First day of school

And I am so relieved. My older son started at a new school today. You may recall that I hated his teacher last year--not as a person, just as a teacher--and thought the school wasn't set up to deal with kids who were already reading. It's a long story about why he was going to our neighborhood school, but the short version is that we had been planning to move to another city in another state, and I'd done all the school search stuff there. He'd gotten into my dream public school (K-8, with siblings automatically accepted). Then I had my gut-wrenching epiphany and asked for a divorce, and that plan fell apart.

So I hadn't done any leg work in Manhattan, including taking the G&T ("gifted and talented") test. Rumors were that our local school was good, so we went there. I don't really believe in pulling kids out for special G&T programs, in the abstract. I feel like teachers ought to be teaching to all the kids, and it's possible to structure things so that you can give kids at each level what they need. But the problem with that theory is that if everyone else has pulled their kid out into a G&T program, then your kid is going to be the one coming home complaining of boredom every single day. And, compounded by a teacher like we had who just shouldn't be in the classroom, it was even worse.

So we did the G&T test. And then had a wacky adventure with the NYC DOE that caused this crying in the conference room episode. And then we got assigned to his current school, in the G&T classroom for his grade. The school is a solid 25 minute walk away, unless some miracle occurs and he gets assigned to a bus route. But, but, but--his teacher! She's young and idealistic and not jaded by the whole thing yet. She's going to come in with her A game, instead of just phoning it in to accumulate years until her pension. And she looks like she isn't going to be tipped over by precocious, mischievous boys.

I walked out of his classroom and burst into tears. Not because I was particularly sad about school, but because I'm so relieved.

The next couple of posts are going to be more about you as parents and school and the social scene, but if you want to talk about anything specific to your kid or teacher or any of that, please post here. Homeschoolers, feel free to express your frustrations and happinesses, too.

Comments

[rudyinparis]

@ pnuts mama--you are so right--and it is so much about "loving the child you have" and striving really hard to SEE that child clearly. FWIW, I also think Eldest is bright, sure, but not gifted. And on this topic I always think "I just want her to be happy. I want her to feel good about herself." My sister was truly gifted--off the charts--and had a horrible, lonely childhood. Certainly that informs a lot of my views. I could go on and on about this topic, but have certainly commented enough today!

And good luck finding the right nursery school for your little Pnut.

[Cathy]

Well....as a product of the Florida public schools and someone sending her kids there....I'm disappointed in the characterizations of Florida schools. I'm not saying whether it's true or justified at all, just my intital gut reaction - We have something like 67 counties, each with its own school district. Maybe not all of them are on par with Maryland (or Alabama or NYC or where ever else). But they're not all crummy either.

Ultimately though, it's an interesting discussion about stratification, socio-economic backgrounds, publicly funded pre-k programs to bring kids up to speed before kindergarten, equal access to testing for gifted students, gifted programs that meet the requirements of the consumers (as with any special ed program), teacher burnout (and related issues with NCLB, respect, paying a living wage, etc), mixed in with the idea that we all love our kids and want the best possible future for them.

I hope the new school is a good match for you and your son!

[rudyinparis]

My God, I have some freakish compulsion to keep commenting today...

But just had to clarify that my sister had a horrible childhood experience in school, not at home, obviously, where she was loved and cherished by my parents and me. But I think her experience of school was pretty much entirely unpleasant. (Until she reached higher ed.)

[MrsHaley]

@Julie~ We had very similar test results -- I feel you, sister. Since then, I've done a lot of pre-emptive reading on DS and have found/discovered/decided it's quite simply not the worst that could happen. I'm due in 3 weeks and since we didn't do the amnio, we don't know for sure ... but we're prepared. You will be, too. Once you've processed a little more (maybe after the amnio results) Google "Welcome to Holland." It will make you cry. But in a good way. Please keep us posted. You are in my heart.

[N.]

I am starting as a new teacher tomorrow. It's a part-time job, which is fine considering how much work I will have to do outside school hours!

The kidlet starts in a new room at day care after being home all summer (we call it play school, since they have a curriculum). He'll be one of the youngest in his class this time, since he just turned 3. This will be a true test of all the potty-training work we did this summer.

I am a bit freaked out about starting my new job. I am trying to remind myself that the kids won't know I'm so new (this is a second career so I don't look like the typical recent college grad), and that I am the expert, even though I sometimes doubt my abilities.

[rudyinparis]

Oh, oh, Cathy, the original comment about Florida came from me, via a coworker who worked in Special Ed. there--and I really didn't mean to discredit all of the Florida educational system... the point I was trying to make was about how gifted programs (in any area) can possibly contribute to class/race stratification. Mea culpa.

@Mrs.Haley, I agree the "Welcome to Holland" essay is beautiful. Good luck to you, too.

[hedra]

@Julie, I don't have a lot of detail to offer you, but at least you can put any post-amnio loss worries aside - last research out showed no greater risk of loss after amnio with current techniques than without amnio (previous data was based on techniques from the 80's-90's, things have improved since then). Fingers crosssed for you, all around.

@rudyinparis and pnuts mama, I tend to think of calling one's child 'gifted' as part of the skill vs talent issue, where we try to emphasize skill, because kids just plain function better on the whole when the emphasis is on effort instead of innate stuff. And it still falls out of my mouth at times... sigh. That said, when G was very little (just over 6 months?), it became apparent that he had some kind of musical gift in the sense of advanced development. I (being new to all this) went and read a lot of gifted websites (hoagies-gifted was a favorite), and the bottom line was not ACHIEVE but BE HAPPY. Why don't you see all those gifted kids out there running the world? Because they're happier doing what makes them happy - some will be doing that stuff, some will not be. I rapidly got sick of teachers and staff cooing 'oh, I cannot WAIT to see what he does when he grows up!' ... um, he's not required to become a superstar, thanks. And actually - he's where he should be, not rockets but strong, academically gifted, and without a bit of real passion for music at the moment - likes it, enjoys listening, has a great ear, does well in band, and totally NOT in any need of special classes. I'm much happier with him being classified into the 'smart but not scary smart' level. Good enough, no pressure to be spectacular. I want him to be happy, that's the priority. And frankly it is rather a relief to not have to worry about whether a good school will serve him well enough for him to thrive. He doesn't need a special program, and that's okay with me.

I have a couple siblings who are off-the-charts gifted (I'm the stupid and talentless one of my sibs, by the way...), and they've all eventually found happiness of some sort or other. But there were quite some rough roads in there along the way, even with parents who cared more about joy than grades. The contrast between when they were not happy and when they are is huge, and provides a nice big underline to the 'it isn't about the IQ or talent, it's about who they are as human beings' approach.

[mo]

Interesting dialogue today...

I just wanted to chime in that I had some AMAZING teachers in HS. Really took an interest in the kids - I was on the AP track so maybe it went both ways (the teachers knew we were interested in learning and so they were interested in teaching?).

I also think there is a lot to the nurturing vs nature concept. I'm guessing my boys will be perceived as being smart because we've read to them from day one and it is a regular part of our day (and as a result they love it and so we do it more, and so forth). Sadly, the family that doesn't have access to books or the time to read (or the parent's education is lacking so they can't read to their kids) - the kids in that family will automatically be at a disadvantage regardless of the child's natural IQ/intelligence. If that child were to be blessed with an awesome teacher, I'm guessing he/she would probably bypass my kids but unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way.

Not sure where math aptitude comes in - maybe that is truly just an intelligence thing and you either get it or you don't? Again, I think certain teachers can really coax more out of some students than others but the natural aptitude needs to be there.

I think I'm rambling at this point.

@Julie/@MrsHaley - keeping my fingers crossed for you both.

[Diane D]

@Julie: Good luck and hang in there, and do your best to focus on the 92% chance that there's no downs. Keep us posted!

My baby just turned 1, so no school worries so far. Though I'm already cognizant of the fact that he'll be among the youngest in his grade and likely to be small for his age anyway. I'll definitely be paying close attention to his social readiness to start 1st grade in another 5 years.

I have strong feelings regarding G&T classes...or at least math & reading separated into levels. I was very advanced academically as a child. I was bored to tears in the classes (science, social studies, English) that weren't separated into levels. I loved math and reading, which were. I wonder sometimes what would have become of me if my school hadn't had those classes-- I wonder if I'd have given up, become a troublemaker....it wouldn't have been positive. My blood boils when I hear now that the more advanced students should be placed in class with the least advanced students to help them achieve more-- that levels should be ditched. If that had been done to me, I'd have just checked out if not become a true problem. There has to be a better way. I don't like the idea of holding the most advanced students back to the level of the least.

I was in GT classes all through school. In elementary, we were pulled out of class-- just a few of us-- to go to a special class. I don't know if that was the best way to do it really though, because I know it made me feel special, so it probably made the other kids feel not-special. But I really gained a lot from the program.

Once our boy is school age, it'll be a priority for me to find a school/program where he can be challenged according to his abilities, whatever they turn out to be. (Mostly I just want him to be happy though-- don't we all? If I had to choose brilliant or blissful, I'd take blissful!)

[professor mama]

@julie: i too had the same stats as you with the bloodtest *after* a normal ultrasound. everything turned out fine. when i asked why my numbers showed what they did (from the blood test), the geneticist said that the numbers were just what was normal for my baby. and then somehow the "normal" numbers for the baby get skewed when age is factored in (i was almost 40). i think the false/positive rates for the triple screen are something like 25%. but those few days waiting for the amnio results were the longest of my life ....

[michelle]

@enu-

Your experience differs from mine, to say the least. Then again, only a couple of our friends are Ivy Leaguers but I will say that their kids (so far) seem to act like everyone else's.

What I mean by "truly gifted" in the context of this discussion is a child who has already mastered so much of the class curriculum that she or he is simply not learning in a "regular" class for children of her age.

So, no, if I understand your Jane Austen reference right (ummmm...maybe you are talking about a different Mr. Darcy), I'm not saying that children need to be SO accomplished to be considered G & T that it would be practically unobtainable. That completely misses the point. I'm just saying it is a little ridiculous that G & T should be a badge of privledge in my local school system and I question how much the "teacher pleasing" and other nonsense that @Shandra mentioned occurs. That's it. I'm not passing judgment on Moxie's kid who, I hope and imagine, will thrive in his new class. I'm not saying there should be NO G&T. I just think the switch to blind testing, etc., might not be a bad idea.

[professor mama]

@ julie one more time: if you decide to do the amnio, ask the doctor about her/his complication rate. i decided to drive 2 hours one way to a doctor who had the lowest post-amnio complication rate in our state; all he did was perform amnios everyday, all day, so his complication rate was extremely low. that's the only way we would have done it.

[enu]

@michelle I do so agree with you that if there are to be gt classes, the selection should be blind. Absolutely. I grew up the "victim" of a system where that was not the case - there were victims on boths sides of the equation, the haves and the have nots. The extremely biased system of selecting students for "special" tracks created a horrendous level of animosity between the classes.

But, yeah, most of my kids' peers prolly would qualify as gifted. Many are truly freaky smart. And having to spend her whole school day doing stuff she already knew gave the little one a real unhappy feeling about school. So maybe a G&T program would have been a good thing. Oh well....

[Moxie]

@michelle, so you're saying in your area the G&T is political? That there are other ways to get your kid in? That truly bites. In NYC it's two ridiculous tests that probably have no correlation to anything, but it's all test scores that determine it. Get above a certain cutoff and you can choose from a certain batch of schools. Get above a level lower than that and you can choose from a smaller subset of schools. You choose, they decide who gets what, and you get what you get and you don't get upset.

Also, as pnuts mama says, the rich and privileged all send their kids to private schools, so this whole G&T stuff is really only for those of us peons in the middle and lower class, anyway.

(Although should we talk about the fact that kids whose parents are less literate and/or don't speak English aren't necessarily going to know about the tests or understand what they're about? Or that the communications from the NYC DOE are pretty incomprehensible so it's highly probable that kids who test well still don't get into the G&T system simply because their parents have no idea what the mailings say? Or that there are far fewer G&T programs to start with in areas with lower average income levels? But at least in Manhattan it's better than nothing.)

[Heather]

What gifted means: For sure not every child is in the top fifth (or tenth) percentile. But because the gifted label is often a free pass into a more interesting and challenging classroom, gifted seems like it is often used as a proxy for "bored by what is expected at grade level." And I think that's probably true of many kids.

My son is only four, so I'm really only guessing here, but I imagine a gifted program is just more interesting for children--fewer worksheets, more opportunity to pursue what they find interesting in greater detail, more reading actual books and fewer textbooks, less rote, more possibility for love of learning.

I'm uncomfortable with the label for many of the reasons already discussed, and thinking globally I wish we had smaller classrooms, better and more flexible curricula, and teachers who get the support they need. But, for my own kid, if we don't homeschool, of course I will pursue the local gifted program if it seems like he's bored with what the mainstream classroom offers.

[Cathy]

Moxie - that's what I see as an issue to having a more diverse gifted class. My husband, born in Vietam, to a woman with a 4th grade education ended up testing gifted in high school.

If his mother had read to him when he was little, would he have qualified sooner? Or if she had spoken up and requested that he get tested? My husband's little sister is no slouch either - what if their mom could have been a better advocate? Would she have ended up in a gifted program?

The first thing I think of to level the socio-economic playing field is publicly funded pre-k (although I can see the limitations of this - Florida's is 5 days x 3 hours per day, which is mighty inconvenient if you're working full time and your daycare situation (grandma? a nanny? an in-home daycare?) doesn't lend itself to attending the program)

Then, once I started reading the thread, and considered the concept of blind testing (whoda thunk?) - what would keep a public school from testing everyone and placing them appropriately? I bet it comes down to funding. It always seems like it does - I'm sure it's much cheaper to (a)test less and (b)keep everyone in the same class until their mother asks for them to be tested for gifted. Jaded and cynical maybe?

[r+k+mama]

@julie, @MrsHaley- Thinking of you.

Holy crap! I always figured, but now I know- there are a lot of smart mama's on this site! (Ummm.....I'm not one of them but that's OK :). )I did very well in school (K-BACH DEG) but never tested super high in anything but English and did do some AP classes in high school but by then I was way more interested in the social scene (at which I was advanced haha) than academics. Just don't talk to me about math - that's my big anxiety for my kids. I have SEVERE math anxiety. (3.9 Cum/4 yrs of college and I almost didn't graduate because I couldn't pass a remedial math course.) I refuse to do what my mom did to me ("Oh honey, I was terrible at math- it's in your genes to suck at it.")so I'm gonna play it cool and hopefully they'll develop the skills they need and then some- but I won't tell them it's OK to suck and give up. I will get them the help they need!! (Wow, I'm not sure where that all came from- sorry for the totally off topic rant).
This has been an interesting topic to follow today. Rowan starts preschool next week and so help me God I just want to shove her back in my uterus. Until I don't, and I want to maybe slow the car down to 5mph before tossing her to her teachers for 2.5 hours. Ahhh, the delicate balance of motherhood...

[michelle]

@Moxie-

Yes, I haven't applied for my kids, but my understanding from the County website and two neighborhood Moms is that gifted placement in Elementary School is an application-type process which involves what I consider to be some degree of "nonsense".

[pnuts mama]

@r+k+mama- oh, that is exactly me right now! i *need* her to be in some sort of activity where i am not, for her and my own sanity, but then i just want her to curl up and be my wee baby again. yeesh.

@moxie- i'm hoping since this is the first real year of this new g&t testing all the kids system that many of the bugs are worked out before elP and pnut have to go through it. i really do.

@rudyinparis- you're making me laugh a lot today. love it.

i was also thinking that when you're labeled g&t it's important for your parents and teachers to impress upon you the value that to those whom much is given, much is expected- so you don't get the swelled head, as my aunt used to say. off to change a poopy diaper now, which will deflate a swelled head like nobody's business!

[Moxie]

@Michelle, OK, then that completely bites and makes your first comment make total sense. It is like a popularity contest that doesn't serve anyone, especially the kids. Sigh. And makes you want to opt out just on principle.

@Cathy, yeah. Everything you said. Especially the publicly funded preK, which is only geared to kids with a caregiver at home who can pick up.

[Anna]

@Julie/@Mrs.Haley- Along the lines of "Welcome to Holland" is this Story Corps conversation between a father and his daughter, who has Down syndrome: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6594348

I heard this when I was pregnant and in that worried, what if stage, and for the first time, I felt like things would be OK--wonderful even--regardless.

[Cloud]

@r+k mama- I'm the product of two non math and science types, and I ended up with a PhD in a mix of bio and physical sciences. My sister is in a fairly quantitative field, too. So it is possible. No one in the family really knows how that happened, but I suspect the "credit" goes to our teachers.

Speaking of which- I didn't mean my earlier comment to imply that I only had so-so teachers in my public schools. I had some great ones, too. But the schools were still pretty mediocre in terms of curriculum, even with the gifted/advanced placement options on offer. I had a tough time the first year of college (I went to a school with a rep for academic rigor) when a lot of my peers from the east coast prep schools had clearly already learned everything in the intro math and science classes in high school, while it was all new to me. But you know what- I learned how to study that first year, and by third year I was doing as well or better than the prep school kids, some of whom were struggling because... they hadn't learned how to study at the college level. I came away thinking that it all worked out.

On the testing into gifted programs- where I went to school in AZ, eons ago, placement was by tests. My 3rd grade teacher (one of the ones with all the worksheets) advocated for me to be placed in the program despite a test score just below the cutoff. She said I just didn't test well and belonged in the program. Who knows what was true? I know I loved the program, and that I later got better at testing (I credit music for that, but that is another long post). So there is a reason some places don't just rely on tests.

[hush]

Would anyone out there care to share their perspective on homeschooling?

Something we're considering, but are aware of the many caveats.

[mo]

Kids still aren't school aged and we are stalling on preschool. We are toying with private school over public but not sure if we will be able to (or will want to) afford it when the time comes. My general (uneducated) feeling is that public schools are becoming more and more geared to testing and teaching to pass the tests that general teaching has lost out (this is definitely not a criticism of teachers as most of my friends are teachers and most complain about the amount of tests and how that takes over their lesson plans and that those tests are how they are judged as teachers) but that you wouldn't get that so much at the private schools - they can just teach with the goal of learning not testing. Does that make any sense? Any comments from either "side"?

[MrsHaley]

I don't think I have ever commented so much!

@mo -- the two differences between private & public that I think are most significant (but not necessarily good or bad) are: #1, private school teachers are usually not required to have a certain level/type of education, to be state-certified or to participate in professional development. Some private schools DO require their employees to meet stringent standards, but some don't. That may be good news or bad news to a parent -- it depends on your perspective.

#2 -- Private schools are not required to offer special services like special ed or emotional support (or even G&T enrichment!). So if the student has or is identified later as needing those types of special services, they may not be available. Of course, some private schools do.

@hush -- I do a lot of "freelance" work with the homeschooling community in this area and two things I've noticed come at either end of the educational continuum. #1 -- Many people decide to try homeschooling when their children are young because "How hard can it be?" and "Kindergarten is just about writing letters and learning to count, right?" Soooo far from the truth. It is not easy in the least. Homeschooling a very young child should be taken as seriously as educating an 18-year-old. Their education deserves equal respect, diligence and attention.

#2 -- I have met many homeschoolers whose families are abysmally uninformed about postsecondary requirements/choices and have limited their student's options by virtue of their ignorance about college admissions, ASVAB testing and the like. Homeschooling high schoolers requires being the equivalent of your child's teacher AND guidance counselor.

I think I have said enough for today!

[r+k+mama]

@pnuts mama- glad I'm not alone!!

@Cloud- Thanks for the hope!!

[Lisa F.]

Bean heading to preschool tomorrow and while I'm relieved & thrilled, I've just become so so sad about my little one growing up!

I was pushed hard to go to college from a very young age, & went through 12 years of school with pretty much the same classmates in Maine 30ish years ago (senior class ~100.) There were about 12 of us who were serious college-track (didn't have AP at that time.) We all took 4 years of Latin, & were the only ones to take chemistry. I have no clue how the selection process worked but most of them were in the G & T program, and did these funky projects like making a landing pad so an egg wouldn't break when tossed. I wasn't chosen and while noone really talked about it, we knew who was G & T, it was divisive & painful for me.

I've always wondered why I wasn't chosen. My mom was asked to complete the paperwork for my sister to participate in the same program, and never heard anything back after she turned it in. I did well in high school, but wasn't very creative. Good at memorizing, well-liked by teachers and getting the grades, played sports moderately well. My younger sister was very creative, and was ostracized for her differences (dressing punky, into artsy stuff & music) which culminated in her feeling suicidal & dropping out of high school her senior year. She was a very gifted artist, but I fear she was always compared to me academically. She pretty much gave up the art as far as I can tell.

In 8th grade I was one of 6 kids who was in an advanced English class & we sat in the corner of the rudimentary English class and did very cool projects (e.g. mapping out the chronology of The Princess Bride (novel) on adding machine tape.) it always felt odd to be in this special group set apart yet within the other.

Not sure what my point is, other than I've got a chip on my shoulder about the whole G&T thing; and I'm sometimes concerned about what Bean's experience in school will be & how much will come back up for me & muddy how I shepherd him through. I'm also concerned about the state of our public schools. I don't want to take him out, I want to help them change. I realize the intense load on the teachers, and here it's all End of Grade testing.

There's also an issue in the town here, school #1 Bean would track into geographically has high free-lunch rate, low test scores, while year round school#2, 2 blocks away connected to historic district is flourishing, has low free lunch rate. Talk of equalizing 2 schools had parent group up in arms at school 2. it smacks of racism & classism. and people have talked about parents at school 1 not being involved, and I think, well it's hard to be 'involved' if you're trying to keep body & soul together working a zillion jobs or a single mom or what have you. yet.... I worry about my kid going to school #1 & feel hypocritical.

@Julie & MrsHaley, thinking of you, and re: PP switching those numbers to percentage, think of that. when "they" talk "1 in xyz" it sounds so much scarier than if you make it a percentage and look at the large chance that things will be fine, and prepare as you feel moved to for the things that have been brought to your attention as a concern. (from someone who delivered first at age 41 and felt terrorized by the whole genetic counseling thing.) please do keep us posted.

[hush]

@MrsHaley - thanks! Kiddo won't start K for another 5 years, so this is all lightyears away for us. Just wondering about the idea of homeschooling for a few years at the elementary level as a possible haven from some of the emotional abuse kids sometimes have to deal with at school, as well as a solution to the boredom some superextraspecial* kids have to experience.

*Note: mama always said all god's children are special....

[hedra]

@hush, a good place to start is to buy/borrow 'What Your Kindergartener Should Know' - it's a curriculum book that was initially developed for homeschoolers, then was adapted into a school curriculum (actually, the full set of grades were). This is the Core Knowledge curriculum - and the old snipes about it being white/northern-european have been addressed fairly reasonably. Yes, they start out heavy on greek/roman/egyptian history and philosophy, but they also cover everywhere else in more depth as it goes. It's a good starting place for figuring out if you can do this, and the curriculum is advanced enough that it covers all the standardized testing ground and then some.

This is the curriculum that our charter uses, it is federally approved as a public school curriculum, and it is fun, interesting, and engaging (and likely you'll learn a lot, too). There are plenty of jumping off places for further exploration, but you'll cover all the ground with this one as a base. This was the curriculum my SIL/BIL started out with when they started homeschooling, and that convinced me that you could get a great education at home, too.

I'm being whomped majorly by the 5th grade content - much of it is stuff I learned at some point, but some is either entirely new to me or stuff I didn't expect to encounter yet... But up to now, it looks like it would be fun to teach, learn, explore, and discover.

Also, check into your state homeschooling associations. They should have a lot of resources available, information, guidance, etc. PA has a great program, which also allows kids to participate (at least in some places) in extracurricular activities (sports and the like) at their local public school even if they are not attending public school. There are a few hoops to jump through, but not too many.

Having watched my SIL/BIL's kids go through homeschooling, jump to public for part of HS (some, individually chosen), and two proceed to college without a hitch (one enlisted, the other two are still in middle school and HS), and to find their biggest issue with public school was that most of the kids weren't interested or engaged in their education ... it isn't our chosen path, but it can definitely be a good one. (Actually, when BIL and I were chatting about G's school when he started there, BIL said, 'wow, if he could eat whenever he wanted and bring his cat, it would be almost like homeschooling!' Heh.)

Anyway, checking out the curricula available may help you scope out your issues, any resistance, any help/resources, areas of stress or panic (one of my issues, there, LOL!), etc. And that should help you decide what to do. I do think you can do it, it just does have to be taken seriously. As I'm sure you would anyway. :)

[Julie]

Thank you everyone for your kind words. Mrs. Haley, I'll be thinking of you too. Please keep me posted. I also appreciate comment by professor mama who mentioned her elevated levels that were "normal" for her baby and body. With my first, I also had elevated levels, though not as high (but I was also 34 at the time and not 37 like I am now). So I think it's possible that's just how I cook 'em.

This is an amazing group of friends I feel lucky to have in my corner. I wish I could comment more on the G &T conversation, as I have a lot to say about that and education in general....but all my energy was sucked into starting my own classroom yesterday and focusing on my kids, and then getting whomped on the head with blood results. Since this topic has come up in the past, I'm confident it will come up again. What a smart, amazing group of people this is. I think it's really scary that there are so many different means of classifying G&T kids in the various states, and just goes to show that while educators are able to intervene in remediation cases, they often just don't know what to do with the students on the other end of the spectrum. Having taught many G&T kids over the years (and gotten really creative in how to challenge them while at the same time meet the needs of the other 25 students in my class), it can be an intense and exhausting process, where it's easy to beat yourself up and feel like you're not meeting ANYONE'S needs. One of my most gifted students' mother told me once "Boredom is a gift to my son's genius", meaning, it's good for him to learn how to navigate in a world full of people who are not like him, that he has to be responsible for taking control of his education and challenging himself sometimes, that it's not someone else's responsibility to jump everytime he says, "I'm bored", and to find creative ways to outlet his intelligence. And also that sometimes the most creative, inventive ideas are born from being "bored". Stimulation 100% of the time is not healthy for anyone. A healthy balance is needed, and cooperation and collaboration on the part of the student, teacher, and parents is needed. Often more so for the gifted kids than the kids who are working below grade level.

Wow. That was much more than I intended to say so early in the morning when probably everyone is finished with this post anyways. But again, I want to say "thank you" to you all.

[hedra]

@michelle, the stink of politics in the G&T program isn't a new concept to me, though it isn't a major issue locally, just a bit farther away it very much IS a major issue, with limitations on who can do the testing, and where, and when, that are restrictive for working parents (even professionals). Add in the stories I've heard about some schools resisting implementing IEPs for certain students unless threatened with lawsuits... it gets ugly. But at least once they're fully IN, they're in, and things ease up. It's just GETTING in that seems to be ungodly and stinks of favoritism and an 'in crowd'...

Sigh.

@mo, you may be best off looking at each school individually. The trade-offs are so varied that it gets hard to lump all public and all private together as sets. Within public there are charters (which may be better or worse than the public OR private), and within private there are wide variations, and within each subgroup there are cultural and academic and social and family-involvement requirements/issues/traps that need to be sussed out as well. The school that is perfect may be any of the above. The schools that are next-best and definitely good enough may be one of each, or all in one category.

Issues we've encountered with private vs public (including niece who is in public non-charter):

1) Private has a lot of ethnic diversity in our area - whites are a minority - but almost zero diversity in economic strata. This is often limited by the tuition and scholarship issue. If they have no scholarships, expect that to play a role in the population.

2) Straight public is limited by how the district is managed (and in our state, how the state budget is set). Schools around us are told how much they can spend of their budget for each area of effort, including salaries, curriculum, supplies, etc., etc. Micromanaged out of being able to make effective choices for their populations, essentially. Add in serious budget cuts on an ongoing basis, and a tendency to move principals and vprincipals and other administration around EACH YEAR (including mid-years)... ug.ly. The political scene plays a big role in public schools, though at least a lot of it is visible to the outside. Public also varies wildly in quality, and not just by test scores. Also rates of violence (our state lists the incidents by school), education level of teachers (also listed by school), etc. Easier to research this information for public (including charter) schools.

3) Charters have their own political issues, either within their board/admin staff or between them and the public district. This can be much more hidden than typical public schools. Their curricula vary wildly from one to the next, quality of teaching and administration varies also, and rate of draw and from which groups varies on top of that.

Then there's the whole services issue - the state funded speech therapy could not be done at the private school, 'they don't go there' (even though the school allowed it). We had to take B to another school to get his speech therapy. ugh. The PT/OT folks did fine getting to M for her therapy, though. Under 3 yrs old, they'd go anywhere, over 3, they only go to home or public schools. Whee.

So far, so good for everyone, even though things are imperfect at each place.

Not sure if that helped at all...

[mo]

Thanks, Hedra and MrsHaley, yes it helps... for some reason it all just seems so complicated (and time consuming).

[hush]

@hedra - thank you so much for all of the great homeschooling info; I'm going to check out that book for sure & also look into montessori options.

@julie & mrsHaley - echoing the caring chorus here, sending many positive thoughts your way. Please keep us posted.

[laney]

Just my two cents- (I happen to be a young, idealistic 8th year, 2nd grade teacher who teaches in a full inclusion school)- sometimes parents think gifted instruction should be WIDER rather than DEEPER. In other words, gifted instruction is not different instruction, just more focused, deep instruction in whatever areas your child excels at. It is about not only what your child brings to the table in terms of ABILITY, but in EFFORT (which also has a lot to do with readiness)- so even if your child has been labeled "gifted" by a test (which is pretty silly if you thnk about it, a test is going to show aptitude, not potential- think about all of the stunningly talented, funny, quirky, brilliant kids you know who just can't come through the "testing")- your child needs to be ready, willing, and able to take things deeper. High school gifted programs- even middle school- are more apt to be impressive not because of the delivery but because of acceptance and other learned skills. So, don't be too hard on a teacher. A good teacher treats all of her students like they are gifted- and they are- and instead focuses on strenghths, interests, and task commitment to make sure the children stay with it, in it, and thinking as far outside of each box as they can reach. Every interaction, every lesson then has the potential to meet that child exactly where they are, and to bring them along as far as they can go. Does this make sense? So while a good result on a gifted test confirms what most people believe about their child and is a great ego boost, sometimes the alignment of a strong program for all students and a child who has more readiness than "natural smarts" is most successful. As a parent myself, I would worry less then about the gifted program in a preschool or elementary school, and more about the teacher's ability to differentiate instruction for each child. A good teacher does what a good parent does- scaffolds care and steers the child in the right direction, and then releases them slowly and enthusiastically down the slide to meet them at the other end, ready for more questions. =)

[New Balance 574]

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