Q&A: Playground "rules" from other parents

Molly writes:

"What's the right way to handle playground "rules" set by other people?  Sometimes when we're at the playground some other parent will say to their kid "no swinging on your stomach" or "no going down the slide backwards" or "no shouting" or "no jumping in puddles" or some other perplexing rule that I never thought of, and then their kids (no dummies) say "But he's doing it!"--meaning mine.

I totally, totally get how this makes their life difficult but 1) I don't get the rule itself, I never thought of it, and I don't see why it matters and 2) I don't really want to mess with my kid's head by saying, Oh OK, this random adult made a new rule, let's follow it.  (I'm not letting him throw dirt or woodchips, I'm not letting him mow down other kids, I'm not letting him hog all the pails & spades or anything that would CLEARLY be rude/dangerous, at least to me. )

What's the social contract say on this?  I missed that chapter.  Can we have separate playgrounds for the intense parents and us lazy parents?"

You know, I think one of the big challenges of parenting is establishing your own policies and sticking to them in the midst of social pressure from other parents (and society at large). Parents of older kids can probably confirm that this gets more and more difficult as the kids get older. Violent video games, violent movies, Bratz, hoochie clothes for tweener girls--it seems like there are a lot of things that we're going to have to work hard to maintain a stance against.

So think of this time of dealing with other people's rules on the playground as little baby steps of preparation for telling your child that, no, she can't go to Cancun alone with her friends for spring break because they're only 14.

The parents I know have always operated under the assumption that you can make whatever rules you want for your own kids, but you can't make rules for other people's kids (assuming the other kids aren't hurting yours), and that enforcing your rules is your own business. Add you can't resent other people for having their own rules.

So that means that you have a perfect right to bring grapes as a snack for your kids, but you can't get angry at another mom for bringing Oreos. You can let your kid run around with shoes off at the playground, and even if I think it's stupid of you, I can't resent you for doing it, even if it causes me extra trouble to keep my kids in their shoes*. I can casually mention the recent cases of kids who've had their feet burned by the asphalt on the playground, but only to help you out, not to tell you you have to parent the way I do.

And, the other responsibility is being able to explain to your kids that "they do things their way and we do things our way" without saying or implying the words "irresponsible," "lazy," "helicopter," "controlling," or "dumbass."

So, basically, you make the policies for your kids, and other people make the ones for theirs, and you don't have to go by theirs and they don't have to go by yours. The stuff you're dealing with now at the playground is small potatoes compared to the stuff that'll come up later, so use this time as practice for helping your kids separate your family from what "everyone else" is doing and making that process explicit. That way later on they'll be less tempted to jump off the bridge when their friends are.

* A tip for that is to get water shoes and call them the "special playground shoes" and hype them as a cool thing they get to wear instead of that they have to wear. This won't work forever, but it will buy you a summer or three.

Comments

[m]

@Cate, I too really have problems with forces intimacy between young children. I don't understand it and I refuse to make my child hug or kiss someone he doesn't want to, including grandparents. I think as adults we should respect a child's boundaries just as we'd expect other adults to respect ours. In those situations, I watch my son. If he wants to accept the kiss or hug, then great. If not, if he turns away or retreats in anyway, I say to him, "it's okay, you don't have to hug or kiss if you don't want to" and I've never had anyone else (parents, kids, grandparents) make an issue of it. I know that I don't kiss or hug many of my friends good-bye, so why should my child?

Anyway...back to the playground!

[JB]

@michelle, I have the same attitude with my daughter perhaps not getting a turn at something sometimes. She has a ton of time on the playground (on the computer, whatever) and if some other kid is hogging it even after being asked politely... well, there's value in learning how to ask politely and in learning how to handle being refused. If it happened every time, or if this were, lifetime, the ONLY moment she was ever going to get on a tire swing, I'd probably react differently, but it ain't. It's just not that high-stakes.

[BabyBrady]

Ok, I am so thankful for all of these tips. My guy is only 14 months but at 34 pounds he is a bruiser on the playground. I am always trying to help him toddle around and feel like he is playing.

I do have a question. I often hear "helicopter" parent, but what does it mean? I feel lilke I must helicopter my guy in fear he is going to use his forehead to stop a fall. Is that wrong?

[z]

Oh I love the "taking turns idea. My little one is just shy of 2 and I am constantly saying to him to share with his friends- knowing that he doesn't understand the concept but also aware that he needs to eventually learn it. Will start the "taking turns" idea.

Also, I agree with JAC and others who hate the casual comment. I TOO HATE it. I think it comes under the same umbrella of your family your rules and our family our rules.

Now on another note my husband accuses me that I jump in too quickly sometimes when my kid is running after the same toy that another kid is playing with. I usually try to get him away from the area of the toy before he goes and grabs it. He says that sometimes that is off-putting to parents b/c i am sending the message that i don't think it is okay for my kid to be playing with them.. when I am usually just trying to avoid the conflict of toy sharing since he doesn't know what that is.

Now mind you I only do that with kids we don't know.. with little kids he does know and play with i let the kids negotiate the toy sharing on their own and as long as no one is crying me and the other parents don't intervene.

The reasoning being that I have gotten enough rude remarks to already last me a lifetime and so for now I would much rather avoid the whole sharing toys conversation with new people. I figure in a year when he's older and understands more we can tackle strangers then... Too much of a cop-out?

[Charisse]

I am also in the "talking about how everybody has their own rules" camp. (I, for example, let Mouse take off her shoes whenever she wants, though maybe that's a bigger deal outside of extremely temperate San Francisco.) :) I'm also in the playground non-intervention camp, unless there's an urgent safety issue or a big imbalance. I've kind of adapted my "when to intervene" aside from that from a rule I used to have as a manager:

-you are allowed to fight up one level or down one level, but if the fight has a greater imbalance than that, you need to call me in. (I.e. if you're a manager you can speak pretty freely and handle yourself with a director, but if a VP's on your case, you need to call for help.)

So on the playground, Mouse now being 4, it's one year each way--with 3-5 year olds, unless something looks real egregious, I let her manage it herself. Maybe even a 6 since she's friends with several and is fairly big and articulate. But if a kid who looks 7 or 8 is bugging her or if she's doing 4-yo-appropriate things at/with a 2-yo, then I'm all over it.

Oh, and I also believe in following the posted rules, though it is perfectly OK to grouse about them.

[Charisse]

@BabyBrady, "helicopter parent" does not apply to the amount of attention required to keep a very active new walker from needing stitches in his head. Might apply to spending the same amount of attention protecting a 4-year-old from a potential skinned knee or hurt feelings...definitely applies to micromanaging your kid's homework load in college. :)

[Cloud]

@BabyBrady- I've always heard helicopter parent for parents swooping (or "helicoptering") in to try to fix problems for much older kids- like kids in college who get a failing grade. For what it is worth, I think it is perfectly appropriate to shadow your 14 month old on playground equipment. I still shadow my 16 month old. She doesn't understand how dangerous it would be to fall from the heights she'll climb to, and I don't think this is a lesson she needs to learn the hard way.

I'm finding the discussion today interesting, but don't have much to add. The playground we go to the most is almost always empty and even when we go to a more crowded playground I've never run into the rules conflict the original poster mentioned. Or maybe I'm just bing clueless and missing it!

[mo]

This has been an interesting dialogue today. I was thinking more as I read through the rest of the comments... I thought of my weekend trip to the area train museum. There is a litte train table and kids can bring their own Brio type trains to play on it. Size is actually more fit for 1-3 kids but on weekends it gets really crowded. We visited for the first time on a weekend (typically go weekdays when less crowded) and were a bit blindsided by the crowd and how it all worked out. I have two 3 yr olds - they are pretty mild natured with others and started to drive their trains. There were kids of all ages, surprisingly it was one of the older girl children (maybe 8ish) who was the biggest bully and kind of pushing the kids around. One boy had his eye on one of my son's trains and kept trying to take it from him. I was guiding him to say no, that's mine. Boy kept coming at him... I kept wondering where the parents were. It wound up being a great exercise and me trying to stay out and not get into the middle of it all. I would just keep guiding my boys what to say and encourage them to go back into the chaos. Kids found a way to work with each other, even if it was just my guy continually trying to avoid the grabby boy and standing back some of the time. It was definitely stressful for me and out of my comfort zone but after we left I realized it was actually a learning experience for me to.

[z]

~Charisse,
I love the one-up and one-down approach. I will definitely try to remember that for when panda gets older.

[strugi]

@Mo, I was about to post about a similar situation...we frequent a bookstore with a train set on weekends. My 18 month old love it. When he is alone I let him play however he wants, but when there are other kids there I only let him have one train so that all of the kids can play. Usually that works well. A few weekends we were there and there were two 6-7 year olds. My son found a train that was not being played with and one of the other kids grabbed it from him. My son looked shocked then picked up another train. This time he was knocked over by the first kid and the second kid grabbed the train from him. Did I mention that there was an adult with the two kids watching them.

So, I did what some of the other people have mentioned that they don't like. I made a comment or two. I picked up my son and said that the kids there were too big and too rough and that he could have a turn later. I went on to tell him that if he ever knocks another child over and takes their train, we will leave immediately. The other adult rolled her eyes. I admit I felt like a b*tch, however, I also felt it was justified.

The following week he grabbed a train out of a bigger kids hand. Guess what we did? I apologized asked my son to apologize, then whisked him away.

6 year olds do not get to intentionally shove my 1.5 year old to the ground!

[r+k+mama]

Great advice Moxie!!Why did it never occur to me to just have the confidence in my parenting to say "this is how our family does it" and not feel bad when my kid is the only one with shoes on in the whole playground. I usually stick by my "made-up"(cough)rules but I couldn't figure out a better response than "because I said so!"-so thx, very helpful. It's so funny I was just talking about this with 2 other moms yesterday.I personally am on the more rule abiding side and for me it comes down to respecting others. If you let your kid climb up the slide, fine as long as he/she isn't infringing on those wanting to use it the proper way (and I do think their IS a proper way-at least on public equipment). I'm all for child exploration and learning to problem solve on their own but I'm NOT all for parents who hide behind that when they're really using the playground as a babysitter so they can make phone calls or gossip with other moms. My kid splashes in rain puddles, pets worms, digs giant wet and muddy holes, gets into it and makes up with other kids on her own but when she's at the playground she follows the rules, especially no throwing sand/rocks/woodchips- I totally don't understand parents that allow this. It's not a made up rule- it's a SAFTY issue.
On the other hand I've found it helpful to hang out with laxer mamas to help me see that it's ok to let the kid break a rule every once in while. My kids are only 3 and 8 mo-navigating the next few playground years are beginning to seem daunting :)!!

[Julie]

I have to agree with Shandra about the slide being a down-only toy.....my son gets physical therapy for low muscle tone in his core and lower body, and one of the things he's supposed to do is climb UP slides. Now I also agree with others that going up a slide when there are children playing on the slide is not okay. it was invented for kids to slide down...wheeee! But when no one is using it and my kid wants to climb up it? I say MYOFB to the stepford mom who informs me that slides are only for going down.......when her kids are playing on the jungle gym.

I'm also kind of laughing that today's post got over 50 responses and the past two days (with much more serious and heavier topics) got about 30......goes to show that a pp was right, we do take ourselves very seriously when it comes to playground manners and how other parents perceive us. Good manners are good manners, regardless of if we are at the playground or getting on an elevator or sitting at the table. We don't hog, we take our turn, we let someone else go in front of us if they are smaller/older/weaker/there first. It's just called "being nice". And it goes both ways...being respectful of other people's space, rules, and values. Again, stepford mom......step off. I'm talking to YOU.

[Cate]

What is the thing about no shoes? Seems like at the parks we go to, at least 1/2 of the kids, if not all, are barefoot. Parents, too. Is this an LA thing? When we visit my in-laws in Germany, we get constant comments about our barefoot guy (and selves), including inside the house and in the summer.

[just beth]

You know, I figure it's a playground, and if my kids aren't in danger (we always wear shoes and no climbing on the wrong side of the structures, that kind of thing) and aren't interfering with anyone elses fun, then I let them go. That means that I allow my two year old to climb UP the slide. I have had more dirty looks and people telling her not to go up the slide than I care to think about. I always make her wait until NO ONE else is trying to slide, we are often at the park on really light days... but some mothers CANNOT STAND children going up the slide. Unfortunatley, for my little spitfire, going up the slide is the only way she'll go down. So either we spend the day fighting or I let her go up the damn slide. So I let her.

My two cents!

xo

b.

[Jessica]

Two thoughts came to me while reading through the post and comments.

The first is, it's possible that family has different rules from yours because they have to. Maybe the kid who isn't allowed to go head-first down the slide has some depth perception issues and tends to not see the ground coming, or maybe the kid who isn't allowed to twist belly-first on the swings has hit her head one too many times (or just once!) on the support posts. If I know my child is capable of doing those things without getting hurt, I'll probably go ahead and let him do them (until/unless - God forbid - he does get hurt, at which point we would reevaluate). On the flip side, maybe we have a rule that that family doesn't have for a similar reason. Maybe my son isn't allowed to climb up the slide because he doesn't have the physical climbing capacity not to slip and conk his head or mouth against the side (and believe me, I have the least monkey-like toddler I've ever heard of). In a year, maybe he'll figure out how to do it, but for now, let the others do it, and he can go just one-way for now.

In either case (me with the stricter rules or me with the more lax rules) the explanation that "Different families have different rules" seems a good lesson to learn early. Which brings me to my second thought...

Even as adults, we see people speeding in the left lane, or turning right on red when there's a "No turn on red" sign posted, or just plain being impolite, and getting away with it. Even as adults, we have to know that just because someone else did something that we think is wrong and didn't "get in trouble" doesn't mean that it's okay for us to do it. Yes, the three people in front of me just turned at that red light, but I still shouldn't, because it says I shouldn't, even though there's no cop around.

It seems like the earlier the lesson of "Just because they did it doesn't mean you should" is learned, the happier your child will be making the decision to follow their own moral code against peer pressure or the popular opinion later on in life.

Of course, my kid is only 21 months, so this might be a case of "that's easy for you to say now..."

[S. Marie]

Like @Cate, I want to know why shoes must be worn at a playground. I often insist my 21m daughter takes OFF her shoes because I think she will be safer climbing some of the trickier bars and barefeet are WAY better for climbing UP the slide. I have never heard an adult insist that kids be in shoes at the playground, maybe because this is Hawaii. There are more barefeet, than covered at the playgrounds we frequent.

Our daughter is a climber and goes up slides, but we work with her to accommodate the kids going down and sometimes have to let her know that since so many kids are going down, it's not a good time to climb up - it's not safe. She will usually fall into the group rhythm, but sometimes that is an up the slide beat. Also a Hawaii thing?

However, I really do want to understand the safety issue of shoes on the playground. Am I missing something? Or is there something I should know about mainland playgrounds? Most playgrounds here have that synthetic turf.

What drives ME crazy at the playground is when a kid shows up with a really snazzy bike, scooter, ball, whatever and refuses to share it, or worse, the parents refuse to share. Toys we take to the playground or beach are for everyone and anyone - just like the public place we are sharing. It's about community and fun. I usually say "I am sorry honey, they don't want to share. Let's do something else." I am not trying to make the other child or parent feel bad. I just really don't know what else to say. Again, am I missing something? Is it a liability thing when the parent is obviously not letting other children use the coveted object?

Yesterday, we had to share the playground with 6 young adults who were smoking, jumping high off the swings, throwing the swings over the frame, lounging on the play structure, and play fighting (but aggressively). They had 2 small children with them so it wasn't like they didn't belong there. One of the children had a stick gun that he was blasting at my daughter while she tried to swing peacefully. My daughter was totally captivated by this group. When the fighting started, we went for a walk and I casually told her that they are play fighting, but that we don't do that as it is not safe, kind or respectful (a la Hedra). We returned, they were gone and my girl went happily barefoot up the slide.

[Rosemary]

Shoes/ no shoes, throwing sand / not throwing sand, up the slide / one way slides. I was happy with all those things; I was smug in the satisfaction of "well none of that bothers me either way, aren't I a cool and laid back mum" and then BAM, I read S. Maries comment about sharing toys at the playgournd and I found myself saying "What the ????" I'm not having a go at S. Marie here, but it sure cured me of my smugness!!!! @S. Marie, even though I'm not sure I agree with you, THANK YOU for giving me the kick up the clacker that I needed to pull me down a peg or two.

I think that the reason this post has got so many responses is because we all know it is about more than just what we do at the playgournd. It's where the rubber hits the road about living with difference and teaching our kids about our family values. What I find interesting is that mostly, eveyone has been able to articulate why their version of "just plain good manners / common sense" fits their philosophy or family values or what it says about what they want to teach their parents. Wow! It goes to show how far we have come from our parents / grandparents generation and the "Because this is the way we've always done it" style of parenting.

Anyway, this comment just went way off topic. Sorry!

[hedra]

RE: the shoes - having stepped on a bit of broken glass (as an adult, barefoot) and sliced through the tendon and nerve on the bottom of a toe, I'm a fan of shoes when you cannot control for what is in the dirt/sand/mulch. One never knows if teenagers were drinking beer there last night and thought it would be funny to throw empty bottles at the monkey bars to see the bottles explode in clouds of shards. Playground paranoia comes from experience, sometimes.

Watershoes are good for playground play, IMHO - the ones made for beach wear that allow the sand to go out, especially. We don't do barefoot on the playground, but I also don't spend my time fretting about those who do - I don't even know if kids around here are more shoes-on or shoes-off, it doesn't occur to me to look.

[Cecilia]

I try to have my daughter follow the posted rules at the playground. However, some local playgrounds (Ohio) state that running is not allowed.

No running? Luckily at 2-1/2 years old, her running isn't much faster than an adult walk, so we pretty much ignore that rule.

No wonder children are getting obese.

[m]

re: shoes off

In our neighbourhood, needles and condoms, as well as broken glass at parks are a sad reality. Luckily for us, my son almost always demands to wear socks (and therefore shoes). I'm trying to cure him of his sock obsession, as in our backyard I'd rather he just go barefoot, although I would never allow him to go barefoot at most of the parks we frequent.

[Elle]

I wouldn't make my kid follow someone else's rule. I just say that each kid's mom/dad/grandma gets to make their own rules for their own kids. I really don't get some of these rules though -- what exactly is the problem with stomach swinging? We really only have one common rule at our local playground, which is no throwing sand. Everyone seems to be pretty stern on that one (including me.) I also wouldn't hesitate to tell another kid who was doing something that endangered/freaked out my kids to knock it off. Maybe we're just lucky but at least with the elder I mostly just get to sit on the bench and chat while she plays. Still have to shadow the toddler a bit, but her day is coming too!

I'll tell you what's worse, is having totally different standards than a family member. We've had one babysitting our little one for a while now and overprotective doesn't even come close to describing her. I feel it's actually stifling my child's development. We've spoken to her about it many times mostly gently but sometimes more forcefully, but she can't seem to change her ways. It has a triple whammy of causing a strain between us, not giving my daughter the opportunities she needs to develop her skills, and making me think that she figures I'm not mother of the year because I don't constantly hover over the kid and practically chew her food for her. This arrangement is coming to an end, fortunately for a variety of reasons so there are no hard feelings. But it's very hard to have to parent so closely with someone who has completely opposite ideas about what babies/toddlers should be doing. Since I'm considered pretty laid back I never thought I had a "parenting philosophy" but I think now maybe I do. Sorry for the tangeant!

[Jan]

In my kids' world (a world of my creation .... heheheh), "because he has a different Mommy than you do" is totally an answer to the "why does he get to" question.

Different people have different rules. Different people have different values. If I get any argument, I use it as a jumping off point for the "different values aren't necessarily bad" discussion. Maybe the possibility of the discussion is the deterrent? At any rate, it seems to work pretty well on my 4 year old, in spite of the fact that she knows EVERYTHING in the WHOLE entire WORLD.

[Zoe C]

Although I don't have kids (yet...) then I have to chime in here. I'm working at a summer camp for kids this summer, and I try my best to make sure my group is following the rules that both are set overall, and the ones I set with my group. But it drives me CRAZY when other instructors don't do the same, it makes it so much more harder for me to enforce or justify the rules to my campers, especially when I can't use the "different family" or "different age group" reason, as many of the groups are exactly the same.

So that is my rant for the day!

[S. Marie]

Please tell me that barefeet on the beach are not dangerous. Shores with sharp rocks or reefs of course require shoes, but is there a reason to think sand is not safe?

Hedra, even if I think sand shoes are a silly concept I like the idea that they may be good climbing shoes. Thanks for the tip.

I realized that since most kids here are leaving the house in slippers (aka thongs or flip flops that might explain the barefeet at the playground. Slippers are just not great for running or climbing and usually fall off anyway while swinging.

[hedra]

@S. Marie, the whole drug use and glass bottles on the beach thing is also an issue many places. Stepping on a sharp shell now and then never seemed to bother me, stepping on glass is a whole other deal. And since you never know what will come in on the tide... sigh.

[Santa's Safety Elf]

I am in charge of creating a playground safety parent-authored set of safety rules for public playgrounds. Familiar topics that inspired the effort are all here, bu there are some surpises that are seemingly no-briners that we somehow never though of. You are invited to contribute as we are all on the same mission: http://santa.net/santa-claus-christmas-blog/2009/09/21/santa-claus-unofficial-public-playground-rule-book/

[Adharini]

This film is like no other. The scary thing is it has happened. You dont have to live a hiorrble life to wanna kill yourself. The virgin sucides just go to show that. You can be a blonde, pretty, well brought up girl with a loving family in the suburbs still be emotionally unstable. Back 5 years ago when I was a senoir in Hs. Our homecoming Queen hung herself before graduation. Everyone was shocked, But I wasn't Cuz even though we only spoke a few times I could see she was not very happy.

[Olesya]

I just found your podcast at #30 so am wrkoing back through some older posts; loving them! Your defense of the NHS was brilliant. I am a Canadian and the US had a go at our system too. You put my exact thoughts into words right on.Keep up the great podcast!

[Ventas]

I'm 14, and I used to live in Grosse Pointe. To me, the song and the movie really hit a stnirg with me. they both capture the mystery and unattainability that youth and adolescence experience. The beauty is hidden under superficiality and is forgotten once we all turn adults. The movie portrays Grosse Pointe almost perfectly, and this song is like the background music for the city and its people. Anyway, to make a long story short Fantastic.

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