Waiting

For those of you who have written me or are thinking of writing me or are just starting to let a little light into the thought that you might need to leave your marriage to save yourself, I need to offer a warning:

It is not easy.

Getting out of a marriage, even when the relationship has been dead for years or never really existed, is a long, painful, complicated procedure. It's like chewing your leg off to get out of a trap, only you're also chewing your kids' legs off, too. You know it's the only way to stay alive for all of you, and that you can heal and go on to live better things, but it hurts.

These past two years have been about losing. Losing who I thought I had to be, losing what I thought was important, losing what I thought my kids were going to have. Losing time with them, and the ability to be home with them. Losing sleep, losing my standing in the community.

You will lose friends. Sometimes people are either too secure in their own marriages or too insecure in their own marriages to want to be around someone in transition. Some women will assume that you're on the prowl for their husbands. People will tell you you're not a good mother because you're ripping apart your children's family.

It turns you into both a mirror for other people's insecurities and a deep well of things they never thought were in you. It's unsettling, for them and for you.

People will tell you divorce is the easy way out. The only people who say that are people who've never gone through it. It would be far easier to just say nothing, to suck it up and try to make yourself OK with things, to shrink so far into yourself that the only thing left is your motherlove for your children. To know your children deserve better, but to be living as a shadow of yourself.

But here is the thing: At a certain point, you will not be able to stay. Staying will suddenly be the impossible thing, instead of the only thing you can imagine. And you will be ready to do whatever it takes to leave. No matter how hard it gets, no matter how many obstacles you run into, no matter how much you lose.

Then, once you are stripped down farther than you thought you could be, the helpers start to appear. New friends, old friends who were waiting for you, kind bosses and co-workers, the guys at the deli across the street who tease your kids, your friends on the internet.

You can do this. But it's going to make you cry. A lot.

Now, two practical suggestions, for no matter where you are in the process:

1) Read the book Uncoupling by Diane Vaughan. It charts the process of ending a relationship from both sides, in a non-judgmental way. It was super-helpful for me in understanding how it all happened from my end, and also in understanding where my kids' dad was in the process. No blame, just really good insights, like the idea that the first "betrayal" of the relationship is when one partner feels like something is wrong but can't verbalize it enough to share it with the other partner. No assumptions about sexes of partners or legal status of the relationship.

2) Do NOT Google or Facebook search former boyfriends or girlfriends. It will only make you feel bad about your current situation, while impressed with how your former partners have turned out. It's tempting, but don't go there.

Comments

[Ashramama]

Eeeeeek. Thanks :-\

[Shannon]

I seriously want to smack anybody who told you that you were ripping apart your children's family. Why do people feel like they can say those kinds of things?

What stood out for me in this post was the idea of choosing the best path in any given circumstances. Yes, the ideal would be to have a perfect little nuclear family, but if that isn't working, you need to find the best way to remedy the situation for all involved parties. Because even if it's initially bad in a "the only way out is through it" kind of way, in the end it is the best thing you could do, given the circumstances. And I think that idea applies to a number of life's problems. It would be great is you had no problem in the first place, but since you do, what can you do to find the best possible solution?

[caramama]

Oh, Moxie! I wish I could give you a big hug!

I can't even imagine how difficult it must be to go through. But at least you KNOW it's the right thing for you, your soon-to-be-ex and even your children. Don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise when you know in your heart that it is the right thing. Good luck to all of you.

I'd like to think I speak for everyone when I say thank you for giving yourself in so many ways to us even when you feel like you are continuously losing. And thank you for addressing this issue in a way that is designed to help others. You really are amazing.

[stacy]

People will tell you divorce is the easy way out. The only people who say that are people who've never gone through it.

Ugh, a thousand times yes. Hearing that divorce is "too easy" makes my stomach churn in violent anger. Nothing, nothing is easy about it!

Hang in there. You're doing a great job at a hard thing.

I had to actually delete my Facebook because I felt so insecure about people from high school finding me. I went to a private school and I swear, everyone in the Class of 96 became an international superstar of something...except me, who hardly knows her ass from a hole in the wall. Facebook is totally not worth the grief.

[Sherry]

Great post and warning, Moxie. And as I'm sure you know, as hard as this has been on your kids, what you do now and over the next few years for them is more important than what you all have already been through. That's what I have witnessed, anyway.

[meggiemoo]

I read somewhere that divorce is like being in a car crash every day for a year.

Probably no consolation, but you're a lovely writer...

[anonformymom]

"to shrink so far into yourself that the only thing left is your motherlove for your children. To know your children deserve better, but to be living as a shadow of yourself." This is my mom. And as much as it would've been difficult to go through a divorce as a child, things are much worse now. My parents are still together, 30+ years later. And we all continue to suffer.

You are doing the right thing.

[Cloud]

Moxie, I continue to be impressed with the classy way you are handling this. It is clear to me that you are trying to do what is best for your family (which includes you!) and shame on anyone who says otherwise.

@Stacy- I have a similar reaction to the accomplishments of some of my college and grad school classmates. My career seems a bit rinky-dink in comparison. But I've finally gotten to a place where I don't care so much, because I'm pretty happy in my life. Just because they have success in their careers, it doesn't mean that they have truly successful lives. And no one posts the bad stuff on Facebook.

[hedra]

Oh, Moxie, sending you hugs and tea as well. Or margaritas, they seem to be needed a lot lately.

I'm sorry for the jerks, and I'm sorry for the pain, and I'm glad for the everyday folks who make it better, sane, real, safe, and accepted.

In my experience, the same stripped-down, no-escape, there is only ONE path from here, every other avenue is closed sensation was how I got INTO my marriage. It simply was the only choice for us. We both felt that there was just nothing.else.possible. It was like being launched in a single trajectory by a rocket, being hit by a train, everything but the essential core stripped away as unimportant and gone in the blink of an eye. It was a near-physical sensation.

Maybe not the only valid way into marriage, and definitely not guaranteed to keep us from ending up equally driven on the sole path to get out. But maybe strangely, I can scent the same 'there is only this'-ness in your words.

I hope you find your way along that path with fewer and fewer jerks and more and more kind strangers.

[anontoday]

my parents should have divorced 15-20 years ago. They are still together and as far as I can tell (and am told by each), all they do is make each other miserable. I wish they had and wish they would now, instead of my mother telling me every conversation how she is unhappy and trapped (and about every guy who looks at her crosswise... but that is a different insecurity).

[hedra]

Needed to say this, deleted it, but had to restate it anyway....

I had someone tell me that I was *of course* shattered because my parents divorced. TELL me that, as a fact. ALL children of divorce are shattered by it.

Um. No.

I would have been more shattered if they had stayed together and become shadows of themselves. I spent years in therapy trying to track down the source of my relationship pain, with people always telling me that it was the divorce, obviously, that caused me to fear and react and mess things up... only to finally one day discover that it was the time BEFORE the divorce, the time when I felt both parents closing down emotionally, turning away from each other, themselves, and therefore unable to really even be open to us, that was the time that wounded me, made me fearful, set up the pain echo. The second I touched that 'pre-divorced' state as the issue, it released its grip on me.

If my parents had chosen to stay, lose themselves more and more, I can't imagine who I would be today. The divorce freed me from being a daily witness to my parents vanishing before my eyes, to places I could not reach. Yes, I needed to address that in therapy, but it was a single touchpoint - the hardest thing was getting past everyone's assumptions that it was 'the divorce' that was a problem for me.

I hope your kids see into that transition more easily than I did, and recognize that change is hard, painful, the whole leg-chewing off thing hurts like crazy, and yet going is whole, and staying is just shattering in slow motion, one fragment at a time.

[hedra]

(oh, and I said 'more shattered' not because the divorce shattered anything - I clearly remember being a lot confused and even more relieved by the changes - but because other things did their damage, too. The whole abuse issue is separate.)

[Shandra]

Thinking good thoughts your way. Thanks for writing on this!

[Jan]

I hope I can post this without it sounding like a criticism in any way of Moxie for what I absolutely believe is HER choice in HER situation and therefore not my place to judge.

I just want to present another option for anybody that's beginning to have doubts about her marriage, or that's even feeling surer every day that things are going down the tubes.

Sometimes it can be done. Sometimes a marriage that's teetering on the brink of the abyss can be pulled back. It, too, can be hard, gut-wrenching, soul-searching work. (I can recommend a book called Divorce Busting by Michelle Weiner-Davis. It's NOT a book about staying in a marriage that's making you miserable; it's about re-creating a marriage that makes you happy, but doing it with the person you're already married to, if that makes sense).

I do know that marriage is hard work, and that it is challenging in ways I never even considered. It takes a really honest evaluation of yourself and your relationship and what is affecting which to be able to make a decision like Moxie made.

Moxie, thank you for sharing so much of your process with us. I'm sorry for all the hurt, for all four of you, and for all those who find themselves in an intractable situation.

[rudyinparis]

I often wonder how it is that Moxie has created/enabled a community that is so remarkably judgement free... or, when judgements are made, people here are able to back up and ask for clarification, or apologize, or offer clarification... (Yesterday's conversation was very touching, I thought.) Reading her post today I'm struck by how through her very tone she conveys "This is my story, my experience that I am working through and this is what I am finding and I am doing the very best I can..." and that perhaps it is this ability she has that has made this space possible...

The phrase "being a mirror for other people's insecurities" really speaks to me. I am trying to examine this in my lived life when it happens, and learn from it. If I dislike someone, what is it about them that I dislike? Because surely that is something I need to look for in the mirror. So, yes, Moxie, I can imagine many people are very uncomfortable with your divorce and with looking there. And it's too bad that makes them unable to be there for you. You are wise to see this playing out, and to see it for what it is.

Keep us in the loop. We're here for you.

[rudyinparis]

I often wonder how it is that Moxie has created/enabled a community that is so remarkably judgement free... or, when judgements are made, people here are able to back up and ask for clarification, or apologize, or offer clarification... (Yesterday's conversation was very touching, I thought.) Reading her post today I'm struck by how through her very tone she conveys "This is my story, my experience that I am working through and this is what I am finding and I am doing the very best I can..." and that perhaps it is this ability she has that has made this space possible...

The phrase "being a mirror for other people's insecurities" really speaks to me. I am trying to examine this in my lived life when it happens, and learn from it. If I dislike someone, what is it about them that I dislike? Because surely that is something I need to look for in the mirror. So, yes, Moxie, I can imagine many people are very uncomfortable with your divorce and with looking there. And it's too bad that makes them unable to be there for you. You are wise to see this playing out, and to see it for what it is.

Keep us in the loop. We're here for you.

[Bobbi]

This is so, so true. And I was so unprepared for it.

When I left my first husband, it was beyond gut-wrenching. It was horrible and painful and my insides felt upside down and twisted. But I was completely unprepared to feel that all once again from the reactions from my family and friends. I'm not sure why - maybe my mind refused to go there until it was too late. And ours was a relatively painless divorce - no house, no kids, relatively little mutual "stuff" - but it was still horribly painful. I felt like I let the world down. Like I failed. And my parents and my sister were incapable of understanding, so I got reluctant support at best, at first. But I got through it, and they began to see, and it was the best thing I EVER did for myself. But it took a long time to get to that peace.

I wish you that peace too. As quickly as you can find it.

[Moxie]

Jan, that's a really good point, and one that Diane Vaughan touches on in the Uncoupling book. That there are all these points in the process of a relationship unraveling. And in some relationships, those are points that partners can use to pull themselves back together. But for couples that didn't have anything there to begin with (us) or aren't aware that it's happening, or are so angry that they truly don't want to stay together, those points are the fault lines that keep getting wider and wider.

If there had been anything to get back to, I'd have fought for that 'til I was bloody. And I admire couples who do pull themselves back from the brink, because it's got to be this same experience of losing what you thought you had to really become who you are.

[rudyinparis]

What tha? Sorry for the double post!

[pnuts mama]

i'm always honored by your trust in all of us to share this part of your journey...and i hope you let those people in your life take as good of care of you as you do of us-
love and light and strength and peace, moxie.

[mo]

A bit off topic but somewhat tangential in nature. Being a child of a divorced family I can honestly say the actual divorce itself wasn't what threw my life up in the air - it was more how my parents conducted themselves/handled the process and the years to follow that was so rough. It so sounds like Moxie that you are doing this in as positive a fashion as possible and that is what will ultimately make this large event okay for your kids (that and seeing you a happier person!)

Good luck with each day as you work through this - I know it has got to be rough and even rougher when you go to lean on friends and instead they let you fall.

[Sharon aka Mommie Mentor]

Moxie,

Thank you for sharing so much of yourself today. I am inspired, more than you know, by your honesty, and that’s the reason I’m posting.

As a child of divorce I can say that even though we were surprised by my parents divorce, when all is said and done I wouldn’t have it any other way.

If they’d stayed together I’d never have seen my parents filled with joy; they were angry and bitter towards each other.
If they’d stayed together I’d never have felt supported by either one of them because in our house the children got the brunt of the unexpressed anger and frustration that was flying around.
If they’d stayed together I’d never have seen them truly love or be loved and that would have sent us the wrong messages about love and partnership.

Moxie, you not only rescued yourself by fighting for the life you wanted, but you also released your kids from seeing and feeling your pain and unhappiness every day of their childhood.

And that brings me to a “sorry to hijack this post for a moment”.

A few weeks ago someone posted that I was coming off as “spiritual, heroic and bully for me if tough times lead to self-transcendence.” I never replied, but it kept coming up for me, and for me, that means I better look at it.
Rudyinparis said, this blog is “remarkably judgment free... or, when judgments are made, people here are able to back up and ask for clarification, or apologize, or offer clarification...” yesterday’s comments were wonderful and inspired me to say something.

As soon as I read the post about the way I was coming off, I set out to apologize if I was coming off as “spiritual”. Then I stopped and gave it a lot of thought. That person had no idea what a great gift she was giving me. She caused me to look at an area of my childhood that causes me to want to apologize right out of the gate. There’s that spiritual thing again. Now I can clearly say, I don’t believe I need to apologize, I am spiritual, it’s who I am and how I see life.

Rudyinparis nailed it, “being a mirror for other people’s insecurities”. If I offended that person, I do apologize for offending her, it certainly wasn’t my intention. I, just like everyone else am who I am. I write / teach what I believe based on my life’s experiences.

If my words cause anyone to look in the mirror, then the teacher in me isn’t sorry. I firmly believe that we’re all mirrors for each other. And that’s a good thing, a possibly painful thing, but ultimately a good thing.
And I believe that’s all Moxie has done for those reacting in her circle.
As far as the heroic thing, I had to laugh—can’t figure that one out at all!

Moxie thanks for all you say, and how you inspire so many to be honest with themselves and their lives. If leaving your marriage inspires some, great! And if leaving your marriage mirrors another’s fears or frustration then you given them a gift, a clear mirror for them to see their stuff.

[r+k+mama]

I'm so totally in awe of how openly, rationally, and truthfully you've shared this experience with this community. It could be you've had plenty of moments you haven't been proud of along this journey but with the grace, knowledge and commiseration you are passing on to others now, we would never know it. I came from (fairly) happily married parents and have a wonderful marriage but the experiences you've shared are invaluable to everyone because they are so HUMAN and we can all learn from and share in that.

[Kathy]

My husband got a divorce over 10 years ago. Hearing about other people's divorces still makes him sad and angry (and probably many more feelings I can't begin to understand), and they didn't have kids together. It's completely insensitive of me but I wonder if he'll ever get over it. I just don't want it to haunt him any more.

Not to be overly dramatic but I think divorce is a lot like death. Even if you absolutely hate the person you're divorcing, it's still a loss in your life and that takes time to heal. I think it's a defining moment in your life. Ultimately, everything and everyone is better off... getting over it is a long and crappy process and I'm not sure if anyone ever really gets over it. I think you learn about to live a new life and hopefully you will have learned a lot about yourself in the process.

Hang in there girl. Know that we are all pulling for you.

[Anna H.]

Ah, Moxie. Just stumbled upon your blog for the first time in years and saw your news.

Thank you for writing about all of this so openly -- what you've written (or the bits I've just read now -- will head back to the archives this weekend to find out more) resonate deeply for many of us: those who have divorced, those whose parents divorced and even those of us who came *this close* to divorce but somehow managed to create a wholly new life with their partner.

I'm one of the latter, but I think only because we had had ten strong and good years together before the marriage started to die. If there hadn't been such a history (and so much of it good), I'm pretty sure that neither of us would have explored the possibility of reconciliation much at all.

There was a year of separation for us -- not physical, because we simply couldn't afford it -- but a year when neither of us had any expectations about a future together and we focused solely on creating our own new lives as individuals. And it was sad to recognize that our marriage was dead and had been for a long while; but it was also an amazing and wonderful time, too. What a gift to be able to rethink and recreate our separate lives, as you are doing now, with the little bit of wisdom (and confidence, and gratitude) that we've all gleaned from *living*! It feels like a second chance at life for this old lady of 38.

There is loss in divorce, or a relationship dying. There is grief. And you're right -- the choice to part is so much harder than the choice to stay and fade a little bit more every day.

Again, thank you for talking about this. Thank you.

And best of luck to you and your boys as you continue to create the life you all need.

Take care.

[anonforthis]

My parents divorced over 20 years ago, and my mother is *still* bitter. Even worse, she tells me all the time how she thinks she is civil with my father. Um, no. So I hope you take every opportunity to make your situation as good as it can be.

@Stacy - people lie on facebook. All the time. I'm sure of it.

[Eva]

"People will tell you you're not a good mother because you're ripping apart your children's family."

I wish people wouldn't say these things.

It's not that divorce is wonderful, but I'm convinced that it's better to take a nuclear family apart than teach your children that they (or their spouse) should expect to be irreparably unhappy in adult relationships -- and that they don't deserve any better.

[ritchiegal]

thanks moxie. that was a nice reminder than unless you've lived through it, you don't have any idea what someone is going through. and even then, you might not.

i think part of the reason why people think divorce is the easy way is because we here so much about people (=celebrities) getting divorced after months or years together. we forget that they are not us, nor are they people we know. us earth dwellers operate by a different set of rules.

you're such a voice of sanity through it all.

[enu]

Wishing you peace, Moxie. I'm sorry it's so hard right now. I hope life gets easier soon and that you find small joys to keep you going until ut does.

[Amy]

So my question to this community is:

Is therapy the only/best way to get a marriage back on track? If so, how do you find the right therapist?

My mother's marriage to my father was utterly blown apart by what I consider "bad" therapy. (Not that it wouldn't have ended, but it might have ended more gently or not at all had this practitioner not overlooked some critical factors.)

I tried therapy once with my husband, and the therapist's recommendation was, "Buy a house and have a baby. There are no two things that will make you closer!" Ummm .... WHA'?! But we did it (not only because he told us to, but because they were the next logical step in the life we both imagined), and now look. Same problems, more at stake.

I think we both want to fix it, but I'm not sure the arrival of Eckhart Tolle's new book is going to do the job for us. (-:

[boofyq]

Leaving my first marriage was the hardest thing I ever did. We didn't have kids, so that made it easier in some respects. It was terrifying and nervewracking, and yet it was the best thing I ever did FOR MYSELF, at the time. I was able to stop, breathe, and eventually empty my mind of all the painful words and acts that had broken me down to almost nothing. And slowly, with time, family and friends' support, and a peaceful physical space that I created for myself to work from, I managed to find myself again. Then I started to love myself again, and with that was able to open my heart again.

Miraculously, that's when my darling new DH arrived in my life! And five years + 3 days after that divorce was final, I gave birth to our lovely twins!

It takes guts and grit to finally get to the point to acknowledge that you're in a life that doesn't fit you, and to extricate yourself. But it's the most satisfying thing to move across the spectrum and get to the other side. You'll know if and when the time is right.

[Amy]

Amen.

Moxie, I'm about 3 years out... email me if you need someone to talk to. Our circumstances are pretty similar in that I did the leaving... and I've been through everything you describe here.

[AmyinTexas]

Oh... too many Amys!!! Why don't I add "inTexas" to mine... so, Moxie,

email AmyinTexas if you want to talk.

(I'm the Amy who shared a margarita with hush last night!) ;)

[Joy]

@hedra- your statement "only to finally one day discover that it was the time BEFORE the divorce, the time when I felt both parents closing down emotionally, turning away from each other, themselves, and therefore unable to really even be open to us, that was the time that wounded me"- me too.
I thought it was awfully fatalistic when my father told me, on the day my husband-to-be and I arrived home to announce our engagement, that if it isn't working, don't wait around to end it. Looking back now I know he lived as a shadow of himself for a long time, in survival mode.

I was given a gift. During the time my parents were going through their divorce, I was on an exchange program and lived with a family in a foreign country who, after almost 30 years and four kids, had a loving marriage. They'd close their bedroom door and take a few minutes of alone time together every day. They flirted openly, and also bickered openly and the house was filled with vitality and passion. It was a revelation for me. I had lived what I thought was a pretty happy childhood, but a part of me always knew my parents weren't very happy, and being the oldest I took on the role of peacemaker and consoler in my family, and am still fraught with fear when faced with confrontation.

Sorry to ramble on, but I wanted to share my experience as a child of parents who, as you said Moxie, sucked it up and tried to make themselves okay with things, when they really shouldn't have. Thank you for your insightfulness, and bless you on your journey.

[Steph.]

I'm in a tough period right now after 16 years of marriage and I don't know yet which way this thing will go. I want to thank you, Moxie, for your honesty in writing about your struggles. And, your commenters have given so many interesting things to think about too...including good books to read! I feel like reading this blog and your experiences has given me such a realistic view of what the big D can be like, and I truly appreciate that.

[Aaron]

Anyone else have book suggestions on saving a marriage?

[ada]

Moxie I think you are a wonderful wonderful person. You have helped me tremendously. I wish you peace. And I just know that great love of your life, that forever husband, he's out there and you'll meet him. And all of you out there in a marriage that just isn't working.....I wish you peace as well. I have never "met" a more courageous, capable group of women. I'm proud to "know" you all.

[hedra]

@Amy, intereview them as if you were hiring them for a critical job, because you ARE. At least three or four should go under the magnifying glass before you choose. It may cost you something out of pocket to go through the interviews, but it is really important to do so, IMHO. Worth the cost.

I interviewed mine, started with a list of 10, got down to a list of four on phone interviews, then did a single start-up meeting with each. One told me I wasn't busted enough for her to be interested (that was an odd sort of compliment), another told me I was A.MA.ZING and she was awed and kowtowing to my wisdom on day one... Um. No. I can't remember what the third one said or did - maybe just not a good fit. Fourth one (and I was getting a little irritable by now thinking I'd have to start again with the list of the next 10!), listened well, smiled and nodded at the right times, and then told me that while I told good stories, she wasn't going to let that distract her from the work. YIKES! After a momentary flash of panic, I was thrilled - found her! She was great. Cut right through the cr*p, insightful, just nosy enough to keep me from getting comfortable, just demanding enough to keep me moving, just enthusiastic enough to help me feel successful. After we moved, I had to find a new one, and did a separate search using a family friend (in the field) to help filter down to my top 4 options, and after the first meeting with the first one, I just stopped looking - it was clearly a good fit from the start. And having had some experience with a good therapist, I had some clues about the 'subtle icky feeling that means I'm not actually getting useful pressure/direction'.

Just remember that they work for you, and if they aren't doing the job you need, let them go and try a different one. Also, keep in mind that for couples work, someone who works for you might not work for your partner, and vice versa. They have to work for both, which is a trick. (Me, I prefer to have someone who will make me uncomfortable, who will call bullsh*t on me, but who isn't mean about it. Other people find that too uncomfortable to deal with, it makes them shut down too far.)

[Abby]

Another child of divorce signing on to say the divorce did not destroy my life.

My situation was complicated by mental health issues (which really weren't discovered until way after the divorce, but were clearly at the heart of many of the issues) of my father's. We were one of the few divorced families that I knew at the time (obviously that changes significantly over the years) but it still was obviously the best choice, the healthiest choice, the safest choice for all of us.

Recently I was talking to my mom, who has since remarried the world's most excellent guy. We talked about how different our lives would be if she had stayed married to my father. And the biggest loss would have been her relationships with me and my brother and our families. She would have spent all her time covering for my father, enabling him, allowing his decline to dictate their lives, just as she had when we were younger.

The difference would have been that my brother and I would have cut out of their lives without a second thought. To protect ourselves and eventually our kids. So, instead of being my closest friend, instead of knowing all her grandkids inside and out, she would have been isolated with my father and my brother and I would have avoided them as much as possible.

To Moxie and everyone else going through this. Your children will not be destroyed by divorce, they won't. You are all obviously putting their needs right up at the top, being smart and careful about how you navigate this new path. I applaud you all for having courage and strenght and for being willing to look honestly at your lives and to make decisions that are best for all the individuals involved.

[Mamalooper]

I divorced in my early thirties and like many here, had all the comments from relatives and some friends about it being a selfish act. It was the most difficult thing that I had ever done and there luckily weren't any children involved.

It really brings out other people's insecurities and fears about their own lives and relationships. So many judgements too. My mother has an almost perverse pride in sticking it out with my dad. But perhaps that is what you hang on to for that generation of women who weren't necessarily well educated or able to support themselves.

Now remarried with a child and my only regrets are that I didn't divorce sooner and that I didn't meet my current husband sooner. I was pretty invested in being the "good girl" for a bit too long...

So, net net, it was the best decision that I made and one that I'd never advise anyone to take lightly. Turns your world upside down.

[Marian]

Just wanted to say having been through a divorce myself, this basically sums up how you will know if you are ready to make the decision: Staying will suddenly be the impossible thing, instead of the only thing you can imagine (as usual Moxie hit it right on the nail).

[electriclady]

@Amy, Michele Weiner-Davis (she of Divorce Busting) has an article on how to pick a marriage therapist: http://divorcebusting.com/a_choosing_marital_therapist.htm (her website is a good resource in general).
One thing that she and many others in her field say is that it can be hard to find therapists who are truly pro-marriage--that is, who won't just tell you, well, if you're both unhappy, get out. So one thing to do in the interview process is make clear that you both really want to make this relationship work and you need someone who will help you do that.

I haven't experienced divorce myself, but utterly agree with those who say it's not the easy way out. In fact, if your marriage is troubled, there IS no easy way. Staying and letting your soul slowly crumble is probably the path of least resistance, but I wouldn't call that "easy." Both choosing divorce and choosing to fight to make your marriage good again are incredibly difficult paths.

[anontoday]

Moxie, thanks for talking about your process....It's clear you have great inner strength and sense of self, despite the turmoil you're going through now. I feel like my marriage has been so bad, for so long, and that I'm so economically STUCK in it, that my sense of self is basically dissolved. I think I'm going to be one of those "why didn't my mother ever leave my father?" parents for my son to complain about one day. I wish it weren't the case, but I'm so sad and stuck that every exit ramp is blocked off with a concrete wall.

[MorahLaura]

electriclady said: One thing that she and many others in her field say is that it can be hard to find therapists who are truly pro-marriage--

Oh my this is so true. The first couples counsellor my husband and I found, who was touted as the guru of couples counselling in our area, actually suggested that my husband go out and have extramartial sex, since his needs weren't being met at home. As bad as things were, we still wanted to work on our marriage and we ditched that guy after 3 visits.

[Olerica]

Moxie,
Just want you to know I'm thinking of you.

And, my parents divorce didn't destroy us either. Their being together nearly did though. I was 20 when (finally) it happened and my relationship with each parent became stronger and more bonded than ever before the divorce. Your children will be fine.

You will be too. There are a lot of great adventures yet to come for you!

[hush]

Moxie, thank you for sharing of yourself, for being real, and vulnerable, and a strong, witty, wonderful woman. Amen to all who've said that "divorced" doesn't equal failure any more than "married" equals success. I know you'll find a forever husband who is everything you've wished for & more.

Like Sharon the Mommie Mentor, I've been given many gifts of honest feedback lately. Thank you all for keeping it real - especially my girl Amy in Texas. :) Like hedra, the best therapists & friends for me are those who are able to call me out on my bs! I was telling my friend IRL about how judgy I've been in pretty much all aspects of my life this year, and she reminded me that I'm an "INFJ" Meyers-Briggs type who needs to put a lot less emphasis on the "J" part! She also told me she thinks I'm a better talker than a writer. Please bear with me & know that I'm working on myself.

[Moxie]

Anontoday, I feel for you. I was in that place for a long time. Right before the pathway opened up for me (and I, too, felt trapped by lack of money, and still have no money, so it wasn't the money that changed), I realized that not only would my sons be ashamed of me for not leaving, but they'd also probably replicate the pattern they were marinating in and end up with women who didn't love or respect them. That's what broke my heart.

You'll find a way out when you just can't stay anymore.

For book resources, did any of you find "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix helpful? We did the exercises in it a few years ago, and I think it gave us much more insight into each other. If we had gotten together initially based on characteristics of our real selves, the things we learned from doing that process probably would have helped us get together again.

[eccentriclibertarian]

One more child of divorced parents chiming in. Like hedra, the emotional drama/withrawal etc of the pre-divorce time was bad for me. The divorce itself, not so much. In my parents' case, neither one was willing to do the work necessary to understand themselves, their needs, or their expectations - and so the subsequent failed marriages (2 more for my mom, 4! more for my dad) were actually the most traumatizing - my models for stable, adult relationships had to come from aunts, friend's parents, etc. I don't know you personally (aside from this blog, I mean) and I don't know your kids, so I will stop short of making predictions for your future.

But the fact that you are honest in your approach, and clearly willing - and are actually doing - the self-work that is so, so, important...this gives me confidence that things will turn out well for you and your children.

[AmyinTexas]

Moxie,

As my ex and I sat in a therapy session about the kids, struggling with what to do, I point blank asked the therapist if I should stay for the sake of the kids. Her response was something to the effect that growing up in a house without love and respect would do more damage than the divorce.

In the grand scheme of history, most children grew up in households comprised of step-parents and step or half-siblings. Only in the 20th century did the western nuclear family as we think of it become the norm. Yet, children have thrived. Yours and mine will too.

[anonforthis]

I hope this doesn't sound judgmental - because I don't mean it that way. I worry that it will, but I really don't mean it to be critical, this is just something I've been wondering.

Moxie, as you're on your journey, I'm wondering how you're able to let your babies know that they were conceived in love (something that always seemed very important to me in my own crazy family: my parents were nuts, but they wanted me very much and made me in love) while also talking about never having loved their dad. Or are you not talking to them about that part of it? I guess this just taps into my own anxiety about stuff.