Q&A: 4-year-old and death

Ally writes:

"My grandmother is dying of cancer, and I am conflicted over whether or not it would be ok to have my 4 year old boy at the funeral home for a little while. We've talked to him about death plenty, as my mother passed away unexpectedly last fall although they were not close enough for it to have a long-lasting impact. What I am unsure about is that there will probably be an open casket. I have issues with that myself, partly because I want to be cremated once I die because to me once you're gone, you're gone and your body is just the vessel that is left behind. But I also was very deeply impacted by my grandfather's passing when I was 14. He and my other grandmother raised me, his death was the most awful thing that could possibly happen at the time, and I was completely freaked out by my grandmother kissing and touching his dead body.

So, a 4 year old and an open casket - inappropriate? Or is it just me?

And since I am writing about death and my 4 year old, I may as well toss this in. We have a 13 year old dog that has cushings disease and at some point we'll either no longer be able to afford to treat it or we'll have to put him to sleep because the medication isn't effective any more. A couple of years ago before he was diagnosed and there was a good chance he'd die of old age my husband and I talked about what we would do if he died at home. In that scenario we are both comfortable with giving our son a chance to say goodbye before taking care of the body. Now that we are facing euthanasia, I don't know what the best thing to do is. I don't want to make up something and just have him disappear. But I don't know how up front to be about the euthanasia part. How do you explain to a preschooler that you are putting a pet to sleep? Is it appropriate to do so?

I typically shoot for honesty above sugar coating things, but again, I have a bad situation in my past where we had to put a beloved dog down because she started behaving in a way that couldn't be managed by us. So I can't think very clearly about this."

I completely think the open casket thing is cultural, nothing more. In my culture of origin, open casket is the norm, and to not do it would be disrespectful to the deceased person, and also everyone would worry that the survivors didn't get to have closure because they couldn't actually see that the person was dead.

I didn't know that everyone didn't do open casket until I was an adult, and my first reaction was that people who had closed casket were avoiding the normal grieving process! So it just goes to show that different things work for different people. One person's unbelievably creepy is another's normal, and one person's repressed and avoidant is another person's respectful.

Having said that, I can remember going to open casket visiting hours from a very young age (around 4) and not being creeped out by the body, but finding it interesting that it was so obvious that this was just Uncle Joe's body, but Uncle Joe himself wasn't there anymore. It made the difference between alive and dead really concrete for me as a kid in a matter-of-fact way. But that probably had to do with the fact that the adults there were all confortable with open casket themselves, and had grown up with it, too, so it was just a given.

So my answer is that it's not going to hurt your son to see your grandmother's body in the open casket, but if you don't think you will react well to it yourself, then you shouldn't be the one with him, or you shouldn't bring him. As to your question, it sounds like you think open casket is inappropriate in general, so this really doesn't have anything specifically to do with your son. If you decide you can deal with it, bring him. If you think it'll be too strange for all of you, then don't come. He'll be fine either way, as long as you're honest about what happened to your grandma and he gets a chance to express and feelings about her being gone.

Oh, the dog. It's so hard to lose a pet, and anticipating how your kids will react to it makes it even worse. But kids seem to be way better at accepting the circle of life than adults are.

When I had to put my sweet, elderly cat down a few years ago, my older son was 4 and my younger one was still a baby. I told my older son that Siggy was in a lot of pain, and that we had to "help her die" by giving her some medicine that would make her die. I believe in heaven so I added that in, but the "help her die" angle works pretty much universally, I'd guess. Euthanasia is an act of kindness, so approaching it that way is going to let you be honest about all angles of it. You can still be sad that the dog is sick and in pain, and that you'll miss the dog, but you know you're doing the thing that's best for the dog.

Anyone want to share what you told your kids about putting down a pet? What have your experiences been with death rituals for humans--open casket, closed casket, cremation, kids at visitation/wakes/shiva, etc.?

Comments

[Dawn]

My grandfather died when I was 6 (actually on my birthday, starting a chain of grandparents dying around my birthday, but that's another story). I attended the funeral, as did my 3 year old sister, but neither of us really remember it.

Four years later, my 16 month old brother died (unexpectedly, in a tragic accident when he got out of the house and drowned in the pool) and we also, obviously, attended his funeral, which was an incredibly traumatic experience, although I think if it weren't traumatic, that would be very strange. What I most distinctly remember from the services was that his body was cold and that was just wrong. That wrongness, in retrospect, really hits at the cosmic injustice of what happened, but that was my experience with funerals as a kid.

Last year, when my aunt's mother died, I talked to my 4 year old about it, but I decided to send her to preschool that day rather than take her to the service. Part of that was convenience, I guess, since I was the musical entertainment/distraction for the service, but part of it was that I felt she was old enough to understand that Fran had died and gone to heaven, but that perhaps seeing Fran's body would have confused her (it was an open casket). Also, there were no other children there, except for my then 6 month old baby. She asked some questions and periodically will ask if I think Fran is happy in heaven, but is otherwise fine.

I've got nothing on pets, sorry.

For the record, I do not recommend "The Fall of Freddy the Leaf." Some well meaning person gave us that book when my brother died and I absolutely hate it. Of course, maybe I'm letting my feelings about the situation cloud my opinion of a perfectly harmless book, who knows.

[Jamie]

I have a four year old and my mother-in-law died of advanced ovarian cancer this past May. After consulting with a renowned child development expert I decided to take my son to the funeral and also to the cemetery. It is important for children to be able to understand the finality of death, and to understand where the body goes when it dies. We basically explained my MIL's illness as her having a "disease"-- that this was different from being "sick" and that she was going to die. When she actually died we explained that her body stopped working and that it was like she had had her batteries taken out (toy analogy). My son really seemed to get this and the child development expert felt that it often was a good thing for preschool children to go to the cemetery b/c they are such concrete thinkers and by doing do they are able to see where the body goes. The one thing she suggested is that we have another family member w/whom my son is close to care for him during the funeral and service at the cemetery, so that we did not have to worry about him and he did not have to worry about us. We also tried to be very open about our grieving-- if my husband was sad he would cry in front of my son or if my son heard my husband crying downstairs I would explain what was going on. At the same time, we explained my husband's sadness, reassured my son that he would be alright, and told him that we did not plan to die for a long time (in response to his questions).

And, as an aside, I am also Jewish and have a different experience of Jewish funerals. I have never felt that kids are not welcome to either jewish funerals or shiva. In fact, kids are often a welcome addition to a shiva call as they bring joy (except perhaps at the solemn service every evening).

[Eva]

I saw my great-grandmother in her casket at age ten or so. Freaked me right the fuck out. Last year at a funeral for a friend of my husband's it was basically formed upon us to go individually to the open casket and look. Freaked me out too. Very disturbing.

I don't think small children belong at funerals. I've gotten sitters for my kid when we've had to go. It's like weddings and church and work meetings. They just can't sit there quietly and participate.

[shayneegray]

On the open-casket question, I just wanted to add my personal take. I didn't attend a funeral until I was 30 (just luck: the few--maybe 4--people whom I knew who had died prior to that didn't have funerals). I have to say, the thing that sticks with me about open-casket funerals is that is the only way I can remember those people without looking at pictures. When I try to recall them, the image that comes to mind is a body in a box, not a laughing, loving person. But that's my issue.

[Sharon aka Mommie Mentor]

I read a few of the posts and then had to really think about this. My first reaction comes from my heritage, I'm Jewish. Kate from 2:03 am, what are you doing up at that time? I digress; Kate has nailed the whole Jewish way of handling death.

Children are traditionally not allowed at a Jewish funeral or a Shiva unless it was their parent. After reading some of the posts I began to think about my educational perspective and my heritage, the two didn’t match. So I began to think about all the deaths in my life. Two of them came out of the blue when I was very young. One was my cousin who died at 16. He got very sick at a basketball game and passed out. He died two days later of acute leukemia. About 6 months after that my beloved favorite aunt died. What I remember most was the phone rang and then my father began to wail. As a child I’d never heard him cry and certainly never like this. I stayed awake that night imagining the worst. I made things up about illness and death and those made up images haunted me for a long time.

I haven't read all the comments and someone may have said the following.

I believe you need to tell the truth to a child and I believe you need to let the child lead the rest of the way. Tell them in preschool size words. The books mentioned are wonderful and will help with that part. See if the child has any questions and then observe them to see how they deal with the news and to see if they can handle attending the funeral, if that's permitted by the way your family handles death.

I’ve never been to an open casket funeral, however I firmly believe that your comfort level with this is key. Your comfort level will tell your child what he needs to know. He will see by your comfort, acceptance and tears that this is what we do when someone dies.

My grandmother died in my arms when my youngest was 3. He was such a comfort to me. He seemed to intuit what I needed at the time. Your children can bring you great peace and comfort as you grieve. Wee ones can be very sweet and may help to remind you about birth and death and the cycle of life.
I hope you find comfort as you deal with all of this.

[Betsy]

@Eva - I'm sorry you felt forced to see a dead body in an open casket, which was something you definitely didn't want to see either as a 10-year-old child, nor again as an adult. It sounds like open caskets are not part of your cultural norm. When you were a child, it sounds like you could've really benefited from a caring adult's acknowledgment of your terrified feelings. BTW, it's never too late to get that in a therapeutic setting. It would have been nice if someone had given you a choice in the matter.

I can understand why some people believe children should not be present at funerals. I echo everyone else here who has said it's really all about the cultural norms and the parent's comfort level with them. Personally, I feel lucky to have been raised in such a way that absolutely nothing about funerals scares me, and I can move cross-culturally within various grief traditions without any phobias. I think it's worth remembering that funerals, like life, are really for the living. If you don't think you are going to best honor the memory of someone by attending their funeral, then it's ok not to go.

[brandi]

Completely agree with Moxie on open casket. We exposed our children to it and it was no problem. They "got" it, ages 3 and 4.

But, FYI we once buried a beloved cat who had been put down. I figured we didn't need to use a shroud or box of any sort - dust to dust, you know? But when we started to cover up the cat's body, my oldest (5 at the time) started sobbing because his beautiful fur was getting dirty. I have to admit, it was far sadder that way and I wished we'd covered him or given him a box of some sort.

[Kate]

I wanted to really thank people for their comments. Although my husband and I lost several grandparents since we've been together, none were when the kids were at an age where it had to be discussed with them--but the last remaining member of that generation, DH's grandmother, is 96, and our kids do have a special relationship with her.

@ lynn, I hope you don't mind that I am going to borrow your phrasing. That is something that I think my 4yo would really worry over (the how long).

@ Jamie, like I said, I was speaking from a very traditional/Orthodox Jewish perspective that is further colored by my experience of marrying into a German Jewish family--in my ILs community women do go to the funeral but not to the burial, which is certainly not how it is in other communities. (My family is not nearly as religious; my maternal grandparents were cremated, which is not something that happens in the Orthodox world.)

@ Sharon: I feel like my late night ramblings kind of gave the Jewish rituals surrounding death the short shrift because of my lack of explanation (there are good reasons, both spiritual for the deceased and psychological for the mourners, to have the burial happen ASAP after death). But it's a lot to get into here.

[Ari]

Coming in late, but I'm a vet and thought I might (actually) have something helpful to add regarding pet situations. Re: having children attend a euthanasia with you. If you're going to be able to keep it together for your child, and your child is of an age where certain issues can be explained, I'm all for it. However, if yours is going to get euthanasia mixed up with vaccinations, as a PP mentioned, it's not appropriate. I've also had numerous families become very emotional, to the point that our receptionists or technicians have to help the children, and I worry about what they remember long term.
I think art projects are very helpful for kids mourning pets; decorating a casket (sounds creepy a lot of families bring in caskets or boxes that the pet is going home in, all decorated with flowers), having a little memorial, altar-type thing set up for the pet that the child can revisit.
On a slightly funnier note, I was helping a family say goodbye to their dog and we were discussing body care options. The husband wanted to have the body cremated, and get the ashes back, and the wife shot back, "What? So he can sit on the shelf in the closet next to your mother?"

[django's mommy]

My husband died 16 months ago, when our son was 2 1/2. I have been upfront with him and explained things to him in a straightforward, age-appropriate manner. For those of you looking for a non-religious book for kids, I highly recommend 'When Dinosaurs Die'. You can pick and choose the parts that are relevant to your situation.

I agree that if *you* are comfortable with the situation, your child will be. My husband was cremated, and my son has been present at 2 of the ash scatterings that have occurred. My grandmother died 3 days after my husband, and she was buried. So, I have explained to him that when people die, they either get a 'special box' or become 'special dust'. I don't think my son really understands that the ashes are the physical remains of his father, and that is fine. My experience has been that children will ask questions, and it's important to answer them in the plainest language you can.

@k I'm so sorry about your partner.

@lynn- I really like that answer- thanks!! My son is (understandably) worried about dying ('because I would miss you, mommy') and I have struggled to answer him in a way that seems honest and yet reasurring.

[Kimberly C]

I have a very large extended family, and my family has lived in this area for a LONG time, so we go to what seems like a ton of funerals for people that I knew, that watched me as a child and went to church with us, or are our friend's grandparents and whatnot. I think that it is either a thing with my family or maybe just southern, but you get to pay respects to someone you barely know, because you need to be there for someone that is closer to you and to them. My daughter is two and has been to several funerals. She has no idea what is going on in that situation, and nobody minds- she gets passed around, proud grandparents and uncles tell who she is and people talk and chat. We don't take her in the room with the casket unless it was somebody very close to us, but we always sign the book (I don't generally go in where the casket is either, I am not generally freaked out by it, but it does make me uncomfortable somehow.)

The first funeral that I went to as a child was when I was 10 and my great grandmother died. I put a dogwood blossom in her casket, and everyone told me I was very brave. I was freaked right out because that lady there? Looked nothing like my Grandma. But it did make an impression on me- Grandma W died and my Daddy cried and Woah, that is really weird. Daddy never cries. But it was good for me to see it, to understand that grief is a part of life and all.

Around here it seems that "closed casket" means that something was wrong with the body, so people don't like that much. Different cultures, I guess. And funerals happen fast too, like 3 days and done. The wake sometimes happens like a day later.

[Kristie]

Everyone is giving such great, thoughtful advice.

My brother in law died unexpectedly three years ago when my oldest son had just turned five, and we had a six week old new baby.

We took both kids to everything, family gatherings, viewing, funeral. Of course, the baby was too young to remember anything, but with my older son, we just made up our minds to answer all of his questions just like people suggested in the above comments- simple, honest answers, and never make it seem like he was somehow wrong to ask.

It was hard. I agree with Fiona that we are so sheltered now from death. Our first instinct was to not talk about it, but we made every effort to answer all his questions and not hide things from him.

I explained for both the viewing and the funeral that he would see people very sad and crying, because they loved BIL and were very sad that he died. And that it might be scary to see the grownups cry, but it was okay and normal for them to act like that, and that it was also perfectly normal for my son to cry or not, and when we got back to the house, I stressed that it was perfectly fine if he felt like laughing and playing with his cousins.

He handled it well, and didn't seem upset by the body. He respected what I said about however he felt was just fine, but that the funeral home and the actual funeral were not a place to play, but a place to be quiet and respectful.

Sorry this is so long! But I have a bit more to say..

Unfortunately, my mother in law and father in law died last year. My MIL on my son's 8th birthday in June ( poor guy ) and my FIL 4 months later, ostensibly of pneumonia caught during a round of chemo for lung cancer, but probably more from his broken heart after losing his wife of 54 years.

To touch on what Fiona was saying about how it was the norm in the past for people to die at home - my MIL had hospice care at home for pancreatic cancer and died in her bed, not surrounded by us, because we thought it was just another nap, but surrounded by a houseful of family having a Saturday gathering at grandma and papa's just like she loved.

We were able to sit with her body and cry and talk and say goodbye until the people from the mortuary came. The kids came in and out of the room, my eldest 8 and the baby now 3, and they were fine with it, holding her hand, being sad, laughing, comforting us. Honestly, it was the least creepy thing I have ever done; it felt so natural and peaceful and right to be there and say goodbye and provided such a sense of closure that I was very sad that my FIL died in the hospital and we weren't able to have the same experience. ( It goes without saying that I would have much preferred no one died at all)

Now, my three year old was much more rambunctious at the viewings than my older son was at that first one when he was five. It just depends on the family dynamics. I tried to keep my younger son from being too disruptive, and I worried about offending people until my husband told me that it "wouldn't be grandma and papa's house without some wild kids running around". So it ended up being fine. My parents and a cousin took care of the three year old at the funerals so my husband and I could focus and mourn.

[Jutta]

It always seems easiest to me to take the path of least resistance. To me that means to let the children partake in the rituals of life and family. That way, they learn to live with it, and it's not this HUGE thing looming over their heads when they get older.
I remember when I was barely 6 years old. A child of a neighbor died and I went along to the funeral. It all seemed so surreal, even back then. They were all dressed in black, crying and throwing dirt into this whole in the ground. Nobody bothered to explain to me what exactly was going on. I just remember looking up at the big folks and feeling this dark cloud.
Over the years, I have seen clients of mine handle death with their children in a variety of ways. But without fail, the attitudes of the adults always transfered to the children. If death is too much to handle for the parents, you can bet, it will be too much for the kids. Later on they won't know why, they'll just feel.So why not talk to them in a matter of fact way. Tell them why you're feeling hurt (age appropriate language), tell them why others are feeling as they are. Just be careful not to use language like: He/she has gone to sleep and won't come back. Etc. Kids are pretty literal and will be afraid.

[Monkey]

I took my then 3 yr old to an open casket funeral last year and he seemed to be okay with it. Honestly, I was freaked out more than he was cause I've got issues with open caskets. I can trace that back to when I was 10 and my grandmother died. The open casket at that funeral messed me up for a while. But then again, I don't remember my parents talking to me about it at all. I think that probably would have helped a lot.

[Tammy]

I was going to second or third the recommendation to find a vet who makes housecalls. Ours does, which was a great comfort when my almost-18-year-old cat was nearing the end of his life. He'd been terminally sick, took a sudden turn for the worse, and the vet was on her way over to euthanize him when he died on his own.

I'd had a feeling it was going to happen, and had my three-and-a-half year old, Sam, say an extra-special goodbye to Puck that morning before going to preschool. I kept the explanation simple: Puck was very, very old, and he was going to die soon. It was time for his life to be over, and we'd always love and miss him. Sam said he was sad that Puck was going to die, and I said that I was sad, too. We both cried, but it felt right.

I'd read that, with children this age, you should let them see the pet's body if they ask, but don't push it if they don't ask. Sam didn't ask, so we didn't bring it up. He seems to get that Puck is dead and that dead is forever (we've been working hard to avoid euphemisms like "gone" and the like, and it's surprisingly hard to do), though lord knows the myriad ways this idea could be ricocheting around inside his crazy preschooler brain.

[SMDNY]

This is repeating what some others have said, but in my family kids are usually included at funerals, which are usually open casket. Fortunately, the funeral home we tend to use has a kids play room in a separate area, so the kids have a place to run around and the adults take turns watching the kids - which also gives the adults a break from the wake/viewing. For the kids in my family, it's not so much the body, but more the long very boring time spent in a funeral home that bothers them.

I do agree with the point about kids doing OK when the grown ups are handling it well. The one exception we had was a suicide - no little ones at that funeral - the adults were too upset.

And yes, many vets do make housecalls - I've paid the extra money for home euthanization twice (once in NJ and once in NYC). Not only was it kinder to the (very ill) pet, but we were free to be total emotional wrecks without having to drive or try to get home afterward. In both cases, the vet took the remains and arranged for cremation. We had the choice of getting the ashes back. One of the vets also brought that clay you use to make handprints and made a pawprint before she took the cat away. Very kind of her.

[Kathy]

My son is a 3 and hald yrs old. We have never expose him to any death. But lately he keep asking: " Am I going to die or are we all going to die?" It really scared me why he ask such depressed question? And how did he know about all this?

[new era men hats]

After all, my my, I am after all one of your passing, you still do not love me, you and I is what is destined will happen, doomed, doomed doomed. No matter how I cross no matter how I think close to you, you still leave me. I miss you, wish, wish you good to see you miss .http://www.newerahatfactory.com/

[Kenan]

Do you know what I see as the biggest probelm with people changing their diet/lifestyle? Until their health goes to pot or something drastic happens they don't want to change.Why? Because they are lazy. I liked what the lady who had cancer said. Basically she said how do you expect a different result when you keep doing the same old thing. Our society is lazy they just want to take a pill and have everything get better. Just ask for the purple pill remember that commercial? I think it was for prilosec, what I do remember is that people were going to the doctor and asking for the purple pill even though they didn't know what it did. Haha people are sheep.People also think that modern medicine has all the answers. The reason for this is people don't know their history. They don't know how and where modern medicine gained the knowledge that it has. Well guess what? The knowledge came from nature. Where did antibiotics, painkillers, and the ideas for every drug on the market comd from, nature. And why really would that be a surprise? We live in a world created by nature. Modern medicine has just figured out how to manipulate nature to an extent.The real goal is to have your body in top condition so you don't need any help for the doctor. But that takes work, the gym and the kitchen and the garden. But people are to busy these days. Today we have computers, dishwashers, clotheswashers, microwaves, central air, gas furnaces, every convenience imaginable but nobody has any time. Whatever, we are each in control of our own destiny. We need to stop making excuses and also our society needs to quite accepting others excuses. If you are fat, not overweight or heavy then that means you eat to much and don't excersise. Simple.Our society is lost when it does not view gluttony with contempt.

[Beerhymes]

We all want to give our loved ones the best send-off we can. But when someone pesass on, we don't all have the cash required to give them a five-star luxury funeral. In fact, many of us find that funding a funeral is close to impossible, and worry that we won't be able to say goodbye to our loved ones in the style in which they were accustomed.

[Sharvan]

Talk with the funeral deicrtor, or possibly the manager. If you have some money to put down, then they should be able to help you. $5500 seems like a lot of money for a funeral. Could you also be adding in the cemetery costa as well? These are two separate bills. If you can work it out, the mortuary is usually able to work payment options out better than the cemetery. If your grandma belonged to a church, some times the pastor has a fund that can be used to help members of the church. This could either be an out right gift, or a loan. Either way when you are able you should repay the church, that way there is money available to help the next family. If things are really tight you may have to cut back on some of the expenses. Maybe a less expensive casket, shorter viewing period, a lower cost grave, maybe wait until later to purchase the marker. Funeral Directors and Cemetarians are willing to help families out, but you must be truthful with them, and have some type of payment plan in mind.

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