Q&A: a question about sex

Clare writes:

"My partner and I have been together for about five years and we have a 18-month old child. We used to have sex a few times a week before the baby came along and our sex life was pretty normal.  Since the baby has been born, I have absolutely no sex drive whatsoever.  I just couldn't care less about it.  I'm still nursing, so that's what I attributed my lack of sex drive to until I analyzed it a little further: we have bad sex.

I can count the number of times my husband has made me orgasm on ONE hand. He rarely tries to please me, not with his mouth, not with his hand, nothing.  The few times he has tried to go down on me I've cut it short because it just wasn't going anywhere.  I know men aren't mind readers when it comes to what we have, but part of me just feels silly having to give directions after this long of being together, and I'm terrified that I'm going to hurt his feelings, or worse-- that even with directions, he'll still suck.  (I do orgasm during sex, but always with my vibrator. Sometimes I don't bring it out in the hopes that he'll take some initiative and try to please me, but nope--it's the vibrator or nothing.)

I think what the biggest problem is, is that it's now become normal.  My previous partner and I were also having really bad sex for two years (he too made no effort to please me)- so after a combined total of about seven years of bad sex, I just accept it.  What IS that?!  I used to have great sex! I was blessed with partners who knew what they were doing, or at least took cues from my breathing or noises that they should keep doing exactly as they're doing, but those days are long gone.

Bad sex is contagious too! Because my husband doesn't really try to make me enjoy it, I've become a bit spiteful and never give him oral sex anymore (I used to, up until the baby was born) because I don't get anything in return. I've almost stopped trying to be good at actual penis-vagina sex too, because I feel so hurt that he doesn't care about my needs. It's a vicious circle and I don't know how to stop it! Are we doomed to have worse and worse sex for the rest of our lives?"

Well, this is a juicy question for a Friday in March.

(Before we go any further into Clare's specific issue, I want to say that if you were having good sex before the baby but are feeling lack of desire now, many many women find that their libido comes back when their menstrual cycle returns and/or they stop nursing. If you want your cycle to come back but don't want to stop nursing, see if you can go for a 7 hours stretch without nursing every day for a few weeks--in some women that's enough to bring it back, while others have to completely wean for several months before it will return. You're probably somewhere in between. If you're completely done nursing for awhile and have your cycle back and still no libido, get your thyroid levels checked. If you were not having good sex before you had a baby, then you have a different issue to deal with than hormone levels.)

Claire, you're not alone. I'm sure there are tons of us that are or were partnered to people who didn't do it for us sexually. There's a theory that you can teach someone to be your perfect lover, but I think there has to be an initial spark, and that you can go from good sex to amazing sex, but it's awfully hard to go from bad sex to anything else.

Unfortunately, I think women get this idea from the larger culture that you date "bad boys" but marry "good guys" and that sets us up for some strange expectations for long-term partnership or marriage. It's almost as if we seek out men with whom we have no spark, because those are the guys we think are going to be good bets for the long haul, or good fathers, or whatever we're supposed to be looking for.

Here on the other side of a bad marriage, I've realized that sex is important. Really important. I think sexual chemistry is a huge indicator of other areas of compatibility in a relationship. Now I would only ever marry someone who completely knocked my socks off sexually, because I just think the sex is a barometer of the rest of how you relate and your expectations of each other. But that's not anything that helps Claire, or anyone else who looks around and realizes she's married to someone she's always had bad sex with.

Claire's situation is going from bad to worse, in that resentment is building up, and the two of them seem to be shutting down progressively. I think there are a couple of ways to address that. One way is for Claire to bite the bullet and have an honest talk with her partner (when they're not in bed) about how she sees the two of them pulling away from each other. They can talk about it and decide to make a commitment to being more proactive about each other's pleasure. Or Claire could just decide she was going to start changing the way she reacts, and become more generous with her partner, in hopes that that will open things up between them and her partner will start to reciprocate.

This still doesn't solve the larger issue, which is that they've always had bad sex. And there have to be reasons that that's true. Maybe Claire had a set of expectations of herself and her partner that made her enter into a long-term relationships with someone who wasn't satisfying her. It sounds like those expectations may be changing. I certainly don't want to tell people who have an otherwise good relationship to split up--that just doesn't make much sense. But how long can people live with bad sex (tapering off into no sex) between them? It seems like an unsolvable problem.

So I'm turning it over to you. Not asking for an answer necessarily (although if you have one, please post it!). I'm really just hoping you guys will post your stories and data points. If you and your partner have a sexual spark, has it always been there, or did it take time to develop? Has anyone started out with mediocre sex and improved it? If the sex is bad in your partnership, how do you deal with it? Could you live in a sexless marriage? Are you living in one?

Please feel free to comment anonymously! (Put www.google.com or www.fake.com in the URL field, and if it tells you it's not accepting the data, cut and copy your comment, then refresh the page and paste the comment into the text box and try again. I have no idea why that happens.)

Comments

[noname]

We have a pretty lousy sex life. My husband can and does bring me to orgasm, which is more than I can say for my first husband! But it really only happens because I:

* close my eyes and fantasize
* give my husband specific instructions about what to do

My husband likes getting specific instructions. In fact, he thinks its hot. But I really don't like giving them - so we do have that divide that we just can't seem to get past. When I have to tell him what to do, sex seems to become...just another item on the list of household tasks I have to manage, you know? Like I'm making the grocery list.

When I don't give my husband specific instructions, he has a routine that he does. It's okay, but after 7 years together it's pretty dull. Sometimes I want to SCREAM at him, "can you just try something, ANYTHING different from your usual routine?! Be a man, dammit!" But no. He's never once taken a risk in bed.

And I guess I shouldn't be surprised at that. He's a man who doesn't really take risks in life, either. But with all that said, we did have a sexual spark at the beginning. I didn't mind his "dullness" back then, because he was so willing to please me, and that was such a big and welcome change from my first marriage. My first husband was just the kind of aggressive partner that I tend to think I want these days; but I did not enjoy sex with him at all.

The problem is, I think, that sex needs change over time (like everything else) and having a good spark at the outset cannot necessarily insulate you from those changing needs.

My husband and I have talked this to death. He agrees to be more assertive, but then he never follows through. I'm kind of done talking about it at this point, you can only hit your head against the same wall so many times. I can't seem to change his sex patterns and I'm not going to divorce him. What can I control, then? My own actions and reactions. So I'm trying really hard to change my attitude and figure out how to enjoy giving him instructions and being the boss in bed, rather than feeling like I've been given another household chore. I haven't quite gotten there yet, obviously, but I do definitely have better sex when I just do it, and don't think about how much I dislike being in charge. Sometimes I think the only good answer is to stop overanalyzing things, you know?

[katydid]

I married a man for whom I had great lust. There was turbulence, passion, and lots of fire in the first 5 years of our relationship, but we were always passionate about each other physically and emotionally. Then came a phase of settling down and learning to compromise in a way that we deemed necessary if a family would follow. And then we had kids. Sex is not nearly as often as those first five years, but there still is incredibly steamy chemistry between us.

My husband would have sex many times a day no matter what is going on in our emotional relationship. I am different. If we are arguing about things, then I do not want to be physical with him. But I have to say that we often remark to each other that we are so thankful to have found a partner that we lust for. We both understand and accept that while the kids are young and omnipresent, sex is not a priority, but we always engage each other in playful ways relating to sex. We whisper 'x-rated' things to each other throughout the day, hold each other and kiss often, text naughty notes and so on. And we openly talk about desires. My husband was never into 'extras'. But a few months ago, he bought me fancy underwear, and we both had a blast with it. I really believe that conversations should be open and frank about desires, in and out of the bed. And criticism should not be viewed as bad. My husband asks me to groom in a certain manner, if I haven't kept up, and I am never offended. And if I tell him that I do not want to today, because it itches, well he is not offended and knows that I will do it another time.

Lots of talking, openness, honesty and flexibility are key. We are 17 years together, by the way.

[p]

I haven't had sex for, a while, let's say. I have a 4 year old, a 26 month old, work part time, and still breastfeed. And do not feel horny. Hubby rarely initiates now and I don't cos I dont feel like it. For the record, I rarely masturbate either these days, so it's not just with DH that I don't feel like having sex.

We were never prolific shaggers in the past, but when we did make love, I always came, and enjoyed myself. We both did. We had good sex, albeit a little predictable, but that's what got me where I needed to get if you know what I mean.

Things slowed down with the first child and pettered out with the second. And now we are at the stage that I have forgotten how to re-start. I honestly believe it is a matter of getting back into a routine. We used to have sex in the mornign when we woke up, but now we are awoken every morning by one of the kids, so no morning job now. I like the evenings but most nights we stay up watching tv, or go out ( yes, we do manage to 'date' having a more or less live in nanny)and then both of us are out like logs.

I know what I have to do. We need to dedicate one night a week to sex, as we do to, say, cleaning the house. I know that sounds unromantic but I read somewhere that sex must be programmed like any ohter job and just becasue you don't feel like it at the moment, doesn't mean it won't be enjoyable. Hubby, OTOH, wants everything to be spontaneous and unplanned, like it was pre-kids, but honestly how is that possible with kids around, one of which wakes up at the crack of dawn.

I'm still not at panic stations yet, but I can see this getting out of hand and goign on forever if we don't make a change. I love my husband, think he is so much more wonderful now than when we first got married but would hate to be in a permanent
sexless marriage.

[anonforthisone]

My data point-
My husband and I are observant Jews, and this meant that for us, physical contact of all kinds was reserved for after marriage. However, we do believe that sex is a very very important part of a good marriage. I get asked often how I was able to marry someone without knowing how we were in bed together. The best advice I got on this was as follows..good sex=affection+technique. Not some magical chemisty that either works or doesn't. And I will tell you, I was not physically attracted to my husband from first glance. But I was very attracted to his personality. As I got to know him better and became closer emotionally to him, the physical attraction developed from there. Because we went into marriage both with no sexual experience at all, we were commited to growing in this area together, communicating, experimenting, and making it work. We had no expectations from each other, other than wanting to make each other happy. I would say that there are ebbs and flows, definitely related to pregnancy\breastfeeding, among other things, but communication has been key.
BTW, the wanting me in charge, i totally hate too, I feel like i want strength, but when I think about it, part of what makes my husband who he is is that he isn't agressive..so why would he be somebody diff in bed?

Oh also, Judaism has some rules where we are not allowed to be together part of the time, and then are, and this adds a lot of spark. You build up desire during those times that you are off limits to each other, and then there is the automatic excitement of the reunion. Like make-up sex without a fight.

That was the data point. As far as Clare, I think that the physical relationship is not separate from the rest of the relationship, and if Clare is feeling uncared for then that is probably going to go both ways, physically and emotionally outside of bed. So the only way to go is a conversation at a good time, when you are connecting, not angry, and not in bed. And I would frame it as "let's talk about ways to make us both happier in bed". Once you both commit to wanting to make each other happier, if it's too difficult to talk about specifics, try using fantasy\role play to give instructions, before the fact, not during. Like pretend phone sex, for ex. where you talk about what he would do. This should give him some ideas, without you having to be a GPS.

Good luck, this is worth thinking about and working on.

[nonametoo]

What a can of worms you have opened up Moxie. This is one of those aspects of my 9 year relationship that I don't seem to be able to resolve. My husband and I have been married 5 out of the 9 years and two kids later (one of whom is an infant), I don't seem to have the energy to worry too much about the bad sex we have. On one hand, we are emotionally closer now after having kids than we were before. Our relationship has blossomed. We are a team. We love and support each other. We find each other attractive. All that jazz. HOWEVER, the sex has always been bad for me. I have tried to have a few tentative conversations with him about wanting to be touched a certain way and he would listen and nod and I would think "yes, this is going to be good next time", but nope. Same old thing. Eventually I just gave up. By the way he has never once initiated oral sex so I also just stopped giving it to him out of spite. How wonderful, no? We have zero foreplay, he just expects to penetrate me within the first five minutes of being naked.
Now, I could be mad about all of this (I used to be) or I could talk to him about it. I take responsibility for not having improved our sex life because I have always been the one to take action or force action on things in our lives that were not working. He is just not an action-oriented kind of guy when it comes to relationships. He is also not experienced when it comes to women! I married a man who did not sleep around at all (and I even doubt he had secret stashes of nudie magazines) so it seems to me like he just never picked up any tricks. Furthermore, he doesn't seem to have much of an imagination or he is too shy to act on his imagination when it comes to sex.
I don't know how to put this, but I still find him incredibly sexy and attractive and I love him tons and tons. I love his mind and his heart and his body too. It's just that sexually we seem mismatched or something.
I know what turns me on, but it seems like he has a hard time listening to me when it comes to sex. Maybe I am threatening his manhood or maybe he feels like he should just know how to turn me on? I guess I need to delve into it deeper once the fog lifts. In my opinion, it's never too late to broach the subject of sex and I do believe that we can improve upon our sex life. I will probably get some lashing for this, but the foundation of our relationship is not our sex life. I've had a relationship like that and it did not work.
At the same time it is frustrating that we don't have a great sex life. I am a physical person (love to exercise, run, do kickboxing) and I would love it if he would just throw me down and do things to me until I begged him to take me. Yeah, so that's just not him. I don't know if he will ever be that man. But I may be able to eventually coach him to be a man that at least takes instruction from me on how to be a better lover. Wish me luck.

[anon :)]

My husband recently left after 9 years of what I considered a happy marriage. We had been best friends and had no problems (ie no conflicts/no fighting). He left because he wants more passion, and said he's been feeling this was for a couple of years (didn't mention to me, though until he said it was too late to do anything to fix it).

We had fairly regular sex and while it wasn't knock your socks off, it was *fine*. Before marriage I dated a guy with whom there was no spark, and I couldn't even sleep with him, let alone have married him! And I dated guys with whom there was a spark, and sometimes the sex was good and sometimes, not so much. That said, I really can't picture being married to someone for years and having the same spark that was there at the beginning-my love for my husband changed in that regard, but for me it seemed like it changed for the better. The love was less passionate, but way deeper.

[caramama]

First, I love talking about sex! Probably because of my dream to become a romance writer someday. In fact, I wrote a post about trying to help yourself (women) get back in the mood if you haven't been feeling it much (http://caramamamia.blogspot.com/2008/02/im-in-mood-for-love.html, if anyone is interested).

Now on to Clare's issue. I have found that the key to amazing sex is being open with your partner and talking about things, as katydid said in and out of bed. I was in a relationship once where the sex was starting to feel monotonous, mostly because my needs had shifted a bit and my partner was not able to read all my non-verbal queues. I finally just said, I'm not in the mood for that. Can you do this/be like this instead?

I think it was important that I said I wasn't in the mood, not that it was bad/not working for me/I never liked it/etc. Being able to bit the bullet and say what I wanted (but doing so in an unoffensive way) has helped me greatly keep amazing sex with my husband, even as our needs and desires shift over the years. We are very open with each other and had an out-of-bed conversation many years ago about how our needs and desires shift, so that what we liked previously might be different from what we wanted now.

This understanding on both our parts keeps either of us from being offended and might work for Clare because it will probably be easier than saying she's always thought the sex was bad.

Once you get comfortable with speaking up for what you want in bed (or even guiding them or showing them with your hands--which really seems to turn on most men), it becomes easier and easier (except maybe in noname's case, which I'd have to think about more before commenting on). Now, I find it quite easy to say that I like something, keep doing it EXACTLY like that or to say faster/harder/softer/a little to the left/etc to whatever it is. I will also outright tell him (okay, playfully demand) sometimes that I need more foreplay or even less, that I want it slow and romantic or not, that I just want a quickie or not.

Another long comment from me, mainly to say speak up. Do it carefully and as unoffensively as you can, but do it. I doubt he doesn't want to please you--as I've found in my own experiences and in talks with others that men REALLY want to please their partners because it makes them feel really good. My guess is he has no idea how to please you or that he isn't or that it can be different.

Good luck to you and others!

[nonametoo]

Thanks caramama. The problem with telling my husband what I want is that I tend to be a pretty straightforward kind of person and he is a sensitive dude. Our styles just clash...And when it comes to sex, he views it as "lovemaking" and romantic and ethereal whereas I view it as passionate, physical and maybe kind of animalistic (fulfilling some basic physical needs). Yes, while we fulfill those needs we also end up making love and yes, having sex is so intimate that it does lead to more love, but to me, it's rarely this romantic thing. It almost seems like our roles are switched except for the fact that I like and need foreplay and he doesn't. I also would prefer to have sex every day if I could (even while b/fing), but he definitely does not. Huh. Do we need therapy or what?

[???]

@Caramama- I would love to read your post about how to get in the mood but the link is dead....

[Rach]

I just tried the link too - there is a comma included at the end. If you click it, then when the error page appears delete the comma in the address bar and click go - it should work.

[hedra]

There's only so much I can comment on from here, but a few thoughts...

1) Talking really is important. If you're stuck in the 'if I say something NOW, it will seem like 5 years too late' issue, but you had a child in the last two years or so, you can definitely chalk it up to the changes in your body after pregnancy/birth. What I liked changed every time. It actually is a little disappointing sometimes, because something that really WORKED stopped working at all, and then we had to go looking for something new that worked. Feel free to use that as a basis - 'I thought it was just a temporary thing, but I started checking around, and it turns out our bodies change a lot in response after having a baby, and we have to go re-learn what works and doesn't work. I'll need your help so we can find some new methods together. Which actually could be kind of fun, in a naughty kind of way. I might even like things you never thought I'd like ...'

2) Doing some reading doesn't hurt, either. There are some really good resources on how to stir things up - and some that aren't even cheesy and embarassing! I can usually tell when ep has been doing some extra reading. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but it's always worth wandering around past the usual edges.

Okay, actually, that's all I can post from here, I'll come back with other stuff later (but by then someone else will probably have covered that territory, anyway, because y'all so rock.)

[notme!]

I agree that the only way out of Claire's bind is a conversation of some sort. You'll learn a lot about him and your relationship when you figure out what he's willing/not willing to do after you've been explicit and laid it all out for him. But those conversations are not easy to have, I know...They're kind of unsexy, and you feel like a manager/director, instead of someone's sex interest. So, my suggestion: what about a video? They make those "teaching" videos that are a cross between how-to and porn, and while I don't expect you really "learn" too much, they start the conversation in a non-confrontational, kind of fun way. Also, he gets to "look forward" (an important piece of communication for many men), and watch a little porn with his lady--what's not to like? Maybe?

[Jill]

Ok, everyone- we need some links here to these "how-to" videos, any good books and any other good sources of information. DH is willing to learn, but I don't know how to help him. I'm not even sure what I want sometimes.

I'll try to chime in later if I have time.

[hydrogeek]

Wish I knew how to fix this one, but since I am having many of the same problems as the first noname (sex=grocery list when I have to be in charge)I don't know how to address it. I do know that some of my resentful feelings come from the fact that I don't feel like I get any help at the house or really even with the kids very much, so maybe this is a bigger issue than sex for me. Communication does seem to help, and since we had a good sex life before kids (2 yr old and 4 month old), I'm hoping we get back there one day soon. (Going to read the caramama post now...)

[anaximander]

Don't forget, if you've or your partner has a significant drop in desire, or never had a huge amount in the first place, to get yourself medically checked and, if you're on meds, to talk to your doctor / pharmacist about side effects. It can make a huge difference.

[Beth]

Noname, I feel like I could have written the exact same comments!! It's comforting to hear that other experience this just like I do, but it doesn't solve the issue. And heck, I stopped breast feeding 6 months ago and the desire still has yet to return.

I agree that Claire talking about the issue with her husband is really the only way out of it. And even then, you're leaving it up to chance that it will be followed through. (I think if you just give and expect he'll get the message, you are setting yourself up for disappointment and more resentment.) BUT I think if you don't want to say that you've been having bad sex for years, for fear of hurting your husband's feelings, what you can do is to "blame" it on childbirth... say that things have changed physically and hormonally for you now, and you need different things to be satisfied. What used to work seems to no long work. Ask your husband if he'd be willing to help you find what "floats your boat" so to speak. Then you can direct him with what you think will feel good, even if you know what you want all along.

Good luck!

[Cloud]

I don't really have anything for Claire's problem.

But I wanted to add something to Moxie's bit about nursing and libido. I assumed that was why my libido was down, too, until Hubby and I decided to try to get pregnant so I stopped taking the mini-pill. I was still nursing- my cycle came back when Pumpkin was 10 months old, even though I was still nursing quite a bit. I just finished weaning Pumpkin this week, at 23 months old.

OMG, did my libido come back when I went off that pill. My theory is that if pregnancy didn't do much for your libido, the mini-pill might not, either. The regular pill never impacted my libido, so I had never thought about the mini-pill doing so.

Unfortunately for Hubby, we got pregnant quickly, and my libido plummeted again with the all day morning sickness. (So I guess I've decided to share that I'm pregnant- I'll get around to posting that on my blog some day soon. I'm just finishing the 1st trimester and starting to feel a little better).

[P]

What a great topic, as this is really the only part of my marriage I'm not totally happy with. My husband and I had great sex all during the dating period, but his interest seemed to taper off post marriage and significantly now post child. I'm really concerned about what's going on, because aren't all guys supposed to want sex all the time? And I don't think he masturbates either. Where is his sex drive? I've tried to talk to him about it off and on over the years, and he'll make an initial attempt to fool around more frequently, and then it will revert to normal (which is none). I've also tried to initiate sex, and his usual initial response is rejection or negativity, and then after some time, he'll feel guilty and then he'll attempt to initiate, but then my feelings are hurt. The only conclusion I can come to is that he doesn't find me attractive any more, although he swears that's not true.

In a perverse way, it's nice to hear that everyone else's sex lives are not perfect. Has anyone else encountered a partner who has zero interest and overcome it? Anyone have any ideas as to what might be going on here?

My partner prior to my husband was a very aggressive, assertive, wants-it-all-the-time, anywhere kind of guy, so this is especially difficult. Any advice or thoughts are much appreciated! (and sorry, Claire, to hijack your post!)

[anonthree]

This is so my life. I have nothing to add, but commiseration.
I was wildly attracted to my husband when we met. Within a year of marriage, the sex got monotonous and boring. He's not BAD, just boring --- quiet, same "strategies," etc. He had little experience with women before me, and he's not confident in a physical way. He's also incredibly insecure and sensitive about criticism -- I tried to talk about this about 5 years into our marriage, and he retreated. It was terrible.
He's an amazing person, and I love him dearly, but I'm just not attracted to him anymore. The lack of physicality is our only marital problem. We won't divorce.
We have two children, and I think we've had sex maybe two or three times in the last year. It's such a big problem, a huge wall to scale, that we don't even talk about it anymore.
Thanks for posting this, Moxie. It is good to know that other moms are having similar experiences.

[mom2boys]

Yay Cloud! Glad to hear the happy news and that you are starting to feel better. All day morning sickness is the pits.

[Anon]

I'll add a data point.

We had a lot of sex the first year or two we were together. And then when things get busy, we have less sex. After ~15 years, I can say, once I start have sex regularly (like 2-3 times a week), I want sex (like 6x a week). No matter what, my husband would like sex 2x a week and not Saturday and Sunday. His sex drives is sort of constant and unchanging - 2x a week is good. Mine turns off and on. When I am on, I initiate, I am aggressive. When I am off, I couldn't care less.

While breastfeeding, 3 babies, one currently 6 months and still nursing, I had no sex drive.

The other change for me is that usually I can count on a kinky fantasy or two to rev the engines when I am not in the mood and he is. And while breastfeeding that does not work. I want vanilla sex. I want romantic sex. And truth be told, I have a hard time orgasming to vanilla romantic sex, so it ends up being sort of blah for both of us.

My advice to Clare is probably conversation. My husband and I have talked about our dry spells. Right now we're in a dry spell, see nursing baby. He was hinting and I told him I'll need some romance. I think he's decided to wait me out as no romance is forthcoming.

But I'll also suggest my counter intuitive advice - have sex every night or every other night. When we were TTC #3, we had scheduled sex for 9-10 months, separated by a miscarriage. It proved to me that I could do it and it was even fun.

[Claire]

Thank you to everyone for your comments, especially from those of you who can relate. Even though it's sad to think of so many of us having such lackluster sex, it's nice not to feel so alone. No one IRL I talk to about this seems very comfortable discussing it, especially other moms.

I have spoken to my husband about this issue several times throughout our relationship. And he does try to fix the problem, but in a similar way to how he tries to fix it when I ask him to help out more around the house. He'll do a load of laundry and then go back to being utterly useless. Same thing with sex... he'll give a half-hearted attempt at making me cum, and then it'll go back to normal, which is even more dissapointing than if I hadn't even brought up the topic in the first place.

I just don't feel like having to ASK all the time, ya know? Who wants to come off like a nag?

And that's the other thing, because I have to ask, it makes me feel like there's something wrong with me or that he's disgusted by me, so instead of feeling like I'm "forcing" him to do something he doesn't want to do (therefore having a terrible time inside my head if he IS down there; "oh god, he doesn't like this. It's taking too long. What if he's tired? Oh god, hurryhurryhurry. Oh, just forget it!"), I just would prefer him to not do anything... hence the past four years.

[Brooke]

The how-to videos that my friend who owned a sex toy store always recommends are by Nina Hartley.

[Shandra]

My data points are probably not that helpful but - my husband and I have great sex, at least for me. He's great in bed. Since having our son though - who is 3.5 - our frequency is waaaaay down. And it's not just the child - it's work (his)! That gets in the way! It's annoying! And I really mean that and it ends up making me feel lousy.

Claire, that probably wasn't that helpful for you, so I'm sorry about that. Although it occurs to me that maybe we have almost a similar communication issue about how important this is for each of us. I'm not sure what the solution is other than that: open marriage? counselling? how-to videos?

[Jan]

Oh boy,I am dealing with this issue in a major way right now. My son is two and I am still breastfeeding. My desire comes and goes but my husbands libido is dead. We met under very passionate circumstances and our relationship was totally charged sexually for many years.It seemed to taper off in frequency when we got pregnant, but the sex was still good. The past two years have been tragic , we go months without any action and when we do have sex it is good but we are out of practice , its so few and far between that we never pick up any momentum and get back in sinc. We are also morning sex people and the baby wakes us at 5 am so we are often exhausted. I really wanted to open up a dialogue between us , maybe have some fun while the baby naps , but honestly , I need a little more inspiration since his energy is often really shut down and I feel like he is letting himself go a bit physically. I am always the one to initiate the conversation and it almost always ends in an argument , or with me feeling like I am the aggressive, desperate women who cant just " let things flow". I know that the stress of finances and child rearing is a major cause, we can never seem to catch up. But our lives are great in so many ways and it truly saddens me that he wont reach out for me anymore, we rarely kiss passionately and he doesn't seem to think sex is a priority in our marriage ..I am not just concerned about the act of sex, also spontanious hugging , kissing, intimate touch. Its so rare that he reaches out to me that way.and I feel lonely a lot of the time. We don't have the money for a marriage counseler right now and I am not sure if talk therapy is what we need . I never thought I would be in this position with this particular man. Before we were together I was prone to having affairs when I got bored in a relationship, I don't have much opportunity for this , or time to get in that kind of trouble, but I find myself having vengeful thoughts about the possibility. Like" fine, if you wont meet my needs as a women..Ill look elsewhere."In other respects, he is a perfect father and a very talented and beautiful man.I am trying to be patient, keep telling myself that things will change when our child sleeps, more, goes to preschool..ect..
anyway, no solutions here but thanks for giving me a forum to get this whole thing off my chest.

[bri]

Three things that helped my sex life:

- Realizing it wasn't enough to talk in vague ways asking my husband to be more "assertive" or "romantic" but rather that I had to be viciously specific.

- Discovering the obvious fact that men require sex for closeness in a relationship and women require closeness for sex in a relationship. Meaning all the kindness and good deeds a man does around the house are helpful as "foreplay" to get a woman in the mood. Whereas men are not going to feel like doing nice things for you unless they are having regular sex with you. So this is a problem. Something that needs to be spoken out loud and then compromised upon.

- Listening to hundreds of Dan Savage podcasts to help me think about what specific stuff I wanted to try and do and then talking to my husband about it. And everyone else I know. Because Dan Savage is my sex prophet and I have pledged my life to his cult.

[meggiemoo]

I've been with my DH for 15 years (married for 8). We've certainly had our ups and downs in the sex arena, but we've always been able to talk about it (usually, I think things are going pretty well, and he's feeling a bit neglected). Here's my 2 cents worth:

1. Get thee a sex toy, or several. Many, many women have no idea what makes them orgasm. The only way to find out is to take matters into your own hands, so to speak. Make sure you get a high-quality toy, not some cheapie plastic thing. (Try http://www.babeland.com.) Having a "goody" drawer or box is awesome. Many women don't orgasm by intercourse alone...there's nothing wrong with needing some help.

2. Watch sexy movies and/or porn. No, you don't have to watch the typical woman-degrading porn...there are some wonderful sex-positive films out there being produced by women. (Try http://www.comstockfilms.com/) The vast majority of men are highly visual, and this would surely get things going.

3. Sex begets sex, just like sleep begets sleep. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. If you stop having regular sex, chances are very good your situation is going to stay that way! Take responsibility for the situation and initiate, initiate, initiate. Or at least don't say no. Even if you're not necessarily in the mood at first, you can often get in the mood as you go.

4. If you have a partner with a truly low libido, check medical reasons first. If everything checks out, and he still doesn't want sex, get counseling.

5. Set a personal goal for yourself...tell yourself (secretly) that you'll have the goal of having sex a certain number of times a week for a month and see what happens. Even if the sex is quick (nothing wrong with quickies, in my book!), it counts. You're making deposits into your sex bank, even if they're small ones. Soon you'll both be in the habit of more

I think sex is FAR more important that we usually think it is. It's truly how we connect with eachother. It's the barometer of your relationship. It's worth the effort you put into it.

[anonforthistoo]

Another data point: My husband and I had great sex in the beginning of our relationship, but tapered off especially due to infertility and the stress thereof but also just plain old stress, fatigue, etc. I was on pelvic rest for my ENTIRE pregnancy (i.e. we had sex the same weekend as the IUI and then that was IT) and then after baby was born sex was very very painful and my libido was zero, even after I stopped bfing. I brought it up to my OB but she basically blew me off, saying that it was completely normal, that I worked full-time and had a baby and of course I didn't want to have sex.

I realized that, while of course she shouldn't have blown me off, there was some truth to what she was saying--I was really overloaded, and carrying a lot of resentment and trust issues toward my husband both from being overloaded working mom and also stemming from before we had the baby, that we had just never dealt with. Meanwhile, my husband, who had gone without sex for over a year, and then only sporadic terrible sex after that (in the first 2 years of my daughter's life I think we had sex maybe 6 times), was becoming incredibly resentful and angry about it, which of course spilled over into our relationship and only made matters worse. (It's hard to feel attracted to someone who is constantly making nasty comments about how you won't "give him any.")

I don't really have a magic solution. We have both been in therapy individually but haven't gotten our act together for couples therapy. But about a month ago, we had another huge horrible fight about the lack of sex. And then that night, even though it was the last thing I felt like doing, I initiated. And it was actually OK. And then a few days later he initiated, and that was better. And (knock wood) we've had pretty decent sex once or twice a week since then.

The things that work for me have changed a LOT since I gave birth, so I have had to be pretty directive about what I want (which is hard because half the time I myself still haven't figured out what will work). I agree with the advice to use childbirth as the excuse for your new directiveness, as opposed to "we've never had good sex."

And Claire, I just wanted to tell you that there is nothing wrong with you, and that your husband is NOT disgusted by you or he wouldn't be having sex with you in the first place. Your mental commentary is totally normal, I think, because it's often hard for us to feel like we deserve for men to do whatever it takes to please us. And I also think it's normal to feel like, when you're in charge of SO MUCH else in your life (baby, home, work if you WOH, probably your relationship too if your guy is not very proactive in that dept), well, when it comes to sex, wouldn't it be nice to just lie back and let things happen? Unfortunately, though, things just don't get better on their own, and speaking from personal experience they will just continue to poison the rest of your relationship.

For anyone looking for a book, I'd suggest The Passion Prescription by Laura Berman--it's sort of earnest, but good.
http://www.amazon.com/Passion-Prescription-Weeks-Your-Best/dp/1401302246
Also great is Love in the Time of Colic (best book name EVER):
http://www.amazon.com/Love-Time-Colic-Parents-Getting/dp/0061465127

There's an exercise in Berman's book called sensate focus which is a classic sex therapy exercise:
http://health.discovery.com/centers/sex/sexpedia/sensate.html
It was surprisingly powerful--I admit I cried when we did it.

[Alsoanon]

I could have written P's post above, except the part about great sex before marriage -- we had no sex at all before marriage, owing to our religious beliefs. But a lot of very hot making out! :) Post-marriage this tapered off, just when I thought we'd be liberated to have sex all the time. I was turned down many, many times, and blamed myself for being unattractive, even though he swears it's not so. I don't think he masturbates (though I do.) The sex is good, when we have it, but that might be once every two or three months. And I'll talk to him about it, and he'll try to be more enthusiastic, but he takes every conversation as criticism -- that he's failed me again. And it's taken me years to believe I'm worthy of being a sexual person.

Just recently I tried a new tack. "How often would you ideally like to have sex?" I asked. "Twice a week," he said. I managed not to laugh in his face, and nodded enthusiastically, and yes, yes, let's aim for that. Claire, maybe you could try something similar -- "Ideally, when we have sex, what percent of the time do you think I should come?" Leading question, yeah, but so what?

Oh, and I sympathize with the inner voices. I had to deliberately change those from "It's taking so long -- he probably hates this --" etc. to "He loves this -- he thinks it's hot -- this drives him wild" before I could enjoy it. :)

[owoeisme]

@ Jan: I also far, far prefer sex in the early morning when I've gotten a bit of shuteye. I don't think it's happened since I was pregnant with #2 (who is now 3) because the logistics have just been too complicated. I am a morning person; hubby is not but willing to concede on this point above all others. I keep waiting for a chance to get it back in the morning groove, but it just hasn't happened. Heh, maybe a night away from the breastfeeding minions would be helpful.

[sheSaid]

my husband and I have been together since I was 15. He's the only person I have been with... so things have changed GREATLY over time as we have both changed and matured.

It was great and fun and lots of spark in the beginning... except that we were young naive inexperienced :) Then there were phases where it sucked. It rarely happened and it was very follow this specific pattern, and I was frustrated with it and with myself and us.

Things are much better now, yet we are still working on it. What has changed?
We talk about it a lot. Not just hey, that sucks do something better. The whole dialog has changed to. HOW we talk about it changed.

I have and am spending time trying to understand myself and my sexuality more. The things that I have brought to the table from my childhood experiences, socialization, and our relationship. There are things I feel and think that I don't like, that I want to change. I have read alot on the topic of Identity and sexuality and sex. More than just hey try this technique.

It is so much more than technique. It is about that connection between two people who are both opening up and sharing and wanting to create something more that very pleasurable.

Even now I have noticed we fall into a pattern, sometimes I am just not up for it. I feel too tired for we start here and do this and then end here. So I suggested we have a different kind of dialog. Instead of hey I am interested in sex tonight. I might say, I want to be close, I don't know what I am up for, what might you be up for? And we start hammering out suggestion (very specific) about what we want. Like a negotiation. Because then I don't feel like I have say no if I am just not up for the whole kit-n-caboodle.
We are both also trying to think about Intimacy as the goal instead of sex. If the goal is sex then in my mind it seems like it must end in the type of sex that makes babies with us both coming together (socialization? :) ) Then there is this pressure, ok did I orgasm, am I getting there fast enough.

So we are trying to think more broadly about adding intimacy to our lives. Somedays it may be naked cuddling (and it nay lead to more), or it might be a quickie in the morning, or one of us masturbating while the other is touching us, because that is all we want or are up to. And then accepting all of that variety if it makes us feel good and close as correct and meaningful. Making out as a teen was fun in and f itself, and just because we now go all the way does not mean we have to loose what came before it.

I really recommend the book passionate marriage http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805058265/bookstorenow57-20

It will give the partner reading it good ideas on how relationships work, the dynamic and what they can do even if the other person is not on board. When I was first reading it I felt very challenged by what he was saying. It was so different from how I was taught about relationships (by media) but I found it to be a great source of personal growth.

I know I went on and on. But sex and sexuality are such a huge part of who we are and part of our lives, and it is a topic I am very passionate about. I think we are done such a disservice by how we are socialized regarding sex, intimacy and sexuality.

-- off my soap box :)

[Anon]

My question to Clare is... do you know how to make yourself orgasm? I don't feel like anyone can have a healthy sexual relationship with anyone else if they don't have one with themselves. It's perfectly natural, fun, and you learn alot about your own wants and desires when you masturbate.

[meggiemoo]

And lest anyone think I'm a hot mama who's having sex all over the house, I have a 3-year-old bad sleeper and I'm due with #2 in a week. But we still try to fulfill eachother's needs. And sex during pregnancy (even at this late stage) is really, really awesome for me. Must be the hormones or increased blood flow or some such!

[Anon]

When I was nursing, I felt about as un-sexy as a milk cow. I didn't want to have sex, and when we did, it was pretty awful. Then, of course, we got into a similar cycle of resentment, and struggled to stay close (emotionally as well as physically). After 18 months of nursing, as I weaned my son, my period returned and I was astonished by the difference in my hormones, and the fact that I actually *wanted* to have sex again--and when we did, it was good again!

I guess what I'm trying to say is: not to discount where you are now, but is there a chance that this long period of nursing/bad sex time is coloring your perceptions of sex in general? I know I got to the point, after so many months of disinterest, where I began to wonder what it was like to even *want* sex, to see it as more than a necessary nuisance. Once my hormones were back in shape, though, I was surprised by how much a role *my* desire played in all of it. I hope that when your hormones return to normal you will be similarly pleasantly surprised.

Best of luck to you.

[elle]

More video recommendations:

http://www.candidaroyalle.com/ - Go to Femme Productions. These are very romantic, couples-oriented films.

http://www.tinynibbles.com/smartporn (Link is Not Safe for Work!) - Fun, slightly edgier.

Videos can be a great way to ask for what you want in bed. Because you don't have to come up with all the ideas - just point out what you like - it keeps it from being a chore. And since most men like the novelty and visuals, it softens the potential for feeling criticized.

(I completely respect people who morally opposed all pornography. But if you're just on the fence about it, I can say that these recommendations are feminist-vetted for safe working conditions and enthusiastic, aware adult performers.)

[caramama]

Sorry about the bad link! It included a comma at the end that shouldn't be there: http://caramamamia.blogspot.com/2008/02/im-in-mood-for-love.html

@nonametoo - I think that with different styles, it's about compromise. This time, let's do it passionately and animalistically, and next time we'll do slow and romantic. Both of your needs have to be fulfilled. If he is more comfortable with the romantic and gentle and you guys do only that, it's not a compromise. Just like if one partner likes a quickie, sometimes just do a quickie even if you're not in the mood... but not every time. That's all I can think of now. Good luck!

@P - I have a good friend whose husband is like that. I honestly think that there are other issues when men's libidos go down/off. I really really suggest getting him to see a doctor and if it's not medical going to couples counseling or even him getting counseling know that it's an issue he should work on. Good luck!

@Cloud - CONGRATS!!!! How exciting!!!

I have more thoughts, but am running late for a meeting so I'll be back later.

[sheSaid]

Ok more to say after reading what others said and thinking about it.

stop thinking about sex and as specific act (ie how you make babies)
instead think about being intimate and getting your needs met.

Honestly when I was pregnant and early after the baby was born I didn't want or couldn't have baby making sex. If my husband was interested I would say, I will give you oral (I was willing - and only if I was and and did it lovingly) or no I don't want to do that, I will use my hand, or no I don't feel up to that, but I will lay with you, or be with you, or be naked next to you and you can masturbate.

Sometimes I will be like, hey I am not up for a full on thing, I just want to orgasm... do you mind? and most likely I will take things in my own hands (I am more efficient at getting the job done quick) and be very specific about how I want him to touch me. Or I will say... hey I want to be alone and do it.

We all have the RIGHT to have good sex and orgasms but I think we are socialized to not really understand that.

I felt guilty and worried that my husband would feel like he 'failed me' if I didn't orgasm during sex and then wanted to lay down and 'finish off'... he was like, no I want you to feel pleasure whatever that means.

I think we have such a narrow understanding of what sex and intimacy SHOULD be and feel very guilty or stressed or anxious if we don't meet that mold. But there is no way that two people (WITH KIDS even) will always (or most of the time) have the type of sex I read about in romance novel (the guys always know just how to please her, she orgasms multiple times and ALWAYS the same time as him) that doesn't exists.... but it makes a GREAT story. :)

wow. I typed a lot AGAIN!

[Claire]

Anon: In my original question to Moxie, it mentioned that I take out my vibrator, so yeah, haha, I totally know how to bring myself to orgasm (either with that or my hands). I tend to masturbate nearly daily with the help of porn. :)

[Jac]

I might be a statistical anomoly but I have actually found sex post-baby to be better (although we didn't have sex until DS was 7 months old and I was getting a decent amount of sleep each night). The things I think have helped:

1. My birth control choice after baby is a paraguard IUD - I am certain that the birth control pills I was on pre-baby were quashing my libido.

2. I had a small tear from delivery that resulted in some scar tissue. This means that some of our old-faithful positions are painful, which means that we've been forced to branch out. And I think it was a lot easier for my husband to hear "New Position because Old Position hurts" as compared to "New Position cuz Old Position (which you've been doing for the last 10 years) just doesn't do it for me").

3. We try to get away over night once in a while - something about a hotel room makes you feel like you are sneaking around which ups the lust factor.

4. Kissing. Lots and lots of kissing. I think pre-baby we went through a dry spell of no kissing which was worse, in my opinion, than no sex. Now, I brush and floss my teeth more, make sure my lips are always nicely moisturized and aim for more big smooches with a little nibble, than small cheek pecks.

[hush]

Moxie makes such an interesting point about good boys/bad boys: "We seek out men with whom we have no spark, because those are the guys we think are going to be good bets for the long haul, or good fathers..." Likewise, I think some men have internalized a virgin/whore complex, where once their wife becomes a mother, their view of her changes so that she is no longer a sexual being. BTW, both of these views are completely dysfunctional. As is the effed up view that men are supposed to want sex all the time and women aren't. Seriously, WTF? You all know this already, but people are Actual Individuals with Certain Preferences that may or may not coincide with those of other people who just so happen to have the same type of genitalia. ;)

IMHO, depending on the nature of your ongoing marital conflict, a licensed sex therapist may be able to do a lot more good for your marriage than a regular marriage counselor. ITA with all who have suggested you get you & DH's health checked. Decreased sex drive can certainly signal/coincide with depression, problems with medications, erectile issues, thyroid issues, and hormonal imbalances.

My data points: I have a high sex drive, in part because I've been really working at it, and because I know how important good, healthy, mutually-satisfying sex is to the health of any marriage. I always feel so good after I have an orgasm (endorphin rush), so I make time to masturbate daily. I also read dirty books (aka "cliterature"), watch dirty movies, and have a weekly goal with DH of having sex 3-4 times per week. This goal comes ahead of housework, and BTW, my house quite honestly is a total mess!

DH and I had great chemistry when we started dating, and we still do 7.5 years later, though we don't have sex nearly as frequently as we used to since becoming parents! Kids are awesome little cock blockers, aren't they!? The first 4 months postpartum we were hardly having any sex at all - and we kind of hated each other, too, which is not really a coincidence. That's why sex needs to be made an active priority once you have kids, or it probably won't happen - if you need to schedule it then do that - there's no shame in it!! ;) Anyway, we've definitely had our share of conflict but it's never been about sex. I know I married the right guy for me - the compatibility in so many areas of life, including sexuality and sick sense of humor, were there right away and have never faded. We had sex very shortly after the first date (which was not my norm but I couldn't keep my hands off him!) and he was terrific. We were older when we met, and had had plenty of sex partners before we got together, so we had a very clear picture of what we wanted & needed in a partner. No offense to those who never got to test drive their permanent cars, but I think this information about someone you're going to spend the rest of your life with in approximately 50% of all cases (smile, smile) truly makes a world of difference! IMHO god loves us and she wants us to be happy... so get out there and have premarital sex (aka "go to college")!! I'm also grateful that my DH is a hottie who works out like a fiend and has "cougars" chasing him - which also totally sparks my desire for him. He's a total DILF and I'm one lucky MILF!

@Claire, I am so sorry that you are unhappy with your sex life, and that you cannot have an honest dialogue with your DH because you say you are "terrified of hurting his feelings." Think about that statement for a minute. The truth is, as the mother in your family, your own feelings ought to matter more. If you really want it, then you most certainly deserve to have a life filled with earth-shatteringly good sex. Yes, you are worth it!!! And I am so glad you have a vibrator and are comfortable using it. FWIW, it is perfectly normal for many women to have clitorally-stimulated orgasms only, instead of vaginally-stimulated orgasms. There's nothing wrong with you if you can't cum the way you think you ought to! As long as you are able to have an orgasm someway, somehow, then you're all good!

I certainly don't mean to sound preachy and alarmist here, but I honestly think that a marriage in which you do not feel safe enough to be your vulnerable, authentic self; and where you are unable to have simple conversations about your critical life needs, is just not a marriage worth living. There's a reason you reached out to Moxie - I think you're ready to make some changes. I'm clearly not one of those old-school "Save the marriage at all costs!!" types-- I'm of the "Life is way too short" camp. I don't know whether or not change is going to possible for you in your marriage, but you won't know until you try. And it's time to try. I'm really encouraged by the way you have framed the problem as one where you and your DH both have agency, and you're seeing a pattern in the choices you've made that have resulted in you having had 7 years of bad sex. I suggest you get the names of some licensed sex therapists in your area, and make some "getting to know" you appointments with a handful of them before picking one. Give DH the choice to participate with you or not, but either way, my advice is that you start going yourself. By all means, be perfectly honest with your DH, and at the very least give him the chance to address these problems with you. The absolute worst thing you could do right now is nothing.

[SarcastiCarrie]

To the poster whose husband wanted spontaneity and she thought she needed to schedule it so she'd actually have time and go through with it...who says you have to tell him that you mentally scheduled "seduce husband" on your Thursday calendar right after "give cat heartworm medicine" and "pack lunches for Friday"? He need not know. He will appreciate and might reciprocate. Who knows?

[anonforthis]

Anyone else's husband refuse to have sex while you were pregnant? Once I started getting kind of big my husband literally could not make himself do it. I was crushed. I felt beautiful and healthy and yes, sexy (and for the first time in many years not worried about whether I looked fat). He said the logistics were just too hard. Whatever.

Things went back to normal (sex once a week if we're lucky--always good and I almost always orgasm, manually) after our son was born, but that hurt is still in the back of my mind a little. I'm another one who would do it every night if I could, but he doesn't seem to need that (or isn't willing to go to bed at the same time as me for that purpose, anyway). I have no interest in masturbating these days, either--for me it's being with him that turns me on.

I feel like so many men would love to have a wife with a sex drive like mine--it's my bad luck to have paired up with a person whom I couldn't live without but who is very mismatched with me in this way.

[anonanon]

I disagree with the premise that sex is the barometer of the relationship. I think it is a 'part' of the relationshop -- just like all the other parts. Some couples have trouble with some parts and others have trouble with other parts, but having trouble with a certain part isn't a negative referendum on the whole.

If there is trouble with sex then it needs to be addressed aggressively, but I think couples can be very happy and fulfilled with one another while still having a glitch in their sex life. My Dh and I are not always on the same page, sexually, and we work on it when we have the time and energy (that is, every 2 weeks or so, with 2 under 2!). But our relationship is rock-solid in every other way, so I don't feel like our less-than-I'd-like frequency means our whole relationship is also 'less-than-I'd-like.' Our marriage is is good shape. If we had sex more, it would be in great shape. When we're ready to, we will. We're both ok with that.

[Christiana]

My husband likes to learn - he likes to try new things and change it up periodically. We got this deck of cards that's like kama sutra cards or something and sometimes we find new positions to try that way. We don't always keep them in the repitoire, but it can help to try something new to mix it up.

Honestly, in my experience, you're better off to talk to him about your complaints, etc. If you expect him to just change without calling his attention to the fact that you have a problem, then you're probably going to be disappointed.

[Jan]

This may be totally off base, but after reading the original question, and now after reading your earlier comment, Claire, I wonder if maybe the vibrator/masturbating isn't part of the problem. You might try going without that for a while and see what happens.

Your husband is probably never going to be as efficient as a vibrator. I wonder if your expectations are skewed by regular use of one. Not to mention your sensitivity in that area could be affected.

Think of it this way. If you were eating red-hot chili peppers for breakfast every morning, the subtle flavors of even the best gourmet meal at a restaurant at lunchtime would probably be pretty bland. But there's an argument that you're missing out on those subtle flavors by overpowering them with the wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am peppers.

I know from experience that sometimes the choice between a 30-minute foreplay-leads-to-lovemaking session and a 30-second quick trip to O-town is a no-brainer. The latter does the job, doesn't require any birth control or cleanup or consideration of somebody else's needs and gets me an extra half hour of sleep. Blah blah blah intimacy and all that, but it's the half hour of sleep that tips the scales.

Will your husband watch porn with you? Maybe you can watch together and you could whisper into his ear when you see something you'd like to see duplicated in your own bedroom?

You say that he doesn't care about your needs, but if he has tried oral sex and you've cut it short (especially if you TOLD him you cut it short because it "wasn't going anywhere"), maybe he doesn't feel like he can compete with your vibrator?

As I said, I could be totally off base, but that's my read. Why not try taking the vibrator/self-stimulation off the table for a week or two and see what happens? You might find that you have more of an appreciation for (or more of an incentive to cultivate) other forms of stimulation than you think you do.

(P.S. I hope this isn't coming off like "oh, it's all your fault." Sexual compatibility is totally a shared responsibility. But you can really only control your own behavior and reactions, so that's what I'm focusing on.)

[alsoanon]

Thnk you, Moxie. This issue has been on my mind lately.

For us, the spark was there initially, then tapered off. Activity was still adequate, but routine. He'd make efforts to please, and they'd work, but always routine. Even then, there were few other trappings of romance. He's thoughtful, but not in that way. To him, keeping up with chores and pulling his weight says "I love you." He doesn't respond much to steamy kisses or flirting, and he doesn't know how to speak that language. I think romance and attraction should be part of our every day interactions. He seems to understand those concepts but isn't able to (interested in?) implement them.

Now, 18 months after Baby, there's been nothing. There was nothing for a few months before, either. We've talked about it some, and he knows I'm interested, but nothing. DH has some health issues that make him tired, and that, plus Baby use up all his energy, it seems. We tried to talk about it before Baby. I've tried some since, although not lately. He doesn't even seem to notice or care. This is par for the course--I bring up things that I think could be better, different. He sees this as finding fault. Talking through problems doesn't come easily to him.

I don't have a solution now, but I'm very glad to be able to read others' comments. They give me some specific ideas. It's also comforting to hear that there are others with the same challenges. I thought it was me/us.

[anonnie]

Um, @anonanon who said "I disagree with the premise that sex is the barometer of the relationship." The thing is, I used to agree with you, and naively thought our ho-hum but existent, post-baby sex life was perfectly ok.

Turns out I was speaking only for myself, when out of nowhere my husband left me for another woman.

@Anon;) @ 8:45am - that totally could've been been written by me. It is heartbreaking to be rejected like this, and I'm so sorry I'm not alone.

[anontoday]

Here's my data point:

I've been with my husband going on 11 years, with 8.5 of them married. We were seriously sexually active until I became pregnant with my oldest (4.5). Since then, we average 2-3x a week. We were that weirdo couple who had sex before the 6 week mark (actually before the 4 week mark) and I had to sheepishly admit it to the doctor at my postpartum checkup. We have had our dry spells and our boring-sex spells and here's what works for us:

If I'm the one who's bored, *I* need to speak up, because he won't. Any time I've wanted to try something new, I spend weeks (months? in one case a couple of years) getting up the nerve to suggest it. Without fail, he (sometimes immediately) responds enthusiastically. But he has never ever suggested trying something new himself. Apparently he never gets bored? I also think he's shy about picking things out. We have a gift certificate to goodvibrations that a girlfriend sent me and he always makes excuses to not look at the website. I'll probably end up ordering myself, which is too bad because there are some things I'd like to try but don't want to care him. :-)

We do have different sex drives. Mine is higher. I've had to grow a thicker skin because it used to upset me if he was too tired for sex (not a medical problem - see 2-3x/week)

The cleaning as foreplay thing goes both ways. Took me a while to figure that out. Our cleaning is shared, but if he feels put out or overburdened, then he definitely doesn't want sex.

The pill is terrible for my sex drive. hooray for the paraguard!

[toolittlesleep]

This post is really stirring up a lot of feelings in me that I had pushed to the background after the birth of my kids. I don't know if this is a good thing, but I'm starting to get angry that I have basically allowed our sex life to suck for the past 9 or so years.

The times I decided to ask for more were always met with a wall or some very lukewarm attempt that left me feeling even more miserable.

And I could have written this Claire:
"And that's the other thing, because I have to ask, it makes me feel like there's something wrong with me or that he's disgusted by me, so instead of feeling like I'm "forcing" him to do something he doesn't want to do (therefore having a terrible time inside my head if he IS down there; "oh god, he doesn't like this. It's taking too long. What if he's tired? Oh god, hurryhurryhurry. Oh, just forget it!"), I just would prefer him to not do anything... hence the past four years."

I have asked him way in the beginning of our relationship for "more" like "hey, maybe I should come too" or however I put it and it basically led to NOTHING. Then I would ask him to touch me this way or that way while he'd be fumbling around and instead of trying to figure out what I liked or asking me for direction, he would either stop or he would do it the way I asked for about two seconds. WTF? I just don't even know if a video would work because it may just seem too obvious to him that I"m trying to teach him something which God forbid would be the worst thing possible. It's like he loves the fact that I am a strong woman, know what I want etc. but I am not allowed to direct it at him because then I'm "criticizing" him. Fragile ego anyone? And perhaps a tad bit selfish too. That part is hard for me to swallow because he is a considerate husband and father otherwise basically living his life for us. So what gives?

Oh by the way I am 3 months post-partum so my emotions are running amok (not to mention I am wildly sleep deprived).

Hey, maybe sex for him is like handling an infant. He doesn't have much patience for crying etc. and he feels powerless which in turn frustrates the heck out of him and makes him angry. Maybe it's the same w/ sex. Maybe he doesn't know what to do so he just gets angry and frustrated when I try to tell him what to do. Weird analogy, but could be true.

[anon]

If you only orgasm with a vibrator, that could be the problem. Your body is trained to be stimulated only by the vibrator, which makes it difficult to find stimulation from other things. Drop the vibrator for a while. Try getting orgasms other ways. Plus, do some of the other stuff that people suggest to spice things up with your husband. Try hugging, touching, and kissing throughout the day, too.