Q&A: husband with PTSD flashback scaring kids

Wow, great comments from yesterday. Here's a question I've been sitting on for a few weeks, not knowing how to answer, because I'm afraid my answer would be too informed by my own experience. But yesterday's post and comments made me realize I should just put it out there, biases and all.

Commenter Jan writes:

"Many years ago, when we were first married, my husband was in a special forced arm of the military.  Not Navy SEALs, but along those lines.  He saw and did some things that have haunted him (I first typed 'me' there -- freudian slip much?) for ages, but have, in the last few years (since we had kids, probably no coincidence) caused him to experience some pretty serious PTSD.

He occasionally experiences flashbacks (he experiences them as nightmares, which makes him avoid sleep), periods of depression, irritability and periods of altered mental state (picture an angry -- but never violent -- drunk).  Stress, physical or emotional, exacerbates these problems.

I coped very poorly with all this at first, having my own little meltdown each and every time.  I'm getting better.  And the older my kids get, the more I know that I have to keep it together for them.

And there's the tricky part.  Our daughter will be 4 soon; she is old enough to be freaked out when Daddy isn't behaving right.  Our son is just past 2 and he's still pretty oblivious.

Up until recently, we've been sort of operating under the agreement that if I think he's Having An Episode, he will respect that (he isn't always aware of it, and usually denies it) and go into another part of the house.  This works for the kids.  I tell them Daddy isn't feeling good and has gone to bed and they seem to accept that.

He is in counseling and just lately things seems to be coming to the front more often.  A lot of his troubles seem to stem from being really afraid that if I knew all of what he did, I would reject him.  I think in order for him to get better, he needs to not be 'sent away' every time he gets into what is a really raw emotional state.

Last night was really awful.  I got home with the kids and he was just a basket case.  I did the back and forth as best I could (dinner for the kids:  nuts and a banana on the couch in front of a Tivo'd episodes of Sesame Street), but my daughter woke up crying in the night and had a very difficult time at drop-off this morning at daycare.  She told me that she doesn't want Daddy to come home for dinner tonight, that she likes it when he  has a meeting and doesn't come home until after she's in bed.  He didn't do anything 'scary' (as I said, he's never violent) but he did sob uncontrollably and that's not something any of us are used to seeing and there's definitely anger in his voice when he's talking.

How do I balance his need for me, as his wife, against their need for harmony? (I realize this leaves out completely what I need, which I generally try not to do, but isn't what I'm struggling with right now).  I sort of think that for him there's no way but through this sort of hurt and he just doesn't have it in him to go there without me.  And these kind of breakthroughs aren't exactly something that can be scheduled.  But I can't stand to see my daughter being afraid of her daddy, either.

We've just moved to a new neighborhood, so I don't know any neighbors well enough to show up on their doorstep at 6 p.m. with my kids, especially not without  background information that is really private for my husband.

So what now?  The only thing completely off the table for me is leaving him, temporarily or permanently. I'm not going to do that, for a billion reasons that I won't defend; suffice it to say I've thought it through and made my decision."

Wow is there a lot to deal with in this email! I just want to express my sympathies to you and your husband and your kids. That he had to do that stuff, and that it's continuing to haunt him."(Also, I'm imagining your husband as completely hot--a cross between the heroes of all those ex-mercenary romance novels and Sayid from Lost.)

As soon as I read the email I shot back a recommendation to Jan for EMDR, which is a kind of therapy used for victims of violence or stress and anything that causes PTSD. EMDR uses specific eye movements to unlock and get the stress out of your body. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but an extremely down-to-earth and scientific friend of mine used it to get past some incest issues and ended up training to be an EMDR therapist herself, and that's how I heard about it initially. And it makes complete sense to me that trauma stays in the body (talk to any New Yorker or DC-ite in mid-September), so releasing it physically will help you release it completely. The best link explaining it that I could find was here, but I have no knowledge of this particular EMDR therapist and am not specifically recommending her: http://www.emdr-therapy.com/

Now, here's the part that's hard for me to separate out from my own experience: The role you should take in protecting your kids. You say that your husband isn't violent, but is scary. I grew up in a house with a seriously clinically depressed father, and he had episodes in which he acted strange and scary.

My mom always tried to defend us (he usually didn't target us, unless we just happened to be in the way of whatever it was he was doing at the time, and then it was just more of a "get out of my way" thing). But my mom, who had no experience with mood disorders and is a real tiger mama, made her priority protecting us.

I think that in the long run, she ended up short-changing her relationship with my dad, and the protection she offered us didn't matter a whole lot. Let me explain the back end of that first. My dad, despite having a serious mood disorder, is one of the sweetest, most loving, funniest, nerdiest, most curmudgeonly, interesting people I know. And it was obvious to my brother (3 years younger) and me that he loved us. A lot. And most of the time he was really interested in us (we were programming BASIC by age 4) and sweet and caring.

So his episodes were just these strange episodes. Not a regular, usual thing that really seemed like part of him, if you can understand that. I sometimes talk about the parenting relationship as a long conversation with your kids, and to me, that conversation with my dad has always been a really funny, safe conversation. Just sometimes he had these outbursts, and then you knew to just leave the room for an hour. (By the time I was 12, we'd just say "Did you take your meds this morning?" when he was scary.)

I think that my mom trying to protect us made her too responsible for our mental states and decreased the connection she felt with my dad. What's happened is that I've ended up being the translator between them (because I've had depression so I understand my dad's thought patterns--I'm "fluent" in mood disorders, I guess), which is not a problem for me but I think is a problem for them.

So that's my bias. I think you need to sit and look at this situation critically, from your kids' point of view, and figure out if, to them, it feels like an abusive situation (and I know there are plenty of commenters who could describe what that feels like, and I'm so sorry about that) or like a loving situation with some scary episodes. If it's the latter, then you probably should talk to them about what happens when Daddy has a daymare (or whatever you want to call it) and teach them that it has nothing to do with them, and they should just go to another room if things are scary.

Also, it might be worth a few sessions with a therapist for the two of you together to really talk about the fact that you love him as he is, and that you're not leaving. But that you need him to make a commitment to going to a certain place in the house when he's having an episode, so that he can have his raging place and the kids can have their safe space.

I'm thinking that by having you lay out the boundaries while this is in process, you aren't responsible for everyone's feelings, but are helping everyone be able to be safe.

What does anyone else think? I don't read the situation as abuse, but if you do, please say so. And since Jan's kids are so young, do you have any suggestions to help her make them feel safe while not having to run interference. I wish the EMDR would work in one session and this whole problem would go away for them!

Comments

[Kinky]

I once saw an Oprah about multiple personality disorder (this was decades ago, when the disease was hot), and the woman on the stage had MPD as a result of childhood abuse by her father. The dissociation was so severe that her husband kept their marriage certificate hanging over their bed, so he could prove to the personalities that they were married.

What was amazing was the woman's 7-year-old daughter, who understood that her mommy was sick and had a pretty matter-of-fact attitude about it. She said the worst part about it was how sad she was about what her grandfather had done to her mother. I was so impressed by this girl's intelligency, understanding, and compassion. Obviously, I was also struck by how unusual a choice it seemed to explain such sophisticated material to such a young child. But, I guess, extreme situations call for unusual measures.

I know Jan's children are younger, but I wonder if she is underestimating their capacity for empathy with Daddy. Perhaps talking about how he is hurting and scared (the underlying feelings) and teaching appropriate ways to deal with the situation would help towards a long-term solution (growing into sane, sympathetic people).

Sorry I don't have more practical help. What about asking a therapist for guidance on how to deal with the situation?

[amy]

I only have enough experience to talk about the kids. The four-year-old is old enough to need to start talking about her emotions in order for her to get the anxiety out, but she might not have the language yet. I'd look for a county or state resource in child and infant mental health - if not for direct help, then a referral to the right people. (I'm in SE Michigan, so if the original questioner wants to email me, I'll help in any way I can.)

I have anxiety and panic disorder, and my nearly four-year-old daughter has mirrored back my anxiety from the beginning. She also has texture and tactile hypersensitivity, which mostly manifests as anxiety about food. When my daughter and I started working with a social worker on the hypersensitivity, we discovered the anxiety pattern and worked primarily on that at first - giving her language and a space to talk things out, even at the age of 2.5 and 3. Now she's almost four and we're still working on it, but her anxiety is much more manageable. I'm offering this tidbit just to show that it's not too early to help a kid talk about problems and emotions.

All the best to the whole family. PTSD is an ugly, ugly thing.

[Today Wendy]

I've got no experience with this sort of thing, but I do have a suggestion. I think kids cope better with situations when they feel like they have some sort of control...or at the very least a job to do. Could you try something like sending your daughter to turn on some relaxing music...or some sort of family activity with a focus on helping your husband through this? Like...saving him a seat on the sofa and making a special snack...so that he knows he's welcome and wanted...but also free to be elsewhere? Maybe his therapist could suggest something?

I'm just thinking of this because of a post I read a while back (Swistle I think) about how the older kids each had a thing they did when the baby was crying to try and help. For me having a job to do has always been empowering.

Good luck, this sounds like a horrible situation to be working your way through.

[anon-this-time]

Counseling is good. For the kids, and for you, and for you both as a couple. Definitely talk to his therapist about how to get help for the rest of you.

My parents both had some very scary behavior things, that were come and go - one did therapy while I was a kid, the other didn't until I was a teen. It did end up being normal for me, and I learned a lot from the things that came home from therapy. But oh how I wish they had got me into counseling.

My dad also did things in the military he will never talk about (not with me anyway), and that shattered a big chunk of his soul, psyche, and stability for a very long time. It was extra rough for him because he is such a gentle-hearted person, and at the same time he willingly followed orders to do things that were not what a non-military person would consider ethical, normal, or okay. He was certain at the time that they were right, but only at that moment, for that time, as a soldier. In retrospect, especially because he had a family, they tore him in two. Two people, really - the one who could, and the one who could not, do what he did. And yet he had. I know for certain that he killed people. And I know for certain that my mother hated the military for it, not him. The training is expressly designed to make it possible for good people to do horrific things under horrific conditions. It goes outside the normal ethical boundaries, and that breaks a lot of fundamentally kind people - in part because they chose to do this, willingly and with what appears to be full mental awareness. No wonder it shatters them. Putting themselves back together without excluding the horrific things is painful. But, my dad did it. At least your DH is trying to do it NOW instead of trying to pretend he doesn't have to at all.

It may not be necessary for him to tell you what exactly happened, for you. BUT, it might be essential for him. Only he and his therapist know.

Art therapy for the 4 year old might be a big help. Talk to the counselor about how to address this with her. She needs to feel safe, and at least have a safe place to express the unsafe feelings. That doesn't mean stopping the work. It is more about starting the work for and with your kids, too.

Having grown up through the healing process, yeah, it's disturbing and scary. It isnt impossible. The more professional help you get to navigate it, the better. It is admitting that it IS scary that makes it sane.

Just like when a woman is healing from sexual abuse trauma, the therapist should recommend counseling for the woman's partner, because the process of healing can be traumatic for everyone else, too. Sme here. Dealing with his pain and your life and your kids pain and their lives and your pain and your life is too much to do without professional help.

I think you can make it work. The more you catch the issues with the kid s early, the less you'll have to catch later, when you have less control of them/their lives.

[Helen]

One thing that comes to mind is that regular talk therapy is starting to be recognized as not the best treatment for PTSD. If he's in counseling but having more issues all of a sudden, the talk therapy could actually be exacerbating it. I'm sorry I don't have a link handy, but I remember coverage of this in Salon and the New York Times when the first wave of veterans from this war started coming back. As Moxie pointed out, some people swear by EMDR. If he's not seeing a counselor highly experienced in trauma recovery, making the switch may be the way to go. A few sessions with a family counselor for the couple and maybe including the older child might help too, but if he's not receiving adequate treatment tailored to his condition, the family interaction stuff is always going to be sort of held together with duct tape and popsicle sticks, if you know what I mean.

Maybe the older child might benefit from having a specific signal to give when she's upset at the time, acknowledging those feelings on the spot rather than leaving her to bottle them up. She could put her hands over her hears or develop some other gesture. Sort of like how baby sign language helps kids who can't always express things verbally. This might be the cue to help the father move to his own area or figure out a way to reassure her. Sorry, I am no expert, just wanting to find a way to honor the daughter's feelings in all this. Having an action plan of "things we do when we are sad because daddy is sad" may give her a routine and refuge, certainly.

Good luck to this family!

[hedra]

I wanted to ditto the anxiety work at an early age. M has anxiety (so does G, though his is milder). M saw the psychologist through Early Intervention (0-3 years old), and older than that you can use the school system to do the assessment and care (low/reduced or no cost, often).

M was lucky that her anxiety was LARGELY dietary (though there's a part of it that is related to the hypermobility syndrome, strangely enough). She didn't need much support other than mommy reading some books and us learning how to deal WITH the issue rather than avoid the issue.

Which brings me to the avoiding the problem thing - moving to another part of the house is ONLY the first step. It is the automatic protective step that parents typically take. BUT, if you stop there, what it teaches is that Daddy is SO scary, this is SO dangerous, that we cannot be near or around or with him when it happens. I MUST protect you means this is something so bad that you must be protected from it. They interpret your response to their fear as 'my fear is not only valid, it's probably not fearful ENOUGH'. And then they cycle.

We'd done this with M - she freaked in social situations, so we gradually stopped GOING to social situations. We helped her avoid, and that taught her that she had every right to be scared in those situations. REALLY scared. And while protection is the first step, it's only the first step. After we take them back out of the situation, we have to teach them how to cope being in the situation.

For my kids, that has meant having a plan - 'here is what we do when ...' and when possible, a reminder or warning or walk-through of the plan in action ('we're going to be meeting some people. They're good people, we like them. If you feel uncomfortable, remember that you can come to me for help.' - etc.). And then gradually (which may be where you have to start) we went to cue-the-response during the event, instead of prep for (some kids do better with less prep, others with more - and unfortunately, you may not have much warning, so you may have to talk to a psychologist about how to structure that for YOUR child.)

Anyway, that has worked a lot. For M, also having props she can interact with helps her feel safe. It takes the attention off her, allows her a bubble of space, changes the expected dynamic. (Hers is a stuffed shark with big pointy teeth. It can be anything, though.)

Anyway, those are some things to work through. Yes, she has a right to her feelings, but she also needs some support not making the feelings seem worse than they are, and some skills-building to help her cope with the feelings. JUST having a plan for what to do (not just 'escape' but ACTIVE action) when her dad has an episode can really help the sense of control and safety in those situations.

I really feel for you and your DH, as well as your kids. My dad and brother were both in the military, and both have things they won't talk about, except with each other (and my brother, not even then, because some of what he was involved with 'didn't happen' officially, so the records and his lips are sealed for whatever the legal span is, 70 years?). Fortunately, he also did counseling while still in the Navy, and had some good tools for dealing with any issues that came up (which likely were less serious than you're dealing with, anyway).

Very best of luck to you. It's a long haul, and a painful one, but there is hope.

[heather]

I have 3 suggestions:
1. I think it would help your daughter if her dad explained the situation to her. Obviously not in great detail, but if they spend some quiet time together and he told her that sometimes Dad gets angry (or however you two decide to approach it) and needs to to cry and needs Mom to be with him. Then if he asked for her help (like Wendy said, give her a specific task to do during an episode) and emphasize that his anger is not her fault and that he loves her. I think it will be less scary for her if she hears it from Dad instead of from Mom.
2. When Dad is in a good place, spend time one-on-one with his daughter. Hopefully she will be less afraid of him if she has "good times" to think back on.
3. Instead of dropping your kids off at a neighbour's house, could you have someone come to your house to watch your kids? In my neck of the woods there are "mother's helpers", which are usually kids too young to babysit who come over to play with your kids while a parent is nearby. Perhaps you could find someone similar who's available on short notice in case of an episode.

My sympathies!

[Lisa F.]

I've heard good things about EMDR, specifically re: treatment of vets w/PTSD. can his therapist help you all as a family cope with the different pieces of this or suggest resources?

good luck & many hugs.

[caramama]

This is such a tough situation, and I wish you the best in figuring it out. I can only add my data points and thoughts, but hopefully the conselor is a specialist who can help you all through it. (I totally believe in specialists, for reasons others have mentioned.)

I grew up with a dad who had a high-stress, life-on-the-line job. There was no way he could just leave the stress of it at the door when he came home, and his stress and ability to handle his stress did affect our household. I think the hardest part as a child was feeling like I had two dads: the fun, cool, joking around dad and the one we had to walk on eggshells around because he was feeling stressed. There was no abuse at all, and we knew we were very loved as children. What was hard was feeling like it was something we did that would set him off in yelling or stomping around the house. My mom just would try to get us to not aggravate him when he was stressed, which wasn't necessarily bad, but she would also get mad at him for being so stressed, and that was noticeable.

Anyway, I say all that to tell you about what happened when we were adults. At one point, my hubby (before he was my husband) and I moved in with my parents for a month until we found an apartment. When we moved in, my dad had a talk with my now-husband and told him that he (my dad) gets really stressed out and doesn't communicate well when he is on edge. He explained that if he snapped at someone, possibly my now-husband, it wouldn't be because of anything he did. It would be because his head was somewhere else and he was stressed about something else and not to take it to heart because it wouldn't be anything my husband did.

I wish my dad or mom had told us that when we were growing up. I believe I could have understood that from a very young age, and if re-iterated I would have found that very comforting.

Even without that until I was an adult, my siblings and I all turned out fine and have a great relationship with my parents. So don't feel that what your husband is going through will ruin your childrens' relationship with him. My dad is awesome, and when he's stressed, I just roll my eyes and give him some space. Then we go out for a glass of wine.

Good luck to you!

[Amanda]

I don't have any personal experience, but I do think that you should ask the counselor about ways to better integrate ALL of Daddy with the household.

I do absolutely understand your desire to protect the kids and I think that would be my reaction as well. I hope that you can find a way to make the situation better. My heart goes out to you all.

[pnuts mama]

i almost posted anon as well but instead i'll just keep it a bit more vague.

we are currently experiencing something similar to this situation (but in many ways very different and this is also a situation in my life which is bringing me a great deal of stress so it can be hard for me to be objective) with a very very close family member. i literally am living in fear that one night we'll be seeing this as a story on the news, and there is nothing i can do about it.

their children were infant and toddler age when he came back from the current war 5 years ago so are school age now. i can say that the situation hasn't been handled well or with as much grace as you seem to be addressing it, jan, but as someone who doesn't live in the house and only rarely gets first hand observation, but lots of second-hand info, i can say with certainty that it is certainly having an effect on their kids- manifesting in many textbook ways (potty issues, school issues, lying, anger, etc.) that only seem to be getting worse. i can only imagine how it will effect them in the long-term.

he is in therapy, and they are sometimes in family therapy and couples counseling, and he's been put on and off all types of drugs, etc. as well as in-patient therapy. i will say from what i've seen and what i know in general is that the military (the VA specifically) is **extremely** overwhelmed with this specific issue currently- just as our system was unprepared to deal with the amount and kinds of physical injuries our vets would return with, the same seems to be holding true for the mentally and emotionally injured as well. add to that that some counselors are good, some aren't. some are trained for PTSD and have a great deal of background in in, some don't. and some have better credentials than others, so be aware of that. the first thing you learn in any counseling class is to know when you are out of your league/expertise and refer to someone who is a specialist- we've run across too many times in this specific experience where this hasn't happened, which is a giant red flag.

jan, i think that you are the best judge of what you think your marriage and your children need. i would say, though, that it may serve you well to consider finding a therapist for *you* who specifically deals with PTSD and their family members to give you some outside and objective perspective- which will be nearly impossible for you to do on your own. she or he should be able to help you find some type of appropriate family therapy for your children, your marriage, etc. as you all work through this. i truly send you the very best thoughts and prayers as your family goes through this. take care.

[Erin]

I was diagnosed with PTSD after working for several years in conflict zones with displaced people... Although I had a different experience than your husband (saw horrible things perpetrated, had to make tough decisions about limited resources), I experienced alot of the same issues when I returned to the US (nightmares, hypervigilance, big-time survivor guilt, etc)... Thank god my husband was able to be patient with me - it sounds like you are a fantastic wife and mother!

I have a couple of thoughts about your post - you said that alot of the issues seem to be coming out now that he is in therapy... I think the single most important thing for his healing is that he has an appropriate therapist who SPECIFICALLY deals with PTSD. Bad therapy is worse than no therapy and can be re-traumatizing. Your husband needs to be secure that he can tell this therapist anything - his worst action, his worst nightmare - and this person will not react inappropriately. I sought out a traditional psychologist initially, and it was a really bad fit - she didn't know how to handle what I had experienced at all... I ended up with a really great social worker who had worked in child protective services in NY and then as the counselor for the other social workers in CPS - although she had experience in a different potentially traumatizing situation, she was really good at helping me build skills to deal with the PTSD.

In my experience it was important that I didn't spend all my time just recounting what happened to me or what nightmare I had last night, but that I focused on what I could do in those situations to help myself. Although it was good to get some of that stuff out of my head - to say it out loud to another person and realize that they weren't going to run away screaming - I needed to build skills as well... Just recounting details made me feel powerless because I couldn't change the past. One of the most critical skills for me was learning how to stop a day/nightmare - If I didn't stop it, the nightmare would just start back up as soon as I went to sleep (or, in the daytime, as soon as I wasn't super busy), definitely leading to sleep avoidance.

I would definitely recommend some kind of therapy for your kids - even the 2 year old. I will give them a chance to process as well as, hopefully, take some of the fear out of their father's illness. If you can swing it, counseling for yourself as well - this is an inherently stressful situation and it would be good to have some support (also may help you fend off any secondary traumatization)

I will be thinking about you guys! Please email me if I can be of any assistance: ekmcclain gmailcom

[Nic]

I'm at work, don't have time to read all the comments. But I have this piece to add. The VA has some really great counselors, groups, etc for PTSD. All men, pretty much. Maybe your husband would benefit from tapping into that resource? He may have to jump through some hoops to prove he is "service connected" but most certainly he is. If you have a VSO (veterans service officer) in your town/county they can be a good resource for this, as is any VA hospital's eligibility office. I 2nd the thought of therapy for you and the kids.

[pnuts mama]

i just wanted to apologize that my post was more about me than you, jan. clearly it's something that's been affecting me but i didn't mean to take away from you're going through, so i'm sorry.

[trope]

I'm at work and don't have time to read comments, so I apologize if this is a repeat. (And I see lots of people have chimed in, which is GREAT.)
A couple things I read off this situation: first, it sounds like having your husband go away when he's having an Episode is problematic for somebody--either him or the kids or both. It would be really ideal if Jan could leave the room or leave the house with the kids, both to teach them how to remove themselves from the situation in a gentle way and to give her hubby some better signals about what behaviors are okay for the kids and what are not.
Second, his counselor needs to get involved in this family dynamic, or some family counseling might be in order, since treating PTSD and helping the parents navigate family life are two really different agendas sometimes.
Third, I know that it's just miserable to be in a new town with small kids and no close friends nearby. I don't have any new advice on making that better, though hopefully Jan is in a place where warmer weather and a friendly neighborhood will make that better over time. I just want to send hugs and support on that one. Hang in there.

[Michelle]

Is inpatient treatment totally off the table? It sounds like he needs a lot more help than you can give.

[Shandra]

I have PTSD and am multiple, and I strongly suspect both my parents have PTSD at least, so I can speak a little bit to some of that.

First I cannot agree more with "I think the single most important thing for his healing is that he has an appropriate therapist who SPECIFICALLY deals with PTSD. Bad therapy is worse than no therapy and can be re-traumatizing."

There are some people who seem to be stuck in the early 80s when PTSD was a sentence to years and years of therapy-induced flashbacks. But that does not have to be the case.

I am going to get a little harsh here but over time (not all at once or right away) your husband should be showing improvement. If not it probably is not the right therapy.

When we were in bad therapy we were horrible to live with. In good therapy although we had problems of course, the general trend was towards FEWER flashbacks, fewer off the wall triggered freakouts, and towards gaining increasing tools to deal with things before they got to that overwhelming point.

I totally agree as well with the idea that there ARE ways to stop the flashbacks and everything. It just takes a while to learn them.

But your husband should IMO be able to get there. If he is not learning grounding and breathing exercises, some kind of meditation, and exercising regularly, I would try to find out why - not making you responsible, just wondering why his support structure is not insisting on those things.

Also I know for some multiples who parent it is kind of important to keep on top of triggers. No one can predict or control all their triggers, but people can be smart enough not to (for example) watch the news around their kids if they think that some images on the news might thrust them into some dark place. If your husband is in that place (been there!) where he has an almost uncontrollable fascination with the very things that set him off, that's a boundary that might really help your family's day to day life.

I am not negating the work that it takes to get these sort of mid-range coping skills in place. But good therapy + hard work should lead there. If it doesn't, there is a need for a change. I am talking in a sort of 2-3 year timeframe here, not three months.

I don't know where you are but I know of a great PTSD therapist (military experience) in the Washington DC area, and you can find others for sure.

I echo that you need your own therapist, not just for you but to sound out these kid-related issues with as well. And the kids might benefit too from some support. Don't put yourself last on this one!

Now for the actual flashbacks and things. I think if your gut instinct really is that these episodes are damaging to your kids to witness that you do NOT have to consider your husband's feelings about it, short-term.

He is ultimately the adult, he has support, and he will get over it.

However, I don't think that sobbing, for example, is inherently harmful. I think giving your child a quick context for it might help.

I think it would be fine to say something like "daddy is very sad about something that happened a while ago. Sometimes when people are sad we can't make it all better. It is not your job to make daddy happy. But it is okay for him to be sad around us too."

I also think it is important for him to build his relationship with your kids, even if he feels broken or out of control. Because as Moxie said, in the context of love, many things that seem horrible can be mitigated a bit.

I don't know if this helps. But original question person or anyone else, if you have specific questions about PTSD just post 'em here. We're sort of at the ten-year mark out of the vast majority of the freaky stuff, and sometimes that perspective is helpful.

[Maria Wood]

Ok, I have only skimmed the comments, so I apologize if I'm repeating. I'm supposed to be packing for a trip but I had to respond. My ex, P's father, is a Vietnam vet with PTSD as well as bipolar disorder and (surprise!) substance abuse. We are not together anymore, so that is a difference, and he can be abusive and violent, so that's another one. Take what I'm saying with those grains of salt at least.

We certainly had similar times when we were together, including flashbacks, his fear of rejection if I knew what he did (though his version of that was to tell me in excruciating detail in order to test whether I'd leave him. Ironically, I didn't leave him because of those things), and his denial of being in the middle of an Episode. All pretty typical of trauma, I guess.

Moxie's experience with her father notwithstanding, I have to come down on the side of protecting the kids. Have you talked to your husband about that specifically, when he's not in the middle of the trouble? Maybe the two of you in concert with a therapist (either his or a separate couples therapist) can come up with a plan for protecting the kids (the one you spoke of sounds like a great start btw), as well as some appropriate language to use when talking about it with them.

Seeing your parent sobbing uncontrollably IS scary (even to an adult, honestly), and anger in his voice IS scary and can be felt as abuse, and your children need protection. And your husband, who sounds like he's working hard on his problems, needs to know they're protected as well. I'm sorry to say you're the one holding the bag. I know you want to be everything to everyone, but you can't, and while your husband is traumatized and in serious pain and is seriously debilitated, he is an adult with more resources for taking care of himself than a 4 year old and a 2 year old.

Are there vets' or PTSD groups he can join? Does his therapist respond to calls after hours? I think he needs to have support that is not you so that you are able to take care of the kids when he's in the middle of an episode. I'm not saying you have to abandon him, but just like with the (ahem) other parts of your relationship, you may have to find time when the kids are asleep or in school or otherwise safely out of the picture.

I think these episodes are too much for you guys to handle by yourselves. If he could go to someone or call someone, or you could call someone on his behalf, who could come over or talk to him on the phone, it might be preferable to banishing him to another part of the house. Also, someone who has been there, who can't be shocked by the stuff he has to say, will be able to help him more than you can.

You do absolutely need to begin talking with your children about it, even the 2 year old. Although he seems oblivious, he's picking stuff up, don't doubt it. I would definitely get some professional guidance about this, but I think the 'honest but no more details than they can take in' approach is best. You do not want it to become an Elephant in the Living Room, or to seem more mysterious and scary than it is. Having written that, I recognize that it doesn't get a lot more scary and mysterious than ex-military PTSD, but it's still something to shoot for. Something along the lines of a VERY matter-of-fact "Daddy is sad/scared/angry about things that happened a long time ago, and sometimes he has a hard time when he starts remembering them". Always, of course, with the refrain of "we both love you, he will be ok, it's not your fault, we are grownups and he has other grownup doctors/friends/family who are helping him and he's getting better [if that is true]"

The goal is to make it a normal, non-scary fact of life in your family, while reinforcing their sense of security and belovedness. I have tried to practice this with my daughter, though since we don't live with her father and since he is in such denial of his behavior it's got a different and more 'detach with love' slant.

This is way too long, and I have to get working. But my heart goes out to you and your family. It sounds like you and your husband are doing really well at remaining respectful of each other, which is a huge help, as is the fact that he is getting help. That it's coming out more now may be a great sign that he's making progress. I'd urge you to get your own therapist, and maybe the kids, or at least consult with a child therapist.

Please feel free to email me if you like (I'm sure I'd also benefit from communicating with someone who knows this specific terrain) at maria at davidgrover dot com. Good luck and please (if it's appropriate) pass my support and encouragement along to your husband.

[Jill]

Often beginning to deal with any kind of bad stuff in therapy brings it to the forefront, and it does get worse before it gets better. I'm not surprised that is your experience. A good therapist will know when it is time to stop talking about it and move on, because focusing on it can, eventually, make it worse. So if he has just started counseling, I'm betting this is a normal progression and it will eventually get better.

As for your kids, without going into too much personal history, I think your kids need to know you will keep them safe. Maybe harmony isn't the goal, or at least possible at this point. They need to know you will protect them, if need be. You may not believe he will be violent, but that doesn't mean it isn't scary to them. They need to know you will take care of them.

Your commitment to him is wonderful. Make sure he knows how you feel. We're rooting for you.

[rudyinparis]

Jan, I am just so in awe of the respect, dignity and love conveyed in your writing about your husband and the situation. This may sound like it's coming out of left field, but your ability to describe this situation in all it's nuance--you are a gifted writer.

Therapy, yes, yes. I think your husband needs somehow to tell you what he's afraid to tell you, and have it be in the light. Therapy can (and probably should) be the place for this.

I really don't have anything useful to say, and as always I'm completely blown away by this community and its ability to address these type of issues with caring and insight. So there's certainly nothing I can add to what has already been put here. Your love and devotion to your family will be in my thoughts, as will you.

[Charisse]

Sending you a lot of warm thoughts and hugs, Jan. I have great respect for your loving commitment to your husband (I have a similar one due to the much milder situation of Mr. C's having been left--and in frightening and traumatic ways such as sudden disappearances, attempted suicides--by family member, more than once. He needs to know that I will never do that, period.) Your husband doesn't sound abusive or dangerous, but hurting and hurt.

I think 4 is a tough age for this, especially for a sensitive kid--I know my 4-yo daughter picks up like a radar when I'm frustrated or angry and her first assumption is that it's about her. (We've had to work that out over a series of drawing-out conversations.) Again, a much milder situation--when I'm angry here it's like "pissed off at an annoying client" or something. BUT, she notices, she takes it to heart, and one of the critical things has been to explain to her what I'm angry at, i.e. NOT Mouse. And then she really wants to help. What your husband is dealing with sounds just awful, but if he's in any way in a state to say something like "I'm sad because I'm remembering something sad from a long time ago. I'm angry about it too. I'm not angry at you or anyone in this house. I love you." that's the sort of thing that helps with our milder version. And if he could bear to accept some little bit of kindness from your daughter (I realize that may not be possible when he's in the thick of it)--a borrowed stuffed animal she offers, or bringing him something, it would very likely help her. Not sure if it would help him--I don't know enough about this kind of trouble.

And I'm sure family therapy is a good idea. Good luck to you all--you sound like a wonderful family.

[michaela]

What wonderful comments here! I just want to add my support for the idea of having DH talk to the kids himself (in a calm moment) about what's going on. My father has a hair-trigger temper, and it was always something we tiptoed around -- never really acknowledged by him. As a kid (and to some extent now) I felt a huge responsibility to take care of him, and to not set him off. Our whole family really revolved around his potential for anger. Not good.

Your husband sounds like he is really aware of the issues (as opposed to my dad....), and so I think it could be SO helpful for him to be the one explaining what's going on to the kids.

I also think there is a very real value in the two of you, in concert with a therapist, making a plan TOGETHER for how to deal w/ the kids during his episodes. I would imagine that if he is involved in the planning/strategizing ahead of time, he might feel less abandoned in the moment.

Best of luck to all four of you.

[MrsHaley]

I don't have any action-oriented advice to share, but your situation makes me think of a phrase I repeat to myself when my husband is being difficult (in ways the don't even approach what your family is dealing with): One of the best gifts you can ever give your children is to love their father. How your marriage grows as a result of these troubles, how you treat him and how he treats you when the going gets tough, the language and behaviors they see and hear... these are what will teach them what love/marriage is. It sounds like they are learning the very best about marriage through this time.

I guess I come down on the side of being supportive/helpful/loving/present with your husband when he's struggling, rather than protecting/isolating the children from his raw and real emotions. I completely agree with trying to integrate his struggle into your family life and explaining what's going on to the children in developmentally-appropriate terms. So many pps have given excellent examples of language that might really speak to them.

I also love how you said you're not leaving and you're not defending that. I admire and respect you so much for being so strong. Marriages have ended for FAR lesser reasons. Your certainty and security will be the mast of the ship that steers your family into calmer waters.

[Amanda]

I don't have any personal experience with PTSD, but this reminded me of my mother's experience with her father.

My grandfather fought in WWII and when he came home, he sat in a corner and stared at the wall for months, amongst other strange behaviors. In those days there was no counseling or therapy for vets. My mother has always wanted, and STILL to this day, wants to know what was wrong with him, what he had seen, what had happened. Whenever she asked him his reply was always, "you don't want to know; they were horrible things that should never happen again".

Even though he's been dead for almost 30 years, my mother still is trying to contact people about him.

I realize that you certainly don't want to tell a child exactly what happened, and perhaps he can't tell anyone for confidentiality reasons, and that's fine. But I think the moral of my mother's story is that you should try to explain something to your children about why Daddy is so upset. "Daddy was thinking about something that made him very sad..." etc.

I also liked the idea of giving her a job to help him feel better as well as making sure the good times with him are very positive and as plentiful as possible.

My mother has great memories of her father despite his PTSD. She loved him very much and remembers his sense of humor and his funny quirks more than anything else, I think.

[zenjen]

Regarding the kids, I don't have specific advice as my own child is only 16 months old and I am learning with each month what those emotional landscapes look like. I don't have insight into what an older toddler or school age child would be experiencing.

My own experience is with a violent, alcoholic father who hit and was verbally abusive. This does not sound like an abusive situation though albeit a scary one for the kids. I think the previous posters' suggestion regarding having Dad talk to the kids as well as navigate all of this with therapy and help.

My husband was in the Israeli military as a special forces paratrooper. He dealt specifically with stopping suicide bombers who had bomb belts strapped to themselves on their way to blow up people in cafes, buses, etc.

Now, the Israeli military has a different culture than the American...they don't "break" people to serve, every citizen has to serve in some capacity at age 18 (though some chose not to), and one is actually told you don't have to obey an immoral order. I think the fact that he never felt broken or coerced, never felt he had to obey an order he felt was truly wrong, and that the country actually supported his efforts, made it easier for him to deal with situations that were horrific.

He's told me very little about it but I know that he has killed someone, that he watched a bomb go off on a bus that killed innocent people when his unit was trying to stop someone, and many, many more things.

He told me that three things have helped him process it all most:
1. Exercise. He needs to exercise every day. I make sure he can and we try not to make it a power struggle (making him choose between exercise and doing something for the family). If he doesn't run, lift weights or box, I can see the tension build up in him.
2. Meditation. He learned TM as a teenager and continues to do it daily (for about 10 min in the evening.
3. Support. From his unit, mostly. He's still friends with everyone even though they are in Israel, South America and other places. They stay in touch and I think that helps.
4. More support. From his friends and family in Israel. Just hearing from his friends and family that they think what he did was important makes a big difference.

Perhaps Jan's husband can get in touch with friends in his unit, maybe there can be some healing there. I don't know how communicative American men are about this sort of stuff, sounds like not very much but one never knows if there could be some healing or processing there.

Maybe friends and family members can try to be more supportive. There is so much negative energy out there about the war. I don't support the war but I think it can be very hard on the soldiers who are fighting, they must feel all of this. My husband said he probably would not be able to cope with a situation in Iraq given how divided the country is and how unsupportive people are of the soliders there and those returning. This is a bigger issue than I think most people talk about.

I don't feel like I was any help at all, I think perhaps there is too much a culture gap (us being European and Israeli) and Jan's family being American. But I hope therapy, support and time helps.

[Sherry]

I hate that I haven't had time lately to read all the wonderful comments and post a thoughtful comment myself. But I really appreciate Jan, Moxie, and everyone talking about this subject. My husband has depression and outbursts of scary anger, and I think he always will. I am going to try to take Moxie's advice and make sure that my girl knows it has nothing to do with her and that I myself am not scared of Daddy (though it does upset me more than it should). Maybe if she and I can talk about it somehow, it will make it okay: "That Daddy. Isn't he the greatest? And then sometimes he gets so mad! I'm glad you don't get mad like that! I'm glad I don't, too!" The older she gets, maybe the more explanation I can give. I have to think about this. Thanks to all for yesterday's comments, too.

[sheSaid]

EMDR is very very very good and helpful, and gentle as a process (in my personal experience). I would also really highly recommend going into therapy with him a few times, it shows you are there for him and together you can work on coping mechanisms. Perhaps the whole family? I think a therapist who has met with all of you will be the best person to offer recommendations on what each of you need to deal with the situation.

I think as a parent there is no way to completely protect a child very everything, so the most important this is to let them know they are loved and supported. If you can keep reassuring her and helping her to know that both of you love her and are there for her she will be strong enough to deal with it. And probably all of the advice above mine is also really wonderful I didn't have time to read through all of it.

[EB]

I have been in your husband's shoes. Life hasn't been easy. Lots of therapy and medication have helped take the edge off. Do I think I will ever be normal? No.

I do avoid movies, tv, situations that have anything to do with thing what I have witnessed.

[Maria Wood]

EB, I am thinking of you and your sorrow.

[Shandra]

I hope I'm not going to over comment today but I came back to highlight a few things.

I see someone else mentioned exercise and I just want to mention exercise again myself. Being ex-special forces or whatever your husband probably works out Jan but I can't say what a different it made to me. What I came to realize is that PTSD is such a right on the "fight or flight" end of the spectrum that my body just lost the ability to rid itself of the rush on its own. Exercise sort of spends the tension.

I also found that my own hyperawareness makes me very aware on a weird level of my own body - not in a good way. So when I don't eat right or get dehydrated, I get more off-kilter than most people.

All these are really more tips for him than for you I guess. But my DH really helps by asking the pertinent questions: did you have breakfast? Want to go for a walk? Etc.

Also to say it is really good that he has you sticking it out. My husband has and thank god. He was and is really, really good with the clear boundaries, and it provided a cushion to bounce against at times. And although it hasn't come up in parenting yet I depend on that in case it does too.

I really like the idea of coming up with a strategy first between the two of you and then as a family. ALL of you could talk about what to do when people are very sad or very angry and develop a whole family routine. It might include putting on special music or going out for a walk or whatever.

That said, though, I am going to say maybe more explicitly that there is still only so much that you can do. Having been active in various PTSD/DID communities over the years I guess I have just seen a lot of people try to manage their partner's recovery, to everyone's detriment. So much of the recovery process on the practical side is about learning self-management, learning about control and being present in the present.

So if what you need to do is take the kids out for a drive or ask him to go in another room, that's ok. He can learn what he needs to learn that way too. His issues around being unloveable or rejected are real, of course, but the solution does not have to be 24 hr a day availability.

[Erin]

EB - I also avoid media that has anything to do with the things that caused my PTSD... I found that visual representations of traumatic acts (on TV or movies or on the news/pictures) affect me more than reading about them and will often trigger a nightmare. It took me a while to be ok with that, particularly since I really love movies and I was already feeling so different than everyone else... - Erin

[Jan]

Jan, here.

Thank you everyone for your supportive and kind comments and suggestions. I'm at work right now, so will save my careful reading for later, but I wanted to add a little bit of information.

(1) He does not have flashbacks in front of me or the kids. That happens only when he's asleep. He does have these stress-induced episodes that closely resemble drunk (except -- and it took me ages to figure this part out -- he is the "I love you, man" drunk and when he has these episodes he is angry and sometimes mean).

(2) LOL, ROFLMAO and any other acronyms you can think of for spurting diet Coke out my nose at those of you praising how gracefully I've handled this situation. Because I was the poster child for NOT handling well for ever so long. I have, over the years, ranted and raved and thrown things and blamed him and forced him to go to AA (because he MUST be lying about not being drunk) and threatened to leave and asked him to get out and pretty much any other nasty reaction you can think of. What can I say, I guess I'm a slow learner, because none of that worked. When I finally broke down in tears one day and told him that I was half-afraid and half-HOPING to come home one day and find him dead, that was when he finally agreed to get some counseling. That was just over a year ago; he has stopped and started a couple of times.

(3) He has asked his counselor about EMDR and she doesn't seem to know much about it. We chose her because she lists PTSD as a specialty (and because she's a woman -- previous attempts at therapy have always been with men and it's never worked; he seems to be more comfortable getting 'touchy feely' with a woman), and she said she was going to do a little research. I think it's going to be really tough to convince him to change therapists -- he's had some bad experiences in the past (including one guy who I'd like to punch right in the nose who essentially told him he was a bad person for following his orders back then).

(4) I've been to see a counselor. I'm on meds now and that has helped (I haz teh Anxious). She thought (and I agree) that the stress of the situation was difficult, but that I have managed to figure out a reasonably mentally healthy set of coping skills for myself. She was much more concerned with my Mother issues (a la yesterday's comments)!

And sadly, (5), Moxie, your image of the husband may have been somewhat accurate (Brad Pitt -- I was actually told he bore a resemblance to Brad Pitt!) lo, those many years ago, but one of his many self-medicating strategies has been disordered eating (bulimia -- it's not just for women anymore!), so his table muscle is one of the more developed these days. :) I still think he's Da Bomb (<--dating myself), but he probably isn't fighting them off at the bar the way he once was.

Oh, and a special thank you to MrsHaley for making a point to be supportive of my decision not to leave him. One of the hardest parts about this for me has been the difficulty in finding anybody to talk to (including professionals sometimes) who doesn't try to start up the "maybe you'd be better off ..." conversation. It's complicated, but fundamentally, I believe this falls into the 'sickness and health' clause of the marriage contract I entered into 15 years ago.

And thanks to rudyinparis who called me a gifted writer. Is there any situation that can't be improved a little by a flattering compliment? I think not.

I'm amazed (and sad) at how many people have actual PTSD-related stories to relate. I was only hoping I'd get feedback from people with maybe similar situations -- like the depression Moxie mentioned, or maybe some substance-abuse stuff. Again, thank you all for the great feedback and ideas. When I'm at home and I can cry in private, I promise you I'll be poring over them for days.

[pnuts mama]

i read through the comments and maria woods advice to have someone to call (a professional, PTSD specialist counselor/therapist who deals with your husband) during an episode could be key, at least until you get to a place where you two have coping mechanisms/etc. to deal with the episodes as they come up.

i also was thinking that there *definitely* are more and more military-specific PTSD support groups (and ways for the spouses in the groups) to connect now more than ever, perhaps that could be a lead for you.

also wanted to commend everyone who suggested the idea of letting your children know that it's ok for mommies and daddies to be sad/angry/etc.- and that it is not their fault or because they did something. "everyone is sad/mad sometimes" is an easy thing to explain- perhaps a book about emotions? even shows like sesame street have songs/segments dealing with human emotions and appropriate responses. too many of us were raised not knowing that it was normal for adults to experience the same feelings we did- so now we aren't entirely sure what is appropriate and what isn't. take care.

[Julie]

The only thing I have to add is to encourage you to find a support system IRL who can be there for you - the greatest gift of this site is the ability to bare your soul and have a group of loving and caring people come and rally around you, but at the end of the day it's only virtual, not physical. As humans, we need the element of human contact to really feel connected on multiple levels. What a wonderful thing it would be if a poster here were in your area - someone who kind of already knows you, your family and you don't need to worry about "making first impressions" and waiting to air your dirty laundry until a bond is formed. I think I can speak for many of the regular posters here to say Hey Jan! We know you! We like you! We want to help. And if any of us is near you we will be there for you too.

[anon this time]

I also want to say that protecting the kids might be an important thing to do. Clearly one aspect of that is helping their father get better, but on a more immediate level, if it seems like they can't handle witnessing or thinking about his emotional episodes, I think the choices are to give them the tools to deal with it OR make sure they don't have to. Please don't assume they can necessarily handle hearing/watching/conversing about it. If you, as their mother, feel that they can't... gosh, please listen to those feelings.

Here is my bias: I grew up with a severely mentally ill mother who was an amazing and wonderful parent otherwise. Multiple suicide attempts, several stints in the psychiatric hospital, running away from home, intense depression, that sort of thing. I have come a long way in terms of my general fear of abandonment, but when it comes to my relationship with my mother, I am nowhere near over it. (I am 27 now; my heart is racing just from writing this.) I wish someone had protected me when I was a kid because now, as a result of being asked to "understand" what my mother went through, there is a dimension in which our relationship is grievously stunted.

[anon this time]

I also want to say that protecting the kids might be an important thing to do. Clearly one aspect of that is helping their father get better, but on a more immediate level, if it seems like they can't handle witnessing or thinking about his emotional episodes, I think the choices are to give them the tools to deal with it OR make sure they don't have to. Please don't assume they can necessarily handle hearing/watching/conversing about it. If you, as their mother, feel that they can't... gosh, please listen to those feelings.

Here is my bias: I grew up with a severely mentally ill mother who was an amazing and wonderful parent otherwise. Multiple suicide attempts, several stints in the psychiatric hospital, running away from home, intense depression, that sort of thing. I have come a long way in terms of my general fear of abandonment, but when it comes to my relationship with my mother, I am nowhere near over it. (I am 27 now; my heart is racing just from writing this.) I wish someone had protected me when I was a kid because now, as a result of being asked to "understand" what my mother went through, there is a dimension in which our relationship is grievously stunted.

[Katie B.]

I can't really add anything to the suggestions for Jan's husband and kids. While I may have very mild PTSD myself, I have ways of coping, and I know very little on the practical level about kids yet. What I can say, as a caregiver-type person myself (I have long thought about getting some training in pastoral-type counseling, and I have described some of my own situation in other comments, including one yesterday), is that Jan absolutely needs therapy/counseling/ professional support. I would say she needs the counseling if she had no children - much as we want to fix our mates, it's not our job; even people who are trained for it don't work with their mates on that level, and seek counseling to help. With two small children, especially one old enough to begin to grasp that something's not right, I think she needs it doubly; Jan herself is asking for help because she's caught in the middle, trying to be primary caregiver to people with conflicting needs. I think perhaps Jan should also seek out a therapist who specializes in PTSD; while she may not suffer from it herself, she is coping with someone who is, and can use suggestions on what to do and how to cope, herself. If she can swing it, probably taking all of the family into counseling together (again with a specialist) wouldn't be at all a bad idea - help get the kids talking to the parents, and vice versa, and giving everyone coping support.

This is an issue very near and dear to my heart, so close that I had a very hard time articulating my thoughts in a way that people outside of our family situation could understand. I have had many conversations on the subject with my SIL, who has DID and PTSD herself, and is primary caregiver for my brother who is severely depressed and also has PTSD (thanks be to all deities that I escaped so much of it!), and wants her to fix him. Fortunately, in his saner moments he knows, and knows why, that isn't possible, and they both now have health insurance whereby they can both begin to find the counseling they need.

I am a very strong proponent of caregivers needing counseling in general.

[MorahLaura]

I actually experienced EMDR therapy first-hand, though admittedly for a much less major reason. Looking back now, my fears and stress almost seem silly to me, but maybe that's because the EMDR worked so well for me.

Just wanted to put in a quick 2 cents that it can and does work very well, at least in my situation.

[Jan]

@Julie, I'm lucky enough to have made one friend (at work, even) who really gets that my husband is a good guy with a specific problem we're dealing with together. She is really great about taking a walk with me at lunch so I can unload and never makes me feel judged. I don't know where I'd be without her. (Also, my husband's sister is one of my best friends from college, so I can talk to her about him without worrying that she'll turn on him, if that makes sense.)

[Katie B.]

Oh! Jan, I wanted to second Mrs Haley's support of your not leaving your husband. Just because someone's broken, doesn't mean we stop loving them - if that were so, my DH would never have married me! If your situation were abusive, that would be another matter, but from what you have shared, it doesn't sound that way to me, merely (hah! "merely") difficult. Abuse from this stuff would have me encouraging you to go (although I know first-hand how hard that is), but since it isn't there... go you! Doesn't that there marriage contract (ok, I'm not sure about newer forms) also say something about "mutual support and comfort"?

[hedra]

@Jan, I'm glad you have some IRL support.

If your DH can't imagine going to someone else than the therapist he has now, you may need to do some of the EMDR research yourself, and provide it to her. Including where he can get access locally to a trained practitioner (working with her - you can team them up - I teamed up my therapist with my midwives for pregnancy/birth stuff, for example - you just have to have them sign forms saying they can talk to each other about the patient in question).

I think I'm still coming down to the general plan of 'ongoing counseling for you RELATED to supporting PTSD recovering spouse', plus 'protect the kids AND also have a plan and a method for handling the specifics of his aftermath reactions'. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the 'finding a way for kids to help/have a role for them re: him' because it to me reads as 'they become responsible for helping him feel better' and that's a serious knee-jerk no-no from my side. It's not their job. RELATING to him is part of their role, but HELPING HIM is not necessarily. I was picturing more a way to be with, rather than a way to help. How can they be with him safely, within that awareness and space, and feel connected, without feeling they are responsible for making him feel better? That kind of space.

Best of luck pursuing the results.

[snm]

I don't have much in the way of advice or help, just empathy. My husband was in a car accident a few years ago and suffered a brain injury. He would often fly off the handle at the smallest things. I was never afraid of him, and he never directed his anger at me, although it wasn't really anger. It was just the broken brain trying to deal with everyday frustrations. That said, it was, and still is, difficult to deal with. I talked with the therapists when he was in the hospital and in rehab, and I am very glad I did. If you have never talked with anyone, I really think you should, I don't know if I would have known how to deal with him if I hadn't.
Do your best to not take it personally, perhaps that will rub off on your children as well.
Now that I have a baby, it has been harder to meet my husbands needs. I now have a little person that is totally depended on me, and I sometimes feel there is not enough of me to go around, and that hey, I need someone to take care of me every now and then!
So, sorry I can't be helpful, just understanding in the difficulty meeting everyone's needs.

[michaela]

I totally agree w/ hedra re: not erring on the side of making the kids feel responsible for helping Daddy feel better. (Although I did just suggest to my 2-year-old that she let one of her stuffies keep me company on the couch while I battle this infernal fever/cold...) They're gonna feel that responsibility enough on their own without it being a parentally reinforced message.

And, Jan, I'm so glad you have a friend you can unload to about work *and* home stuff. People like that are invaluable.

[Heather]

I'm feeling a little against the grain with giving the 4 year old a task when her dad is upset. It seems to me that there is the chance that a connection could get drawn that her "correct" completion of the task might help bring dad around faster, which gives her responsability that isn't real.

My heart aches for this family and I hope that everybody comes out of it ok.

[Anonymousy]

Anonymous for this. My situation is very different but your comment about being pulled both ways to support your husband and your child struck a real chord with me. My daughter is 7 months old and my husband changed jobs the month before she was born and it triggered fairly severe anxiety/depression. This is still an ongoing situation for us and at 5am this morning I was dealing with our daughter on her 7th wake up of the night and a husband who was awake, anxious and desperate to talk to me.

Sorry, very roundabout on this post - there are a number of things that I have found that can help and support him. Making an overall 'plan of action' together is empowering for both of us and helps. Having a plan for mornings when he wakes early also helps - he doesn't have to figure out what to do, it's already decided that the options are a) snuggle, b) go for a run c) go into work early. If you and he can work out what he is going to do in certain triggering situations then neither of you need to think, you just do.

Exercise is key for my husband - when things are bad he runs daily. I'm sure some form of exercise would help your husband. Another area I can 'help' with is diet - I make sure we all eat as well as we possibly can and make sure there are easy, healthy things in the freezer that can be thrown into the oven. Filling the freezer may help you avoid the 'banana and nuts' guilt and help you know you are giving your husband the best nutrition to deal with everything.

I was thinking about your post all day and 2 other things I came up with were, firstly, can your husband go back to his old regiment for support and suggestions on therapists/most effective type of therapy? He can't be the only one suffering in this way, unfortunately. Secondly, would making some kind of reparations soothe his soul? Such as joining something like Amnesty International or supporting a child in a war torn country? They are kind of lame examples, and you and he would know what would be most pertinent to his situation, but sometimes DOING something good can feel like you are resettling your personal 'angel/devil' equilibrium on the angel side.

I don't know if any of this will be of any help and I have nothing to offer re: managing children around this kind of trauma. I have a strong feeling though that both you and he and your children will all come through it ok - your strength shines through your post. Good luck!

[Lisa]

I also did a bit of EMDR, albeit for issues far less intense or difficult. But I'd third/fourth the recommendation - it had a way of unsticking stuff I was having trouble with processing otherwise. Very, very helpful.

Oh, and there are specific EMDR practitioners, so I suspect he wouldn't have to change therapists if he didn't want to - perhaps he could work with both for a while.

Finally, Jan, your love and strength are evident. Good luck to all of you in this.

[vanessa]

I grew up with a dad that has PTSD/alcholism. He wasn't violent, exactly, but he could be mean. And I get that that isn't what's going on here--but I would like to just say that as a kid, my dad acting "not right" felt really, really scary. Both my sister and I are still very sensitive to all the things that happened when he was "not right"--doors slamming, loud noises, chaos--all the things that triggered his PTSD, too!
And my mom always ran interference, or tried to, and as a result, their marriage was in deeeeep trouble for a long time. It still is, to some extent.
I don;t have a real solution here except to say that things that may seem not really abusive or scary but really are, from the kids POV. I would try some therapy--somebody who can help you figure out how to cope with your husband and your kids at the same time.
Good luck.

[Mommie Mentor]

Jan you’re a strong women with clear intentions about your marriage.
That strength is shining through in all you write.
I have no experience with PTSD. The only resonance I have to any of this is from a child’s point of view having lived with a rage-aholic while growing up.

My mother’s unpredictable rage made my sister and I feel like a time bomb could go off at any moment. Those feelings made us tip toe around her and shy away from her. It also caused us to become disconnected from ourselves. No one ever explained what was really going on, so using our immature mind we filled in the blanks with something much worse than the reality.

I do want to add something regarding your daughter. I believe preschoolers need to know a “small” portion of what’s going on in their home or they will fill in the blank with something much worse. There were tons of great suggestions today about how Dad is sad about something that happened a long time ago etc, no need to repeat them again.

Hedra is correct; it is NOT your child’s job to fix Dad, and you don’t want to send that message. However, you do want to help her manage HER feelings and reactions to all of this, and you can do that by empowering her to help herself.

Ask her what upsets her the most when Dad does “his thing”. Notice how I used words that are at the preschool level and words that don’t share any of the adult details. The words simply focus on the child and her needs and feelings. Then you can ask her what she would like to do or where she would like to be when Dad is doing “his thing” or however you want to describe this to her at the preschool level.
By empowering her this way you are showing her that when you can’t change what’s going on—you can change you attitude about it, and you can do something that makes you feel more relaxed while it’s going on.
Good Luck

[Jan]

Jan again!

Already today I tried asking the Munchkin if she remembered the other night when daddy was sad (the episode I wrote to Moxie about was the most recent one). She did. I asked her how it made her feel and she said she felt sad. I asked if it made her feel scared or angry and she said no, just sad. Which was interesting, because scared was what I was expecting. (Sad is also how she feels when she's not getting my attention when she wants it, so I don't think it was empathy or anything.)

I like the idea of asking her what she wants to do -- either beforehand or when it comes up. She is accustomed enough to being given choices that I think she would feel safe if I told her daddy was sad and asked her if she would like to give him a hug or share her blanket with him or whatever; she would feel free to say she didn't if she wasn't comfortable with it.

Several people have expressed concern over me and whether I'm getting the help I need. I appreciate that and am totally aware of the importance of it. I'm just not stuck on figuring out how to do it, so I didn't ask for help on it -- does that make sense? I have a counselor I can call and make an appointment with if and when I need to. And I do sometimes.

@Anonymousy, it's interesting that you bring up reparations. He spent several years working nearly full-time as a volunteer EMT before deciding he didn't want that as a career -- I fully believe this saving of lives was his personal restitution for the lives he took.

One other specific question, if y'all will indulge me: How do I get him to take the help that's available to him? He has this strong "it's my problem" thing going on that makes him unwilling to go to the VA, for example, to take advantage of their resources. He has even refused to run the counseling appointments through the health insurance that we get through my work, instead paying cash for them out of the money he earns himself. I've talked until I'm blue in the face about the idiocy (I don't use the word idiocy, but come ON) of this (hello, same pot, why not take advantage of the tax benefits?) and he just doesn't hear it.

He is obsessed with all things military -- they don't seem to trigger him at all. I think what's gotten him going the last couple of years has been this Iraq nonsense -- particularly all the information we're getting now about how the administration has misled us. He has said that at the time, he was told (and he told himself) that what he was doing NEEDED to be done; now he wonders if that was true. Some of the Bad Stuff was kid-related, too, and I think having our own children has made them seem that much more horrific to him.

I just don't know. Sometimes I think there's nothing anyone can do. I guess I am just trying to love him (and the kids) and hope that's enough.

[amy]

I had to come back and read the comments all day today, and a couple of comments reminded me of something I want to share.

My brother was killed in a training accident in the Navy many years ago. Several of his friends witnessed the accident, and of those guys, all but one developed PTSD.
1. The Navy refused to diagnose them properly, preferring to instead diagnose substance abuse or straight-forward depression. So, I wouldn't count on military to necessarily get it right. Of course, these guys were all active duty at the time, and that might account for the Navy's motives.
2. Every so often, a bunch of the guys and some family members of the fallen get together, AND IT HELPS THEM to talk to us. We don't usually talk about the accident (if we ever have), but we do talk about anything and everything we feel like. The guys always tell my mom and me that seeing us okay helps them shed some guilt.

Jan, my experience might not apply directly to your husband, but the earlier suggestion of getting him in touch with guys from his unit has legs, IMO. They may or may not talk about the stuff that went down back then, but seeing each other in pain or in health might ground him and help him find some peace. Best of luck, my dear. You're in my thoughts.