Q&A: pooping to avoid napping

Happy New Year!

Heather writes:

"I am not sure if this is a problem others have run into or not, but my 10 month old daughter has been pooping a lot lately either 20-30 minutes in her naps or right after I put her down she wakes up and poops, thereby ending the nap. This is a typical day all of a sudden: 20 mins into a nap I hear her babbling away in her crib, not crying and wait and wait thinking she'll fall asleep, because she *must* be tired, right? Well, 45 minutes go by and I finally decide to go check on her and the smell of poop hits me the second I walk into the room.  I couldn't sleep with poop in my pants either, so I feel bad and change her diaper.  By this point, she is in no frame of mind to go back to sleep so we go downstairs and play until she seems tired enough to try again.  We go through the whole routine, I nurse her to sleep, plop her into the crib, close the door gently behind me and I hear, "bah? bah! mamamama!" and it starts all over.  I check 10 mins later and she pooped again!  This has been going on consistently for three days now.  Is she doing this on purpose?  Could she possibly have control over her bowels and be avoiding naps? I should mention she has a very solid routine and normally takes two 1 hr 20min long naps on the 2-3-4 schedule that you sometimes talk about.  Oh, and she usually poops *after* she naps or when she wakes up in the morning.  So, this is totally out of character for her, but becoming a new routine that I feel I can count on, unfortunately."

I feel bad laughing, but that was my first reaction, because I'm a 12-year-old boy sometimes.

I think the pooping has more to do with the nursing than with the napping. Many many many babies poop after they nurse, and it sounds like something about her digestive pattern has changed to make her poop shortly after nursing. (Why do the baby books not tell you that your kid's poop patterns often change right after a growth or digestive spurt? Both of my kids were like clockwork, with a new pooping pattern after the 3-week, 6-week, 3-month, and 6-month growth spurts. It's totally normal, but I get a surprising number of emails from people who are concerned when their kids go from 6 times a day to once a day, or something like that, and you'd think one of the big-name doctors would have thought to put that down.)

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if part of the big 8-9-month sleep regression had something to do with digestion, or if the increased movement around this age changed pooping patterns, or something like that.

Anyway, the point is that I think the trick is going to be to figure out how to get her to poop either before she nurses down, get her to nurse and poop and then fall asleep, or some other possibility.

You're really stuck between a rock and a hard place, because the whole point of nursing her down is that it always works like a charm, and why mess with something that works so well? But if she only goes down but doesn't stay down, then your beautiful system isn't working so well anyway.

In your shoes, I'd do pretty much whatever I had to to figure out how not to stop the nursing to sleep (having had a child who would not nurse down for naps and one who did, I really think nursing down makes everything so much easier for everyone because it's pretty much a guarantee). I wonder if you could mess around with the solids you're feeding her to see if you could get her to eat some poop-inducers at non-nap times to see if that would leave her without anything to poop out during naps. Raisins, pureed prunes, and squash were big poop-producers in my apartment. (Also, if I drank coffee--even decaf--and then nursed, both my boys would poop. Go figure.)

That's all I can think of, other than trying to get her to stay awake until she poops and then get her down, which makes me feel exhausted even thinking about the logistics. Of. (Some bad grammar for the new year. Did I mention I have some sort of illness that has left me with no voice today? It must be affecting the sentence-writing part of my brain.) OTOH, if you've been trying to get out of nursing to sleep for the nap, this is the perfect time to do that.

Any comment help?

Comments

[SarcastiCarrie]

I too am a fifth grader because I laughed.

This did happen to a friend of mine and she waited it out and the digestive pattern changed in a week or two and all was back to normal.

[SarcastiCarrie]

I laughed. I am a 5th grader.

This happened to a friend of mine. She waited it out and in a week or two, everything went back to normal.

[hedra]

I vote with waiting it out - but the issue may also be that she's getting MORE fruit/fructose/fiber than before, and that plus the lactose in the breastmilk may be kicking off the pooping reaction to the nursing. So if waiting it out isn't working, check her diet - if she's getting more than 2 oz of juice per day, or more than half the size of her fist in fruit or fiber at at least two meals, or is eating raw/whole fruits, or is eating dried fruits, fruit snack, applesauce, pears, peaches or other pit fruits, any of those could be setting her up for too much 'FODMAP' (fermentable sugars and polyols, basically), which makes for a too-active/too-reactive system. Oh, and it tends to make for grumpy, anxious, or ADHD-ish behavior, too, so going for more may cause other issues (for us it was rigid/inflexible tantrum city when we went up!).

Between starting solids and 3 years old is the lowest tolerance for fructose, polyols (sorbitol, xylitol, etc. - limit the amount of swallowable toothpaste, too!), and soluble fibers (fructans, inulin, FOS) - so don't go nuts on those too early! They're also the main cause of toddler diarrhea - and if that's basically what you've got going on (pooping during sleep when that wasn't the norm before sounds like diarrhea - especially with the frequency - it doesn't have to be super runny, just frequent), then ease up a bit on the fruits/fiber.

[Jaime]

This happened with my daughter. I just resigned myself to the fact that the nap would take two tries. She would go to sleep once, wake up poopy, then I would do what it took to get her down again immediately after. I wouldn't let her leave her room until she had taken a "real" nap. It will pass.

[Maureen]

Hi and Happy New Year everyone. My only suggestion is that if you know this is happening, perhaps check in on her more frequently while she is going to sleep. If you catch it prety quickly after it happens I think you might have a better chance of her going back to sleep.

We've definitely had this problem. Sadly, we have it now that my twin boys are 2 1/2 and it is definitely a nap avoidance on purpose thing now. They've figured out how to "push" it out and sometimes when they are trying so hard to avoid their nap, one will go, call out to let us know (we taught them to do this for the same reason as I suggested to Heather, otherwise, we wouldn't go in and they wouldn't go to sleep), change him, leave room, 5 mintues later, other one goes, calls out, change him. Sometimes if we are really unlucky, they will each go 2 times like this. That said, when they go, we are actually happier as we know their nap won't be messed up later by a poopy.

Good luck.

[Maureen]

Hi and Happy New Year everyone. My only suggestion is that if you know this is happening, perhaps check in on her more frequently while she is going to sleep. If you catch it prety quickly after it happens I think you might have a better chance of her going back to sleep.

We've definitely had this problem. Sadly, we have it now that my twin boys are 2 1/2 and it is definitely a nap avoidance on purpose thing now. They've figured out how to "push" it out and sometimes when they are trying so hard to avoid their nap, one will go, call out to let us know (we taught them to do this for the same reason as I suggested to Heather, otherwise, we wouldn't go in and they wouldn't go to sleep), change him, leave room, 5 mintues later, other one goes, calls out, change him. Sometimes if we are really unlucky, they will each go 2 times like this. That said, when they go, we are actually happier as we know their nap won't be messed up later by a poopy.

Good luck.

[Maureen]

Hi and Happy New Year everyone. My only suggestion is that if you know this is happening, perhaps check in on her more frequently while she is going to sleep. If you catch it prety quickly after it happens I think you might have a better chance of her going back to sleep.

We've definitely had this problem. Sadly, we have it now that my twin boys are 2 1/2 and it is definitely a nap avoidance on purpose thing now. They've figured out how to "push" it out and sometimes when they are trying so hard to avoid their nap, one will go, call out to let us know (we taught them to do this for the same reason as I suggested to Heather, otherwise, we wouldn't go in and they wouldn't go to sleep), change him, leave room, 5 mintues later, other one goes, calls out, change him. Sometimes if we are really unlucky, they will each go 2 times like this. That said, when they go, we are actually happier as we know their nap won't be messed up later by a poopy.

Good luck.

[Heather]

This kind of happens to be with my 7 month old. His first bowel movement of the day happens at 6:30am EVERYDAY. The three days he did not have this BM he actually slept until 8am! I am convinced he would sleep later if he did not wake up grunting at the crack of dawn. It's like he sees the sun, opens and eye and starts to push out the poop. I hate it. The good part is he usually only poops once again during the day. Of course now that every time I take the diaper off he feels the need to verify his twig and berries are still down there I have a whole new set of issues with changing him. I think I need duct tape or something to keep his hands off the privates when they are covered in doo! Ugh. I basically have to sit on him!

[rudyinparis]

Ah, poop talk. I think it's funny and adorable when I walk into their room in the morning and Younger (aka Meatball) is in her little sleeper in her crib and so adorable and when you get closer you realize there are real fume waves emanating from her. I'll never know how something so cute can be so stinky.

Anyway. Heather, I do think the nursing/intake/phase advice is undoubtedly right on. I will also say that Younger, in particular, seems usually inclined to poop when she's alone. My gut feeling has always been that she just instinctually likes some privacy. So maybe your daughter's not doing it to avoid a nap (and, by extension, to drive you insane) but maybe developmentally she's discovered she likes some privacy? Or something? I'm just throwing it out there.

[caramama]

If you know of any chair or position that is likely to make her poop if she's on the verge, you could try that before nursing and putting down for a nap. For the Pumpkin, her little Baby Bjorn potty is just the right position to help her poop (for my neice, it was the exersaucer), so I will try her on her potty right before nursing/napping. I'm not sure if it really helps, but it can't hurt, right? GL!

[pnuts mama]

i'm also willing to bet it's a developmental phase that she'll get through. since my favorite mantra is "it's just a phase, it's just a phase, om..."

is she definitely asleep when she's pooping? i'm wondering if you can't come back after 5 minutes or so of putting her down/her falling asleep with a fresh diaper (or keep one ready by the crib) and wait it out with a book or magazine and listen for some indication that it's happening, swoop in, quick change, shortened night-night routine, and back to sleep (if sleeping already). maybe use a warm wipe to keep her as lethargic as possible.

i'm also a big fan of telling babies what to expect "if you fall asleep and poop mommy will come in and give you a fresh diaper so you can get right back to sleep" or something so they know what to do.

i'm laughing too, but more over something i read once from an expert who stated that babies can't/don't poop or pee in their sleep, which justified bowel training from birth. i'm not bashing elimination communication or any of that, but it made me laugh since my kid has always been able to sleep through a blowout with hardly any notice. don't you sometimes wish these 'experts' had their home phone numbers listed so you could call them up and let them know your reality?

good luck, heather!

[Michelle]

Oh man. I laughed so hard at rudyinparis' "never knew something so cute could be so stinky". So true!

I went through this with my son - right around the same time I think. I would go in there, change him (no talking and no lights - if I could help it) and put him right back down. Sure enough the extra poop disappeared after awhile or migrated to after the nap.

Sometimes that would not work and the nap would be shot...but that was the exception.

Good luck and Happy New Year everyone!

[Cas]

Another fifth grader here, but one who feels your frustration because my kid actually did this around the time she was 6 months old. She was formula fed so that wasn't an issue. I thought that maybe she was bored waiting for sleep to hit her so she pooped for something to do. I don't know.
I just know that she would always ALWAYS poop when she was standing in her exersaucer (I think it was the standing up that did it)so I just fed her a bit earlier and left time for ten or fifteen minutes of the exersaucer time. It guaranteed a poop and then she wouldn't poop at naptime.
She grew out of it and then hit it again around the 18 month mark. She was out of the exersaucer by then but she was guaranteed to poop if running around having some naked time (again with the upright pooping). So I built that into her routine and voila. Problem solved.
So maybe look at when she seems likliest to poop and try to bring it into your routine. One of my friends who is likliest to poop in the bath and another has a kid who poops without fail while watching TV.

[Rachel]

How weird--just like a couple of other posters, the exersaucer is the guaranteed way to make my daughter poop. In our house it's been dubbed the poopersaucer.

So I would definitely see if you can figure out something like that. And know that it will pass. All kids are different, so this might not work for you, but when my daughter does this (exact same scenario, she's in there fussing and playing and crying, and when I finally go to her 45 minutes later, I realize she's been stuck with a dirty diaper all that time)--usually I can just quietly change her and then give her a little cuddle for a minute and put her down. She'll wail bloody murder for half a minute, but she usually falls asleep right after that. Obviously that might not work for you--but it's worth a shot?

[stacy]

I have no advice that hasn't been covered already, but can I just say that I love this question?

[Heather]

Hi everyone! I am the one that asked the poop question and I have an update...I have actually tried a couple of the suggestions in the past week without knowing you all would have these great ideas! It has worked a few times to go in a few mins after she wakes up, change her diaper and put her right back down. I think it sent the message that it was *still* nap time! Also, I found out by chance that if I put her in her crib to play before her nap while I clean up her room or put clothes away or whatever, she will sometimes poop. It seems she associates her crib with pooping...huh, babies are SO funny! It has gotten better since I asked this question (although it still happens) so it may also be that it was just a phase. Thanks everyone!

[Maureen]

Sorry my comments posted 3 times. System kept locking me out and so I just tried going back and posting again. I guess it worked the original time. So sorry...

[Jennifer]

I've experienced this with my daughter periodically. She's just over two now and we just went through another phase of it--this time the shortest ever: lasted 2-3 days right when my mother-in-law started a 2 week visit and was doing most of the primary care giving. I always just go change the diaper and tell her it's still nap time. Told my MIL to do the same and it stopped after a day or two. (Although, have to say that I went through a 2-3 week stint of this when she was just over a year.)

[Rachel]

EC Mama here. (let the jokes begin!)

Anyways, we did the whole poop on the potty thing since birth and still went through this phase around the same time. It wouldn't be totally crazy to try and put your daughter on the potty (or a potty insert over the big potty) and have her poop after her first nursing of the day...There is something about the squatting position (and catching them at the right time) where they just learn to poop! You can see that she already has strong associations about where to go. Anyways, my thoughts were to see if you can have her go poop before the naps, or since you at least know when she is going to channel that into leaning about sitting on the potty.

[pnuts mama]

rachel- i am so totally not against EC or using it for your child!

i just thought it was weird for someone to say that babies can't poop in their sleep as what sounded like a defense of using EC. i was like, hmm, maybe that person should meet my kid.

i personally don't think anyone needs to defend any decision they make for their kid when it comes to just about anything...or have jokes made at their expense...

[Julie]

It sounds like when kids are "stimulated" in a certain way, they poop. I know this is true of me. For some kids it's the exersaucer. For my kid, it's "playing office" or "playing kitchen". Guaranteed poop everytime. I think Heather's kid is too little to have it be so clear, but someone above said something about liking the privacy of her crib. Sometimes that's all it takes.

For what it's worth, Alex doesn't poop right before going to sleep, but he DOES try to convince me he HAS a poop in his diaper to delay bedtime a little bit longer. I guess he knows about that niggling voice in my head that would say "maybe he really DID have a poop. You really should have looked" and plays it for all it's worth. Stinker. Haha.

[z]

for panda, it was the bumbo seat for the longest time that was his pooping place.
now it's just running around.

Heather glad that some things are working. Hopefully in another week or so it will have worked out.

[susannah]

A bit OT, but @rachel- I am completely fascinated by EC but have never talked to anyone who actually did it. how is it working for you??

[Rachel]

pnuts mama -

I don't think I understand :( I never said anything about baby's pooping or not pooping in their sleep. As for jokes - I think there is a perception that parent's who EC with their kids are a little overzealous and perhaps crazy, so I was sort of expecting to be teased a bit. Which I'm game for :)

But since you did bring up pooping while sleeping, it's been my general observation (of my very limited pool of our son and other friend's who EC) that it's diffcult to poop while asleep. At least after month 4 or 5...now, waking up to poop then falling back asleep, or pooping while waiting to fall asleep, or pooping right upon waking up are all variations. If you're not sleeping right next to your child it might be hard to tell which one is going on (which is fine - I'm just pointing out that it might be hard to tell exactly what is happening). I'm sure there are exceptions in the universe, but it's pretty accepted in the EC community that needing to pee or poop is a common reason for babies to wake up or have trouble falling asleep.

z -

Our personal experience is mixed! Overall, we've loved doing it, especially in the early months when it is easier (we started at birth). It's so rewarding to get that sort of communication going, you think they need to poop or pee - you take them - they go - and you all feel pretty good about it! Our son started getting mobile around 6 months and after that he would be so ANGRY if we tried to make him go (he was way to busy), so we really just let it slide. Up till that point it was pretty simple, although explaining to people what we were doing was always fairly hilarious.

He's just turned two now, and has always pooped on the potty. Pee is a different matter, so we have him in a cloth diaper most of the time (except for outside on warm days). He pees like every 30 minutes, so it would be insance to keep up with that! Since around 12 months he has signed "potty", and now just just says "Poop!" and runs to the bathroom to sit on the potty and read a book. He will also tell us he needs to pee sometimes, and will pee if we take him. I've like this sort of half&half approach, since we've changed like 10 poopy diapers his whole life and haven't had to be super diligent about the rest. I think he has about 2 or 3 wet diapers a day right now. We've had weeks with totally dry diapers, but that was pre-mobility...

I think if he wasn't in part time daycare we'd just get rid of the diapers, but they have a totally different idea of what potty training is (as in, they expect him to take off his pants, sit alone, and get dressed again - he's not ready for all that!). So the poop on the potty and the rest in diapers is working well for us right now.

I think that covered it?

[rachel]

Oops - I left something out.

As connected to the original question:

Our son has gone through phases where he totally used needing to use the potty as a tactic to get out of a nap (around 12 months, then again around 18). I'd nurse him, read books, get him in bed, then "I need Poop! Potty!" - and of course I'd take him, only to get to the bathroom and have him say "Bed! Books!". ARRGGH. Then we'd start the process all over. It sucked, but I learned to give him one chance (because sometimes he really did need to go) and then straight back to bed. He grew out of it, like basically everything else :)

[&BabyMakes75]

Rachel,
Wow - under a dozen poop diaper changes. Oh my, what a wonderful fantasy that would be for me! (Imagine thinking that pre-baby!) I'm so glad it is working out for you. {sigh}I saw EC work with a friend and thought it would be something I could do but, {again with the sigh}, going back to work when sonshine (spelled as a pun on purpose :-) -- can you tell I'm a teacher?!) was 3 months prevented it. Sure, it may have been possible but I was way too stressed out. I know I have derived pleasure and fulfillment from work, I know my son is thriving in all the ways I want him to, yet the mother guilt is present. {sigh}

Clearly this post is a result of what happened a half hour ago: sonshine waking up for about 2 minutes, wanting to be held and then went right back to sleep. Me? Wish I could go back to sleep so easy.

[Emme Bea]

I have a different theory about it. It happens off and on with my son (13 months) and it goes in spurts. (HA! NO pun intended.) We don't breast feed, and I can't see a food connection as it happens at different naps (rarely during the night). But here's my theory. My little man is just so busy playing and being a toddler that he just doesn't slow down enough to relax to poop. On his REALLY playful days where he just seems to go go go, he seems to go in for his nap and I think he finally relaxes enough to poop. Does that make sense? Like he finally slows down to smell the roses and takes the time to poop. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that's what's happening with my little one, but wouldn't guarantee it's the same for everyone.

Ahhhhh. Poop questions. Gotta love 'em!

Emme Bea

[La Folle Maman]

Just took our son to the hospital today for dehydration due to diarrhea. I had read this post about poop colors prior to going and thought I knew the answer to why my lil' Monkey's poops were neon green. When I say neon green, I'm talking the 80's sweater type of neon green.

Today the doctor in the ER said it was due to the grape Pedialyte I gave him. Only the grape does that, she said. However, the nurse said that it was because he has the dreaded Rotavirus (they took a poop sample and are supposed to call us when the results are in -- yay). Not sure who to believe, but he hasn't had any Pedialyte in two days (refuses it) so I'm thinking maybe the nurse is right. Who knows.

[La Folle Maman]

Sorry! I meant to put that previous comment with the post about the different kinds of poop! My Bad!

[grace]

Hi everyone. All of your inputs been pretty helpful. I also have a daughter who is 13 months and she is pooping while sleeping. It's been 2 days now. I know in fact she is pooping while sleeping because I sleep with her during the night. I can actually hear her pushing while her eyes are closed and snoring. She does this during the nap time as well. Maybe she's dreaming and in her dream she's pooping. Or maybe the white peach that I've been feeding her since 2 weeks ago has changed her digestive system. Or maybe she's at the age where her digestive system is changing. I don't know what's causing the problem but I hope it'll blow over in couple of days. At least I know that my daughter is not the only kid who is doing this. I feel normal now.

My daughter pooped normally at least 3 to 4 times a day. Sorry to be so descriptive but, her poop was solid and color was good. Maybe all the kids who have active bowel movement have this problem? Or maybe it's just a phase like one of the mother explained.

My daughter drinks 3 eight oz bottle per day. Our pediatric doctor told us to feed her 16 oz. per day. Could it be possible that I'm giving her too much milk and it's causing this problem? Can any of you give me an input on this. I'll keep you posted in couple of days.

[Amy G.]

My 14 month old has been going through this "phase" for about two weeks and I am going nuts! Today I am going to try and change her diaper and put her back in the crib -- thereby not ending nap time. Thanks for the input.

[Emily Sanders]

My daughter is 2 and she poops alot at nite. The worst thing is she then decides to take off her diaper and roll in it.
She then cries coz she is covered in it.
She really embarrasses me even tho no1 is watching. Has any1 got any ideas to getting her 2 stop rolling in her poop?

[coach bags outlet]

Great write up. It is indeed the chance encounters with friends that can be really enjoyable.*

[air max 90]

Science and technology is the first productive force

[Avicenna]

Lisa W - I had an outright BELLY laugh reaindg this. Hysterical. My eighteen month old pooped on her floor two days ago, then stepped in it before I could catch her and trailed it into all three of my kids' bedrooms. Oh..the life of moms!!March 19, 2009 10:48 PM

[Rashi]

We went through about a month of this I tried difenreft diapers, and that never seemed to matter (although the ones with the stretchy sides do seem to do a little better of holding it all in).When I started my son on cereal and solids, though, everything changed. He is a boob boy, and he's 6 months old cereal at first made him a bit constipated, but once he started on carrots and squash, his diapers were more solid but not on the constipated side. Now, they are smelly, but they are at least contained!You might want to also try a size larger diaper. Just like clothes, the diapers don't always match the weight. If it doesn't help, it isn't wasted money you'll use them eventually!Hope this helps!

[Picit]

unfortunately theres ntnoihg you can do..the dog isn't going to change..and if it does it's not going to be easy to train it. The girl should have to take care of it, or her dad should take something away from her, like tell her if she can't take care of the dog, he's finding a new home for it,(no one is going to want a 10 year old dog that isn't house trained) or she's going to have to find a new place to live with her dog.That's ridiculous. This question makes me really mad..I hope something good happends to that poor dog, and the girl stop being so selfish and take care of her responsibilties

[Erik]

Aww, Avery reminds me a lot of Katie who is also an aziamng big sister. They are so close in age, I bet they would have so much fun together. Her and Andrew are both adorable! We have got to get together sometime soon!

[Popescu]

Yes, Anthony (aka Tony) is my stepson. When I met my hubansd, Tony was just 7 weeks old. I married my hubansd when Tony was 17 months old, and a little after his second birthday, he came to live with us full time. By that time, we had Audriana, too. Then Afton came shortly after that. His mother and her hubansd and their children (5 of them!) live an hour away. They are a wonderful family. Tony has 13 younger brothers and sisters, two moms, and two dads who all love him very much. Lucky kid :) We all have a good relationship. We are very fortunate that way. Tony calls both me and his mom "mom" and both dads "dad". As far as Audriana's story....oh, it's such a long story! and I work on it bit by bit when I feel inspired to, and when time allows. It was a long time ago, yet I remember it so well, and I just want to tell it in detail the best that I can. Yes, I most definitely will be doing a "part 2" and "part 3" and so on, because to actually "finish" her story will take time. I just want to document everything as accurately as I can, so I don't want to rush it.Thank you for visiting my blog, and thank you for your compliments :)

[alexander]

You know, I always wordened at my friends who complained of their kids pooping in public restrooms. Until last month imagine I made it through 17 and a half years of motherhood before having a kid insist that she needed to poop in public (as it were). Not once, but 3 times in one month and so I told her she had to cut it out, I wasn't going to stand for it all the other kids saved their poop for home, why couldn't she? I said this in public. I can't imagine what the person in the next stall thought.But I cannot bear it. She'll just have to have therapy when she is older.[]

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[Daddus]

Oh, that's funny and awful at the same time now I don't feel so bad about my 2 1/2 yo daughter. She is not ineetestrd in potty training yet, but thankfully she doesn't drop poopy pants etc about the house = now I feel lucky! Still, I hope she potty trains before going away to college (yeah, I know she won't wear diapers forever but there are days when it sure seems tha tway .)

[Bahri]

Good luck. Potty training is a beast.And, you know how I know I'm an exeineercpd parent? I was reading your post, all the while eating dinner and it didn't even occur to me until after I had finished.

[Adhie]

Congratulations on your new little dgethaur. Mark and Maria Esther come to dinner last eve. I asked about you, and she told me that your dgethaur had arrived. I enjoyed the pictures. I don't have apple quick time, so couldn't see all.Do you have a new email address. I tried sending email and it came back to me.

[Perico]

I hear you and amen to that shuffling. Thank genodoss I have DH to help or, I would be too overwhelmed with all that is still to do.Finally getting some things planted out but, with three new beds for veggies we are behind ..tilling, raking, de-rocking (is that a word?) and now fencing.