Sleep!

This post is for Too Fed Up from yesterday (second page of comments, about halfway down--stupid Typepad doesn't let you link directly to a comment after the first page, apparently).

You need sleep. People have suggested anti-depressants, but at this point that's putting lipstick on a pig. Maybe, once you've got some sleep in you, you might benefit from ADs, but the immediate physical need, and the thing that's messing with your system, is lack of sleep. Which, let's remember, is used as a method of torture, because it breaks down all the physical and mental systems. You're literally being tortured at this point--no wonder you're losing it.

And no, one good night isn't going to be enough. You need 4-5 nights of good sleep, and then a schedule that gets you at least one 5-hour stretch every night. After a month of that, reassess, and maybe you'll still feel like you need ADs. But if you get them now, they're going to stress your system even more and just mask what's going on, and the real problem won't be addressed.

I'm worried about the way your sleep situation is structured because of the dynamic of your relationship with your partner. It sounds like he thinks taking care of the baby is your job, because he's using his job as a way to trump your need for sleep.

That's not right, and it's not fair.

Unless your partner does one of the following jobs:

• air traffic controller
• operator of heavy machinery (pilot, truck driver, construction vehicle operator, etc.)
• simultaneous translator for the UN
• hostage negotiator
• surgeon, especially neurosurgeon or eye surgeon

then his "having a job" does not in any way, shape, or form trump your responsibilities of taking care of your child during the day.

Presumably, your partner aided in the acquisition of this child, which means that he either gave the sperm (the fun way or the not fun way), paid for the sperm, signed the adoption papers, or opened the door when the stork arrived. He needs to take his turn when he's home, even during the night. There are partners all over the world who do nighttime care of their children (I get emails from many of them, and many of them comment or are commented about by their partners here). It means giving up a little of his own sleep, but it also means taking care of his child.

Any way you slice it, your partner needs to step in. There are some relationships in which both partners see taking care of the children as a shared responsibility. If your partner can't imagine that, and sees caring for your child as "woman's work," then he probably sees his job as providing for the family. You are sick from lack of sleep. He needs to fix that problem. There are many ways for him to do that--several nights in a hotel, hiring someone to come do the overnight shift for you, taking the baby in with him, etc. He can pick one of those methods, as long as it restores your health by giving you sleep.

This post sounds harsh, but the message needs to be sent: You are sick from lack of sleep. Your partner needs to care for you. I don't know if he's not aware of how bad the situation is, so maybe you can show him this post. If he gets you help, it's worth making him angry at me.

Comments

[pnuts mama]

AMEN, SISTER!!!

Lord how I wish someone had written this to me back when pnut was an infant. i don't think i had PPD, but i was DEFINITELY sleep deprived, and showed in nasty and terrible ways.

please, please get the rest you so desperately need. you need it for you and your baby. it is basic survival, like food and water, it is *not* being lazy, or unproductive, or slacking, but completely necessary to do the job of keeping yourself and your little one alive and healthy.

moxie, thanks so much for highlighting this part of yesterdays awesome discussion!

[JB]

It might be worth mentioning, too, that everyone seems to think that the first few weeks of the baby's life are the worst for sleep deprivation. That was definitely not my experience. During those first few weeks, things were chaotic, there was no schedule, and we were having trouble learning to nurse without pain, but I also had all kinds of help, from two blessed weeks with my mother to a very caring lactation consultant to friends offering to let me nap. Five months in, my baby still wakes three to ten times a night, and no one is offering to let me nap! I think the exhaustion and sleep deprivation are much worse when they've had a chance to accumulate. It is NOT lazy to say so. It doesn't mean you can't handle motherhood or can't take care of your kid. It is just an observation: look at that, I've had no sleep and it's making me crazy. Better do something about that.

In other words, take care of yourself. If your husband is like mine, he'll be more upset that you didn't say anything and didn't let him take care of his beloved wife and child.

[ABCD]

Yep. I haven't slept more than a 2-3 hour stretch in 6 years, when my oldest was born. Last night the 17 month old was up every hour, then up from 3-5am. I would do A LOT for a 5 hour stretch of sleep, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[hedra]

And since you're hyper-attuned to the baby noises thing, I'll double recommend that the solution involve you not being able to hear the baby. Have baby go somewhere else, or you go somewhere else.

(Sorry for the lipstick on the pig thing, that was me. Sleep can be got without a prescription or a doctor appointment, and serves as a supply booster if you're bfing, too.)

[Michelle]

Too Fed Up:

I thought Moxie was a little harsh about your husband, and a little flippant about seeking medical intervention. If you are thinking a lot about leaving or especially if you are also having any thoughts about hurting yourself or the baby (the part about how they'd be better off without you worried me a little along these lines), then you need help that only a doctor can give.

I think Moxie IS right that you need at least a little more sleep. If your baby is 7 months old, try these things to get at least one stretch of four hours:

1) throw out your monitor. A seven month old's cry will wake you without it. Consider that babies do a little crying and grumping in their sleep and you aren't doing them any favors by rushing in and picking your kid up at the first peep.

2)At least start out the night in your bed. And try to go back to your bed after the late night feedings. Trust me. The quality of your sleep will be better.

3)The "dream feed"/topping off idea worked well for us. That is, regardless of when your baby last ate...right before you go to sleep, go in and nurse/feed the baby. If your baby takes bottles, ask your husband to take over this feeding. This has somehow REALLY improved my sleep and I'm not exactly sure why. I think that even though my baby still wakes 2 1/2 hours after this dream feed...my husband handling this feeding gives me a chance to relax and really fall asleep when I hit the bed. Also, my husband wasn't really sure how to help and I think it makes him feel good to see that taking over the bedtime feeding is really helpful.

Another feeding he could take over is first thing in the morning when he is getting up for work (for us, the 6 a.m.).

Good luck to you!

[caramama]

Moxie - Can you just repost this post of your every few weeks? I am always seeing exhausted mothers trying to take care of the baby/kid all day and ALL NIGHT, feeling like because their husbands work they have to go without everything they need for the kid's sake.

What job is more important that care for a human being all day long? Shouldn't that be done with enough sleep to be able to make good decisions and provide a generally happy environment? I know I can't do those things when I'm incredibly sleep deprived! Why is it that woman so often put their basic needs aside because they "just stay home with the child(ren)"?

Okay, rant over. For now.

Fed up - I went back and re-read what you wrote yesterday and you said something about thinking that maybe you are a selfish person. You sound the complete opposite to me, and I think that might be part of the problem.

Someone else has mentioned this before, but you know how on airplanes they tell you that if there is a problem and the air masks come down you are supposed to put yours on first? This is because unless you put yours on first and take care of your basic need to breathe, you may not be able to put your child's air mask on and do what is then needed to make sure your child is okay. But you HAVE to make sure your air mask is on FIRST.

I tell this to a friend of mine all the time. Put your air mask on first. Take care of your basic needs first. Get help to do so. If you don't get enough sleep, it will lead to depression (if you aren't there already). These things are intrinsically tied. And Moxie is so right, as always. You need your husband to help you get the sleep you need before it goes on any longer.

What worked for me and my husband was doing shifts. When I nursed the baby to sleep, he took the monitor and was "on call" until 2. I would go to sleep by 8--no later than 9-- and get a whole 5 to 6 hours of sleep!!! Even if I was up for most of the rest of the night, that chunk of sleep made it possible for me to go on. After 2, I was "on call" because at that point the baby needed to be nursed. And then my husband would get his chunk of sound sleep after 2. If your baby needs to nurse more, please either pump or use formula (yeah, I said it! I did! And I meant it!) so your husband can get up with the baby and feed the baby prior to whatever time of night he is on call.

I'm sure you all can see I feel passionatly about this. I feel so strongly that men should share a more equal role in the nighttime parenting--Moxie said it so well above.

JB - I agree completely that it was harder to be sleep deprived for month after month with it all adding up and people not understanding why I would need help at that point. If not for my husband understanding and helping, I would have seriously lost it (more than I did).

[Moxie]

Yeah, if she's in enough trouble that she's having thoughts about leaving, then she's way past the dream feed idea. She needs to be out of any responsibility for the baby at night for a week to get sleep.

I'm not telling her not to see a doctor, but ADs *at this point* are like treating a broken leg with painkillers. You've got to set the leg first.

I guess I have no sympathy for a man who does no nighttime duty and yet has a wife on the edge. Sorry. That's just me.

[rudyinparis]

Hey, and Too Fed Up... happy birthday, friend. Please keep posting and let us know that you're getting what you need.

[caramama]

And Happy Birthday to Fed Up!!!

[Sara]

@Fed Up -
You say your child is 30 weeks? Mine is now 37 and I could have written that comment about 2 months ago. The first 4 months were great sleepwise, the everything fell apart. I think the lowest was when I just sat in the rocker and let LO cry - my husband came in and said it was torture. As in I was torturing my child and him for having to listen to it. Wow, that pissed me off, and made me feel even worse. Those were the nights that I would think: Well, I can't get in the car and drive around to get LO to sleep (which I often did during the day) because I might accidentallyonpurpose run into a telephone poll, and LO might get hurt. I have never told anyone that. I had never before wanted to hurt myself, but I did during that time.
The positive? LO has taken 2 at least one hour naps for the past week or two, and he is sleeping at least a 4 hour stretch every night. Sometimes even 8 HOURS!!!!! So, things do get better. I could tell on the dark days that just 4 hours together made a huge difference.
I'm not sure what to tell you about your husband. Mine is zero help with the baby. He plays with him about 15-30 minutes a day, and recently he played with him for a while on a saturday and got him down for a nap. For this he was well rewarded. He actually said one time that what I do is nothing compared to working 40hrs a week. HA! I feel like writing him a letter to tell him how freaking ridiculous that is. Maybe I will include a link to this post. Sadly, my self esteem is so shot I probably won't get up the courage.

[scotti]

I feel the sleep deprevation pain!

Did anyone else see the 60 Minutes pieces on the Science of Sleep on Sunday? Excellent stuff on the newest research on sleep - and how important it is to our bodies in many different ways.
I kept waiting for them to mention moms - but they didn't!
You can watch online - worth seeing both parts:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml

[wealhtheow]

Too Fed Up--

I think a lot of us have been there. I remember one day a couple months ago when I'd gotten maybe 4 hours of sleep--and the longest consecutive stretch was 45 minutes. I'm a girl who NEEDS sleep, so this was basically the same as getting no sleep at all. I remember I felt like I was literally loosing my mind. I remember thinking death would be preferable to this because at least I wouldn't be so tired. Luckily, a friend was coming over that day--and the same way I was too proud to ask for help, I was too proud to call her and cancel. When she walked in the door I fell apart. She helped me recover, and after I fed the baby she took him out on a walk--and stayed out for 3 hours with him so I could get some sleep. I PROMISE you, your friends want to help. Don't be too proud to call someone up and ask them to take the baby for a couple hours so you can get a nap. Needing to call in the relief shift does NOT make us bad mothers.

[Maureen]

Hi... just chimming in. Not to let the husband/partner off the hook (this also would come into play if the husband/partner had one of the 5 professions Moxie listed) but one option we used when the twins were little was a night nanny/doula - oh my gosh, it was like pure bliss. She'd come at 10PM and stay until 6 or 7AM and do the feedings for the little guys. At that point, we had the boys in the living room so she just hung out on the couch and lightly napped until they cried. AND, on the nights we had the doula (she was more expensive than the night nanny), she would spend the first hour giving us parenting tips on baby care. That was a huge help. We found that option when my mom went back home after helping us the first 5-6 weeks. She told me I needed to reach out to my twins club since I was crying all the time and completely overwhelmed.

Also, I have to say, when I was home on maternity leave, I was so jealous my husband got to go back to work after the first week... he HAD to have a shower and a couple hours of sleep so he could function at work. It was actually kind of a relief when I went back to work as we both HAD to have a shower and get some sleep.

Too Fed Up - I so remember those days. No sleep is soooo hard. And, just an hour or two here and there is also sooo hard. The whole - you can nap when they do can add up to eight hours but it isn't in nice 3-4 hour chunks so you will still be exhausted. Get help any way you can - if your husband won't get on board (I'm not giving him an out but at this point it is more important for you to take care of you than to worry who it is helping), can you get a friend or your mom or MIL to help some? Maybe the whole night thing might be hard to get someone to help but you could get them to help during the day for a good 5-6 hour chunk and get some sleep then.

Oh, and Happy Birthday to you. I hope your birthday present to yourself is some help and some sleep.

[mary]

Too Fed Up -- you sound like me a year or more ago. I wanted to run away from home, too. You probably can even find my husband's question to Moxie in the archives. I did go to the doctor and she told me the same thing Moxie said above -- that I was sleep deprived and once I got some sleep, I would be better. And she was SO RIGHT. I had a hard time falling asleep -- I'd go to bed any just lay there, so my doctor recommended taking a Tylenol PM or a Benadryl to knock me out. It helped. Once I got that first little bit of sleep, I had less and less trouble falling asleep after that and started feeling better as the days wore on.

My husband helped out tremendously with night duty -- he would fetch the little guy from his bed and bring him to me for nursing. Even that helped, because you don't have to wake up as much and can fall back asleep more easily.

Dream feed -- our pediatrician recommended that as well, although she didn't call it that. Her words were "Look -- he's going to wake up hungry sometime in the night. Either he'll choose or you can choose. Personally, I'd like to choose and get some sleep." Wise words that worked like a charm with our little guy.

Take care of yourself -- like caramama said, you need to put on your mask first (LOVE the analogy!!). Keep us posted on how you are doing.

[pnuts mama]

i don't know, i won't say "don't get help from your doctor" because it can't hurt to at least put in a call, i can only say from my own experience that feelings of wanting to leave b/c you need a break doesn't *necessarily* scream out to me PPD on the brink of danger. i'd need to hear more along the lines of feelings of hopelessness, helplessness, despair, lack of joy, etc.- where yesterday i really just read "jesus effing christ i am so gd tired that i can no longer function and i honestly feel as though i'd be a better person if i didn't have to do this" -which, ime, is understandable. i'm not trying to downplay PPD *AT ALL* but, i guess i'd just have to hear more from fed up to have a better perspective of what she's going through.

i wish i had just been smarter back then and said to my husband- "here is a bottle of formula (forget ebm at night)- go away and feed her and let me sleep. thanks."

and i can't agree more with what JB, caramama, etc said- the first month with a newborn was an absolute breeze compared to months 3-7, when the sleep deprivation became cumulative, and more was expected from me (by me, family, etc) since i so wrongly assumed that by that point, we'd all be on a "schedule" (hahaha)and sleeping longer/better. no and no. no one tells you about cluster feeding and growth spurts and developmental regressions. well, no one but moxie et.al.!!

happy birthday, fed up!! i hope you get the gift of sleeeeeeep!!

[becky]

Wow! I go away for 2 days and a doppelganger comments with a similar problem.

Here are my husbands excuses for me being on duty 24 hours a day with a colicky 8 week old:

1) Business travel. Gotta be fresh for meetings. He's gone every 2 weeks, then I"m on 24 hour duty.
2) He puts a roof over our heads, job is a priori, unless we want to be out in the street.
3) I have the boobs. I have NO IDEA why my 2 month old wants to eat every 1.5 hours around the clock and neither do the LCs I've seen, but it doesn't seem to be abating.
4) It would be unwise of us both to be up at the same time, that's wasting sleep.
5) It was my original idea to start a family now.

So his choices for my sleep (with 12-13 feedings a day, it is like torture around here) are to give up breastfeeding and go to formula and rice cereal which will "knock her out."

She doesn't nap long during the day either, mostly 30 minute catnaps. The ped says it's all a "variation of normal" and to suck it up.

So...bottom line is there are a lot of us out there.

[ValleyGal]

Too Fed Up, we've all been there. But what you've got to remember when you're feeling "selfish" and not good enough and weak and having all those hateful thoughts is that, sometimes, the hardest part of being a mother is remembering to take care of yourself. What I hear from your post is that what your child needs more than anything right now is a mom who's gotten some sleep. If your husband won't get with the program (which would create a second problem to be solved when you're more rested), then solve it yourself. Hire a mother's helper duing the afternoons - even a 13 year old can watch a baby when you're home, go to your room, turn on a fan (so you won't hear the baby) and sleep during the day. Frankly, if your husband isn't supportive, don't tell him -- just solve the problem. If you don't have the money to hire help, go to church / your local community center / your next door neighbors and ask for help -- there has to be a grandmother in your town who would love to rock a sweet baby for a few hours while the mother gets some desperately needed rest. Part of what this community reminds me every day is that people are, at their root, good and sometimes we have not be afraid to ask for help.

Good luck, Fed Up. Let us know how you're doing.

[caramama]

@Sara - I just want to hug you! I'm so sorry you are having to do it all. I wish you would write him a letter or send him this link. Your self esteem should not be so low. You are doing an extremely difficult job with little help, and you are doing great at it! You should be so proud of yourself! Even if you don't think you are doing a good job, you really really are. And if your husband thinks its torture to let the baby cry and to wake him with the crying, then tell him to get the baby to stop crying. There is only so much one person can do, and you are doing great!

[Trope]

@Fed Up:

Oh, friend. You are so tired. I'm sorry you have to go through this part of the sleep training (I'm a firm believer that ALL of us train our babies on how to sleep, not just the Ferber/Weissbluth people!).

Something about having a baby brought out my inner three year old: "I wanna do it MYSELF!" In case you're feeling at all like this, I want to say to you (and remind myself) that we just can't do it alone, even when we really really want to. I had a perfect plan for how I was going to take care of my child, work out of the home, make my own baby food, keep everything tidy... YEAH RIGHT. Whatever your original plan is, scrap it and start fresh, with whatever gets you the recharge you need and whatever keeps your baby fed and safe.

I dug in my heels on every concession I had to make to that original plan (letting my partner wake with the baby, taking antidepressents while nursing, staying home from work once in a while while the kiddo was at daycare, turning him over to a friend to babysit on maternity leave because I was crying too hard to take care of him) and my resistance made the process a lot harder than it had to be. Now, I don't regret taking the medication, hiring help (even though our budget screams) or calling my husband home from work. I do regret making it so hard for the people who were trying to help me, and spending so much time scolding myself about not being a perfect mom.

It *WILL* get better, someday soon. But you need to start changing things to make life easier on yourself. Don't be ashamed. You are worth it.

[SarcastiCarrie]

Even air traffic controllers get weekends. The weekend is upon us. So, even though Too Fed Up's husband works, he can take his turn this weekend. It might even be a 3-day weekend.

I have been the mom who just wanted to go away. I have written to Ask Moxie (back when I was just Carrie before I'd had enough sleep to become SarcastiCarrie) because I could not dare to wake up one more night. I could not function. My eyelids hurt. My hair hurt. I was tired.

We tried a lot of things. I cried a lot. I had a supportive husband who had no idea how to help, so eventually, I just told him what he was going to do and I went to bed. It was hard, but ohmygosh, it was great! We made a whole new plan (like the you're on until 2 am, then I take over thing and sure, there was formula involved because pumping "extra" milk for that was one more stressor I did not need).

You need something, anything. You need help. You need sleep. Once you have sleep, you can probably devise a plan, but until then, you just need sleep.

[ValleyGal]

Oh, and Becky? Unless your husband has meetings on Saturdays and Sundays, then he's not getting it. I was a SAHM when my son was an infant and I took the shifts on nights before workdays (my son woke at least once per night until he was 18 months old) because I could go back to sleep immediately and my husband would be awake for hours. BUT, at least night before a weekend day a week, he would take the duty for the baby in the middle of the night AND would be the one to get up with the baby at 7am and would let me sleep 'til mid-day if that's what I wanted. Just like he needs a break from his job, you need a break from yours. Frankly, if he's getting six nights of sleep a week, he'll be plenty fresh for all those meetings. Oh, and just because your baby wants to eat every 1.5 hours doesn't mean you have to be there -- your husband is perfectly capable of giving your child a bottle of pumped breastmilk.

I don't mean to sound angry or strident, but it frustrates me when mothers are made to feel like they must be martyred to do a good job (or that SAHMs don't need any help!).

[Sherry]

I agree that sleep is for Too Fed Up is more important than anything. But sometimes, some people get to a place that they can't get out of without professional help. It's hard to know from a distance just where she is. I really struggled with sleep, because I'm a light sleeper and prone to insomnia, but I'm happy to report that the girl is sleeping 12 hours at a stretch and life has taken on a new glow.

[stacy]

Moxie is so, so right. She gave me the same advice when I was in this position. It took me quite a while to follow it, but once I did, my life changed. I can't express how much better things are now that I sleep.

My husband is great about doing night duty. But I had to ask him for help, first. He really didn't know how exhausted I was until I told him. Once I did, he stepped right up. It turned out that "I can't bother him, he has to work" was all in my head. I was being a martyr. He never actually said that, I just assumed it. But it's hard to let go as a mom, and no matter how much you suffer, if you're handling all the night wakings yourself, you don't have to trust somebody else.

But you need to learn how. Because nobody can be on-duty 24/7/365. And like ValleyGal said, if the help doesn't come from your husband, it needs to come from somewhere.

[jules]

just a ditto on the get dad to help thing. i know it's not always possible given the relationship dynamic, but...in our case, at 9 months when i was at high risk for severe PPD, cutting back on night-time feeds PLUS dad going in to soothe at non-feeding times was a real turning point and seems to have made us all happier in at least 3 ways:

1) baby not waking as often (less motivation), so less grumpy

2) dad feeling proud and more empowered, involved, etc.

3) mom getting better sleep, being nicer to dad and so both of us happier

it helps that he's a night owl and i'm an early bird, so we kind of have a deal that i handle anything after 3ish...i get up w/ her at 5:30 and he sleeps til 7 or so. it doesn't mean we don't gristle and grouse at each other at night, but it has made a world of difference to involve him. and of course when something is really wrong, you'll know, and then you step in and do your mommy thing.

one piece of dr. sears advice that worked for me was don't persist in a failed experiment! change something....you really need to.

It helped that our GP is a family friend and this is her #1 piece of sleep advice for the "under-2-baby-wakes-up-habit". Dad--it's your turn! She gave my husband a stern talk on a couple of occasions that encouraged him to own the situation. i even got to sleep upstairs in teh guest room for a few stretches to catch up on sleep. (but like so many others, i really can't sleep if i'm not sure she's asleep and okay....)

You could perhaps ask an outside person to give your husband(s) a "talk"???

and another totally gratuitous and far less important piece of advice in re: poor sleep when you do sleep: i was eating a lot of not so healthy food--cookies, ice cream, etc.--as a way to compensate for feeling so crappy all the time. high energy foods/carbs are a totally normal response to sleep deprivation, except that it does interfere with night time sleep at least for me it did. no sugar/white flour after 6pm definitely leads to a better night's sleep for me...i eat my ice cream early now!

[Sherry Wade]

@ becky: Oh, I've heard that excuse many a time: "I didn't want to have a child. It was your decision and I did it for you." Grrrr. And he has a point, I suppose.

[Michelle]

Hmmmm...yes, Moxie, IF her husband is refusing to help I don't have any sympathy for him either. But I re-read Too Fed Up's post and I don't think she is saying that.

Actually, if anything, she describes him coming home from work to care for her because she was sobbing on the phone. So, to me, there is some evidence that the husband wants to help. I think that help can come in different forms, and even some baby steps (dream feeds, etc.) might improve things for her.

Even if your husband isn't an ogre, it can be hard to break out of the nursing around the clock cycle...AND being sleep deprived doesn't make clear thinking and communication any easier. Just suddenly changing from feeding every two hours to having your husband do two nightime feedings in a row might be a big leap for some people. If so, and if someone needs help, I think it bears pointing out that there are medical professionals out there- not just psychiatrists with prescriptions, but in my neighborhood there are Registered Nurses who are affiliated with a hospital who can come into your home, talk about the feeding/sleeping/division of labor problems and help evaluate medical issues like post-partum depression as well.

[Lise]

@ Too Fed Up and Sara: Hugs to you both. I say let your partner give one bottle of formula a night - one formula out of how many BF per day - it's a drop in the bucket and it gives YOU a break.

yesterday was terrible for me, if someone could have taken care of LO for 3 hours I would have been eternally grateful, and would happily repay the favour today (or another day), when I feel better. Too Fed Up, if you live in Vancouver, I'll come help you.

[Parisienne Mais Presque]

There is nothing more isolating than being the only awake in the middle of the night with a baby. You feel like you're the only one up in the neighborhood, country, universe.

My husband's help with nighttime parenting kept me sane. Even when there isn't much he could do except change a diaper and, when I was really down, hold my hand while I nursed the baby because at that moment in time my son only accepted me, it made all the difference in the world not to be alone.

Every time a male colleague talks to me about his new baby I make sure to pointedly ask him if he's doing his share of night duty. If he says no with the excuse "my wife is breastfeeding/on maternity leave" I tell him exactly what I think of his excuse... and then offer him some suggestions on how he could help out.

It probably doesn't make me too popular, but I figure that the sooner we make it clear to men everywhere than nighttime parenting is a two-person job and caring for a child all day is not a vacation, the better!

[Colleen]

I'd like to think the husbands wish they knew how to help, and they are just out of their depth so they respond with whatever defense they can think of--"your job is easy", "I have to work all day", etc. Our situation is one where we live in Manhattan so there is no way to escape baby's cry, so I always take the easy way out and nurse him back to sleep. I, too, am mega sleep deprived. I am going to share this post with the hubby, for sure. I don't have solutions to offer, only empathy. Mine is 37 weeks and we had a MAJOR party from 4-530 last night along with a waking almost every hour, and we cosleep.

[Katie]

This topic is so helpful and needed! I am suffering from going 6+ mos without a single night of decent sleep. I never more get more than 3 hours of uninterrupted sleep at a stretch, and often times less than that. The cumulative effect is exhausting and depressing. And, like the 60 minutes segment mentioned (paraphrased), it is making me dumb. I am only working 2 days a week but my logic, judgment and overall ability to think are gone. I could convince my husband to take on some of the night feedings but by 6.5 mos daughter is stubbornly refusing a bottle (and we have tried many, along with sippy cups). She will only take milk from me. We have tried waiting her out but after a few hours of hungry crying on and off it becomes torturous for all of us. When I am at work she will go the full day without milk (though she is eating cereal and veggies) so I feel like she has to have milk at night to make sure she gets the nutrition she needs. Reading the stories here does make me feel like I am not alone in my sleep insanity but I still could cry from exhaustion. Anyone have ideas?

[Laura]

@Becky- my first daughter had sleep and eating habits just like that, and was colicky too (huge amounts of screaming and spitting up). Being new parents we just assumed this was normal and wondered why all the other new babies we knew slept so much. Then at 2 months our daughter was finally diagnosed with gastrointestinal reflux and put on Zantac, which helped tremendously. It was sheer torture up until then. I realized in retrospect that she was nursing so much because she was in less pain while she ate, and also because she wasn't keeping much down. She wasn't sleeping well because lying flat makes reflux worse. Once we knew what the problem was, our pediatrician had us put her to bed in her carseat so she'd stay upright! Don't know if this might be your problem too, but it's worth checking out.

[Bella]

Just to chime in on how important YOUR sleep is, Fed Up, here are a few facts that are out there about how crucial sleep is for your functioning (not sure if the 60 Min episode mentions these and more). And these facts refer to WAAAAAY less severe sleep-deprivation than you are experiencing. I completely agree with Moxie that getting your partner to help is crucial, and maybe pointing out these things might help bring the argument home:

• A new baby typically deprives parents of 400-750 hours of sleep in the first year
• Being awake for 17 hours straight leads to the same kind of impairment as a blood alcohol level of .05% (in other words, you could be arrested for driving at that level of impairment)
• Fatigue is involved in approximately 1 in 6 fatal road accidents
• Sleep deprivation affects both long- and short-term memory
• High-level problem-solving skills are most impaired by lack of sleep (this would include figuring out the best way to make your child sleep better, making the right choices for childcare, figuring out how to mix the formula, avoid allergens, give the right dose of reflux medication, and so on)
• Prolonged sleep-deprivation has been repeatedly linked to depression
• Some studies have shown that women need an hour more sleep than men per night; not getting this extra sleep may be one reason why women are far more susceptible to depression than men
• The 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill off Alaska, the Challenger Space Shuttle disaster and the Chernobyl nuclear accident have all been attributed to human errors due to sleep deprivation

[caramama]

I have two ideas pertaining to sharing nighttime parenting that might help people, but it may apply only to older babies:

1. I think sometimes we assume that the baby is always waking from hunger. (I'm not including those with babies who are younger/not on solids/need to eat every 1.5 hours/etc.) But we came up with our "shifts" because one night I couldn't take it and I just could. not. get. out. of. bed. So my husband got up and rocked the baby, with the goal being that I would drag myself out of bed in a couple minutes. Well, darned if she didn't go back to sleep rather quickly in his arms just being rocked. So if you can get your partner on board with helping, let them try to just rock or walk or sing or whatever the baby to bed before going to a bottle or bring the baby to you. You may be pleasantly surprised.

2. Now that my daughter is a year, we are going through the 12 month sleep regression (hurray!), but luckily this one isn't nearly as bad as previous ones. In fact, she often only wakes once sometime between 4 and 6, and my usual trick of nursing her back to sleep is actually making her more awake. Apparently she just wants to be rocked/held/walked/co-slept back to sleep. And sometimes it's actually easier for hubby to get her back to sleep because he doesn't smell like mommy/milk. My husband and I just today (!!!) made a new agreement: We are going to take turns co-sleeping with her (for us, it's in the bed in the nursery) in the mornings when she gets up at this time. This is only possible because my hubby finally figured out how to rock her to sleep and then slip into the bed with her and co-sleep (a desperate move one night from a very tired man!).

Anyway, just thinking of ideas. I have no idea how to get a non-helpful partner on board with helping, though.

[anonforthis]

It is so hard. I had a baby who wouldn't take a bottle/was very mommy-focused in the evenings, and a husband whose emotional health tends to disintegrate very quickly with lack of sleep. Our "solution" - and I put that in quotes, because it was far from perfect for us, but it was the best given the circumstances - was for him to take on chunks of time in the mornings before work and on the weekends, when I could nap or shower or do yoga. Far from ideal, but it was what he could give and still stay sane, and it did help get me through the hardest months, sleep-wise.

I now wish I'd called on more outside help, though. And it does give me great pause about having a second.

[paola]

I agree with Caramama that s/he may not actually be hungry (actually s/he probably ISN'T hungry I would hazard to say).At 7 months we sleep trained our daughter as I was fed up with nursing her every 2/3 hours and boy was she a tough nut to crack. I definitely needed to enlist my husbands help for that one as she wasn't going to have a bar of me going into her and NOT feeding her. It took a whole month before she got the message, but only worked when I sent DH in to attend to her and even now when she wakes before 5.30 ( which is my cut off for night-time feeding), in he goes. He DON'T like it, but he ain't got any choice as the house is small and she keeps him up too.

[leslie]

This does not need to be war. Try co-sleeping. We started when our LO was 2-months old and she is now almost 6 months. It is especially great for night nursing because we don't even have to really wake up. She doesn't have to cry to be fed. I would HATE waking up because I usually have a really hard time falling back asleep. We ALL sleep incredibly well. I wouldn't trade it for anything!

[too fed up to put a name]

Too Fed Up Here,

Thank you so much for this - I will take the advice as I feel utter desparation. So many comments are ringing true for me. I just don't know how much more I can take - it does feel like torture. I cried in the street today as I walked her.

I'm slowly reading and digesting the comments but I ought to clarify that my hubby is really good with the baby. He works 12 hour shifts and some of those are night shifts. Because he has an hours drive in the morning, then a 12 hour day, then an hours drive home, I felt that he needed his sleep before the days he worked.

On his days off, he cleans the house and walks her and lets me rest. But you are all right - he needs to take some night shifts. And he would be up for it if I asked. He's offered to take annual leave to help me.

Part of the loneliness I described yesterday comes from my feeling that he just has no idea what it is like to woken constantly - I sometimes feel like the I can't make it clear just how terrible I am feeling.

But I guess we have got into a rut because she never took a bottle. So every time she woke, it was just 'easier' for me to go. I have introduced a cup that she will sip from but she's not very good yet and equal amounts go in her mouth and down her chin.

I just don't know how I can do this as she hits the roof if anyone goes to her in the night other than me. She also hits the roof if I go to her to just comfort her instead of getting out The Boob. Plus, she really doesn't know what to do with a bottle, so the feedings have to come from me.

I find it difficult to come up with sensible solutions at the mo. I have read the 'Going Insane From Lack of Sleep' post so I guess I just need to send in hubby (when he is off) if she wakes before 'needing' to nurse (and I'm not sure how much is nutritional need v's comforting back to sleep need)? And then listen to sobs? All you're advice will be very gratefully received.

Thank you for this, I have to get back to the lo now but I will read and take heart in these comments. I hope that this is helping others who are feeling the same.

[hedra]

I'm really glad he's on board.

My best friend had two kids with really bad colic. One of the things she gave me as a new mommy gift was a set of earplugs. I looked at her like she'd lost her mind, but she said that they don't cut out all the sound, just take it down to bearable so you can think or deal, or if someone else is 'on' you can sleep. It is a really simple solution for that part, if you can't manage the sleeping in a hotel option.

If your DH doesn't wake right now when she cries, trust me, he WILL GROW EARS FOR IT. My DH could sleep next to a screaming baby and not stir, never knew how often the twins were awake at night, etc. - BUT, when he chose the assigment and went to sleep knowing that he was 'on', the ears developed. I maybe had to nudge him once or twice, if that. He's now attuned enough that he can wake to a distant 'Daddy?' from the older kids, and still sleep through the twins waking up miserable. The ears come, he'll grow them. Trust it.

As for the only-mommy-will-do thing, yeah, I hear ya. My kids take bottles, but not if I'm in the house. Breaking the routine/rules may help - leave for the evening, and make sure lo knows you've left. Night may still involve angry crying, but also trust that even though she's angry about it, she's still comforted by someone listening to her vent her frustration that something changed and she didn't get to pick what or when or how. Good luck!

[paola]

My baby WOULD hit the roof when I'd go in to comfort her without the boob. She would totally freak out when my husband went in, or my MIL or someone other than me, but I found that was a sign that things were working. A momentary ( well more like half an hour) freak out and then eventually she realised, 'these guys aren't kidding, I might as well get back to sleep' It's not everyone's cup o' tea, but getting more sleep for me and for her in the end outweighed everything else.

[jenniferh]

Lots of hugs to "Too Fed up" and everyone else going through this.

My son, who is now almost 15 mos old, was not a great sleeper as an infant. Until he was 7 months old he rarely slept more than 3 hours at a time. The way my husband and I managed is by dividing up the night.

He's a night owl anyway, and he would stay up until 1 or 2 am with the monitor working in the basement. Then DH would bring me the monitor at 2 am, and then he would go sleep in the guest room. I often went to bed at 8 pm, so I would get a chunk of sleep from 8 pm to 1 or 2, and DH would sleep solid from 2 am until 7 am. My son was not interested in a bottle either and loved breastfeeding but we tried our best to get him to at least go without the breast from 8 pm to 1 am starting at about 4 mos. He would then nurse more often between 1 am and waking at about 6ish-7ish.

I don't think this would work for everyone but it worked for us. We're back to sharing a bed but sleeping separately for a few months helped both us get lots more sleep. I remember going out of my mind with exhaustion.

I feel very lucky that my husband was understanding even though he was a very demanding job. He works 60+ hours a week and is also an author so he often spends the evening hours writing. Along the way he tried his best but I often had to remind him just how horrible I was feeling. I was really honest even when I thought I might make him mad.

I don't think I would have gotten through that time if I didn't have Moxie. My mantra became "they all sleep through the night eventually..they all sleep through the night eventually..." And lo and behold, right at 14 months, he started sleeping through the night. I was shocked. I am still in shock yet so relieved. I am preparing myself for the 18 month sleep regression but, for now, I am starting to feel like a real human again.

[Cloud]

@Too Fed Up- I'm so glad your hubby is on board. Since you say your baby won't take a bottle, you may want to consider nightweaning. Pick a time when hubby can survive with seriously reduced sleep, because he has to do the majority of the work, but our experience when we did this (at 9 mos) was that it was way easier than we expected. We used the "delay the time before the first night feed" method (which I read about here). Basically, we picked a target time before which I would not nurse. Hubby went in any time she woke up before that time. She cried a bit, but he was there to comfort her. I put a pillow over my head and tried to sleep, because I was "on" once the first feed happened. We night weaned in about 10 days using this method. She still wakes up, but not needing a feed makes it easier to work the schedule so that both Hubby and I get the sleep we need.

To all those whose hubbys won't help- big hugs. I call bullsh*t on the "I have to work" excuse. I find work easier than baby duty AND I have to pump during the day. In fact, a lot of us mommies who work outside the home consider our days at work to be far, far easier than a day at home with the baby, particularly on little sleep. I am an informatics manager/scientist with a fairly demanding job. I am busy the entire time I'm at work (except when I read Moxie while I pump), and have to make presentations, make data-driven decisions, etc. But at least I get to eat and pee when I want to. And no one throws up on me, starts screaming for no apparent reason, or needs me to read Brown Bear, Brown Bear 8500 times in a row.

Three things that help me deal with the continuing sleep issues we have (Pumpkin just isn't a very good sleeper):

1. Going to bed stupidly early. Like 8:30. Her best stretch of sleep is the first one.

2. Afternoon naps- during our bad sleep times, if anyone offers to take Pumpkin for a walk while I nap, I accept.

3. Accepting that this is the way my daughter is, it is not my fault, and focusing my energy on how to handle the situation rather than trying to "solve" her sleep problems.

[anon for duhhh]

But what comment are you originally referring to, Moxie? I went back and read yesterday's posts and I can't find the comment/discussion that sparked this post! What am I missing? I'm not getting enough sleep either I guess. =/

[SUE]

I second the recommendation for earplugs. With my first, i was more of a martyr, and would often lie awake worrying about the psychological damage I was inflicting by letting my husband take care of her on his night shifts. This time, I just repeat to myself - "you don't have memories of being an infant, neither will he. just let him cry and go to sleep" and then i do. Of course, husband has fewer shifts overall with the new guy, because I'm breastfeeding and we're cosleeping, but that just makes it all the more final when I do declare it his turn.

Becky - I've had one formula fed child and one breastfed child and trust me, formula does NOT make them sleep any better. If you want to supplement so your husband can take a couple of feeds and relieve you, go for it, but weaning completely will definitely not help with the sleep situation, and may have pretty significant negative emotional consequences for you.

[Katy]

I agree with the others who've let Dad take a hand. My son BJ is now 20 months old and I can count the number of times he's slept though the night on one hand. He pretty much always wakes and, worse, he's often awake for 1-2 hours. BUT, we've found that even though he might protest at first, he definitely goes to sleep faster with my husband than with me (my husband likes to joke that it's because he's so boring) but really it's because there's less interest in potential boobs and nursing and just the idea that it's time to go to sleep. And at first, when I hear BJ crying because he wants me, I feel bad, but then I remind myself that my husband is an EQUAL caregiver to me, and that I shouldn't feel bad that I'm leaving BJ to his Dad, because who else should be just as good as a Mom to him? In fact, I really want BJ to feel as comforted by my husband as by me, so I figure it's a good thing. And the result has been, very gradually, that Bj wakes less often and is awake for shorter periods. Right now my husband does ALL the nightcare and let me tell you, after 18 months of broken sleep, it's a delight to sleep all night! I feel like a new person.

[SUE]

oh, and be creative and go where you need to go so you don't hear the crying. I've even slept in the back seat of our car in the driveway when I've gotten desperate enough. Not that that's exactly to be recommended, but do what you have to do. They'll work something out within a few nights, I promise.

[Amy]

For Too Fed Up and in defense of the men...

I wonder if your husband even knows how bad it is? #3 first slept through the night at about 9 months. After that first night I made a comment to my hubby that I hadn't had a 5 hour stretch of sleep since he was born last May. "Really??" my husband replied. He had no clue. He just hadn't thought about it. Sure, I'd complained that the baby was up every 2 hours some nights... but hubby just hadn't put two and two together that since the baby had come, I hadn't had a good nights sleep. I guess I wasn't specific enough in my complaints about sleep deprivation.

So, in the past two nights the baby (now 10 mos old) has gone back to waking every two hours (either a sleep regression or the cold he has) and when I lamented this hubby said, "But he's been sleeping through the night!" "Yes," I replied, "but he didn't last night." "But he's been doing it, right?" he responded, as though the idea that the baby is *capable* of sleeping through the night trumps what the baby is actually doing.

I guess my point is that sometimes the parent who is not getting up doesn't realize how bad it is for the parent who is getting up. My husband has never gotten up b/c as the breast-feeder in the family he feels it is MY job. Our deal is that on the weekends, he gets up with the baby so I can sleep in. That includes a bottle of formula sometimes so I can sleep even longer. Sure, an extra few hours two mornings a weekend doesn't make up for all the sleep I often lose during the week (oh, and I work full time out of the house just like he does... and I do the bulk of the care of #1 and #2!)... but it's better than nothing. And while I don't think hubby entirely gets it... I think he does try to get it (most of the time).

Hang in there... surely we'll sleep when they go to college... right?

[Moxie]

Too Fed Up, can you just leave and go sleep someplace else entirely? Sometimes babies will freak out if someone else goes to them because they know mom is still in the building, so if they just yell loud enough and long enough they know they'll get her. But if they know she's not there, they allow themselves to be comforted by someone else.

I'm glad your husband is willing to help! Good for him. Can he help you find an undisclosed location to go sleep in for the next 4-5 nights while he takes night duty? I bet US$100 (not worth much, I know) that it'll go better for both of them than you think.

[Amy]

Okay, now that I've read Too Fed Up's update above, I want to add one more thing...

I was a SAHM for #1 and #2 and did all the night duty due to breastfeeding just like you (and as I said above, I do it all for #3 due to the boobs as well, but now that I'm not a SAHM the sleep deprivation isn't coupled with being at home all day... a special brand of crazy cocktail the two of those make). Neither of my first two babies would take bottles either... so really, there was no choice but for me to be the one to go to them. I highly recommend finding something that stretches your baby's nighttime sleep. I can't advocate one solution as different things worked for all three of my kids... but start exploring your options and trying some things. Sometimes just knowing you are working on the problem will help you start to feel better. And be patient... it took a long time to find something that worked for my boys, but my daughter turned the corner in the matter of a day or two. You just never know... and please don't feel ashamed. I don't know about you, but none of my kids came with manuals and I just wing it most days. So far I've managed to keep them alive for the past eight years(#1 will be 8 on Saturday!) with only 2 trips to the ER, one broken bone, and very few "You are the worst mommy ever" (though I do get a lot of "You're a mean mommy" from the older two when I'm layin' down the law!).

[cat19]

I too have a husband who commutes, and I couldn't face him getting too little sleep and then driving. I figured him getting in a car accident would do none of us any good. However, I was not safe to care for our kid that sleep-deprived either.

We did a few things that helped: one, I gave in and coslept, which changed my whole life. It isn't for everyone, and I was sure it wasn't for me, until I experienced sleep deprivation.

Babies who cosleep wake you far more minimally by rooting for the nipple during your LIGHT sleep, not by screaming down the hall or over the monitor in the midst of your deep sleep. During deep sleep, if you wake me, I am crazed. I called my son a sh*thead and began sobbing when he woke me at a month old the zillionth time needing to nurse. Cosleeping helped me to get better sleep, and even though my son still nursed often at night, I wasn't nearly as tired.

Nap whenever the kid naps WITH the kid, in the same bed... even if you don't cosleep at night. Kid may well resettle more and sleep longer if you're warm and comfy next to him/her.

On both those recs, make sure you have a safe bed for cosleeping: no pillowtop, no covers on baby at all or above your waist (bundle up), no pillow near baby's head. If I recall correctly, askdrsears.com I think has other cosleeping safety recommendations. Don't medicate or drink and cosleep.

Working people mostly get weekends and can take the child for eight daytime hours at a stretch even if it's hard. Have him take the kid to a friend's or to the grocery store or just drive the kid around. If you can't do that, try YOU going to a friend's or a motel and sleeping where you can't hear the kid. For me, if we're in the same place, I can't unwind enough.

Do the timeshifted nights thing others have recommended. (6pm-12 for one of you, 12pm to 6am for the other, something like that.)

Burn up husband's vacation and personal time if he has it. Seriously. This is WORTH IT. Have him take a half day for personal reasons or call in sick. If you are sick/worn out, then someone needs to step in; he's first in line, unless you are near friends or relatives or can find an amenable mom to trade with.

Have your husband help you brainstorm caring things he can do that aren't sleep... making you a nice snack or lunch in the fridge, getting you prenatal vitamins (you're still in need of them for months) and making sure you take them with lovely fresh fruit at night, giving you a backrub when the baby dozes off, getting you a cheesy DVD, washing your comfy clothes, and so on.

Invest in a pack and play and/or exersaucer and/or whatever other thing works to occupy and contain baby while you doze or graze or whatever you need to do. Baby Einstein DVDs have no educational value, but they will not hurt your child, and having a more-rested mom who has had a break is worth an enormous amount of flex on whatever your TV principles are. (Just read a fabulous new book that looks into safety of TV--I'll post title later).

Devise easy-to-fix soothing food: for me, it's big tubs of vanilla soy yogurt mixed with frozen blueberries, and my favorite dried cereal with rice milk, and bananas. Husband can help you with this.

Also: lots of water or water and lemon. Dehydration makes it all worse; it gave me (while BFing) that lowgrade buzzy headache fuzz that made me so much more cranky.

It is awful; you're NOT selfish; you deserve and need help. Raising a small one is NOT a one-person job. Your husband and community need to help too.

[Cassie]

Are you completely opposed to experimenting with sleep training a la Ferber? I know many on this board are. I was too, and almost had to check myself into a hospital after 9 months of waking every 1 - 2 hours to nurse. But when my son began showing signs of intense sleep deprivation himself, I really began to question whether I was doing any of us any good by nursing him back to sleep. I had already tried co-sleeping, all the tips from the No Cry Sleep Solution book and nothing had made it any better (if anything, he woke even more frequently when we co-slept). So we finally let him cry at bedtime. It was the hardest thing I ever did and I'm sure I cried almost as much as he did that first night, but within a few days he not only began sleeping 8 hours straight (from about 7pm to 3am), but seemed to prefer being rocked back to sleep at 3am, which my husband can (and does!) do. And he still loves the boob as much as ever during the day, so the sleep training didn't "scare" him off nursing (maybe an irrational fear of mine, but I had it).

I still hate that we let him cry, and think everyone should absolutely avoid it if possible, but if you're in a situation where you're on the brink of physical collapse, it may be the best option for all involved. It won't be the last tough decision you'll have to make as a parent, and whatever anger & unhappiness your baby feels when crying will be quickly overcome by the increased affection and attention she'll get from a well-rested mommy during the day.