Preschool Redux

Wow--the preschool post struck a nerve.

First off, when I say "preschool" I mean a program that's part-day from one to five days a week, and is not meant to cover childcare while parents are working. Daycare is a longer-day program and is meant to care for your child while you're working. People with kids in full-time daycare don't send their kids to preschool, because the kids are probably getting the same stuff at daycare, and also the logistics wouldn't work out.

So to some degree the preschool issue is a problem of a certain socio-economic class, except that things are kind of mixed up in some areas. For instance, in the part of NYC that I live in, you can find a good full-time babysitter in two weeks, but the good daycares have waiting lists of 6 months or more. And if you have more than one child, a full-time babysitter is definitely cheaper than full-time daycare for two. So having a "nanny" doesn't mean you have more money than people with kids in daycare.

And I know women who can't work at all, even if they'd like to, because what they'd get paid wouldn't cover their childcare and commuting costs. If working from home isn't an option (and if you're full-time from home, you still need childcare), sometimes you're too poor to work.

So it's entirely possible that staying home with your child and paying $250 a month for preschool a couple of days a week is the cheaper option, depending on where you live, preschool and childcare options in your area, and what your field pays you.

But on to the "real" question: Lots of people were asking why someone would send their child to preschool, or what preschool can do that playing at home with a parent can't.

I never went to preschool. I know plenty of happy, successful people who didn't go to preschool. So it's clear that a kid doesn't *need* to go to preschool to be happy and well-adjusted. I think we should get that out of the way right now.

But there are lots of reasons that people want to send their kids to preschool, and want to so badly that they struggle through whatever the process is in their area.

• It's fun for the kids. They love, love, love it. I know there are some preschools out there that are trying to teach kids things in a structured way, but most of the ones I hear about are trying to set up situations in which the play helps teach kids things, and they have fun all the time. (It's only in Kindergarten that they start forcing learning on the kids, thanks to NCLB.)
• Which means that you aren't having to come up with projects. Or your babysitter doesn't have to come up with projects.
• They have equipment you don't have. Do you have a water table in your living room? Slides? Extra-jumbo wooden blocks?  An endless supply of fingerpaints? If you do, please email me directions to your house, and we'll be there Saturday morning at 10 am.
• It's a break for you that your kid thinks is for him or her. (Although if you have younger children, the pick-up/drop-off routine can make any "break" aspect a washout.)
• It gives you a social structure. If you never had a playgroup when your child was younger, or if your playgroup is drifting apart, it's a chance to meet other parents who have something in common with you. Even if the only thing you have in common is that your kids are in the same class, that's a start. Built-in reason to make playdates, etc.
• Yada yada social skills yada. People go on about being with other kids (which I don't think is necessary at this age, and in fact would urge everyone to read Gordon Neufeld's Hold On To Your Kids about how we push kids to rely on peers too early) and learning social skills. Whatever. I think a kid who's raised with love and care, even if that child only ever sees one other human being, can pick up the social skills. But it can be great for parents because
• It helps you see where your kid lies in relation to other kids his age. Which helps reinforce your spidey sense/mama gut/whatever you want to call it. What a relief to know your kid's not the only one! Or, how good to see that maybe you do need to ask about that thing she does.
• Objective adults who see your child regularly who can help you troubleshoot. The preschool teachers have seen a ton of kids. They know a lot about kids this age. They can talk to you about yours, and help give you tips about how to deal with things that come up. There's a lot of social stuff with kids, especially around age 4, and the teachers can help deal with that.
• Routines. Kids this age love routines. And you might be very surprised to learn that the child who won't pick up for love or money at home is the best cleaner-upper in the class at school.

Anyone else have anything  I didn't cover? I'm not trying to talk anyone into putting a kid in preschool. I'm just explaining what I see as the benefits. All examples and counterarguments welcome.

Comments

[Kelly]

Thank you for saying all of this. I'm a SAHM and because of our area and prices here we can't afford to have me work and send our boys to day-care. We can't afford to send them to preschool either since we only have one car and we're in a rural environment. There's no playgroups (trust me, I've looked and looked) and no playgrounds (it's all housing developments who have those and we don't live in one). I worry so much about my kids missing out and not being exposed to enough social interaction and new environments. I also know that we don't have any choice about it right now.
It helps, so very much, to hear someone who's more "in the know" say that we're not ruining our kids or debilitating them for future relationships. We're doing our best, and maybe (hopefully) that's enough.

[Amy]

Okay, so we call that "Mother's Day Out" (or some places call it "Child's Day In") down here in Houston. Most of the places that have part-time care like this are religious institutions and the little programs are great (and the extent to which they focus on religion in the curriculum vary). Some places have waiting lists, but for the most part I'd say people who want to send their children to one of these programs find one that suits them. There are non-religious institutions that do part-time preschool (Montessori, for example), but from what I've seen, those part-time kids are placed with the full-time kids so it's not like they are attending a special preschool program apart from the kids who are attending "daycare".

We've participated in all types of programs as our needs changed. I sent #1 to Mother's Day Out when he was 2.5 to get a break from him as #2 had just arrived. Then #1 and #2 went to full-time Montessori when I went back to work (that particular school did not do part-time so all the kids were there full time). When #1 went to Kindergarten, I moved #2 to a Montessori that had both full and part-time together. Now #3 is in a similar Montessori program.

In terms of difficulty in Houston... I think it's much more difficult to get kids into a great full-time program than it is to get them into one of the Mother's Day Out programs. But then it's been several years since I needed a part-time deal.

[Jen (yup, another one)]

Sadly, it's not true that kids are free of forced academics until K, at least around here. There is A LOT of pressure on public pre-Ks and Head Starts to be fairly academic (with STANDARDIZED TESTING in Head Start!!!!), and some of the private pre-schools and daycares are stepping up the academics for a variety of reasons. Some parents push for it because they think it's good, sometimes the schools (public or private) into which they feed pressure them to get the kids "ready" and sometimes they just think it's the right thing to do. For the most part they aren't forcing them to sit at tables and do worksheets (but it happens, believe me) and do most of the academics through games and play, but there's more emphasis on learning (as in ultimately preparing for The Test) than I can stomach.

This is a huge factor in why I want my daughter to go to a private, part-time community preschool, because they still really do emphasize play for play's sake. But there are many parents who feel the same way so there is absurdly fierce competition for the few spots.

[rudyinparis]

Yeah, Moxie, great breakdown of the different components at play here. If I was a SAHM I'd want my girls to go to preschool no matter the quality of their time with me (and all that time would be JOYOUS and filled with AMAZING ENRICHING ACTIVITIES and you'd have to peel them off me, they'd be showering me with kisses and gratitude so overwhelmingly)--I'd want them to go just so they could experience something new, and something fun. I'm sure there are parents out there that get all wound up about it, a la the whole "But how will my kid get into Harvard" thing, but I think most parents just genuinely want new experiences for their kids and want them to be challenged, and understand that no matter how Absolutely Perfect they are as parents that their kid could benefit from a little preschool.

I predict a fun conversation awaits.

[Joy]

The biggest draw for us (I run a family child care in my home and so my kids have always been home with me, but have also had to learn all the lessons that come with having others around all the time i.e. sharing, getting along, etc.) was that it gave my kids, who tend to be on the shy side, a little taste of what life would be like in a classroom setting before having to jump in head first at kindergarten. It got them out from under Mother's Skirts, so to speak, in a friendly, nurturing way, and so they had plenty of time to adjust to a more structured atmosphere. Not thrown in to a class with 20 kids, freaking out because they'd never been away from Mama for more than 2 hours before.
It served that purpose very well, they were so excited for Kindergarten that their heads almost burst, and I'm glad we sent them.

[Sara]

I think it comes down to do what is right for your family and your child. I pesonally don't think a child needs preschool, but if you can afford great. I send my daughter to preschool three days/week (half day). She loves playing with other children. We've know for awhile that she is extroverted. I'm happy because she is so happy there. It brings her alot of joy to play with her friends. The curriculum I feel is too focused on worksheets, but I make up for that at home by doing open ended projects with my kids.

[pnuts mama]

thanks for that, moxie, i will admit that whole convo from the other day had me a little freaked out. esp. since we live in nyc, but queens, so maybe it's not so crazy here? i know we have tons of churches that do nursery schools, and when i was little i went to a nursery that was run by the nyc parks dept! it was awesome and right near my house, they also ran a summer daycamp that i went to for years, too.

i've also heard that some schools in nyc have free pre-k programs, based on where you live, and that there has been a push to get all public schools to have pre-k available for all nyc 4 year olds. can you believe the "curriculum" for kindergarteners now? i can specifically remember letters/reading being taught in first grade (i knew already at that age, but most kids didn't) and K was 1/2 day and mostly play. wow. what are we doing to our little ones?

i've barely entertained more than thoughts about pre-school (is this what we called nursery school when i went?) for pnut. i SAH with her, and take her to two structured activities w/ other kids where she plays, and have started to think she could benefit from maybe two mornings a week at a nursery school type setting, for most of the reasons you mentioned- i know she'll love it, and i know they'll have things that i don't/can't/won't be able to do with her. but there is a part of me that likes to have her with me for just a bit longer, too.

[Slim]

I read this post, then trotted off to do something before answering, and I passed someone saying, "Actually, there's a Montessori preschool across the street from us, and it's free because it's through the county, but admission is by lottery and we didn't get in." There is no escape from the topic!

Anyway, when I was little, I was shy. My parents sent me to preschool (a few hours in the morning in the basement of our church), and I did not like it. I did not want to socialize, and given that my K teacher wanted to know why I didn't play with the other kids, I don't know that it helped me much. But I am the youngest of four, and I am sure my mother needed the time off. Plus I got to paint at an easel, so that part of preschool was good.

I have been pretty surprised by how many seemingly laid-back, rational moms I know like the academic parts of preschool. I mean, as long as my kid is enjoying it, it's fine with me, and most of the day is spent scooping and building and whatever else, but really, aside from being read to a lot, I don't think my kid needs any sort of academic element in his preschool experience. Sharing, taking turns, resolving conflict on their own -- that's what I think kids need (and I don't think they need preschool for that, although I do think most kidswhoaren'tme like the time with their new friends and the new stuff).

[BrooklynGirl]

I'm one of those SAHMs that can't afford to work. My salary as a new public school teacher doesn't cover the cost of childcare for my two kids, which is crazy, but there you have it.

I do send my son to a "play school" for 15 hours a week. I wanted him to have some time to play and socialize away from the constraints of his new sister and, to be honest, I needed the break.

There is no academic component to his "school," which is exactly how I feel it should be.

I'm hoping to send him to public pre-K in the fall of 2009, but my zoned program is very oversubscribed, and it's not clear to me how/whether the new centralized system will change that.

[meggiemoo]

"People with kids in full-time daycare don't send their kids to preschool, because the kids are probably getting the same stuff at daycare, and also the logistics wouldn't work out."

HOORAY! An explanation of preschool that I can understand. Thanks Moxie! If I were a SAHM (and probably will be after kid #2), I would probably be enmeshed in the preschool madness.

[Jill in Atlanta]

Ok, I'll be the first to say it: I put my kids in a MMO starting at 18 months (two days, 3 hrs a day) because I *needed* to have them away from me for a bit of alone time. I'm even a former preschool teacher; I truly love being with little kids. But the reality of being a parent is... they don't go home at the end of the day. And, for my sanity, I needed to send them off to preschool.

Do I feel any guilt? Of course. That's what motherhood is all about: second guessing yourself. When my first son was about to enter kindergarten everyone expected him to be excited. But really, it was his fifth year of school. FIFTH! And I knew I wanted him to go to college, with many in my family having post graduate degrees I can picture the poor kid in school for up to 25 years! Egads! What have I done?! But I'd do it again (and I did) in a heartbeat. I need some time alone.

[Maureen]

Thanks so much for this post, Moxie... You do such an awesome job of taking comments from other posts and summarizing them and channeling the discussion further.

I have to be honest and admit that I am one of those moms that is sooo scared that my child is going to be "behind" when they start K because I am sort of fighting the whole academics concept at their current age (3). We've avoided "educational" TV, flash cards, etc. but we do read a ton so I am hoping that well offset some. The thing that worries me is we had an educational panel at one of my twins club meetings and they discussed how today's K is more in line with how 1st grade used to be and Preschool is now the old K. It all seems so rushed.

I know my boys would LOVE preschool just to have more activities and meet more kids. That said, we will still stall on the whole thing hopefully for another year.

[m]

Thanks so much for this follow-up post. After I read the first one, and then Melba's comments about how hard it is to get into one here (we're both in Edmonton), I started freaking out. We don't have a car and the only 'good' preschools I've heard about are on the other side of the city and blah blah blah. I still think that we should look into more options, but this post has calmed me down a bit. (For now!)

[mamasutra]

I "ran away from home" when I was 3, in search of this "school" that I'd heard about. My neighbour had started going to kindergarten and I wanted to go to. Preschool was a free community program with only a handful of kids (very small town), so my mom was able to get me in, mid-year, with no problem, as far as I know. Now I am SAHM with a 3.5 yo and a 2 yo, and I have to decide if elder sister will be going to preschool in the fall. If I were working, she'd have to be in day care (more likely a private day home here, with limited academic curriculum), and it would be highly unlikely that the care provider would be able to shuttle her to any outside program.

[Charisse]

Um, Moxie, your distinction between daycare and preschool doesn't hold here in SF. There are any number of full day preschools, and they're different in focus and structure from the daycares that offer some preschool curriculum. Some preschools offer both half and full; others offer only half...but just because something is fulltime doesn't mean it can't be preschool!

Soapbox off. :)

[Sheryl]

I'm grateful my parents sent me to preschool for two years before kindergarten. I remember the experiene very clearly, and I really did learn a lot, although most of it was not academic (in 3 yr preK, the teacher tried to talk my parents into putting me in kindergarten that year because I was already beyond their 4 yr curriculum. My parents did not do that, and I'm glad).

And say what you will about preschool teaching social skills, but that was the biggest thing I gained from it. I was an only child, and none of the kids in my neighborhood (defined as a 1 block radius around my house) were my age (and that young, two years difference matters). I had no cousins anywhere near my age either. I had no problem being around adults and older or younger kids, but I had no idea how to act when faced with kids my own age. Just learning how normal kids communicate was a big help. No, I didn't get over my shyness (and in some ways I think the whole school experience contributed greatly to me being as itroverted as I am - I'm an off-the-scale I in Myers-Briggs terms), but I learned enough to survive to adulthood relatively unscathed.

But what I never did learn in preschool was how to color inside the lines (it took a weeks worth of recess detentions with a nun in first grade to learn that) or how to use scissors properly (still working on that one!).

[Moxie]

Charisse, I'm so confused....So what's the difference between daycare and preschool in the SF area? Are there really preschools that run 8-6:30 M-F?

[songbird]

I had an opposite experience - I wanted to learn how to relate to other people my age, but they were just so strange, and I just never got the hang of it, basically until adulthood when they were, well, not kids anymore. I therefore hated preschool, elementary school, middle school, and early high school. Things got better by the end of high school. I'm also off the charts introverted.

[Linda]

Yup. I put my kids in preschool so they would have some new fun stuff to do and I would get a break. They go about 5 hours a week at 3 years old and will go about 9 hours a week next year at 4. I think it's a nice transition instead of going from no school to the 5 days a week school of kindergarten, but it's not necessary.

Also, I want them to associate school/learning with FUN. Their preschool spends 80% of their time in free play and the rest of the time in song/snack/structured activity time. My kids say things like, "I love school!" It makes me happy.

[MrsHaley]

Moxie, ITA with all your sentiments about the benefits of preschool, and I'm relieved and encouraged by the commenters' moderate attitudes about it, too. It has its place, but it's not required -- it's another tool that can be used successfully and benefically, but isn't do-or-die necessary for every child, by any stretch. Kind of like a breast pump.

[Julie]

I think there is a third category of preschool/daycare hybrid that covers the full-day schedule for working parents. The "preschool" portion usually goes from about 9-12, then lunch and nap and in the afternoon are enrichment activities that are provided but optional. Kids can learn how to play basketball and other sports....(my favorite story of my friend A's son who learned one day about wrestling. She asked him "So what is wrestling?" and he said "Basically you hug your friend and then you both fall down." ) or art, or reading books, etc. etc. but all of that can be optional. Technically it's a full-day program with an optional early pick up. The ask that kids are consistent in attending the 9-12 portion of the day 5 days a week because they have community meetings and kids work on ongoing projects etc. but you pay the same amount whether you pick up at noon or at 5:30....whether you go 3 days or 5. If you were to ask the teachers, it's not "daycare" since they follow a set curriculum and a specific learning philosophy (as do some daycare providers I know) but it's a full day program as opposed to the morning programs that most preschools have.

I have many opinions about school readiness and students I've had who have/have not attended preschool and evidence that is apparent as late as 4th and 5th grade.....but I won't share them here since they are based on my own experiences rather than any concrete research. (Though there is a lot of research out there supporting both sides.) Mostly I think preschool is important for kids to learn the following: How to sit in the circle and listen to a story when it's time, share the black crayon when there is only one, not throw sand and push their friends out of the sandbox......with a slight bend toward academics ONLY if kids are interested. I also don't think preschool is the only place kids can learn these skills. But they are important skills for kids to have before entering the now academic world of kindergarten (in many areas *full day* kindergarten), and without them *some* kids are playing a difficult game of catch-up. But again, as long as the skills are taught it's not the forum in which the learning occurs that is importnat, but rather the skills that are learned.

[Cloud]

Jill in Atlanta- I laughed out loud at your comment about second guessing yourself being what motherhood is all about! It is very true in my case. I'm working on that, though, because in my saner moments I really do believe that there are many ways to raise a happy, smart, well-adjusted child, and that you just need to figure out which way works best for your family. There are advantages and disadvantages to each decision, and I'm trying to learn to just make peace with the trade offs I decide to make.

I have a long way to go with that, but I am happy to report that I have at least stopped feeling guilty about day care... on most days. Pumpkin LOVES her day care center. I love my job. And I love the time I spend with her when I'm not working, so really, we're all happy. Except when she picks up the umpteenth bug of the month at day care. Then the guilt creeps back in....

Thanks for the preschool posts, Moxie. It is nice to know that because I already suffered through the day care choice/guilt I will get somewhat of a free pass on the preschool choice/guilt!

[Julie]

Just read Maureens comment about how K is the new 1st grade and preschool is the new K.....sadly that is true here in CA and in the US thanks to NCLB. However there are lots of different choices for preschools out there if you are worried about the academics being too important. And as an educator, I don't at ALL think you are depriving your kids of the opportunity of going to Stanford on a full academic scholarship simply because you do not do flashcards or other academic-bent activities with them (and reading to them is not considered academic unless you are asking THEM to read YOU the book). The "work" of preschool-aged kids is exploratory play, NOT concrete academics. Letting your child explore a kitchen cupboard, do some imaginary play involving his little people garage and an invisible kitty cat are MUCH more beneficial to your child's intellectual development than flashing picture or word or number cards. Yes, there are some kids who can do this and seem to be able to do this, their brains are little sponges and really can pick up the most amazing things.....but you are not giving your child any advantage that will edge him/her over peers once formal schooling begins. Reading to your child is extremely important, but it has more to do with language aquisition, being exposed to text/print/how books work, and visualisation skills *not* reading skills such as decoding. Rest easy, my friend.

And sorry if I sounded like I was on a soapbox. I don't want to offend the flashcard set. But really, I've had many brilliant students over the years and flashcards were very rarely part of their early development.

[paola]

It sounds like what we have in Italy is somewhere between pre-school and kinder. Kids start at 3 and stay on until 5. They are all in together which is something I didn't like at first but Noah loves having the big kids help him go to the toilet, help him use a fork better etc, and so do I. There isn't much of an academic focus until the third year ( 5 year olds), where they even do an hour of English a week.

[paola]

Strangley, in the first year of primary here they do the second part of the alphabet (K to Z). So kids who don't go to 'materna' (pre/kinder) only get half an alphabet!!!

[paola]

Upps!! I mean 'Strangely'

[Charisse]

@Moxie, yep there are. Mouse's is perhaps inbetween--it's open 7:30-6, M-F; the official preschool part runs 9-3, kind of like Julie said but longer. Not all kids come before 9 or stay after 3 (most do one or the other via parent switching or something) but all go 5 days. After 3, kids can nap if they like, play outside, and do various montessori stuff. But there are other schools where the philosophy is that formal activities should run throughout the day and they do. Music teacher comes at 5pm, etc.

So, differences:
-the hours are more formal--unlike a daycare you're expected not to pick up during the actual program unless there's some kind of emergency.
-preschools also generally take a narrower age range, like 2.9 to kinder-start, whereas daycares either start at infant or 2 years. (And come to think of it I think the licensing is different.)
-the preschools focus more time around whatever activities go with their educational philosophy, and they usually have a specific one (reggio emilia, montessori, and waldorf probably being the most common).

There are definitely daycares here with great preschool programs (Mouse's toddler daycare was run by an organization that also ran all-day preschools at other locations and some organizations have them in the same place)--but they usually call that part preschool. Maybe it's just local semantics, I don't know.

[Katie B.]

Hrmm. After reading Moxie's great clarifications and then people's comments so far, I'm still glad I'm planning to homeschool, Waldorf style, even, which has kids learning things like reading much later, because they're learning other things first. I can see how a program of a few hours a week could be reeeeeeelly nice to give Mom a chance to have some time for herself; too bad I'm not going to be able to afford one (we live on a single teacher's salary, and I'm one of those who won't be able to afford to work any time soon). For socialization stuffs, there's a pretty thriving homeschool population in my area that get together for playdates and other activities frequently; I don't see them falling apart by the time my munchkin is old enough to join.

[sue]

I chose to send my daughter to preschool at age three so that I could have some alone time with the new baby. I felt like she had had my undivided attention for the first 2.5 years, I should give him some, too. Of course, we mostly mostly spend that time napping together, but whatever. :-)

The preschool we chose is religious, which explains the super-low cost ($220/month for 5 day 9am-12pm program). There are, of course, pros and cons to that. The preschool religion is not the same as ours - actually, I'm agnostic/lapsed catholic, and my husband is a physicist who was raised by hippies - and they are lutheran. Sometimes things are a little jarring to me - she comes home learning all these traditions that are sort of the bizarro-world version of what I learned as a child. But mostly, it's good. I think I have a little zealot, though. Even her super-religious teacher thinks she's a little off the charts :-)

As far as academics go, they learn to write their names, and have a letter of the week - they practice tracing that letter once or twice during the week as part of a craft. That's as far as they go, which I'm very happy about - I have a friend whose child is in a Monessori program, and they spend 2-3 hours a day (out of 6) sitting at a desk learning. AT AGE THREE! She has the rest of her life to sit at a desk, now is the time to run around. Besides, my daughter wants to spend all afternoon working on writing worksheets with me. That's more than enough...

The other reason we wanted to send her to preschool is because she's a bit of a bully-magnet. She's very bright and kind, but doesn't always understand social stuff - and it's very easy to make her cry. We've had a couple of issues in preschool, and it's been good to have her work them out with my and the teacher's help (and the other parents) in a supportive environment, before sending her into the big bad world of elementary school. It's taught her to have a slightly thicker skin and to always come to us when she's in need of help - and actually, things have worked out so well that the former bully and my daughter play together fairly well now.

My current favorite 3yo quote is

mommy: "Good Lord, you kids are driving me crazy!"
3yo: "no, mama, Jesus Christ is our Lord"

:-)

[Cybele]

These posts remind me of how weird life in NYC really is...I also live in new york, probably not far from Moxie, and I'm dreading the start of the Preschool Process next year, when my son will be all of eighteen months old. I think daycare/preschool is great for kids for all the reasons Moxie mentions. However I have tried to get the 'lil one into a good daycare in my area to no avail. So I have a "nanny," which yes, sounds so posh, but it isn't really a choice. Moreover, I am not sure we will be able to afford both preschool AND a nanny, so if we can't land a daycare spot in the next year or so he may have to do without...which is ok too.

[Julie]

Hahaha Sue.....my nephew's famous quote:

My sister: I'm sorry I yelled boys...I'm just running a little short on patience right now.

My nephew: Maybe you should ask Jesus to help you with that.

They are not super religious by any means, but he does attend preschool for about 6 hours a week at a church.

[Merry]

I sent my son to preschool starting at 3, mostly because I wanted him to have a broader experience and perspective than what I could provide at home. My only hope was that he would have fun, perhaps make friends, perhaps be exposed perhaps to things I couldn't imagine myself. He was sent two 1/2 days a week when he was 3 and two full days when he was 4. Often, he would do something in preschool that I didn't think he would be able to do e.g., brush his own teeth or fix a simple snack; they sort of "scooted" him forward in some things that I didn't imagine were possible for him, but turned out completely fine. So, having him in preschool was really like having a fresh perspective. I needed the broadening as much as he did, really. The teachers were happy to answer questions so I understood what was going on in the classroom. It is a Montessori school, so the kinds of things he is learning are up to him and his own interests and curiosities. He brings home ideas we play with at home. He's my only child; I felt there is so much I don't know. His going to preschool helped us both. But its such an individual choice.

[hedra]

@Sue, that doesn't sound like an accredited Montessori program, to me. Unfortunately, Montessori is not a trademarked name, ANYONE can use it. They don't even have to use a single bit of Montessori to call themselves that. Kinda scary. Plus, there's European Montessori (somewhat more linear format and expectations, more prone IMHO to rigidity and lack of imagination, but also less prone to pressuring kids to advance when they're not ready), and American Montessori (much more willing to let kids make mistakes, play imagination games that are not related at all to reality, and also more likely to gently encourage a child to get into an area they otherwise avoid). I'm personally a fan of American Montessori, but I'm also an American. At 3, in our Montessori school (accredited), they have tables for doing work on when tables are needed, but they're self-directed about it. Right now, M is spending her days showing two new younger students (another set of twins) how to use the various works, how to get out a tray and put things away, etc. She may spend hours on any given day washing the windows, or working on pouring skills, or doing art. They have a few set times for certain things that need group cooperation to complete - like recess - but the rest is very flowing. Does NOT sound like what your friend's child is doing. At all.

1: Structure/hours of preschool. Around here is more like SF. Nearly every preschool has before and after program care. Our preschool options go like this:
7:30-8:30 optional before-care.
8:30-11:30 half-day preschool (M-W or M-F)
11:30-2:30 second half of day for full-day students (big chunk of nap in there included, a lot of mellow time, but still have the 'work' available)
2:30-4:30 after-program care, with enrichment/activities - computer class, soccer, etc.
4:30-5:30 extended aftercare.

Most of the programs I know offer something like that. However, I have a friend who is a curriculum director for a NYC preschool, and boy howdy is it different! They're going to full-day program for working parents, but they're REMOVING the part-day option, the part-week option, etc., and ONLY having full-day. Um. My friend is looking for a different job, because she doesn't think full-day is appropriate for every child, and that means they're going to be either shoe-horning kids into a program that doesn't suit them, or excluding kids from the program needlessly. And there will be no option to say 'hey, your child really would thrive better with a half-day and home with nanny the other half' (or whatever), we'd like to move him to the other program, to meet his needs better. As sane as having various options even within one program sounds to me, it appears to be a foriegn concept in NYC, at least in some areas. It's NOT that hard to manage, really.

2: The 'do they need it' thing... If kids can switch from homeschooling to public/private school in any grade, and thrive, why be worried about Pre-K at home to K at school? It might be easier to just think of it as homeschooling preschool. It doesn't require a rigid curriculum or extraordinary skills (though I have huge respect for those who do it, I think it does a disservice to all parents to say that it can't be done by 'normal/average/regular people' - it CAN). Group learning experience can be had in swim lessons, group socialization at church daycare or smaller outings, etc. There are many many paths to 'kindergarten readiness', and they do not at all have to go through Preschool to get there.

3) You know your child, you are the best parent for your child. BUT, as we often find, the fine-tuning thing makes us self-doubt, double-check, etc. It is easy to get overwhelmed by the masses of voices out there all screaming in paranoid panic. Instead, check in with someone who knows your child, AND has some expertise. Or who just has some expertise - but don't just say 'is preschool really required?' but 'how can I help my child be ready for K, even if we can't find/don't want/can't afford preschool?'

Or, do some reading. If preschool isn't an option, but there's the fear of the NCLB-induced acedemia thing, pick up some books like Mommy Teach Me/Mommy Teach Me to Read (Montessori in the home, basically, without having to take training), or "What your (whatever)-grader Should Know" (Core Knowlege curriculum, lots of fun stuff), or check in on some homeschooling websites (check your state education bureau for resource lists), homeschooling/unschooling message boards or blogs, etc. Most of what they need to know is simple things that can be incorporated into everyday life, once you have a few ideas about how to do it.

BTW, my mom did flashcards (along with a bazillion other things), and I loved them. But I'm weird. Or maybe I loved them *because* my mom loved them - engagement was the passion behind it all. If it lights you up, it should work out okay. If it doesn't excite you, find another way! Being engaged in the learning is, to me, the heart of Preschool.

***

Separate note: as much as I am NOT a fan of NCLB, some of the changes in expectations for age of acquisition of skills have to do with improved understanding of how we learn and therefore improved methods with different results - so we're not working at cross-purposes to the brain quite so much. Granted, there are programs that apply the old methods to the new expectations and end up stressing everyone out. But following some of the natural flow of learning, experience-based, concrete, and exploratory, kids *do* tend to learn the concepts and functions earlier than they do if we sit them down and lecture and do worksheets all day. (Sigh, I loved worksheets, too. Yeah, I was definitely a weird child.) NCLB isn't to blame for changing the understanding of at what age a child CAN do some of these things, but instead, for mandating that they MUST, regardless of how they are taught or where they naturally fall on what is definitely a large range of normal at that age. JMHO.

[pnuts mama]

ooooh, i think linda makes a great point that pre-school is at least a good way to get a little kid used to the idea of being in a "school" environment before the shock of FULL DAY KINDERGARTEN wallops them on the head like a ton of bricks. sigh. i think a few mornings a week at age 3 and maybe every morning at age 4 would probably make sense for that.

i hope the lutherans up the street are as cheap as some of the prices listed here!! the montessori programs i looked into were off the charts outrageous- poor maria montessori is probably spinning in her grave wondering where her whole philosophy on education went off track.

[sue]

@ Julie - hahahahahahaha! That's awesome! I could certainly use some of that help, too. :-)

@moxie - we do actually have a large slide in our living room. My dad made it for me when I turned 1 and we rehabbed it for my daughter when she turned one. Our house is small, so it's right between the kitchen table and the couch. It's actually pretty tall and steep for a 1yo, but my daughter and I were both daredevils. My son is petrifed of it. Come on over any time your upstate! Especially 10 am on Saturday - that's when I'm at Stitch 'n bitch - dh can deal with y'all! :-)

[hedra]

@pnuts mama, yeah, Maria is probably spinning. Our Montessori program is still pricey, but not gastly for one child by any means. But this school was set up very specifically to address the needs of those without cash to burn, and it is still a bit ouchy. The owner wanted to be true to the ideal of allowing ALL children of all socio-economic backgrounds into the school. Other schools try to do the same by having large 'co-op' options/requirements (all janitorial work at one school is done by parents, for example), but that also doesn't work out for many working parents, and single working parents are extra-stuck.

Sigh.

[sue]

@hedra
you're right, it doesn't seem all that Montessori to me, either. There are other Montessori's in town that are much more in line with the core philosophy. The real reason we chose not to go Montessori is that I can't put my head around spending $600+ a month for preschool. If I had that much extra money lying around, I'd be putting it towards college, where it'll make a real difference.

And now we're off to find a laminated placemat for tracing letters and numbers. L is so determined to learn to write that I'm running through paper like you wouldn't believe by printing out writing worksheets.

And jeesh, I'd better get a life and stop commenting already!

[lolismum]

At our house, we call preschool "The virus and bad behaviour exchange program." Good grief, on any given day, there are at least 3 (out of 14) kids with snotty noses and someone having a meltdown. I work full time though, so I needed to park her little ass somewhere during the day. That said, my daughter likes it and we like it. And the instant social circle thing is really helpful, especially if you are new to the area and don't have any friends.

[pnuts mama]

well, i just spent a little time looking for universal pre-k options in nyc- all five boroughs- and here are some quick links for any of you who have mike bloomberg as your mayor:
http://schools.nyc.gov/Academics/EarlyChildhood/default.htm
http://schools.nyc.gov/Academics/EarlyChildhood/EligibilityApplications/default.htm

http://www.insideschools.org/st/ST_apply.php

basically, if your kid is turning four by the end of the year, they are eligible for universal pre-k, either at your local public school or at other facilities which offer it. i can't tell if it's free, i think it is *not* free, but i really don't know. sigh.

[Moxie]

Do they mention in those links that the "universal" pre-K in NYC, *if* your local school has it, are for only 2 hours a day, and there are usually only 36 slots per school? Sigh.

[charis]

We have our four year old daughter in a Montessori program. The reason we picked Montessori is that we love the philosophy. But the reason we are sending her to a Montessori preschool, instead of doing it at home, is that my daughter and I don't do so well on the teaching/guiding front. She gets very frustrated when she doesn't do something just right the first time. And I, wonderful mother that I am, get very frustrated that she gets frustrated (I'm fine that she doesn't do it right the first time, at least!) Our hope was that she would be able to learn some of that self-confidence in another environment. And so far, I would say it has worked out pretty well. Sure there are things about pre-school that aren't great. But over all, the mental health break for me, and the opportunity to try and succeed at tasks on her own has been great for us.

[Julieta]

Thanks Moxie for your post! My children, 3 1/2 and 20 months, are in a home daycare that also teaches a "Mother Goose" preschool program. I was so worried that I was supposed to send my daughter to a "real" preschool soon if not a year ago and was just asking my husband last night, "What if she is messed up some way? We can't go back!!"
After reading all of the posts and clarifying with my daycare provider that her program is prep enough, I feel better about keeping her in this home daycare that we really like. God, your site and its readers have allayed my fears more times than I can count!! Thank you!

[Julieta]

Thanks Moxie for your post! My children, 3 1/2 and 20 months, are in a home daycare that also teaches a "Mother Goose" preschool program. I was so worried that I was supposed to send my daughter to a "real" preschool soon if not a year ago and was just asking my husband last night, "What if she is messed up some way? We can't go back!!"
After reading all of the posts and clarifying with my daycare provider that her program is prep enough, I feel better about keeping her in this home daycare that we really like. God, your site and its readers have allayed my fears more times than I can count!! Thank you!

[Julieta]

Ooops, sorry for the double. I tried to stop it!

[pnuts mama]

moxie- the last link (not nyc.gov link) gives a little more info, and yes, does mention that most UPK is first-come, first served, and up to 80% of seats are saved for low-income/free-lunch eligible kids (imo, as it should be, b/c historically these kids are the ones who need preschool the most vs. someone like my kid who has an ABD mommy always looking for some damn learning experience for her- "what color is the circle?").

somewhere else i read that UPK classes here can't have more than 18 kids per class, and based on the size of the school, probably wouldn't have room for more than two or three classes (same amount of K classes in same school?) so that would lead to the 36 student limit.

what i'm still not sure of is do you pay for this or not? is it income-based? b/c they say if your school doesn't have it or is all filled up you can call 311 for a list of eligible UPK sites in your area (headstart, the Y, daycare centers, etc.) and you'd have to pay there? or is it subsidized?

i was under the impression that UPK was required by law- maybe that just means must be available? not necessarily free?

[Simone]

I just have to chime in on one of Moxie's points--that "objective adults who see your child regularly who can help you troubleshoot." My son (4.5) is currently in preschool through our school district, that's 2 days/week for 2 hours. Although he's been doing phenomenally in school, we've been having a lot of problems at home--sassyness (where did this sullen, moody 13 year-old come from?), jealousy over the baby, control issues, etc. Mind you, this was from a boy who has always been easygoing, agreeable, and empathetic. We had school conferences this past Monday, and my husband and I shared this with his teacher (who happened to also teach an early childhood class that I took with my son when he was 2). So she's got some history specifically with him, as well as her expertise as an early ed teacher. She suggested some responsive parenting techniques, as well as some strategies for deflecting/resolving conflict with him. We started right away on Tuesday, using her suggestions. It has completely changed the way my son and I interact, and EVERYONE is happier. I have found myself in tears a couple of times, overwhelmed with the shear joy of getting that connection back. Not to mention we're having more fun during the day, which spills over to my 11mo. And I am more relaxed...WAY more relaxed. In the grand scheme of the prechool discussion, this doesn't mean a whole lot, other that to punctuate the point that sometimes an objective eye (with some expertise) can help in ways that we parents, embroiled in the day-to-day, can't.

[Moxie]

On my side of Manhattan, I know our PS has UPK, with two 18-student sections. The PS right above us does not. The one right below us does not. The one right across from us has people who get in line at midnight the night before registration opens at 9 am to get a spot.

It's free, but not always available at every school.

[erin]

Our daughter just started preschool last week. She's a bit young in my opinion, but we have a hunch that with her personality, having a structured routine social group to look forward to seeing will help her tremendously when her baby sister arrives in two months. We hope we're right!

[Carmen]

@Julieta... thanks for mentioning the Mother Goose curriculum. I checked out the website http://mothergoosetime.com/index.php and it looks pretty neat. Just fun activities that promote learning but not too high pressure. I mentioned it to my daycare provider so she could check it out for her older kids (Buster is only 1).

There is such a big age range at my home daycare that I think this is a good idea for the older kids. My little guy learns a lot from them (good and bad) but they don't really have anyone older to "learn" from so this could help take the place of that kind of social interaction.

[Foster]

"They have equipment you don't have. Do you have a water table in your living room? Slides? Extra-jumbo wooden blocks? An endless supply of fingerpaints? If you do, please email me directions to your house, and we'll be there Saturday morning at 10 am."

I dont YET, but b/c I work at a daycare & know how to do it, you can sure believe that I WILL. I was actually going to ask my dad to make some of the larger structures for me (water table, woodworking table, etc), but.. Guess Ill just have to learn how to make them myself :) I am hoping to pretty much make my rather large living room look like my old infant/young toddler room at school, only w/out ALL. OF. THE. BRIGHTNESS. It's gonna be so rad XD