The people have spoken. From now on I'll separate posts. Special thanks to Rachel for emailing me to bring it up, because I honestly never would have thought of it.
Product review of Cranium Bloom toys below.
The whole nursing/sex dreams question from last week reminded me of something I read years ago (I can't remember where, for which I apologize) which was a stat that mothers who breastfed had more sex (by a lot) in the first year post-partum than mothers who formula fed. I had no idea why that would be when I read that stat, but it stands to reason that since breastfeeding produces oxytocin, which is the same hormone released during orgasm, moms with more oxytocin racing through their systems would be more interested in sex.
(Also, do I need to mention that nursing doesn't inspire sexy feelings toward the baby? It seems pretty obvious to me, but I'm worried someone's going to find this post and wig out about it without having any understanding of how nursing produces hormones so it's a natural physical reaction.)
I wonder how that interacts with the feeling that many of us who've nursed have had at different times, which is that we felt "touched out," or just tired of someone else wanting something from us that involved our bodies.
Sexy hormones vs. overwhelming emotional responsibilities? My suspicion is that sleep is what tips the balance, and that mothers who are getting enough* sleep feel less touched out and have more sexy hormones.
And I have no personal experience with formula feeding exclusively, but suspect that the intersections are probably the same.
Any thoughts you'd like to share on that?
* and by "enough" I really mean "maybe 60% of the sleep you got before having a kid, but enough that you can remember your middle name on any given day."
I nursed for 15 months, and didn't get a decent night's sleep the entire time. I'll be honest, I would have been thrilled to not hvae sex for the entire 15 months. I was completely touched out.
Posted by: Jojo | January 21, 2008 at 12:41 PM
Wait. You mean, I have a middle name? Two kids=four straight years of interrupted sleep. Since number 3 is on the way, I am facing two more years...Don't ask how this one was conceived b/c I agree with pp, I could completely go without.
Posted by: Thia | January 21, 2008 at 01:07 PM
It took about 8 months for sex not to be excruciating for me and a full year for it to become a regular and even occasionally pleasurable experience. I definitely agree that it's got a lot to do with the amount of sleep. When she started sleeping earlier in the evening without those annoying every-half-hour wakeups, I got some "me" time and felt like a new person!
I still get pretty crappy sleep most nights - about 7 hours broken two or three times - and we nurse a LOT still at 16 months. But something definitely shifted at about 12 or 13 months.
I have a hard time believing that anyone could have LESS sex than we did those first 8 months though! :)
Posted by: Laura | January 21, 2008 at 01:43 PM
I suspect there's even more factors involved. But those are likely to be part of it.
And woo, sleep is a serious part of it. Fortunately I figured that out early. Oh, yeah, sleep, the new foreplay.
DH also used to quote to me from some article he read, that 'sleep is the new sex' once you have kids. That is, it is the thing you bargain for, schedule for, look forward to most in the week/future/dim future, try to sneak in, would go the extra mile for a chance at, etc. Anything people do to get sex when they're single is a close match to what we'd do for sleep after kids... flattery, trading favors, being extra nice... though I don't think it would work if I got him drunk first. ;)
Posted by: hedra | January 21, 2008 at 01:49 PM
Anyone wonder if breastfeeding moms are more prone to trading sex for a chance to nap? ;)
Makes for that awkward pause when donating blood later.... 'have you ever traded sex for drugs or money?' ... 'um, drugs or money? No. Not for drugs or money.'
Posted by: hedra | January 21, 2008 at 01:54 PM
From what I've read (and am currently feeling!), breastfeeding brings on a decreased libido. Kudos to those who are having sex (or more of it) while breastfeeding. As far as sex goes, I've been feeling zilch, nada, NOTHING! It's weird to feel so asexual. Needless to say, while my husband fully supports me breasfeeding our baby, he will be very excited to start having more sex again as will I! :)
Posted by: Janet | January 21, 2008 at 01:55 PM
-I definitely think sleep is both the new sex and affects "feeling sexy" as my husband and I call it.
-I wonder if C-section/vaginal birth plays a role? I had a C-section and so was not sore or weird "down there." I have not had the pain or recovery of an epeisiotomy or stretched-outness (I guess I'm not even sure if that happens.... I do have a weird scar that is still numb 8 months later. I do breast-feed. My sex drive is pretty much fine. We aren't all that frequent. I do find that when we are both awake enough and in the mood, we are better at seizing the moment, so to speak, because who knows when the emperor will wake and need to be attended to.
Posted by: Anon for this one | January 21, 2008 at 01:57 PM
I so love to come here and laugh about lack of sleep and what it does to you and how I fantasize about it. No one in my real life wants to hear any more about it, but I would like to think about sleep all day.
My bug is 8.5 months, and I don't feel touched out yet. My main problem with sex is that it takes away from possible sleep time. It's hard to contemplate sex and sleep simultaneously and get real excited about sex.
Posted by: sherry | January 21, 2008 at 02:01 PM
My husband would be horrified if I posted this on my own blog, but since he does not read Ask Moxie.....
I am a breastfeeding mother of a 6 month old and I also have a son who just turned 2(I nursed him until he was 15 mos). I also co-sleep. I can report that my husband and I are having loads more sex AFTER having had kids than before. I suspect it is as you say - the hormones from breastfeeding and the fact that except for the first 2-3 weeks of having a newborn, I am rarely sleep-deprived. Sure, co-sleeping makes it dicey trying to find a new location, but it also makes it SPICEY. As if we are sneaking around in our own home. My husband isn't complaining, that is for sure.
Posted by: cagey | January 21, 2008 at 02:07 PM
Maybe the 'a lot' being referenced is being compared exponentially to zero? Because then that half dozen times you did it the first year DOES look like a lot : )
Posted by: Anon | January 21, 2008 at 02:07 PM
Hey Moxie,
That study is interesting, but I would be surprised if oxytocin is the answer. I happily recommend to you and your readers the blog, Hug the Monkey, http://www.hugthemonkey.com/, all about oxytocin. She writes that oxytocin is released at orgasm and lives in your system as a part of the post-coital high. It is when oxytocin drops that the sex drive returns, and there is interest in Doing It again. So I would extrapolated that lots of oxytocin release during breastfeeding would actually suppress sex drive.
Posted by: kinky | January 21, 2008 at 02:08 PM
Sorry if this is off-topic, but I don't understand something about co-sleeping. How do you make sure your baby doesn't crawl off the bed, if you aren't in it with her at all times? (Say you're in another part of your house making out ;) I don't co-sleep, but this is something I've been wondering about. Does it mean you have to go to sleep when your baby does?
Posted by: sherry | January 21, 2008 at 02:46 PM
Hi Moxie,
I don't know about the oxytocin stuff, but when my son was a baby, the first year wasn't about a lot of action between the sheets, even though he was breastfed. Not that it was completely non existant, but hardly anything I can remember with an Oooohhhh...
It wasn't even the lack of sleep (my son was an easy baby and slept right through the night) or any vaginal delivery effects. But between breasts that inflated and then deflated at regular intervals, and nipples that went numb (Numb. Like touch-and-can't-feel-a-damn-thing numb.)for the year that I nursed, the sex was hardly anything to write home about.
The good news however (wouldn't want all the young moms here thinking life gets completely asexual and stays that way - it doesn't) is that since I stopped nursing, the sex has been great. Not sure why, but it's actually better than before my son was born. Miraculous!
Posted by: PreSchool Mama | January 21, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Sherry
I think co sleeping is when your child shares your bed - whether you go to bed together, or you put her to sleep first and then go join her. I am not big on labeling - it just seemed like the perfect choice for us, although at the time I wasn't even aware that it was called co sleeping (if that makes any sense!)
Our son slept with us, and he was a sound sleeper, so there was hardly any worry that he'd wake up, and try to find us. When he was a baby, we never made out anywhere else - we just shifted him to one end of the bed, and made some space for us.
Posted by: PreSchool Mama | January 21, 2008 at 03:03 PM
we didn't formula feed, and i'm not imagining that feeding with a bottle is any picnic, either, but i do remember not giving a rats ass about anything, least of all sex, during those first 6-9 months or so i was so damn tired. i would have traded ANYTHING for sleep at that stage.
to be fair, my husband and i met in college, and it would be impossible to compare our sex drives/frequency then to what it is now, 12 years later. i'm not saying we're dried out old bores, but it's different (in many, *MANY* ways better) from the "i'm so hot for you 24/7 and also young and possibly under the influence let's do it right now so what if we're not in a bed i just can't wait" phase. maybe if you were still in your "honeymoon phase" with your partner and also breastfeeding that would be the case. but for us, the most expressive physical way to share our love at that stage of infancy was sleep.
i often felt as though at least moms who had kids willing to take a bottle had the option of their partners taking a feeding shift and giving them the opportunity to get more that 2-3+ hours of sleep at a time. and maybe a 3 hour sleep, then awake to feed, then another 3 hours, instead of the "every hour on the hour" BS that we went through for what seemed like FOREVER. but i would venture a guess that the grass is always greener in a way, too. oh how i am looking forward to doing this all over again.
someone assure me that the second baby is easier that the first. it's all i have right now!
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 21, 2008 at 03:11 PM
Alright, I'll admit it. We've been having a lot of sex lately, and we are still in the first year and I'm breastfeeding. (In fact, we stayed up late the other night, picking sex over sleep! It was crazy!) I want to address a couple of the potential factors.
Sleep really does seem to affect it for us, and at time periods when we are getting more sleep, we are definitely more likely to Do It. Definitely part of that is the energy levels that go up when we are getting more sleep. But also I wonder if this isn't related to less sleep = more nursing (at least on my side, not hubby's). Because I seem to be in the mood much more now that I'm nursing less. When I'm up half the night nursing through a growth spurt or teething, I get "touched out" and just want sleep and space.
Maybe the nursing less making me in the mood more has to do with the oxytocin drops mentioned by PP. I didn't read the site or articles about oxytocin, but I know for me, if we are doing it regularly, we are more likely to keep doing it regularly. Maybe that is because you get used to the oxytocin highs and when it goes down, you want to feel it again. Which would make sense with nursing, because if I am used to getting the oxytocin from nursing, then when I'm not nursing as much maybe I'm more likely to want more oxytocin and get it from sex? I hope that made sense.
In addition, I'm also much more likely to want to do it when I'm ovulating. In fact, my sex drive seemed to come back in a huge way once I started getting my periods back. But I was this way pre-pregnancy, so I don't know if it is different for other people.
As an aside, I'm much more likely to be in the mood if I'm reading a romance novel (unless it's poorly written and cliche, because then I just don't read it). I read a statistic once that said something like women who regularly read romance novels have on average 52% more sex than those who don't.
hedra - Love the "sleep is the new sex" analogy! It's so true!
Posted by: caramama | January 21, 2008 at 03:25 PM
caramama- ITA, we find that sex begets sex, in the sense that it's easy to let it slide fro a while, not prioritize it, put it off, etc., then have it and be like "oh yeah, that *is* awesome- hmm, lets do that again tomorrow", then go through a phase of doing it a lot again.
i also found that i was happier/more interested /more willing to do it after pnut was sleeping 4-6 hour stretches and eating solids and not *just* nursing. i remember being way more interested when i was ovulating, too (oooh, mother nature, you're a crafty one).
i'm more likely to be in the mood if i've had a glass of wine. or if my husband took care of dinner/and or cleaned up afterwards. if sleep is the new sex, then housework is the new foreplay (when not done by me!)
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 21, 2008 at 03:34 PM
I breastfeed for two years and my libido was non-existent the whole time. Even after I was getting decent sleep, it really took a huge effort to get in the mood and the slightest thing would get me out of the mood. A week or two after I weaned, it came back, which was a huge relief for me, because somewhere in the back of my mind I started to wonder if I was broken forever. I guess it's different for everyone.
Posted by: geeky | January 21, 2008 at 03:55 PM
I totally relate to pnuts mama's comment that 1) sex begets sex. It's like we're reminded, "oh yeah, we *like* this, and should do it more." And also, 2), that I am more willing to do it if I've been "wooed." Of course, the definition of wooing has now shifted to "husband taking care of chores/other tedious items on the to-do list." I also think you nailed it with the idea of the kids cooperating, insomuchas that if everyone is sleeping well, eating well, healthy, and generally getting along, my world tends to feel lighter and thus, so does my mood and willingness to give elsewhere (namely to my husband).
Janet, I'm with you...those times I'm feeling "asexual" are weird. I nursed longer with my first than with my second, and have now been exclusively formula-feeding for quite some time. But still, even though I feel like my hormones have leveled out, there are times when I feel like a zombie (sexually speaking). I had a C-section with my second, but mostly because of the "damage" done with my first, which makes me a little self-consious. I have noticed, too, that since I've lost more weight, I've been in the mood more, so maybe there's something to the subliminal self-esteem thing. Any way you slice it, I'd like to *want* it more, but want is the operative word.
Posted by: Simone | January 21, 2008 at 04:04 PM
I totally agree with pnuts mama - housework is the new foreplay! lol!
I just wanted to add that one of the ways we've endeavored to get the baloney pony out of the stable more often is when Dh goes to bed at the same time as I do, we go to bed together naked. I find that after about 15 minutes of simply cuddling skin-to-skin without getting pawed, gnawed, etc. puts me in the mood way faster than any kind of foreplay that involves groping and squeezing.
Posted by: Laura | January 21, 2008 at 04:05 PM
In the first couple of weeks after birth, I actually felt really horny. Hormones?? Seeing hubby as caring and capable father?? Who knows, but I was way too sore 'down below' to do anything about it.
Now, 5 months after DD was born, I am probably at my least horniest. I definitely think it's the lack of sleep. Plus, who can feel sexy when their legs need shaving, their roots need doing, their eye brows need plucking and they wander around the house oblivious to the fact their dripping tits are hanging out? NOT SEXY (although the hubby is still well up for it - bless him). Bottom line; if I'm in bed, I want to sleep, it would be plain rude to use the time for something so unecessary as sex! That's how I feel for now.
Now, CO SLEEPING logistics. I kinda fell into co sleeping. Before the birth, I had the nursery all set out with the moses basket waiting for my sleeping baby - Ha ha - that didn't last long!!! I soon discovered that if I nursed lying down, the baby would fall fast asleep and I didn't have to move. The minute she woke to feed again, I just attached her. I've never had to deal with a crying baby in the middle of the night. Eventually, I turned her cot into a side car and would nurse her and roll away when she went to bed and I would join her when she woke at about 10:30pm.
Sounds idyllic. However, in the last month, I have been reconsidering it. I am woken whenever she tosses and turns and not just to nurse. When she latches on now, she doesn't want to let go (I tried 25 Pantley Pull Off's (or whatever they're called) the other night and she still rooted frantically). I actually get quite uncomfortable sleeping on my side all night.
So the other night, I slept in a different room and the baby slept a lot better without me there - only 2 wakings that I needed to attend to - a VAST improvement. I think we disturb each others' sleep. Tonight, we have put her in her own room to see how it goes. I may resent having to get out of bed to feed her in the middle of the night.
Posted by: sam | January 21, 2008 at 04:06 PM
Major breastfeeding going on here these days (DS2 is six months) and very little sleep OR sex. I love Hedra's point about sleep being the new sex - so true here. As soon as both kids are down for the night, I can't wait to go to sleep myself. If I get a "booty call," (DH wants to Do It) I honestly am trying to get through it as fast as possible so that I can get to the sleep part ASAP.
Also agreeing with whoever mentioned ovulating as a major libido factor. I definitely noticed this between kids, during the brief amount of time I was ovulating before getting pregnant again, that the week or so leading up to ovulation, I actually would be the one chasing down DH - a real novelty around here! Especially after 2+ years of nursing and having very little interest. Now I'm right back in that place again. SIGH
Posted by: Anon for this topic! | January 21, 2008 at 04:06 PM
In the first couple of weeks after birth, I actually felt really horny. Hormones?? Seeing hubby as caring and capable father?? Who knows, but I was way too sore 'down below' to do anything about it.
Now, 5 months after DD was born, I am probably at my least horniest. I definitely think it's the lack of sleep. Plus, who can feel sexy when their legs need shaving, their roots need doing, their eye brows need plucking and they wander around the house oblivious to the fact their dripping tits are hanging out? NOT SEXY (although the hubby is still well up for it - bless him). Bottom line; if I'm in bed, I want to sleep, it would be plain rude to use the time for something so unecessary as sex! That's how I feel for now.
Now, CO SLEEPING logistics. I kinda fell into co sleeping. Before the birth, I had the nursery all set out with the moses basket waiting for my sleeping baby - Ha ha - that didn't last long!!! I soon discovered that if I nursed lying down, the baby would fall fast asleep and I didn't have to move. The minute she woke to feed again, I just attached her. I've never had to deal with a crying baby in the middle of the night. Eventually, I turned her cot into a side car and would nurse her and roll away when she went to bed and I would join her when she woke at about 10:30pm.
Sounds idyllic. However, in the last month, I have been reconsidering it. I am woken whenever she tosses and turns and not just to nurse. When she latches on now, she doesn't want to let go (I tried 25 Pantley Pull Off's (or whatever they're called) the other night and she still rooted frantically). I actually get quite uncomfortable sleeping on my side all night.
So the other night, I slept in a different room and the baby slept a lot better without me there - only 2 wakings that I needed to attend to - a VAST improvement. I think we disturb each others' sleep. Tonight, we have put her in her own room to see how it goes. I may resent having to get out of bed to feed her in the middle of the night.
Posted by: sam | January 21, 2008 at 04:08 PM
Oops. don't know why I posted twice. Can we blame sleep and sex deprivation for this one. Duh!!
Posted by: sam | January 21, 2008 at 04:14 PM
pnuts mama - Hubby doing housework is the new foreplay!!! I couldn't agree more! And I hear the second kids is easier. Don't worry. I'm sure it'll be fine. (Did that help?)
Oh, and it wasn't until after the Pumpkin was at least 6 months old that I got any libido back (since prior to pregnancy). So definitely not much happening in the first 6 months.
After reading sam's comment, I also wanted to add that my husband is a huge part of why I have my libido back. Even with hairy legs, lumpy body, sensitive C-section scar, barely touchable nipples and all the other stuff going on now, he makes me feel sexy. I think if he so much as flinched at any of it, my sex drive would go straight into the toilet. But bless is his soul, he still thinks (or at least acts like) I'm the sexiest woman in the world and nothing looks better on me than frumpy nursing PJs! Add to that the nights he makes dinner and bathes the baby, and he's is the sexiest man on the planet.
Lemon - Totally off today's topic, but I was happy to help on Friday. I know of some other really good message boards with intelligent, helpful information/people. You can email me if you are interested.
Posted by: caramama | January 21, 2008 at 04:30 PM
8 month old. B/F twice a day. Plenty of sleep. Absolutely no desire whatsoever. Even if Brad Pitt offered. I'm actually completely fine with no sex ever again, except that I want another baby. Hubby doesn't complain either (at least not out loud). Yah, I guess we're weird.
Posted by: re | January 21, 2008 at 04:37 PM
This is really interesting--I'm not sure if I ever connected sex drive to any of these factors (i.e., the bf-ing and the whole oxytocin thing)--instead connecting it to "where we are in our lives" (like pnuts mama says--she puts it really well--about how different their lives were years ago vs. now)... I CAN say that the best sex I ever had, I remember it clearly, was about 2 months after Younger was born. But this was probably because we'd only had sex maybe 3 times in the preceding 4 months or so. I'm also interested in the "housework as foreplay" and I'm glad to see it discussed here--I always feel like if I try to talk about that it comes across as some mean "withholding sex until he does the laundry" thing, which is not the case... It's just seeing him pull his weight makes me much more amenable to having sex. But it's not a punishment/reward thing, it just is what it is.
Posted by: rudyinparis | January 21, 2008 at 05:04 PM
Let's see now, we're 10 months into the second child, and up to sex about twice a week. This is far below our pre-baby sex life. Probably half the time, one of us has to convince the other that sex is better than sleep sometimes, but I think it's worth it to maintain that connection. Would I like to have sex more often? Sure. Would I like to get more sleep (I currently get 7 hoursish - frequently interrupted by nursing) - absolutely.
FWIW, our first was exclusively formula fed, and our second is exclusively breastfed. I haven't noticed a big difference between our sex life during the first babyhood vs now. I think it'sall about how much sleep we get - our first was an awful sleeper and we were just too exhausted to even think about sex most of the time.
pnuts mama - the second is definitely easier. it's like riding a bike :-)
re cosleeping - we have side rails on the bed so the baby can't just roll out. If he wakes up, he either cries or talks to himself and we hear him over the baby monitor. He seems to know when we're having sex and wake up. I can't count the number of times one of us has had to dash naked from the guest room to rock him back to sleep. ah, good times.
Posted by: sue | January 21, 2008 at 05:12 PM
Adding my data to the mix. I breastfeed between 2 and 4 times a day depending on whether I'm at work or not. I've been feeling dead to the world because of sleep problems (either the kiddo - 13 months old - waking at night or my own brand of insomnia) and probably mild depression. And I have no, zero, zip desire for sex. In the same boat as re, in that I want another baby too, so unless immaculate conception is on the table, it won't be happening any time soon. I've definitely started to wonder if my sex drive is permanently broken. It was never high to start with, but higher than zero. Or negative, as the case may be. Sigh.
Posted by: also anon for now | January 21, 2008 at 05:17 PM
I no longer nurse...haven't for over a year. I can't tell you if my lack of interest in sex while nursing was because of nursing or the Don't You Touch Me Too Factor.
I have never had an out of control libido (used to judge "those" girls in high school/college, now am secretly admiring them)...maybe all those years of being single and *making do*. I DO know that for the first time in a LONG time I got one of those Need-It twinges the other day. My husband was overjoyed....and I've never seen him move so fast in my life. Honestly I think it was because of the mood enhancing of t-tapp. I just have been feeling different lately and that is the only thing I've changed (read: haven't changed diet, job, house, husband, child, or dogs).
@also anon for now....really I've been there. It will come back. Maybe only to level 1 or 2.....but still better than zero.
I wish mine were higher though - I think it would solve some of the stress/miscommunication/jumping to conclusions/making assumptions in my marriage mostly b/c sex RELAXES people so they don't care about small stuff. So much.
Posted by: Julie | January 21, 2008 at 05:50 PM
Oh man, I always hate this topic because breastfeeding (three kids, so for five years now I've either been pregnant and/or nursing almost completely that whole time) hasn't had any effect on my libido. I want it almost as much as pre-babies (every day ideally, every other day would be fine). The only issue I've had with breastfeeding is that I don't like having my breasts/nipples touched nearly as much as before: that's where I feel "touched out" (the few months in there I was neither pregnant or nursing I liked it just fine). Everything else though is super. Doesn't matter if he's helping out or not, or if I'm getting enough sleep or not, doesn't matter at all. I hate this coming up because it seems almost all the other women are low libido at this point and I don't know what to say, because, yep, no effect, want it all the time.
The issue is that my husband, who was equally high-libido pre-kids, is the one with the low libido now. SIGH. He said it's because he feels stressed by work/providing for the family/etc. I understand. And when he's in the mood, it's fine. But ugh, it sucks. Once a week is lucky; more like twice, three times a month... My theory's that it's more the emotional effect than the physical, since it's not my hormones causing the disparate sex drives... maybe it's the disconnect between the two of you after there's more than two of you, now. That or it's sympathy libido loss kinda like sympathy pregnancy weight. ;P
Posted by: anon | January 21, 2008 at 06:27 PM
I definitely find that sex begets sex, and cosleeping means hot sex (sometimes fast) in other parts of the house. But my libido overall is lower than it used to be and I think for me it really does relate to being touched out. My son tends to sleep from midnight-3 with his hands in my hair or pajamas, so.
For the 'falling out of bed' question we put our bed on the floor (not so far to fall, although we still have a boxspring) and in the corner, and then we made a little barrier with pillows along one end. My son's never fallen out. (Although we sidecarred the crib until he was one.)
I will admit that once or twice he has been on the outside edge while we were sleeping (to nurse on that side) and I have caught him sliding off. Weird mother grab instincts there those two times - once I swear I was deep asleep, but the minute he slid a bit, I had him. Not entirely recommended though, but in 1.5 years, two near misses are ok. We also have NO sharp things anywhere near the bed. :)
A rail would solve this but then I feel locked into my bed and that does not work for me.
He's 2.5 now and has spontaneously moved to his own bed, which is a twin mattress on the floor. He doesn't roll out of it despite no barriers at all; he seems to have learned via those two near misses... so far. Pretty hard to break a collarbone from a single mattress height though so, onwards we go.
Posted by: Shandra | January 21, 2008 at 08:39 PM
Sadly, my relationship with sex has just gone sooooo far down the tubes since my son came along, 13 months ago.
At first I thought it was just a physical issue. Until my girl bits FINALLY stopped hurting and I FINALLY got some natural lubrication back...and I still wasn't enjoying sex.
Then I thought it might be a sleep issue, until we got our son sleeping through 6-7 hours a night...and I still wasn't enjoying sex.
Then I thought it might be a "touched out" issue. It still might be, but the kid is nursing only 3-4 times a day now...and I'm still not enjoying sex.
Two things come immediately to mind. First of all, I've still got 40 lbs. of "baby weight" on my bones. And though my *wonderful* husband is attracted to me at any size, I hate being naked. Makes me not-so-crazy about having sex, you know?
And secondly, my cesarean surgery - which was unexpected, unnecessary, and mildly traumatic. It's very hard to have a good relationship with your sex organs after something like that.
I don't know. I'm doing all the right things - eating well, exercising, hitting the flax oil, etc. But I probably need to seek counseling to overcome this cesarean thing before I have any real interest in sex again. But I am afraid it might not work, and then what? I used to like sex, I used to wear my husband out. Now I grit my teeth every time he touches me. I go through the motions, but it's not the same.
Posted by: stacy | January 21, 2008 at 08:50 PM
Man, who are you ladies who want it everyday?!? ;) Can you share a little? ;)
My DD is 20 months, most nights waking every 1-2 hours (a nurse down most of those wakings) plus about 4-5 nursings during the day. Tired? A bit. Touched out? A smidge. ;)
I read recently that a marriage that sees sex less than 10 times a year is considered a sexless marriage. We've been there since pregnancy. I think 10 times TOTAL since the first trimester morning sickness hit. =P Thankfully I have a very understanding DH. His only hope is the week leading up to ovulation now that my cycle has started up again. Otherwise, the ol' libido is in the tank.
Posted by: Lisa in Canada | January 21, 2008 at 09:13 PM
@rudyinparis- yeah, i don't mean "if you don't load the dishwasher i won't have sex with you" or some kind of trading favors for *favors* thing- absolutely, ITA that it's more of the seeing him do something that i'd normally be the one doing that just ignites a spark in me- the attraction factor i guess, or just what strikes me as sexy now, more than just the visual or sense clues that it used to be.
every so often i remember the days when it was crazy and carefree- and that can get my libido going- it can be fun to re-play old scenarios and see where it leads. i do think though, that in most ways, there is a new way that i connect to my body (and his) in a deeply physical way now that i'm a mama that i didn't have a clue about back then. so in that way, i figure, we've gained and not lost.
is there a way to discuss re-igniting our personal spark by doing our own *personal intervention* to get started without attracting a creepy element? IME, it can make the difference between "bleh..." and "eh?"
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 21, 2008 at 10:48 PM
I think the "sex for housework" thing is not at all about rewards, giving or witholding sex based on how many chores a husband does. I think it's more about him understanding what you *need most* at that time and responding in a loving and caring way. Back in the day, maybe what I *needed most* was for him to pick me up from work and whisk me off for a fun happy hour with appetizers, and then out to Hollywood to listen to a fun band play until 2 AM.....guaranteed good sex that night. Now, I'd knee him in the balls before we could even get on the freeway if he tried to drag me out to Hollywood after work on a weeknight. But to clean up the toys in the family room while I'm putting Alex to bed, or to be doing the dishes AFTER having unloaded the dishwasher so that I could have the evening to JUST RELAX....well, these days, THAT will guarantee some lovin' feelings from me.
It's not an "if you do XY, I'll do BJ" but rather that warm fuzzy feeling you get for someone who just wants to do right by you and make you happy and love you....and shows you that by doing what you need him to do in the moment before you realize you need him to do it.
Posted by: Julie | January 21, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Well, Pookie is now 8-1/2 months old now, hubby does almost all household chores, and my drive is still absolutely zero. We're breastfeeding and have been eating solids for a few months, so the nursing is down, and I'm getting decent sleep as compared to before birth (grad school is awful for sleep, too) but the libido just isn't there. However, I also haven't ovulated yet. At all. Can someone please tell me if this is normal? (As additional information, I didn't ovulate normally before -- PCOS -- but had a great sex drive. Man, I miss that drive.)
Posted by: -AM | January 21, 2008 at 11:02 PM
We never have it enough for my DH. :) we have been together since high school, did a long dist. relationship in college (that was by far the most intense sex) then living together, then married and now new baby. So we have gone through many phases and outside of the crazy long dist. time post baby has been the best!
The first few weeks/times were really hard and I was so uncomfortable with the aftermath down there but we hit 4 months and things rocked! now (5.5 months) sleep plays a huge factor. not that i get much but if its late when we get to it i will often want to pass.
Also good novels with good romance/steam do seem to jupstart my otherwise non-exsistance lebido.
So in this 'new' phase the sex is not always uber frequent but better in quality over all. partly the co-sleeping let's try this room and do we have time urgency. and maybe partly seeing each other in new roles or being happy to have someone spend time on me not just me giving.
like the dishes being the new foreplay, back/shoulder rubs take me from touched out to hey there!
Posted by: sheSaid | January 21, 2008 at 11:08 PM
I have 2 kids under 3 at home (although my 3 year old has just started kindy today..boo hoo). I'm a SAHM and although they are really good kids are very very demanding attention wise, especially my daughter. She is just about out of the 55 week fussy period and has gone back to nursing oh, 8 times a day. I feel every last drop of energy has been sucked out of me by her recently. My poor husband has learnt to live without much sex over these 3 years. I'm just too pooped to pop. When the kids go to bed, all I want to do is flake, or at best, do something I haven't been able to do while the kids are around, like fold the washing! Hubby is great with chores. He's the floor man, washes and vacuumes and does all the extra work that I can't do, works hard out of the house, but doesn't give me much of a hand with the rug rats. Perhaps I'm a little resentful for this, although realistically, how can he when he often gets home after the kids are asleep.
Whatever the reason, sex is the last thing on my mind ever. My periods have come back recently, I do get a mid cycle charge, but prefer to ignore it as I really can't be bothered to forsake sleep, 'me' time to share my body with a third/forth party
Posted by: paola | January 22, 2008 at 04:10 AM
@ caramama: Intresting point about the romance novels making you horny. A, lets say, 'romance novel' that worked big time for me while I was pregnant with number two was the 'French Lieutenant's Woman' by John Fowles. Definitely not your Barbara Cartland type novel. Extremely saucy!!. Who knows, may even work on me now ( although I think I'm a lost cause at the moment)
Posted by: paola | January 22, 2008 at 08:39 AM
I think what I hate most is that I had sooo much of a sex drive before baby was concieved. I wanted it all the time and so did he. I'm sad for him and sad for me that it is no longer that way. I never got to have enjoyable sex while I was pg. DS sat so low in my uterus that he was partcially on my cervis since day one so I never enjoyed it.
I would love to hear suggestions on HOW to move past this. Is it the new stage in our lives that others have referred to?
Posted by: embarrased | January 22, 2008 at 08:55 AM
Definitely a sleep issue for me. I used to have a MUCH higher libido than my husband -- one of the women who wanted it every day! Since then, I still want sex, but I don't care if we don't have it. Sleep is just as good. Oddly, with this new balance, my husband initiates way more, and we've had more, and better, sex since I got pregnant and the baby was born than we had in years before that. Woohoo!
I should also join my voice to the women giving praise to their wonderful husbands. Despite the baby weight I can't seem to lose, despite fatigue and untouchable nipples, he makes me feel beautiful.
Posted by: JB | January 22, 2008 at 09:40 AM
I think only one person made this comment, but I want to add to it.
Body confidence for a mom goes a long, long way to enjoying sex again. It is the rare woman who is not flabbier in some way after baby. It takes us a while to come to terms with that or be happy with what we are able to do about it. I know that when I started feeling good about myself, physically, I started enjoying sex again (although the boobs were off limits until nursing was over).
Now that I am on my second pregnancy and have a radically different view of my body this time around I am actually enjoying sex, rather than it being something to do. Of course, the fear of bed rest - and pelvic rest - again keeps me going too. We want to get as much in before they maybe tell us we can't for three months again. Let me tell you, you may not want it so much in the last trimester, but to have it forbidden makes it very hard to get through. Heck, I wasn't even allowed an orgasm!
Posted by: cheryl | January 22, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Clearly, I need to revisit the romance section of my local library!
Posted by: rudyinparis | January 22, 2008 at 09:58 AM
My DS just turned 2, and nursed until just recently as well. I remember a friend telling me that she only breastfed for 3 months because breastfeeding kills sex. I refused to believe this because I knew that I wanted to breastfeed until my son weaned himself.
I'm sorry to say that, for me, she was partially right. I literally felt like crawling out of my skin if my DH touched my breasts (still do, a bit), and could have happily abstained altogether for the first year (our DS didn't sleep through the night for the first 20 months of his life, oy).
Sleep helps lots, but exercise for me helps the most. When I'm feeling good about myself (and that's not necessarily tied to weight loss), I'm much more likely to initiate and enjoy sex. So finding time (and energy) for fitness (right now I'm loving T-Tapp) is key for me.
May I also give a shout out for sex toys? You can use them alone, but you don't have to. My DH adores grabbing one while I grab another, and we take care of me before intercourse. This is so helpful, especially for women who have a hard time having an orgasm through intercourse alone.
If you want a sex toy for beginners, the Pocket Rocket is great. Small, discreet and does the job. :o)
Posted by: PrehistoricMama | January 22, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Let's hear it for sex in the bathroom! We live in a loft with no rooms per se. Little girl sleeps near our bed (or in said bed as the night progresses). Soooo, it's either bathroom or the oft-practiced "quiet sex" elsewhere in the house.
I haven't read anything about this but am very curious-- any thoughts on how very subtle "exposure" like this to parental sex affects babies, say after a year old??
Posted by: mamamia | January 23, 2008 at 05:03 AM
Just to get this off my chest (haha) but perhaps you could consider saying breastfeeding (instead of nursing) so as not to exclude exclusively pumping? I guess it's mostly semantics, but just because you aren't nursing doesn't mean you aren't breastfeeding, and so the same hormones would apply.
Posted by: Eva | January 25, 2008 at 11:33 AM
@paola or others, any other book recommendations? that is a great idea, as my mind and imagination play a big part in wanting and enjoy those rare intimate moments with DH.
Posted by: lina | January 28, 2008 at 04:05 PM
I'm so relieved to finally come upon a discussion about this, I'm actually considering going to see a specialist because I'm so fed up of not wanting to have sex. I have just finished breastfeeding my 14 month old and sex has been practically non existent the whole time, I think its down to several factors which include hormones, no natural lubrication even after orgasm, lack of sleep, very low body esteem, feeling "touched out" at the end of the day and maybe even a bit of resentment towards my partner for not helping as much as I think he should.
Right now I question whether I'll ever want to have sex again and it depresses me hugely, my couple is suffering from the lack of intimacy and I look back upon my pregnancy and all those delightful sexy hormones with huge nostalgia...
Posted by: me in spain | January 31, 2008 at 11:15 AM
So funny that you ask that, because berofe my husband and I bought ours we really wanted an answer to that question and couldn't find it anywhere!Sleeping on a Tempurpedic bed is much better than a regular bed, hands down. But I wouldn't say the sex is better, except that it's not as noisy no springs to squeak! (Our headboard still squeaks, though, so that benefit is sort of lost on us.)There is a difference between sex on the Tempurpedic and sex on a regular bed, but it didn't take us long to get used to it and now if we stay somewhere that's a regular bed, I can't say we really even notice the change. The biggest difference I noticed when we first got it was that if I was on top of my husband, my knees would sink in more than a regular bed. But again, after a short time we got used to it and now we don't even think about it.We've owned our Tempurpedic for just about 4 years now and we are still raving about it and commenting how it's the best money we ever spent, so I can highly recommend it. In our experience, it won't have much impact on your sex life.
Posted by: Isamar | May 16, 2012 at 03:15 PM