Q&A: Drunk Daddy

This is the post that's been stopping me from posting this week. I couldn't get past it, but still don't know exactly what to say.

Amy writes:

"I have been searching your site and could not find advice or feedback on how to deal with Alcoholism in the home. My spouse is an alcoholic. I, as a first time mom, am finding the stress of juggling the sucking vortex of sleep disturbances/teething while watching the clock from 4:30 till 5:00pm(is he coming home from work or is he stopping for a "quickie" at the usual watering hole?) with the vigilance of a death row inmate wating for a stay/phone call from the governor before the lethal injection to be altogether too much for me. I am attending a weekly Al-anon meeting, and thank God I can bring the baby along. I stay at home and have been unable to get a sitter, let alone pay for one. We are living on one income and it is just not making it.  Also, I have a weekly family therapy session, and I have been taking the baby there too. It's a blessing that our insurance for mental heath care does not require a co-pay! And I can go up to 52 sessions a year! Whoo-hoo, cause I need 'em, I really do. Not only is motherhood kicking my ass, but feeling something like a single parent was something I hadn't bargained for.

    I say SOMETHING LIKE, because I am not faced with leaving my baby with a childcare provider or family member while going to work/school. Ugh. Hats off to you ladies and gents who are doing this alone! My mom did it with five kids and when I ask her for advice, she simply states, "honey, I can't even remember the Vietnam War. How am I supposed to remember how I fed/dressed/diapered 5 kids on a police cadet's salary in the sixities?

    So what to do, what to do. I feel like I cannot leave the baby in his care and get out of the house alone for a spell, which I need to do DESPARATELY-even if it is running errands on the Mommy Clock. That's if he even makes it home at a reasonable hour. By reasonable, I mean 7:30pm, for the whole bedtime routine. If he does make it home, he usually is pretty buzzed or completely innebriated, so much so that I cringe when he picks up the baby and walks around the house with him. Not like he's ever dropped him, but it still makes me nervous. So husband might spend 1/2 hour with baby a day, sometimes, and then he generally passes out in front of the TV. Husbands says he fell asleep, but I know better. Anyway, he's gonna do what he's gonna do, while I am concentrating on everything else that needs to be done, with safety first on my mind.

    I sent a few questions your way this week regarding sleep and routine, etc., etc., and I feel my husband's behavior (not spending time with our child, walking funny, talking funny when he is home) is contributing to Grumpy's overall development, bar none the loosey-gooseyness of our ever deteriorating schedule.

I am trying to get husband involved, with bath time and feeding (we are in our first week of cereal 2x a day) but he can't be here at any given time after work hours.

Should I give up, or will pressing the importance of the routine issue become a routine in itself? He won't change diapers sober, but he dotes on the baby after a few beers, let me tell you. Help! I feel like I am searching for the tv remote in the bedcovers at night without waking the baby in bed with me, and all I have to search with is a single foot and a dim light at the end of the hall.

    How can a girl find a free sitter? What are sitters charging nowadays? Who can you trust? My son, 6 months old, is going through that clingy,teething,no-sleep stage; so in a way, I feel the idea of handing him over to someone else is an impossible dream, and therefore a moot point.What options do I have? My sanity is involved here. I am nursing him round the clock, and daddy won't give a the baby a bottle, unless he's been drinking, and even that takes timing. Shit. This truely sucks.  

    If you choose to consider posting this, please, you have my thanks. However, once I send this email, I will delete it from my sent messages. I just don't want any more confrontation from husband. It's hard enough getting to a weekly meeting; he's so defensive and in denial."

Oh, girl. I'm just so sorry. This email is sucking the fight out of me just reading it, so I can't imagine how it must be to be living it.

First, get a free web-based email address from gmail.com or yahoo.com or hotmail.com that's just yours. Don't let him know  you have it, and clear the browsing history of your browser before he comes home. Then email me back.

Now, here's what I want you to know, even if you can't do anything about it right now: This is not your fault, and you are built for something better than living in fear of someone in the throes of a disease he can't control and is denying. You are meant for something more, Something far better, and something that makes use of who you are and what you can be. And your son deserves far better than he's getting right now, too. You're going to have to leave. Even if you can't do it now, you know it. When you're ready to, you will. Thousands of women have done it and are doing it, so you can, too. And we'll be right here to help you.

And it's not safe for him to be in charge of your baby. When he's sober he might be a wonderful guy. But alcoholism changes people and makes them behave in ways that are not rational. Until he gets into recovery, you cannot trust him with your son. And there is nothing you can do to get him out of denial and into recovery. Your job is to protect your son and yourself. You are the family unit at this point, because your husband is allowing himself to be absent and dangerous. Asking for or trying to get help and responsibility from him is simply not an option, because he's deep into this illness and just can't be trusted.

It sounds like what you need right now is a friend with a child who can trade some babysitting with you. You can leave your child with her for a few hours and then she can leave her child with you for a few hours. (But please please don't take her child while your husband is home--his active alcoholism makes it an unsafe situation.)

I don't have personal experience with Al-Anon or AA, but from my outsider's perspective I wonder if you could approach anyone in your group to ask for some help. It sounds like the alcoholism is making *you* feel ashamed and is limiting your social contacts, and that's tragic. You need all the support you can get right now. Can someone who's been (or is in) either Al-Anon or AA comment about whether she could approach other people in the group, or if that's not something that's done? It just seems to me like those are people with whom Amy wouldn't have to pretend that everything is OK.

This post is dedicated to the memory of D.E., who died yesterday at the age of 37 from complications of alcoholism.

Does anyone have any words of support or advice for Amy? Any women who've gotten out of alcoholic situations? Any people who grew up in alcoholic homes? Any women who are crying reading this like I'm crying typing it?

Comments

[vanessa]

I dont have any advice, but I do have this:
My dad was/is an alchoholic (I guess he still is, but I dont like to admit that, and he doesnt drink much anymore..plus I mostly ignore it).
growing up, both my sister and I were terrified of him. We have good memories, too, and on balance now as a 23 year old with years and years of therapy and analysis I have a more balanced picture of him. But. For a child, living with an alcoholic is utterly terrifying. And later, both my sister and I were furious with our mom for failing to protect us.
What I have learned is that you can do NOTHING to fix your husband. I have literally stood in front of my father and told him I would cut myself every time he drank. I have moved away from home as a threat (as a young teen). Nothing works.
It is also not your fault. Everyone in my family has blamed themselves at some point for my dads drinking, but it wasnt on any of us.
I would not trust your husband with the baby. Alcoholics change. They become utterly different people after even one drink. They are never reliable.
I guess my only tangible advice would be to try and get some money of your own, and also build a support system of friends and people who love you, so that if you ever have to leave--even if it is just for a night, or a week--you can.
And maybe try to find other models for your baby, too. I dont mean to sound judgmental, and I certainly dont think you are a bad person or mother in any way, but I do think that in the long run one of the things that is most harmful for kids is not having models of healthy relationships to use later in life. That's a much more abstract thing, and something that will be a bigger issue as he gets older, but I guess since I feel like as the child of an alcoholic (which, true, wasnt my parents only issue butwas a huge one) that is one of the single biggest problems.
Please let Moxie know how you are doing so we can know too. I am so sorry.

[Redhead]

I wonder what city Amy lives in? It could be that she is right around the corner (literally!) from another Ask Moxie reader who could provide the kind of babysitting help and support she needs right now. I was just sitting here wondering if she was nearby so that I could help her. Amy, I live in Greenville, SC and if you live anywhere near me, e-mail me at redhead081 at aol dot com and I'll help you. Others might be willing to do the same if they know where you are (but I know you don't want to post all your contact info. on Ask Moxie, which I understand). Maybe you would be willing to give a general location and people could e-mail you if nearby? Just a thought.

[Another anon]

Oh, gee whiz. @Amy, I can't add a lot to what's already been suggested, but here's to you for what you're doing. What a strong woman you must be. One question -- if your husband is working and you are home with your son, why does your hubby (always) need to know where you are? You write, "It's hard enough getting to a weekly meeting;" but can you get to (more) without telling him? I realize if you and he share transportation that might make this impossible, but I certainly don't tell my husband where I am every minute of every day, and can be vague without dissembling ("Out with friends," "Running some errands," "At a playgroup") if it suits my purposes.

You do mention being in counseling; could your counselor help you identify community resources?

I grew up with an alcoholic mom, and she was my good parent (no, really -- obviously this reflects badly on my father; also, she got sober when I was a teenager), so I know these things can be complicated and I'm not going to say you should leave him, though it sounds to me like it would be worth thinking about. But you may need to get some more "space" (private adult time) in your day before you can even think about, much less plan for, that, even if it is the right choice).

I'd second, or third, the suggestion about faith communities. Indeed, going to church might be a good way to get some private time and maybe find another support network (I'm a Quaker, and heaven knows if there's one thing we're always looking for it's folks who need a helping hand, so if there's a Quaker meeting in your community you could always start there...worship in an unprogrammed, or silent, meeting is, I'm told, not unlike Al-Anon, and, hey, it's an hour of mostly quiet reflection. There's worse stuff out there. Of course if you're from a different faith background that suggestion may be woefully inappropriate; you need to figure out what's right for you -- and it may be nothing. But there are resources available within religious organizations that might be of use.).

Good luck to you.

@Moxie, I've realized that a main reason I love this site is you're willing to post questions about the hard stuff. Thank you.

[hedra]

yay, more Quakers. :)

UU's are also open to even the a-religious and non-religious folks. If you just need a community who want to talk, support, and take action to help others, they're good as well. You don't have to believe in anything other than community to be welcome. (More discussion groups than most Quaker Meetings, but not that far off otherwise!)

[hedra]

@wow, the strategy you're talking about was what I was thinking.

[summer]

Oh, this just hurt my heart so much to read. I feel for you and am very sorry that you have all of this to deal with.

I don't think that I have any suggestions or advice to add on top of what others have mentioned. It did strike me when I was reading your post that you didn't mention leaving your marriage, just dealing with the current situation, but as others have said it might all be just one step at a time? It's all so complicated emotionally to be involved in.

My dad is an alcoholic, a very abusive one, and my mom left him when I was just under a year old. She took my older brother and I and stayed at a shelter until she could get housing assistance. Her family was no help and she had no money. She worked after we left, and we were definitely a welfare family for a while, but she attended counseling and worked on getting us up and out of the situation that we were in. Much of that work was on herself (she also had to get counseling for my brother and later, me). Once she removed herself from the situation there was a lot to be done to keep her going. I have so much respect for my mother I can't even begin to describe how proud of her I am for taking care of herself and her little family. I have many, many issues related to my relationship with my father but overall I am so glad that I didn't have to be raised in his home and could deal with him from a distance when I needed to. My very first memory takes place in my crib, in the tiny apartment that we had after she left him. Not only did my mom save me and my brother from living with the unpredictability of a raging alcoholic, but she taught me by example how to be a strong person.

I wish you the best in keeping yourself and your family safe and happy.

[ramy]

I have nothing to add but major hugs {{{{{amy}}}}. I'm the child of drug users who were themselves the children of alcoholics. There is a lot of gray area.

Just adding my support, especially to the suggestion that you try to increase your independence. Its so hard when living away from your family--I really sympathize.

[Cloud]

Coming back in with an idea of a way to find the resources in your community: go to the United Way website. Anytime I donate to them at work, they have a long list of local charities and what each charity does. There are always a few that help "families in crisis". I'm sure they would help a mother trying to avert a crisis, too. The people at these organizations know what resources are out there in your community. Also, if you decide that you want to go back to work, most states have free employment assistance services- it is in their interest to get you working and paying taxes, right?

I agree with all the PPs- you sound like a strong woman who is in a difficult place. I remember the newborn fog, which was only sort of lifting at 6 months. Kudos to you for holding it together so well, and for reaching out for help. If you happen to live anywhere near San Diego, send me an email at wandsci at gmail dot com. Drop me a comment on my blog saying that I have an email waiting, though- I am not always on top of that email account!

[Lisa F.]

@Amy, many, many hugs. You are doing a great job. and you've got some great suggestions here. My DH grew up in an alcoholic home. Al Anon can be very helpful. Listen to the sharing and choose someone to talk to. Focus on what you CAN control, your actions, your choices, keeping your son & you safe. To leave or not to leave, you'll get to a point where you'll know what to do, even if you don't know exactly how to do it. I met people in Al Anon who never left, and while I never understood their decision, I never walked in their shoes.

There is help, you are not alone. All the best, and if you can, let Moxie know how it's going.

[Carrie]

I'm crying as I read this post. It is such a horrible place to be and one that I have never personally experienced. My mother, however? She was right there in the thick of it. She thought she couldn't leave because it would be bad for the kids, but as one of those kids I am telling you LEAVE! Don't stay for the sake of the kids. It is a miserable upbringing (and that's without violence. I have no idea what it would be like to live with an abusive alcoholic). You deserve a lot more than this.

As for affordable child care--try looking into the gyms in your area. It is not ideal since your alone time will have to be spent in the gym, but it will give you an hour or two every single day when someone else will take care of the baby. The gym was my only source of sanity the first couple of years of motherhood.

[xiw]

My dad is an alcoholic. My earliest--and they are very, very early--memories of him are of going to beer joints and hanging out in the afternoons, and of opening cans of beer for him while riding around in his truck (sans seatbelts and all, since this was the seventies).

I could say a lot more, but short version is that growing up with a drunk dad fucking sucks, and I didn't even have the variety of drunk dad that was violent--just highly unreliable, moody, and maudlin. Drunk daddying is a dealbreaker for me as a result. I love my dad, but I don't want my own kid to go through what I went through.

Amy, see if you can find a babysitting co-op in your area (check Yahoo groups, there are a lot of local parenting groups in that system). Moxie is right - you have to do the babysitting trade when you're by yourself, and if you don't think you can handle two kids at once, it might not be a good option. You could ask around at Al-Anon and see if someone could help, but I wouldn't ask at AA unless you have gotten to know the folks and their histories. Al-Anon is probably a little bit of a safer resource from which you could try to draw.

I think that it might be best for you to treat your husband, at least in regards to your son, as a visiting relative. YOU establish the routine, YOU make the rules - if he gets home too late or too drunk to see his kid, well, it's on him. It's the drink or his kid. He'll probably choose the drink if things are as bad as they sound, and then you will ultimately have to decide if it's worth it to live like you're living.

If you have a car of your own, keep a getaway bag with copies of important documents in it along with a few days' worth of any medicine you or your son might need, a phone list and/or spare mobile phone charger, changes of clothes, and some snacks for both of you that will keep indefinitely. Stash some cash there, too, even if you just add $3-4 a week for a few weeks so that the money isn't noticed as missing. If you have a mobile phone, add the number to the closest women's shelter to your phone - make it an alternate number to someone that you call often if you need to be sneaky. If you don't have a phone, memorize it or put it in your address book (again, you can hide it as someone's work number if you need to).

If you don't have a car of your own, hide this bag somewhere close to the front or back door, somewhere it won't likely be found but that you can get to it in a hurry. Even if you can hide it in your son's room and then push it out of a window to be collected once you're outside, if that seems like the safest place to hide such a thing.

This might sound extreme, but right now your husband and his addiction are holding a lot of the power in your relationship. If you know that you could leave him at a moment's notice if things got too bad, it might help you stay a little more sane.

Good luck. Please keep in touch with Moxie so that she can update us on the situation. And Moxie, if Amy is in my area, feel free to give her my contact info for some strings-free respite babysitting.

[Ashley]

OK, three things jumped out at me that I can speak to, even though I have no experience with alcoholism.

Wondering When He'll Be Home -- This is my husband, who has a crazy-unpredictable work schedule with a lot of evening hours (even though he has a "normal" corporate-type job.) Yes, it's tough not knowing. After a time of unemployment I always focus on the fact that he has a good job, even if I don't love the hours. I cope by still taking the time to fix something nice to eat for myself, planning fun little things to look forward to for those lonely evenings -- a favorite TV show, a good magazine, a visit to that cool thrift store, a craft project, a run with the jogging stroller, etc. Flexibility is key. I like your attitude about going it alone -- think of the women with husbands who are in Iraq!

Free babysitting -- I also have a six month old. I regularly (as in 1-2X nearly every week) trade childcare with our SAHD neighbor, a part-time WOHM or any of several SAHMs I met at church or through a playgroup. People want to do this. They want to help you and they want a break themselves. You need to network. Can you reach back to a childbirth class roster, old co-workers, the church down the street to find some other SAH parents? Even try throwing an ad out on Craig's List and see what you get back. Don't be a afraid to seek out sources for single moms.

Finally, frugality -- there are a TON of websites out there that can teach you about freebies, couponing, gaming CVS and Walgreens, picking up some extra income... MoneySavingMom is a good start --- follow her links. This is all stuff you can do without your husband's involvement and gives you the opportunity to work some treats for yourself into your coupouning/thrifting routine. (Hello, free chocolate samples....)

[Sarah]

Just want to be another voice saying we support you. You're in one of the toughest situations! I also agree with the main thrust of the previous comments, some respite care, then financial independence are the first steps. You're in my thoughts and prayers!

[M]

My husband is not an alcoholic, but he does go for a monthly 'gathering' with the guys, and often has too many.

The first time he came home, took our baby girl from my arms to snuggle her, and then stumbled and staggered into a wall (he merely ran into it with his elbow, she never touched the wall, but still...NO.), I put my foot down. He now knows and respects that if he's been drinking, he is not prepared to care for our baby. It's helped me, actually, since he adores her and therefore is less likely nowadays to come home smashed.

My point is simply to be SO careful about letting him be near the baby if he's been drinking. I know it seems he dotes and is uber caring, but he's also impaired, and your son is going to be a wigglepants very soon if he's not already. It's not a good mix. If at all possible, as stressed and in need of a break as you are, I'd take back that 1/2 hour he spends with baby before passing out. It's just too dangerous. :(

I'm so sorry, and I feel for you tremendously. I wish I had advice to offer to help solve your issue.

[N]

Oh ugh, Amy, you poor thing... Here's my input, for whatever it's worth:

The two most pressing issues for you are 1. how to finagle some alone time for yourself so you can figure out what the hell to do and 2. how to keep your kid safe. I'm not going to berate you about how your kid is going to be emotionally traumatized for life, because I have a feeling that will just make you feel like shit, and because I don't necessarily believe it's true; obviously this isn't a great situation, but kids survive all kinds of awful stuff (just read Mary Karr's The Liar's Club or Jeanette Walls's The Glass Castle if you ever want to feel better about your own parenting situation), and in any case, worrying about it isn't going to solve anything. Like I said, focus on your immediate needs: alone time and safety. You can figure out the long-term stuff once you've got those taken care of.

Other posters have given great suggestions for babycare options, so I don't have much to add. I am a single mother myself, and I've done it with virtually no money, no help from the rest of my family (my mother's deceased, and the rest refuse to help) and basically no friends in the area. And it's been really, really hard. You do have to force yourself to ask for help (and be prepared to have some people refuse or flake out). One thing I want to add: you're taking your son to therapy now, but there will come a time when you won't be comfortable talking about this stuff in front of him, so please do try to get something sorted out (for the record, I haven't sorted this out for myself, and thus haven't been in therapy for over 2 years).

As for your son's safety, you gotta do what you gotta do. Regardless of any emotional component, safety has to be priority numero uno, and if dad might drop him, well, dad can't hold him.

I have no idea if you should leave him or not, but I will say this, just as food for thought: single motherhood can really, really suck, but sometimes it's better than the alternative. Huge hugs to you, and you're in my thoughts...

[Simone]

Amy,
I am so sorry. I can't even imagine...

Since you're a SAHM, have you checked out your local MOMS Club? (momsclub.org) I am a member of my local chapter, and I can tell you, of the 30 or so women in my club, most ANY one of them would bend over backward to help me if I were in your situation. For one thing, we trade babysitting. But also it's a great way to share experiences and provide resources.

Are you in MN? If you are, e-mail me--I'd be happy to do what I can to help out. (simon0554 "at" msn.com)

[aquaflore]

I don't have time to read through all the comments, but have you tried to apply for a job at a daycare? the place my son goes offer free childcare for their teachers. I am sure they don't pay whole a lot, (minimal wage for inexperienced, maybe?) and you have 2 hours lunch break for yourself.
your story broke my heart ...
and Best of luck to you.

[Michelle]

Wow! OK- one commenter suggested secretly calling the police to tip off a DUI? I think that is absolutely horrible advice. Call the police if you think he is going to hurt someone (driving, drunken rage, etc.)...but the police are not going to solve your problem. And if you think they will just let him sleep it off in the "drunk tank" and then give him a ride home in the morning, you are mistaken.

You did the right thing by emailing Moxie because you are honoring your own feelings. You are scared. You have reason to be scared for your son, yourself and even your husband. So, it is time to be brave and even if it can't happen today or tomorrow...you need to think hard about what behavior you can or can't tolerate and plan an exit strategy. Just thinking about it may be hard. But accept that it is not your decision if he is going to continue drinking!

[sobermom]

ouch. I'm so sorry. I think your husband is possibly even more scared than you at this point. It is absolutely true that you cannot force an alcoholic to stop drinking just because you want them to. He has to want it. But sometimes a kick in the ass from those closest to you really does work. I got sober before I became a mother but I did have a husband who said "get help or get out." so. you need to have a plan in place in case his decision is to get out. I would suggest gathering names of local clinics that offer outpatient treatment. this is the route I took and they had a fantastic family program . AA is not for everyone, though you can of course suggest and encourage it, but come up with some options for him. I think that finding some space for yourself right now is really important - do you have a close friend or two who can take the baby for an hour or two? any babysitting co-ops in your vicinity where you trade off with other parents? I think you need a two part plan at the moment - the immediate getting some time out for yourself and the long term - either helping your husband navigate sobriety or learning to manage on your own. no matter how much your husband loves your baby, you are inarguably better off alone than raising a child in an alcoholic household. the best case scenario is your husband accepting that he needs to get sober. the rewards are endless but so hard to see when you are in the throes of addiction. I feel for all of you and I wish you a happy resoultion. it's not going to be easy finding it but it is possible. I will tell you the thought of living without drinking scared the shit out of me. but the alternative scared me even more. you clearly love your husband and he's lucky to have you. I really hope it all works out.

[Pippi]

Your son is so lucky that he has mom that's reaching out and looking for help. That is an amazing lesson he will learn from you. I can't give any advice, I haven't been there, but I want you to know that there's one more person out there cheering you on. I think the advice from others to get some financial independence is great. It's hard, so hard, to leave your baby and go to work. But you're obviously strong and a good daycare is fun for kids. I used to want to stay later and keep playing. So if that's a worry for you, try to let it go.

[Tzipporah]

As an adult child of an alcoholic, I'll confirm that your child will be impacted by his dad's alcoholism.

Your husband's alcoholism has skewed his thinking to maintain the denial. He doesn't SEE a problem, because he defines "problem" drinking as necessarily different from what he's doing. If you stay, you buy into this thinking, and reinforce it.

Leaving won't make him change. But it will influence the definition of "problem" that he's working with - and gives him a chance to change his life, as well as yours.

Even if your husband gets sober, he'll need to do a LOT of personal growth work not to pass on his diseased worldview to your child. (I say this as someone fighting that worldview myself.)

You are already doing HEROIC things taking care of yourself and your child in this situation. You clearly have the smarts, the persistence, and the willpower to do anything you decide you need to do. I'm rooting for you, your child, and your husband.

[boofyq]

Grew up in an alcoholic home, married an alcoholic. Sought therapy thinking I could somehow do something to make it tolerable. Rejected the advice I was given when I went to Al-Anon before I ever got married.

I spent eight years of my life trying to make the best of a bad situation, and then, finally, I was fed up enough and strong enough to get out. I moved out, took a new job 400 miles away, got a divorce and restarted my life. Granted, it was only after all that that I met and married the RIGHT guy and then had my babies. I can't imagine having to deal with that horror of a life with a baby (or babies).

I haven't read all the replies here, and I know that Moxie readers will offer thoughtful and helpful advice. Mine is to leave though, and go home. Go to your mom's or an aunt's or whoever will take you and baby in. You cannot have a healthy life with an alcoholic who doesn't acknowledge a problem and seek help. Your baby deserves better than this, and you do too. Good luck!

[Jennifer]

I skimmed the comments but I can provide real life experience on this. My husband is an alcoholic and has relapsed several times in the past several years and we have a three year old, the second time he relapsed I was pregnant, he went to a halfway house and got help and moved back in just as the baby was born. He relapsed about 6 months ago and I did not feel it was safe to have him around so I asked him to leave (I'm fortunate he did and didn't have to move out myself.) He's sober now a few months but we are still separated. I can't say if we'll get divorced or not. I was already working full time and our child was already in full time daycare but I didn't bargain on being a single mom either.

I'm just sharing my story so you know I know what you are going through. It's great you're going to Alanon but please go to more than one meeting a week. Do you just go to the meeting or do you work the program - do you have a sponsor you talk to everyday, are you reading the Alanon literature daily, are you working the 12 steps? A sponsor can help you walk through this. It's such a big step to even go to Alanon and you are doing great with that, but I would encourage you to take the next step and commit yourself to Alanon by going at least two or three times a week and getting a sponsor. I know that sounds overwhelming but by doing all those things you will find help.

I remember nursing my baby during Alanon meetings! I think the people in the meeting should understand that, so for now just bring him along. Now I go to 2 meetings a week, one has child care and for the other my best friend watches my child.

I will pass along what's been told to me - do not make ultimatums unless you are definitely going to carry them out, otherwise the alcoholic just learns that he can walk all over you. If you still need time to decide to leave or not, then take that time to think about it and formulate a plan. Before I told my husband to leave, I told him he was not to drive our daughter anywhere or be alone with her. That made my life very difficult, but I put her safety first. Then I came to the realization that he needed to leave. You will know what the right thing to do is. And again I'll just emphasize that I couldn't have survived this without the support of my sponsor and other friends in Alanon. I have a friend that I met through Alanon who also has a 3 year and is separated from her husband so we can babysit for each other. You will make friends in the same situation as well!

Sorry this is so long. I will be praying for you. Please update us on what's going on!!

[mog]

Amy,
What is it that you want? I hear that you want a safe home for you son to develop in and a reasonable amount of alone- or leisure-time for yourself. Am I right?

If so, how are you going to do that? Do you need someone to help you brainstorm ideas? If so, ask your family therapist to help you with ideas, resources, etc.

The only part of your story I feel uncomfortable with is the fact that you let dad be in the house while under the influence... I feel like you ought to be able to issue an ultimatum there. That's my gut reaction, anyhow.

I am curious as to what social supports you have: parents, siblings, other relatives, or friends?

I hope you find AskMoxie a supportive place to think through your needs/wants and brainstorm your solutions.

[liz]

What made me saddest reading this is that you don't even have the help of your husband when he's sober. He won't change diapers or give a bottle? So you have no help at all drunk or sober.

I echo everyone's suggestions to find a support system w.in alanon and to forge your way toward independence. What is there to lose at this point?

[Jutta]

Yes Moxie, yes! I had tears well up right from the start of the e-mail sent. And Amy, I agree with just about everything that Moxie had to say to you. Good and sage advice.

I am now 14 years out of a relationship with a drug addict/alcoholic. I am also the child of an alcoholic. Neither of those two circumstances lead to a healthy emotional life. One thing I feel a lot in my life is that I am not good enough for who or whatever. Not surprising, when alcohol was always my rival.

Your son needs a good environment where he can feel safe. And at 6 months, he probably already is getting a feeling for the situation. Kids are the smartest ever. You and your son deserve so much better.

I am glad you are going to Al-Anon. It's a wonderful support system, isn't it. When I started there, I wanted to say: "Who has been following me around and who has been writing my book?" I felt so much more normal when I got to connect with folks there.

My fella was very loving, kind and thought I was the best woman ever.The problem was that he had a mistress called drugs and alcohol. And she always was more important than I was. After a while I was getting tired of feeling like nothing I ever did would make him want to stay at home with me, not with his user buddies. When he finally got arrested, I refused to bail him out. That was my bottom. I didn't ever think I was going to be with someone, who is in jail. This I couldn't take.

You will find your own bottom. I hope, for your sake and for your son's that it is soon, with a lot of your suffering minimized.

Keep us updated!

[Cher]

Oh, damn. I'm so sorry this is happening to your family. Make a plan for getting out. Your safety -- and baby's -- are too important to depend on your husband. Even if he sobers up and you never have to use the plan, you'll be glad to have it. Make sure you have some power.

Here in Portland OR we have a relief nursery that helps families who have all sorts of trouble, including just being overwhelmed. Having a baby isn't always what you thought it would be, and they help people adjust to their new reality. Perhaps there is something similar where you live?-

[Jan]

I see two categories of issues here: surviving motherhood with no help and a marriage in crisis.

For the first, you've gotten a few good ideas. I'd add maybe a mother's helper -- an 11 or 12 year old who would take a few bucks an hour to play with/feed/change the baby while you take a shower or a nap. Also, I'm with whoever said a Moxite might be available to help -- I'm in the Seattle area. Moxie's got my email, and my permission to pass it on if you're local to me.

The marriage issue is (in my opinion) trickier. You don't say whether you're ready to be out of the relationship or not. If you're still wanting to get it to a healthy place, I can recommend James Dobson's book Love Must Be Tough: New Hope For Marriages in Crisis. I'm not, in general, any particular fan of Dobson's, but this book is (again, in my opinion) spot on. He talks very specifically about the idea that being completely committed to a marriage (his bias being "as God says we are to be") is NOT the same as accepting any and all behavior. His was the first book I really connected with about setting and enforcing boundaries as different from simply issuing ultimatums. And I agree that leaving the home doesn't necessarily mean ending the relationship forever.

You know, of course, that you can't control or change your husband -- he has to do that if it's going to happen. You can choose to stay, but it is your job as his mother to do that in a safe way. That means, tempting as it may be, you set and enforce boundaries with respect to drinking + baby time. And it probably means you have to single-mom it for all but the finances.

Without knowing you, I don't know what motivates you, but know that you deserve better and so does your baby. That may feel like a burden or a gift, but it's true either way.

Even if you think it'll never come to that, I encourage you to have an exit strategy. You never know if you might need it, and just having it will empower you. DSHS may be able to help you with that.

Please take care of yourself. Now would be a good time to be brave and ask for help (here, at Al-Anon, in the neighborhood, from family) where you need it.

[Maura]

My father was an alcoholic. I loved him desperately as a child and even more desperately as an adult. It was only in the final year of his life, a year during which he did not drink (he was 82 and essentially too sick to drink) that I came to some peace in my relationship with him. I'm 37 now and being the child of an alcoholic still effects my life in profound and damaging ways.

Yet.

I don't think my life as a child would have been better if my mom had left my dad - not during the years I can remember anyway. My mom, though she was not an active drinker, was much more sick than my dad during my childhood. When she wasn't paralyzed with depression, self-loathing, and self-doubt, she hurt us with bouts of violent rage.

Life in our house was indescribably frightening. My brothers and I never knew if my dad would be falling down drunk or whether mom would throw a frying pan at the wall. Or whether she'd get out of bed at all for weeks. My dad was drunk nearly every night, but functional every day, so he always went to work, did the shopping, cooked our dinners. We at least had some consistency with knowing he'd be working.

I wonder, though, what may have happened if my mom had left my dad when my oldest brother was your son's age, four years before I was born. If she had gotten help then, maybe she wouldn't have been so far gone by the time I was around. If she had left then, maybe it would have been the "bottom" that would have motivated my dad to get help.

I so relate to the daughter above who threatened to cut herself to her dad to try to motivate him to stop drinking. I tried SO much to fix my parents -- my whole childhood was an exercise in trying to be the person that would make my mom get out of bed (or not be mad at us) or make my dad stop drinking. If I only got straight A's, if I only was thinner, if I only kept the house more clean, if I only was prettier or smarter or funnier or more useful to them...if only I could be a better communicator and help them understand how much I needed them to stop.

And nothing, NOTHING was ever good enough. I can't tell you how much that still fucks me up, decades later.

So my plea to you, I guess, would be to get help for yourself now before even more damage is done -- not just to your son, but primarily to the strong and wonderful woman YOU ARE. I thank you, as a proxy for your son, that you are asking for help here. You are a wonderful mother and I'm sure that your husband has very good qualities or you would never have married him. The hardest part about loving an alcoholic is that so many of them are so worthy of our love ---- but trying to negotiate our lives to make them stop drinking makes us as ill as they are.

Your son, and potentially your future children, need you to get help now. And take heart in what a poster above said: leaving your marriage does not have to be the same as ending it. You have lots of options, even the option to do nothing. But with each passing day you try to accommodate him, your husband's illness is making you ill, too. And your son needs a healthy mom -- and you deserve to be healthy.

Some practical thoughts:
1) If you live in a large enough town, there are usually Al-Anon women-only groups, too. If you share your story, I bet there will be women who will offer to help share childcare duties or help you with respite care for your son. You need time for you. Service to others is a part of recovery, and many of your fellow Al Anon friends will be happy to serve you.

2) My local YMCA offers babysitting for $5/hr if you're using the facilities in the building. You can't leave to run errands or anything, but you could spend an hour swimming laps or even just reading a book. Try your local Y to see if they have options.

3) Try online Al Anon groups to supplement the recovery work you do in person.

4) Get a sponsor STAT if you don't already have one.

5) To the extent that it is possible for you, please try to create a routine that isn't dependent on whether your husband drinks. Let bedtime be the same time every night regardless of when he comes home. Your husband will inject enough chaos into your lives - if you can keep some things consistent, it will help both of you.

It is okay to love your husband -- no alcoholic is ALL bad, and I'm sure you have good reasons for staying with him. But you must love yourself more.

Please know that many of us are rooting for you and want to help. And the more you ask for help, the more you will get it. Please keep asking.

Sending love, strength, and hope your way.

[SarahD]

Back in the day, my aunt left my alcoholic uncle and took her three small children to her mother's house. She didn't divorce him, she just left. My uncle finally realized what he stood to lose, went to Al-Anon, quit drinking, got his life back in order, and pretty much became the poster child of AA. My aunt came back to him and 20-odd years later they're still happily married.

Obviously, that's pretty much the best possible outcome that could be dreamed of in that sort of situation, but I just wanted to throw it out there as a note of hope.

[stacy]

Oh, Amy. My mother is an alcoholic, and not being able to trust her with my child is heartbreaking. I can't even imagine if the problem was my husband instead.

The first year is SO tough even under the best of circumstances, and you're fighting the alcohol battle on top of it. You're one strong, strong woman.

I've found some good mommy groups, including babysitting co-ops, through meetup.com.

If by any chance you live in Northern Virginia, email me anytime: miscellany78 at yahoo dot com.

[Rayne of Terror]

Definitely try a Le Leche meeting. I have never met a better group of women. Be honest, ask for help, and I would bet you could get babysitting help or meals without reciprocating until you are in a better place.

My dad is an alcoholic and he started in recovery before I was 5. He was a great dad, he is a great dad. He is an awesome grandfather. He is a mentor to hundreds of alcoholics. I am very proud of him. One thing I understand though, is that a person must find their own way into recovery.

[Reese]

Nothing but sympathy and whatever support I can give. If, on the off chance you're in Orlando/Windermere, Florida, I'd be happy to watch the baby while you get some time for yourself. I know it's a long shot, but I remember just how hard those days were for us. dani_be_good(at)yahoo.com

You can check craigslist for babysitters, some of whom are Mom's looking to trade services/sitting with other Moms. Also check out your church (if you have one).

Al-anon is a great group - I have wonderful memories of the children's program. My mother attended as an adult child of an alcoholic and my sister and I had a great time playing with the other kids there.

[michaela]

I have been wrestling with how to write this comment since yesterday... I'm the daughter of a wonderful man who struggled with drug and alcohol problems for much of my life. I was lucky to *not* have a particularly traumatic childhood, in terms of witnessing violence. But the pattern that was set up then, and that continues to this (much healthier) day is that my family of origin completely revolves around my dad - how is he feeling today? Is he getting enough exercise? Is he in a bad mood? etc. All of which is to say, yes, my father's addictions have shaped me & my family, but I don't feel horribly scarred by them. (Of course, I say this after years of therapy...)

My mom was - and is - a very firm believer in the sanctity of marriage. But she did leave - with two small children - twice. Once we moved in with nearby friends for a few weeks, and another time we moved 1,000 miles away to be with her parents for what turned out to be a year. It was always very clear that we loved Daddy, and she loved Daddy, but that his behavior was at times unacceptable. Her approach - of calm, steadfast action when needed - always made me feel very safe.

This is all a lengthy way of reiterating what others have said about the difference between leaving and getting a divorce. Only you - and perhaps a wise friend or two - can determine whether you and your son are physically and emotionally safe in the home with your husband.

Best of luck, Amy. And please do go ahead and contact some of the resources PPs have mentioned... they're out there for a reason.

[vanessa]

Adding: if by any chance you are in the DC metro area, I will watch your baby sometimes free...I am an excellent babysitter:)
Good luck.

[kelly]

Crying here.

Amy, you are an awesome Mom. You're dealing with a whole big messy mess, but you're dealing. Your little boy is lucky to have you, because you are doing an amazing job.

My ex is an alcoholic. I have a six month old baby. Your situation could so easily have been mine, and because of that my heart is breaking as it goes out to you. I don't presume to know what's best for you, but I will say that I am deeply deeply thankful that I left my ex. I deserved far better, and so do you.

As others have said, I do think need to work on getting independent, on having a exit strategy. Economic security, support from family and friends, legal information.

In the short-term, you need some childcare. Ideas on that:
Would family and friends be able to care for your son for an hour or two? I find that even two hours' break from my child makes a huge difference for me.
Can you ask your doctor and/or counsellor about community resources? Indoor playground, family support networks?
Ask at Al-Anon if anyone is willing to help. Even if someone came to your house and played with the baby while you sat in another room and had a cup of coffee, that might feel good, you know?
Get your own email address and google "moms' groups" in your area. Then erase your browser histories.
My point is, find that village wherever you can.

I'll be thinking of you, Amy. Please take good care.

[fahmi]

I am not going to suggest leave or not leave - only you can make that decision, and you will be able to make that decision once you are less stressed, alone, and frantic.

So let's get there first.
You need some help. The best thing I ever did after my son was born was to contact the local high school and a magnet school near by, and spoke with the "career" office and guidance counselors. They put up a little notice on the board asking for a student who would be willing to stop by every day after school to see if there was anything I needed done. Did I need someone to run out and get me milk? The kid would come by, take my list, and go. Did I need someone to just sit in the house while the baby napped (for 30 minutes) while I went outside and sat on a bench in the park? The kid did it. At most, I took up an hour of that kid's day, and I paid her a flat rate a week. Minimum wage. Since there were days I didn't need anything, it worked out a little higher than minimum wage if you looked at the actual hours. But it saved my sanity.

It doesn't sound like you want to or can leave the baby alone with the father, so don't. Take advantage of this high school student to get the time alone you need.

My undergraduate college in NY also trained students as part of the Baby Sitting Service. Parents would call in, put up requests, and the students would pick up jobs based on their availability. super-reliable. If you are in NYC, email me, and I will get you in touch with them. Or look around and see if there's something like that in your area.

The library is a good idea. I look at the community flyers the library has to find people that can help. Have you looked on Craigs List? I've seen postings for mother's helpers there before.

[Anonforthis]

Also grew up with an alcoholic father and wanted to ditto all the posts about how terrifying that was. This is probably not what you wanted to hear and not why you emailed Moxie in the first place and I'm really sorry I am not offering a supportive comment, but please know there is a pretty good chance your son will never forgive you for staying.

[Florabora]

It sounds like you're doing all that you can - but there are other people and agencies out there that could probably also help you.

Check your phone book - is there a local United Way office? They can often help you out by pointing you to the right direction - for all of the issues you mention. Many communities have the 211 line available (similar to 911) - call, and they will let you know who to talk to.

Your local public library can probably provide you with help, too.

good luck. We're all thinking strong, positive thoughts for you.

[aprildelfuego]

If I were the poster, I probably would've stopped reading by now, but just in case you haven't--hear are my 2 cents!

First off, I'm really sorry that things are so, so hard right now. Secondly, wow! what a survivor you are to be doing as well as you are! Third, I have total faith that things are going to change as a result of you reaching out.

As someone who has been to several different recovery programs over the years, including Codependents Anonymous (which kind of overlaps with Al-Anon), Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcotics Anonymous, I wanted to offer a couple of ideas about getting the most out of recovery meetings.

**In meetings, they say "recovery meetings aren't an employment agency, a dating service, etc" but the truth is I met my husband in recovery and my husband got one of his recovery friends his old job when he got promoted, so meetings can actually be a good place to connect with resources. It might not be kosher to say in a meeting that you need someone from there to babysit for you, but if you talk about the needs you have, and say that you're looking for resources that's acceptable.
**Whether you find a babysitter or not, you might be able to find some friends in meetings...people who can understand what you're going through, who you can call when you're freaking out (really, DO get phone numbers!), who can go for walks or out for tea with you, so you don't end up feeling isolated.
**If you haven't already, I'd encourage you to look for a sponsor. Look for someone who has what you're looking for in their life and who shares things in meetings that are meaningful to you. Any sponsor worth their salt is going to support you while you're in survival mode and help you to "work the steps," so you can find ways to go through hard times with grace, and find your own answers about what you want to do with your life.
**Ultimately, recovery can help you answer your own questions about what to do about your marriage situation, but more importantly it can help you address how it got to be okay with you to settle down with and have a baby with a man who is an alcoholic. I'm not saying this in judgement, I'm saying it from personal experience. My first marriage was to a man with alcohol and violence issues, and for years I wondered how to make it better. Then recovery helped me ask the question Do I even WANT to be in a relationship like this, and if so, why?

Good luck with everything. I am holding you, your baby and your husband in my heart, trusting that things will get better for all of you. Bless you all.

[anon]

As the child of an alchoholic father who has been in recovery for at least 20 years now, I just want to encourage you to keep going to Al-Anon and really work the program as previous posters have mentioned above. My father's alchoholism was never overtly visible to us kids, but obviously, it affected my mother deeply. She never left him (for which I am grateful - my dad rocks), but would have never survived staying with him without Al-Anon. More importantly, without the support and perspective that she got from Al-Anon, she would have been a horrible mother to us (her words, not mine). Understandably, you are concerned with the well-being of your son, but don't underestimate the damage that is being done to you, and the importance that you also address your own mental health in this situation. Hugs and best of luck ...

[Nancy]

I am crying reading this, I can't even imagine what you're going through. You are brave for writing to Moxie and for being such a good mom and for everyday that you survive in that situation. Please update Moxie if you can so she can let us know that you are safe. If I lived near you, I would absolutely help in any possible way, there must be someone in your community who would help too, especially another mom, someone who knows what it is to love and care for a child. At least your baby has you, remember that, and hopefully you will be in a safe, happy siutation soon.

[Amy]

Thank you all for your feedback! I just wanted to clarify a few things:
I have my own car.
I live in Michigan.
My mom & siblings are cast off in pretty much ever direction,at least an hour drive for each. they all work full time. My dad is a non-functioning alcoholic. My husband's family is ever decreasing in number. He lost a 24yr old brother to a heroine overdose and lost his 54yr old mom to a heart-attack four years ago. He has no aunties, that he speaks with. He has a grndma, but she is aging and needs help getting up from the sofa, so she gets supervised time with the baby. His father lives out of state and is a functioning alcoholic. His older sister is a drinking buddy of his, so she's off the list.
I agree about the exit strategy. And I know all about co-dependancy issues and the alcoholic brain. The money is the key. I was a successful career person before the baby. I succeed in everything I put my mind too. I try to remember that while dealing with this marriage. For those of you who just haven't been here, please don't judge us. When you judge, you are really revealing your own ignorance and insecurities. I try to take it all in stride, not take it personally, but a few comments I felt were meant to shame me. Shame on mefor hooking up with this person, for having a baby with him. I am 40 and when we found out we were having this child, we were stunned,then jubilant. His compulsive drinking increased through the pregnancy and now here we are, 15 months later. He knows he has a problem. It sucks that his problem is our problem. It's so unfair. My beautiful baby. I feel so robbed of the most precious time as I deal with this. I might leave, I might not. But I could never forgive myself if I didn't try everything, try my absolute best to take care of myself and my baby, and maybe be a good friend to my husband. He is sick and in so much pain. So am I. Thanks to everyone for their sugesstions!

[Kathy B.]

Amy -- you deserve many hugs today and everyday. I was in a disfunctional marriage (alcohol and anger management issues - not to mention some drug use here and there.) I got out but I wish I had done so earlier. Only you can tell what is right and when is the right time to do it.

Are you involved with a church? If you are so-inclined, I will say that I found a great deal of strength within my church community.

Protect yourself; protect your baby. You are an amazing woman and your baby is lucky that you are his/her mom!!

[Alysha]

I grew up with an alcoholic father and I married an abusive "dry" alcoholic (thankfully divorced). My mother left my father when I was three because he decided to sober up all at once and went through DT's blacked out and beat me. He didn't sober up for real permanently until I was 13. They say that an alcoholic won't sober up until they hit rock bottom. Dearest, I am afraid that rock bottom will include losing you and his son in one way or another. What I learned with my abusive husband: You feel like there is no way out, you have no money. You haven't talked to your family or friends in months or years because he (and the baby) just make that impossible. You know what? When you hit rock bottom you will call a friend or family member and you will actually tell them what is going on for real. They will say "When can I pick you up?" and you will have more support than you think is out there! My mother and friend drover over 3 hours, snuck to the house when he was at work and moved me out before he ever got home... all I had to do was ask and I could have SWORN it just would never happen

[aprildelfuego]

Yikes, I can totally see how my previous comment could come across as judgemental, as far as having a family with someone who is an alcoholic goes. I truly didn't mean it that way, though. And I certainly didn't mean that you should be ashamed of yourself...I would never use that word, its such a painful, hurtful concept, and I don't believe anyone deserves to feel shame, including the alcoholic himself, and certainly not you!

I was trying to relate to your situation, not judge it. For better or for worse, I didn't have a child with my alcoholic husband, but otherwise my situation was fairly similar...I was well-educated, I had a successful career, and there I was dealing with a situation I never thought I'd be in...married to a rage-aholic, alcoholic man...who me? It really took me by surprise, especially since in so many ways he was a really great guy. To this day, I stay in touch with him (by e-mail only), and can totally remember all the reasons I wanted to have a family with him.

My comment about asking yourself why you ended up with him was meant to share the benefit of my own painful experience, not to shame you. However, I can see that right now what you need is support and encouragement, not someone questioning your decisions, so I'm very sorry for any stress that my comment may have caused you.

[Heather]

For the sake of your child, and for the sake of yourself,

GET. OUT. NOW.

You will find a way to make it possible to leave. I grew up in an alcoholic household, and then had relationships with a series of alcoholic men. I have started over with nothing more than a duffle bag of my belongings. I recall all too well the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach of never really knowing what to expect. The feeling of powerlessness. The feeling of walking on eggshells. The feeling of watching my mother sob while she was doing dishes. Please, please, please--that programming is so hard to override once it's there, please don't stay there. Don't do that to your child. You don't want this to be your child's idea of "normal" someday. You will be amazed at how much lighter you will feel and how much more energy you will have if you get away from the situation. Make a plan, and just do it. He may not be abusive now, but chances are, he will be eventually. And then your child will be older and it will be so much harder. Make a plan and go. You sound like a smart woman--you will find a way to work it out. Really. You can and you will.

[Brooke]

If you are in the Ann Arbor area, look up Dawn Farm. They are a really excellent inpatient treatment program. I'm sure they have knowledge of other resources as well.

[Maria]

Thanks for filling us in a little more, Amy. I hope all the thoughts and prayers for your situation are somehow easing your burden a little this week (judgmental/uninformed/whatever or not – I feel sure that the Moxie commenters' hearts are in the right place whatever their advice). Again, please feel free to email me if you want to connect more personally (maria at davidgrover dot com), and in any case, have faith that you will get through it, you will make the decisions that are right for YOUR family, YOUR baby, YOURself, and there are lots of people out here pulling for you.

[Sabrina]

I'm delurking because while the topics here are normally so far above my socioeconomic scale as to be laughable this is one that I've lived through and IMO that is a whole lot of horrible advice Moxie.

You don't know this woman from Adam. You assume that because someone you love has the disease of alcoholism that makes them no longer the person that you love. You don't know her situation because you aren't living it. It sucks. I've been there. There with serious PPD along with my drunk during both of my pregnancies, and the following toddlerhoods. It has to be her choice on what to do about her situation. Since she is going to Al-Anon then she already knows that the rules in there include not giving advice to others because you don't know the full situation. Ears, shoulders to cry on, anything else is freely given by those members . . . but not advice on the relationship.

I do agree with the advice to not leave the child unsupervised with the alcoholic. I had to quit my job because my alkie got drunk while watching our first child and didn't feed him for 8 hours. Talk about a double dose of guilt and rage.

Right on also with the advice on finding a friend to trade sitting services for the kids. I did this for years and it worked wonderfully.

I'm sorry if I came off too strong. I'm bad in this medium and I have strong feelings about telling anyone in an alcoholic relationship what they should do. It's so complicated and difficult that just surviving becomes a full-time job some days.

FWIW, I did kick mine out when the situation became dangerous to my kids. But that was a personal decision that no one but myself could have made. It also turned out to be the rock bottom that my drunk needed and they are now a sober parent to our kids, but still not capable of full-time care of them.