Q&A/PQotW: Is it depression, or do things really just suck?

Anonymous writes:

"Maybe this falls more under the PQotW category... I've been dealing with massive thyroid problems since my daughter was two months old, which kicked me into severe depression and continues to be a problem although now it seems to be settling into a PMDD-like pattern. Fun. My relationship with my husband has deteriorated to the point that I am seriously contemplating divorce. I am very aware that my health problems are probably playing a role in this, but the issue is that some of the things he's doing I'm pretty sure would be pissing me off whether or not I had those problems. How does one distinguish between "I feel bad because I'm depressed" and "I feel bad because this relationship is bad for me and on top of that I'm depressed which is making it worse." I don't want to go into the details of the problem because I feel like that's not really the point, but the umbrella issue is a lack of respect, which I'm realizing is something he's modeling from his father and grandfather. Awesome.

Thanks so much, Moxie. I know this isn't really the type of question that has an actual answer, but you are my touchstone for rational behaviour in the face of "It sucks, doesn't it?" and just sending this to you is already making me feel like I can find an answer somehow."

Well, my test is always whether you're responding in a way that's appropriate to the situation. And it sounds like you're in the middle of a relationship that isn't going to improve the way you need it to. So, yes, it's appropriate for you to be depressed about that. The thyroid and PMDD stuff is just an overlayer that you can probably get on top of with meds/exercise/sunlight/Omega 3s/minerals/etc. But the underlying issue is the stress of the wrongness of the situation you're in.

The next question is whether that pain is going to motivate you to do something about it, or paralyze you so you can't do anything about it. Some of us use pain as a way to process and get to the point that we can act. Others get so squelched by emotional pain that they get stuck, and can't do anything to improve the situation until the pain is alleviated somehow.

To me, the trick is figuring out what your own process is, and working with that. If feeling crappy is part of your process to clarity and living the life you're meant to live, then live in the depression (controlling the physical aspects of it as much as you can) with the knowledge that it's a chrysalis, and is temporary. If feeling depressed is preventing you from thinking things through and making decisions, then do whatever you need to do to treat the depression (T-Tapp or pilates and Omega 3 supplements would be my first suggestions) so that you can get on top of your life.

Anyone else have any thoughts about the whole question? I realize that my response to this is totally informed by the depression I went through the year after my younger son was born, which I knew at the time was a processing kind of depression, not PPD or "regular" depression. I know you guys have a wide range of different experiences and can add other aspects I haven't thought of.

Comments

[Shannon]

I know this is a trite thing to say, but I could have written that letter. I had thyroid problems after my son was born, causing depression and exhaustion. They went away at 7 months post-partum, but the same symptoms came back at 11 months. At that point I went to the doctor, thinking the tyroid problems were back, but my thyroid test came back normal. So, by then it was full-on depression. I say PPD because it was within a year of giving birth, and also because I think cutting out feedings triggered it. Since then it's been a rollercoaster of meds, side effects, therapy, etc., etc., etc. I also notice that things are WAY worse before my period.

Anyway, I mention all that just to give some background and point out what I have in common with Anonymous. If I'm reading correctly, this is a chicken vs. egg issue of whether or not depression is causing marital problems or marital problems are causing depression. I think about this a LOT, although in my case it's not depression as related to my marriage, it's depression as related to my job. (Nobody here works with me, right?) But I think it's the same kind of question of whether you wonder if managing your depression will make something in your life (marriage, job, etc.) better, or if making something in your life better will help you manage depression.

Shoot, this is getting long, and it's gonna get longer. Because I guess there's no easy answer to this. It's fairly scientifically established that depression has a physical cause (and obviously it does in the case of thyroid problems). However, people with physiological predispositions toward depression are going to have depressive episodes that are triggered by lifestyle events. And you are just so vulnerable to getting completely stressed out by life events. As my friend who suffers from depression says, "If you're already that low-down, something's gonna get you."

But still, the question remains, will you be less depressed if you solve your real issues, or will your real issues become less stressful if you treat your depression? In my VERY HUMBLE opinion, I think it's a little of both. It is always good to try to get a handle on your mental and physical health. Go slowly. And be gentle to yourself. These problems do not go away overnight.

I think once you get to a point where you're feeling a little bit better, you will be in a position to see how you're reacting to your marriage and make decisions from there.

Anonymous, I would love it if you e-mailed me. sjcapannaATyahooDOTcom

[Maria Wood]

It's impossible to say from this vantage point whether your relationship is workable, and I am SO not an expert on relationships anyway. But depression can be situational: I'm in a crappy relationship so I'm depressed. AND it can be a cycle: My relationship isn't working right now, so I'm depressed, so my relationship is suffering, so I'm getting more depressed.

I think either way, you need a multi-pronged approach which will involve an honest and difficult conversation with your husband ('I'm depressed and our relationship isn't working. I don't know what the solutions are, but I'm trying this this and this, and I need to know what you're willing to do to help me and to make our relationship work') PLUS some outside help in figuring out the source of your depression and finding solutions, be they pharmaceutical (for your thyroid or antidepressants) or otherwise.

[Shandra]

Well. First I want to recommend the book "The Dance of Connection" by Harriet Lerner. It talks a lot about what to do about "bottom-line" issues - how to define them and when and how to communicate about them. Her "Dance of Intimacy" is also really good.

I find both helpful reads when I am sorting through that whole "is it me/my current state of mind, or is it us, or is it him?"

Having said that, I'm not honestly totally convinced that it matters in that... if he is not on the journey WITH you, if you cannot say to him "this is REALLY BREAKING me right now and I don't know if it's me or us or you but you need to FIGURE IT OUT with me," then that's an issue that is certainly not depression (provided your depression hasn't stopped you from saying that.)

I agree with the PP that addressing it is probably a multi-tracked process. Try to figure out what's up biochemically and address it. Try to eat right and exercise. AND deal with whatever specifically is up in your marriage.

I just had a similar moment myself this weekend; for years I've been trying to deal with and fighting about my husband's workaholism.

And as is my pattern I had become silent about it and stopped talking with him about it and stopped trying to address it. I was just in coping mode, and getting unhappy. Because it does make me unhappy. And he probably will never fix it entirely. But we have had times of middle ground that we had lost.

What I think will/might/I hope will save the situation is that it IS him that I ultimately go to about it. So I went. And he responded.

That's the healthy part, the last there. If that were not there I would be plotting my exit.

[Maria Wood]

Hehe, Shannon, great minds think alike ;-)

[wendy]

Could someone just help me define the terms:
PQotW?
PMDD?

And while we're at it:
DH (when referring to husbands or partners?)

Thanks.

[songbird]

PQotW: Philosophical Question of the Week
PMDD: no idea
DH: Dear husband

[caramama]

No matter which it is(depression or maritial problems), I highly recommend therapy as a place to start. My therapist for my PPD also specialized in couples therapy. I think someone like that can help you work through the issues to see which is which and hopefully help you to find the other prongs in a multi-pronged approach.

@wendy -
PQotW = Philosophical Question of the Week (something Moxie does to get us all thinking about someone's problem)
PMDD = Premenstrual Dysphoric Disorder
DH = Dear/Darling Husband (internet term for husband. Also DW = Dear Wife; DP = Dear Partner; DS = Dear Son; DD = Dear Daughter; etc.)

[Shannon]

PMDD is premenstrual dysphoric disorder, which is like PMS on acid.

[shans281]

My experience (with the big caveat that all relationships, people, ways of dealing with depression etc. are different):

I've dealt with major depression all my life, and have had chronic thyroid problems both before and after pregnancy, and for me both/either of those can completely color how I feel about and deal with the rest of my life (work, relationship etc.) Dealing with your depression and thyroid problems certainly won't make any long-standing relationship issues disappear, but it could definitely change your approach to them. When I'm depressed, relationship issues seem huge and irreconcilable; the same issues are still there when I'm not depressed, but I'm much more likely to want to work through them and figure them out (then again, for other situations in the past, it's taken lifting the veil of depression to make me realize that I really did need to get out of the situation and that it wasn't ultimately workable). I will also say that earlier this year when I had a MAJOR post-partum thyroid crash, I was an absolute b*tch and was extremely irritable about everything, especially my relationship (a fact that my sweetie kindly waited to point out until I was feeling better, haha); not sure if you're dealing with any anger/irritability issues too, but if so be aware that they might be another (less talked about) side effect of low thyroid.

Sorry if this isn't totally coherent (ah, lack of sleep), and that it's not ultimately very helpful…there are unfortunately no clear answers when it comes to this stuff, but I wish you the very best in trying to untangle it all.

[hedra]

My general opinion is to follow the multi-pronged thing, but lean first on the PPD/PPMD treatment. Because typically I lean towards 'work on me first, then when my feet are under me, work on me+whatever'. I just work so much better with my vision clear and ANY ability to get my teeth into the problem and fight for it.

Depression for me eviscerates my ability to make effort, strive, focus, pick up details, and integrate ideas. All those are useful (for me) when I need to work on something else.

I've been there with the jobdepression equation, which is setting off which? But it eventually became clear that a) job was sucking my soul out my eyeballs daily, and b) I also had PPD. Handling the PPD was one separate track which I attended to for my own sake. Having done so (at least that round), I was able to think more coherently about the job, and discovered that there were some thoughts, needs, trends, issues, etc., that I had never really tackled, and I began slowly working on those, and ended up getting laid off (woo!) while I was inching my way through all those knotholes.

I still have some of those knotholes left, unfortunately. I kind of dropped that ball again when the PPD resurged, and then dropped it again when I got employed again, and am now having to finish off those personal/psychological tasks, now. Dang.

So, I guess I'd say two-path, as much as two-prong. That is, handle the PPD/PMDD for you, now, because you deserve to be functioning as well as possible, and know that functioning well will bleed over into how you manage the issues with your DH, and that may make it easier to address them. Just don't drop them 'because I feel better' because the depression may return, and if it does, you will not want to be standing right here again wondering why the situation still sucks.

It's kind of like weaning, in a way - during a fussy stage, the nursing drives me BATTY. But trying to wean in the middle of one just makes everyone crazy. Work the way through to where things are systemically functioning better, and then remembering the fussy stage, determine if one will now end the nursing relationship, or put in effort WHILE THINGS ARE THE MOST FUNCTIONAL to make the next downcycle easier to bear. Yes, one can just grit teeth and hunker and get through it, but I found especially in the 18 month and up stages that setting the stage for nursing manners/limits/etc. well before the next stage his made it sooooo much easier to cope during the next stage.

I'm not sure if that's really a 1-to-1 thing, there, but that's the best I can do right now... Best of luck with both issues. Respect issues suck rocks.

[Amy]

what do you mean by, "a processing kind of depression, not PPD or 'regular' depression" ?

[TodayWendy]

I had sort of the opposite experience from Moxie, was in a horrible depression which was straining the relationship, went on a business trip for a week, came back feeling much better and realized that the relationship was the cause of much of the depression. Actually being depressed had prevented me from doing anything proactive about the relationship. Getting away from it all for a bit helped boost me into an undepressed state for just long enough to figure out what the problem was. And me being gone for a week helped him figure out where the problem was too. I don't know how well this would work with a baby in tow, but if meds and/or spending some money on babysitting/meals out/short vacation can snap you out of the depression for a bit, it might just help you figure things out.

[michelle]

I too had thyroid issues after I had my kid. It took me about 5 months to figure out what was wrong. i thought i had PPD and my doctor said i think you might have a thyriod issue because your gioter is large. turns out that was it. once i looked up the sympotms i realized that almost everything that was wrong was a side effect of too little thyriod. I was living in a fog. it took a while to get it regulated and to feel like my old self. and yes, some of issues in my marriage and my reactions were the result of my condidtion.

So my two cents, get the thyriod under control and then see how you feel. See a counselor to talk and help process it all. And sleep whenever the baby is asleep, eat healthy, get out of the house and have some girl time too.

[Moxie]

@Amy, it didn't feel at all like regular depression (which I've had) or the way PPD is described. It felt like I was hiding out, like something was running in the background kind of, like I knew I had to maintain but felt like I was living the wrong life somehow.

If that made any sense.

[Tzipporah]

Yet another "my experience", FWIW:

I had extreme PPD from about week 2 after my son's birth, which wasn't helped by a husband going through severe, undiagnosed fibromyalgia at the same time. We were both exhausted and cranky, but I was the one staying awake all night to care for a colicky baby, and HE was the one falling asleep in his food and complaining of being tired. It sucked - for us individually and for the relationship. I'm pretty sure the word "divorce" was hanging heavily over our house for a while, with everyone afraid to look up and see it.

It was made worse by being a child of an alcoholic, which gave me slightly wacked out coping mechanisms. So it sucked, we didn't know why everything was sucking so badly, and we didn't know how to fix it.

What helped:
1. Getting on antidepressants
2. Getting a reality check with a therapist on whether my anger at my husband was justified and/or useful
3. Getting him a medical diagnosis (NB: this took a year and a half, during which it really helped that he was getting psych counseling as well, since we both kept wondering if it was all in his head)
4. Time - once baby started sleeping more (ok, so it was 16-17 months) I became myself again. Boy, we missed me a lot until then.

And now, things aren't perfect, but they're pretty damned great.

For you, this is probably:
1. Medical diagnosis/treatment
2. Psych counseling
3. Couples counseling (to make sure he isn't just an a$$hole)
4. Time, again. Baby and all that goes with it gets easier with time.

[Anon for this]

I've had thyroid and depression issues for all of my adult life, and struggled with them post-partum. They are just hard.

My suggestion is to start working on healing yourself first. Thyroid problems, either hyper- or hypothyroidism, can cloud judgment, and precipitate depression (and I too, had the symptoms get worse following my monthly cycle). Take control of what you can and start working for yourself and your child. And don't make huge decisions while you're digging yourself out. You'll know when you start feeling better, and you'll know when the right time to deal with those issues arrives.

[Julie]

My only advice is to start with yourself, then work outward. Get your body chemicals somewhat under control (as much as you can) before looking at making any changes in your (and your child's) life. That way you can do so from a clear-headed, rational position and not ever have the inclination to look back and wonder. And I hate to say it because it's ugly and worst-case scenario, but try to protect yourself as far as confidentiality in regards to being treated for depression, possibly make sure it's documented that it's related to your thyroid condition....the last thing you need down the road is documentation of any mental reasons why you should not be with your children. Talk to an attorney once you get your head clear. Good luck.

[Simone]

So sorry to hear you're going through this. I've witnessed a similar situation among friends, and it really does suck. I, for one, am also a highly emotional person so for me, I find that my state of mind GREATLY affects how I process any situation. In other words, when I've thought I've had a touch of PPD, or am PMSing, my perspective is very different from those endorphine-rushed days. So I guess what I'm saying is like others have suggested, perhaps address your physical/mential needs first, to really help you get a lay of the land relationship-wise. Best of luck to you...

[ladyjane]

Thank you for this post! I'm not really in a position to give advice but I wholeheartedly agree that it would be useful to set yourself up on a path to get physically and mentally better and once you've made it a safe distance from the "bad place", you can look at your relationship and figure out whether things were skewed by the shit-tinted glasses of depression or if your relationship really does, well- suck.
The idea of separating depression from just regular hard times is really resonating for me. As the mother of a colicky and fussy baby I couldn't figure out whether I was so ungodly ANGRY because I had PPD or because having a baby that cries so much just sucks. I didn't want to go in, get the diagnosis, experiment with drugs and therapy (esp since we may want to adopt in the future) only to really feel better when the crying got better. 8 months later and the crying/extreme fussiness finally stopped and I do feel better, so now I'll wait to see if the anger comes back and then I'll know.
To those of you with thyroid problems- is there a good place to find info on symptoms? From what's described, it sounds a lot like what I deal with, but I'm thinking I couldn't have made it nearly 28 years without it being tested...

[Shannon]

@ladyjane, you can have postpartum thyroid problems even if you've never had thyroid problems before. That's what happened to me.

[Sharon aka Mommie Mentor]

I’ve been seriously depressed 2 times in my life and I could never find answers to *my* issues in the depressed state. I needed to find a way to lift the depression so I could see the issues more clearly. Everyone’s suggestions are echoing the same thing; take care of you first!

I heard something in your question that hasn’t been addressed, or hadn’t been addressed before I finally got around to writing this. I gleaned that you wanted to know if the thyroid and PMDD is causing you to feel this way about DH or are you seeing DH’s response to your depression for what it really is.
I don’t know if the next part of my comment is what’s really going on, so forgive me if it’s off base and for being so direct, but you sounded like you were looking for ideas of how others see this.

You said “but the umbrella issue is a lack of respect, which I'm realizing is something he’s modeling from his father and grandfather.”

Unless I missed something, your DH isn’t depressed and doesn’t have a current health issue, is that correct? If he isn’t depressed or sick then, when you’re ready, you may want to investigate the “lack of respect” aspect of your marriage. Either use a therapist or do this on your own, however you do it.

Your DH’s response to your depression is his truth.
You said you realize that his behavior stems from his father and grandfather—is the way he’s responding to you okay with you? Is his help supportive or hurtful to you?
His response may be saying one of two things.

His response to your depression, i.e. lack of respect, may be his cry for help.
His response could be saying, this is too much for me—I have no idea how to help you. So if I behave the way my father modeled for me and his father modeled for him, then maybe you’ll snap out of it?
And we all know you don’t just snap out of depression—it’s a process!
Or is his response, i.e. lack of respect revealing the true way he deals with feelings of this magnitude? You know your marriage best, what is your gut instinct?

Is your DH the kind of guy who if told, that his behavior wasn’t helping you, he’d understand and be open to making a change? If he’s open to changing, then this was just his response to not knowing how to help you.
Or is he the kind of guy who won’t change? If he isn’t open to change, then the difficult times have caused him to show you a side of who he truly is.

Tough times can be one of the greatest motivator there is. Tough times unconsciously cause people to speak volumes about themselves. They are also when people show what they are made of, or not made of.

That is difficult work to do and is best done with a clear head, so there are no regrets. I hope you feel better and some of this helps.

[anonymousfornow]

This is so timely for me. I'm currently on antidepressants for anxiety and clinical depression, but I'm hitting a patch where I'm really struggling. There are situational and internal shifts going on to explain it, though. So I'm also trying to figure out if this is a processing kind of depression (to use Moxie's words) or an extension of my brain chemistry issues. My fear is that increasing or switching my meds will numb me to the point where I'm not sad but short-circuit my process of working through to clarity and the answers that are right for me.

No answers here (at least not yet), but lots of hugs, commiseration, and *you are not alone*s.

[Shannon]

@anonymousfornow, my rule is that the highest dosage of antidepressants I should be on is the dosage that gets me to a point where I feel able to solve my own problems. Like you, I didn't want to be on a happy pill to make me numb to my feelings; in fact, I'm sure most doctors don't want that, either. I want to be on a dosage where if my reactions to real-life situations are inappropriate (e.g., I'm standing in the middle of Disneyland and crying), I am willing and able to pull myself out of it. Of course, achieving that perfect balance is easier said than done, and I have as many questions as you about what my appropriate dosage actually is.

[Alex]

@ladyjane, thyroids can function fine and can (and do, reasonably frequently) fail over time, not always in a linear fashion. Women, in particular, are prone to auto-immune thyroid disease, where the body starts attacking its own thyroid gland; this can initially cause over-active thyroid (hyperthyroidism) as the thyroid jumps up its activity in response to attack, and then over time (as the gland succumbs to the attack), an under-active thyroid (hypothyroidism). When the process is just starting, it's possible to bounce back and forth between the two conditions and to go through times of normal thyroid function as well.

To get more info., I'd suggest starting at this very helpful site: http://thyroid.about.com/cs/basics_starthere/a/thyroid101.htm. Note the links to lists of symptoms.

Another thing to check is whether you've recently had a TSH test done (simple bloodwork, should be done at least occasionally as part of a physical); if so, get the numeric result (not just an assurance that it was "normal") and make sure that the result is between 0.3 and 3.0 (many doctors aren't aware that in 2003 the upper limit of this range was lowered to 3.0 from 5.5 which is why you need to get the actual number).

[hush]

Yes, put your own oxygen mask on first before attempting to assist the other passengers. It's shocking that thyroid checks aren't the standard of well-woman care. You may have to pound the table to get tested, but it is so important to do.

There is so much we do not understand about the human psyche. I've got nothing on causes & contributors of depression, but Shannon's take on where to go from here sounds right: "I think once you get to a point where you're feeling a little bit better, you will be in a position to see how you're reacting to your marriage and make decisions from there."

For future reference, when you're ready to start considering the "Is this marriage bad for me?" bit ... in situations like these I've found it helpful to use a knee-jerk, yes or no test to see where my heart & mind really are with things.

If you had it to do over, would you marry him again?

I asked myself that question a few months ago when I was considering leaving my hubby. My answer was yes. And it still is 5 months later, fortunately. Nobody gets married thinking it will lead to such unhappiness. I thought about the way we were before everything went to pot, and how great it was before we had the baby, and realized that we are exactly the same people, but the responsibilities of taking care of our new baby were just too much, and our expectations of what a "good marriage" post-baby would look like were just not in line with reality.

What's changed since you decided he was Mr. Right? What do you wish he would say to you right now? Was there ever a time when you felt respected in the relationship? Where is your gut on this - is there a good husband hiding in there somewhere or are you being abused?

No easy answers here. You have my best wishes & hugs.

[jessica star]

I'm coming to this post late in the day, and have an infant to put to bed, so I haven't had a chance to read everyone's responses. But I will say that I've had PPD and I've quit smoking and the depression is oddly similar. When I quit smoking I lost touch with reality for about a month. Because I'd given up a buffer between me and my emotions, I was suddenly feeling them tenfold. It didn't make them any less legitimate, but it did make me feel like "Things Must Change Now!" I couldn't handle the bad relationship I was in, so I left. It was a decision I made while in the midst of insane depression, but it was a GREAT decision. The depression didn't go away because of it, but it did clear the way for me to take care of myself and get better.

Fast forward to having a baby several years later, developing PPD, and being in a good relationship. My reaction to those things in my life that weren't working was the same, but my relationship was a good thing in my life, so I didn't feel the need to get out of it. (There were bad moments, believe me, but nothing like seriously wanting to leave or make the other person leave.) There is a child involved, which makes it different. But I've always felt that just because a person is depressed doesn't mean they've lost their inner wisdom.

I really hope this makes sense. Because the baby just started crying and suddenly I can't think.

My heart goes out to Anonymous...

[anontoday]

everyone's talking about antidepressants- does anyone have a particular one to try or to avoid? My doc has suggested celexa, not because she thinks I have major depression but because with my complicated life situation and the related unhappiness we both think I need any help I can get dealing. Have read some scary things about celexa but they all look scary to me.

[Anon]

I want to second what Moxie says, especially about figuring out what your process is and working with that. I spent far too long in bad therapy (as opposed to good therapy, both of which are defined by how well they are actually working for you) and taking meds that elevated my mood a bit, but mostly functioned to help me shove things under the carpet. Sometimes feeling depressed is the most sane thing you can do. Honoring that feeling is a way of connecting with yourself, respecting yourself, and is key to getting yourself into a better place. I realize it doesn't work like this for all the people all the time, *but,* if this is the way it works for you, it's crucial to honor it.

For me, working with a therapist who occasionally brought up meds but respected my choice not to/my instinct that meds would dull my sense of what was really happening was crucial, as was reading Thomas Moore's _Care of the Soul_. Elio Frattaroli's _Healing the Soul in the Age of the Brain_ is also a useful book on dealing with depression this way.

Of course, continue to treat your thyroid and do constructive things to make yourself feel better. But don't shy from feeling things if you think they're worth exploring. Keep in mind that you can always reevaluate and try out different therapies/life decisions.

[Anon]

I want to second what Moxie says, especially about figuring out what your process is and working with that. I spent far too long in bad therapy (as opposed to good therapy, both of which are defined by how well they are actually working for you) and taking meds that elevated my mood a bit, but mostly functioned to help me shove things under the carpet. Sometimes feeling depressed is the most sane thing you can do. Honoring that feeling is a way of connecting with yourself, respecting yourself, and is key to getting yourself into a better place. I realize it doesn't work like this for all the people all the time, *but,* if this is the way it works for you, it's crucial to honor it.

For me, working with a therapist who occasionally brought up meds but respected my choice not to/my instinct that meds would dull my sense of what was really happening was crucial, as was reading Thomas Moore's _Care of the Soul_. Elio Frattaroli's _Healing the Soul in the Age of the Brain_ is also a useful book on dealing with depression this way.

Of course, continue to treat your thyroid and do constructive things to make yourself feel better. But don't shy from feeling things if you think they're worth exploring. Keep in mind that you can always reevaluate and try out different therapies/life decisions.

[hedra]

@anontoday, most of the moms I know personally who like their antidepressant are on Zoloft. Not all, but most (some like wellbutrin, don't know anyone on the one you mentioned).

However, I have so far managed the PPD without prescription meds, using some of Moxie's plan, plus herbal/supplement mild mood/attention/focus elevators. It's worth talking to your doctor about trying a program of these, pros and cons, as an interim trial. If they work, yay, if not, then you have at least given yourself a step-up toward the process of selecting a prescription med. For me, it is fish oil (concentrated form, costco brand, just during the first half of my cycle as I have low platelet count and tend to bleed BAD if I've taken it near my period), plus Co-Q10 (1 daily, helps my general thinking function), plus siberian ginseng (2, helps my energy and mood), plus korean ginseng (2, helps my focus and motivation, plus reduces the amount I obsess or get 'stuck' in a process - kind of makes the ruts less deep so I can shift from one track to another more smoothly, and I seem better able to prioritize when I've been taking them steadily for a week or so). Dosing schedule and amounts should be talked out with your doc (or at least presented and approved), and I've found that while they help almost immediately (next day at the latest so far), the overall effect takes about 1-2 weeks to really accumulate. Oh, and vitamin D for mental function - for some reason that makes a difference, too, just takes a little of the fuzzy off. And Sam-E periodically if I have a major mood dip (but use caution if you have ANY bipolar tendencies, as it makes mania much worse).

Now, the total cost of all those together is likely more than I'd spend on a prescription med, but I have had zero side effects with anything but the SAM-e, and that was useful - clarified that I have just a little manic tendency that doesn't usually show much - but boy, on the SAM-e, wow. I haven't tried St. John's Wort, but so far nobody in my family who has tried it has had any impact from it, so I'm on ignore for that one for now. On the other hand, several people in my family use the two ginsengs, and my mom said that her brain goes on vacation by 2 pm, and her motivation with it, without the ginseng - she's been using that (and several others) with doctor oversight for thirty years... starting, oh, right around 45 (I'm 42).

Anyway, that's another direction to explore if you are genuinely terrified of the side effects issue. Put a timeline on the trial period, so you and your doctor both know that this isn't just a way of putting off dealing with the idea of prescription meds FOREVER. And then stick the trial period firmly - have someone else help you remember to take them, for example, because I find that the lower my mood, the harder time I have remembering to take my supplements! If a protocol like that is a) too expensive, or b) doesn't work, then you have another answer that helps move you forward.

[enu]

@sharon "Tough times can be one of the greatest motivator there is. Tough times unconsciously cause people to speak volumes about themselves. They are also when people show what they are made of, or not made of. "

Well, I think tough times just plain s*ck, but I am neither spiritual nor heroic ;-) I think for many people you just have to ride them out, not become some sort of saint. A lot of life is spent swimming underwater, lungs about to burst, reaching for that far wall.

Bully for you if tough time lead to self-transcendence - for me they seem to lead to exhaustion.

[Sherry]

I second all that Shannon has said. I'm on Wellbutrin. It works for me. I know Moxie doesn't want us promoting meds here, and I'm not. I'm just saying. And maybe I wouldn't have any problems with depression if my husband weren't chronically depressed and income-less, but I don't know that.

[ACJ]

@anontoday - I'm on celexa, and it has seemed to help me, without any bad side effects (and perhaps making weight loss a little easier than others? not sure about the correspondence but it hasn't made me gain more weight). More for anxiety and fibromyalgia symptoms than depression (whatever depression I have seems more situational). When I was long-term nursing I took something else - I think? Wellbutrin - because it had a lower transfer-to-milk rate, I think.

This is a debate - which came first? - that has been going on and on in my head for a long long time. I am so there with you, Anonymous. But when I do hush's knee-jerk test, my answer is no. I would not do it again knowing what I know today, except for of course the fact that my daughter came from this, and of course this is maybe the crucible I had to go through to strengthen myself. And I have known this for awhile secretly and am just coming to terms with letting it seep up to the surface. And that scares the hell out of me.

Moxie, I was wondering if you might do a post on thinking about divorce/separation resources - like, where do we find info about the next steps in this process? What do I need to know next so that I can make sure my (and my daughter's) bases are covered? What (online or books or whatever) has helped you and continues to help you on this journey? I know it's coming up a lot lately and isn't the main focus of the site, but I think it might be helpful for me and maybe others who've been following along.

[ACJ]

Oh also - my mom has had lots of thyroid issues (not postpartum that we know of, diagnosed during perimenopause, but she'd probably been suffering undiagnosed for a long time) and the standard (synthetic) thyroid hormones didn't help her, not one bit. She had to use natural (Armour?) thyroid to get better. Once she started taking natural thyroid, her memory got better, she stopped falling asleep all the time, falling down and bumping into stuff and generally hurting herself, her skin gained color again, and her hair actually changed texture and got less gray. And those are just the symptoms observable to me....... She also has found a lot of help from the people on the yahoo groups thyroid email lists... and more support from doctors who are interested in complementary therapies than from conventional doctors. Also, I've started insisting that doctors check my thyroid numbers as part of my yearly workup - my numbers are on the low end of the "normal" spectrum, like my mom's used to be, and if they start going lower then I might be able to catch it sooner than my mom did. I have a totally unsubstantiated theory that my fibro/muscle pain problems, my sister's similar kinds of problems, and my mom's thyroid all have some kind of link in common.

[hedra]

@ACJ, any double-jointedness? thyroid, fibro/muscle pain both happen a lot with people with collagen disorders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous here, thank you all SO much for your words of wisdom and support. I am definitely trying to heal myself first, but it just seems like there are so many different things going wrong with my health that I can hardly figure out where to start. I would grab my oxygen mask if I could just find the effing thing, you know?

I don't have time to respond to all the helpful things people have said, but I definitely appreciate them. And good luck to everyone else who is struggling through similar problems!

[Timi]

Just want to post to say that my thyroid did the same thing to me, and your analogy about not being able to find the oxygen mask is exactly how I feel when my thyroid is out of whack. Especially when you can't really figure out how to get it back into whack. I think it can be the little things that make a difference, like making sure to take the medicine in the morning about a half hour before eating anything (I know the doctor tells you to do this but I also know that it doesn't always happen). Something about doing that really helped with the symptoms, not just my test results. Also, exercising helped break the thyroid fog for me. And the thing that had sent me over the edge as well was my birth control pills that I was taking at the time. The cocktail of the pills and the low thyroid really put me in dangerous territory with depression. I know none of these things are quick fixes but I am just trying to throw out as many things that helped me as possible so that maybe you can find your oxygen mask.

[ugg store]

Thanks for the sharing of those article! That will be helpful.

[angela]

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