Q&A; Rolling over in sleep...ACK!

I love it when readers answer their own questions. Nancy writes:

"File this under "don't brag about how your baby sleeps 11-12 hour per night" as it will come back to haunt you!  We sleep trained our 6 month old son with excellent results about 6 weeks ago and have had mostly amazing sleep-filled nights ever since (with the exception of a couple of teething incidents).  Last night at 1 am, he decided to roll over for the first time in his crib.  As he found himself on his belly, he immediately started screaming.  My husband flipped him over and was able to quickly get him back to sleep only to have him do the same thing again about an hour later.  This waking was much more involved and required about two hours of rocking, feeding, shushing to get him back to sleep.  He has very strong legs but his arms haven't quite caught up yet, and rolling over has been a pipe dream of his for the last month or so.  Any ideas about how to help him get through this? Is the prescription just lots of tummy time so he can master this milestone during the day?"

You've got it. He's more wakeful in general because he's working on the rolling over, and the only way around rolling over is through it.

There's no way to force a kid to get through physical milestones (hearing stories about someone "teaching" their kid to walk always makes me laugh), but the more a child can work on the skills the sooner s/he'll get good at them. So tummy time is exactly the prescription to end your nighttime wakeups.

Once he can roll over easily on his own, he'll stop waking himself up by rolling, and he'll also stop being up and cranky and needing to be soothed so much, because that part of his brain will be able to relax again.

You'll probably have to sleep train him all over again after this is over (the dirty little secret of sleep training), but depending on how old he is when he gets through this, you might be in the middle of the 8-9-month sleep regression. Which is one of the worst times to try to change your child's sleep, and will make you really frustrated. So I'm hoping he comes through it more quickly and you can get on a more even keel first, but if you end up with this movement leap transitioning into the developmental stuff of 8-9 months, just know that it won't last forever, and he will sleep all night again eventually.

Oh, and here's a good point to mention that although we're all told to make sure our kids sleep on their backs, once they can roll onto their stomachs we can let them keep sleeping that way (if they will).

Comments on rolling? Milestones? The upcoming weekend? Which of the new toys are still in favor and which ones have already been ignored?

Comments

[paola]

Both my kids prefered sleeping on their tummies from about 6 months on. I freaked out when my first child started and every time I heard so much as a whimper ( he too slept all night from an early age)I was in there like a flash to turn him back over. Lots of sleepless nights for me, although he was happy to sleep like that and didn't even wake himself fully when he flipped himslef, unless he got his legs caught between the bars. Eventually I let him sleep like that as that what the position he preferred. With my second, I didn't even bother to flip her back. Again, she would wake only if she got her legs caught between the bars of he cot, but this was remidied when the colder months came along and I put her in her sleeping back.

[Parisienne Mais Presque]

My little guy started flipping over onto his tummy at not even three months, which surprised the heck out of us and his pediatrician. Luckily, I looked into it and found out quickly that it was generally considered okay to leave him when he rolled over by himself, because it's almost impossible to move him without waking him.

For him, the frustration about it all was short-lived. He learned to flip back in the other direction a couple weeks later, and quickly preferred sleeping on his tummy. He flips over systematically now and no longer sleeps on his back more than the fifteen minutes or so after I put him down, if that.

We've discovered that certain of his sleeping bag thingies (since I became a mom here in France, I'm not sure of the American name -- here they're called turbulettes, which I find cute!) make flipping over difficult and annoy him enough to interfere with his sleep. He has a favorite which we, alas, only bought one of. It gets washed a LOT, and I'm hoping the zipper holds up.

We discovered this morning that if we want a calm(ish) morning to ourselves with enough time to shower after he wakes up, it is important to take him out of his sleeping bag and let him play in just his pyjamas. It makes it easier for him to roll around and get at his toys.

Flipping over is still a favorite activity here. At six months, he's more interested in rolling than attempting to crawl or sit up. It's the flipping to his tummy while on the changing table that makes life difficult...

[Ann-Marie]

When our son went through this around the same age, we had the best success with teaching him to sleep on his tummy. So when he would cry after flipping onto his tummy, we'd go in and soothe him by rubbing his back and shushing, but leaving him on his tummy. At first, it took a while to get him back to sleep, but after a week or two, he would settle down immediately. And then one day, I went in to check on him, and he was sleeping on his tummy, having flipped there all by himself (I continued to put him on his back to sleep when we put him in the crib).

During the day, we also worked on tummy time, as has been mentioned, and I used toys to help motivate him to roll over in both directions (he was physically capable but it took a while for it to "click" mentally that he was able to cause himself to roll).

FWIW, we found that once we got the rolling thing under control during the night, then we had to deal with crawling, then pulling up, then walking. We had been spoiled by a good sleeper early on, too, and then months 7-12 were rough.

[Dr. Maureen]

My husband's aunt is oft heard explaining that her eldest child was walking by 9 months because she had no car and therefore nothing to do but play with her and teach her to walk, and her second child did not walk until 15 months because his aunt was much busier with two kids. My own son was walking by 10 months. It is not, believe you me, because I taught him. I was in no rush! Toddlers are much harder to keep track of than babies! At any rate, I do manage to keep my eye rolling in check.

[Lemon]

We went through this at exactly 6 months with my son. He was sleeping beautifully... and then started to roll. We ended up flipping him like a cheeseburger 5 - 6 times a night - it was hell. Then... we let him work it out, and go back to sleep on his own (on his belly) it took about one episode of crying about 20 - 30 minutes, for 2 - 3 nights, and then he was over it. Thank God. I hope you come to a live-able solution, and fast!

[Michelle]

My daughter rolled over very early - from back to tummy right around 4 months. She has gone in phases sleeping on her tummy, but these days I find her still on her back most of the time.

My son was a tummy sleeper from the moment he could roll over. We left him on his tummy if he found his way there but always put him down on his back (and still do - he's 22 months).

I want to hear more about getting a 6 month old to sleep through! My daughter is so busy teething and getting ready to sit up that I am exhausted!

[electriclady]

My daughter actually started sleeping better once she learned to flip onto her tummy--I think she did most of the working-it-out part during the day, and just slept better on her tummy in general (still does). However, speaking of milestones, her sleep went to crap as soon as she started crawling, continuing through the 8-9 month sleep regression, and has just settled down again now that she is a confident walker...5 months later. Um, not to scare anyone or anything.

[pnuts mama]

hmmm...duct tape? I'M KIDDING! KIDDING!

can you believe the pnut never rolled over (or crawled or walked) on her own til well after a year (closer to 18 months) so we never had this problem. the only sleep problem we avoided.

moxie, i would respectfully disagree that you can't "teach" a kid their developmental milestones- i would imagine that *eventually* a kid would learn to walk (etc.) on their own, but for our kid, she seemed to need the professional help to make the connections to move. of course, she's the exception to the rule- most kids do do it eventually, which is why we waited so long to have her evaluated for PT. of course, you'd never know now that she was just a wee slug for those 1st 15 months or so.

toys:
overall favorite is the h*ss monster truck (her dad is so proud!), a flashlight, and her new dollhouse.
one she forgot all about is the CPC doll/carrier she got from grandma and hasn't noticed has been missing since the trip back, thank jesus.

[Shannon]

Moxie, I'm glad you said that thing about how the dirty little secret about sleep training is the RE-TRAINING part after teething, illness, regressions, etc. I didn't do the CIO thing, per se (both for practical and philosophical reasons), but I did do the, "Okay, you've nursed, and now you have to be a big boy and go in your crib to get yourself to sleep." Finally, FINALLY we were down to one wake-up a night and then mini-nurse and back to sleep (10 minutes total out-of-bed time for me). Then we went on a 10-day trip over the holidays, and he regressed back to 3x a night wake-ups. It got to the point where I was cursing my relatives for living out-of-state and thus necessitating holiday travel. That's the kind of irrational thinking that happens when you're so tired.

[Charisse]

toys: small, urban-flat-sized wooden dollhouse a big hit, penguin nesting dolls also, pop-up books good, big-kid read-to books even better, doll clothes meh...favorite at the moment? "Cars" matchbox cars given as bravery prizes for the first couple of bandage changes on a nasty cut.

2 kid birthday parties this weekend, but tonight Mr. C's company is having a late holiday party and we have a sitter, so I get to actually dress up and go out. Woo.

Milestones can still wake up my 3 1/2-y.o., especially in the run-up. We kept using the same methods when she was a baby, which was just to soothe our little cry-tension-increaser and then pantlify her when she seemed to be even keel again. Happy glimpse of the future? A bad night now (aside from illness of course) is 5 minutes in her room administering a hug and some pats.

[MrsHaley]

PANTLIFY!!!! Bwah ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!

Perfect! Descriptive AND funny!!! I do it too, and never thought to call it that ... Charisse, you card!!!!

[Julie]

We had to teach Alex how to sleep on his tummy, since we went through the same thing you are going through. So during naptimes I spent it on our bed with him, patting him to sleep while on his tummy, and gently guiding his head back down when he would wake up and cry thinking that, since he was on his tummy, he was supposed to be playing.

Took about a week or so. Naps were crap needless to say. The other problem was that along with learning how to tummy sleep, we also had to eliminate the swaddle and the sleep positioner all at the same time. But once it was done, sleep went back to normal. For a little while at least. And now he will only sleep on his tummy. But I think sleeps deeper and better and - most importantly - LONGER.

Good luck.

[Marian]

I also learned the hard way not to brag about night sleep. We had been doing so well into the Fall - 12 hours of sleep at night. The my 9 month old was learning to stand/pull up and it all went to crap for nearly 2 months. Lay her down. Stand up! Lay her down! Stand up! For hours!! Naps wouldnt happen and then night sleep was disturbed because she'd be standing and also because she was overtired. Oh well. She's nearly 11 months now and its getting better bit by bit as she gets to be a more comfortable stander. I hope learning to walk won't completely screw us up but I'm not too hopeful.

[PrehistoricMama]

My DS would only sleep on his stomach, so that's where he slept from early on. (Next to me, natch.) Funnily enough, at 2 years old, now he sleeps more often on his side or back.

Favorite toys from xmas and recent birthday: Melissa & Doug folding dollhouse, books, books and more books, and the cardboard castle we made him for his birthday.

CPC racetrack from sister-in-law that never worked properly and had ill-fitting pieces? Donated rapidly to Salvation Army. No one misses it.

[Carmen]

My 10 month old has only slept through the night twice when he was about 6 months old. No kidding. That being said we were mostly surviving with him going to bed in his crib for about 1-3 hours and then pulling him into bed with me for the all night nursing bar. THEN the 9 month sleep crap hit, THEN he started pulling up to standing about a week and a half ago and now he nurses in bed with me, rolls away, struggles with the covers to roll onto his tummy and then crawls two feet up to the wall or into the corner against the wall, bonks his head, starts crying, I yank him back to nurse again and then when he starts to fall asleep he does the whole flip/crawl routine again... AHHHHH!!! Ever since he started pulling up to standing he is now SOOOO much more mobile in bed. I feel like I'll never sleep again! I'm sure this will pass too but the doc predicted my little tank will walk at 13 months... dear god not 3 months of this please!!!

[Amy]

Yup, been there. We called ourselves The Human Spatulas. We had to go in every hour or so, for about two weeks. Then she started sleeping on her stomach, and all was well again. We did have to show her how to put her arm along her side (rather than over her head) as she was trying to master rolling from tummy to back - it's hard to get up over that arm! - but she mastered that eventually, after lots of daytime practice.

You know, people told me that I would look back at these phases with a "hmph ..." and very grey recollections, and that it wouldn't always seem awful, and that it would, indeed, pass. I never believed them. But 16 months into parenthood, I now know it's true!

Hang in there, spatula parents ...

[caramama]

Pantlify. hehe. Spatula parents. haha. You guys are funny!

The Pumpkin rolled over in her sleep at 3.5 months, freaking out me and hubby. I was worried we were going to have to be spatula parents, but after a call to the doctor's office (I told you I was freaking out) they told me that once she rolled over not to bother turning her back over. Especially since she usually sleeps better on her stomach. Thus, we avoided the all night flipping.

All though that was the end of the (blessed, wonderful, used-to-give-me-hours-of-sleep) swaddling, and we entered the 4-month sleep regression, which progressed to trying to crawl and straight into the 6-month sleep regression. So no flipping, but lots of wakings anyway. (Goodness, how I miss the swaddle.)

FWIW, I put her down on her side when I lay her down in the crib. She usually rolls onto her stomach after a while. And things are mostly much better.

Toys: After a big ah-ha moment, I requested (and bought) touch-and-feel books and pop-up books for the Pumpkin for Christmas, and these have been a huge hit. I recommend them for anyone else who has a very active baby who doesn't like to just sit there and be read to.

[Christine]

I've got nothing to add on the sleeping thing, since Max never slept, ever (at least as I remember it).

But - favorite toy was a garbage truck from grandparents. It was the first thing he opened, and Christmas was pretty much over after that. He still sleeps with it.

And, off subject, but a big smushy thank you to the person who recommended smugmug.com on the disaster post. We love it.

[Kait]

My little one just started rolling over this week (5.5 months), so I suppose that I have all of this to look forward to! I'm glad to hear the advice before it starts to happen!

She did manage to pull her baby monitor into her crib (it was balanced on the rail) and turn it off this morning. That woke me up with a fright!

Her favourite toy this season was her Jumperoo, and her least favourites are her "advanced" toys (ones that are rated for a little bit older, like the xylophone and the Leapfrog Learn around Playground).

[anonforthis]

Since I can't think of anything else can I ask you all an off topic question? I just found out I am pregnant. My DS is 11 months. Neither DH nor I ever planned on or wanted another. I have no idea what to do. Has anyone out there gone through this? Had a second so soon after the first, when a second was really, never wanted in the first place? Anyone made mistakes? Have regrets? Wish they'd decided otherwise? I feel like we've barely survived the first year with number 1. I honestly don't know if we'd come out still married and sane on the other side of a number 2. Well, ok, I trust we would survive, but barely. Any thoughts or advice?

[bree]

Rolling over was a lot easier to handle than pulling to stand. I remember a week or so of problems when he would roll over and wake up as soon as I put him down, but he learned to sleep on his tummy for a bit, and then reverted back to sleeping on his side (though he still rolls in his sleep quite a bit). Crawling was another sleep-loss time, as he would roll over and start crawling around the crib in his sleep, but he eventually calmed down and went back to sleep. Not so easy with the standing, as he can't just fall back asleep when he can't get himself down.

My little eight-monther is putting me through hell right now. He has always been a wake-every-40-minutes, nurse-all-night, tension-increaser, so sleep has always been our biggest problem, but now the second he hits the crib he rolls over on his tummy and tries to stand. If I try to stop him he wakes up mad. If I don't try to stop him, he wakes up confused and mad. The only thing that's (sort of) working is to nurse him into oblivion and ever so gently lay him down ... then hold my breath and cross my fingers. Oh, and he's also teething ... I can see six of them now, the top four are new within the last month or so, and I think there are one or two more struggling through the gums.

I had the bright idea yesterday to try once again to put himself to sleep in his crib ... as Moxie says, it's a recipe for frustration for both mom and baby when there are so many factors keeping the little munchkin from sleep. I have to remind myself to just endure and get what sleep I can. I'll try again at 10 months.

[caramama]

bree: I also have to nurse the baby into oblivion to put her down (or hubby rocks her into deep sleep). Otherwise, she rolls over and immediately tries to get up. But I know that more patience getting her into deep sleep will get her to stay.

anonforthis: I am not in a similar situation and have no real advice, but I just wanted to offer sympathy. I'm sorry that you are going through this, and I hope that it works out.

[wealhtheow]

How long should I give my two-month old tummy time each day? Right now I'm just waiting until he starts crying, but should I be trying to give him 10 minutes a day or something? I'm more of a "watch the baby, not the clock" person, but my husband is insisting he needs at least 8 minutes a day. Any suggestions?

[Shannon]

@wealtheow, I had a similar confusion about how much tummy time per day. You know how it is with a newborn, it seems like they are always either nursing or sleeping, and then you cram all the other stuff like diaper changes and baths and (maybe) your own personal needs in between. So, I was barely getting like 2 10-minute tummy time sessions a day ON A VERY GOOD DAY. I decided to ask the pediatrician about how much tummy time my kid should be getting. "Whenever you are with him," she said, adding, "You know, turn his head to one side for half an hour, and then turn it over every half hour." This statement seemed to imply that my kid should be on his stomach for at least an hour at a time. (Oh, and she assured me that he would start to like it after awhile.) I FREAKED out, as all new mothers do. There is even a PSA on the radio here where the mayor's wife tells you to call an 800 number if your kid can't hold up his head while on his stomach by the time he's 3 months old. I was sure I would be calling that hotline, with my kid getting under 2 hours of tummy time a day.

Anyway, obviously I didn't. He turned out fine with the limited tummy time he had. (BTW, I should add that the entire tummy time session was filled with screaming.)

[wealhtheow]

Thanks Shannon--he can already hold his head up, so I've felt okay being a little lax on tummy time. We used to be really good about ti when he was colicky--it would tire him out. But we put him on meds for reflux about 2 weeks ago, and since then there haven't been very many hour+ screaming sessions, so not as much tummy time. That's why I've just started leaving him on his tummy until he cries.

[Julie]

Big hugs to anonforthis.....that is a really tough situation. I have no experience with this, but my advice would be to listen to your heart. Everything else will fall into place. There is a right answer for you out there, so be still and wait for it to come to you.

[G's momma]

@wealhtheow
My daughter HATED tummy time as well and had a very sensitive stomach so we tended to avoid so that we wouldn't have to deal with all the spit up. However, I found a couple of ways to make it not so bad for her. We used an exercise ball for tummy time frequently. She seems to prefer the movement back and forth while she was on her tummy. I had her do tummy time while she was tummy to tummy with me and then I would sing to her. She rarely cried during this. When she was working on lifting her head we purchase a mirror for her but the big helper was the singing walking duck. It is the most annoying toy ever, but she loves it. You press a button and it walks and sings. We would only play it for her when she was on her tummy and she would gladly look up to watch it. It was also the first thing she crawled for and now she still likes it (at 14 months old) because she can turn it on herself. Really worth it. I would think that any moving toy your child was in to could be used the same way.

RE: Toy Presents
Ignored - The Amazing Animal Train, honestly she was never that into it but since we arrived home and she has her other toys she will rarely take it out. It is a really overpriced toy that my parents got her. She does like some of the animals but the actual train doesn't really interest her. The song is stuck in my head anyway though.

In love - Tea Set she will play with this for a very long time in all different ways. She likes to feed her animals (some from the animal train). She is also very into a deck of cards - what an easy toy. Dear Zoo is her current favorite book.

[sherry]

anonforthis: My 8.5-month-old has just learned to sit after standing. It took two weeks of standing -- maybe a little less -- before learning to sit. It's helped a lot.

[PrehistoricMama]

@G's momma: My DS loves "Dear Zoo", too! I think it's adorable. His new favorite book is "How Do Dinosaurs Say Good Night?". The illustrations are gorgeous and the writing is great, too.

IMO, a well-written and well-illustrated children's book is worth its weight in gold. I've read so many awful and disjointed children's books to him by now (and the ones he wants read over and over, ack) that I'm motivated to try and write my own.

Seriously...were the Madeleine author(s) on heavy drugs? No offense to any Madeleine lovers out there, but was the text translated poorly or something? Reading these makes me want to gouge my eyes out with a BAGUETTE. Must remember to donate these ASAP.

[PrehistoricMama]

...um...sorry about the off-topic hijacking! mea culpa.

[Lemon]

Anon, give yourself permission to freak and not feel guilty about your feelings. FWIW (and only b/c you asked) My first two are 13 months apart, and it was somewhat hard in the beginning... but mostly good. They are 2 & 3 now & although they do fight, they also entertain each other and play really well. My experience is that second babies are mellow compared to their first born siblings. And my husband & I also freaked out when we were first expecting Thing #2. We weren't sure if this was all just a big huge mistake. In my own case, I haven't had those thoughts in at least a year and a half, and I can't imagine life any other way. Hang in there!

[Missy]

RE: tummy time. I was extremely lax on this with all 3 of my kids. But what I finally realized I did all the time was lay the baby on top of me while I layed on the couch (or bed or floor). Good time for skin to skin time and lots of eye contact. Babies loved it. I loved it - by the time I got to baby number 3 it was the only "rest" I got!

[Lisa]

Christine - Glad you like Smugmug. We love it, with one caveat - you can't enable the auto-slideshow feature and the easily-download-hi-res-pix feature at the same time. Otherwise the best out there.

re toys: the big continuing hit is the play kitchen and food/pans/etc. Everything else is fun, and gets use, but we're talking HOURS of "mommy want a bite carrot muffin and mustard?"

re tummy time: T. hated it, and as a PP noted, it may have had something to do with reflux. Once we were actually putting him down on a flat surface (1st 3 months he slept only on me or in the bouncy chair), we went with side position, swaddle, and plenty of rolled towels to wedge him in there. Then he was able to roll at around 4 months (only one way, alas), and we did the spatula thing for a bit till he could roll back. Then it was on to a new sleep issue.

and I'd like to celebrate for a minute here among those who understand: Two bedtimes in a row now, T's nursed, pulled off, and SETTLED HIMSELF TO SLEEP. OK, it's taken like 40 minutes plus each time, but he's very determined to do it - just wants me to sit with him while he thrashes about and burrows in. I sense a new era dawning, one in which my breast need not be involved in bedtime. Halelujah.

[jessica]

Don't worry- toddlerhood fast approaches and should your baby ever happen to end up in your bed they will remain fast asleep while turning sideways, flipping over backwards, kicking you in the face, and then pushing you right out of bed.

You might not sleep through it, but they will.

:)

[Charisse]

@PrehistoricMama, I can't stand kids' books that don't scan! (And Madeline is one of the worst offenders, thought the pictures are cute.) I've actually hidden a couple of books when I couldn't stomach reading the lame language again. Makes you appreciate Good Night Moon which is really a nice little piece of literature. Also, I find all the Sendak stuff reads really well--there's a very rhythmic nonsense book called "A Very Special House" that isn't very well known that Mouse LOVED around 18 mos-2 years. Also, the most gorgeous and poetic girly book I've ever found is called "When the Sky Is Like Lace"--check it out if you get a chance, it's aimed a bit older but the pictures and words are so cool that it's good for any age. "do you know what it's like when it's bimulous and the sky is like lace? It doesn't happen often but when it does...KABOOM...and everything is strange-splendid and plum-purple". I still swear this book is a big part of why I write poetry!

(sorry for the OT as well)

[anonymousToday]

Well, I'm starting to feel guilty here. The age is foggy, but when my son first rolled over, he couldn't "right" himself again, making him miserable, sleeping perhaps 15 min at a time for two nights in a row... went to big box baby store out of desperation and bought a device that essentially makes the baby the hot dog in a bun, (the device is the bun), disabling baby's ability to roll over. (It is called a Sleep Positioner - type that in the big box backwards R baby store and you'll see it - about $12. He LOVED it, settled him quickly, bought a second one for him to use at naptime at daycare with great success. He used it for about a month. Fyi, he had plenty of tummy time in day, actually liked it, but that sleep thing we just weren't willing to 100% part with at that time. Were we wrong to use that device? He is almost three now, which is why my memory is foggy about exact ages we used the positioner, but I ask because I was considering getting it for a friend's baby shower. Thoughts?

[Julie]

We used the positioner with great success until Alex was old enough to roll over. I don't think it's bad to use it after, but we were told by our pediatrician to stop - and since he is our first, everything she said/says is practically gospel. To be honest, I now don't think it's that big of a deal and you could probably find a pediatrician who would agree with that. I think it's an excellent gift for a baby shower since no one seems to think about suggesting one until it's 2 AM and desperate for a solution NOW. When Alex was very little and still in the bassinette, I put the wedges close enough so we could prop him up on his side rather than flat on his back. I still think that might have contributed to his beautifully rounded head. But we did it b/c he simply preferred it.

So go for it.

[anon2]

anonforthis: hugs to you. I do know what that feels like. I don't have a second child, but for various reasons I very seriously considered lots of options when I got pregnant. I have no regrets at all, even though things aren't perfect. I decided to keep the baby because after thinking about it for a long time I decided that with a lot of help, I could do a good job raising a child. If I hadn't had a pretty good idea that I could do it, and wanted to, I think it would have been a different situation.

I was so afraid of having regrets. A wonderful devoutly catholic friend said to me that this choice should be made out of love, not fear. If you chose not to go forward with this, make sure that choice is out of love for your DS and your DH and yourself. And if you have the baby, same thing.

My best advice is to be completely honest with yourself and a trusted friend. Give yourself time to freak out and feel every single thing you are feeling, without editing or judging. When you think you are ready to decide, tell someone and then sit with that decision for a good while, until you know. And when you do make your decision, don't ever second-guess yourself. If you choose out of love, you will make the right choice.

So much sympathy and support coming your way!

[Shandra]

anonforthis - I would never presume to tell you what to do. If you do keep the baby though, call in your ENTIRE support system including asking for money so you can get house cleaners or takeout or whatever will make the transition points easier. One of my friends had her second this summer under very similar circumstances - and one of her parents is in palliative care. It's a terrible time in her life, although also joyful. We, her playgroup buddies, have tried to DO things to help and we are glad to.

[Heather]

My duaghter went through this when she was 6 months old. She learned to roll over at 5.5 months, but only started doing it in her crib at 6 months. There were two or three nights that were bad and we had to keep flipping her back over, but then she learned to sit up up from her belly by the third day and then to crawl by 6.5 months. She never actually learned to roll back onto her back. She would just sit up, maybe crawl around a little, sit back up and then fall over like a tree that was cut down (We have a video monitor). She has never given us trouble since in terms of not being able to get herself out of a certain postion. Even when she learned to stand she never had that fear of getting back down...she just fell back onto her butt. She does, however, wake up at least once per night and I am not sure why. She is 11 months old and supposedly isn't hungry (according to doctors and books), but will only go back to sleep if nursed or given formula in a sippy cup (never took a bottle)...water doesn't work. I am stumped...just waiting and hoping things will get better.

[z]

~anonforthis- i am now 24+ weeks pregnant with #2 and got pregnant when DS was 11 months. While we knew we wanted another kid the timing was unexpected and i was feeling much like you that we had barely survived the first year especially since the panda didn't start sleeping through the night until 14+ months. Anyhow i know it's a different situation b/c we knew that we wanted a 2nd one just the timing was off... but i wanted to say hugs, hugs and lots of hugs.

[Lady Godiva]

Sleeptime... well. My son started sleeping through the night rather randomly at about 3 months. Other than a few times with teething, he has been pretty consistent as long as we don't put him to bed until 11pm. Then He'll sleep until 930 or 10am. If we put him down earlier he wakes up at 3 am. I guess he's a night owl. LOL

We were never really able to do much tummy time, he would just scream and scream. But he's fine now and will sleep in any position. At 12 months, he doesn't walk yet, and frankly I am not encouraging it. =) I figure he'll do it when he's ready. He crab crawls though, which is really really funny to watch. One foot and one knee. He can turn on a dime and stand or sit as needed. And crawl faster than we can walk. LOL

And one funny sleep story - we were sleeping all together in the bed, at a relatives, in a full size. Hubby ended up diagonal (he's really tall), kidlet spreadeagled about halfway through the night, leaving me about a 5 in end, that was triangle shaped. Well, he started turning and kicking, and actually kicked my off the bed! ROFL It was kinda funny. Ok. Maybe you had to be there. =)

As for toys, his favorite is a set of plain color-sorting shapes that fit on a wooden pegs, that my mom brought from when I was a baby. So they are over 40 years old. He loves playing with them. =) Picks a different color every day for some reason.

[reallyveryanon]

anonforthis -

I 100% do not want another child, always wanted either none or, after much soul-searching, just one. Family history of cancer, never been on the pill, only used barrier method contraceptives. I believe in the legal right for women to **end a pregnancy but do NOT want to be faced with that choice myself. As a result,I have totally avoided, uhm, "penetrating relations" with DH since baby was born... baby is now more than 2 yrs... DH will not have his simple operation, I recently asked my Dr about IUDs but she doesn't do them so my research stalled.

**PS: I don't know how to say that without angering people... please look at my message; not trying to persuade anyone of views here, just stating mine...

[Susannah]

reallyveryanon, no judgment here. How sad that we haven't figured out a way to give men more options for birth control, and healthier/safer/easier ones for women. May this year bring you many hugs, a good gyn, and/or a motivated husband!

[miznoire]

Milestones: In our case, they always had an effect on our daughter's sleep. When she first learned to roll over, she would do just as people here are describing. When she was trying to learn to crawl, she would wake herself at night and try to crawl in the crib. My favorite example? Wait until some of your little ones start talking! We would have 2 or 3 hour monologues at night! I was so excited about the speech development that it struck me as "cute". However, I found that I was almost as sleep deprived during this stage as I had been when she was a newborn because I could never sleep through the late night soliliquays!

These phases pass as suddenly as they begin. Once the new skill is no longer a novelty and becomes old hat to the child, they stop the middle of the night workout sessions and go back to sleeping again...until the next milestone happens!

On a more serious note, to anon and veryanon: I am a midlife mom with one child. My husband and I really mean it when we tell people that we only plan to have one child. We do not feel we have the resources for more. This is a very legitimate view, although many people want to brush that aside and tell you that you "HAVE TO" have more than one or that "Money doesn't matter"" (even when they seem to have plenty of that resource and couldn't comprehend what it would be like to have to really budget stringently, etc).

I am not saying that I would not have the baby if I became pregnant again. However, I recognize this as a very serious concern because I share it. So, I will echo the posters who tell you to own your true feelings on this and don't apologize for your situation.

I was only one day "late" last month (generally, I am one of those people who can set the clock by my periods!) and I suffered a long day of silent sould searching. Had I actually been pregnant, I would be faced with a lot of candid conversations with my spouse, a real look at how our lives would have to change dramatically and a lot of other factors.

My spouse is also not keen on the simple operation...and he is the most reasonable of men. I don't know what it is about this procedure that freaks guys out so much. However, the responsibility of birth control always seems to rest at the feet of us women. Please look for a new gyn, reallyveryanon. In this day and age there must be someone else who practices in your community/network who can present you with better options. And, keep hammering away at your husband. He needs to either assist in this matter or make himself more open to the fact that "mistakes happen".

[Julie]

There is no "right" or "wrong" way....only *your* way. That is what is so wonderful about this site. There really is no judgement on choices other parents are making because we all understand that parenthood is *so* individualized. And while others may not feel the same, or make the same parenting decisions that you make, I think we all honor, respect, and value the choices that are made.

Good luck to those who are struggling with such large issues. It's a long journey, isn't it?

[Melanie]

I unfortunately don't have time tonight to read all the comments, so my apologies if this has been posted by someone else... but here's what we did when our son went through this: http://www.parenthacks.com/2007/10/bath-towel-bols.html
It took a couple of months, now he can (and does) roll from back to front to back etc. He pinwheels around in all sorts of directions and it's always a guessing game, what position you'll find him in, in the morning. He still doesn't love being on his belly, but he can sleep that way sometimes. Best of luck with it!

[Simone]

Sorry so late on the post...a little behind from the weekend!

On the rolling thing, my son did the same thing around the same age. We spent a few nights as "spatulas" and eventually he got better at controlling his movements (or at least coming to terms with being on his stomach). Around 6 months he actually preferred sleeping on his stomach, so I think it was just a matter of getting the rolling to be familiar to him, and not so "reflexive."

@anon for today: I was not in the same situation, but there was a time when we only wanted one child. We changed our minds sort of at the "last minute" and the life that seemed so odd to us then (2 kids) now seems to be natural. My point is, that it may be unimaginable, but if you have this baby you might find yourself in a year with a change of heart. (And don't feel guilty if it takes a year!) Like the others said, allow yourself the range of motions you are feeling, and as for your husband, remember that you are a team, and can be each other's strongest allies. Be there for each other, be honest, and yes, also seek all the support you can from other moms, friends, etc. Hugs to you!!!!

OK, so Christmas toys? Is that Amazing Animal train the one that starts "hop on board the animal train...?" Got that one from grandparents. Yikes! Is it just me, or does it sound like "cannonballs" everytime she says "animals?" She's like a bad cabaret singer! Hits are the Vtech Kidizoom camera and chest of pirate clothes/accessories from JoAnn. 4 year-old loves it!!! Don't think the baby cares about ANYTHING he got, so I'm grateful much of his loot was clothing.

[anon in response]

anon for this, I have not been quite in your shoes, but I do know a very few people who have, some casually, one pretty well (though for her, it was the first child she really didn't want to have).

The people who have said they regretted the addition of a second child, or the birth of even the first, typically are dealing with many personal and relationship issues, carrying deep wounds, or the child has serious health problems. Usually all three. Just one of those usually doesn't cause the additional child to be a crisis. Only you would know if you have the first two risk factors.

The rest all adapt, and then enjoy it. Things aren't pretty for a while, and they have to accept and grieve the things that change in their lives, but they're also able to see the joys, and then would never go back. And one of the people I know who really wasn't happy with the experience became happy with it once the child was older - it was just babies that were the problem, not children.

Good luck deciding.

[hedra]

@anon for this - My mom's quote on the subject of more kids than you really want (she had seven, the first six were surprises, the last one was planned, long story) (I'm repeating myself, having posted this before):

Two questions were often asked of her: 1) Are you sorry you had all these kids, and 2) If you could go back and do it again, would you?

Her answers changed over time. When we were all ankle-biters, she said she wasn't sorry, but no, she wouldn't have so many if she could do it over. When we were teens, she said she WAS sorry, and no WAY would she ever do this again. When the last of us (of the 6 who made it to adulthood) was grown, she said she was not at all sorry, and she would do every blessed second, all the worry, heartbreak, fear, anger, hard work, sleepless nights, EVERYTHING, again. Everything. It was more than worth it.

The point being that parenting *children* is a short-term, if somewhat interminable-in-the-process experience. But being the parent of *adult* children lasts the rest of your life. The goal isn't 'having kids', the goal is 'having adults with whom you have a family relationship'. The relationships my mom has vary dramatically, both between individuals and over time. One can go AWOL for a year or more with no contact, move without forwarding addresses, etc. Another moved a thousand miles so his child could be *near* family (including her), after having spent years being somewhere between bitter/estranged and reluctantly loving. Some relationships are close and easy, some are distant and challenging, and you do not know which you'll get, even doing your best. But my mom also wouldn't give those up, either.

I use that as my measure, instead of what life is like right this second. At the same time, I don't live in the future - reality is now. I just avoid measuring the value of the experience by the day (and sometimes months). Some moments count, yes. But not the day-to-day young-kids-being-themselves mommy-and-daddy-are-wiped stuff.

I also know someone who wasn't really happy with having a child, but also stopped being unhappy about it over time. Maybe that's just sanity - if you're keeping the child, you have to live with that choice, and living with it leaves you having to choose whether to be happy about it or not. Happy is better, even if it was not what was preferred initially. But over time, it has become clear that she really IS happy with it. It's still hard work sometimes, but I don't think she'd ever in a million years go back.

My answer still isn't an answer, I suppose. It's probably more like 'hedra's personal way of not losing her mind any given day'. But maybe somehow it will help.

Hmm. Maybe slicing it this way is better - we had dreams of what we'd do with our lives before we had kids. Kids derailed those dreams entirely. The dreams were lovely. And over time, we've realized that the entire exact configuration of the dream wasn't what we were really wanting. It was the kind of challenges, experiences, and context that those dreams provided. There are other things that provide those same core experiences. We both love horses, and had planned on owning and breeding them. We didn't figure horses would be much part of our lives after kids, though. But unexpectedly, child two is totally horse obsessed. So, horses back in our lives. Maybe we still won't be breeding them (expensive proposition!), but the other things that horses would bring are coming back into our lives anyway. There's more than one path to the heart of your dreams, and some of those might have kids as the way TO the dreams. No guarantees, ever. But not an utter loss of hope, either.

Good luck, I know it is probably totally overwhelming right now.