So I'm not doing well at getting to sleep by 10 or 10:30 at all. I just have so much to do, and my cycles seem to be off. I could totally fall asleep at 7 pm, but then get a second wind when I have all that stuff to do later on, so I end up staying up until midnight (or later!) and then I'm a wreck in the morning.
It doesn't help that the little one isn't falling asleep until 9:30 some days(!) and then he wakes up at 6:15. (Yes, I've tried taking away the nap, and it does nothing except make it worse for everyone.)
But I read this and realized I'm not the only one: One-third of workers catching zzz's on job. Holy crap, people--you can sleep at work?! If 1/3 of workers are actually falling asleep at work, how many of us are just tired?
And I guess I shouldn't feel so bad, since the average wake-up time is 5:35 am. That's just brutal.
I should also feel lucky, because once I finally do go to sleep I have no problems falling asleep and staying asleep (cats notwithstanding). I know some of you are having problems with that, though, so I thought those of us who sleep well could share with those of you who don't.
My top tips for sleep:
1. Don't have kids or pets. (Ha! OK, I know it's not really funny, but at least it reinforces the point that it's really not your fault.)
2. T-Tapp. Honestly, they should put me on the payroll at this point, but that was the first thing I noticed. Within two days of starting T-Tapp I was falling asleep and staying asleep. It helps your lymphatic system and your hormones, and somewhere in there it becomes easier to sleep.
3. Magnesium. It helps your body relax, and shortages can increase anxiety. Some people do foot soaks in warm water and magnesium oil a couple times a week. Others just take a calcium-magnesium supplement about 20 minutes before they go to bed.
4. Omega 3s and B vitamins. Help with the hormonal balance and decrease stress, so you can fall asleep.
5. Water! If you find that you end up in that half-sleep state in which you're asleep but it's not restful, you may be dehydrated. Drink some more water for a few days in a row and see if that helps.
6. Actually go to bed. That episode of Lost will still be on your DVR tomorrow.
Anyone else?
15 min walk outside.
and for those of us who lay in bed for HOURS sometimes I find doing some simple math can be just the ticket to stop worrying about money and when the little one will crawl and knock me right. Say couting by 3's backwards starting at 100....
Posted by: sheSaid | March 03, 2008 at 09:46 AM
not be pregnant- HA! does anyone else remember the third trimester insomnia? not there yet but i am getting back to the constant need to pee three drops phase...sigh...
we have blackout fabric on our windows which helps, and we bought a new mattress from necessity in january which is the most delightful thing on the planet...
daylight savings time starts again next week (yay!) which will help my crazy internal clock get back on track, hopefully pnut, too (we too, moxie are experiencing the frustration of a kid who does not want to go to sleep at normal time, then will wake up crazy early, and try and skip the nap (or at least hold out for hours)...it's not as bad as having a newborn, but, it's no fun.
Posted by: pnuts mama | March 03, 2008 at 09:53 AM
1/3 of workers are sleeping on the job??? I can't even nap at home on the couch!
I have no additionaal tips, but exercise seems to be the thing that works best for me. My biggest problem is just going to bed at a decent hour...at least it seems that I am not alone!
Posted by: Beth | March 03, 2008 at 09:55 AM
I also suffer from the second wind that you describe. There are many nights when I fall asleep next to my son while putting him to bed at around 7:15. Then 15-30 minutes later stagger out to the living room to make/eat dinner and get on with my life/responsibilities after that and find that I cannot fall asleep at the appropriate time.
My daughter has had a cough lately, really only at night, which does not seem to bother her at all, but keeps ME awake for hours. My husband can fall asleep/stay asleep through all kinds of kid noises and restlessness, but I cannot, even if they are in a different room.
I was an insomniac way before the kids. But I wasn't so tired then. Now I just feel like I am operating at about 60% brain capacity all the time.
My tip is that if you have to get up (to get a drink, to go to the bathroom, etc) not to turn on bright lights. I think it can mess with circadian rhythms.
Posted by: Kate | March 03, 2008 at 09:57 AM
Figure out which is the spouse that can fall asleep during anything, and have the other one go to bed earlier.
I find that I have a hard time getting to sleep some nights, but once I'm asleep, I'm out (luckily). If my husband goes to bed at the same time as me I can't fall asleep because he falls asleep right away, breathes loudly, and annoys me by the very fact that he's asleep and I'm not. So I go to bed 10 minutes earlier than him so that I can be asleep or nearly asleep by the time he comes to bed. Works pretty well most nights.
Posted by: Maura | March 03, 2008 at 10:09 AM
Depending on your house configuration, sleeping arrangements, and age of your child(ren), earplugs. If a coughing 4 year old down the hall is waking you up, or you awaken at every little settling snort on the bay monitor, earplugs might help, and they wouldn't keep you from hearing a major hollering catastrophe. Unfortunately I have found that earplugs do nothing when the toddler in bed with you decides to sleep horizontally (what is UP with that?)
Posted by: flea | March 03, 2008 at 10:14 AM
I discovered that if I can hold my dreams in my head - just the vague outline of what I was dreaming about like people and places...not necessarily details, when I go back to bed (after soothing a sick toddler for an hour at 2 AM for example) if I put that vague outline back in my head and let my mind wander around that theme/space again it will follow the known path back to sleep. Not with the goal of going back into that same dream, but the familiar path back to that nonsense thinking that is dreaming. Works like a charm every time for me. Even when I'm having trouble going to sleep at the beginning of the night.
Posted by: Julie | March 03, 2008 at 10:28 AM
Suggestion #1 might be difficult to accomplish, but at the least, try to keep the kids and pets out of the bedroom! I can't tell you how many times friends and relatives have complained about sleeping poorly because the animals in their beds are keeping them awake. If you have to have something snoring in your bed, it ought to be your lover, not your dog. Your dog will deal with sleeping in the living room.
Speaking of lovers, sex definitely helps with falling asleep. I wonder if the challengers who had "have more sex" as one of their three challenges are getting more sleep as a result? If they're getting *less*, they must really be doing something right!
Posted by: Summer | March 03, 2008 at 10:47 AM
Posted this in Moxie's birthday funnies but it seems to be relevant to the current discussion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmwqpHsMExg
I have no idea how you keep a loving, wants-to-be-with-us cat out of a bedroom that doesn't have a door. Even if we managed to keep her out of the room, she'd sit in the hall and yodel.
My main problem is turning off the stress!
Posted by: Shelley | March 03, 2008 at 11:24 AM
I also get that second wind thing. What really blows is that I'm naturally nocturnal but I work during the day. So....
My wonder-sleep device is the ipod. I have 2 long tracks of ocean wave sound on, repeating all night long. (no music, just the water sound) it's glorified white noise, really soothing. Also, when I lay down to go to sleep I do a body relaxation meditation where I start with my feet and go through all my bits. That really knocks me out, it feels WONDERFUL, and it only takes about 10 minutes.
PS My sister also sent me a dolphin track but it kept me up all night because they sound too much like a toddler yelling for me in the middle of the night... So I don't recommend dolphins.
Posted by: jessica | March 03, 2008 at 11:29 AM
In addition to the things already mentioned, I find that writing in my journal right before bed often helps when I'm having trouble shutting down my mind. It allows me to get my thoughts out of my mind instead of ruminating on them all night long.
Posted by: Jojo | March 03, 2008 at 11:36 AM
I love Moxie's first tip and pnuts mama's don't be pregnant! So true!
I agree with Summer's tip about sex before bed! I am so tired afterwards, that I just want to roll over and go to sleep. Ha!
Also, if you try to go to bed consistently at a specific time each night, your body will (supposedly) start shutting down at that time every night. (Same with getting up in the mornings.) This is why consistent bedtimes for kids is so important, and it is supposed to work for adults too.
And no coffee after 1:00 in the afternoon. I've had to cut out an afternoon cappiccino because I've been getting that second wind on the days I have it.
My other tips have been covered by sheSaid (mine is counting backward from 100 really concentrating on the numbers, but I like the idea of simple math even better) and Kate (don't turn on lights if you get up).
Posted by: caramama | March 03, 2008 at 11:49 AM
Heh, I came over to Ask Moxie to post to the 60-day update challenge that I have been SUCKING at getting to bed early. The cats are nice enough to (mostly) only wake us up a few minutes before the alarm goes off.
My getting to bed/sleeping better tips: exercise, consider cutting out caffeine, and stop eating at least an hour before bed. It'll help you sleep better, and I find it also mentally gets me in "thinking about bed" mode, and increases the likelihood I'll get to bed at a decent time.
Posted by: Rosemary Grace | March 03, 2008 at 12:00 PM
Mine's light related. Eliminate all of it. Even something as low-light as your alarm clock or the led in your smoke detector can be enough to keep you from a full, deep sleep. If you have to have the clock showing, I've found red led's give off less light than green ones.
Posted by: Kelly | March 03, 2008 at 12:38 PM
I am having the same problem – but my daughter goes to bed at 8:30 instead of 7 and I fall asleep for 1-2 hours instead of 15-30 minutes. So at 11 pm I'm staggering around the house trying to get the dishwasher started and check in on email, but way too groggy to actually accomplish anything.
Posted by: Maria | March 03, 2008 at 12:39 PM
pnuts mama I am so there with you.
We are less than 8 weeks away and if it isn't the peeing every second (seemingly) then it is the panda kicking me or crying from teething. And if it's none of those then it's my own anxiety about adding baby 2.0 in the mix and the fact that we still don't have a name nor have I even remotely begun thinking about the few things that we will need to purchase for the new addition.
Posted by: z | March 03, 2008 at 01:07 PM
I second the advice about walking outside for 15 mins or so, particularly during times when the baby has you up a lot at night. The sunlight helps tell your body that its day, so that your body will know when it is night, even if you aren't letting it sleep when it normally does. It is the same advice as you get for jet lag, which makes sense.
Posted by: Cloud | March 03, 2008 at 01:22 PM
I have a couple of ideas that might help. Some of them are kind of involved/ expensive, but they might help your sleep.
1. Take a shower or short bath before bed.
2. Make your room off limits to anything that you don't love. i.e. papers, laundry, work stuff, etc. Clear away clutter on surfaces and floors.
3. Cover windows with something heavy/ line curtains with blackout fabric. Helps keep out light and noise.
4. Sleep on something comfortable. A thick memory foam mattress topper may help, or a down feather bed, or cozy sheets (velour, high thread count cotton, satin, fleece), etc. And the next time you buy a mattress, if you can, spring for a Good Mattress. It's sooo worth it in terms of quality sleep. Also, pillows that are right for you. If Firm isn't working, try some that are really soft instead. You might be surprised.
5. White Noise of some Sort
6. Turn down the thermostat, keeping extra blankets handy.
7. I second Jojo's journal suggestion... I keep a pad and paper by my bed to jot down things that are keeping my mind awake. That helps a lot.
8. Massage yourself, or better, have someone else massage you, with pleasantly- scented lotion or oil. Relaxes muscles, mind, and you wake up with really soft skin.
Lastly, and I don't know if this stems from my love for many, many stuffed animals in my bed as a child, but when I can't sleep I run my fingers through my husbands hair, caressing him gently, and that puts me right to sleep. Is that wierd???
Sweet Dreams...
Posted by: joy | March 03, 2008 at 01:24 PM
Regular exercise makes for regular sleeping patterns. For me anyway.
Posted by: GS | March 03, 2008 at 01:28 PM
moxie
i so feel you, we have benn on the 9:30 to 5:30 sleep pattern for months now and i just cant get everything done before 11:30. Its exhausting!
Posted by: ireps | March 03, 2008 at 01:40 PM
we just stumbled on a new trick to get into bed...if you have a mac computer there is a feature to turn on a voice that announces the time every half hour. this has been really helpful because it doesn't let time just slip away in the evening in front of the tv. once it announces 9 then 9:30 i feel the need to go up to bed. hope this helps. if you don't have a mac maybe a clock that announces the actual time would help.
Posted by: Michelle | March 03, 2008 at 02:23 PM
Aie! Not only have I stunk at the getting to bed early part of the challenge, but le Petit has some sort of sixth sense at the moment and manages to wake up about twenty minutes after I finally drift off to sleep.
Since most of the trouble I've had getting to sleep lately stems from the laundry list of Urgent Things To Get Done Soon running through my head, my plan to fall asleep more easily is:
1) Actually write down the to do list on paper during the day instead of obsessing over it at night.
2) Just do the darn taxes this week, already.
Posted by: Parisienne Mais Presque | March 03, 2008 at 02:32 PM
@z- hey, congrats on being 8 weeks away! that is awesome! we have hopefully many more weeks than that but are also going through the "omg we were crazy to think we could handle #2" and really have no name of worth, which sucks! we knew pnuts name from the get-go. i hate not having a name for this one, who we call "baby brother" or "boy". how pathetic is that? a few times i thought we had a name and then come to find out that my husband is "over it"- so we go back to the default name that i am happy with that he's not crazy about...sigh. it doesn't help that other people are suggesting truly awful names to us, either seriously or in jest. i guess we'll know when we know.
there are a few things i suppose we'll have to get for this little guy (there i go again) but i'm hoping he doesn't mind my using his older sisters pink bath towel or whatever when the time comes.
Posted by: pnuts mama | March 03, 2008 at 02:36 PM
I have trouble getting back to sleep after fixing toddler blankets at 2am in the morning. I have found that if I cover the clocks so I don't know what time it is I can fall back asleep faster. Sound machines are also great. Homedics makes one that Target sells for about $10. It has about 5 settings.
Posted by: Alyssa | March 03, 2008 at 03:19 PM
I'm a suffering sleeper so I have no advice for the nights, but I do have suggestions for the daytime. My daughter's lovely 4 month sleep regression really set my exhaustion into high gear. Then I was introduced to some really great supplements that have made a HUGE difference! Sorry for putting in a plug but my friend introduced me to Isotonix Acai with Advanced Energy and Isotonix B-Complex. Of course I try to get as much sleep as I can, but when Babylicious just won't let me, it really helps me get through the day. It's sold exclusively through Market America so if you know any distributors ask them about it or you can visit my friend's website www.marketamerica.com/healthystop. Again, sorry for the plug Moxie but I am totally swearing by this stuff!
Posted by: Madi's Mama | March 03, 2008 at 03:25 PM
Speaking of putting me on the payroll...I don't want to always be the one to bring up Dr. Ferber, but...
That nighttime "second wind" is a scientific fact. You know how sometimes you try to get your little one to nap just a few hours before their final bedtime and they treat you like you just pulled out their fingernails, "What, me sleep??" Well, there is truly a period of time after your afternoon sleepy siesta moment where you totally wake back up, and trying to go to sleep is futile.
Solution: Shift your sleep times. Ferber explains all in his book--and he isn't just talking about babies, children or teens. He means all human beings. Check his book out from the library--make sure to get the updated edition.
Posted by: attiton | March 03, 2008 at 03:43 PM
pnuts mama.....don't worry. Baby Boy will not mind the pink stuff. Alex absolutely adores pink......pink purse, pink cell phone, pink kitty slippers......and he does not have an older sister.
Posted by: Julie | March 03, 2008 at 03:54 PM
@Madi's Mama, I'd be wary of the Isotonix Acai with Advanced Energy if you're nursing. It has guarana, which is a stimulant that can go through breastmilk, so could keep your baby up. Which is exactly what you *don't* want.
@attiton, the problem with shifting my sleep schedule is that there are these other elements that can't shift in time. If it could all flow on my schedule, I'd be sleeping like I used to back in the day. I love the theory, but the practice seems impossible to implement.
@jessica: I'm totally laughing about the dolphin track...
Posted by: Moxie | March 03, 2008 at 04:20 PM
Hey everyone! Totally off topic, but I just found an email from Amazon in my inbox saying that Wonder Weeks is now available for $25! Just wanted to share, since there has been much discussion on here bemoaning the fact that it's been so hard to come by at a reasonable price. So go get 'em! :-)
Posted by: Suzie | March 03, 2008 at 04:25 PM
I had insomnia before I had a kid, so in a way, that prepared me well for being a mother! My DH, who needs a minimum of 9-10 hours to feel like a human suffers much more than I do if something disrupts our sleep.
I'm an incredibly light sleeper (as is my DS, oh JOY), so I've slept with a sound machine for ages. The DS sleeps with one as well. I also second the "no lights of any kind", including the accusing stare of my alarm clock.
Funnily enough, sex wakes me up and gives me energy! We usually have it in the early evening after DS goes to sleep, and it puts my DH to sleep, but energizes me for the rest of the evening.
Posted by: meggiemoo | March 03, 2008 at 04:55 PM
Moxie, from your original post and your late comment it sounds like you are suffering from two problems: (1) too much to do and (2) inability to fall asleep when you try to go to bed early. Nothing sucks more than laying in bed trying to sleep when you have a gazillion things you need to do.
For problem #1, I use the list making method Parisienne mentioned. When things are really crazy, I keep paper next to my bed so that I can write down something if it comes to me when I'm close to sleep or if I wake up in the middle of the night.
For problem #2... I don't know. I have this problem when Pumpkin shifts her schedule or Hubby and I try a new way of dividing up the night and I suddenly need to go to bed earlier to get my fair share of sleep. I can tell you that it seems to sort itself out after a few nights if I keep going to bed at my new bedtime and trying to sleep. I'd think about what helps you with mild jet lag, too, because that is a fairly similar thing.
Posted by: Cloud | March 03, 2008 at 05:48 PM
@ Moxie, if you can't shift your sleep schedule, how about shifting the little one's? I'm with Attiton and a close reader of Ferber. One thing he points out is that a later bedtime (like 9:30) may mean you are missing the earlier bedtime window and you're into the "forbidden zone" for sleep. If you try to put the little one down earlier, like ridiculously earlier, you may get success AND a later wake-up time. This worked for us- we had an 8:30pm-5 am schedule, with three naps. One day I tried putting B down at 6:15 instead when he seemed sort of tired, thinking I'd be hanging out with him wide awake around 11pm. But I didn't hear a peep until 7 AM. Oh, Joy!
That has been our schedule ever since, still with 3 cumulative hours of naps, although we have inched the bedtime back to 7PM, and sometimes even 7:30 without problems. But if we get to 8pm, he's up at 5, guaranteed. Go figure.
Posted by: Susannah | March 03, 2008 at 05:50 PM
Gotta second the s-e-x comment--that works great when we're not too tired and busy to start.
Second the NO, zip, zero caffeine late in the day (like after 11AM if you're as far into your mid-30s as I am).
Moxie, I so, so, so feel your pain on this one--when Mouse has a (horrors) nap and thusly is up until 10:30 or 11, I find myself going to bed at 1am-ish because there are just a couple of hours of decompressing and dishwashing and reading I need to do. I sometimes fall asleep on the couch, but I resist going to bed (this drives Mr. C nuts) because I just can't end the day in the state of active, outward-focused presence it takes to calm an over-napped child to sleep.
Logistically, it definitely helps to do as many chores as possible before the kid goes to bed--this involves accepting the late bedtime and not "wasting" 1 1/2 hours trying to put to bed starting at 7:30--but then once the kiddo is bedded you are free to watch Lost and do your email, which at least de-stresses your brain.
The late kid bedtime thing is gonna get better. I'm bummed that taking out the nap didn't help, but he's going to get older and it's going to improve. (I still complain about it with Mouse, but it's down to once a week or less these days as she's gotten stronger and better and powering through her very active schooldays without a nap.)
OK, can I share one thing? My Mouse, who has required a parent with her to get to sleep ever since a bad stretch of winter illnesses about 2 years ago--last night I tucked her in and got ready to lie down on the bed and she said, perfectly nonchalantly, "mommy, I'm fine by myself--you go outside". Who knows if it will stick, but o.m.g. A glimpse of the light at the end is just awesome.
Posted by: Charisse | March 03, 2008 at 06:56 PM
Wow Suzie, that's great news about wonder weeks.....I just checked though.....and it's still listed at $124.00 on Amazon. Maybe it's not up yet. I'll keep looking. Thanks for the heads-up!
Posted by: Julie | March 03, 2008 at 07:35 PM
Melatonin. My hero. I couldn't take it while I was pregnant or B feeding, so once I finally took it again I was back on schedule! SO GREAT!!!
Posted by: kellie | March 03, 2008 at 07:56 PM
Jumping Monkeys had a podcast a while back about sleep (in general, rather than specific to when you have an infant), and the guest said that reducing screen time (tv/computer) was really important. Something about the light from the screen making your brain think it was mid-day. It's worth a listen - they linked lack of sleep to a lot of other problems, like weight gain.
Posted by: Salexuel | March 03, 2008 at 08:34 PM
a hot cup of chamomile tea.
Posted by: dreadedfro | March 03, 2008 at 10:20 PM
When I'm keyed up and need to sleep I close my eyes and follow this sequence of eye/head movements--the smaller the movement the better:
1) move head side to side (eyes closed but focus is broad), gazing in the same direction
2) move head up and down, again gazing in the direction of the eye movements
3) go from focussing on a spot to broad focus
4) move head side to side, but reverse the gaze--if you are moving your head to the left gaze to the right, then change
5) same with up and down
6) repeat one and two -- if you even make it this far
I usually can't make it past 5, when I get a huge yawning sigh that washes me down to sleep. It's part of a feldenkrais lesson. I find that the less I move--the more imagined the movement is, the more deeply relaxed I can become. It was a revelation to me that when my head hits the pillow it is usually banging with thoughts and whatnot and I needed an activity to help me muffle all that clanging. Before I learned this I was always so frustrated trying to get to sleep with husband snoring and baby just waiting to wake me up to nurse. I find this takes all my concentration and it feels to me like hitting that reset button on the computer. It is the most luxurious feeling to do in the middle of the day after exercise or meditation, rather than sleep.
Posted by: Colleen | March 03, 2008 at 10:58 PM
I've got two sleep tips; unfortunately, neither is free.
1: Acupuncture. I suffered from horrible insomnia for years, and then finally had about ten weeks of weekly acupuncture treatments. I slept amazingly well for years after until I got pregnant. I was considering going back now that I have a baby and sleeping became more difficult, but my husband has seasonal affective disorder and instead we decided to try
B: a full-spectrum light, which has worked wonders. We bought the Apollo GoLite P1 (http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Health-GoLite-Spectrum-Therapy/dp/B000C1946S/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1204605052&sr=8-1) on one of its frequent Amazon.com sales. We each use it for 15 minutes in the morning. My biggest problem was staying asleep; I now fall asleep around 11-12 and sleep until our daughter wakes up around 7-8. My husband's biggest problem sleep-wise was falling asleep and he now falls asleep anywhere from an hour to two hours before he used to.
Posted by: Melissa | March 03, 2008 at 11:32 PM
I don't understand!?!? What is this 'sleep' thing you are all talking about? Now, the word 'tired', that I understand.
Posted by: sam | March 04, 2008 at 03:36 AM
How about this: Don't work the overnight shift! I work 1800-0600 4 days a week...and then, on my days off, I'm up during the day with my daughter. x_x What circadian rhythm?
I'm moving to days soon. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Also: White noise is awesome, as is a snuggly and well-behaved kitty (I know, those are rare, but I have one and she helps me sleep).
Posted by: Jen | March 04, 2008 at 04:53 AM
@Julie -- here's the link I got from Amazon's email -- http://tiny.cc/H9ue7 -- it does list the $25 price on that page (a bargain, compared to what we had been seeing!).
Posted by: Suzie | March 04, 2008 at 06:49 AM
I'm actually pretty jealous of the folks here who talk about the second wind. That never happens for me. I barely have a first wind. As a matter of fact, some nights (last night, for example) we do Eldest's bedtime routine and then she gets up out of bed, tucks ME in, and then gets back into bed on her own. Sometimes I would like to trade my hours of sleep for a little more productivity or creative time, but when I'm done, i'm just done.
Posted by: rudyinparis | March 04, 2008 at 09:18 AM
The problem with shifting the little ones' sleep schedule is that if we did that I'd never see them. I get home at 6:30, so I can't really get them into bed any sooner than 8 or I don't get to see them. As it is, it's a sucky mad scramble to make and eat dinner, do baths and any school-type stuff and reading.
The problem with me isn't that I go to bed and then can't fall asleep. It's that I'm to interested by everything around me that the idea of going to bed is just comical. Someone once told me I'm like a curious kitten, and I fear it's true.
Posted by: Moxie | March 04, 2008 at 10:30 AM
Does anyone try and maximise their core night time sleep by offering their lo a dream feed? As I understand it, you feed them before you go to bed. I tried it with mine and she woke when I put her back to bed! It just seemed so unfair (and unnatural) to have messed with her whilst she was still sleeping with the result being that she woke up.
Has it worked for anyone? Am I doing it right?
Anyone have an answer to restless leg syndrome?
Posted by: sam | March 05, 2008 at 06:08 PM
No idea for restless leg.
I did dream feeds with B when he was really little, but not for more sleep. It was a solve -his-problem thing, not mine. I honestly can't recall why we did it, though. It was with bottle fed expressed milk, so I'm seriously not sure why... not like he didn't night nurse if he wanted to! Total blank. Anyway, I try to keep their sleep and my sleep separate as issues and solutions, as much as possible. Still, if you're going to do it, it would make sense to do it somewhat like the stepped wakeup thing, where you wake them slightly about 15 minutes before they'd usually wake, then settle them back down. Do that for a few days/a week, then start moving the time you wake them later and later in 15-30 minute increments. It convinces the brain that someone else will wake them when they need waking, and then allows them to follow that cue. Which in the short run and when they have real difficulties seems useful, and in the long run and when it is less critical to everyone's wellbeing, makes me wonder what cue I'm teaching them to ignore that they might need later. Sigh.
I know a lot of people who use dream feeds for kids with food intolerances, Gtubes, NGtubes, severe feeding issues of various sorts. But that's because feeding is so traumatic, they use dream feeding to avoid conscious awareness of it. Kind of a different problem, really.
Posted by: hedra | March 05, 2008 at 07:00 PM
Um, left stuff out there - I meant to say that with a dream feed, I'd think it would make sense to feed them near to when they'd usually be waking hungry, rather than much earlier. Which means that for a while, you're STILL getting up to feed them, but you're re-cueing their body to expect it to be handled without their needing to wake. THEN move it later (or earlier? not sure on that) until you get to where you have that longer block of sleep. But that's all supposition based on the sleep cue thing.
Posted by: hedra | March 05, 2008 at 07:03 PM
@sam...I was always too chicken to try the dream feed. Figured once my so-hard-to-get-to-sleep-infant was finally asleep, I wasn't messing with it!
I have restless legs syndrome, and potassium helps a great deal, so eat your bananas. Also, if it gets really bad, I just have to stand up and move around. Mine hits as I'm falling asleep (like on the couch during a movie). Sooo aggravating. The real bummer is, my son may have it, too. When it hits him, I massage his legs firmly or put pressure on them. This seems to help. I think there's also meds for RLS, but I'm pretty anti-med for most things, so haven't tried that.
Posted by: meggiemoo | March 05, 2008 at 07:22 PM
Thank you Hedra and Meggiemoo.
Hedra, as thought-provoking as ever.
'I try to keep their sleep and my sleep separate as issues and solutions, as much as possible'...I'd not thought about it like that (and had particularly not thought about it in terms of teaching them to ignore their own cues).
Oh well, someone suggested it to me. I get so tired that all I can think about is how to get myself more sleep. I really crave 4 or 5 hours. I lose perspective. Perhaps I don't put her needs first. Hey, I just want to do it the 'right way' (nice link back to yesterday's post!!). I find sleep deprivation really difficult, I'm just not as good at handling it as I could be, perhaps. (guilt coming on so I'll stop thinking about it now...).
Thanks again
Posted by: sam | March 06, 2008 at 02:50 AM
@sam...no one handles sleep deprivation well! Craving 4 hours in a row is a basic human need, not a want. You need that much to have any kind of REM sleep, which is what keeps you from losing your mind.
Do whatever works at this point to get that sleep, whether it's trading off with your partner so you're not the only one getting up with the baby, sleeping during the day if that's a possibility, cosleeping...
Sleep deprivation is no joke...I've been there, and it's awful! I hope you find some solutions that work for you soon.
Posted by: meggiemoo | March 06, 2008 at 11:43 AM