Sleep!

This post is for Too Fed Up from yesterday (second page of comments, about halfway down--stupid Typepad doesn't let you link directly to a comment after the first page, apparently).

You need sleep. People have suggested anti-depressants, but at this point that's putting lipstick on a pig. Maybe, once you've got some sleep in you, you might benefit from ADs, but the immediate physical need, and the thing that's messing with your system, is lack of sleep. Which, let's remember, is used as a method of torture, because it breaks down all the physical and mental systems. You're literally being tortured at this point--no wonder you're losing it.

And no, one good night isn't going to be enough. You need 4-5 nights of good sleep, and then a schedule that gets you at least one 5-hour stretch every night. After a month of that, reassess, and maybe you'll still feel like you need ADs. But if you get them now, they're going to stress your system even more and just mask what's going on, and the real problem won't be addressed.

I'm worried about the way your sleep situation is structured because of the dynamic of your relationship with your partner. It sounds like he thinks taking care of the baby is your job, because he's using his job as a way to trump your need for sleep.

That's not right, and it's not fair.

Unless your partner does one of the following jobs:

• air traffic controller
• operator of heavy machinery (pilot, truck driver, construction vehicle operator, etc.)
• simultaneous translator for the UN
• hostage negotiator
• surgeon, especially neurosurgeon or eye surgeon

then his "having a job" does not in any way, shape, or form trump your responsibilities of taking care of your child during the day.

Presumably, your partner aided in the acquisition of this child, which means that he either gave the sperm (the fun way or the not fun way), paid for the sperm, signed the adoption papers, or opened the door when the stork arrived. He needs to take his turn when he's home, even during the night. There are partners all over the world who do nighttime care of their children (I get emails from many of them, and many of them comment or are commented about by their partners here). It means giving up a little of his own sleep, but it also means taking care of his child.

Any way you slice it, your partner needs to step in. There are some relationships in which both partners see taking care of the children as a shared responsibility. If your partner can't imagine that, and sees caring for your child as "woman's work," then he probably sees his job as providing for the family. You are sick from lack of sleep. He needs to fix that problem. There are many ways for him to do that--several nights in a hotel, hiring someone to come do the overnight shift for you, taking the baby in with him, etc. He can pick one of those methods, as long as it restores your health by giving you sleep.

This post sounds harsh, but the message needs to be sent: You are sick from lack of sleep. Your partner needs to care for you. I don't know if he's not aware of how bad the situation is, so maybe you can show him this post. If he gets you help, it's worth making him angry at me.

Comments

[Lise]

ditto to Cassie. We used Ferber at 5 months, and while the first 3 days were tough, it worked. She immediately started to wake only once a night (and sometimes not at all), BFs, and goes back to sleep within 15 min (we're now at 8.5 months.)

We noticed she would cry when we left, then cry a little harder - then, within 5 min, silence. Use a timer, 3 minutes feels like a long time, but it really isn't. And she's happy to see us in the morning (and BF some more.)

The first night we did it, DH sent me out grocery shopping. She was asleep within 45 min. The second night, I went to the drugstore, she was asleep in 20 min, and after than 5-8 min.

[hedra]

Do check out Dr. Ferber's new book if you're thinking to use a CIO method - it has the actual decisionmaking basis, so you know what to try for what situation.

[caramama]

What Cloud said "In fact, a lot of us mommies who work outside the home consider our days at work to be far, far easier than a day at home with the baby, particularly on little sleep." This is sooooo true for me!!! In fact, I ditto everything she said.

[SUE]

I agree with Cassie - I, too, was vehemently opposed to sleep training until the night I was walking aroung my dad's house at 3am trying to get my daughter to sleep - which I had been doing every 45 minutes all night, and every night had been like that since her birth (she was 9 months old). I wanted to call Dr. Sears and tell him what I thought of his sleep strategies. A friend recommended Weissbluth's book, Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, and it changed the world for me. Turns out my daughter would cry in her sleep and that by going in to comfort her, we'd actually wake her up when she didn't really need anything from up. We haven't had to do that with our second child, thank goodness, but it really can help if you're in a desperate place (whuch, it seems, you are)

[ValleyGal]

Fed Up -- It sounds like you have a helpful partner, but maybe he's a lost one. I know with my DH, what really moves things along is an "action plan." Make a list of things you'd like to try to make the situation better in the order in which you'd like to try them (he can write it down if you're too tired to do anything except think out loud). And then put him in charge of implementing them in order. Even though you desperately need sleep, perhaps a big part of feeling less lost is having a partner help take control and ownership of the situation. Yes, you're breastfeeding and the kid needs to eat, but he can help figure out why the kid isn't sleeping (and how ALL of you are going to survive intact). I don't care that your pediatrician said that it's normal and you need to suck it up -- your family is suffering (even your well rested husband!), so something HAS to change. And since you're so tired, let him be the one in charge of changing things -- maybe you can't solve this problem alone, but as a team, you can make things better.

[DC Ranger]

To Too Fed Up - lots of hugs and loving support to you. I hope that knowing you are not alone does a tiny bit to ease the stress you are feeling.

You mentioned that your husband helps with the baby during his days off. If baby only wants you during the night, and since it may take some time to get the night feeding & waking thing sorted out, perhaps instead you could try to get a nice long nap during the daytime, each and every time hubby's there. Plus I'm sure you'd have a better chance of roping in any friends or family members to come help during the day - it was impossible to get anyone to help us at night. Hubby or whoever can feed baby using the cup and if she's not getting much at each feed because so much is running down her chin, maybe the daytime feedings can just be more frequent until she gets the hang of it. Please, please let go of doing any non-essential chores, errands etc. until you're caught up on sleep.

Having said that, I had trouble sleeping during the day, even when hubby was watching the baby and I was sick & exhausted. It took me ages to wind down & relax enough to fall asleep, and then the slightest sound would jolt me awake. I used earplugs from 1 month onwards because my son never just whimpered - he'd shriek in his sleep which would cause me to jolt awake with a racing heart and leave me unable to fall back asleep for an hour afterward. I'd also turn off the bedroom telephone and turn on the ceiling fan. In addition to earplugs, I used a soft, fabric sleep mask over my eyes to block out all the light. I can't begin to tell you how much that helped me to fall asleep (although I felt ridiculously like the Lone Ranger with my eye mask on). But getting a really long (4-5 hours) daytime nap helped tremendously with being able to get through a difficult night.

Best wishes, dear, and hope things improve for you very soon.

[too fed up to put a name]

Thank you all again for sharing your advice & experiences (and for the birthday wishes!!).

@Katie - I hope that someone has some ideas for you or that you find some ideas in these posts - I feel for you.

You've all given me a lot to think about...

PPD vs Sleep Deprivation. I'll be honest - I feel VERY low. I do sometimes find it hard it to find perspective. My daughter bring me a lot of joy and a lot of smiles, she's fascinating. But sometimes, I look at this little stranger and I want to find someone else to look ater her becuase I just do not know what to do anymore. I don't know how to get her to nap for more than 30mins, she is rubbing her eyes with tiredness all day it seems and I don't know how to make her and myself more refreshed. She used to co nap well with me, but now, I am too much of a distraction, she would rather pull my nose or play with my top, so naps are often on the go and this adds to the exhaustion. I know this sounds pathetic, but today, it was wet and windy and I could barely put one foot in front of the other as I walked her. Then, when she wakes prematurely, and can't get back to sleep, and starts to cry becuase she is still tired...well then I feel such frustration. I want to stop existing. Then the pain in my head from tiredness and the worries and the doubts, everything would stop.

But I couldn't leave my little girl. She didn't ask to be born. She needs her mommy. I need my mommy.

I don't feel like this all the time. Sleep deprived or depressed? I have made an appointment anyway (I must be HONEST!).

Okay, I'm convinced I need to get some sleep. Caramama's analogy has really worked for me.

First things first, organise 4 or 5 nights of sleep. DH will need to get some time off. How should I work it with feedings. She has never taken a bottle. Should I feed her at set times and send DH in at others? I really believe she can go 6 hours between feeds at least. She really doesn't nurse well in the night - just flutter sucks. mostly. I know getting out of the house would offer the opportunity for a proper break but what about feeds? Perhaps I could ask some neighours to put me up once I have fed her for the last time that night???

I never thought I would consider sleep training, her cries send my stomach through the floor, but I guess leaving daddy to sort her out is kind of sleep training.

Paola, how did you work it?

Am I being dumb...I'll re read the posts.

Thank you again. Good luck to all of you going through it too.

[Cloud]

@Too Fed Up, you're not being dumb. We could never work out the logistics of giving me an entire night off, either. Pumpkin takes a bottle, but she needed more milk than I could leave (and couldn't take formula- long story). If she's not nursing deeply each time, then I think you're a prime candidate for night weaning, but you have to decide that.

Here's my advice:

1. Sit down with Hubby and agree on a plan, based on what you know about your baby. For instance, we didn't include any serious crying in our plan because our baby throws up when she gets really upset. Also, she doesn't show any signs of sleep deprivation- only her parents have that problem!

Our plan involved moving the time of the first feeding by 15 minutes every two nights or so. Hubby went in and comforted her by any means he could until it was time to nurse. She zoomed ahead of us and dropped the first feeding within two nights. We could have danced for joy. Once that happened, we started in on the second feeding (at the time, we had 3-4 feedings in the night).

2. Think only about what will work for your family, not what the ideal of baby sleep is. For instance, we now go from 7-4 a.m. w/o feeding, but couldn't push past 4 a.m. w/o more effort than it was worth. I just don't care if anyone else thinks we should push her past 4 a.m. It is easier for us if I get up, nurse her, and then we all sleep until 6:30.

3. Pick a night to start and be firm with yourself. Do not go in before time! But, if Hubby is firmer than you are, he can have an escape clause. We have a deal that Hubby can bring her to me any time he thinks she really needs me. Then, I don't worry about whether I should go in or not. I know Hubby will use the escape clause if he needs it.

4. Get some earplugs, put on some music, close the doors to your room and the room the baby is in, let Hubby sleep on the sofa... basically, do everything possible to make your bedroom quiet enough to sleep, and then let go of the worry and sleep. I went to bed super early so that I'd be sound asleep before the first waking. I was amazed to find that after a night or two I could even go back to sleep when she was crying, because I trusted that Hubby had the situation under control.

If you successfully night wean, celebrate by going to a hotel. Or even better, by getting someone else to come take the night shift, and you and hubby BOTH go to a hotel!

Good luck!

[attiton]

A-freakin'-men, Moxie.

[B. Mare]

Too Fed Up- Ah, my heart went out to you when I read your comment the other day, and reading this discussion. My daughter is also 30 weeks and we have been struggling with sleep for awhile now. Like your baby, she won't take a bottle and has always needed to be nursed back to sleep. And I know so well that feeling of wanting to crawl under the covers and cry/die/disappear when the monitor goes off.

I've been chronicling our adventures in sleep training a la Ferber on my blog- I mention it in case you can find any more information/support there from someone going through it right now. Every baby is different of course, but once we started properly, I was sort of astonished at how quickly things improved considerably- literally within 3 nights.

I have to say I was pretty dead set against doing sleep training. Then I realised that I really couldn't carry on with the way things had been going much longer and I felt that it was in everybody's interest if the sleep was improved. Things are still not perfect-it's definitely not a one-off silver bullet. But I find it empowering and encouraging to have an action plan.

Good luck- you can do this. Email me any time if you want to discuss anything at all about sleep stuff.

[NotQuiteRural]

Wow, my heart goes out to you.

We went through this at about the same age. I work part time, and I would go into the bathroom at work and cry, I was so tired. I screamed at my child one horrible night for not being able to go back to sleep.

My husband and I let her cry in her crib once in the middle of the night for an hour and a half because we were so tired we SLEPT THROUGH IT! When we woke up, she was drenched with tears and screaming with such ferocity, we were afraid she was about to pass out or hyperventilate. Yep, she's a tension increaser. That was a low point.

My husband has always been very willing to help, but our LO never took a bottle and I was out of the house for a good part of the day, so I felt like she needed the nutrients at night.

Finally, we decided that she would go 3 hours between night feedings--baby steps. My husband was on if she woke before that--no matter the flailing, screaming, and other abuse our LO heaped on him during that time.
Of course I couldn't sleep hearing this and I wanted to run over with the boob so we could all get back to sleep. It was almost impossible to stick to at first because this new system meant worse sleep for all of us for a couple days.

Then she got used to her papa in the middle of the night, and while she still wakes up every 2-4 hours all night long at 11 months old, we can switch off putting her back down.

And it's a relatively quiet and quick process, so I can fall asleep while my husband is with her now. (With the exception of growth spurts, teething, and periods of general assholiness, when only mama will do.)

I am not completely sane yet, but we've created that bridge (as Hedra said once) that will enable us to get to the next stage intact. I can sleep at night now instead of lying there in nervous, exhausted desperation, waiting for her to wake up yet AGAIN.

And the work/staying home thing? No contest--work is easier, much, much easier. My husband went back to school a couple months ago and takes care of LO half the time, and he now totally gets it. He thought he got it before, but it's just impossible to understand until you've done it yourself.

Hang in there. You are doing a better job than you think.

[Mona]

Another thing Too Fed Up can do is move out of the baby's room. I know in the short term it might seem like a bad idea, but if she stops hearing him stir than she might get more sleep. The baby is about 7 months old so it can sleep longer than its sleeping and the two of them in the same room might be waking each other up. Just a thought . . .

[hannah]

Too Fed Up, I hear you, and when I was in your shoes I was at the psychiatrist's office the next day. (I had a history of depression.) And the first thing he said was, "You need to get at least five hours straight of sleep each night." My son was 10 weeks old at the time, and I think I laughed maniacally at that idea.

What helped me was:
-my husband taking a night shift so I could get some sleep. We wound up working it so I went to bed around 8 and didn't have to deal with anything until after 1 AM, which worked for us. I feared it would be forever but it was not the case.
-Ferber at 6 months.
-Zoloft.
-A two week trip to my mother's house, where she made sure I was eating right and getting out for walks and getting enough sleep. If there is not anyone who can help you with this, try to mother yourself. I was forgetting to eat enough and I think that hurt, too.

[Jill]

wow this has all been so good to read. I go through periods of more or less utter exhaustion and feeling like a huge failure myself. I actually have my first appt with therapist today in 2 1/2 hours! I've been meaning to see someone for a long time, so finally getting out there - I sure hope it helps.

But anyway, back to the issue... my 15 month old has been getting up 2-4 times a night (OR MORE) since about 6 1/2 months old. I can't believe I've gone for 8+ months without a single night of good sleep.

What has helped some is just accepting that we're getting up. My attitude about it really affects my reaction to it. I've also been trying to get him to go to sleep on his own in the crib for bed time. We give him a bottle, then rock/cuddle til he sort of "settles" and then I put him in the crib and kneel by it and pat his back til he's asleep. I've started now just holding my hand on his back. I'm almost able to not touch him. Then I'll move farther away or just leave the room. My "theory" is that once he learns that he can go to sleep on his own, he'll be better at going back to sleep.

My next step is going to be to do this same "method" for night wakings. I need to really gear up for it though since I'm sure it will result in a short term "less sleep".

My other option is to just start having DH take the nights. I think we'll do that soon. Or at least have him take the first 1 or 2 wakings. Again, we have to be mentally prepared for it.

My DH doesn't do any of the nights, but it's not because he's a neaderthal or anything. It's b/c I can get him back to sleep in 10 minutes.

OH, the other thing that has really helped is that after around 3 or 4, when he wakes up, I put him inthe guest bed with me and we sleep GREAT til 7 or 8. That one change has changed my life. I know it's probably not helping the long run issue. But I was so at the brink of disaster that for now, just surviving and not crying all day is a huge improvement.

I guess I'm babbling... I hope you get some relief. ALhtough I haven't seen the original post that this is referring to, I get the drift. Big hugs to you.

Oh, and I"m totally looking into the night doula thing!

[pnuts mama]

too fed up-
it sounds like you are borderline depressed, mainly based on your lack of sleep. which, again, only sleep is going to help to begin with. i'm glad you've made an appt to meet with someone, and that you're ready to start 'planning' what the next steps are.

my thoughts on the first steps are: she's 7 months old? has she started on solids like cereals yet? my pnut slept better on a fuller stomach, and (ignoring the tales of terror over childhood obesity-not going to a problem with our little runt) put cereal mixed with ebm (or formula) in a feeder bottle and filled her up. we also cluster fed in the evenings- that is, i gave her both sides worth of a feeding every two hours on the two hour mark from about dinner time on til 'bedtime'- maybe three feedings in a row, last one a bath then feed then bed! (this started earlier than the seven month mark, but i'm thinking of whatever i can here).

when she goes down for "the night", YOU GO TO BED TOO!! i know, there are 4 million things you need/want to get done. trust me that they can all wait one week. take a shower, relax, and go to sleep.

if your husband can go in for that first wake-up and soothe her back to sleep, that would be awesome- he could try and walk with her, rock her (if she likes motion) or give her a binky/bottle of formula if she likes to suckle back to sleep. if she absolutely cannot go back to sleep without nursing (pnut couldn't, ugh) than have him bring her to you in bed, tank her up with both sides, and have him cuddle her through a whole sleep cycle and then back in the crib. sometimes it takes a whole cycle to get them into the zonk-out zone. (it may have been charisse or jan who rec'd this, a long time ago, and i thought, now that is so smart- just freakin hold the kid for an hour or two until they are really into that deeeeep sleep and *then* put them down.) set him up in a dark, quiet room, maybe with his ipod or tv w/ low sound so he can be restful, too.

it was well after 9 months (probably more like a year) that we could put pnut down awake in her crib and she'd fall asleep on her own, but *well before that* that she could sleep longer than 3-4-6-8 hours at a time. it was then when we started the whole "music/lullaby soother on ceiling" routine. and she was a flutter sucker, too, which was when i'd do the quick switch from me to her binky.

the only other thing i can think of off hand is does she sleep better with motion? 7 months seems too big for a swing (unless she's small) but what about her carseat/stroller or something? you'd have to judge that based on her ability to move herself for her own safety. and have you tried diff types of bottles/nipples/kinds of formulas? sometimes a baby will take a formula from a bottle from a dad/caregiver if mom is no where in the picture, if it really is hunger that is waking them.

good luck. this is so very difficult. sigh.

[ValleyGal]

Fed Up -- Remember that CIO doesn't have to be all or nothing. When we did sleep training, I decided that my point of "I-can't-take-it-anymore" with respect to crying was 15 minutes. So, I'd rock the baby to sleep (or to very drowsy) and if he cried either at the beginning or in the middle of the night (or nap), I couldn't go into his room until he had been crying for 15 minutes. I almost never got to go into the room -- he almost always went back to sleep at 13.5 minutes. So, if she's down for a nap and wakes up before she's been asleep for an hour, try letting her cry for a few minutes. If she's just flutter sucking, frankly, I think she's not hungry -- she's just using you as a cuddly pacifier. You will know quickly if crying causes her tension to escalate or decrease, so really, you only have to decide to do it once. If it works, do it again. If it doesn't work, try the next idea. Everyone has opinions and there are lots of dogmatic schools of thought, but remember that parenting isn't an all or nothing proposition -- you can pick and choose and try different things until you find what works for your family. One last thing -- I think you're fabulous for being brave enough to talk to all of us strangers about this. Clearly, you care about your family. And that's why you're already a great mom (even if you're a sleep-deprived mom right now.) Happy Birthday!

[sheSaid]

All of these comments are GREAT!

I just want to add that things are not black or white. You can breastfeed and the husband/grandma ect can give formula that is totally fine!

Also same with CIO, Ferber, ect. I would say keep trying things.

Every time I get desperate and think we will try something else and let hubby have a night shift... the babe goes and improves his sleep and I feel like me waking is still the path of least resistance for all of us...

Oh I and daydreamed about just driving away too. That was in January at about 5 months I just wanted to get away far far away from them even though I loved them.
I think this is a completely normal reaction to TORTURE!

[EG]

A big thank you to everyone for your super suggestions and for helping all of us - not just Fed Up - not feel so alone in this sleep netherworld.

I'm a WAHM to a 7 month old as well. My husband and I have come up with a way to work through the sleep deprivation that seems to help. It's not a sleep nanny (oh lord, does that sound good!), but it has helped us.

First, he does the dream feed during the week. He also puts the baby back to bed, then comes to bed himself. That's usually around 11 pm. I've been in bed for about 2 hours by then.

Then M-F, I'm on duty all night after the dream feed so he can sleep for 8 hours. That means that if the baby is up every hour, so am I.

Saturday and Sunday, he's got night duty all the way through and I'm tucked quietly away in the guest room with earplugs. Oh, and sometimes a Benadryl or two. And I can sleep in as late as I want.

I count the days until Friday. But weekends? Pure bliss.

[Simone]

Birthday hugs to you, Fed Up!!

I agree with Parisienne...the middle of the night messes with reality like no other time of day. I have spent many a nights crying to myself while caring for the baby. And my husband WAS a helper. But there was something about him going back to bed after his "shift," that would send me into bitterness and sadness. Even though he had just done his share! But I would salivate at the thought of being in bed, too. It is SOOO isolating.

It DOES get easier, and Moxie and all the others have such great advice to make things better in the meantime. You DESERVE to take care of you! (Heck, it's a necessity to taking care of the little one!) Hang in there, MOMS!!!

[alex]

In regards to sleep training, we just started it w/ our 7mo son and it really seems to be working. I work full time out of the home and the sleep depravation was killing us both. I too was opposed to CIO. Until I hit that wall of utter exhaustion.

We used the guidelines set out in "Sleeping Through the Night" by Jodi Mindell. Its been called the "kinder Ferber" method. ( I still think the CIO method of just leaving your baby alone and never checking on him is cruel. As is doing CIO when the baby very small).

And the thing that sold me on this "method" was there was NO time limit. If you could only wait 30 seconds, you go back in & check on the baby in 30 seconds. And you can do that every 30 seconds until the baby falls asleep. And when the baby wakes up in the middle of the night - you do your normal routine of rocking or nursing, etc. You work on nighttime wakings after the baby gets the hang of going to sleep at bedtime without you.

DS was waking up every 3 hours before we started this. It took 2 nights for him to start sleeping 7-8 hour stretches. And he cried/fussed less than 30 minutes each night at bedtime when we left him in his crib. It still was horrible, but keeping busy with chores and having my husband be the one to go in and check on DS every 5-7 minutes really helped. DS still wakes up to feed once a night, but then he goes back to sleep until 7 am.

I honestly feel like a new woman. My mother, my husband, even my co-workers have noticed.

And I no longer dread going home after work. I am able to really appreciate my son more and look forward to seeing him at the end of the day. When I was so tired I just didn't want to go home and deal with it all over again, all night long.

[Nutmeg]

I just want to add in the following.

My husband is a physician. He works 14 hour days on an extremely regular basis, 5 days a week. He has MS. He STILL did a lot of night parenting in the early baby days and now (at 15 months) he's been doing almost ALL of it for 5 months or so.

I still don't sleep a lot, but I sleep ALMOST a livable amount.

There are no good excuses for dad to not help out.

Good luck to everyone!

[Alison]

I'm going to second what Cassie said. I know this is not a big CIO community, and I think that's great, but it can be a lifesaver in certain situations. When mom is falling apart due to sleep deprivation, she can't be the best mom possible, and that's not great for baby. I sleep trained my baby at 7.5 months, and I went from moderate PPD symptoms to loving being a mom. It's all about the sleep for me.

I went away for 3 nights and my husband got the process started, and then it took another week. It was really hard, but my baby is doing wonderfully now, naps much better, sleeps 12! hours! at night (from 2-6 night wakings) and is more fun during the day. It's not right for everyone, but it is a powerful tool.

Whatever you decide and however you handle this, know that you're not alone.

[Rachel]

Too fed up,

My heart goes out to you. I am so sorry for how you are feeling right now. It is so brutal when you are living in a dark valley. I totally agree with Moxie (and so many others) that sleep will bring the sunshine back into your life.

My baby is 32 weeks old. Last month I pretty much snapped from sheer exhaustion. Baby J had brutal colic, suspected allergies and he never, never, never, never slept. My life felt like a living hell. I had a headache for months, I always felt nauseous and I had to quit driving b/b I couldn't make rational decisions. My husband and I were at each others throats and our other two children were totally getting the short end of the stick (add guilt to the pile there). What a mess.

One day I decided that I couldn't do it for one more second. I had heard about Marc Weisbluth's book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" that day so I bought it and then read what I needed to to make a plan. We started that night. I had been super against CIO etc. but was at the point that I didn't care what we had to do to get us all some sleep. I viewed it as an act of kindness for our entire family. Long story short, it took a couple of nights (where husband was on duty and I slept with our door shut, fan on and a pillow over my head) and then he started sleeping through the night (he usually sleeps from 7 to 5ish, nurses and then sleeps until 7ish now). I can't tell you how much better I felt after I started getting some regular sleep. Once I did, I realized just very, very bad everything had been. I don't dread my life anymore. I am a much better mother and wife. I've started laughing again. And cleaning my house regularly. And baking cookies for my kids. And playing with them. And having sex with my husband. An added bonus is that my baby has turned into a joyful, easy going absolute delight. He is like a completely different child now that he is well rested.

Sleep is healing. It brings perspective. It is vital for your well being. It's important for your entire family. However you chose to go about it, I highly recommend doing whatever you need to do to get yourself some sleep and teaching your little one to sleep (whatever method that may be). You will all be so much happier and be able to function. You'll have perspective and will feel human again.

Bless you, Too Fed Up and all you the other parents out there who are so sleep deprived.

[Julie]

I just want to chime in to say that this "rule" that so many partners seem to believe to be the gospel truth can apply long after the kid is sleeping through the night. My husband also subscribes to this to some extent even now. Bath duty? Me. Bedtime? Me. Picking up the toys Alex didn't seem to "see" during clean up time? Me. All night wakings (usually only if he's sick these days)? Yup. Me. Granted, if Alex is having a screaming hissy fit I'd rather be the one to deal with it and I'd honestly rather him leave the house and go to the garage office to work b/c he just doesn't have the patience, or temperment or tolerance to deal with a scraming kid for any length of time. I can literally feel his blood pressure spike, which is more stress that I don't need when dealing with a screaming kid. But. Help? Would be nice. He also uses the excuse of "But he wants YOU" as soon as Alex argues or cries for Mommy to do it, which doesn't mean that he wants *me*....just that he's 2 1/2 and wants things to be however they're not.

The thing that's the killer is that he's a great dad. Does plenty of diaper changes, takes him out of my hair whenever Alex is willing to be apart from me and it's clear I need a break... The two of them have a ball and he is fine with long stretches when I am at work or out of the house.......but as far as doing the day-to-day work of parenting, most of that falls on my shoulders.

I am going to copy and paste this post from Moxie into another document to save because this is so well-put and exactly what I've wanted to say to him so often.......but can only get out "But....Gr....Arg..." because I was either too tired, or really it's just how he is and like so many other things in life, it's easier to parent around it than try to force it to be something it's not.

We are planning on trying for #2 in the next couple months, and I'm gearing myself up for The Way It Is, so as not to be disappointed. My plan is to be explicity clear with him what I need from him no matter what (my mistake the first time around) but now I don't think I'll have that bitterness I had the first time when I realized that most of the grunt work is in my box.

[Julie]

Too fed up....I just read your comment....good for you for making that appointment. Once you get some sleep, I suggest looking into some of the methods others have tried - Mindell, Ferber (the new one I hear is pretty decent) and Weissbluth. We used Weissbluth when Alex was doing that horrible cat-nap thing...what is it with that and how do they all know how to do it??? and it really really really saved me. Something will work for you, so do some research after you've slept a bit. And like a pp said, if it works keep doing it. If it doesn't, move onto the next idea. We did the 10 minute rule.....had my DH set his timer on his watch for 10 mintues and if he was still crying after 10 mintues I would go in there. Often he would cry for *maybe* 3 and then be out. But we would have never known this if we hadn't been willing to stomach some crying for 10 minutes.

For you to sleep: Leaving the house to sleep would probably be the best thing....and sometimes kids are "better" for daddy b/c the Boob-Factor has been removed. If it's not a possibility, why bother waking up at all? My own (non-scientific) theory is that it takes about 3 days to make or break a habit with young kids....so if you (or your hubby) can stand to be away for that long or you can stand to do some kind of training for 3 days, things will be much better.

One last thing I learned that hasn't been mentioned (though I haven't read everything yet) is that you should probably tackle the night sleeping before you worry about the naps. Wait. FIRST tackle your OWN night sleeping. THEN tackle the night sleeping of your child. After that the naps should elongate and become more regular.

Big hugs and happy birthday.

[onehappycow]

I am learning to never say never as a parent. First I swore up and down you would never see a baby in my bed - until the first night home, and then we co-slept for 8.5 mos - the only way we could get any sleep. Then I said I would NEVER use CIO - until my cat-napper and all-night restless milk buffet-eater was making me bonkers. It was quite ridiculous. So I Ferberized. It sucked. I had a tension increaser and I knew deep down that any gentle methods like Pantley would take longer in the end because she was going to protest any sort of change - LOUDLY. I went balls to the wall and just did it. My mother was there and did the bulk of the checks after the initial couple - God bless her. But my kid screamed for 1 h and 45 mins the first night. The next night an hour. And the next night only 20-30 mins. She also stopped napping for the first week and I was a mess that I was psychologically damaging her and that I messed up our attachment. When she was awake I kept her pretty much plastered to me , nursing ad lib. I never felt any difference, to be honest. The first night she actually slept about 5 hrs straight (from my 30-60 min feeder previously). I was shocked! About 4 days after she started sleeping through until the early morning hours. I never even did it for night-time, I only wanted to fix the naps. That is still a struggle but getting better. The night-time thing has been a HUGE blessing to me and allowed me to finally feel like I have my shit together as a mother! And time for myself! If you knew my high-needs child, you would understand my reluctance to sleep train. And it sucked and was a battle - BUT it was the best thing I have done. Now she has a regular schedule and is like a different kid.

Sooo.. my story was not the quick-fix, but it did wonders for both of us. Good luck to you and get some rest! Big hugs!

[Neil]

A few (okay, many) words from the other side (the dude's side, that is):

First of all, you, and any woman or man who is suffering from baby-induced sleep deprivation has my utmost sympathy. It's truly a brutal state to be in.

My son (now 10 months) was almost never great at sleeping for the first 8 months, but we muddled through it as best as we could for the first while. Then, my partner started suffering from anxiety and terrible, crushing insomnia which triggered some equally devastating PPD.

I already was helping at night as much as I could (I was working full-time from 8 weeks on) but after the diagnosis I had to take over the nights completely as my partner had to take a heavy duty sleep aid in order to sleep. So the kid and I slept on the main floor, and she went upstairs, put earplugs in, and took her sleep medication.

For the first month things went amazingly well - my kid was sleeping 8-10 hours in a row, and everyone was getting sleep. Then at 5 & 1/2 months all hell broke loose and my kid started waking up every 1-2 hours. This was also the start of a two day bottle strike, when the kid absolutely refused to take a bottle - we had weaned right after my partner was given her meds.

To break the bottle strike we basically just keep trying to feed the kid the bottle and didn't give in and give the breast. We really couldn't go back to the boob because of the medication anyway. What I learned from this is that babies will not let themselves starve to death - at some point they will get hungry enough and take the bottle. Strike over.

The sleep issues went on __for 10 weeks__. I was literally getting 3-4 hours of sleep a night, every night, broken up into little chunks as I kept waking up and going to my kid during these night waking episodes. I'd then drag myself out the door in the morning to my full-time job.

This went on until just after christmas. I was a zombie. No, worse than that - I was a husk of a person. I was fighting off my own depression and my personality had completely changed - I was massively irritable, I snapped at people for no reason, I threw things when I was angry... it was horrible.

We finally gave up and did CIO. I was against this from the start, but the reality was it was either myself or the kid, and I couldn't take another week of the status quo.

I'm fully aware of how controversial the CIO decision is, but we really had no other choice. We had already spent thousands of dollars on doulas and night nurses to give me occasional breaks as our families do not live in the same city as us.

For us, CIO saved us. It was brutal for the first 3 nights but it got progressively better, and now my kid sleeps from 6:30 until 6:30 the following day without almost zero night waking or crying. My partner is sleeping great, I'm sleeping great - we're all doing well now.

If you are in a situation where it's either you or the baby, you have to choose yourself. The reality is that this time is just a tiny fragment of your child's life, and they will not remember what happens now. Whatever you choose, you have to take care of yourself first.

You spouse should definitely help out in the nights. Even if this is just two nights a row in a week, at least you'll get two nights to get caught up on sleep. On those nights you should completely hand over all responsibilities to your spouse - put earplugs in and get some sleep. Obviously this requires your baby to take a bottle beforehand, but it's very possible that your husband will have better luck in this department. When you give your baby a bottle it's probably thinking, "why take a bottle when the real thing is right there?"

Hang in there! I know everyone says this, but it's true: it does get easier.

[Melissa B.]

@ Too fed up: Please please please go out tomorrow and buy the Ferber Book "How to Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems". You don't even have to read the whole thing-- just read chapter 4. This method gets a bad rap as "cry it out", but it honestly isn't about crying it out-- it is about helping babies get more rest by breaking the sleep associations that prevent them from sleeping without help. My daughter went from being awake for hours every night at 8 months old to sleeping through the night in three days. The first night, she cried for 42 minutes, with me going in there to comfort her after 1 minute, 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 7 minutes, and then every 10 minutes. The second night, she cried for 12 minutes, and the third night for 8 minutes. 8 minutes for an entire night of rest. Think about that. It was amazing. I was told about this book when I almost started crying at a total stranger who asked me how my girl was sleeping-- sleep deprivation makes you crazy! My daughter was also a nursing no bottle girl, and I thought this method was better than just handing the whole night over to daddy and plugging my ears because I was the one going in, so she knew I was there and that I hadn't abandoned her, but also understood that I wasn't going to feed her then. To ease the transition, I would feed her if she had been sleeping at least 6 hours (which is technically through the night) although most nights she slept much longer-- after a few weeks of that, I eliminated that early morning feeding too. It worked. It saved my sanity. It made my daughter a happier, more well rested kid. I have no regrets whatsoever. Just read the chapter and see if it makes sense to you. I feel so deeply for what you are going through.

@Becky (I think I have that right-- the mom with the colicky 6.5 month old?): If at 6.5 months your daughter is nursing a ton at night and eating lots of solids during the day, I would definitely cut back on the solids. At that age, solids are just for practice, and it sounds like she's not getting enough good calories during the day. Hang in there-- that's a tricky transition, and I don't envy the 12-13 feeding schedule...

[Dawn]

I got Xan ax and Z oloft because my insomnia was so bad that it was totally a chicken or egg issue. Now I take Xan. on Friday and Saturday nights so I know that 2 nights a week I'm going to get a decent night of sleep.

Alex cosleeps - for various reasons that work for us and would make someone else crazy. He doesn't sleep well, but we're at the point now where generally even if we are playing Mommy's all night milk bar, we're both getting sleep and thriving. Someone commented this week that Alex seems much happier with me on the Z oloft. :)

We've tried CIO-ish and each time we do it, we think "ah! magic pill! *everyone* says once they do it that sleep gets better. Yeh. Not for us. Sigh. We gave it a whirl, I'm sure we'll do it again unless we find something else that works. It might work for you, it might not. If it doesn't, then you can also sit back and smile when people tell you that you *have* to do it. :) (the shocked faces at mom's group ARE kinda fun when I tell them how it didn't work for us.)

At 10 months I've been noticing Alex learning to settle in more and more. I can really see him building some skills in the sleep arena, and some nights he only wakes twice in a 12 hour stretch (good for our house).

I like Pantley's book for toddlers better than the one for babies. FWIW, it just seems like it's going to meet our needs a little better.

Good luck :)

[ellen]

@Too Fed Up: Your last comment read so familiar, it nearly made me cry. The sleep deprivation I experienced with my first daughter pushed my latent PPD over the edge. Like Moxie and so many others have written getting away to get sleep is, in my opinion, the best solution. Maybe I feel that way because that's what I did. I didn't have five nights (three was all we could manage), and during the first two days I felt like a complete failure for abandoning my daughter. But the sleep allowed me to see things clearly for the first time in months: 1) the person I was failing was myself....if I didn't take care of me, how could I care for her; and 2) I should take help from anyone who offers: husband, friend, mother, MIL, psychologist, etc. I think I got stuck in the mindset of "I should be able to handle this", which is pretty much bs. In large part, my downfall came from my perception that competency in my professional life would translate to immediate confidence as a mother. It didn't. I felt incompetent.

Once I threw out my preconceptions of what it meant to be a good mother in the first place AND I got some sleep (and again, I had a stretch of four days with no sleep at all...I was pretty much nuts at that point), things started to improve. The last step was AD, and I have to say those helped a tremendous amount too.

Hang in there.

Oh, and one more thing, my dh was really supportive, helped with feeding etc, but I don't think he really knew how bad it was (even when I told him I thought I was losing it) until I actually lost it. Sometimes it's hard for the men in our lives to read a situation for what it is.

[Cathy]

Such good advice and suggestions.

Mostly I wanted to commiserate - I remember how intense my daughter's cry was - I could feel it in my gut. She's 5 and she can still do that when she wants.

I'm working back in the office again and my 2nd daughter is 3 1/2 months old. I am so tired and she's a pretty good sleeper (down at 7, up at 4, down, up again around 6:30 or 7). One of the things that helps is that DH and I "take turns" with the middle of the night stuff. (I use that term loosley, because he's probably doing more than his fair share.)

Something that I found is that when the baby is between us for more than one night, I miss my husband. You sleeping in the room with the baby can't be doing anything good for your relationship with your husband and being able to ask him for help. Also, I totally agree with the other posters that frequently the baby will make a gurgle or whimper or cry in his/her sleep, and it's really just because it's part of their dream or they are in between sleep cycles or something. Moving back into your room will totally help you filter out the less important sounds.

Oh, I remember the last thing - it was about being overtired. It can be really hard to settle down when you are over tired (just like it's hard for your baby to do the same). I really liked the 'no cry sleep solution' (in a pick and choose kind of way) for the basic stuff about setting up a bedtime routine, maybe a lovey, and the variety of ideas. It will be helpful for you, when you get the opportunity to take a nice nap or know that your husband is "on duty" or that you're going to sleep when the baby sleeps to take a few minutes to help yourself unwind before trying to sleep.

Happy Birthday and Good luck - give us an update when you have or try out a strategy.

[onehappycow]

I agree with Dawn too.

CIO did wonders for us at nighttime. Naps continue to be a struggle and after reading many many books, I just kept plugging along and stopped the CIO (she had no problem falling asleep, it was staying asleep that was the problem. you know, the 20-30 minute cat-napper type). She finally is doing some stretching of them on a regular basis at almost a year and I feel slightly comfortable talking about it (superstitious, anyone?). But I think that may be a developmental factor creeping in that I only set the stage for. Who knows. It definitely is a combo issue, I think. But try it, at this point, what do you have to lose?

BTW, when I did it, I pretty much was a single mom with the help of my own mother for the CIO (or modified CIO, see Chapter 4 of Ferber). My girl is only breastfed and wouldn't take a bottle if I was around. She did fine.

[Cloud]

I had to come back and say one more thing to all the Moms whose husbands aren't helping out: as indignant as most of us are to hear that, remember that it really is none of our business. If our rants and advice help you get what you need from your partner, that's great. If not, definitely do not add the guilt of not "standing up for yourself" to the mix. Nobody's husband is perfect, and I think the key is to find the solution that works FOR YOUR FAMILY. If Hubby won't/can't help at night, get him to take the baby for long walks on the weekends. Try to find someone else who can help out during the week. Take the baby to a drop in day care center if you have to. Find a sleep training solution that you're comfortable with trying. I guess what I'm saying is, look realistically at your situation and try to find solutions that can work. (Of course, this is easier when you've had some sleep, so there is a chicken and egg problem here). But whatever you do, don't feel like you have to justify your decisions to anyone. And remember that you are doing a great job as a mommy, even if your husband isn't clued in enough to (1) tell you that and (2) give you the support you need.

[Cloud]

Oh, and I wanted to say: 6-9 months was the absolute hardest time for us in terms of sleep. Nighttime sleep sucked. Naps were hard to get and usually shorter than I wanted. during this time, I was working 35 hours/week and had some Fridays off. Sometimes I would send her to day care for half a day on my day off, just so I could sleep in. Things started improving when she started crawling, actually.

[hedra]

Dittoing again MelissaB's recommendation to go GET THE BOOK. The CIO methods you read online or your mom tells you about are NOT the whole picture, they don't give you enough basis to do it properly, effectively, and kindly - you MAY hit on that on your own anyway, but the book lays it out so you don't have to figure it out. Dr. Ferber is appalled that people apply CIO methods improperly, ineffectively, to the wrong ages and situations, thinking that it will work for everything. It doesn't, and shouldn't be used for everything. BUT, it CAN be used for the right things, at the right times. The book is a toolbox, and there's more than just a hammer in there, there's instructions for using each of the tools to fix different problems, applying the right tool to the right problem. If you're too tired to think it through, and want the perspective of someone who is actually a very kind, gentle person who ALSO has immense amounts of research-based information and experience, the new book by Dr. Ferber is a good place to start.

[hedra]

Oh, and for the 'flutter nurses all night', my strategy was to offer a bottle of water but no nursing at those times. There were times my G was thirsty a bit but not HUNGRY. It worked out that I skipped two wakings and the third was actually hungry (having not 'snacked' in between), then skipped two and the third was hungry again. That may be similar to the pattern you have. Good luck!

[andrea]

Too Fed Up:

I can totally relate to you. My son is now almost 11months old and he JUST NOW (like as in a couple of weeks ago) started sleeping well again. He did wonderfully until 4 months, and then it all went to crap and he would not stay asleep for more than 20-30 minutes at a time for the next 6 months of his life. His was health related (reflux, which we FINALLY are just now getting under control with the right combination of meds), but its the same thing (except we never had the optino of crying it out - I wouldnt let my child cry when I know hes mostly only waking up because he's in real, legitimate pain)

I have a husband who works full time and goes to school for architecture full time as well. He's a busy guy. From the time my son was about 4months til 5.5months, hubby was working on final projects for school and was staying up almost all night so baby duty was all mine at night, and that was totally fine.... it was fine THEN, anyway. However, hubby spent the NEXT month and a half just being an ass and not wanting to get up with the baby. Finally, 3 months into the non-sleeping, hubby tried going in there at night and was met by screams like he was trying to kill the little guy. So, for the next 3 months or so, whenever I'd ask my husband to get up at night... or mention how tired I was, he would just say "hey its Hunter's fault, he doesnt like me anymore" (gee, I wonder why, when hubby spent, at this point, half of the kids life NOT taking responsibility for him).

I can honestly say I only had TWO bright points in that entire 6months of not sleeping.
1) I had to go out of state overnight for work. It was the FIRST TIME that I had been away from baby for more than 20 or 30 minutes, and it was AWESOME. Yeah I missed him. I missed him a lot. I also had a blast, and although that night I went to bed around 4am and was up by 8am, I STILL got more sleep than I would have at home.
The real highlight of this trip was the fact that baby stayed home with daddy. Daddy had to deal with him. It was the FIRST time that he couldnt just plead ignorance and hand the baby off to me because I "know what I'm doing" (another classic line from him...
When I got home, hubby was so completely appreciative of everything that I do (although it was still, of course, worse for him because the baby "likes mommy better").
2) The one or two nights in the middle where I had him trying to get up with baby. Yeah, I still had to get up too because baby just would not settle for him, but the fact that the next day my husband said "WOW I'm sooo tired, I can see why you like to take naps when you can!" made it all worth it. (Up until this point, not only would he not get up at night with the baby, but when I'd actually have asecond to take a nap, or when I wanted to go to bed at 8pm when the baby was asleep, he would make fun of me and guilt me into staying up to spend time with him).

Both of these moments of sympathy were, of course, very quickly forgotten by my hubby. But I will admit that was largely my own fault. I didnt "make" him stick to stepping up and being a father at night time too (I was hoping he'd do this on his own), and even now, he thinks that because I work at home (not self employed, I just work for a company remotely), all I do is sit around and play with our son and have fun, etc, etc.

Anyway, I guess my point is this:
Force your hubby to step up. Tell him "I am going away for a weekend", and do it. You'll miss your baby, but trust me, it will be better for EVERYONE if you do this. And when you get back, dont make my super-control-freak mistake and pick right back up where you left off. Take advantage of the fact that your husband will suddenly KNOW first hand what you go through. If he can not take night duty (if he works nights, or whatever), then tell him you need to hire someone who can.

[Lisa]

Not sure that I'm adding much of substance to this incredibly rich conversation, but as another voice in the chorus:

We just nightweaned (15 months! Why did I wait so long?!) and the only way to do it was to send my partner in for all the night wakeups. My son cried a lot, but it didn't feel like crying-it-out in the same way because he was being held, he just wasn't getting the boob. So it seemed to me more like a cry of anger and protest and was easier to tolerate. And it only took a couple of nights, then he just figured it wasn't worth it and stopped waking up. I think it went so well because he's older and I was able to tell him what was going to happen, and plus he definitely can fill up during the day and not be hungry at night. But I don't recommend waiting this long if you want to do it sooner. Ah, the difference!

Of course, last night he woke up twice and my husband went in to pat him on the back, got him back to sleep within a couple of minutes, and then complained to me this morning about how tired he was. I smiled sympathetically and said (not so sympathetically) yeah, I know, now try doing it for 15 months. A little lightbulb went off for him then....

For what it's worth, I think no job absolves a parent from full participation. I work in an ER and need to be fully ON when I'm there. 15 months of sleep deprivation could have been totally unsafe except that I would regularly let my son go to day care on my days off while I slept the whole day. And I didn't feel guilty about it at all. I might pick him up earlier that day so we had quality time, but I needed that sleep to do my at home job and my at work job. It takes a village and if your extended family is not your village, your child care provider can be. I realize that this is no small feat - finding affordable high quality child care - but even if you can take a friend up on an offer of day time babysitting or hire a neighborhood student to play with your kid while you nap, it makes a significant difference.

[Melissa]

Oh, Too Fed Up. I feel you. I have been where you've been. One day I nearly fell asleep while driving both children in the middle of the day, and I came home and told my husband something had to change. For the next several months neither one of us got great sleep, but we both got just enough to get by.

I highly recommend sleeping away from the baby, using white noise, and turning off the monitor. You can hear the baby cry but not hear the little noises they make in the night.

And don't give up on the bottle--both of my kids learned how to take a bottle very late (my son just learned at 8 1/2 months!). I just kept giving it to them and one day they figured it out.

[too fed up to put a name]

I really appreciate all the advice and experiences.

My hubby has 3 days off now and so I have rested today. He is up for taking over the night shifts but I'm not sure how we can work it. I can't leave for the night as she needs my boobs to eat. The night time is surely not the time to push the bottle issue?

He's going to take some annual leave to give me a night break which gives us time to formulate a proper plan (and read some books).

I just don't know what she's capable of in terms of needing to eat in the night. I think she should be able to go at least 4 hours between nursings so perhaps I should send in hubby when she wakes before then. She will probably then scream her head off until the scheduled nurse. To be honest, I think she could go longer than 4 hours but I have to confess I don't really know what a hungry cry sounds like (she has never really had to cry from hunger).

When you consider nightweaning is it the first feed of the night to try and push?

I don't think I'll be getting a 4 hour block of sleep just yet.

Thank you Moxie and everyone who has shared, I hope this is helping others as well.

xx

[hannah]

I used Ferber's nightweaning plan- my baby was waking every 1-2 hours to nurse. So the first night, I would nurse him if he woke and it had been over 2 hours. The second night, 2.5 hours. The third night, 3 hours, and by the fourth night he was going 4 hour stretches and then down to 1-2 night feedings, which I found acceptable and did from months 6-10. I found the gently stretching out time between nursings to be effective in the daytime, too, when we started day weaning- it just seems easier than dropping a feeding altogether.

[pnuts mama]

too fed up- if your baby is nursing well during the day (every 2-3 hours, but check kellymom for the approx. amt needed at that age/stage) and started on solids (has she?) then there really is no need to nurse through the night anymore for *nutrition* necessarily.

when you nurse during the day, are you giving her both sides per session? (like, 10 minutes right side, break for 10-15 minutes, ten minutes left side?) as well as some cereal and maybe a vegetable or fruit each once a day? if so, and your baby is gaining and growing, she really does not need more than one nursing session at night for *nutrition*- so that's the idea behind pushing the scheduled feed back as far as possible.

if you don't want to leave that first night, nurse her to sleep, put her down in a different room than the one you sleep in, and go to bed. tell your husband not to get you up if she wakes before 4 hours. if she seems "hungry", have a bottle of breastmilk or formula ready for him to try to give her. even if she refuses it, have him try a multitude of solutions (maybe even more than once) to get her to settle back down.

the idea is, if your husband is primarily out of the house during the daytime hours, and you like to sleep during the nighttime hours, by 7 months the baby should be getting on a similar schedule- encourage her to stay awake more and feed her more during the daytime so she doesn't need to eat at night, and will be more likely to sleep a bit longer during naps/evenings.

i'm not an opponent of CIO, either, but i think you may have to work on a realistic schedule for you all before you attempt any type of sleep training. fwiw, my kid is a tension-increaser, and never passed out from crying, just worked herself up more and more, and took us that much longer to settle her down and nurse her back to sleep. but by 7 months, the *majority* of her eating was done during the day/evening, not at night.

good luck and enjoy your rest!

[too fed up to put a name]

@Pnuts mama - thanks for that. She is on solids (has taken to solids in a way she has never taken to sleep!). She is a distractible baby (oh look, the cat!!) who never seems to nurse for very long in the day unless we have been out and it has been 3 to 4 hours since her last nursing. However, she is gaining very well (25th to 75th %tile).

I thought I would start by reducing the amount of time at the Boob during the night which will hopefully help to encourage more nursing in the day. I'll check Kellymom now. I wouldn't be comfortable just jumping into some kind of sleep training - I want to set the scene and get hubby to do the research first (I can't make decisions at the mo). At the same time, I have to balance that with getting myself some sleep - this post has made me realise how close to being ill I have become.

I feel really embarrassed to be th subject of this post, but at the same time, really pleased, as it has been the kick up the ass hubby and I have needed.

[bungalowgirl]

In was in a very similar spot about six weeks ago. My daughter was six months old at the time - snacking around the clock and never sleeping more than an hour at a stretch. I was so exhausted I could barely function. I couldn't even nap during the day because a) my baby will not nap and b) I have an older child - a preschooler - who also needed my attention.

Everything changed for me one night quite by accident. After months of my baby nursing for half an hour, sleeping for half an hour then nursing for a half an hour again, over and over again from about 10 p.m. until she finally fell asleep for about 90 minutes around 7 a.m., I hit a wall. I could not function and I was desperate.

My husband offered to take the baby into our spare room and try to keep her entertained so I could at least get four hours of uninterrupted sleep. (I don't know if this is true or not, but we were told that the body needs at least four hours of uninterrupted sleep to produce seratonin, and that's part of the reason you feel so terrible when subjected to long stretches of sleep deprivation - not enough seratonin.) Anyway, my husband brought the baby into the other room around 10 p.m. and she fell asleep AND DID NOT WAKE UP UNTIL 6 a.m. She didn't even cry before settling in. She just curled up next to my husband and peacefully co-slept with him the entire night. We thought it had to be a fluke, so we tried it again and again, she slept through the night. With the exception of a few rough nights during a bout with a nasty stomach bug a few weeks ago, she has continued to sleep through the night ever since. My theory is that the boob was just too tempting for her. She had refused to ever sleep in a bassinette, so we'd ended up co-sleeping. But when she was sleeping next to me, she couldn't resist the urge to snack all night long. When I'm not sleeping with her, there's no temptation, so she sleeps. Soundly. And I get to sleep as well. (My husband was sleeping before, so it's not much different for him - he gets a full night's sleep either way.)

I realize this isn't a good permanent solution (at some point, my husband and I might like to sleep in the same bed again!), but for now, we're each getting the sleep we need and I have the energy to be a better wife and a better mom to my older child because I'm no longer a walking zombie.

I know every baby is different and this might not work for everyone, but I thought I'd put it out there in case it's helpful to someone reading this thread.

Good luck. I hope you gets lots and lots of restful sleep soon.

[Shandra]

If we're recommending books (I'm still catching up) I just wanted to add "Sleepless in America" to the list, especially for approaching-toddler-age. The title almost put me off but it was a great book for helping us get more sleep.

For my son at around a year (might not work before then) the key really was putting MEALS on a schedule, which was counter-intuitive as we'd been BFing on demand. As soon as his digestion was set, his sleep schedule snapped in. I wouldn't say he slept through the night meaning 10 hrs, but he started to get a 5, 6, 7 hr chunk.

For the partner thing, I agree with the no-guilt statement on you but that your partner needs to step up. Did he?? Curious people on the Internet want to know!

[kellie]

Too fed - Girl. I can only offer your my love. I remember that when I went through this I couldn't wait to help those who were to go through it later. I remember reading loads on the internet and nothing helped. WHy is your child awake so much? Just a non-sleeper? Mine too. Have you tried (I know, gasp!) sleeping with her? Are you up with her because she's breastfeeding? Mine would feed while I slept. I still roused, but would change boobs each time. He woke up every 45 minutes. Sometimes for 10 minutes, sometimes for 4 hours. I was extremely PPD'd and I'm convinced that it's BECAUSE I was so tired. My boy wouldn't go to my husband, though he was willing. It was so horrible. My guess is that your little one needs more time next to you and (double gasp!) a formula bottle at middle night feeding time - if she's up more than 4 times, otherwise I'd give it at bed time. I can also tell you that Dr. Sears gave me some fantastic info through his book. Is your baby collicky? have you tried Zantac? Zantac was our God send for our collicky boy, but it oly made feeding easier when he woke up so much.

STOP CLEANING.
STOP SHAVING.
Shower only every other day.
Buy frozen meals.
You get your butt to bed every single time that baby sleeps.
Try to exercize - but only during times your baby will be awake.

I also know that after so many months of being the exclusive soother and feeder of my son that it was actually hard for me to leave him even when my husband would give me leave. I couldn't sleep - after so many months of being trained - even if my hubby said that he's be with the baby because I knew that there was no hope and he would eventually just come in to get me anyway. DAMN BOOBS!

Of course, if you aren't B feeding and are already co-sleeping, I can tell you that you are doing all you can. And I remember the desparation. It does subside. And your love for your child stays. I remember imagining throwing my child against the wall. How horrible is that!? Just don't do it. Go somewhere where you aren't alone. Showing her off makes you proud and reminds you of the sleflessness it takes to be a good mom.

And in 6 months or so you will be rewarded.

I wish I could hug you and give you a week of sleep. I am crying. Because I know your heart right now. remember that soon you will be where I am. Giving your best advice. With a clear head. And bright eyes.