Q&A: grandfather surfing naughty sites

Rebecca writes:

"Frankly, I can't believe I'm asking this question, for so many reasons. One is that I have a vague feeling that I'm being naive. Second, it's embarrassing to ask about porn. But here goes.

I just discovered that my father in law spends a great deal of his time on the internet watching porn videos, photos, etc. I discovered this because we were staying with them for almost a week and were allowed liberal use of their computer. I am an email and Google junkie so I spent time checking messages and Googling things like where I could find an urgent care center in Albuquerque for my 4-month old with an ear infection. Anyhoodle, my FIL's version of Firefox shows you the most frequent Google searches when you begin to type in the URL bar. And that's how I found that the most frequent search is a porn site. This lead me to a slightly unethical search of his internet history. And *that* lead me to promise myself never to look at his history again, a) because it's so clearly none of my business, and b) I don't want to know any more than I know now, considering I want to continue the lovely relationship we currently have.

My question is this: is there any reason to be concerned for my daughter's safety? My gut tells me that I don't have anything to worry about. But my gut also tells me, as I'm the child of a rape victim, that you really and truly never know. The statistics are there to prove it.

My daughter spends maybe one weekend every month or two with her grandparents, largely with us around as well. But my husband and I do occasionally go out to dinner while we're visiting them (in NM, we live in TX) and leave the baby with her grandfather and grandmother.

The porn habit seems to be a daily event, from what I can glean from the history. It seems that he checks his email and watches some porn. My feeling is that sexual desires, even the raunchy ones, are perfectly, beautifully normal. Meeting your needs is also perfectly normal. But something about daily dates with porn on the internet plus caring for my baby makes me squeamish."

Boy are there a whole lotta issues in this question! Let's start with the issues directly involving your daughter. I am NOT NOT NOT an expert on sex or sexuality or porn or sexual abuse. But it's my understanding that sexual proclivities don't cross. So a man who's looking at porn of adult women is not interested in little kids. I'd hazard a guess that the majority of men who would definitely cross the street to check out Playboy would be absolutely repulsed by the idea of a little kid in a sexual way. So, in your situation, I don't think I'd be concerned about your FIL hurting your daughter directly.

However, that doesn't mean that she couldn't be hurt by accidentally being exposed to porn. Showing kids pornographic and sexual material while they're still children is a form of sexual abuse.(and it can be testing/prepping behavior if the person is intending to molest the child.)  Even if your FIL would never ever intend it, the fact that you could get to it so easily when you weren't trying means that any kid using his computer could get their easily, too, without trying. Your daughter's going to be at the age pretty soon when she's going to want to do Neopets or that penguin game or whatever, and she'll want to do it while she's visiting them, and probably show it off to her grandparents. Two misplaced clicks and she's seeing something she really shouldn't be seeing.

Here's the part of the post when I'm supposed to talk about whether porn is good or bad or whatever. Personally, I think it's damaging to the people who make it more than to many of the people who use it. But I know people on both sides of the issue who work(ed) in the porn/sex industry. Some say it's degrading and coercive; others say it's empowering and liberating. I think for users it can be harmless in some situations, but extremely damaging in others. Using porn if your partner doesn't know is, to me, a problem. And avoiding your partner in order to use porn is a very very serious problem.

The other aspect to worry about is addiction. If he's doing it every day, then he could be addicted. If he's choosing porn over other activities, that's definitely addiction. As with other addictions, it could cause him to act irrationally, but the bigger issue is the isolation there's going to be between him and the people he's distancing from (by using the porn) and hiding it from.

I'm wondering if there's a problem in your in-laws' marriage. If it's something physical, maybe they've chosen porn for your FIL as a way to live with it as well as they can. If they haven't chose the porn together, though, this could be something that's going to come out and be a problem. And you may end up having to deal with some fallout.

So, to recap this super-long post: The porn could be a problem either for your FIL alone, or for your FIL and for his marriage. So just be prepared that it could blow up and involve the whole family. Or perhaps it's just a pragmatic way of dealing with some physical side effects of getting older.

Your immediate concern should be making sure that your daughter doesn't see the porn. The most direct way to do this is to make sure your FIL keeps it where she can't see it. You shouldn't have to have this conversation with him (I cannot think of a conversation that could possibly be more awkward between FIL and DIL!). Instead, get your husband to mention it. He can use the computer and pretend that he came upon the sites, and say something like, "Dude, can you hide your porn? What if my daughter sees it??" and it'll be one of those nudge-nudge Guy Things. And if your FIL is a decent guy he'll rush to shield your daughter from anything too old for her, and problem solved.

Keep your eyes and ears open, and trust your instincts. It wouldn't hurt to reread Protecting the Gift. And good for you for poking around to protect your baby.

Anyone think I'm totally off the mark? Other opinions? Experiences? Anyone worked in the sex industry who wants to comment? Agreement?

Comments

[anon]

I think it is naive to think that this is a problem. I think that a very large number of men and a smaller number of women look at porn with great frequency as part of their own sexual relationship with themselves, as another commenter put it. I agree that if it was child porn, I would be concerned. But if it's just the regular stuff, I would back away and mind my own business.

I went anon on this so I could say this - I looked at porn online (fairly raunchy types, too) nearly every day of my pregnancy. And I enjoyed it very much. And now I don't anymore. Ebb and flow. I work with children for my job every day. I am happily married. And sometimes I like porn. Ta da!

I think this concern is over the top, personally. I think following one's instinct is good but I think many American women are way too concerned with porn and the supposedly inherent problems therein. I also think it is unfair to men to assume the worst, porn or none. That attitude is perpetuating the idea that men can't be nurturing and that their sexuality is automatically dangerous. I hate that my son will grow up in a world where some people would suspect him of things just for being male.

[sammy]

Appalled, How Dare you imply that someone elses husband is looking at porn? Its ludicrous of you to suggest that all married men look at porn. Sure, alot do, but I wouldn't say all. I know for a fact that my husband does not, because we have an honest and healthy relationship, and he knows how I feel about it. You can roll your eyes about that if you wish. Don't ever make accusations you can't validate, and even if you CAN validate, still don't make accusations. I hope you feel genuinly crummy that you could have ruined someones day by your lousy comments.

[Anon]

Wow! I have to say I am surprised at the number of responses indication that this is "A Problem."

I think it's important to ask: Did Rebecca have any uneasiness about FIL before coming across the porn cache? Does the porn feature children, animals, violence?

If no, then I think it's none of her business and unfortunate that her FIL isn't tech-savvy enough to realize how to maintain his privacy on the computer. Maybe Rebecca or her husband could offer to "increase online security" and change some of the in-laws' browser settings to stop the auto-fill setting and clear the history daily?

Clearly, her child (when she reaches an age at which she can actually use the computer) should be supervised on the computer at the grandparents' house. But that goes for ANY computer and ANYONE'S house. If Rebecca's daughter is going to be online often there, I second the idea of an account for her with parental restrictions.

I second Anon above in that I have gone through very sexy periods in which I looked at porn online or read women's erotica daily.

Not so much anymore--a 14 month old baby put a damper on all the sex, online and otherwise! I am a good mother, in a happy marriage, and a confident, sexual woman.

I absolutely agree we should follow our instincts to protect our children, but in the absence of other red flags, the in-laws' sex life should be private.

[anonaswell]

Nobody's really addressed another issue - what right did Rebecca have to go digging through her FIL's history? It's his computer, and while I can understand going "whoops" at seeing something that maybe was not meant for public eyes, but turned up anyways, to then purposefully dig through stuff? come ON. If you're over, I say you can go into my bedroom, and you happen to see a suicidegirls print, that doesn't mean I'm giving you permission to root around under my bed to see what toys I have.

[Rob]

I seem to be in agreement with the comment above. The biggest issue needing discussion here is the egregious breach of trust shown by the DIL, not the fact that a grown man with no one to hide it from *did I read correctly that the child in question here is 4 months old? A little young to be using a PC, no?* has viewed porn links.

Infact, the entire email to this blog is a big slap in the face aimed at the FIL. For his lack of hiding the fact that he clicks on porn links (that he, as a grown man has no reason to hide from other "mature" adults) we have successfully deciphered that he:

A) Has absolutely no regard for the child and would never take steps to protect his grandchild from questionable material when the child becomes of the age where stumbling upon it on the way to www.winniethepooh.com becomes a possibility

B) Is potentially a sexual deviant &

C) Is incapable of having an adult conversation about sex with other adults.

I dare you, seriously, to challenge this grown man who has already raised children of his own, with this nonsense. The submitter needs the ensuing reality check quite badly.

Quick fix. When your child becomes of age to use the computer unsupervised, have a talk with your FIL about internet filtering software and how it can protect the child that the entire family cherishes from viewing material you find objectable to your child's development. I wouldn't be at all shocked if your FIL thinks of it before you do.

[Anon too]

This post and the comments makes me sad, for a number of reasons. Should a parent protect their children, of course. Is a family member going to harm a child because he/she looks at pornography on the internet, probably not. Does it say anything about their marriage, probably not. I have a "massager" that is, umm, effective, however, I don't think that it will lead to the downfall of my marriage.

What makes me incredibly sad is that there seem to be a lot of people who have lost their trust of other people for very good reason. It makes the balancing act of raising a son to trust his instincts first and people second even more difficult.

I am sorry that there has been so much pain. I wish everyone peace and safe children.

[hedra]

I'm with Anon too. (sorry, just found this)

I'm also an abuse survivor. Finding porn on my FIL's computer would probably shock me (especially knowing him), but I would then have to track my instincts, and not my knee-jerk reactions. What do I know? How much do I actually know here? Do I have assumptions and are they grounded in other instincts about this person? Are my assumptions valid in THIS case (since statistics don't apply to individuals - 99.9% of men might view porn online, but that leaves thousands and thousands and thousands who do not... which side of the bell curve is THIS person on, that's the question). Statistics don't help me here. All they do is paint a general picture in black and white, and leave me trying to figure out where to place data point 1 (the only one I have). In millions of data points, where is he?

Yes, protect the kids - but start with no unsupervised computer time, period. This means bringing up the accidental find, most likely. Now the next question - do you admit to poking around further? Do you expose that you are willing to snoop (a huge breach of trust) for your kids (and question first if it was just for your kids - if there's even a whiff of personal snoop-gossip-prying for your own reasons, it will smell right through the roses. Know before you speak, so you can admit honestly either way.)... don't go righteous, either - it doesn't read well. Rueful and cautious and mortified is better - and I'd hope that was how you actually feel, granting the other party a chance to present their case. I've seen the protective over-reaction nearly shatter good families, the fear of predators undermine good communication. Balancing 'who do I trust?' with 'who must I protect?' is hard. hard hard hard. Essential to find one's way, in this case, or just remove oneself from the family now and get it over with cleanly.

I found the playboys (etc.) as a kid. It didn't ruin me. This doesn't mean that finding it is a good idea. It just isn't catastrophic to everyone (I am not too great an example, though, as I was already a sexual abuse survivor by then).

So, um, yes, act to protect, but do so with an eye to the actual known problem, which is access to porn. If talking it out leaves you with other concerns, then you have new, other concerns, that were brought up by the talking. And know that you can't always know what's up with your kids (my mom was abused but didn't know - even with decent radar - that I had been, as I intentionally hid the fact from her... something about being certain she'd make me face it and deal with it, and certain that I'd die - shatter and die - if she did.).

Likewise, sad that there are so many of us. Sad that so many areas of life tie into the damage for everyone.

[Kelly]

As long as you didn't see any sites on there to be concerned about (kid porn stuff) then there's no reason your DH can't explain to him how to hide his history. I explained it to my dad years ago when I found a few searches from him in history for some nudie pics of some Playboy model. I wanted to make sure my mom didn't find out, which is really stupid, as I found out they keep a Playboy in the factory where he works and she knows about that. Anyway, if a daughter can have that conversation with her dad, then a son certainly can. Just make it very matter of fact. As was said before, a lot of people just don't know how browser history functions. We'll cover it again when my daughter is old enough to want to use their computer when visiting.

[Generic Viagra]

I am absolutely revolted, to be clear, by "Appalled" above, who takes his (or her, but... come on, you're a dude, right?) fear of being judged so far as to yell at the OP for daring to express concern about someone's fitness to be around her kid.

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