More on tapping into your own unresolved issues

Every once in awhile we talk about it directly, but almost every post contains some component of having our buttons pushed. Yesterday's post on grieving the loss of the special relationship with a first child put it right back in the front of my mind.

I posted the specifics of what it was that I realized was happening to my son that had happened to me in the comments:

"The mismatch I felt was that my son seemed to be really angry and want to cry and I felt like I couldn't comfort him. And then I offhandedly made a remark to my therapist about how my mom said I just wanted to hurtle out of her arms, and I always felt like she was trying to make everything better all the time.

And my therapist connected the dots in half a second and said, "So it sounds like you really just wanted someone to acknowledge and accept your anger, not tell you that everything was going to be OK."

Um, duh. So, yeah, once I started saying to my son "You're angry! You feel mad and sad and you just want to cry!" And he'd look at me and then stop crying and want to hug me! Like as soon as I acknowledged his angry feelings and validated them instead of just glossing over them and trying to comfort him, he didn't need to be so angry anymore.

Then, strangely, it started to be easier for me to be angry. And I talked to my mom about it, and she realized she was never really allowed to be angry as a child, either. And, even more strangely, in the past few years since having this realization, my mom has allowed herself to have her own anger, too.

Round, like a circle like a wheel within a wheel..."

And hedra hit it right between the eyes with this assessment:

"4) Check your own history. If your pain seems at all out of true to the situation, likely you're handling two situations at once - the current one, and something in the past. Worth looking into. I found I was mourning my own relationship change to my mom from back when my baby brother was born. AND some of the pre-and-post divorce-of-my-parents emotional burden. I'd 'repaired the rift' through the relationship with my eldest, and then here it was torn open again! I learned instead to allow the stretch in the process, and recognize that as a child I saw the relationship as torn APART when it was merely stretched to a thinner thread and greater distance. As an adult I can see that the thread is and always was there, it just wasn't something I could recognize. (Which isn't to say that I don't sometimes feel like the relationship I had with G isn't just busted a bit - we get along well, but I still feel the sharp edges of what used to be my perception of the relationship join... only, I suspect that's still old history showing up again, too. It's not so big an issue for me that I feel a need to go back into therapy at the moment, but I could see how it could have been if I hadn't already done a huge amount of therapy BEFORE child two came along!)."

The more I live as a parent, the more I think that it's only partially about parenting the child in front of you, but partially about healing yourself. And whenever you feel emotion out of proportion to the actual situation, that's telling you that you've hit on something in yourself that wasn't right. (So maybe Marina is particularly feeling this because she felt a loss as an older child, and maybe Jennifer is feeling bad for the second because she didn't get enough alone time with her parents.)

I got an email a few months ago from a women who wanted to know what to do about her toddler daughter's crying, because it literally made her cower and shake, and she'd do anything to get her daughter to stop crying. (Not a sustainable model.) She wanted to know if I had any tips to stop a toddler from crying. (Short of duck tape, no.) I asked if she'd been allowed to cry when she was a toddler. She said that no, she'd had to be quiet because her dad was an alcoholic and would fly into an absolute rage whenever the kids made any noise. Bingo! But when I pointed this out and said she could use the crying reaction as a way to help herself and also give her daughter what she didn't get, she didn't want to hear it and just wanted a quick fix to stop her daughter from crying.

I think about that woman at least twice a week, and wonder how things are going. I know there's nothing I can do about her situation. But I'm hoping that by continuing to talk about it here, maybe others of you who are wondering why certain things make you absolutely lose it (out of proportion to the situation--losing it is sometimes the only reasonable reaction) can help figure it out. And that will make things better not only for you, but for your kids.

Thoughts? If you're having situations that are making you feel stuck emotionally, post them and we'll see if we can troubleshoot. That anger thing with me was so simple, but I never would have gotten there on my own. And if anyone else has had revelations, if you post them maybe it will spark something in someone else.

Comments

[hedra]

@Amanda, that's also a normal age for the 'I CAN'T DO THIS!' freak out and give up thing. Quitting when there's no perfection on the first try... yeah, normal. I had a bit of that, and saw it in my kids as well.

One of the things that helped us (and G especially) was to attempt more things that have no set easy mastry. G was very into assuming he was able if he could do it at all, or assuming he would never be able if he couldn't do it perfectly on the first go (both, depending on the situation). We decided that something with a really long learning curve would be useful to him (he was 7 at the time, I think). Looked into martial arts, but really was aiming for tai qi - something that 'master' is a term used for people who have done it for decades, not just years. Music might also have worked, for another child - but he has a lot of talent there, and so he'd have flown on TALENT rather than 'craft' (skill). And that isn't the lesson we were trying to teach. We thought he'd have at least some skill with the tai qi, but it turns out he was a less than average student on that (very auditory, not visual or kinesthetic) - but he was engaged and interested and wanted it. So we took the class together. And he watched me learn, and ask questions, try and not get it right, get corrections and adjustments, and the same with him. He spent a year learning that mastery isn't instant, that the process is enjoyable and positive and powerful, and that you could enjoy and be proud of the small accomplishments along the way, too. I think maybe the trick was choosing an activity that wasn't beyond his overall ability, but that simply could not be accomplished all at once.

Granted, we also waited a long time to find that one thing for him.

For B, it was horseback riding. For M and R, it isn't really much of an issue - neither has had much of the 'I can't' thing, but I think that's because of the twin issue - there was always someone ready to take over the task/activity if you stopped trying. The only way to retain ownership of the crayons and paper was to not relinquish them, and that meant keeping going even if you weren't happy with the results. They would spontaneously toss aside something they weren't happy with and IMMEDIATELY keep going on a new version. No way is sister-sister going to get the green crayon while I'm using it! And then that evolved into realizing that the other sister had her own crayon and was happy with that, but they were already used to just carrying on through the mistakes until they got closer to what they wanted to do.

Not that this is necessarily useful, but ... well, there are opportunities, and opportunities after that, too. Seven seems like pretty late to handle perfectionism effectively, but ... well, it worked. (There are some great books on the subject out there, too, I hear).

@zenjen - for the FTT, definitely anything by Ellyn Satter - though do note that she's pretty 'eh' on breastfeeding, not terribly supportive. BUT, she's GREAT for learning your own food issues, handling those, and not passing them on. I have How to Get Your Kid to Eat - But Not Too Much, which is all about empowering kids to make their own food choices, even if that means they end up teensy for a while (or obese for a while, etc.). It's all about the power of autonomy in the relationship with food, which seems like a good match for your background. I know that fear thing (having had two kids plunge on the charts - B went from 90th to under 25th %ile, and M grew zero inches between 16 and 22 months, I think it was. Six months ZERO growth, not exactly normal at that age! Fortunately, for both it was the same answer - Fructose Malabsorption, and fortunately we'd figured out the issue with B just before we discovered the lack of growth with M, so knew what to try first. Oh, and for us, the underlying issue was actually a motility one, it turns out - hypermobility, really - extra flexible joints and connective tissue, also means lax GI function, which is hard for them to spot with most tests, but it makes Fructose Malabsorption a more severe issue than it otherwise would be... anyway, best of luck tracking it down, and I suspect you'll have much better luck NOT sending the wrong messages than most, with your history (DO mention your history, because if you had late growth, she could have a very normal case of Constitutional Growth Delay, which is just 'the other growth pattern' - very low, slow growth at first, but continuing for years longer than the 'standard' curve. It's genetic, it's technically normal, and it's also 'not on the chart'. Sigh.)

[anonThisTime]

@hedra Thank you! Your post was helpful. It reminded me about something in grade school that happened to me. I always did well in school, and I was proud of my accomplishments, but not boastful. I remember in 6th or 7th grade getting a test back in class, and I had not done as well as usual. A boy in the class, who usually did average work, got a better grade than I, and announced to the class "I beat her! I beat the smartest kid in the class on this test!" (I'm paraphrasing, of course.) The humiliation I felt has never really left me, even though I haven't thought of that day in a long time. After that day, I wanted to be The BEST in the class, and a lot of the time I was.

When I went on to college, I realized I couldn't always be The BEST, but I could do My BEST, and that became enough. Even so, I started to have doubts about my abilities, and felt that up until college, I had been getting by on talent (which is strange, because I was/am a hard worker). I made a name for myself in my major, and developed a reputation as someone who always did excellent work. But I started to wonder -- was I really doing that well, or did people just see my work and assume it would be excellent because it had my name attached to it? Then asking for help became an even bigger issue, because I felt that if I admitted I had trouble doing something, everyone would find out I wasn't as "smart" as they thought.

Writing this, I now realize that what it comes down to (at least for me) is something I've been reading about here and there -- how we praise our kids. I lived for praise as a child/student/young adult, but the praise usually came in the form of "What a smart girl!" as opposed to "You really worked hard!" This is something that I've been paying attention to lately with my kids, but I hadn't really made the connection. It is possible that my fear of asking for help is tied to "being smart" rather than "working hard," even though I have always been a hard worker!

Thanks for helping me troubleshoot!

[meanderwithme]

@hedra --

I'd love to see that "Montessori in the home" write-up if you're willing to share.

Moxie --

Fabu topic. Reading/skimming the comments drives home to me the sense I've had that my husband VERY MUCH relives his own issues. Heck, I've even seen it with how he treats the dog. I'd write more, but he just came home for lunch, so maybe later. In the meantime, I'll try to have a *teensy* bit more compassion for him when he overreacts to the kids. After all, I had 2 years with my first (as a single mom) to go through my own processing!

[hedra]

@meanderwithme, addy? And recognize it is a draft, and that we have copyright.

[Amy]

My current emotional problem is that my own mother projects her childhood issues onto my children. My mother was the oldest of six kids and felt like there was never enough love to go around. She felt deprived emotionally, financially, spacial-y, you name it. So, she had just one child herself--me--and gave me everything a child could ever want. But apparently, that didn't feed her own inner child sufficiently, so she is over-giving to my own children (and bitter with me because I had--gasp--THREE of them, because, you know, I could never love all three of them like I could love just one of them, etc., etc.) In her defense, she recognizes that what she gives them is an effort to make up for her own denied childhood. But what she can't see is that she's hurting the relationship I have with them by being over-indulgent. We live in the same city, and they spend one night every two weeks with her and my dad. They would rather spend all their time with her because she has no rules, buys them whatever they want, etc. She's even taken to accusing me of treating #3 better than I treat #1 and #2 (who are from my first marriage) because I am no longer married to their father. I know even this accusation stems from her own fears that her parents (or father) loved her younger siblings more than her... but how do teach my children that love isn't about material things and deal with the emotional tug-of-war I find myself in without distancing them from a grandmother they adore (and who adores them) and a mother who is my best friend (most of the time)? Any ideas or anecdotes?

[pnuts mama]

@hedra and joy:
panic cleaning is the only way my house ever gets clean. sigh. thanks for the laugh.
back to the comments!

[Sarah]

Wow, what an interesting topic. I think it is hitting extra hard because I am pregnant with #3 and everything is a little extra emotional.

I find myself seeing not how I parent like my mom--there are parallels there but not upsetting ones--but how I can act like my dad. My dad was present, but somewhat awkward at parenting. Best when we were about 4 years old and then so-so as we got bigger. He yells easily and loses his temper easily. My mom always says he is mad at himself, not us. He rarely yelled at my brother or me--more "where is my damn hammer?" And my mom would point out it was right where he left it on the table. I catch myself being angry the same way. (It is infuriating to live with someone so helpful) But I admit I am angry and often, shockingly, at other people. I have joked I have never seen my mother really mad.

I guess it is sort of progress to own my anger. My mom is pretty great as a parent and makes it all look easy. I don't find it easy. What a thought-provoking discussion...to see how I am different. How I wish I were more like my mom (her endless patience and enthusiasm for kid games, her love of playing outside, her energy, how if she is faking it, I still don't see it as grown-up. But honestly, I grew up thinking I was never ever annoying. And the real world is brutal there.). And I hope I can make the ways I am like my dad into being a better/happier parent.

[zenjen]

@caramama...Yes, my toddler was and is still breastfed. He nurses about 2-3 times a day now depending on naps. I recently did get that book out of the library but have not read it yet. Thanks for the suggestion about the WHO charts. Right now food is not a struggle, the kid will eat most anything and is happy to try new foods too. He's been eating table foods since 9 months old and hasn't had any "baby" food for many months now. He eats and snacks well but just isn't putting on the weight that "they" want him to. And I don't mind you being all up in my business...it helps!!!

[pnuts mama]

@amy- i don't think will help, necessarily, but i just wanted to validate your situation- my MIL sees her raising as being both materially austere/strict and i observe her now (with her boys who are all adults) as reacting in the opposite way- overcompensates with "stuff" (for herself and them) as well as stays so far out of their business that unless we called her i don't think we'd ever hear from her. it's weird for me.
as far as how she is w/ her grandkids, it's similar, buys them crap they don't want/need (vs. being with them/calling them/knowing what is going on in their lives) and that's difficult for me (also, i'm not her kid so that's a twist). she is a good hearted and well-intentioned person who has a ton of issues she never dealt with very well. i try and encourage her to create 'memories' instead of things and experiences but that's difficult as she always has big plans and intentions that she rarely follows through on.

could you encourage your mom to do 'things' with each of your kids individually (maybe an arts/crafts lesson, zoo outing, park, whatever their interests are) to give *her* one on one time with each of them? maybe she is afraid that she isn't getting/giving enough individual attention to them, either. just a thought.

[H-Bean's Mom]

I'm the long lost mom that Moxie is referring to in her post. I think, although I went back to my original email and it's a little different than what Moxie mentions here. Anyway, Imagine my surprise when I read the post today.

Yes, I went through a stage when my little H-Bean was just over a year old and her crying was making me incredibly anxious. I said it felt sometimes like my shoulders were attached to my earlobes. When she was unhappy with something, I'd hurry to help her however I could, just so she wouldn't cry. I still do this periodically, but have learned to temper my urges to "fix" everything, because, let's face it, it is impossible. She cries less now because she's more verbal, I think, and I feel a lot less anxious, but I also talked to my therapist about this and she introduced the concept of just allowing H-Bean to be upset -within reason, natch, whether it's because she wants a book in the back seat of the car (while I'm driving up 95), or she REALLY wants her waffle - NOW!

What Moxie asked me back then, "Were you allowed to cry as a child," did strike a chord for me and it wasn't that I "didn't want to hear it," I just hadn't really thought of it before. Now I'm dealing with some issues around anger and how it rears its head, and, yes, I've gone back to the question of whether or not I was allowed to be angry as a child, and once again, the answer is not really. I'm also looking at why my anger makes me feel powerful and why that's at all important to me, and, why I get angry when I feel "not enough." All tied to childhood stuff. Surprised? I wasn't either.

SO, yes, I agree, and I've seen it play out in my own mothering practice. When something is above and beyond - feeling anxious, angry explosions over relative nothings - there's something going on in the background. Something that's been nestled snug inside just waiting for a time when you'll shine a light on it and give it the attention it so wants and needs. When I'm anxious or inappropriately angry I TRY and conjure up an image of me as a little girl, just wanting someone to tell her it's okay - okay to be scared, to cry, to be angry, to be allowed.

Moxie, I'm doing alright, BTW. My daughter is almost 2 now and my wonderfully supportive hubby is a jewel. I love my little family and I love that motherhood has such capacity to heal - as, I think, do many of our truly loving relationships. I still read your site just about every day and I have to tell you that what it offers has been/is invaluable - community, ideas, support, encouragement...I could go on. Thanks for thinking of me, and thanks for what you do.

[pnuts mama]

@enu- before i go through any more comments, i just wanted to let you know i've been thinking about you and your family and sending good thoughts.
and having a kid that is smaller than everyone else's is definitely scary and nerve-wracking. i can't imagine being investigated for FTT. my heart really hurt when i read your post, and i can definitely understand how it would continue to be a source of pain for you. be well.

[caramama]

@H-Bean's Mom - It's wonderful that you guys are doing so well and that you are working through so many issues!

[hedra]

@H-bean's mom, also - it's hard sometimes to see how I come across, especially when I'm surprised (I've been told that I was in denial when I was really just taken aback/surprised, and hadn't had time to digest the idea yet). So, well, I understand the 'wait, was that ME she's talking about?' thing. Glad that you digested and dealt and she grew and cries less.

By the way (for those who cannot bear crying), keep an eye out for your reaction to WHINING later - apparently it activates the same exact area of your brain as infant crying. People who react instantly to crying babies tend to also react rapidly to whining, and the kids learn very fast that it is an EFFECTIVE tool on ya. (Um, voice of experience, there...) And therefore they use it more. And it gets to be hard to extinct the behavior because the visceral 'must look at the bad sound' thing (grabs our attention even if not our focus) is sooooo good a feedback system for them, they can't give it up (and I can't stop looking when they whine. Really. CAN'T.).

Just a heads-up there...

[hedra]

For the over-giving thing, defining the roles or the 'area in which I'd really like your help 'spoiling' them...' can be a really useful guide. Generic spoiling is just spoiling, but targeted spoiling can be incredibly educational, valuable, powerful, and important. Spoil them on art! Spoil them on nature! Spoil them on music! My mom's role is enchantment - anything and everything enchanting is her territory. She's GREAT at it, and it was really useful to be able to hand her a definition to work with (also kept her from defining one that worked for her but not for me...). Good luck!

[Jan]

This will be Long.

I had a real epiphany about one of these awhile back. When I was 3 or 4 my original parents divorced. Their biggest issue was that my mom wanted more kids and he didn't. He frankly didn't want to cope with the ones he had (three from a previous marriage, then me). My mom recalls cleaning me and dressing me and feeding me before he came home in an attempt to show only the good side of having a baby. It didn't work, of course, and a lot of their pre-divorce fighting was to do with me and what was probably normal preschool behavior.

Well, when we had our Munchkin and she began to do things like CRYING and WHINING and other things that irritated her father, I could not cope. I didn't just try to be the Mom That Handles It All, I did it. If it was unpleasant for him in any way, I took it over. It hit me like a ton of bricks one day that I simply could not bear the idea of my child experiencing irritation from her father. Even now, probably 3 years after I first figured this out, there are tears in my eyes even thinking about his exasperated sigh when she woke up for the third time in the hours between 2 and 4 a.m. And I still cope with it every day. I desperately want for him to never say, "I just wish we could have one meal where they just eat what's put in front of them and nobody whines or screams." In fact, I desperately want him to never even THINK such a thing. I just want him to love them. And sadly, when he says or thinks those things, I can't help but leaping to that he-doesn't-love-them place.

The really amazing thing is that I don't even REMEMBER my life when my parents were still married, at least not consciously. It's sort of horrifying to think that I can be that strongly affected by something that I'm not even aware of.

Another issue that is, in a sense, harder (because it's an ongoing thing) is the mother-daughter relationship. My mom is a perfectionist and an extremely high achiever. I have never felt like I live up to her expectations. In high school I was smart, but never got really outstanding grades. I'm a marginal housekeeper. I've totally allowed parenting to overshadow my career and my work accomplishments reflect that. I married a man who hadn't been to college. I am overweight and can't bring myself to do much about that right now. Sometimes I forget to write thank-you notes. My car looks like a homeless person lives in it. Sometimes my kids respond to, "will you please help Grammy clean this up?" with "NO!".

You get the idea. I'm not the perfect child I once was (and I apparently was the easiest most perfect kid ever -- slept through the night at 8 days, potty trained myself at a year, did what I was asked how I was asked to do it, my biggest and apparently only crime was being a picky, slow eater). And I still struggle daily to remind myself that it's not my job to be her perfect child. And have trouble allowing myself to think that if I WERE to be her perfect child, I would be a better person.

So my issue is multi-part. Just the junk this creates between me and my mom is one part. I have a terrible knee-jerk reaction many of her interactions with my daughter (I had to literally SIT ON MY HANDS recently when she was 'helping' my daughter with a puzzle without even giving her a chance to trial and error it by herself.). And of course, I worry terribly about repeating this stuff as a parent. I open my mouth and my mother's words and voice come out: "I expect better of you" and I just cringe.

So there's where I'm stuck. Oy, I read it over and think I really need to go back to the therapist. I wish I'd bought a lifetime pass back in the 80s -- it would have totally paid off by now!

[pnuts mama]

i'm still on page one of the comments so i apologize for hogging space, but i wanted to respond to a few things that have struck me so far-

@caramama- we approached the CIO issue the same way- i'm happy to say that coming up on 3 years pnut is totally able to self-soothe, and we are pretty tuned in to the times when she can't and still needs us to help her through whatever. i'm wondering if some of my issues with that are from my infancy- one of the things i do know about my biomom/me is that i was a tough infant for her, cried a lot, and when my biodad would get home from job #2 she would hand me off and say "get her away from me!" i give her credit for trying to soothe me anyway (she was so young) and i also know that after she died we were shuttled around for a few months so i can only imagine how my attachment issues were shaped at that stage of my life. hmm. also makes me wonder if that had a lot to do with how i reacted when pnut would cry as an infant.
i also completely get what you're saying about needing to have my husband on board with knowing what my(and his) issues are to work this through together- i give him so much credit for being willing and able to journey with me together even with all the baggage i have. it can't be easy for him.

@hedra- the story of your golden brother is giving me a lot to chew on w/ my own relationship w/ my sister- i would be the more golden one and i need to think about how that effects her/us. also, the not being able to ask for help? i'm wondering of you think that relates to the needing control/compliance. b/c if i ask for help i am effectively admitting i am not in control of the situation and that is damn near impossible for me. lets not get into when i *do* ask for help and get let down.

@zenjen- oh, i just want to give you (and anyone else) with teeny kids bordering on FTT a big hug and say "yes, i know." the best thing we ever did was find a ped who is happy that pnut grows on her own curve, and is happy with progress. there are also plenty of resources in moxie's archives that have great tips on how to sneak in calories to your kids food. good luck!

@ ACJ- thanks for the rec on the book for dads- my husband is also a non-reader but i'm wondering if that wouldn't be a great fathers day gift for him. he has so much of his "angrydad" in him- and he is such a better daddy than his dad ever was/is. btw, i also avoided a pg test successfully for a week or so. guess who is 30 wks pg today? right. good luck with however it goes!!

[hedra]

@pnuts mama, I think the control thing is only a small part of it on the compliance. It's way more personal/interaction-related than just 'me not being in control of the situation/child' - or so I think, but hey, I've been wrong about my process before, too. Hmm. Worth a think-through. I do know that it is tied in a lot to the messages of worth (obedient) that my mom got from her parents. As in, obedient was the only way to heaven, obey the rules and only good things will happen, be proper and follow the rules of our religion and God will give you what you pray for (except it didn't un-dead her mother at the age of six), obedient children don't speak up, don't tell anyone when they're being mistreated, have no self, identity, or will... etc. Obedient children let themselves suffer because they are commanded to do so. That's really the core from my family line. Control was more about secrecy and hiding the pain, personal control of the 'leaking out of the not-normal stuff'. Not quite the same arena, I think? Maybe.

[clucey]

Excellent topic! And one I am doing research on - I am leading expectant parent groups and have included similar info!

The intention I have with my son is:
"I can handle your pain, frustration, anger, fussiness, etc (insert feeling here)". I may not do it perfectly - but it is always my intention.

I learned as a kid that my mom couldn't handle my feelings (to painful for her) - after years of therapy, graduate school in psychology and hours and hours of talking to my parents about that - I am finally able to feel and communicate them as well as set clear and firm boundaries with my mom (she still can't handle it when my son cries). But I do know her only intention come from love and trying to make him feel better - yes it took many many hours and expensive therapy to get to that acceptance!!

I second "Parenting from the Inside Out" Excellent, excellent book!

[caramama]

Okay, I've been sitting on something all day. And I'm just going to say it.

I know a lot of people wrote that they are worried that they won't love the second (or later) child as much as the first. hedra once said that you will be amazed at how much you love each child and that you really will love your later children as much as the first.

But my worry is that I might love a later child MORE than my first. I was especially worried in the earlier days when my little one was so very fussy all the time. Now, she is so precious and my heart is overflowing with love for her. But...

But what if my second (and possibly third) child is an easier child? Will I love that child more because he/she isn't as difficult as the first? Even though the first is so wonderful in so many ways.

I'm the youngest of three, as is my husband, so I'm starting to wonder if this line of thought I've struggled with has to do with that. I have always felt (secretly) that my parents loved me best. But recently my sister actually (half)joked to me that our parents liked her best. So now I'm thinking they just treated us each special in our own way which made us feel so loved, which is wonderful.

Anyway, another issue I'm struggling with out there. Someone please tell me that I will still love my first as much as I do now even though I might have other children that are easier. And I'll love them all just as much as each other, but in different ways. Or something that will make me feel better about this.

Wow. That was cathertic to actually say that.

[Julie]

Isn't it interesting that for many of us, we've chosen partners that have behaviors that resemble what our parents did that hurt us, as a way to fix it and make it better? Which is, in itself not a bad thing as long as we are aware and working toward getting past it. But interesting nonetheless.

[Bobbi]

@caramama If I had to be BRUTALLY honest with myself (oh the guilt!) I think I love my difficult child a tiny bit more than the other 3...I promise that you will love your first the same amount you do know, but after 4 kids what I have learned is this: the "quantity" of love is virtually the same, but I love each of my kids differently. I think I love them each how they need me to love them...

I hope that helps!

[Lisa]

Much to say, and think about, but dealing with an extended-family crisis. so just this:

@zenjen; I'd strongly suggest finding a pediatrician who gets breastfed babies' growth curves AND normal variation in growth patterns. My son went from fifth percentile at birth to 40% at six months, and now 3% weight/10% height at age 2.

I'm so glad my mom kept good records - with some variation that I chalk up to short- vs. long-term breastfeeding, that parallels my and my brother's growth very closely. We are now both slightly over average height, slightly under average weight, though it took a long time to get there - both of us looked 2+ years younger until college, then kept growing until 25 or so. If you and/or the father were similar, it could very likely be the kid's growth pattern and nothing more.

By the way, there is a medical term for the above - "congenital growth delay." As our ped. explained it, our 2-year-old is the size of the average 16-month-old, and if one x-rayed him, his bone development would tell the same story. She asked me: "And you hit puberty at?" "Fifteen." "Bingo. Not a problem, just a variation. He's developmentally on track and will probably follow your growth curve. As long as he's growing, I wouldn't worry much. We'll just keep an eye on it."

Have I said how much I love my pediatrician?

[JB]

My parents now have legal guardianship of two kids they've been foster-parenting for years, ages 7 and 8. This has meant that I got to watch them parent all over again, this time with the perspective of having my own kids. It's been a real eye-opener.

I wanted to chime in with the person who said that our truly loving relationships have tremendous power to heal. My husband had an abusive childhood and feels that the kids and I have taught him how to be a husband and dad, how to love. And he has taught me many things about anger and needing to please and "being a disappointment." I'm stronger and happier for being a mom, because I'm wiser about myself.

[Katie B.]

Oi. I know I'm going to have issues coming out my ears... My father (and the grandmother with whom we lived from the time I was about 5) was and is borderline personality and verbally and emotionally abusive. So I have scars and reaction behaviors from that. Also, I really don't know how a "normal" dad looks, so I don't really know how well I'll be *able* to share decisions and so on with DH. We do ok now, with it just being us, but... You all may also have guessed that I have control issues; not as bad as they could be, and better than they used to be, because I'm aware of it and can usually spot when I'm triggered in that way, but I just don't know how all this will play out with the baby, now due in about six weeks (I'm 34 weeks today). On the other hand, DH grew up in a family that's almost spookily normal, and is one of the sanest, most balanced people I know, and we already work together on helping smooth out my... other than normality. We *talk*, and I honestly think that's the most important thing. Even though he's not much for processing aloud, he understands that I do, and we're getting ever better at mentioning issues before they become major problems.

I don't remember who posted before about always keeping a corner of her mind ready to go, even though her marriage is great, because of how her parents' relationship turned out, but I feel you! Because my family was so dysfunctional, and because DH and I have enough points of major difference, I often have a voice reminding me to hedge my bets, because I don't know how this will turn out. It doesn't help that he's now the only one of his siblings who's never been divorced (although both of his sisters are now in fantastic relationships). On the other hand, I haven't really thought about that very much since I became pregnant, and I think this is the first time I've thought of it since we bought our house - both are life-changing events that will tie us together for the rest of our lives, whether or not we remain married. I also think the house is a statement of permanence to my lizard brain - he's not going to skip out on me, because neither of us could keep this place without the other. There's more to it, of course, but those are a couple of the threads.

Hedra, I would also love to see your Montessori Home stuff. My email (again) is eledwen AT gmail DOT com. I fully respect that it's copyrighted material, but I know a couple of other people that I think would love to see it, including an auntie who is a former Montessori teacher, if you don't mind me sharing it discreetly. Thanks!

[Lisa]

Hedra, I'd also love to see the Montessori Home document, if you'll share: lisa AT ampedit DOT com.

[eta]

@caramama--I often feel like I am just as confused about life and the world and myself as I was long before I even thought of having kids. And yet, someone let me have them. Keeping that in mind, I can also tell you that, when I look at my two kids, I love them both so much that comparing and contrasting has really fallen away from me, at least when I think about them. They both infuriate and amaze and astound me in both wildly different and exactly the same ways as each other that it's ridiculous to try to measure. Sometimes I think it's the same way that I trust and love the two women I've been friends with since elementary school--eons!--and no longer ever think of describing one or the other as my "best" friend. They are both indispensable. Maybe there's some beloved people and friends you can think of in a similar way to reassure yourself, or perhaps you'll find another touchstone to help with the confidence. Of course, there's days or topics or whatever, I think, that will make things or times seem closer or easier with one or the other, and my kids are still v tiny, so I might eat my words in a few years. But from here, from me, that's what it looks like. Hope this p.o.v. can help.

[Lisa]

Just caught up with the comments... Oh, Hedra, you nailed the CGT thing already!

I love this site.

[Lisa]

Aargh, that's CG*D*. doh.

[pnuts mama]

@caramama- i'm secretly hoping that the bean is easier to parent/love than the pnut was as an infant just to make up for what i expect will be the feelings of not-enough-for-both-of-them we talked about yesterday. but i still wonder if i won't resent his presence in our relationship to balance that out, also. we'll see.

@ hedra- hmm, yes, i see what you're saying about compliance/obedience vs. control as a kid- i was looking at it more through the lens of now as an adult, i.e. my controlling those around me to *be* compliant to my wishes. but you're understanding of it as an elder-to-be-respected issue stemming from religion would make a lot of sense as it comes from the momwrm- so that's something to think about for me.

[hedra]

@Lisa, we were kind of hoping that B's growth delay would be CGD, because then I could stop worrying and let him be. But no, his bone age was the same as his chronological age, and we had to find another answer. Fortunately, we did eventually find another answer (even though the first ped GI tried to convince me that he was 'just supposed to be short' - despite the late chart crossing, despite the mid-parental height being way on the top end of the scale, etc.). Now, I did have somewhat delayed growth spurt, but it wasn't true CGD, because while I grew through puberty and a bit past (big spurt at 14-15 years old), I stopped when I was about 18-19, not into my 20's. By the time we got to the dx, I knew more about normal and abnormal growth patterns than every doctor I spoke with. Kind of frustrating, at best.

@Bobbi and caramama, I love my kids different. I like them better at different times, though. Sometimes I connect with better at one time or another phase. The love is all one big love, though - I don't think I could separate out the love for one from the love for another - it's just one big love that they all swim in. How they swim in it, where, and how much I notice at a given time, that all varies. But... well, my LOVE overall got bigger with each child, but it wasn't love for one or another that was bigger, it was that with each, I loved all more. Does that make sense? Kind of like how you can love your DH more after you have kids than before (at least after you adjust to the whole 'wow the baby love is just more THERE than anything else, isn't it?' thing, if you got that). I love G more watching him with B and M and R. I love B more seeing him with M and R, and seeing how he's growing his relationship with G. I love M and R more as they get older and interact more with G and B. It all just gets bigger. And as they grow and become more and more themselves, even 'solo' I love them each bigger - but again, it is more of that 'all one big love' thing more than 'I love YOU X much, and I love YOU Y much, an I love you Z much...' I just love, overflowing, all-of-them. I can't separate it easily. Maybe that's weird, though. And it will probably end up being something they discuss with their own therapist (G: My mom didn't love me as a separate person, she loved me as one facet of the love for the entire family, I didn't get my OWN separate love! Therapist: Hmm. I see. How do you feel about that?)

Now, which one drives me nuts most? That's an easier thing to measure (at least on a moment-by-moment basis!).

I'll try to track down all the Montessori at Home requests - do keep in mind it is a draft. Oh, and most of the pictures are of our family, but some are extended family (a brother and his son) and a couple are stock photos (this wasn't for publication, and some photos I didn't have attribution for). (Caveat, caveat, which really means "dang, I hope they like it, and I hope it doesn't come off all stupid or unprofessional." Sigh, speaking of issues...)

[hedra]

If you requested a copy of the Montessori at Home thing, and didn't get it, let me know.

[Mommie Mentor]

This post makes me so happy! It contains what I consider to be a central theme for life. The theme I’m referring to is the quest to find “Why do I react like that or Why am I bothered by this, or Why is my child’s behavior driving me crazy?”

Everyone has issues in their lives, even if their public face says something else. And most of the time the love you have for your child is one of the only things powerful enough to make you willing to look to your self to see why this is happening.

Moxie said in the timeout post that I was one of you, but from a different generation. I’m turning 50 in 2 weeks, and her statement caused me to review of my life and look at my wounds—again. The biggest thing that came up for me this time was my discomfort with writing and being afraid to share my wisdom and what I know to be true when I write. Such a great gift—thanks Moxie!
After reading today’s posts I wanted to briefly share my recent journey. My details will be different than yours, but the way I looked for answers may help some of you with your journey. Let me explain.

I was raised by a mother who smacked my mouth, washed my mouth out with soap-can’t use that brand to this day, and put pepper in my mouth. My father always corrected my every move and made me feel small.

I find it amazing that I do what I do for a living—I’m a public speaker and parent educator, a profession that requires a great deal of confidence in the words that come out of my mouth. Yet my childhood showed me that the words coming out of my mouth always got me in trouble.

Blogging/writing is forcing me to deal with my childhood wound. I don’t have the same reactions when I give a public seminar, strange isn’t it?
When I post on a site, the child with-in worries I’ll be told I’m wrong and punished or flamed! See where I’m going with all of this. Who I am today and how I deal with some of the things in my life came from my experiences, decisions and reactions to my childhood.

It is always wise to look back at your childhood to help you find the answers to what’s bothering you today.
Sometimes a wound is created because of a reaction your parent had to her parent, as was the case for me.

My mother was raised to fear her father. She insisted that we be perfect so she would never have to explain to her father why her children had misbehaved.
My father was raised by 3 women who corrected him all the time, he felt he had no voice. When he had us he repeated the same behavior and corrected us every chance he got.
I’ve learned that my parents did the best they could do considering the circumstances of their lives.

Here’s why I’m sharing all of this.
The results of the way my parent’s treated me surfaced when I had children, it was deeply buried until something my child did struck the cord.

It all came home to roost one day when my 3 yr. old didn’t do as I asked him and he expressed himself with a sassy attitude on top of it!
As he was expressing himself I became aware that my hand was moving toward him to hit him!
I stopped, held him and we both cried. That was the moment I realized I had a lot of personal work to do if I had any hope stopping this from happening to another generation!

I’m sharing this to illustrate how important it is for parents to look into whatever is pushing their buttons. The buttons that are being pushed today were installed as a child. That also means we have a great responsibility to OUR children to stop and think so we don’t pass the wound to another generation.

[hedra]

Oh, and it is pretty big, even as a PDF. So it might get jammed in some inboxes (spindle/fold/mutilate internet style).

[hedra]

Sorry, that came out odd following Mommie Mentor's comment. Oy.

Actually, though, what she said is really the core of the Montessori in the home thing. It goes back to the whole speech by Marian Pearl that I attended back in March. That message being that we are responsible to our children in some unique ways, and one of our responsibilities is to prove to our children that the world is full of hope - that we brought them into not a world of pain with no future but pain, but a world of hope with a future of hope. And if we just SAY it, they'll know we're lying. We have to prove it.

And proving it is by living it, and living it is by being agents of hope for our own children. Doing that means not repeating the pain without examination, but stepping back, using the pain and conflict as a sign post only, and solving the problems under the pain. At the very concrete level, that is making the space around my child usable for him or her, and trying to provide them a respectful, safe, and positive place in which to live. At the more abstract level, it is encouraging teamwork, self-respect, autonomy, interdependence (without 'dependence'), cooperation, leadership, observation/analysis/problem-solving, courtesy, kindness, and consideration, and appreciation for self, others, and environment (built and natural). All that is just Montessori all over. It's also found in a lot of other places, but Maria Montessori was an early proponent of being an agent of hope for children through how they are taught, and in that way enabling them to become agents of hope in the wider world. Let them grow up without all that pain, and see what happens to the world... the more we do this, the more hope we create.

[Helen]

Wow! What a thread! Moxie, thank you so much for raising this issue.

Hedra, any chance you'd share your doc with yet another reader? If so, hlnsmama at gmail dot com.

Thanks.

[Suki]

@Mar -- Try reading anything by Pema Chodron (for example, The Places that Scare You or Comfortable with Uncertainty). Her books are all about your exact question: what do you DO when you recognize that someone/something has hit a trigger inside of you... Good stuff...

[andrea]

GREAT discussion. Unfortunately the time difference between most of you guys and me in Oz means I come into these discussions when they're all but over ...

Anyway, I think my biggest issue is fear of rejection by my girls (11mo twins). My father was in and out of my life - more out than in, and not in at all during my teen years - and I do not see him at all now, by my own choice. I do not have a close relationship with my mother, who was very dominating when I was a kid, though she has backed off now. I would hate for the girls to have the same sort of relationship with me as adults that I do with my mother.

Those times when my attempts at comfort when they cry don't work? I feel rejected. When they push me away when I cuddle them or turn their faces away when I go to kiss them? Feel rejected. Don't smile when I get home after a couple of hours out? Rejected. It doesn't matter than many times my comforting DOES work, or that they often lean right in for a cuddle and wrap their little arms around me, or that frequently they will beam when I get home and crawl right over to me. It doesn't matter that I sometimes understand intellectually why they seem to be rejecting me in that moment. Each perceived rejection feels harsh and raw and makes me want to reject them right back in self-defence. "You don't want a cuddle? Fine, off you go, over there. My comforting isn't working? Fine, I won't even bother." I am slowly, slowly getting better at responding calmly and not defensively but god it is tough.

@Lisa F: Your comment on the first page re perfectionism really hit home. I expect to be able to do everything that I care about well and to NOT be able to do something, such as calm my crying baby, makes me feel intensely anxious and explosive and "not enough" (that last of which to a degree is built in with twins because you often just can't meet both their needs at once when they're little).

The rejection issue (plus my need for control/compliance) ties in with one of the big bugbears I have at the moment: The girls have started to refuse to let me feed them at some meal times. They can feed themselves finger food but are nowhere near being able to use utensils themselves. They're usually fine at breakfast (yoghurt & fruit), but as the day goes on, they will often only eat what they can shove in their mouths themselves. Not only that, when I try to spoon feed them they will slap my hand & spoon away and send food flying. Cue intense anger on my part. (PLUS anxiety and catastrophising re "Now they'll go to bed hungry and they'll wake up more and yet again I won't get enough sleep and I can't cope and blah blah".) It came to a head the other night when I was doing the evening routine on my own and they refused to eat a single mouthful of the pasta I made for them. I had to just walk away and leave them in their high chairs for 10 minutes, I was so angry. It feels like a rejection of the food I have lovingly prepared for them (and that, usually, they have loved last time they had it) and a rejection of me as the one giving them sustenance. Knowing intellectually why they are behaving like that (asserting independence, wanting to control what goes into their mouths, etc) doesn't make it easier to stop the emotions. Meal times are already becoming a battleground and I so don't want it that way. I have changed things so that now their dinners are tapas-style finger foods (frantically trying to think of nutritious and filling finger foods that need little prep, besides butter beans, diced avocado, diced feta/other cheeses, pieces of asparagus or green beans, frozen peas, pita or tortillas with hommus, pieces of fruit ...). But I know there will come a time when even food they can feed themselves will sometimes be rejected and I need to work out how to deal with my emotions then.

Whew.

PS. hedra, another eager reader here, if that's okay. ganda30b at yahoo dot com dot au.

[Christi]

I love this site so much.

I haven't read the book *Giving the Love that Heals* yet (though I want to), but based upon what a friend of mine says, it also seems to raise the issue of how triggers from our past (particularly when our children reach certain ages/anniversaries of events) can affect our parenting...and how by parenting our children we can heal ourselves.

Anyway, thanks so much, Moxie, for this topic.

[zenjen]

@Lisa-Thank you so much for your post. I showed it to my husband who said he was pretty small too as child and only went through a real growth spurt when he got to college, sort of along the same pattern. I will, very soon, be considering a new pediatrician though I do really like my current one despite this issue (I already switched once).

@Mommy mentor-I love love love your website and if I still lived in Phoenix I would be attending one of your seminars. I am so touched that you shared your history with us.

@hedra-You are so inspiring. Your post about being agents of hope is inspiring. A good friend of mine was a Montessori teacher for 3-6 and I find her a wonderful source of information and also inspiration. I am seriously considering a Montessori preschool if I can convince my DH too (he's pushing for a Jewish preschool since we are Jewish in a relatively non-J area). I've read several books my friend has given me and would love to read your draft. My email is zenjen seventy-five at hotmail dot com. AND a belated thank you for your post re: weight gain. I am open to exploring the possiblity it might be metabolic or GI but I am thinking it's probably more related to genetics. Though your details about hypermotility and joints makes me wonder since DS seems to have both...something to bring up. Thanks for the book recommedation too

[pnuts mama]

@andrea- i am so glad that you are making progress on the attachment issues- good for you!! right on that it is most probably influenced by what you experienced as a child. even better that you are putting it all together and being easier on yourself. i know how hard that can be. i also know how much of a battle the food thing is. omg i could have written your whole paragraph back when pnut was that age. oh, yes. i know if you search moxies archives there have been more than a few posts that have dealt specifically with foods that little ones will eat that are nutritious and calorie-packed. one poster in particular had a huge list based on the fact that they ate kosher- i wish i could remember it. keep up the great work!!

[caramama]

Thank you all so much. Everyone's comments really did help. I'm actually already feeling better about the love I have for my current and any future children. I finally felt good enough to talk it over with my husband, and as I was talking about it, I realized I am not so worried anymore. That's because of you guys. Thanks again!

[chaser]

@ anonThisTime, THANK YOU. I’ve been reading and semi-writing all day, trying to put my finger on something, and you set something loose.

I don’t have trouble asking for help – when I think it’s warranted. My trouble is that I feel that I should not need help. If things aren’t going well it’s because I’m slacking, or I have neglected to cultivate the skills I need in order to have an orderly and satisfying and well-balanced life, or I’m just being temporarily scatterbrained and incompetent and had better pull it together. I don’t even think “I’m no good at this”; usually I have a decent opinion of myself, which reinforces my feeling that the responsibility is all mine. I was an A student too, and an only, and grew up feeling wonderfully accomplished and celebrated by my family. Which really goes to show you that you can’t win, as a parent, because I know my father thought the world of me, but because I perceived that to be because of my excellent performance at school and elsewhere, I think I need to keep performing in order to … deserve love.

My mother, meanwhile, was incredibly private. As an adult I found out she carried unimaginable emotional burdens, but she never shared any of them with us. I think she even used her short final illness to purge her worldly goods of any evidence of her inner life.

Enter my preschooler, who feigns helplessness. When J refuses to get himself dressed, whining “I can’t do it myself, I want you to do it,” I want to strike out like a snake. He SHOULD NOT NEED HELP. And he doesn’t – he can dress himself just fine – he’s a Montessori kid too! It’s just more fun for him if we collaborate on getting him dressed. I understand this. I understand also that it’s normal, part of not wanting to leave us to go to school, etc. But in the moment I feel TRAPPED, helpless, and furious, like my only options are to force-dress him and be rough on purpose to punish him for bullshitting me, or to put him in the car in his pajamas and hope he is shamed into changing his clothes when we get there. He should not need help. He should take pride in doing it by himself. He should not whine and cling and pretend he can’t do it alone. ** I ** would not do that.

Issue identified. (Issue whacks me in the head.) I guess I will sit here and pant for a little while, and then think what to do next. And this is just ONE issue. It’s not like there’s only one.

[Lisa]

@andrea, I saved that list of foods that pnuts mama referred to. If you can't find it online, let me know and I'll send it - lisa AT ampedit DOT com.

[Amy]

@pnuts mama--Actually, she spends tons of time with them. She is very into creating memories with them and is happy to spend one-on-one time with them. She demonstrates her love physically as much as she does materially. My problem with this from an emotional level is that she claims to do it to make up for what she thinks I'm not giving them as opposed to it being a bonus for them to have both an attentive mother AND an attentive grandmother. And I *am* an attentive mother. So, she makes me feel guilty for having 3 of them, and she makes me feel guilty for not giving them everything they want (though she'll tell you she doesn't buy them everything they want... but she does). And on it goes...

[Maria Wood]

Whoa. Wow. I love this site, Moxie, and all you commenters. Of course, exactly what you've all said… the disproportionate responses I have with P (4.5yo daughter) are all about my own issues. I often don't recognize them. I have a really easy time envisioning the responses I want to have in times of calm and a really hard time remembering/putting them into practice when they're needed.

The first couple of years of parenting were so easy for me! A relationship that wasn't even *supposed* to have boundaries - woo hoo! I was the perfect mother. I literally thought I could be the perfect mother for my child. I silently and smugly pshaw-ed the notion that no parent is perfect. Then we moved out of state, she turned 3, and my demons awoke.

Compliance - yes, pushes my buttons. Anger/emotions – yes, push my buttons (sometimes I get this one right, respond appropriately, helpfully… sometimes I can't tell which way is North and help exactly no one in the face of P's big emotions). Dawdling, dilly-dallying - yes, push my buttons especially because this is one of my big faults these days. I have the attention span of a coked-up gnat and have trouble following through with peeing, much less getting out of the house on time.

One thing I've had some measure of success with is sleep. I had major sleep issues as a child, lay awake for hours every night paralyzed with a fear of death (which I now recognize as a fear of annihilation stemming from abuse/neglect that left me feeling as though I already didn't exist). As an adult I continued to struggle with insomnia up until the moment I gave birth, and once the sleep-deprived part of this adventure is over it may come back. So, when P started not going to sleep when I thought she "should" at around age 3, I could not contain my rage, panic, utter craziness. We had some scenes of which I am deeply ashamed, involving screaming, door-slamming, and general out of control, non-adult behavior.

Somehow it has gotten a lot better. Like, a LOT. I don't exactly know why. Part of it is she's older and sleeping better. But even when she doesn't, even when she went through a couple of weeks last month of waking up and keeping me up for hours every night at 4 am, I did not struggle to maintain my adulthood. I did work around this, around realizing that I am the grown-up and my kid-feelings did not belong to the current situation. She always does go to sleep, and my ancient panic that she would never go to sleep, that furthermore the night would never end, and that there was no one to help me – that panic does not take hold when I can cling to a couple of simple mantras like "I am the grown-up here" and "she always goes to sleep eventually". Just touchstones, really, to keep me connected to the present reality instead of diving headfirst into the old stuff.

A long, blathering, probably incoherent post. But it's late at night and there'll be a new topic tomorrow so hopefully not too many people will have to suffer through it. Moxie, just, thank you. And you too, Hedra, and caramama, and all you wonderful understanding women out there in this strangely connected little community.

[onehappycow]

@hedra - I'd like to see the Montessori thing as well, pretty please. Email me at onehappycow at gmail dot com. Thanks!

[Julie]

I agree...this is an amazing group of people. I think I need to save many of the comments about how your own issues in childhood rear up and hit you with your own child so that I can distill them down for a future conversation with my husband about his over-the-top reaction to Alex's crying. It makes him extremely anxious, stressed, and downright angry. At ME (for not stopping it? Controlling it? Who knows) because at least he knows enough to not be angry with Alex. Thank goodness, but still not good for Alex to see Daddy get angry with Mommy just because he is having a crying fit. I know he would be willing to talk about it, look at it, and definitely think about it.....I'm unwilling to send him to this site because, well....it's mine. You guys are mine. And I share things here in a way that I wouldn't want him to see and be taken out of context. This is my safe place....different from the safe place I have with him. Also, (for anyone out there who may be wondering though I doubt it because it's one of millions out there) I'm taking my link to my blog off because my husband was feeling the intention of that space was for family members to see pictures of Alex and read about Alex. When I find the time to get my own site up I'll put a link back up.

Thanks Moxie, this site is so much more than an online parenting forum...it's really a forum for how to be your best self, in and outside of parenting.

[andrea]

@ pnuts mama: Thanks. & congrats on reaching 30 weeks pgnt! Perhaps "congrats" is not quite the right sentiment ... that was just a big one for me when I was pregnant with the girls - a lovely, round, safe number, and the 3 at the start meant I was in the home stretch.

@ Lisa: Will do. Thanks.

@ chaser: Much of what you said resonated with me, too. And what DO you do next? I'm not sure what to do apart from be aware and mindful of the issues and constantly try to be calm when they crop up rather than go with the instinctive, negative behaviour/reaction.

[mo]

Hi, jumping into today's post rather late but first as usual I just love this site and all the posters. As one poster mentioned, you guys are so in touch with yourselves. I find that so impressive and inspiring.

I just had to pipe in that I could completely relate to both Julie (the one that constantly questions staying with her husband because of her childhood experiences) and with AnonForThis (the one that doesn't know how to ask for help).

I too am always wondering if my marriage will make it. I too always have one thought in the back of my mind as to how we would split things ups, etc.; that divorce is always an option. Not the best approach to marriage. Luckily, my husband comes from a much more traditional childhood and has a different approach to marriage - that it is going to last and that there is no reason to think otherwise.

As for the help thing, I think part of it is that my parents were not in a position to help so what was the point in asking. I think there was also a part of me that wanted to be better than them so I needed to be able to do everything myself and do it well. I still carry some of that in that I must be a "great" parent no matter what the cost and must do it on my own otherwise I feel weak (which in my head I know is stupid and wrong but I am still "stuck" in that mode at this point).

I have seen a therapist and she was really helpful but it was pre-babies. But one thing she said which stuck with me (and I can now really see how it comes into play) - she said something along the lines of be careful not to have a knee jerk reaction away from your parent's style and go too far the other way to over compensate. As what you needed from your mom/dad that you didn't get and you now do to the extreme to your child(ren), maybe that child(ren) don't need that from you just because that was what you would have wanted. [Okay, one other thing I've noticed on this site, you guys are awesome writers and that is one of my least strongest areas - this post shows that!!]

[leafy]

wow - just wow. I've been an avid reader for about 2 years now, almost as long as I've been a parent, and this is the first time I've posted.

firstly I'd like to say thanks to this amazing community of women. you've all helped me much more than you know.

and secondly,
@hedra: I too would like a copy of your montessori pdf please, if you're still comfortable with sending it out (pirateteg at yahoo dot com). thanks :o)