Guest post on Timeouts

Some of you may have noticed occasional comments from Sharon Silver, the Mommy Mentor. Sharon runs a parenting consultancy called ProActive Parenting that deals specifically with discipline of toddlers and preschoolers. Did your ears prick up yet? Mine did, because the toddler age is notoriously hard to discipline. Haim Ginott stuff works fabulously on 4-year-olds, 8-year-olds, 15-year-olds, 20-year-olds and your co-workers, but there isn't much in it that's concrete enough for a 16-month-old. The gap between baby and big kid is long, and I haven't found a lot of discipline techniques that aren't either punitive and focusing on control, or comforting but laissez faire.

So when I saw that Sharon concentrates specifically on that age group, I definitely wanted to look more at what she's doing. Her philosophy is that discipline is always better than punishment, and that parents need to be teaching their kids skills for living. She says, "Discipline expresses a parent's boundaries with the emotional volume turned down." She's been working on this age since her own boys (now adults) were that age, and has come up with some solid techniques.

She offered to write something for Ask Moxie, so I tossed her a reader question about timeouts. The question is from Rosemary:

"I’ve got a 20 month old boy who is telling me he’s “Big Boy Mummy, look!” as he trundles his way through life.  He is in child-care 5 days a week and he loves going there (literally runs out of the door in the morning) My husband and I having been having a long (like 6 month long) conversation on behaviour, discipline, limit setting, exploring etc and the techniques or policies that we want to use.  No brainer – smacking is out for us.  So, that leaves time out as the next most popular strategy but we have one problem.  It just feels so darn wrong to both of us.  We know enough as parents to trust our instincts, and normally that has worked for us. But, I’m starting to doubt my judgement on this as many people whose parenting styles I admire swear by time out.   I’m not sure it is the best fit for my son.  He feels things so deeply and he is attached to us like duct tape (which is just how I like it) and I know how scared he gets when he thinks he has lost us.  He is quite happy to roam around and explore as long as he knows where we (or his child carers) are.

Taking some quiet time to calm down, I understand.  But why does it have to be removed from everyone, sitting on the bottom step or in another room and staying for a certain number of minutes.  What is time-out supposed to be achieving?  No one has given me an explanation I can really understand yet.  All the explanations I’ve heard still seem to come back to one thing:  I’m more powerful than you, and I’m going to exercise that power to banish you from my presence. I understand that he needs us to be in charge and that I actually do have power  and need to exercise it in his own interests sometimes (and we actually run a tight ship around here).  And I guess, deep in my heart of hearts, I feel like taking him to another room and dumping him for some time until he’s got himself under control just feels like plain abandonment.  I can remember times as an adult when I’ve been out of control, and if my friend or husband had just walked away from me, I don’t think it would have helped me calm down much at all.

And here’s the big kicker.  What do I use if I don’t use time out?  We’ve had lots of success with him so far, just by really listening to him, actually teaching him to do things, using lots of modelling of positive behaviour, acknowledgement of his effort and when he manages to control himself, and trying to remove the big sources of frustration and power struggles.  We try and focus on the big things and let the small ones go through to the keeper.  But will that work as he gets older?

Here's Sharon's answer:

Your post raises some really important questions about timeout, and that’s great, even if other moms don’t like that you raised the issue. Your parental intuition told you that timeout wouldn’t work well for your child. Listening to your intuition is always a good thing, even if the only result is a deeper investigation into the topic. My post also includes a response to spanking as a form of discipline. You said you don’t spank, however there are others who do.

As a society we’ve learned a great deal about preschool behavior since the days when we were being raised.

We’ve learned that parents really are a child’s first teacher. We’ve learned, that just like adults, the way you speak to a child determines whether he fights with you or listens to you. We’ve learned that a child’s foundation, the core of who he is, is being built during early childhood. A child learns whether or not her emotions are accepted or punished. She learns whether self-control is managed for her, by spanking or consistent punishment or she learns, by how her parent deals with defiance, that ultimately, she needs to control herself.

Based on all that knowledge, plus the love parents have for their child, I wonder why anyone would spank in this day and age?

As your child’s first teacher what lesson do you hope to send your child when you spank, even if done lightly? Unfortunately by the time your child becomes a preschooler he will have learned that the way to get what you want from another person is to hit them. Is that what you intended to teach?

Timeout for little people has some issues as well, let me explain.

After 17 years of teaching parenting and 29 years of raising kids, in my opinion, timeout for preschoolers, no matter how long they sit, just doesn’t work well for little people and here’s why.

Timeout was designed as a time…out for both parent and child to take a short break so they can get calmer and then come back together to resolve the situation.

That’s not the way timeout is being used today. These days timeout is being used as the “acceptable” way we punish our children, and there’s a big difference between the two.

Parents usually begin using timeout around 18-20 months because normal developmental defiance has begun to appear. Every parent I’ve ever worked with started out with the best intentions for using timeout. The parent starts out being calm, gets down to eye level, says the right words, and is as loving as possible on the way to timeout. Then as the child approaches two or three the way a parent uses timeout begins to change.

The parent’s best intentions then squarely meet the child’s developmental stage and temperament and a collision happens that goes something like this.

The child refuses to listen or cooperate; he wants what he wants. Now’s the time to teach the child about his behavior, but the screaming the child does causes the parent’s brain to become confused. The confusion from the crying, screaming or constant demanding stops the parent’s ability to think clearly about what to do next. Not being able to decide what to do next makes the parent frustrated or angry, and can cause yelling to begin. The parent is unconsciously hoping that the yelling will be the magic key that when inserted into timeout will end this, sooner rather than later, so this can be done.

Unfortunately the yelling upsets the preschooler, possibly to the point of hysteria. I don’t know too many adults that enjoy being screamed at when they’re upset either! The crying causes the preschooler to revert back to a younger emotional place, just to survive the yelling.

You know that emotional place; it’s what’s going on when you say to your preschooler “why are you acting like a baby?” or “stop crying, you're acting like a baby!”

In order to survive the yelling, the preschooler shuts herself down and stops listening.

Ladies, you know this one well; we’ve been accusing men of this for years!

Because the child has difficulty processing her crying, your yelling and thinking at the same time, a preschooler is forced to gain more of the information about the situation from your body language and tone of voice than from your words. And since she’s young and still relies on immature reasoning, what has she learned? All that she has learned is when I cry or don’t do as I’m told, I’m sent away from you—to a place called timeout.

No real learning has occurred. The child has no idea what she’s supposed to do instead. The child was never allowed to try again so she could learn how to manage her emotions and resolve it in a better way next time.

Then the behavior happens again and she’s sent to timeout, again. Her behavior is stopped, for the moment, but she still hasn’t learned how to manage this so it doesn’t happen again, and this goes on day in and day out.

When you see it broken down this way you understand how young a preschooler really is, and you begin to wonder, does timeout work well for preschoolers, is there a better way?

The answer lies in this statement; sometimes the best way to get a child to do something is to speak their language.

I believe that preschoolers need corrections to be made at the preschool level. Don’t forget, your preschooler has only been on the planet for a few years. Even though he’s walking, talking, potty trained and maybe in preschool, he isn’t as old as he looks, especially when it comes to discipline and the ability to change behavior.

Why do I say this, because adults have the ability to use reason and logical thinking; preschoolers haven’t even developed the ability to use logic, and that doesn’t begin until around age 7.

Does that mean you can’t use timeout? No it doesn’t mean that at all. It just means that a better way to use timeout would be to match the concept with a preschooler’s developmental needs.

Just like our computers, I believe that it’s time for “timeout” to get an upgrade!

Here are three things I think need to be included in preschool timeouts.

1. The teaching a parent does needs to be done at the preschool level. An emotional child learns best when information is scaled down to just a few words and the words are something the child can understand even through the tears, words like sit down, no hitting, or use your words, versus that’s not appropriate.

2. The amount of time a child sits in timeout really can be much shorter than 1 minute per age. Having a child sit in timeout for a shorter period of time takes advantage of what I call “child time”, the true amount of time your preschooler can pay attention and hear you when she’s emotional.

3. The ability to “try again” needs to be included with your discipline.

Saying to a child, “you need to try again and show Mommy how you wait for a cookie instead of grabbing one from sister”, needs to be included so a child can learn what you expect them to do instead of what they did.

Deciding how you’re going to correct your child can seem over whelming at times, especially if you and your husband have different points of view or if you feel forced to use something that just doesn’t feel right.

Reading this gave me a big a-ha moment about the need to give the child the chance to correct his/her behavior. That turns the whole situation into a "do over" instead of a big crying scene that just makes everyone feel like a wounded jerk.

Definitely check out Sharon's site www.ProActiveParenting.net, where she has some great free resources (including a PDF about discipline vs. punishment that contains the insightful idea that discipline gives parents choices about how to handle a situation instead of locking them into one course of action) and some awesome paid downloads on a bunch of different discipline topics. She's also doing two parenting seminars in Phoenix, AZ on April 2 and 3, if anyone in the area is interested.

Now you guys know who she is, so when you see her comments here you'll know she's one of us, just a generation ago!

Comments on timeouts, or the difficulties of dealing with the toddler and preschooler years?

Comments

[Mommie Mentor]

Sharon, author of the timeout post, here for one last comment.

I, too rarely used timeout with my sons. I don't believe in causing more emotional distress by sending a child away from you to correct behavior. Children live in the land of right-here, right-now and need corrections to have clear, firm guidelines, a shorter duration and the ability to try again so they can see, while still connected to the event, what to do instead.
“No, we don’t do that”, my seminar for changing behavior for ages 1-3, has a parent stay right beside their child for the entire time they’re helping the child change his behavior; they’re too young to do this alone.
“That's it you’re in timeout”, named that because most parents are still using the word timeout, has a child sit near you, in a public place in your home for 1 minute at a time, versus being sent away from you as well.
It makes me so happy to see that even though most parents are still using “timeouts”, there’s a movement towards dealing in the here and now with children and responding to their true needs as a way to correct behavior.
As Moxie said, I’m a generation removed from all of you and have been working to get parents to see this point for a long time, these comments have shown me how far parenting has come! Thanks for all the wonderful responses!

[Shandra]

Just catching up and wanted to say what a great post! Thank you.

[paola]

@xxx

If you're child isn't having regular naps and trouble sleeping, chances are he isn't going to be very co-operative anyway. I have noticed both my kids get naughtier and naughtier closer to nap/bed time due to tiredness and they just won't do anything I ask them to, and often do things they otherwise wouldn't normally do. Well rested you can usually 'reason' with them, even the 14.5 month old to some extent.

I'm another thanker. Everything is 'thank you', 'please', 'sorry', and so it comes naturally to constantly thank my 3 year old for doing the smallest thing, apologize for losing my temper, saying please when asking him to do things. For me 'politeness' is very important. Italians don't tend to use these words a lot in everyday conversation, particularly with family. It always pissed me off when my father ( Italian) never said thank you to anyone for doing anything ( my MIL too for that matter). I guess that's another reason that I'm so insistent with my kids.

[nicole]

Does anyone else get bothered by requiring apologies? I feel funny asking my kid to say she's sorry when she's probably *not* sorry--even if she should be. I've been telling her (she's just 3) that she has to *do* something concrete to make up for injuries (if she takes away her baby sister's toy, she has to give it back). Because she can control what she does, but not how she feels. But insisting that she say she's sorry only seems to me to ask her to lie . . . still, I partly feel she ought to. Anyone else experience--and found a satisfying resolution to--this dilemma?

[Charisse]

@nicole, I've always like Miss Manners' take on this sort of thing, which is that sometimes you need to learn the socially correct action and the feeling will come later. I doubt if our kids feel truly grateful every time we make them say "thank you" either, but it's still important.

That said, Mouse used to have a lot more trouble getting out the word "sorry" and we'd use the idea of a "sorry hug" instead to help her show her (presumably) good intentions.

[hedra]

@pnuts mama, I do agree that there are times that they MUST COMPLY. *I* just have to take a moment to figure out what they are - and I usually end up with Safe Respectful Kind again.

In the early years, it is hard to get them to comply on the 'jump NOW' things if they're used to getting the discussion and problem-solving first. And yes, there are things you must do because that's how we do them and no other reason - though those things also fall under Respectful, due to cultural norms. If we're eating at the Japanese restaurant, everyone MUST use the hand cloths. It's fun, but if someone refuses, we still find a way to make it happen.

And if they've stuck a hand in a diaper, they're damn well washing their hands, obviously. Not a discussion, there. And I will get them to 'do' at that point, even if I have to walk them there. HOWEVER, because of my personal compliance issues, I have to figure out what times are compliance-mandated and what times are problem-solving alternatives. It's not automatic. Automatic is I say, you obey, on every blessed action. Which is as useless as a option-oriented discussion on running into the street. Safety is mandated, obviously.

We also got rid of the 'okay?' - not everything is a request. Sometimes it is 'I need you to do this - you don't need to, I need you to.' It still creeps back in now and then, but we try to avoid it. Asking, again, seems to work for a lot of those things, rather than demanding. Asking with a reason (I have a problem, I need your help) seems to get to cooperation faster than demanding (which leads to resistance). But the asking isn't 'do you want to pick up your coat?' and it isn't 'do you want to pick up your coat now, or later?' and it isn't 'do you want to pick up your coat or do you want me to pick up your coat?' - it is 'I am afraid I'm going to ruin your coat or trip over it, and I'm trying to make dinner very quickly so everyone can eat. Can you help me solve that problem?' I'm still asking, but they know the parameters, and it isn't so much a choice of how/when/whether to do it, but a prompt for solving a problem. They like solving problems. They like helping, especially when they get to figure out how to help. It seems to work, anyway.

Something else we've found useful for the older kids (5+) is asking them if they have a plan for solving the problem/complying with the request. A lot of my impatience comes from not knowing what their plan is - are you putting your shoes away first, then washing your hands, then coming to the table, or are you standing by the shoe cubby because you're thinking about how to dodge washing your hands? If they tell me, then I don't pester them, and I give them time to comply - which frankly, they do a LOT, if I give them time to do so.

I am also concerned with the choice overload. I think the planning thing plays a big role there - if I'm offering them many choices 'what do you want to do first' or 'you can do it this way or that way', it sets up a choice automatically, even when there isn't necessarily any value to the choices - as if just HAVING a choice is the issue, not the goal being the issue. Suggesting they tell me what their plan is for solving the problem allows *them* to figure out what parts are choices, and what are not, without providing too much pre-loading of choice to start with.

Granted, I think 4 is the youngest that really works in full form. Instead, it is 'what are you going to do next?' I guess that's the 'ask' part, really. Ask rather than prompt, ask rather than tell, and ask rather than set up the conditions/options.

I also do like to have my kids spend time with other people with other rules. My mom is probably a source of some of my compliance issues, and she's far more demanding at times than I am - the kids are there for the week (WEEK! Including overnights! woo!) this week, and they'll get a different experience and learn different skills. School likewise, different methods, different skills develop. Hopefully all the holes I produce will be at least partly covered by those other skills they learn.

@nicole, re: "Sorry" - I can remember my mom saying 'say you're sorry like you MEAN it' and me thinking 'but I am NOT sorry, you're telling me to LIE!' We swapped to 'please go solve that problem with (whomever)' - which may involve saying sorry, or offering comfort or problem-solving, etc. We at the same time, MODEL saying sorry. We include modeling FEELING sorry before saying it, as much as possible, facial expression and body language. And also the whole process of apology (which mostly isn't taught) - letting them know what we're sorry FOR (so that you're catching the right transgression and they know it), making the formal apology, indicating how we're going to avoid a repeat ('I'll work on listening better', etc.), and checking in to see if we're okay with each other (asking forgiveness for the big things, asking if there's anything else they need, etc.).

There's a lot of lying in social behavior/manners, but it is attuned lying. Learning to say sorry 'like you mean it' is too big a hammer for most kids. But apology is a social norm, and I want them learning the structure of an apology, the timing, and the habit. However, many kids just learn the habit without learning that they're responsible for helping solve the problem they created. Sorry ends up used as a slap-on bandaid for everything, no matter how severe the problem. 'How can I make it up to you' is seldom addressed. I want my kids to not only say sorry, but also manage all the other aspects of the relationship that get dinged when there's a social or personal transgression. I also think it takes 18-20 years to learn all that stuff. I don't expect them to get it all at once.

[hedra]

Oh, and I'm not 'counting on school' to teach them the rest - it kind of came out that way. School doesn't work that way. I have to set them up to even be able to absorb any differences they encounter, which means taking them to various situations where the rules are set by the location, and running them through the different expectations there, as well. They go to museums and libraries and church and so forth, in part as 'exercise' for their understanding of society and rules and how to function and behave. Some places are more rigid in the rules, and they experience that. Others have rules we don't understand right off. The Respectful rule applies all over the place, and compliance with those rules is modeled as well as expected. All in all, I think we must be doing okay, because people tell us the kids behave very well in public, and the kids have very few behavior issues at school, as well (to the point of the reverse at times - behaving alarmingly well at school).

I just know too many teachers who have kids who were handed them to 'train' as well as teach. That's not what I'm talking about, really. I'm just talking about additional exposures to other rule-based systems, which by their *nature* (being different than mine) will catch some things I've missed.

[hedra]

Hmm. Shouldn't post before coffee.

I realized that I don't always even 'ask' them to help me solve a problem. Often it is 'I need your help solving this problem'. And even when I ask, it may be 'how can you help me solve this problem?' (which implies that the only choice is what method, not 'whether').

@Sharon, the 'they're too young to do this alone' approach is what we call 'get off the sofa parenting' - you can't parent at a distance. I often WANT to just collapse at the end of the day, but I learned with G that if I sit and try to direct traffic, all I get is more reasons to raise my voice. (I so wish I'd realized how much the low-grade depression was interfering with my ability to get off the sofa early on... sigh. Fish oil made so much difference the second time around!)

Also, one of the things that the 'get up' approach does is provide them company on their process. Most of the time, at this point (youngest two are 3 1/2), they don't even want the company for things they know how to do (M closes the door if I try to come in with her when she uses the potty. She wants her 'pivacie'.) But when they're doing something new, or they're tired or upset, sometimes just giving them my hand and having them walk me to where they're working is all it takes. They like to work in tandem with others (just like they play), so having me working on something with them makes things go more smoothly, even if they're doing all the steps themselves. Likewise, some of the 'get them to help' stuff involves bringing their activity into my space - mental, physical, ownership, etc. Right now, if I'm cooking, M either wants me to come do something somewhere else, or she wants to help cook. At the moment, I have her trying herbs and spices (sprinkled on her hand or in a measuring cup) while I cook. She'll stay out of my way if I have her next to me MENTALLY as well as physically, but if I just have her there physically, she'll interfere. It's another one of the 'kid on the same side of the line with me, problem on the other' variants, I think - she's WITH me, not just next to me.

I wanted to add also that we've incorporated the 'try again' opportunity much more intentionally over the weekend, and while it wasn't particularly noticable with two of the kids, the other two (R and B, both of whom lock up emotionally) responded very positively to it. HUGE postive reaction from R, actually. She's prone to using her voice to punish people (sobs or screams as loud as she can for as long as she's angry/upset, and she stays angry a loooooooong looooooong time), but was able to calm herself down to quiet enough that other people could think, when I asked her to try again. Not sure if it just gave her a different rhythm in which to try calming down (since I think she tries once, decides she's still upset, and then stays with the rhythm of her own process at that point), or what, but it helped. And it helped me think through the wailing as well. I did have to do several prompts for it (3-4) with a good gap between, but that's okay. :)

[Ally]

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[WholesaleShoescn]

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Dear Sir or Madam:
We (WWW WHOLESALESHOESCN COM)co,.ltd are exporter & manufacturer located in China,
such as Nike NIKE (JORDANS /SHOX/MAX /AF1 /DUNK /RIFT ),ADIDAS, PUMA, ICE CREAM, BAPE STAR, GUCCI, PRADA and TIMBERLAND.
Meanwhile we also wholesale/retail world brand name mens or womnes clothing as following:Fashion brand T-SHIRT like (Lacoste/Polo/Bape/Evisu/BBC/LV/Tommy/Nike);
Fashion brand JEANS like (Red monkey/Evisu/Seven/Rock/True religion/Antik/BBC/Bape/Levis/D&G);
Fashion/Design Ladys Handbags ( LV/ Chanel/ Fendi/ Chloe/ Coach ), famouse brand Watches
we keep updating latest styles and stocks every day, if there are on the stocks,
drop shipping business is also welcome;
At the same time, we also accept small order to satisfy all customers.
One pair or piece is the mini order for all our goods.
If you are interested in our products, dont hesitate to contact us:E-mail:([email protected]) E-mail: ([email protected])

Thank you!
Best regards!

[WholesaleShoescn]

China Factory Wholesale Cheap:Air Jordans Sneakers,Air Force 1s Shoes,Dunks,Shox,Max,Adidas,Puma,
Brand Hoodies,Timberland Shoes,Jeans,Bags,Including Custom in WWW.WHOLESALESHOESCN.COM

Dear Sir or Madam:
We (WWW WHOLESALESHOESCN COM)co,.ltd are exporter & manufacturer located in China,
such as Nike NIKE (JORDANS /SHOX/MAX /AF1 /DUNK /RIFT ),ADIDAS, PUMA, ICE CREAM, BAPE STAR, GUCCI, PRADA and TIMBERLAND.
Meanwhile we also wholesale/retail world brand name mens or womnes clothing as following:Fashion brand T-SHIRT like (Lacoste/Polo/Bape/Evisu/BBC/LV/Tommy/Nike);
Fashion brand JEANS like (Red monkey/Evisu/Seven/Rock/True religion/Antik/BBC/Bape/Levis/D&G);
Fashion/Design Ladys Handbags ( LV/ Chanel/ Fendi/ Chloe/ Coach ), famouse brand Watches
we keep updating latest styles and stocks every day, if there are on the stocks,
drop shipping business is also welcome;
At the same time, we also accept small order to satisfy all customers.
One pair or piece is the mini order for all our goods.
If you are interested in our products, dont hesitate to contact us:E-mail:([email protected]) E-mail: ([email protected])

Thank you!
Best regards!

[Brutellio]

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Have a wonderful day and keep up the good work.
Brutellio.

[J]

All humans (including children) must be treated with respect and dignity. Children do well when they feel a sense of belonging and significance. A misbehaving child is a discouraged child. Being kind and firm at the same time is discipline which teaches (discipline means to teach or to learn). All this and more are concepts I learned in "Positive Discipline" series by Jane Nelsen. Positive time is meant for adults too, in fact, showing your child what you do to calm down (meditation, listening to music, etc.), can teach her a valuable life skill. however it is not meant for preschoolers, since logic and reason develop later. She has a books for every age now, and some of the books have been updated recently -the original book is twenty years old. She embraces non-punitive discipline, solving problems, getting the kids involved in solving problems rather than lecturing them on what to do - when kids are involved with solution finding, they are more likely to behave well. She also states we shouldn't look for perfection. But also is not permissive. Being non-punitive does not mean she's permissive.