Q&A: Second child Shangrila?

Annette writes:

"Am I missing something? I had my second baby (a boy!) 6 weeks ago. My daughter is 3. So far the new baby stage has been tiring and intense, but nowhere near as horrible as it was with my daughter. Even the growth spurts and Gas Wars (DH's term) have been easier to deal with. My daughter is annoyed that I always have the baby attached to me, but she's been doing lots of playdates and seems basically fine with the situation.

I can't shake the feeling, though, that the poop is going to hit the fan one of these days. Don't people go nuts with two kids? Is it just because the baby is so young? I don't want to get cocky and then end up developing PPD later on because things got hard and I wasn't expecting it."

If there was ever a good question for a group to answer, this is it! We need data points.

For me (and my kids were the same age spread as Annette's) the first 2-3 weeks were a piece of cake, comparatively (but then I had a home birth the second time with no tears and a nice snarky midwife and my mom, and my milk came in like gangbusters and he nursed from the get-go, so it was the dream situation and I was grateful for it the entire time and still am). And he was an amazing sleeper from the get-go.

Then the new baby stuff started to kick in, and my little guy was teething in painful rashy earnest from 6 weeks until his first tooth came in at around 6 months. I'd say that the entire first year of my second son's life was really hard for me. Some of that was that my bond with my older one was so strong that it was hard for me to readjust the relationship between the three of us. Also, there was some pretty awful emotional stuff going on with me at the time that cast a pall over that entire time period. I felt truly isolated from my friends because of that emotional stuff, and also because it was just much harder to get out and to participate with the two kids.

It got easier for me, personally, when the kids started to really interact with each other, which was around 10-11 months or so. Strangely, that was the age at which they started to fight a little over toys. But I think that genuine interaction (instead of just the older brother cooing at the baby thing) was when the corner turned.

If you have two or more children, what was your experience of the first however many months with the second child? Mention the age spread of your kids, any circumstances of the birth that would affect the postpartum phase, and anything else you think is relevant.

Comments

[rudyinparis]

Oh, mollyball, I love your last post! All three of us ended up crying... took us 45 minutes to go up the stairs... diaper with a giant poop. I think what you wrote should be given to all expecting parents, it SO summed up the reality! Also love the "I'm in control, I can handle this, oh no, I'm not in control! I can't handle this!" vibe, which also perfectly represents the minute-by-minute reality.

Anyway.

Bedtime? I'm not sure. Ours are 2.5 years apart. When I've had to do it alone, when they were a toddler and a baby... um... I think I have post-traumatic stress disorder, because, honestly, I have no recollection. {koff} Best of luck to you!

[attiton]

My daycare provider is a mother of four (yes, she then takes OTHER people's kids into her home...she really likes kids, I guess). When I asked her about what it was like having four kids, she said to me, "Two is no big deal if there are two parents around, because each of you can just focus on one child if need be. THREE really kicked our butt...but once we got used to that, four was no trouble."

I think about that from time to time when contemplating #2...especially as I'm an only child, and just have no concept of what it is like to have a sibling. Any other onlies out there with advice on how to raise more than one?

[Lisa]

Two girls: 2.8 toddler and 10 wk infant. I was dreading the infant stage with my second child because I had strong memories of total exhaustion with my first. In retrospect, I probably overfed my first -- nursing when she needed another form of soothing to sleep -- which resulted in constant spit-up. Hard to say for certain, of course, if this was the issue, but in any case, she absolutely could not sleep on her back, and I was too nervous for a long time about SIDS to try having her sleep on her tummy. My second is an "easy" baby, but that's partly because I've been more aggressive about letting her tummy-sleep.

The issue for me, therefore, is not my infant, but my toddler. There are many times when her normal toddler exuberance just irritates me. I want to do fun projects with her like we used to (baking was a favorite), but that's not possible right now because I never know when I'll be interrupted. I feel sorry for her when she's obviously acting up because she wants my undivided attention, and yet I also can't help feeling aggravated. I think both of us will be happier once the warm weather is here to stay and we can be outdoors. Even better, she'll attend a summer camp starting in June and preschool starting in the fall. I think she's more than ready to go, and if I could send her now, I would.

[Christy yo]

If I had read this question a few weeks ago I would’ve probably punched a whole through my computer screen in a jealous rage. Too easy?!!!!!! My daughter (now 32 months) and my son (4 months) are 27 months apart and it has been a harrowing experience! I was totally unprepared for my 1st born in every way and was expecting the worst, when to my delight I got the worlds happiest baby. Every kid has their issues but for the most part she was easy peasy in the sleep, temperament and poop department and I’m pretty sure the birds and butterflies fluttered past and a rainbow sprouted every time I nursed her. Heaven. She was so great that 2 months after having her (and I had hyper emesis for all nine months and all the fun that goes along with it i.e. no energy, anemia et cetera) I was ready for #2. Thankfully my husband wanted to wait a while so we tried for our second, which took 6 months, putting his due date in the middle of December. (Some friendly advice, if you live where it’s cold and have a hard time being cooped up- DO NOT have a winter baby). My little man came out screaming (not crying, screaming) and did not stop until about 3 weeks ago. This was so hard on my daughter who WAS excited for the baby. When he screamed she tried to scream louder and we were so exhausted we didn’t know if we should discipline her or what but I’m pretty sure I lost some sanity in those first 2 months that I’ll never get back. Between the colic and the reflux we never caught a break. The only time he stopped screaming was to mutilate my boobs (which were so hard from mastitis that he bit chunks out of them). I was so excited to add to the family and was so shocked and unprepared for how things turned out that I’m sure now I was on the PPD spectrum, but was too stubborn to admit it. In a fit of his screaming and my sleep deprivation and boob pain I screamed at him- “Why are you such a sh#*tty baby!” Nice, huh? My crowning moment of parenthood. The good news? Things got better. The crying ceased the day we made an appointment to run a battery of tests on the little guy and he’s been happy and I’m pretty sure I’ve even seen the beginnings of a rainbow at feeding time. For me, getting used to two was the absolute worst experience of my life, but reading this, I see people’s experiences have ranged all over the bored. If you have it easy- don’t question it, just be thankful. Needless to say I told my OB to just “shove in like 5” IUDs at my 4 week pp check, but who knows- if I can block out 18 months of puiking, anything’s possible…

[pnuts mama]

of course i'm reading this all and soaking it in and am trying to prepare myself mentally for what it may be like when pnut turns three and the babybean arrives. HA!

my best case scenario is that he will be super easy in comparison to what she was like as an infant, worse case i suppose is he will be worse (agh!)

i too worry about how our dynamic will change, as my difficult baby is now a mostly delightful toddler (of course you all have prepped me for the big hairy 3 year old monster waiting for me this summer) and how having a baby will affect her. we're hoping to have her in some sort of preschool by fall to give her her own space and life of her own away from the slog of the constant nursing cycle on the couch thing.

i would agree it's probably going to have a lot to do with everyone's personality (mine, not so easy with a high needs baby) combined, but i do think in many ways i am definitely not as concerned about so much of the stuff i was when pg with her- now i mostly think of the logistics of two issues etc. we'll see what happens!

[caramama]

Thank you, people! I love all the data points. In just a few more months, we will start trying for #2, and I finally feel ready for the madness again.

What I've been frustrated by is that everyone says that because our first was so hard the second one will be easy. But I can't count on that! It may happen, but it may not. So I'm relieved to hear from people like mollyball who does have two difficult ones. I need to prepare for that and just be pleasantly surprised if we get an easy one.

Am I crazy for wanting three when the first was so difficult and I have no idea what two will be like? Anyone have more thoughts on going from 2:1 to 1:1 to 2:3 (or more)? Is it hard to bond to all three and keep those bonds strong?

[SnarkyMommy]

Rudyinparis hit it right on the head for me. I love having two (my son is 26 months, my daughter is three months) but it is a lot of work most days. For us right now, the biggest issue is timeout -- my son whacks his sister, she is wailing, he needs timeout but I can't hold him in timeout while she needs comforting and it's chaos. We finally started doing timeout in a portable highchair on the floor and he can't escape and it's much more effective. But it's stuff like that you don't really think about until you are in the midst of it.

The days where we all go out to the park or the zoo or just for a walk are good. The days where rain or cold keep us inside are not good -- 2-year-old acts like a lunatic and that's when the hitting of his sister really kicks in. Add a traveling husband to the mix and you get a wiped out mommy.

But I also have a lot of help from the Grandmas, which is awesome. They usually play with the older since I am nursing the younger, which is great.

So you might have trouble as the baby gets older and you might not. I think it depends on everyone's temperment. You can have two easy kids but if you are feeling overwhelmed yourself, it's still going to make it seem harder.

[Jen]

Whoever said why can some people do 4 and I can't even do one well . . . that is exactly how I feel. It's like "am I missing a mothering chromosome or something"? I feel like such a doofus loser some days when I KNOW I have this girl who is such a sweet, easy, snuggly girl and yet I'm stressed, complaining, etc. WTF kind of freak am I?

I did see something interesting in snarkyMommy's post . . . and it is something missing from my dynamic. We have no (helpful) family in our area. So, we don't get a break at all. The grandparents rarely visit their beautiful granddaughter. Perhaps it would be different if we had more help? Who is to know. . .

Oh and if we did go for the second and he/she had a difficult temperment . . . I might totally lose it.

Can someone speak to how they do things logistically/practically? How do you nap a baby with a 2 or 3 yo around, as an example? Or feeding a toddler when the baby needs to nurse/eat?

[Tara]

I am enjoying reading these comments...

I am 11 weeks pg with #2 (holy surprise baby!), putting the kiddos exactly 18 months apart.

My daughter is almost a year old, and has been very difficult from the get-go. A great nurser, though an awful sleeper (still doesn't sleep through the night, sometimes not even close), and she was perpetually cranky until she got mobile (which thankfully was very early). She's a happy kid, though not easy-going, if that makes sense. I'm excited about two under two, sort of... though I am hoping that we can get #1 sleeping better so I don't go insane when the baby comes.

Already praying/wishing/hoping/dreaming that #2 will be a bit more mellow, if that is at all possible.

[Sherry]

Yep. Chiming in to agree with Jen, Sarah, DC Ranger, and Charisse. I will be 40 soon, so almost no time to decide about a second child. First is 11 months. I don't think I want to do it again. My marriage is already a struggle. I love him, but oh, the tension. And we have a pretty delightful baby.

[Jan]

@mollyball, RE: bedtime with a toddler and an infant, I made liberal use of both the swing and the sling. If you happen to be my OB (who quite correctly mandated no lifting over 10 pounds after my c-section), please turn away now. If I could get the Little Dude asleep or happy in the swing, I'd just leave him and hope for the best and whip through the Munchkin's bedtime as fast as possible.

More often, though, I'd settle him enough in the sling to be able to sit and rock, then I'd pull her into my lap and we'd read and rock. Then I'd take them both upstairs, rock and sing to her (sling kind of off to the side; he was usually settled by then) and put her in her bed, hopefully without completely squashing him. I'd rock him some more if I'd awakened him and when he was soundly asleep, put him down with the sling still around him and pull it away from him as much as possible.

As bedtimes have shifted, I've alternately had her 'help' with his bedtime, then put her down; had him wait for me in his crib (I could get a master's degree in astrophysics in the amount of time it takes this child to tire of 'vroom'-ing his cars) while I put her to bed, then did him; and done everything (reading, potty, brushing teeth, hugs and kisses) together until almost the very end. Bedtime is one of my favorite times with my kids and I love doing it myself with them consistently, even though it's been tricky sometimes.

[Caroline]

Thank you, Jan. I'm scared to death of having to both to bed someday. It's nice to hear that it could *gasp* be pleasant. Never occurred to me.

Mine are 3 years 9 months apart. Younger is just 8 weeks, and I have to say the first 2 weeks or so were not so much fun. But for me the main issue is a terrible milk supply, so pumping every spare second just ain't going to make life with a newborn fun. Then, as we got into a bit more of a routine and I relaxed the dairy production schedule a bit, things started to seem do-able.

Today was my husband's first full day back at the office, which coincided nicely with the elder's preschool spring break. And a trip to the Ped for the younger's first cold. Nice. But we survived.

My sainted mother (who lives 3000 miles away) actually gave me money for a sitter. A luxury I never would have gone for myself on a regular basis, as I'm a stay-at-homer now. But boy, just knowing that I have a few hours a week of help is a lifesaver. And having my own kids, and wanting nothing more in the world than to love them and help them and be there for them, I get why my mom did that.

[chaser]

I’m with rudyinparis. The constant barrage of demands, lordy, sometimes I feel like some frazzled mom in a commercial. Sometimes I have to gulp air in order not to go straight out of my mind. The little guy is 9 mo and totally adorable, but very active, determined to learn to pull up ASAP so he can reach new things to put in his mouth, and his primary mode of communication is to scream, whether in delight or frustration. Meanwhile his older brother, 3 yrs 9 mo, is all about the urgency of the moment. “Mom watch this! Mom come quick, look at me! Mom will you please cut up my waffle! Mom you forgot my milk and water! Mom! Mom!” Fortunately, the two of them enjoy each other a lot, and are starting to provide each other with real entertainment.

I am fond of saying that the transition from one kid to two is a tiny fraction of the transition from zero to one – you’ve already made the enormous leap of organizing your life around parenting, and really what bigger change is there? The newborn phase with #2 was really fine. (and wow, yes, a beautiful recovery from a great home birth made me wish so much I had done it for both!) However, lately I notice that my house is a wreck and I hardly see my husband and I feel like I’m constantly driving between daycare, preschool, and work. I think it must have ratcheted up on me while I was busy doing … all of it.

[Lee]

Sooooooo much easier the second time around!

The way I look at it is that #1 was hard because I was adjusting to losing my sense of self and my freedom.

For #2, I'd already lost them, so I was able to just bask in his glow and enjoy everything. Even the fact that #2 is now 6mo and sleeps like a newborn doesn't faze me (well, maybe a bit...).

[Julie]

For those like Jen who just don't think they can juggle two high spirited toddlers/babies, yet also feel like they might want more kids is to perhaps wait a bit longer until older is around 4? Or even 5? Maybe not ideal for age issues and/or sibling friendhsip issues in childhood, but I think your sanity should trump all else. Also if you don't have any family nearby (or willing to help)....get your older one a bit older and you can have some built-in help. Maybe. But maybe not.

[Carla Hinkle]

I was spoiled beyond belief because my mom rented a small house 1 mile from me for the express purpose of helping the first 6 weeks with my 2nd baby.

But that aside -- mine (2 girls) are 2 years 9 months apart. Currently they are ages 4 and 15 months.

It has its ups and downs but neither has been a particularly difficult child so while 2 feels more *hectic* than 1, it is certainly manageable. (of course both are regular kids, not angels, but they just have normal kid ups and downs, nothing that really stands out.) My younger daughter isn't as good a sleeper as my older -- but is a much better eater. Both were good breastfeeders. They fight over toys but their age spread means they can't *really* share all the toys, which actually makes things easier.

One thing that is starting to emerge is that on weekends, when everyone is home from pre-school and work, the house gets totally destroyed and the fridge/pantry eaten bare by about 2 pm Saturday. I *do* feel pretty frazzled by Sunday night. I don't remember that happening with 1 child.

I think it is very much related to the personality of the kid and really does go in phases.

PS how to get the kids to bed by yourself? Easy-peasy. Put on a TV show for the toddler, and put the baby to bed. Then put the toddler to bed. :-) (And I'm not joking about that, my husband is out of town tonight and that is #1 on the evening agenda.)

[Jill]

Another data point.

My two are a little more than 5 years apart. My girl is 7.5, and my boy is 2.5, and they are a dream. The timing wasn't really by choice, but now I'm glad. By the time my son was born, my daughter was far more independent and her life wasn't as disrupted.

I think the second was easier mostly due to temperament, as he's an easy-going sort, but also because we parental types knew that nothing lasts forever, and that we could survive baby boot camp.

I mean, let's face it. New babies are tough no matter what other responsibilities you have. I think temperament matters more than much else. My daughter was more high needs as an infant, and still is to this day. My son is just a chill little dude.

But still - we've had no jealousy, no major fighting, nursing was easier the second time, both had a hard time learning to go to sleep on their own (without nursing), but now both sleep like the dead . . . Sure, I was exhausted in the first several months, but although I wouldn't say two are as easy to manage as one, it's been so much fun.

[z]

It is interesting to read all these data points and comments. With 2.0 on his way any day now I am somewhat relieved and crossing my fingers for an easy temperament though I can't complain about my 1st. I guess my focus so far has been on logistics and I have gotten some good ideas from the comments. So thanks moms!
Here's hoping I too will be in Shangrila!!

[Sue]

I had twins, and they have just turned two. To those who are wondering about how to do the logistics of feeding a toddler while trying to breastfeed, or any other combination of activities that you will spend hours thinking about "how is this going to work, really?", I found that baby carriers of any kind were awesome. I think if you had to, you might even be able to nurse a baby in a Bjorn or sling. I love the blog "amazing trips" because she's got triplets and a baby, and gives lots of tips on logistics.

[pnuts mama]

@z and all the others expecting #2 (first of all, good luck and i am with you!)...

i read recently that the consumption of chocolate has shown direct results in happier babies. which has helped me justify my dark chocolate addiction as of late...

[Megz]

Everyone told us before the second one was born that it's easier second time around. And some things are easier - especially knowing what you're doing and what to expect. I found breastfeeding MUCH easier the second time. And there were things took me months to learn the first time, that I know not to do this time. Like don't spend hours trying to rock her back to sleep when she wakes up. Just let her get up. Besides, with a rambunctious toddler on the loose I just don't have time to rock the little one to sleep.

Eldest was 22 months when DD2 was born. That was almost 5 months ago. The first two weeks were great. Then the screaming started (The baby that is. And me too. But thankfully not the toddler). The 2-12 week period was pretty horrific. But we're through that now and DD2 is now a smiley, happy little lady who got her first tooth today. Luckily she learnt quite early on to self settle herself to sleep, so I still get to spend lots of quality time with DD1 while the baby is napping.

The hardest part I find is juggling their competing needs. DD1 needs to be doing things, and getting out of the house, and has such a busy week going to playgroups etc. Whereas DD2 needs to stay home and have a stable routine and regular naps. Which she doesn't get. The compromise I've reached is that we go out in the mornings and do toddler activities, then come home for lunch and naps, and then spend the afternoon at home.

Mostly I feel guilty that the little one doesn't get as much attention as the big one got at her age. She just gets dragged around from place to place. And at home often gets stuck under her activity gym while I'm busy taking big one to the potty, or making her lunch, or keeping her occupied in some way.

The other big difference is that hubby has to help out a LOT more now that we have two. I normally give both girls a bath together at night, and then he puts DD1 to bed while I feed DD2 and put her to bed. When he's not home it's a nightmare - reading stories to DD1 while DD2 lies next to us screaming. Hardly a relaxing bedtime routine for anyone!

It is still very tiring with two though, especially getting up during the night and not being able to rest during the day. I just have to keep reminding myself that the hard times will eventually pass. I found once DD1 was about 12 months that everything seemed to get a lot easier, and I'm hoping that's the case with DD2 as well.

[Sara]

My 2 boys are 21 months apart. The first one was breeze until about 10 months when he decided he didn't want to settle anymore, but once we got that sorted he was fine. The second one was easy too (though a frequent waker at night), and big brother just adjusted to his presence as if he had always been around.

However, when the little one started walking (12 months) and teething badly, and the bigger one was 2.5yrs and acting it we had a couple of months that were VERY challenging. We were also stuck inside the house most of the time, having relocated to a cold winter. I remember at the time thinking how hard it was, and making the decision there would be NO third child, but looking back on it I now think I was quite depressed.

We got through it, and are all friends again now, being able to get outside has helped as well as the boys getting older and moving on to their next stages.

So, like everything with kids, I think there is no predicting which way it will go. Just enjoy the good times when they are with you.

[paola]

@pnuts mom

Re. chocolate consumption: do you mean the child or the mother? If it's the mum, my kid must have been destined to be really miserable. I have my 20gr a day ( perhaps I should be having more??) every day, and my breastfed toddler is still such a freaking sour puss

[hedra]

@paola, the amount of time spent smiling and laughing is definitely higher if the mom consumed chocolate daily during pregnancy. There's no correlation, however, to the amount of time spent angry or screaming - so maybe the chocolate just erases the neutral zone for the intense kids, and they go straight from negative to positive and back? :wince:

Getting many kids to bed has been (relatively) easy for us, once we decided that
a) it was possible to make enough room for them to all sleep in our bed (two queen beds attached together), and
b) We'd go to bed at the same time as they did, and just get up earlier to 'get things done'.

The oldest moved out, back in, and then out again for good a while back. The second moved out at around 6 years old (he had huge fear of dark and badguys issues, sigh). The twins are still there. At this point, bedtime for the oldest is just ensuring he's brushed his teeth, and that the light goes out rather than staying on to read (shares a room with his brother). The second goes down with about the same degree of effort - teeth brushed? changed for bed? Okay, lights out! Done. (NOt that this is necessarily effortless, it isn't, but at least it is relatively minimal compared to holding a screaming toddler and trying to brush their teeth and then wrestling them to a standstill for a diaper change then trying to catch them as they try to escape the inevitable bed-and-lights-out). The twins have to be suppressed to keep them from leaping about at bedtime (they're at the peak 'jump on the bed' age), but we get them brushed up and changed, then turn out the lights and go to bed ourselves, and then suppress the wiggles and giggles for a while ('head down, please! I can't sleep when you're singing/clapping/dancing/kicking me/talking to your sister. Time to sleep, now.' Repeat, trying to not get too grumpy about it. But doesn't really take that long, just feels like it some days!), then they're all down. We did have to increase the amount of time allotted for bedtime routine, to make it sane, and ... well, we don't always end up with the amount of time we know it takes to do it smoothly. Mangle ensues.

So, Yes, I agree that it is a lot of work. But you grow the skills to maintain the level of chaos that you can manage. If you can't manage it, you start growing new skills so that you can. Some standards slide for a while, but as everyone who has had the fun of the smaller crew at times knows, the skills exceed what you had with just one, even if it feels like you're not doing as good a job with two. And then they grow a bit, and hey, presto, those skills can then apply more, and better!

As for the 'others are doing great with four, I can't manage 1' thing, seriously, one is HARD. There are no distractions, nobody else to play with, you are IT, and you're still learning everything for every age they reach. On on on on on all the time. Double-whammy if your partner is away a lot, and triple if you don't have extended family or other help.

Two (IMHO) is sometimes half of one, sometimes three times one. Usually only a little more than one, though. Four starts out (at least with the twins thing) as five or six times one, then settles to sometimes about the same as one, sometimes eight times, averaging around two times the effort, but with many greater skills, so it's EFFORT, not necessarily WORK. I do still have to learn new skills for everyone, and learn new things for the new age as the oldest hits it... but I'm much more adept at learning these things, too. Lots of practice scrambling to catch up has made me a master of finding the handholds. ;)

Yes, my brain is full. Yes, we have to be creative to figure out how to keep the entropy under control at least cyclicly (right now, the living room is awash in Bioncile and Lego debris). But I can also send them all outside to play in the yard, when that was a rarity with one - G wanted someone to play WITH, and that was me, or DH, or both of us. Now, it is the sibs, most of the time. They like to join us at our work (gardening, cooking, not so much on the cleaning - though the girls have decided that cleaning the cat box is their favorite activity and squeal with joy when a cat poops... seriously, the scoop and pour thing is BIG), but for play, they head out together as a lump, or in smaller clumps.

And for the rest of the melange/mangle/mish-mash, I'll say what I say to almost every new mom when she looks at the crew and looks at me and thinks I look like I have it together, and her pain comes out as 'how do you DO it?' - You just do it. You do it because nobody else will, because you must, even if it eats you some days. And time passes, and it gets better, and they grow more independent and don't need you so much every moment. I may look like I have it together, but that's only because you looked when it wasn't falling apart. It's observation bias - if someone sees me out with all four and I'm grumpy and not handling things well, it fits with the expectations and reads as neutral - four kids is a lot, mom just barely hanging on, normal. But people NOTICE when I have all four out and things are running smoothly and gracefully, everything clicking and shining bright. But wait. In 20 minutes, it will have changed - the kids being kind, helpful, and considerate to each other and me in aisle 1 are grabbing chocolates and crying while rolling around on the floor in aisle 12. I'm calm and thoughtful and down at their level in aisle 5, and in aisle 12 my jaw is clenched and I'm trying to find a way to back out of some stupid parenting trick I've just leapt into because I couldn't think of something better. I'm only together some of the time. I was totally flattened by parenting one child. Two was a joy with effort, four totally flattened me again... but four is also a joy, and gets easier the older they get (at least physically... my brain is still full!). I wouldn't change it, though. I wouldn't even swap out the twins for sequential singletons.

For those thinking of three or more, and still on 'one hard one', it's not insane to dream or to go for it. Three was what we wanted, too. We always considered the option of four as possible, but something to be decided as we went. We got four without asking, instead. NO regrets. With one we hit the wall, hard, splat. We adjusted, changed priorities, rearranged our lives and identities, and then the rest were not so life-altering. Still scary, still challenging, but not quite the degree of ouch we had with one.

(And that's not to say you should have more if you don't know you want to - onlies have some real advantages my kids won't get!)

[Shelley]

Hedra -- thanks for that last comment especially. My daughter will probably be an only at this point, and I still feel some sadness about that. I've had a couple of late first-trimester missed miscarriages and am pushing 40, and have come to the hard conclusion that I am not willing to put my heart and body on the line again. It's been difficult to adjust to this, especially since in part it's my own decision to STOP (and to be frank, always did have the ambivalence a lot of people are describing about adding a second, although obviously that's what we were going for). Hearing that this too will be OK is most welcome :)

[flea]

Data point: my two are 2 years 11 months apart, and now 4.5 and 21 months. Two was a breeze for me, for one BIG reason - I WOH, and Casper, my older, was in day care all day while I was home on maternity leave with Dillo. So all I had to do was take care of one newborn, which I was surprised to find out I already knew how to do! After day care mr. flea took over with the baby while I gave a huge chunk of time to Casper, which was a big help in managing her transition.

Things have been and still are often logistically harder with two; there's always someone who wants or needs something, and the thing I hate most is when they literally physically fight over me. But all the mental adjustment of motherhood that was so hard was accomplished with Casper (poor Casper), and Dillo is a pretty laid-back little dude.

A note on napping: Casper doesn't nap and hasn't since the baby was born. Our weekend routine is to put Dillo down for his nap, put a movie on for Casper (she is an avid film-watcher) and I can sometimes grab a nap myself on the couch while he sleeps and she watches. We often make a production of it and rent a new movie, which she is happy to watch both Saturday and Sunday (this is usually our only movie-watching for the week, so I don't feel too guilty).

[Bobbi]

I'm late to the party, but here's my data. I'm a firm believer in the "it's got everything to do with the temperament of the child" school, but the parents have a lot of influence on how that goes...

I have 4 kids. Oldest is a girl and was a dream baby. I was the perfect age to start parenting and have a fabulous involved husband. She slept like a dream, nursed like she was born to (not that it wasn't tough for ME in the beginning, but she knew what she was doing) and was a very laid back baby.
Thing 2 (son) was born 3 wweeks shy of 2 years later. Cue screaming. He was tough tough tough. Didn't eat well, didn't sleep well, screamed (scary movie screamed) all.the.time. In retrospect, I should have had him checked out more, but the doc said he was fine. Probably could have benefitted from some chiropractic care, could have tried a lot of things, but that's all hindsight. At the time, I was desparate. DH and I tag-teamed him like crazy, so at leas twe had an every other night thing going, but man. He was trying. And I worried that he was disrupting thing 1's schedule's, but she was pretty oblivious. I was miserable. I thought 2 kids was HELL.
We waited 4 years before having thing 3. I was TERRIFIED of being outnumbered, but she was back to dream baby. It was almost like she wasn't here - that's how much of a non-issue slipping her into our well established routine ended up being.
Thing 4 was born 19 months later (not getting any youger, so lets just get it over with...) which has been a tough age spread, even though he's an easy baby. When I found out he was a "he" I was scared he'd be like my older son, but we've really had none of that. But I have 2 "babies" so it's been tough on thing 3, who was in effect, almost like an only, in that she had all my attention all day, and now she doesn't.
All this to say, I found going from 1 to 2 really tough. But adding more has not been. I'm sure some of the toughness of going to 2 had to do with our worry about affecting our oldest. Had we let go a bit and stop stressing so much, it may have worked out differently. I say that now when I can hardly remember that ENTIRE year. But when I think about the fact that he didn't sleep through the night until he was 4, I know a lot of it is just how he is.

Not sure that was helpful, but it's our story. My advice is to take things as they come and deal with one at a time the best way you can for your family. Because honestly - a lot is a crap shoot and luck...there's not much you can do to influence the outcome. I still get stressed and feel isolated - we don't have any "help" - no sisters, grandparents, family, who are near, and our circle of friends is spread wide enough that it's difficult to help each other. But my husband seriously rules and we are a good team and communicate well with each other. That's the key to my sanity sometimes...

[Mandy]

I have a three month old and a three year old.

What? Sorry, infertility makes me pause at moments when I say or type something like that and stare in awe. Because, miraculously, I can enjoy it a bit this time.

My pp period after my daughter (the three year old) was so hard. I had ppd and didn't know it, nor did anyone around me see it. She was a tough baby on top of that - terribly colicky, a petite baby who ate all the time but didn't gain much weight, etc etc. bleh. I felt terribly in love with her but also horribly guilty for begging, praying and paying lots of money to get this baby and I wasn't enjoying her.

This time around I told my OB I wasn't leaving the hospital without an antidepressant, just in case. As it turns out his birth followed months of preterm labor, I tore from stem to stern, hemorraghed, he had a bit of trouble breathing at the beginning but then we thought we were good. Then he got pneumonia at 12 days and almost died.

He recovered from that, we got his circ done and he almost needed a blood transfusion from all the bleeding (not kidding). Then there's the uterine infection I fought for months, the dr's didn't believe there was anything left but lo and behold they "got it all out" on march 27th.

I'm going back to the doctor for horrible pain and fevers today.

This time around, the experience has been dampered by all of the stress, not feeling well, him almost dying, me almost dying, etc.

BUT. He's an easier baby in other ways. He smiles way more than she did. He's more easily soothed, eats more (but less often) gains weight, and at three months old he's sleeping so much better than she did that it amazes me. I'm convinced a lot of my depression was due to lack of sleep during my daughter's infancy.

As for whether the other shoe is going to drop - if I stop and think about it I am too, but part of me figures maybe part of this is payback for my daughter's rough time, or the other thigns we have going on. I mean, if he was as hard a baby as she was, I'd be really on the edge I think.

Maybe his teething phases will be worse, or he'll spend his teenage years tormenting me, but all I can do is try to enjoy this now and worry about that stuff if it happens.

And that's not just the zoloft talking. Because I've been able to stop taking it.

[hedra]

@Shelly, I sometimes have some sadness about having to move the kids to a non-tuition-based (public) school, JUST because we have more than one (or two). So... yeah, I'm aware of the attention, time, and financial deficit we produced by adding siblings. There's so much more available to experience when it can be afforded by time, energy, and money. Those aren't bad things. I don't regret having four, but I am definitely aware of what we cannot do, and what we do either sporadically or half-assed as a result. I hope you enjoy the benefits immensely. (Really. It will make me feel better if I know that others with 'just' one kid are really getting into what they can do with their one. Balances the world, for me.)

[Katherine]

My daughter is ten weeks old, and is my first, but my husband's third. My stepkids live with us full time, so I basically have three kids. My daughter is the kind that you just can't help but feel smug about- she's cute, she eats well, my milk came in on day three and she gained two pounds in two weeks, and she sleeps through the night. Last night from 11:30 to 7. I think I might have rolled over once to nurse (co sleeping FTW). And she is the easiest baby. I have to haul her all over Creation (take my husband to work, take the kids to school, go to the store, come home, clean house dick around the internet, go get kids, go get husband, come home, start supper, start homework, eat supper, finish homework, read books, take baths, and go to bed. And she loves car rides as long as she isn't hungry so I just have to make sure she's nursed right before we go. I'm still exclusively nursing. She's started to smile and look cute.

And my stepkids? Love her, and they love me for making her and giving them another sister. Honestly, things are ten times better now than they were when I was pregnant. I'm a "real mom" now and my authority is much more respected.

[Dawn]

Mollyball: Thanks! I feel like I'm not alone. My girls are 4 years apart (almost to the day) and we had the everybody crying moment on Saturday night when the older one started screaming that she wanted ice cream and woke up the 5 month old, who then started screaming too.

As far as getting two to bed, I sit on my bed, nurse the baby and have the older one lay down next to me. When the older is asleep, I take the baby and lay her down in another room, then I move the older to her bed. Crazy, but it works for me.

Mine aren't so much rageballs as they are raging lunatics. My older daughter loves the baby soooo much that I can't leave the baby unattended on the floor to so much as pee, because I'll peek my head out the bathroom door and see the older one standing over her and jumping up and down because "she likes it, Mama." When the older one goes to bed at night, the baby starts to vocalize and screech, which is incredibly comical, because we think she thinks that there is supposed to be talking all the time, and so she's just doing her part.

That said, the younger one is a much more easygoing baby in that she actually sleeps (the older one still fights going to sleep and used to pull on her hair as an infant to keep herself awake) and naps with some regularity (I never knew what the pediatrician was talking about until now). On the other hand, she goes from 0-60 in about 1 second when she's mad!

To paraphrase what hedra said above, for me, it goes easy, hard, fun, HARD, easy, easy, HARD, crazy, easy, and so on, with a definite flavor of tired throughout.

For the people who mentioned it, I definitely found that the first couple weeks post partum with the second were easier than the last few weeks of being pregnant with a preschooler.

[Mommy-O]

My daughter was just about to turn 3 when my son was born and he is now 4 months old. This time around has definitely been easier except that my son has had 3 colds to date and my daughter didn't get sick until she started daycare at 10 months. Totally different dealing with a snotty, coughing infant.

At first I thought things were easier because we'd already been through it once so we were less anxious this time and didn't freak out when he cried because we could meet his needs quicker due to experience. But I am realizing that my son is just really easy going and likes to sleep which helps a lot. He loves his baby carrier which makes getting around much easier and he likes the stroller and car as long as we keep moving.

It helps that my daughter is in preschool 2 days a week so I have one on one time with the baby.

The hardest part is the days we can't get out of the house. I find 4 - 6 months difficult because they can't sit or crawl yet but they are so interested in everything and are completely dependent on us for exploring and don't want to be put down.

So far we haven't seen any signs of resentment from our daughter towards her brother. If anything I think she resents me for monopolizing him. Our biggest challenge has been teaching her the sounds he makes when he doesn't want any more hugs and kisses.

For me, I really miss my daughter and I think I sometimes resent my husband for being able to spend so much time with her. Although my son isn't very demanding, I am still surprised when it is the end of the day and I realize that I haven't spent much time with my daughter and wonder where the time went.

[Lila]

Thank you to DC Ranger and others for their honesty about debating having a second child. I always thought I'd have three kids! Then I had one. And it has been an extraordinarily stressful time, as she's required medical attention, didn't sleep well for a very long time, etc...as she gets older there are many wonderful moments of joy, but so often I also feel like I am too tired, too frustrated, too overwhelmed to be a decent parent. So much of the first year was raw painful exhaustion and stress and tears, and my marriage has struggled because of it. I am constantly torn thinking of the joy I had growing up with siblings, and wishing that for my child, but then recollecting the only way I survived some of the early days with baby was gritting my teeth and thinking, "I'll only have to do this once...I can get past this...".

[Charisse]

@Mandy, just some hugs!! Hang in there.

[Jac]

I just wanted to thank everyone for their comments. I only have one DS (almost 7 months). He has been a joy the last couple months but the first 4.5 months were horrendous. My marriage is only just beginning to recover now, and I honestly wondered at times whether it would. I always wanted a big family (3+). I still do and I have been wondering if I am crazy - whether I would be risking all the joy I have now. I guess the best thing is, even with the "bad" stories, no one has written that they regret having a second.

I find this site to be such an amazing support whenever things are on my mind. So thank you all.

[Sarah]

@Lila -- I did that too in the early days! ie gritting my teeth and thinking "I'll only have to do this once...". It made me laugh to see you write that. I think a lot of people feel the same way, and then at some point in the future you decide it's all worth while and feel you could go through it again. Or not. We'll see :)

[amama]

2 kids 20 months apart. youngest is 7 months.
its friggin' hard.
i had the happy glow (excitement of new life, hormones, very welcoming older child) at beginning especially when husband was home while i recovered from c-section. but poop hit the fan shortly thereafter. i think it was the realization that 1 kid is just a breeze: you are still relatively free to travel, eat out, etc. 2 kids just makes everything so much more 'domestic'. don't know if that makes sense. i started having anxiety attacks as i did the daycare drop-off and pick up for eldest...kind of felt like the next 10 years of life would only be me shuttling kids to various activities - no time for me!!
now that baby is getting older i see that yes i will get a break one day.
also it has helped to take each day one at a time. one day can be HORRIFIC the next absolutely lovely (like today - hello spring!).
also with the second i know that it all goes by quickly and that helps me appreciate even the toughest of times.

[hedra]

@amama, that 'oh heck, there goes my life' thing is what we had with the first.

My mom calls what you had with your first 'being a couple with a baby/child' - you can tuck them under your arm and carry on, but no major changes to life or identity. At some point, usually by child three, you HAVE to stop and adapt and center your life differently. It changes things. But it isn't bad, it's just different, and takes some time to adapt to.

I'm kind of glad we hit the wall with one, because then two was easier. The moms I know who breezed along with one and maintained their lives really struggled when they hit the wall on child two, because they now had even MORE assumptions about life that had to change, and two kids to manage while they did so. For at least one of them, there was a big ego hit, too, because she'd assumed that somehow she was a better mom because she hadn't had to change her life, hadn't struggled with her identity (much), didn't revolve around her kids, yadda yadda. She was a bit arrogant about the whole deal, and then she had the second, and WHAM. She actually thought somehow she didn't have the skills for two and decided that three was RIGHT OUT, since two was SO hard. Really, I suspect the reverse was true - she had HUGE skills (plus lucking out in the baby department!), which was why one was so easy, and she didn't hit the wall until two. As hard as the transition was with two, I suspect she'd have had a blast with three... but they were absolutely certain that three would be as much harder as two was from one. I wonder sometimes if that's not why so many people stop at two - they think the third will be harder, still, if they hit the wall on the second.

Ah, well. Many paths to the same destination, I guess! Most of us have to adapt and adjust and submerge our personal goals for a while in parenthood, and then we re-emerge again later. IMHO, I think we re-emerge with a lot more wisdom, skill, and perspective, too. And that's not a bad thing to wait for.

[Heather]

These comments have been so incredibly helpful- my due date for #2 is quickly approaching and my eldest will be 21 months. She was a difficult baby (and now a high-needs toddler-- still doesn't sleep well, wants to be held constantly, etc.) and I am terrified- how will I handle two? Perhaps because she's been so difficult to raise, we have a very close bond and I am sad/worried about what will happen to that once baby arrives. I really relate to Mommy-O's comment about missing her daughter. Geez- PPD seems so close! I also really appreciate people's comments about their marriages... I thought husband and I had a bullet-proof relationship before eldest came along but, man, some days I'm not sure our relationship will ever recover from it all. I'm constantly resentful of him and wanting him to do more, be more, etc. etc. It eats you alive. Here's to praying that #2 is a bit easier than #1 was.

[Katie]

I have two daughters: my oldest just turned three and my youngest just turned one. My second is so much easier (eats everything, sleeps through the night, etc). I feel lucky most of the time that she is not needy because my first is such a "spririted" person. I am exhausted all of the time with work and the two of them. I think to myself--How in the world do people have three? My oldest started gymnastics and was horrible the other night...all the other parents were pointedly ignoring me, while my youngest was unhappy with being there. The only reason I put her in gymnastics was because I thought that she would love it (extremely energetic, jumping off of the furniture, climbing all of the time). I was so frustrated with her, and I felt like such a bad parent. I love my children, but I am so tired from taking them both anywhere that we usually stick to G'ma's or the yard. Every couple of months, I meet up with some friends who have three children apiece, and I think, Wow--how have they not lost one? And then two doesn't seem too overwhelming...until I go back to work on Monday. It is wonderful when they play together or when the oldest helps the youngest out with something.

[katie]

Also, Heather, I know how you feel with the husband...it is never enough, whatever they do, because they seem so free still to do things with their friends. I feel like the babysitter a lot, and I am extremely resentful of that. I have just reached a point where I cannot be super woman. I tried, but then I was so tired that I was forgetting words. When do I get to be like the other women I know and stop being upset every time he goes to play golf? (Probably when I get to spend all of the money I want on new clothes).

[hedra]

Katie, the jumping around thing for us was sensory integration issues. IT's been helped by a) understanding what helps downgrade the behavior urgency, and b) home sensory diet. Oh, and for B, it was horseback riding lessons - he needed large motor stimulation to stop the leaping about thing (or at least take it to a dull roar). A half-hour of riding once a week seems to really satisfy a lot of that need, where I think there might not have been enough weight-bearing in the gymnastics (though we definitely considered it!). Posting, muscling a stubborn pony into listening (beginner lessons involve the lazy/stubborn ponies mostly), holding challenging positions (jump seat with arms extended, say), etc., really fill up that need very nicely.

As for the frustration with the DH, has he ever handled the kids for longer than 2-3 days? If not, see if you can schedule a vacation for yourself, and leave them with him. It has a strange effect - they start understanding how hard the work is (better if they can do the daily work every day for 2-3 weeks, but barring them quitting and staying home, that's harder to get). Good luck with helping him understand...

[Christina]

I'm adding my resounding support for the "temperament" theory. My first was eerily good and my second was a doozie. I won't even go into it for fear of having flashbacks.