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Who is Moxie?

  • Not an expert, just a mom. I help people troubleshoot their parenting problems.

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    This is my philosophy.

    Search my archives on the upper left side of the screen. If I haven't addressed your topic yet, send me an email. I get 12-15 questions a day, so yours may not go up on the site, and since I have other jobs I may not answer privately, either. Someday...

    New questions post M-F at 6 am (EST), usually, with a book review up on Friday night.

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Comments

rmkrome

I was gone for 9 days on a business trip when my daughter was 17 months old. I pumped and dumped while I was away but was getting a meager ounce a day towards the end. When I came back, Emma latched right back on and ended up doing more sessions until my supply was back to normal (didn't take long!) I still travel frequently for work (on average 3 days at a time) and Emma still goes for the boob when she wants, she is 30 months now. I know I don't have any more milk (pregnant with our second due in May) but she still likes the boob!
Good luck with the trip and safe return to you.
Moxie, I enjoy your site and the reader comments very much, it's really a great community!

Claudia

I had to wean Boo boo when she was 19 months, since I am scheduled for a mammogram, and the doc said I need to be done nursing for it.

She forgot all about nursing for maybe a week, and then started pulling my shirt up (which she had almost never done before) and would mouth my nipples more than anything. She wouldn't lay down, and she'd switch back and forth from left to right boob. Once, I squeezed out a drop of milk for her to taste, and she wrinkled her nose like that was not nice, and I ruined her fun. The next few times she tried lifting my shirt, I just didn't let her. Now, a few months later, she's all done.

paola

Thanx for the info. I know you helped me out on this one recently, Moxie, but that was in the days that I didn't want to wean my little milk vampire. Now I'm hoping that a few days away and she'll start to get the message that mum is REALLY SERIOUS about cutting down on the number of BF sessions. Sorry if I'm changing the subject here, but has anyone noticed that around 12-13 months, their kid goes bonkers for breastfeeding???

Shandra

This is so timely as I'm going away for two nights on business next month and am wondering whether my son (2.5) will wean, or do the crazy-nurse thing after. Nice to know both are possible. We only nurse at night and not that much, but lately I have been wondering if I'm going to have to push him out of that particular nest. :)

Paola - OH YES.

Must be Motherhood

I went through the exact same thing with my son at 18 months: a 5 day business trip. Until that point, we were nursing 6-8 times in a 24 hour period (to my dismay, actually), including once or twice at night. Pitter had always been a strong nurser--no problems but for learning to latch in the first 6 weeks. I pumped and dumped while away (and was actually 5 weeks pregnant at the time) and felt like my supply dropped a bit.
BUT, Pitter knew exactly what to do upon our reunion, although we quit him of the night nursing and now, two months later, we're down to 2-3 nursings every 24 hours. For us, a happy story without much trauma.
Good luck!

Katy

I was away for 2 and 3 days when BJ was 17 and then 20 months old and he had no problem relatching when I got back. He's been back and forward with the nursing- from wanting to nurse all the time, lifting up my shirt etc. at 18 months, to barely a 30 second suck at bedtime at 19 months - when I thought he was weaning for good - and now we're back to a good 10-15 minute session before bed. I still love the nursing but what I can't stand is the constant groping at my breasts when he sleeps with us at night -it's become his self-soothing method and it's driving me nuts!

mezzaluna

I started reducing the frequency and duration of feedings with my toddler when I got pregnant at 19 months. We did it slowly... so slowly that I don't think it was until the third trimester that we were down to once a day - he had been nursing 5-7 times per day plus a couple times a night. When we got to once a day I decided I was willing to keep saying yes once a day, but if he didn't ask I wouldn't offer, unless my mommy instincts told me he really needed it.

He started having trouble latching on to the right side... the side he had most trouble learning to latch onto, and the side with lower flow, slower let down. One time he "nursed" on that side without didn't latch, but he was contented anyway. The next time he asked to nurse, a few days later, I offered the other side, and he had forgotten how to latch on there either. It had been almost a week since he'd last latched successfully. I was 37 weeks pregnant, no milk supply since 20 weeks, no colostrum apparent, and I thought we'd just see if he could figure it out again once there was milk... but he never did. He was 27 months, which I count as his official weaning time even though he kept asking to nurse and trying unsuccessfully here and there for at least 9 months more.

I did feel some guilt about how much I had encouraged weaning, even though I never encouraged complete weaning. But on the other hand we did it so slowly and gently that he wasn't even asking for days on end, and that contributed to his weaning, but it was a sign that he was pretty much emotionally ready for it. I think he wouldn't have been so interested in continuing to try if he didn't see his little sister nursing all the time.

So I'm sure the line falls at different ages for different kids, but my experience definitely falls in Moxie's 22-34 month range.

Jessica

I'm glad you addressed this. I'm going on a four-day holiday in March (it will be the first time I'm away from my kids) and my twin girls will be 1 year plus a few weeks. I also am not planning to ween and was hoping we could just sort of pick up where we leave off. And I'm so nervous about being away from my kids!!! I'm looking forward to reading the other responses on this.

Any suggestions people have on preparing kids- (my son is almost two) for both parents being away would be most welcome, too. I apologize in advance- I'm not trying to hijack the discussion :) I just saw today's post and thought, "omg, that's what I'm really thinking (worried) about, too!"

Slim

My son self-weaned at about 25 months. A few weeks later I got pregnant, and I was very glad no one needed to be near my breasts, because ouch. But a few weeks after that, my son started to ask to nurse again, so I don't think he'd forgotten how by then. (I turned him down, explaining "Nursies are empty. Nursies don't have any more milk." He repeated that pretty regularly, for quite a long time. By the time I miscarried, I figured getting my supply back was more trouble than it was worth, but if I'd wanted to, I think he would have been happy to join the project.)

Eve

Paola, I was JUST wondering that! Around 13 months, my daughter became a BOOB FIEND! She'd always liked nursing, of course, but starting about a month ago, she began reaching down my shirt in public and just generally going crazy for nursing. I thought it might be because we moved cross-country and switched practically everything in her life upside-down, so I was feeling kind of guilty. Glad to know it could just be a function of her age and not her having a mental breakdown. :)

I'll be reading the rest of the comments with great interest because next month my husband is taking Ruby back to our old hometown to visit his parents for five days, and I can't come. I was planning to pump and dump and was hoping she wouldn't forget how to nurse. So once again, a very timely question!

Thanks, everyone!

Sarah.

My son was down to token nursing at 15 months and sadly, was too busy to nurse anymore by 17 months. When baby brother came along, he was 23 months and interested in nursing again (jealous, mostly!!), but when I offered him a chance, he'd just put his big open mouth close to my breast and then either giggle or scrunch his face up and shake his head.

I think it's likely to make a difference how much practice he's getting (how much will you still be nursing by then?), and how much importance he places on nursing (like emotional support after hurts and falls, nursing to sleep, etc.) whether he "forgets" his latch or not.

I'm hoping baby brother will continue much longer in our nursing relationship...and I hope you and your son continue as long as it's right for both of you!

pnuts mama

well, my experience is a bit different in that i had to go away for four nights when pnut was about 18 months, and at that point we were down to the before-bed nurse that she still seemed to need to go off to sleep- and i didn't know what we were going to do- more for her sleeping than my nursing.

i was sort of could go both ways at that point, too, in the sense that that nighttime nurse was sweet and not the pressure that nursing a teeny baby felt like for me- but i knew i needed to teach her how to go to sleep without it- or else both she and my sister (having her for the 4 days) were in for a terrible time.

we ended up slowly weaning- doing the same night time routine but ending the suckling after the milk ran out (didn't take long b/c honestly at that point i was producing so little- i can't even imagine pumping after 12 months! i was a pumping failure i think) and just snuggling. full disclosure- she used a binky so she could suck that instead of me and still get the comfort of the snuggle off to sleep or mostly sleepy, and off to bed in her crib.

when we got back i offered her to nurse, and she sort of seemed interested in the routine, but not really the nursing. did anyone else have a baby who would play with their nipple after the milk was gone- AGH!!so in less than a week after we were back she was really done. it *did* make me sad- but then again i always get sad during developmental spurts, mourning the once-was while being amazed by the what-will-be.

for example, at this very moment i am mourning the loss of my agreeable little 2 year old who has been replaced with this 2.5 year old dictator who disagrees with everything and doesn't know what she wants! agh!

Luann

I too am planning a 6 day trip away from my son this summer, when he will be 18 months old. I'm grateful for this thread! My intention has always been to BF for the first year then taper off as he eats more and more solids and switches to cow's milk, and with the trip planned I assumed I would have a goal of being totally weaned by then so that I wouldn't have to pump and dump while I'm gone. The way things are going lately though I'm wondering if he's going to be ready to give it up completely. Chow hound that he is, I can't imagine him forgetting how to do it, since it seems to be his favorite hobby!

He's 13 months old now and in daycare full time M-F. I stopped pumping three weeks ago and he's been drinking cow's milk from a cup at daycare without seeming to notice the change, although right before naptime he seems to prefer a bottle. The plan is to gradually reduce the morning and night-time nursing until they dwindle to one at bedtime, and then drop that one last.

Talk about a boob fiend, though - on the weekends he refuses anything but the breast, even though a month ago he was happy to drink a cup of milk with his lunch. And from the minute I pick him up from daycare until I put him down for bed he's tugging at my shirt, even reaching down inside or up from underneath trying to undo my bra. He's even waking up at night to feed once or twice, after several months of sleeping through the night (hard won, and now I think we're going to have to start over with the sleep training.) We don't co-sleep - I'm sure if we did he'd want to stay latched on all night!

I'm glad to know this 12-13 month nursing mania is not just mine to deal with - I was starting to think I had somehow brought this pattern on myself. Not that I mind nursing, generally, but with the teeth (10 of them) and the short attention span which causes the head to whip around at the slightest noise or movement, it's not as much fun as I'd like a lot of the time.

Charisse

oh, pnuts mama, the post-2.5 spurt is very tough indeed! hang in there.

No experience for forgetting to latch--I weaned Mouse deliberately at 23 months, and there was a lot of talking and even a weaning storybook involved. I never let her attempt to latch after the final time, but I know she didn't forget about nursing--for the next month or so she'd ask about it when stressed and we'd go through the whole routine of alternate big-girl comforts again. (Which was fine.) And about a year later, she happened to see me with my top off, pointed to my nipples, and said "that's where I used to nurse...but now it's small!"

meggiemoo

I had to travel for business when my DS was 14 months old. I was away for 6 days and pumped and dumped. I was VERY nervous that he would wean himself while I was gone. I didn't want my trip to be the reason for the weaning.

He did well while I was gone, but picked right back up with the nursing when I returned, and continued to nurse until his 2nd birthday when he just stopped asking.

I'm guessing a lot of it depends on how attached your child is to nursing, whether they have a strong desire to suck for comfort, and whether they have any other outlet for the sucking. My DS sucks his fingers, but they didn't substitute for the boobs!

Kelly

I dragged DS2 kicking and screaming through the weaning process at 2.5 years old. He asked to nurse again about a month after the final nursing session, but just made chomping motions and a funny face. I said "You've forgotten how to nurse, haven't you?" and he shook his head sadly. After DD's birth he asked to nurse again, but didn't object when I told him that it was for babies. He's ok with that since he thinks of himself as a big boy. Sometimes he looks at her with a bit of nostalgia and longing though.

Moxie

@pnuts mama: My babysitter and I were talking about the disequilibrium thing of the 2 1/2-year-old stage, and she said, "So that's why he falls down ALL THE TIME now, and he didn't in the fall." He's also a petty tyrant who cries these almost hilarious wracking crocodile sobs when things aren't to his finely-calibrated liking.

@Slim: Forgetting *how to* nurse isn't the same as forgetting about nursing. Kids can still want to nurse, but they do lose the muscle memory to get a real latch going at a certain age. So then it's just kind of the groping fumbling that you were probably tired of already by the time you were 21.

Melanie

I left my son for 8 days when he was 8 months old, and again for 8 days when he was 9 months old, and both times, he was just as happy to nurse when I got home as he was when I left. I pumped and dumped each day when I was away (ranging from 4-10oz total per day) and did not have any apparent supply issues when I got back home. I had pumped in advance so my baby had breastmilk for the most part while I was gone (it ran out about halfway through my second trip so they gave formula, and he had no issue with that either).

Julie

pnuts mama.....hahaha. Right there with you. Alex is the same age and goodness, he will argue with anything. But it's funny b/c he doesn't really know how to argue other than to yell the opposite of what you said. If you say "We can't go outside right now because it's raining" he will yell "It is NOT raining!"

I'm thinking of making a list of all the things he disagrees with....
-that pot is NOT too hot!
-that dog is NOT too old!
-that egg is NOT very good!
-it is NOT too early for bed!
hee hee hee.

Barbara

Hi Moxie and everyone - I have been reading this blog for several months now without chiming in - and am inspired to today by this thread! I have a 25 month old son who is still an avid nurser. I am pretty ok with that - but do wonder how we're going to change things one day. We can go without nursing all day if there is a lot going on - but the nap, bed-time, morning nursings are still really important to him. My friends, though supportive, tease me about the fact that he is still nursing -because most weaned at 1 year or shorthly thereafter...my mom thinks I am slightly off the deep-end - my German mother-in-law thinks I am perverse! [I say that with a grain of sarcasm] It is SO reassuring to read all of these comments - to see how many people choose to continue nursing a toddler - it makes me feel less alone and very content. Thank you Moxie! Oh, and I am going to join your challenge - just have to decide how challenging I want to make it for myself :)

Amy

Just another story of a mama whose toddler did not forget to latch when I went away. I went on a 4 day business trip this past December when my son was 19 months old. I pumped and dumped, and my supply did take a little hit while I was gone. But it returned right away when Aidan immediately started nursing like crazy as a way to welcome me back. The FIRST thing he did when I walked back in the door was pull up my shirt. I was so worried about him weaning, but no chance of that happening for us. In our case he has always been an avid nurser though. He still nurses 3-4 times a day, to go to sleep and in the morning. Good luck with your trip!

Amy

Hi Barbara! Just wanted to say that, as you know, you are SO NOT ALONE. My son is almost 22 months, and as you can read about, he loves to nurse. I get flak from people, but nursing is central to our relationship and so important to him, so I basically tell them to leave us alone. Glad that this post made you feel better!

Slim

Hey, maybe the next time he asks, I'll say "You've forgotten how." Because, like the other parents of 2 1/2 year-olds, I cannot get enough of being told no: "I have NOT forgotten!"

And because varying from an established pattern (such as "Nursies are empty") goes over so very well.

I crack myself up. Must be the hormones.

sue

Haven't gotten this far yet, but I have a couple of friends who had to leave for about a week when their nursling was around 18 months old. Most had no problem continuing to nurse after they returned.

paola - oh yeah! My little guy is almost 12 months (next week) and has recently gone crazy. He's always been a boobman, but lately that's ALL he wants to do. I've been attributing it to the fact that he's almost ready to walk, and needs a little extra time at "home base"

Oh, and 2.5 year olds. My goodness. Maybe I can ship this guy out for while when he hits that age because man oh man. I remember my daughter at that age, and it wasn't pretty. I actually (smugly, I'd sorry to say) did a lot of chuckling to myself at all of my friends who had waited until then to start potty-training. We started early (at 17 months) and thank goodness we did, because I don't know how anyone gets a 2.5 year old to do ANYTHING. Not that 3.5 (where we are now) is all that much better - she's more agreeable, but OH THE DRAMA!

Not to hijack and get all testimonially, but I started t-tapping a little while ago. I had tried to do a full workout boot camp, but ended up pulling something in my back (possibly not related - I do carry around a 28 pound baby all day long) and had to quit after 3 days for a while to recover. When I started back up, I started doing a Basic Workout + bootcamp only, to just try to condition myself before diving in "for real" Well, I measured myself today, after 12 days, and I've lost 9.5 inches (I actually lost 10.5 inches, but somehow gained an inch in my abdomen. grrr) already, ONLY doing the basic workout plus. I'm VERY impressed - that's amazing results after only 12 days and 15 minutes a day. I'm a little annoyed about the abdomen measurement, but that's my problem area (I lost in the waist and hips - an inch each) so if anything would go haywire, it would be there.

pnuts mama

thanks, everybody! moxie, "finely calibrated liking" is exactly what i'm talking about- OY!! and the wailing over nothing- so funny when it's fake and we ignore it and she checks to see if we are reacting. sigh. and we are totally in that wonky sleep thing right now, too- yippee!! and julie, yes, everything is in the negative right now- demands for things are then immediately negated "pnut NOT like ___!!"

i know this is completely normal.
i know this is just a phase.
i know that arguing with an irrational toddler is dumb.
i know being pregnant and cranky isn't helping.
i know i need to adopt the zen state of "surrendered mothering" that rudyinparis is so good at.

sigh. deep breaths.

back to the original topic- we know two friends with two year olds who just had babies and both older kids showed renewed interest in nursing that quickly dropped as soon as they tried it- they must have remembered *how* to latch months later to get milk- but didn't enjoy it anymore. thank goodness, since i don't know anyone who enjoys inexperienced groping and fumbling...

O

My first son weaned at 17 months. I was pregnant so I think he was "over it" (harder to get, less there, different taste, all or none of the above...don't know, but he definitely "told" me with his baby sign for "all done!").
My second son I thought would never stop. We were down to "nursies" before nap and before bed for months, but without really missing either at all if I was available. (Thank God others could put him down without him crying for nursies.) I went away when he was almost 2 for 2 nights...he came right back. We had other 2-4 night stretches where he didn't nurse...and he came right back to pick up where he left off. Then suddenly, in early January, I didn't put him down two nights in a row, and on the third, we read our three books, he gave me a big hug and kiss, and ran off to the crib. I almost called out to him, "Wait! What about the nursies?!" but I bit my tongue--I've been on the "don't offer/don't refuse" plan for months and wanted to hold up the first part of the bargain as well as I had the second. And that was it. NO warning. Just overnight (well, two) he either forgot about it or decided he was done. I was bereft, but he wasn't, and in the end, that was my goal. That, and weaning before puberty. So while I was sad, I was thrilled to have pulled off two child-led weanings.
Point being: if your baby "forgets" while you are gone...it was time. If your baby doesn't...it's not. I know you can try to get it going again if the baby stops, but I don't know what weaning looks like after that. So hang in there and good luck. May whatever happens make both of you happy.
And Sue, thanks for the t-tapp testimony. While the boys are in exhausted naps from 3 hours in the snow I think I have time to pop it in and try it for real. Those are inspirational results!

Rosemary

My 25 month old sort of forgot the deal on good attachment but the good thing about breastfeeding a toddler is that teaching them to attach is a bit easier than teaching a newborn.

I helped him along by saying, "wide mouth, tounge forward, suck with your tongue". It worked!

Cassie

Paola -- yes, yes, yes. My 14-month-old has been nursing like crazy for the last, oh I guess month and a half. First I put it down to the fact that he started at nursery one day a week at 13 months, and then to the fact that we night weaned (started about 3 weeks ago, just about got it sorted now). But it also kind of feels like those earlier fussy periods when he just needed to have the comfort, for no identifiable reason. I seem to remember reading here that some kids start to sleep through at around 15 months -- I've been wondering if maybe there is a growth spurt (cognitive or physical) that leads up to that point. (Sorry to go off topic, but I've been wondering about this ever since it started -- as usual, it's nice to know we're not alone.)

Moxie

(Apologizing for hijack)
@sue: Make sure your hips and shoulders are aligned vertically and laterally. You shouldn't be leaning backward or forward. That may take care of the abdomen thing.

Also, go on the forum at t-tapp.com and ask there. A bunch of trainers hang out there and will troubleshoot for you.

@Cassie--I think the 55-week leap is the storm before the calm of 15-16 months or so.

Julie

hee hee hee.....just heard "I am NOT the best boy ever!"

it's really really hard not to laugh out loud b/c it's so freaking ridiculous, and also hard not to imagine arguing with adults in the same way...."the dishwasher does NOT need to be unloaded!"

still laughing, even though it's a pain in my ass. "finely calibrated"....well put.

sue

moxie -

thanks for the tip on leaning. I'm going to give it another week and then take it to the forum - I think the difference in measurements could be from measuring slightly different spots on my abdomen. That, and I've been reading the book every day before doing the workout, to make sure I'm focused on all the proper form. I think that actually keeping my hands pressed on my abdomen during the box will help - the book describes it but the video doesn't. At any rate, that postpartum abdomen will have to be beaten off of me. Even when I was at my most fit, right before becoming pregnant with the little guy, and was swimming a mile a day, working on a farm, and chasing a 20 month old, it was there (obviously not as big as it is now, but still). I look like the "before" photo of a tummy tuck :-) I would've been SHOCKED if T-tapp could've made a dent in just a week :-)

ok, hijaking over. I promise.

Mommie Mentor

Check out Mothering Magazine.
They are all about breast-feeding and parenting. That magazine was my mentor as a young nursing mother. They have an amazing extensive back issue selection on any issue you could possibly want and may even answer your question from an email.
Good Luck.

janisfan

Paola: 12 months is another growth spurt time as is 18 months. My dd nursed like a newborn at both those times but by 13/14 months went down to 2ish times a day. (She's now 32 months and pretty solidly weaning herself - she has nursed maybe once in the past 6-7 days).

janisfan

Paola: 12 months is another growth spurt time as is 18 months. My dd nursed like a newborn at both those times but by 13/14 months went down to 2ish times a day. (She's now 32 months and pretty solidly weaning herself - she has nursed maybe once in the past 6-7 days).

Jessica

My daughter just turned 1 two months ago and I feel like she's been wanting the boob all the time too. I don't mind nursing her, but I kind of liked that we were starting to nurse less. I felt like we had more time to do things during the day that wasn't nursing.

I actually use the word "boob" when asking her if she wants to nurse [Now I know why people make up words for feeding time] so now she says something that sounds like boob and tries to pull up or down my shirt. It's cute, except when we're in public and she's set on wanting to nurse. This is where I wouldn't mind her weaning a little. I know I will miss it when the time comes, but I feel like it won't happen in forever.

LE

When my daughter was about 17mos and still nursing 3-4 times daily, I had to leave her for about 3 weeks. (Conference, conference, moving, defending thesis, moving again). I pumped maybe twice to relieve the pressure, but I've always hated the pump so I didn't try too hard.

When I saw her again, I offered boob. She took a look at it as if to ask, "what's that for?" I cried. In the morning, I tried again and she latched properly. She sucked for a few minutes, then switched boobs.

It took a few days to get my supply back from nothing, during which she nursed about every hour. My nipples felt like she was a newborn.

Now she is nearly 2 and nurses about twice each day. I don't think she's planning to stop any time soon.

hedra

B wanted to try again after the twins were born (he'd been weaned cold-turkey after he started setting off contractions. PTL/preemies much worse for him than unexpected weaning...). Anyway, he tried it, and still kind of knew how, but wasn't really interested in nursing (3 YO, almost exactly) so much as he was interested in being the one who got to choose whether he nursed or not.

M and R weaned recently, and it took about a week of not nursing for M to forget how, and about two weeks of not nursing for R to forget how. They're 3. I know other kids who forgot in 3-4 days at 2-3 years old. So Moxie's range sounds about right to me.

As for the nursing-like-a-newborn thing, I recall it was around 14 months, 17-18 months, and 20-22 months, same as the fussy stages.

phoenix

My husband and I went on a cruise for 6 days and left our 9 month old with my in-laws. We had booked this trip while I was still pregnant and did not understand anything about breastfeeding/weaning or even if I would make it to 9 months breastfeeding. I really worked myself up about it in the weeks coming up to the trip, but decided that I would accept weaning if that happened and would just pump the last few months until she turned one.

Well, I pumped religiously while we were on the cruise so my supply was not affected. We came back on the afternoon of the 6th day and she was napping at the time. When she woke up, she seemed to be a bit upset to see us, probably because she was upset that we left her. And then I offered to nurse and everything was fine again. So, long story short, she did not wean and I was so happy!

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    • I'm not a doctor of any sort, or a psychologist, or a development expert, or any kind of expert at all. I'm just a mom of two kids. Nothing I say here should be construed as medical or developmental advice. Read what I say, then make your own decisions. I am not responsible for your actions. Also, I don't want to buy, sell, or process anything as a career, buy anything sold or processed, and cetera.
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