. I know that seems light years away from your lives now, but it's not. Taller my younger son is a great example. He really needed me to be a separate person and show my strength so he could find his strength to do many, many things during childhood. When I hung on emotionally he was much less capable of finding his own courage. That process happened when he had his first day in preschool. It happened when he went out for baseball and many, many other times as he grew. If I showed a bit of emotional clinginess he would become clingy as well and he would give up searching for his courage to do it on his own. Of course I cried after the classroom door closed but who doesn't?

It's a pretty amazing process this parent-child thing. Like I said I was always sad when I had to create emotional distance and let them grow, go off to school or off to camp, things like that. But the child who returned from those experiences had a different air about them, more courage, more of a sense of themselves that it made it all worth it.

Speaking of growing, forgive me for going off topic for a moment but I thought all of you would want to know. I'm doing my first contest at ProActive Parenting! You may or may not know that I've had my own online TV show since last May. The contest asks moms/parents to send me ideas and topics that they would like me to address on the show. The grand prize winner gets an entire set of ProActive Parenting seminars, and there will be 10 runners-up, each one winning the seminar of their choosing.
This announcement will go up on ProActive Parenting dot net tomorrow and run through October 31, 2009. I wanted to announce this on my favorite blogs first. Send your topics / ideas to sharon@proactiveparenting dot net. And join me for ASK ME on MOMTV.com every Wednesday at 10 am PST.

[mom2boys]

@cloud - congratulations!

[hedra]

"the child who returned from those experiences had a different air about them, more courage, more of a sense of themselves that it made it all worth it."

This. That's what I loved about Mr G going to camp for two weeks (sleep away) over the summer. He was so much more himself after that! It was fabulous.

[meggiemoo]

I do something similar to Cloud...I have a little notebook in which I write a few sentences about each family member. I don't do it on any kind of schedule, just when I remember, so it happens about every few weeks or so. I write down what each of us is accomplishing (for the almost 4y.o., it was finishing potty training, for the 6m.o., it was sitting up, etc.), our interests at the moment, and what we need to work on (manners for the 4y.o., sleeping for the 6m.o.!).

I think I got the idea from the "Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway" book, but another great idea comes from the Happiness Project blog (http://www.happiness-project.com/happiness_project/2008/06/your-happiness.html) about keeping a one-sentence journal.

[Toni]

When my son was born, I loved it. We actually decided that we might go for 3 kids instead of two, right there in the delivery room. I was so happy at the infant stage, it's so primal. A friend of my mom's talked to me then talking about how wonderful babies are. But he then continiued, and you think it can't get any better, but it does. They grow up and the next stage is even more fun. And again, you think it doesn't get any better, but the next stage is even better. He finished by describing enthusiastically his recent activities (a trip, planning a surprise party) with his two girls, who are in their early twenties, and totally independent now. It was so wonderful to see how much he enjoyed his kids. And so far, his description has been accurate for me. Babies are wonderful, the best, until you get to toddlers, then preschoolers, and now pre-K. Seeing the child develop, master skills, assert his personality. We're expecting number 2 soon and I wonder how that will make me feel. Will a baby seem less fun compared to a "big kid"? I hope they will be so different, there will be no comparison.

[hush]

@Cloud - Congratulations!!! I'm so thrilled for you & your family!!! I visited your blog and it looks like we were in labor at the same time and gave birth within hours of each other. Very cool coincidence! Was there a full moon that night? Our hospital was completely full! ;)

Now that I have my second newborn baby at home, I'm again seeing the wistful looks in the eyes of people with grown children. They say things like "I can't believe my kids were ever this small. Where did the time go?" Their hope for me is that I won't go wishing away today - even if today is so hard & sleep-deprived, and even if "me" time is temporarily a thing of the past but also of the future. It will be both a sad and happy day when I can eventually sleep, use the bathroom & shower alone again!

[Sharon aka Mommie Mentor]

Cloud and Hush congratulations and many blessings to you and your new families.
Yes, those of us who have grown adult children do become wistful when we see babies. We know one thing you don't know, how quickly time passes! :( I'm going to go look at tall and taller's baby books and have a good cleansing cry!
Enjoy your babies!

[Cloud]

@Hush- congrats to you, too! I think that it was a full moon that night. Our hospital was not very busy, though- which was great for us. We had lots of attention from the nurses, and easily scored a private recovery room.

I'm finding the newborn phase easier to enjoy this time around. I think that is partly because I'm less freaked out and partly because baby #2 seems to be MUCH more mellow than baby #1 was.