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hush

@nej - I'm the one whose 14 month old recently tripped and fell while walking across the kitchen floor... on DH's watch, so he felt incredibly guilty, and basically for no good reason. It was a freak accident. They happen. Now DH is Mr. Paranoid. I hope that eventually changes, and he goes back to throwing DS in the air and all of that fun stuff. I think it will.

I'm the mom who takes my baby skiing & hiking with me, lets him climb all over the couch, lets him eat multiple new foods at the same time... many things that others would probably say are way too risky for their own comfort. We live an active lifestyle. I want to teach my children to be fearless & enjoy life. That's part of what I bring to the parenting table.

DH is the more measured one. He'll teach the health & safety lessons. He's always thinking of the bad things that might happen. So we balance each other out. It's good for us, and I think it's healthy for our son. It's an ongoing negotiation process. Sometimes we're out of balance - we try to check ourselves so that we're making decisions out of love/growth, instead of fear.

It sounds like you are good about checking yourself for "too much micromanaging." I like what Michelle said about making the parent who created the mess (skipped nap) clean it up, so to speak. I wonder if the throwing was bound to happen sooner or later at his age, whether or not he took him to the bar. (Yeah, I wouldn't have been a big fan of that one either!) I don't love it when DH watches Sunday football for hours while playing with DS. But then I figure he's the one who will be teaching him how to be a good man, and a little TV with a Daddy who loves him won't hurt!

Sara Maria

I don't think this is light-hearted at all, this is much more relevant to me than breast-pumps (at this point in motherhood) or playground rules (I don't live in a big city in the US). If I had read that last paragraph of Moxie's post two years ago I'd maybe done a little bit of necessary self-reflection.

Also, I read Moxie's blog because she's Moxie. If I'm only interested in factual information, Google does it for me.

I spent far too much time reading and writing blogs, fiction and poetry while my child was asleep and pouring all my energy into my kid when he was awake (because OF COURSE I want to be SuperMom) rather than fixing our relationship.

My boyfriend on the other hand (who did all the laundry/dishes/cooking while I was SuperMom), started chatting online. With girls. And ended up sleeping with one of them, a rather unexciting and not particularly beautiful girl who meant absolutely nothing to him, but she was really nice to him and gave him the positive feedback and confirmation he desparately craved from me and didn't get.

(A short and very extracted version of a story I told very differently prior to relationship therapy, believe me. And I don't think it's ok to cheat no matter how selfish, rejecting and non-task-sharing your partner is, I just didn't realise I'd been so unpleasant. And I think I'd have been a lot more prone to cheating too, had I felt the way he did. Oh, and if you're reading this and have just been cheated on, check out beyondaffairs.com)

On mere eye-candy: I really don't mind if he thinks Angelina Jolie looks better than me because, well, she actuallly does, and I think Brad Pitt looks better than him to. Of course, the better I think I look, the easier it is to accept that I'm not the only or prettiest woman in town, so maybe I'll feel worse about it when I'm 55 and the eye candy is 25? And not born yet...

And I don't feel guilty over thinking about how incredibly goodlooking BP is. Or that Mexican actor. It's when real and reachable people are the object of temporary desire that it becomes not OK.

Nej: I struggled with this a lot more when the child was younger and more vulnerable. Hope there's a little dash of comfort in that. There comes a day when he doesn't fall down stairs because he knows how to walk them.

mhati

so i am not welcome here? thats nice? because I dont want to talk about having onscreen crushes with the boys on queer as folk?

nej: there certainly differences in parenting and i think in general this is a good thing. However, if your husbands idea of an afternoon activity is to take your son to the bar that is where you to draw the line. There are plenty of other places you can throw things! ow about sharing the list of fun things to do around the neighborhood if he is out of ideas?

hedra

@nej, no time to read other replies, and really no time to answer, but answering anyway:

1) researchers recently showed that having TWO DIFFERENT PARENTING STYLES (where both are warm and respectful, but one is very much 'oh, you poor thing I'm here for you' and the other is 'hey, you fell, you're fine, get up and shake it off, now what else can you do?') results in increased emotional resilience, less fragility, more self-assurance. BIG shock to the researchers, who thought it would be best to have two 'in there' parents. WRONG. We evolved with two humans as parents (plus assorted others). Different ones.

Therefore the issue isn't 'style' but 'warmth and respect' - that makes it easier for you to allow room for his style, identify what areas of his response are important, and communicate the difference.

It also means you can learn from him, which makes it easier for him to hear ideas from you, too.

I have a TON more to say on this, but it will have to wait. Someone is waiting on edits from me, and I MUST go do them.

More later...

hydrogeek

@nej - I think I read the same study as hedra and others mentioned (maybe it was linked here on askmoxie at one point?) and it comforted me greatly. I think the key was mentioned above. You have to discuss these parenting differences when you're not in the heat of the moment.

Oddly enough, my husband is the one worrying about dd climbing on the couch, and I'm the one saying "If she falls she'll be fine." However, he's much more likely to mess with the nap schedule or whatever and not think it's a big deal while I'm having a meltdown over it. We balance each other I think. Maybe that's the important part.

Karen

Ouch, that last paragraph hurt. :)

Johnny Depp is my eye candy; I've been loyal since I was ten years old. Sigh.

hush

@mhati - Who said you aren't welcome here? I'll kick 'em! ;) Could you please go back to the previous page & read what I actually wrote to you? Thank you!!

Whether you are welcome or not is not for anyone but you to say! However, when I keep reading negative comments from you that are critical of this space, like you're banging you head against the wall because you hate the direction she's taken, then the reasonable person's conclusion is that clearly, there is a fit issue going on.

Now in all seriousness, may I please ask you something? You seem angry. Is there something you'd like to talk about today?

Cloud

@mhati- I won't speak for hush or the others, but what I find off-putting about your comments is the giant chip you seem to have on your shoulder. It reads like you are coming to a party and telling the host that her dress is ugly and her food tastes bad. Why do you come then?

This is Moxie's blog- she can write about whatever she wants. She put in the hard work and time to build up a community, and as far as I'm concerned, she can take that where she wants. If she puts up a topic you aren't interested in, just don't read it and the comments. If the topics are in general not interesting to you, then you probably should find another place to hang out online. Not because you aren't welcome here, but because it isn't what you want it to be and like it or not, Moxie doesn't have to make it what you want it to be.

AmyinTexas

No time to read the comments... but I'm with you, Moxie. If you have a healthy relationship a little eye candy is no big deal. My husband and I both will admire a pretty woman, and I have no problem doing the same to a handsome man.

But, having been in a failing marriage before this one, I know that there are all kinds of ways to escape that have nothing to do with eye candy.

Anything you do in excess to distract you from your reality--from porn to eating to reading blogs to oggling others--is probably a sign that something is wrong.

ikate

It's funny because when I read this post all I thought about was my eye candy but now that I came back and read it closer I realize how right Moxie is in her last paragraph. I know a couple of moms, both 10-15 years older then me, whose relationships went off the rails when the need to be SuperMom diminished as their kids got older. One eventually realized the relationship issue and divorced and the other has been having one emotional affair (and maybe sexual) affair after another for the past few years and finding any and every reason not to be around her hubby (taking up ballet, tap, scrap-booking weekends away, taking her girls on vacation and "forgetting" to tell hubby about it until it was too late for him to take time off work, etc). It's kind of sad to watch but divorce isn't in her vocabulary so she won't consider it, instead she loses herself in the distraction of the week - whatever it or he might be.

Kathy

I agree with so much that has been said about healthy relationships having room for eye candy, but secret crushes and addictions (whether porn or Sudoku) are dangerous.

I just want to add that eye candy is a little different for my husband and me when it comes to _exercise_. Our Wii Fit "personal trainers" are both opposite-sex. It's not so much that we enjoy observing a beautiful body while we exercise, though that's true. It's that looking at a perfect specimen (even digitally-rendered!) of our own sex while exercising makes us dwell on how not-ideal our own bodies are. Feeling bad about your body is bad exercise mojo.

So, he doesn't have to look at Mr. Muscles while working out, and I don't have to look at Ms. No-Tummy-Flab. And we're both happy! :-)

Strugi

@Nej

I wish I had actual advice. I have an almost two year old boy and I have a real love/hate relationship with his lack of fear. On the one hand what a wonderful way to lead life without fear of injury-even being able to say whatever you want. On the other hand I want to protect him. I try to step back and decide whether or not my own fears are well grounded. So yes, my son should run, ski, moonbounce, and ride his tricycle at the local skate park during toddler time. Sometimes I even ask my husband to take him to those events because I know he won't mother him as much as I would. But, there are activities that don't work for me, not to say that they are bad or that they would cause any damage, just that they would not make me comfortable. You have my sympathy and thank you for making me think about how I deal with it in my own home.

General thought on topics: I think that discussions are always going to have some topics that interest some people more than others. Parenting happens with all ages of children, there have even been discussions here of parenting adult children. Also, it seems that ultimately, an important part of being a good parent is also being good to yourself, so some degree of introspection, especially at the end of the year. I don't want my son to have the same issues I have, in order for me to help prevent it, I have to stop and accept what my issues are.

Shandra

@nej - My mantra is "roots and wings." You need both, and wings maybe have some risks.

To me it's worth a bit of lost sleep and a few scrapes to have a good relationship... I personally think it's relationships that sustain our kids when they are older and, say, need to call Dad to pick them up when they are drunk.

Like other people have said, I pick my battles, and I try to do it calmly and take responsibility like... "this really bothers ME and even if it's silly can we talk about it?"

This is how my son had his worst accident and got a scar (after stitches!) on his heel at about 14 months old... he was walking, in the kitchen, with a push-toy. He fell, and kicked his heel up under the counter and split it open. My husband and I were both standing right there, flat surface, what we thought was really safe. Ha.

Doesn't keep me from occasionally being the safety police though. :)

Foster

Back when we were dating, I made a comment to a friend, in front of dh, about how I thought that Chris Cornel was hot. Later, dh told me that it hurt his feelings when I said things like that. Since then, I have never made such comments in front of him, nor has he ever said that another chick was hot. I havent even given it any thought in the last six years until you posted this! Huh. B/c of this, I really, fully trust him to not have wandering eyes & I hope that he trusts me as much!

Julie

We talk all the time about who we think is hot... we both enjoy some good eye candy. My husband can also be a great girlfriend too though, because I'm 36 weeks pregnant, fat, uncomfortable, bloated.....and instead of saying "wow, she's hot" he'll make some snarky girlfriend remark.....so even though I know he's checking her out it still makes me feel good when I am looking soooooooo bad.

@nej I completely understand the difficulty of having some conflict between what you consider appropriate and what your husband thinks is okay/safe/appropriate. It's SO hard because if your situation is anything like mine, it's easy to get bent out of shape when they make decisions in the moment that SEEM fun, but will end up impacting YOU later on (like delaying bedtime and getting really silly, which means that they get to have all the fun and then you have to come in later and be the bad cop and settle everyone down for bed again....which will also lead to disruptive sleep because too late to bed means not enough sleep and only Mommy will do in the middle of the night while your dh snores away on the pillow next to you and you are running back and forth getting this and that and trying to comfort a kid who is tired, overstimulated and wants to sleep but JUST CAN'T. For example...ahem. Sorry).

My advice is to - as best you can - honor their relationship, try to remove yourself from managing it, appreciate the special relationship they are building together - even if that means some inconvennience to you later on. Believe me, it's worth it. Especially as they get older. As for the throwing stuff (or other things that they think is funny in the moment but ends up causing problems later on) I always try to frame things in the "we" instead of the "you". That way responsibility is shared for whatever decision is made and no one gets defensive about a bad decision - because we all make them. So "Gosh...this throwing thing is getting out of hand...I guess we shouldn't have been laughing so much/encouraging it so much. He's just too young to know yet when it's appropriate to throw things for fun and when it's not."

@mhati, I'm sorry you are feeling so disappointed in recent threads...perhaps an email to moxie directly would be a better way for you to voice your disappointment? Since she is the one to decide the direction of her blog, you might be more effective going directly to the source and not vent in the comments section. I am also wondering (and am a little concerned) about what it might be that you feel you want to talk about and if there is a way we can address some of your pressing questions so you aren't so frustrated. You sound like you are at the end of your rope.

I think this site is evolving as Moxie evolves...which is a good thing. The best thing though is that since she's been doing this for many years, all of her previous posts are archived, and pretty much any and every baby/toddler/eat/sleep/poop question has been asked and commented on. Maybe send your new mom friends to her archives as a first step? Having been a reader of Moxie for almost 3 years now, I sometimes find topics that do not interest me, are not relevant to me, and I don't read/comment. And sometimes I find a topic that I feel has been addressed every which way until Tuesday and I think "this problem again???" Because I am familiar with many of the commenters and their philosophies, I can pretty much guess who is going to say what in the comments section. I imagine it is very difficult for Moxie to balance questions that have been asked and answered for one group of people and still keep it fresh and interesting for another group of people who have been along for the ride and read all of it before. At the end of the day, it's her blog. Like Cloud said, she worked hard to build this community of readers, we enjoy being here or we wouldn't be here anymore. No one is forcing you to check in every day. Which I think is what Hush's comment was about. If it's no longer meeting your needs, why bother? There are tons of resources out there for new moms. Best of luck to you, and I hope you find the answers you are looking for.

brigita

In no particular order:

Jason Bateman (circa Arrested Development)
Stephen Colbert
Eric Dane (aka Dr. Sloane on Grey's)

Oh yeah.

Jenny

Can't believe no one has mentioned Jon Stewart.

Shalini

Yes I agree that Sanjay Gupta would be really nice to look at and listen to when dispensing his medical advice... sigh... finally good looking men in govt...

But I loved Patrick Dempsey when he was in his cute nerd phase..and I totally love him now in his grown up scruffy phase.. but still Eric Dane is nothing to sneeze at...

Ok wayyyyy too much invested into this whole eye candy thing...

But seriously as long as the communication thing is there in the primary (aka REAL) relationship then it shouldn't be threatening if say I love to watch Grey's Anatomy all the time, or Say have Eric Dane pictures up.. (no i don't really)...

hehe..

Claudia

All this eye candy talk spurred a heck of a dream last night. That's one thing that an established relationship will not give you: The excitement and rush of a new conquest. The anticipation of the first kiss. So I guess I get that experience in dreams now. I don't feel guilty whatsoever.

My DH never mentions who he thinks is hot, nor does he check out other people in any obvious way. I occasionally mention the hotness of someone, but not in a "I lust for this person" way.

As for the parenting style question, I'd just echo what others have said. Pick the really important issues, and have a calm talk about it when you're not in the heat of the moment.

As for the Ask Moxie content, I sympathize. I've asked a parenting question that was pretty urgent and messing up even my work life, and it was passed up. I got frustrated to come here day after day to see Moxie asking her own questions. But I keep coming, because hope springs eternal, and because I still enjoy the direction that comments take, regardless of the original question.
Now I know that if necessary, I can just hijack a thread ;)

akeeyu

Hugh Jackman as wolverine. But I think he'd have to shave a little, because that hair would totally chafe.

I agree with Nancy, who said it's a bit sexist. Are we expected to believe that the husband in question never/doesn't/won't cast an appreciative eye towards attractive women? I would have to call serious bullshit on that idea.

In light of that, I would advise the husband to treat his wife as he would like to be treated in that situation. If the relationship needs new boundaries drawn, that's fine, but he has to play by those rules, too.

akeeyu

Oh, and I guess I always have the same reaction to disgruntled readers of any blog:
You're being offered a free service, be it advice, entertainment, recipes, etc. Under the circumstances, it's tricky to enforce money back guarantees and quality assurance programs. Act accordingly.

Johanna

I haven't yet read through all of the comments, but has anyone mentioned President-elect Obama and the future First Lady? Oh, such a fine looking First Couple. My husband and I have talked numerous times about how this will be the best looking White House in ages. :-)

Slim

nej

In the grand scheme of things, yeah, what other people have said about different parenting styles, blah blah blah

On the other hand, I have a peerless spouse whose peerlessness does not preclude what I think of as cluenessness. Do not rile up the kids just before bed! Do not tune out early-stage bickering right before dinner, when things can go so sour, so quickly. Gah!

I had a talk with him one evening after something I thought was a Really Bad Idea did indeed have Really Bad Results. I said that if I saw him doing something I thought might go inconveniently awry, I would give him a sign, but after that, I would be leaving him to clean up his mess, in effect: You figure out how to get wound-up kids to sleep, because I am going to step out. And sometimes he heeds warnings and sometimes he doesn't, but I don't get bothered now that I know there's something in it for me.

If he were doing something that was really unsafe, I would speak up more -- "Watch out for the coffee table!" -- but again, unless it's a knife-throwing contest, I am working on the fine art of shutting up.

Erin

@Chris and Shandra, I am so glad there are other people who appreciate the men of BNL like I do!

I tend to vary between funny, sweet guys like Zachary Levi and John Krasinski to the dark, brooding guys like Milo Ventimiglia, Johnny Depp and Julian McMahon. Yum.

A general appreciation for an attractive person isn't a bad thing. When it becomes a hinderance to your relationship is where you have the problem.

hedra

@slim, that's one of the other things I was going to bring in - the fine art of not stepping in, either to solve, or to clean up, at least while working out the boundaries of the relationships. NOW, after years of practice, we tend to spot the weak points on the other, and step in, but in a team style. That's 11 years in, though.

The thing that I learn on the stepping out part is that I have to assume that he can handle everything if I was hit by a bus. Which means I need to let him handle everything, as if I was periodically totally unavailable. I cannot step in. I cannot rescue. I cannot smugly stand by and watch the catastrophe, knowing the's going to have to suck it up afterwards and gloating about the lesson he's about to learn. I did that one time, and found out it was me who was about to learn a lesson - my methods were actually less effective than his. Uh, whoops?

I practiced intentionally pretty early on, letting him take the full range of responses to all situations, because he was quitting his job to stay home. It is something I could wish on every couple, that the dad must care for a baby or toddler or preschooler nonstop for at least a few weeks. It sets the reality, and it sets the skills. They start trusting themselves, and we start trusting them.

On the roughhousing, we have certain principles (Safe Respectful Kind, for instance), and we have some rules that have come from those - no throwing things not meant to be thrown (trucks, china, siblings), and no throwing in places where throwing is not intended (kitchen, church, bathtub). If you have a ball, you may roll it in the house, but you may not throw it. Etc. Last night we had the discussion that soccer is not an inside game (at least not in a tiny house like ours).

Do we break the rules? Yes. Judiciously, but yes. Silliness is allowed.

We also allow more rough play than I initially was comfortable with. That's because of the OT workup done with both older kids (and Miss M, too). With the elder two, they were each assessed for sensory issues, and it turned out that the compulsive leaping on each other and tearing around and flinging themselves off things and throwing and wrestling and dogpile-on-the-brother stuff was all part of sensory processing development. Nearly everything I'd told them to STOP DOING was on the list I was given of things they SHOULD DO. Um. Whoops, again? The problem became not 'how to keep them from trying to stimulate their sensory processing' and instead morphed into 'how to help them stimulate those systems SAFELY ENOUGH that I don't cause my brain to melt'. We got a mini trampoline. We let the kids race around in circles and careen into each other. We notice (or try) when they're particularly jumpy/kicky/throwy/hitty, and encourage them to go jump on the trampoline or swing on the swings or climb something or carry around something heavy or push chairs or be squashed under sofa cushions by their siblings. If it comes down to a fight between my authority and their vestibular system's demands, I know who wins, and it ain't me. I can't beat them, so I adjust the rules so they can win safely, no more than that.

For us, the winding up before bed isn't the problem - we NEED them to race around and be crazy before bed, the problem comes in only if we stop them too soon or don't provide enough large-motor activity in the process. Just racing around isn't good enough - a long round of jumping on the mini tramp until they're actually TIRED is what is needed. Get them started and their bodies will remember that they're starving for the sensory input, and will not stop until they're full. The dad roughousing thing can work for you, if you make sure it has a full range of spinning, rolling, squashing, pulling on joints, bouncing, and weight lifting, and in the right range of time (they do still need to come down a bit, but it takes less time if they did the full bore effort instead of just getting into it before being told to stop).

For other issues, I agree with talking when calm, not when there's a problem still beating at me. And just like problem-solving with a child, put the problem on the other side of the line, and you and your spouse on the same side together. WE have a problem. I need this, you enjoy that, I worry because I forsee problem, you definitely need something else, I'm SURE we can find a solution that suits us all, but I'm going to need your help finding it. Do you have any ideas?

That sort of thing. Good luck!

z

matt damon
sean biggerstaff (the guy who played oliver wood in the harry potter movies)


Sarah

Any other sci fi dorks out there? Well if not Battlestar Galactica has tons of hotties of both genders. My husband sweats over Cylon #6 while I ogle whoever the actor is that plays Helo... The storyline is great and thought provoking, the acting is mediocre, but oh the eye candy...

Totally healthy and it's sort of exciting to remember that my husband is still fundamentally a man even though he does the laundry and is a nurse.


Jac

@Hush - right there with you about Bill Compton from True Blood!. Mmmmmmm.

Kristin

Like Amy mentions above, I was going to observe that my husband and I chuckle together over our collective eye candy. I think it's the one he DIDN'T tell me about, or the one I suddently didn't feel I could talk to him about, so we could laugh over it, that I'd be worrying about!

MaggieO

Enu -- HAHAHAHA, you're so right...Christopher Eccleston all the way! I think, of the old Who, Peter Davison is definitely the runner up!

Anna

@Rbelle--Oh man, I hear you on Morning Marketplace Report! I also have a bit of a voice crush on Michael Franti and Wyclef. Sexy.

hush

@Jac - I credit "True Blood" & The Sookie Stackhouse novels (which I started reading after the first episode of the show) with causing a very significant spike in my libido ever since September. After the infamous graveyard scene, I NEEDED DH to give it to me! Naturally, DH encourages my Bill obsession, and likewise, I encourage his for Jessica Biel. Her derriere is one for the record books. ;)

liz

Alton Brown is definitely my celebrity boyfriend. A geek who can cook! Fortunately, that describes my husband as well.

Jenny

I can't have just one piece of candy at a time, so I'm going to say Hugh Jackman, David Beckham, and my all-time-favorite Jon Bon Jovi.

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  • My expertise is in helping people be who they want to be, with a specialty in how being a parent fits into everything else. I like people. I like parents. I think you're doing a fantastic job. The nitty-gritty of what you do with your kids is up to you, although I'm happy to post questions here to get data points of how you could try approaching different stages, because, let's face it, this shit is hard. As for me, I have two kids who sleep through the night and can tie their own shoes. I've been a married SAHM, a married freelance WAHM, a divorcing WOHM, a divorced WOHM, and now a WAHM again. I'm not buying the Mommy Wars and I'll come sit next to you no matter how you're feeding your kid. When in doubt, follow the money trail. And don't believe the hype.
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