Q&A: husband with PTSD flashback scaring kids

Wow, great comments from yesterday. Here's a question I've been sitting on for a few weeks, not knowing how to answer, because I'm afraid my answer would be too informed by my own experience. But yesterday's post and comments made me realize I should just put it out there, biases and all.

Commenter Jan writes:

"Many years ago, when we were first married, my husband was in a special forced arm of the military.  Not Navy SEALs, but along those lines.  He saw and did some things that have haunted him (I first typed 'me' there -- freudian slip much?) for ages, but have, in the last few years (since we had kids, probably no coincidence) caused him to experience some pretty serious PTSD.

He occasionally experiences flashbacks (he experiences them as nightmares, which makes him avoid sleep), periods of depression, irritability and periods of altered mental state (picture an angry -- but never violent -- drunk).  Stress, physical or emotional, exacerbates these problems.

I coped very poorly with all this at first, having my own little meltdown each and every time.  I'm getting better.  And the older my kids get, the more I know that I have to keep it together for them.

And there's the tricky part.  Our daughter will be 4 soon; she is old enough to be freaked out when Daddy isn't behaving right.  Our son is just past 2 and he's still pretty oblivious.

Up until recently, we've been sort of operating under the agreement that if I think he's Having An Episode, he will respect that (he isn't always aware of it, and usually denies it) and go into another part of the house.  This works for the kids.  I tell them Daddy isn't feeling good and has gone to bed and they seem to accept that.

He is in counseling and just lately things seems to be coming to the front more often.  A lot of his troubles seem to stem from being really afraid that if I knew all of what he did, I would reject him.  I think in order for him to get better, he needs to not be 'sent away' every time he gets into what is a really raw emotional state.

Last night was really awful.  I got home with the kids and he was just a basket case.  I did the back and forth as best I could (dinner for the kids:  nuts and a banana on the couch in front of a Tivo'd episodes of Sesame Street), but my daughter woke up crying in the night and had a very difficult time at drop-off this morning at daycare.  She told me that she doesn't want Daddy to come home for dinner tonight, that she likes it when he  has a meeting and doesn't come home until after she's in bed.  He didn't do anything 'scary' (as I said, he's never violent) but he did sob uncontrollably and that's not something any of us are used to seeing and there's definitely anger in his voice when he's talking.

How do I balance his need for me, as his wife, against their need for harmony? (I realize this leaves out completely what I need, which I generally try not to do, but isn't what I'm struggling with right now).  I sort of think that for him there's no way but through this sort of hurt and he just doesn't have it in him to go there without me.  And these kind of breakthroughs aren't exactly something that can be scheduled.  But I can't stand to see my daughter being afraid of her daddy, either.

We've just moved to a new neighborhood, so I don't know any neighbors well enough to show up on their doorstep at 6 p.m. with my kids, especially not without  background information that is really private for my husband.

So what now?  The only thing completely off the table for me is leaving him, temporarily or permanently. I'm not going to do that, for a billion reasons that I won't defend; suffice it to say I've thought it through and made my decision."

Wow is there a lot to deal with in this email! I just want to express my sympathies to you and your husband and your kids. That he had to do that stuff, and that it's continuing to haunt him."(Also, I'm imagining your husband as completely hot--a cross between the heroes of all those ex-mercenary romance novels and Sayid from Lost.)

As soon as I read the email I shot back a recommendation to Jan for EMDR, which is a kind of therapy used for victims of violence or stress and anything that causes PTSD. EMDR uses specific eye movements to unlock and get the stress out of your body. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but an extremely down-to-earth and scientific friend of mine used it to get past some incest issues and ended up training to be an EMDR therapist herself, and that's how I heard about it initially. And it makes complete sense to me that trauma stays in the body (talk to any New Yorker or DC-ite in mid-September), so releasing it physically will help you release it completely. The best link explaining it that I could find was here, but I have no knowledge of this particular EMDR therapist and am not specifically recommending her: http://www.emdr-therapy.com/

Now, here's the part that's hard for me to separate out from my own experience: The role you should take in protecting your kids. You say that your husband isn't violent, but is scary. I grew up in a house with a seriously clinically depressed father, and he had episodes in which he acted strange and scary.

My mom always tried to defend us (he usually didn't target us, unless we just happened to be in the way of whatever it was he was doing at the time, and then it was just more of a "get out of my way" thing). But my mom, who had no experience with mood disorders and is a real tiger mama, made her priority protecting us.

I think that in the long run, she ended up short-changing her relationship with my dad, and the protection she offered us didn't matter a whole lot. Let me explain the back end of that first. My dad, despite having a serious mood disorder, is one of the sweetest, most loving, funniest, nerdiest, most curmudgeonly, interesting people I know. And it was obvious to my brother (3 years younger) and me that he loved us. A lot. And most of the time he was really interested in us (we were programming BASIC by age 4) and sweet and caring.

So his episodes were just these strange episodes. Not a regular, usual thing that really seemed like part of him, if you can understand that. I sometimes talk about the parenting relationship as a long conversation with your kids, and to me, that conversation with my dad has always been a really funny, safe conversation. Just sometimes he had these outbursts, and then you knew to just leave the room for an hour. (By the time I was 12, we'd just say "Did you take your meds this morning?" when he was scary.)

I think that my mom trying to protect us made her too responsible for our mental states and decreased the connection she felt with my dad. What's happened is that I've ended up being the translator between them (because I've had depression so I understand my dad's thought patterns--I'm "fluent" in mood disorders, I guess), which is not a problem for me but I think is a problem for them.

So that's my bias. I think you need to sit and look at this situation critically, from your kids' point of view, and figure out if, to them, it feels like an abusive situation (and I know there are plenty of commenters who could describe what that feels like, and I'm so sorry about that) or like a loving situation with some scary episodes. If it's the latter, then you probably should talk to them about what happens when Daddy has a daymare (or whatever you want to call it) and teach them that it has nothing to do with them, and they should just go to another room if things are scary.

Also, it might be worth a few sessions with a therapist for the two of you together to really talk about the fact that you love him as he is, and that you're not leaving. But that you need him to make a commitment to going to a certain place in the house when he's having an episode, so that he can have his raging place and the kids can have their safe space.

I'm thinking that by having you lay out the boundaries while this is in process, you aren't responsible for everyone's feelings, but are helping everyone be able to be safe.

What does anyone else think? I don't read the situation as abuse, but if you do, please say so. And since Jan's kids are so young, do you have any suggestions to help her make them feel safe while not having to run interference. I wish the EMDR would work in one session and this whole problem would go away for them!

Comments

[Mommie Mentor]

Jan,
You asked how to get your DH to take the help that's available to him. There are times in life when people are willing to do something for their children that they are unwilling to do for themselves.
You may need to approach it that way. He loves his children and wants to be present and available for them. Focusing on that aspect for getting help may motivate him?

[Salexuel]

My heart goes out to you Jan, and to all the other posters who can relate to this type of situation. I'm posting only because my mom is an EMDR practitioner, as well as a psychotherapist, and although she's out of town at the moment, she's coming to visit me beginning late Sunday. I will do my best to post on Monday her recommendations/suggestions for how you might identify an EMDR practitioner in your area, or other resources for accessing EMDR. Moxie - I'm assuming the comments will be open that long? If not, please provide some advice on how to post the info. Hugs.

[pnuts mama]

hey jan-

i also wanted to support your marriage in this situation- i agree, the for better for worse part is a vow i take pretty seriously as well. would these folks who suggest you leave your marriage say the same thing if he had cancer? how is mental illness any different (obviously not if it's a case of abuse or criminal behavior, etc.) i would say that if i had any indication that you were in an abusive marriage, or that your children were in real and present danger, or that your husband was exploiting the situation to manipulate you/the system, any of those things (for example) would be a red flag to me that perhaps you needed some intense couples counseling and should be at least considering a trial separation. but so far i haven't read any of that. so there's that.

as far as his unwillingness to approach the VA on this for help/support- have you been watching any of the special reports on abcnews done by bob woodruff reporting on the amt of head injuries like the one he sustained while reporting over there? last week there was a new study released that over 1 in 5 returning vets from this war have some type of mental injury/issue related to their service- http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4678890 perhaps this could be an opening for you to discuss getting him some treatment through the VA. they owe it to him, period.

i understand that this could be an issue of his not wanting to look weak or emasculated, etc. in front of fellow military, but in my recent experience of knowing someone who just did inpatient (and it is small-group inpatient therapy) treatment, a good percentage of the men in at the same time are VIETNAM vets- just now finally getting the help they've needed for the past 30-40 years. maybe that could be another angle for you- rage at a system that has failed the people it recruited to fight for them. how unjust it has been to not provide needed services for those who have needed it.

i know these inpatient facilities are for 30-60-90 day treatment programs, and are located all across the country. they also have long waiting lists, but perhaps could provide the safe place and like-minded group of peers who could help him through this. if nothing else, start googling/calling your VA and finding out about support group meetings for him and/or you for PTSD.

and when it gets rough, remember that there is a giant group of us here who is holding you tight in our circle, sheltering you through the storm. take care, girl.

[Laura]

I read through the comments and it's so great to see such support - you are a very strong woman, Jan and don't forget that!

I will make this short - but I cannot stress enough about the benefits of EMDR therapy. Do whatever you can to learn more about it and try to get your husband to at least "try" it - or talk with an EMDR therapist. I don't have any first-hand experience with it but I do have a friend who is an EMDR therapist and it is amazing. I know each person and situation is different, but according to her, it doesn't usually take a very long time to see results which is great for someone who may be hesitant to try it! My heart goes out to you! Hang in there :)

[Amy]

I meant to post this yesterday but got busy... not sure anyone is still reading.

My father was an alcoholic--more of the all-day drinker rather than a binge drinker. So, I suspect I saw him drunk much more than I knew but just assumed that it was his normal personality. I do recall a scary episode, however, which made me think of Jan's kids. I must have been about 8 years old; my step-mom put me to bed before my dad got home, but I was still awake when he got home. He was loud, angry, and irrational. They had been on vacation and still had the lamp next to his chair on a timer, and the light turned off just after he sat down to watch TV. He flew into a rage about the light, and I can remember my step-mom telling him it was no big deal, but he continued to rage about it. It was so scary to hear my dad out of control (I was in my bed, so didn't *see* any of this). I remember being terrified. Parents are supposed to be in control, rational, safe. And my father didn't sound like any of those things. I'm not sure I ever trusted him again.

So, I can understand why Jan's little girl is frightened. Parents really are superheroes to their kids. Kids don't understand that parents are people with all their problems, emotions, fears, etc. I think therapy for Jan's kids is a very good idea. They need to be able to talk about their own fears as well as be reassured that dad can still be trusted... and that he can still be their superhero.

[hedra]

On the sad thing, my mom 'caught' me being sad when I should have (from a different perspective) felt angry or scared. She outright told me that I needed to be careful not to mask anger or fear with sorrow - just because I ALSO felt sad didn't mean I shouldn't feel angry or afraid, as well. And that feeling sad often felt safer than angry or scared, but it wasn't really healthy to cling to the sad when I deserved to be powerful in my anger, or needy in my fear.

I can still vividly remember the conversation. I think I was maybe 5 years old. It was really important, and helped me recognize that yes, when I had mixed feelings, I tended to cling to the one that was safest, and pretend the others didn't exist. I tried to believe that there could only be one feeling at a time, even. But I knew that wasn't true, because, well, my mom told me it wasn't true. It took years and years for that to develop fully, but it was an important seed to plant.

[Salexuel]

I tried to post this yesterday, but for some reason it didn't take. I don't know if this is too late or not, but I wanted to offer that my mom is an EMDR practitioner and psychotherapist, and is coming to visit starting late Sunday. If it would be helpful, I could ask her what she recommends on finding an EMDR practitioner in a certain geographic area and/or what other EMDR resources might be available, and post those here on Monday.
Moxie - I'm not sure how long you keep the comments open and/or if folks come back after the original day of the post. Let me know if I should post that info elsewhere, e-mail to you directly, etc.
Hugs to all.

[liz]

@ Jan "He has this strong "it's my problem" thing going on that makes him unwilling to go to the VA, for example, to take advantage of their resources"

Maybe you can say, "When you don't get the help you need and use all the available resources to do it, you make it the family's problem."

[Jenny F. Scientist]

Jan: My mother is a contractor with the VA, doing evaluations of vets. She meets a lot of people who are all tough-guy 'I can handle this myself', but somehow manages to persuade them to at least think about it (disability later, etc., etc., plus she looks like their grandma). I think the military's doing a LITTLE better this time around at least. I don't know if there's a good way to get him there, but yeah, there are a lot of resources your husband isn't using. I hope he can find some buddies to talk to- either through the VA or from old friends.

[effective nancy]

As someone who's suffered with PTSD (but from a single traumatic event that happened to me, vs. how I imagine military service must cause it), I can only imagine how Jan's husband might feel. From my experience, I must agree with the previous posters who've said that bad therapy is worse than no therapy--I saw a recommended psychologist for three sessions before we mutually fired each other and I roughed it, alone. I suppose EMDR would have been a good idea, and might still be...

What I can offer is that spatial relationships and physical contact were important cues for my triggers, and that in fact Jan and the kids might have ways to help beyond getting out of the space "when Daddy's sad." For example, one of my triggers was to have someone come up behind me or tailgate me in the car, such that having my back to the wall, literally, would often be the best way to keep from triggering at vulnerable times. People who knew about my PTSD learned not to approach me silently from behind, and that alone made a big difference in my feeling able to manage my anxiety. For me, too (and this might be part of the nature of my initial trauma), physical touch was both a trigger and a comfort. Perhaps hugs and cuddles at non-trigger times from the kids, and possibly therapeutic massage at regular intervals, could offer some help. I think that the body stores up a memory of tension that can require outside help to dissipate.

[Yet another anonymous]

My dad was an alcoholic who was never violent to us but could be mean, unpredictable and the like. We never knew what "dad" we would come home to as he could be sweet and loving or hateful and aggressive. And as a result I lived a very traumatized childhood and never wanted to invite friends over for fear of what might happen and as I got older, never wanted to come home. My mom tried to run interference but at some point the problem is obvious to all and we were just left to deal with it ourselves. I know I would have benefitted from counseling. My father got into treatment once I was in college. But, yes I am still bitter about what a lot of my childhood was like.

Now as an adult who works with vets, I realize my father has classic PTSD from his wartime experiences. Please encourage your husband to check out one of the VA's Vet Centers. These are not affiliated with the VA Medical Centers and they are free to combat vets. This means no insurance and no notation in a permanent record. I hope you have one of these centers near you.

You MUST deal with this now. Why don't you get your husband to read these comments or share with him what your daughter has said? And this may be way out of line but I feel like at some point you may have to choose between your children's emotional needs and your husbands if something doesn't give. I hope not.

[Jan]

So I'm still reading, even if nobody else is.

@Yet another anonymous -- This:

{{We never knew what "dad" we would come home to as he could be sweet and loving or hateful and aggressive.}}

is a perfect description of what really drove me over the edge. I began to absolutely dread coming home, especially if he'd been alone for part or all of the day.

Things are much much better now than they were. The episodes are pretty infrequent now (this has a lot to do, I think, with him getting full-time employment where he's busy and around other people all day instead of self-employed and home alone a lot) and I think there was a real breakthrough the other night when he finally 'confessed his sins' to me.

I will continue to press for EMDR and some of the other coping skills. Regular exercise is (of course) good for him, but too much can be a trigger and he is, by nature, kind of an in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pound guy, so it's a delicate balance.

In fact, the whole thing is a delicate balance. I have tried asking him to see how important it is for the kids for him to get well, but I also know one of his big fears is that I care more about the kids than I do about him and it's easy to reinforce that with a request like that. I want to help him get what he needs, but I also know his self-esteem is in the toilet about his inability to "fix himself" so I'm sensitive to the possibility that he will see my taking over as more proof that he can't do things for himself.

@pnuts mama: I heard those news stories, too, and it makes me incredibly sad. I think the military is trying harder to help guys who have been through trauma, but I also know without a doubt that they are giving up too soon -- I think my husband's delayed reaction is the norm rather than the exception.

Also, thanks for this:

{{and when it gets rough, remember that there is a giant group of us here who is holding you tight in our circle, sheltering you through the storm. take care, girl.}}

That really does help.

[KSB]

I want to touch on a few points. I'm not comfortable sharing my own story but I'll share some of what I know/have learned along the way.

1. EMDR was very much in vogue a few years ago. After a lot of research, it was determined that the "old fashion" part of EMDR (basically, talking about a traumatic experience repeatedly in a safe enviroment) was what worked, not the tapping or tones. That's probably why his therapist is not familiar with it. I would not worry about that.

2. There is nothing you can do to make him take advantadge of the help offered. The longer you believe that and take responsibility for it, the longer he will stay sick. If for no other reason, coming to terms with that is a good reason to get into therapy yourself.

3. Deciding not to leave someone, no matter what, is not helpful to them. He needs to know that you will not let him hurt his children, including mentally. That does not mean divorce or even seperation but it does mean putting up and maintaining boundaries concerning the children's welfare.

4. Your daughter is simply not old enough to be making decisions about how much/in what way she will or will not "help" her father. You and your husband are the adults; you make decisions for her. She doesn't need to see this or be a part of it except in processing what is unavoidable in seeing as they live in the same house. For that reason alone, she needs to have access to therapy as well.

I cannot offer you a quick fix but I can tell you that maintaing your mental health and your children's is the best thing you can do for your husband, even though he or you may not recognize it at the time.

I wish you all the very best of luck.