Help for parents of early wakers?

I've been getting several emails from parents who have toddlers waking up really early (like 5 am). The kids are obviously still tired, but can't get back to sleep or stay asleep. Then they're cranky for the rest of the day.

I'm sure many of us have gone through this on limited occasions (it happened in my house yesterday, which is why I didn't post and was foggy at work all day), but having it happen morning after morning would be truly demoralizing.

Here are the things I've suggested:

• Blackout shades on the windows. You can buy actual blackout shades, or you can buy blackout material at a fabric store, or even just heavy drapery cloth and make your own.
• Mess around with bedtime. Sometimes it seems like the kids are just in the wrong place in the sleep cycle, and that's why they wake up. So switching the starting sleep time around might alleviate the problem. (I also think it may be sort of the same effect whacking the side of the TV has to get it to stop fuzzing out, but that's just me.) As counter-intuitive as it sounds, I'd start with bumping the bedtime earlier, unless you've already got a 7 pm bedtime, in which I'd try 8 pm. (FWIW, it seems to me just from hearing people talk that most kids have a sleep-time sweet spot between 7 and 8 pm, so if you're totally up in the air I'd start with 7 and see where it gets you.)
• Check out the naps. How old is your kid? Most kids older than 18 months are down to one nap a day, in the early afternoon. If your toddler is still taking two naps, the early waking might be part of trying to drop the second nap. Messing around with that might give you some more information.
• Look at what your kid's eating. I think diet problems (including bad reactions to artificial things or acids, and reflux) usually manifest themselves earlier in the night (waking up screaming an hour after going to bed is a classic sign of reflux or too much acid, for example). But you never know. Anything that's causing stress on a kid's system can make the difference between being able to go back to sleep after the slight arousal of finishing one sleep cycle, and if they're having a tummy problem of any sort, that could do it.
• "Psychological" causes. I didn't know what else to call it, but some kids go through a monster phase, when they wake up and are scared of random things or of monsters or of being alone. You could definitely try some kind of monster-scarer or other comfort object (I think you'll have better success with something you get specifically to scare away the bad things than just trying to use an old comfort object) and explain that it will help them get back to sleep in the middle of the night and keep them safe.

But if none of this is working, what do you guys recommend? Like everything else in parenting, you could just wait it out. But if your child is desperately tired, and you can barely function at work, you need to  get everyone sleeping longer ASAP.

Does anyone want to offer solutions, suggestions, anecdotes, or commiseration?

Comments

[fahmi]

Probably late, but here are some ideas:

1] Blackout curtains, or at least really thick ones. We got ours from Bed Bath and Beyond, and while I generally get cranky at their prices, these curtains have been wonderful. We have blinds on our windows and we put blackout curtains over that.

2] Make sure there's no other lights in the room! We found out one night, that the light from the baby monitor (saying it's on) can really seem bright in the room at 5am. We now hide anything that has LEDs behind something, or cover it up with a small cloth, or just unplug it, because tiny blinky lights can add up to too much light.

3] One thing that's worked for us was for a few days or so, get up around 3am and quickly and quietly change his diaper. That way, when 5am came around, the diaper wasn't so soggy, so he was able to keep sleeping. There's nothing like feeling wet to keep you awake! I think the wet feeling was getting our kid up early when he was about 21 month old - so we did it for a few days, and now he seems to sleep later fine. Except for those occasional mornings with a dirty diaper.

4] Early bedtime? I am a big believer in early to sleep, late to rise theory. That said, if the kid is too rested from having too many naps, then that might be a problem. So cut out a nap, and voila, the kid is automatically going down for an earlier bedtime.

[obxmom]

I have faced the fact that my son requires less sleep than i would like. The poster that said bed at 9pm up at 5am, 2 hour nap, and full speed ahead...THAT is my son too.

Everyone has expressed different and similar situations with great solutions. I know it is hard, but before you get too frustrated with the early wakings (yeah right!) take a long (and hard) look at your child. Make sure he/she is not like mine and just requires less sleep.

My ONLY saving grace since he began sleeping through the night is he likes an hour of cuddle time before bed and when he wakes up. So while he gets up at 5 am, he isn't really really up until 6.

Oddly enough...I think DS is going through a growth spurt because he has been eating like crazy and waking closer to 6.

[Rebecca]

Oh, yes - this has been my life since my little guy was 4 mos! Now he's a few weeks from two, and we're happy if we get to 6AM!! I think he's just at 'low-end of the needed sleep' spectrum. Not every toddler needs to sleep 12 hrs at night, plus a nap. My little guy taps out around 10 hrs. So, what works better for us is a bit later bedtime and keeping the daytime nap around 1.5 hrs. We also leave him in his crib for as long as possible and turn off the baby monitor when he wakes up. Sometimes he surprises us and falls back to sleep. Otherwise, we hear him jumping in his crib until we can't take it anymore!!

[ireps]

i love these comments because they remind me time and time again "I AM NOT ALONE". dh and i thought we were the only parents who had to ration our 18M olds sleep, really seriously ration it. If he naps longer than 2hrs, then is up half an hour earlier in the am (NOT okay when his usual wake time is 5ish), if he goes to bed early, wakes up earlier...the only time this theory doesnt work is that later to bed doesnt mean later to rise, unless it is much much later and there is no way i can deal with a later bedtime.

for the other moms whose toddlers just wont sleep more hours in the night, how do you get through the day?

[liz]

We're using a doubled-over queen-size dark-green flannel top sheet as a black-out curtain on MM's window. I miss my flannel sheet, but we're not worrying about it off-gassing as it had been washed for years before we re-purposed it.

It works great!

[sue]

@pnuts mama
yup, they think I'm a total beyotch for bringing my own curtain. Oh well, they're related to me - they should know by now, right? We eventually stopped travelling with the curtains - now we travel with an indoor tent (really). We set it up in whatever room dd is sleeping in, and put a blanket over top to make it darker inside. She loves it, and the "quirk factor" keeps the grandparents from grumbling as much as they used to about our requirements when visiting (the dark room is a minor one - the no smoking is the one we MUST win). Oh yeah - the tent thing totally works for a child that likes the security/confinement of a crib if you won't have a crib where you're going. That's how we started with it - my daughter wouldn't sleep anywhere but a crib until she was 2.5yo 9except the tent, of course).

[Charisse]

@ireps, well, outside care helped me a lot (although the arguments with the staff over nap-limiting could sometimes be a hassle). Mouse's issues were on the other end of the day--she's happy to sleep late, but too long a nap has meant an 11 or later sleep time since she was a not much more than 2. Whee.

Only a couple of suggestions--you might think of shortening the nap further for a couple days and see what happens...and then, run the kid ragged after his nap and keep him up until a reasonable bedtime.

Hang in there! It's actually kind of nice to have a non-napping 3-yo who can stay up for events without getting cranky.

[schannpi]

Moxie, you hit the nail on the head when you wrote that having an early wake time day after its still dark outside day can be demoralizing. we have tried everything and now husband and i just switch off on mornings. MTW are mine, ThFSa are his, sunday we both get up at the crack of dawn. the day gets really really long when you are at stay at home mama and have a bouncy high energy needy toddler keeping you literally on your toes from 5am to 8:30pm. we're exhausted.

[Julie]

I'm so surprised - and encouraged - by how many other people out there are suffering like we did. I'm grateful that we seem to have passed out of this phase being an everyday thing (watch....tomorrow it will be a 4:30 AM wakeup time because I said that)......but I can't tell you how many times I almost wrote Moxie about this problem. There's a possibility I did, and just don't remember b/c I was so tired.

The bottom line is that every kid is different. I'm reading so many of you whose kids just don't need a lot of sleep and get frustrated when people tell you to put your kid down early, or those out there whose kids needed that early bedtime b/c no matter WHAT time they went to bed, they still woke up at the crack of dawn (mine) and it was always better to frontload that sleep so that at least they got a full night. I can't tell you how many times my mother told me I was putting him down too early and if I'd just put him to bed at 8 he'd sleep later. I don't think it was until he spent his first weekend with HER that she realized what a very BAD idea that was.

My point is....again, we know our kids the best. I hope for everyone's sake that they find some new nugget that MIGHT work for them......b/c the old standard "wait it out" sucks. Until it happens and then it is great.

[pnuts mama]

@julie, rudyinparis, i'm not sure how old your youngests are (eliminating bottle before bed)- but do they fall asleep while drinking? they may grow out of that on their own. pnut nursed to sleep til she was about 18 months when we finally weaned that last session out (by necessity, plus she was losing interest)...

to get her to start switching to cows milk, at 12 months she never liked any sippy (too hard to suck!), but we used the old school p*land spr*ng water bottle tops (open just a teeny way) on a small PS bottle with milk in it. basically like a fast flow nipple- i had to keep an eye on it so she wouldn't make a mess, but it helped her get used to it.

i remember at her OT evaluation the therapist said sippies are hard to use and straw ones are the best. i've also heard good things about those sigg containers. or do you think it's the milk itself they are resisting?

[allison]

another black-out fabric alternative is a generic emergency blanket or "space blanket." You know, the mylar ones you can get at the drugstore for about $3. First we tried foil, but when the heater came on in our daughter's room it made a horrible rattling sound (even though we had taped it tight all around the window). The mylar doesn't rattle.

[Fiona]

When our chronic early waker was under 18 months the Baby Whisperer technique of "getting in first" worked for us. It sounds insane but I'd set the alarm clock an hour earlier than his usual wakeup (i.e. at 4am!!!) I'd go in and wake HIM before he woke US! (not fully wake but just stir him a little and pat him back down). I was THAT desperate!

I did it two nights in a row and it WORKED! (for a while anyway). Something about disrupting the pattern, re-setting his body clock etc.

[Fiona]

Our early waker is now nearly 4 and no matter how late he goes to bed, he ALWAYS wakes up around 6am (civilised compared to the many 5am phases when he was younger).

We realised that 11 hours sleep = Friend; 10 or under = Foe. So we do what we have to. He's in bed at 6pm every night, which doesn't happen unless there is a long wind-down period beforehand. We do bath at 4pm, dinner at 5pm, quiet play then bed.

It is really difficult to stick to such an early schedule but we do it. It isn't worth the bad behaviour that comes from not getting enough sleep.

[Amberley]

We have somewhat had this problem for about 16 months now. When my oldest was almost 3yrs old he started waking at 6-6:30 (he previously slept 7-7). Very quickly it turned into waking at 5:30-6. We played with his bedtime and found that he got the most sleep if he went to bed at 6:30- he still got up around 5:30am though. We also another boy 13 months younger who was sleeping from 7-8or 8:30. As someone else said, I believe this happened because we took him out of his crib. He did not try to climb out of crib at all, so when he woke up he would generally go back to sleep. When he got into the toddler bed and woke up, he knew he could get out and so he did. Anyway, after about six or seven months our other son started doing the same thing. Right now they are generally up between 5 and 5:30, sometimes it's 4:30 and sometimes it's 6. They don't nap everyday, only a few days a week. Our oldest will nap about 2hrs and the youngest only 1 hr. Our oldest also started school this past Sept. and this has not helped him sleep more. We tried giving our oldest a clock and told him to stay in bed until 6- it had worked for a while, but that was before his brother started getting up early. For a few months it would work to bring our oldest into bed with us, but now they both want to play if we try this. We have darkened their rooms (although it's pitch black outside when they get up anyway). Even over the holidays with all the excitement and late nights they never slept in once. We even have problems with night waking, especially in our youngest- he generally goes right back to sleep though. But may wake twice in the night just to get 'covered up'. He is 3 next month.

Now the difference with my kids is that they get up at 5am and are totally wide awake and active and for the most part stay that way all day!!! I just can't believe it!
I was suspected of having Chronic Fatigue a few years ago and I have trouble sleeping too. So I am getting very tires and hoping and praying that this will end soon, it's been a LOOOONG 16 months...

[Shandra]

My son was up at 4:30 this morning and I blame you all!!!

Actually although he's going to be tired today I just gave up and we had a little Duplo party. It was weirdly fun (must be the sleep deprivation talking).

[Jen]

I think, like some PPs said, when our babe woke around 5 when he was 6 months old, I'd bring him into bed with us, nurse him, and he'd be out until 7. Lately, he has cut out the 4:30 waking and crying ("solved" after a couple of nights when I just put my ipod on to drown out the yells), but he now wakes around 5:30/5:45. He's 1 year old. I typically go in and get him recently, nurse him, and we're up for the day. His morning nap ends up being a bit earlier, but typically, he's not crankier for getting up at that hour (wish I could say the same for me). Messing with bedtime never works for us, so we put him down at 6:30 each night. he typically gets 11 solid hours in, so I can't really complain.

AND, we've been on both ends---waking a kid to get up when we need to get out the door to work, and having to get ready while the kiddo wants to get up and party @ 5:30. Looking back at the days when we could shower, eat, get ready, then he'd wake up---those days were heaven.

[michele]

Little (18 mos) has ALWAYS been an early waker, as was Big (3) when he was younger. Little gets up at 5, 5:30, and I refuse to CIO because he may wake Big, which would make my life more of a hell than it is with Little up so early.

Little naps early because he gets up so early, so a 5 a.m. wakeup begets a 9 a.m. nap, which leads to a 5, 6 hour stretch until a 7 p.m. bedtime. Big has transformed in a huge sleeper. We CIO'd him when he was an early waker, with mixed success. He aged out of it, I think.

We just got back from a 4-day car trip to visit relatives (6 hours in a car) which wiped both Big and Little out. Big fell asleep at 4 p.m. yesterday and slept till 6 a.m. this morning!

I like the morning, so it works for me. If I wasn't a morning person, I'd put a white noise machine in Big's room, and let Little CIO.

[suzy]

there was someone sharing about their child waking 1-3 hours after going to bed, and wanted to comment on that...sounds like it could be night terrors. i have more information about that on my website at http://www.mothersfriendsos.com in the RESOURCES section. it could also be that they are either getting too much napping during the day and so not really tired at bedtime (fall asleep initially but wake soon afterwards). or they could be overtired, overstimulated from the day. also, in regards to the early 5am wakings, have people tried using white noise in the room to block out others getting up in the morning, dogs barking, etc. ? a radio, wave/rain machine, fan, etc. can work wonders! :-)

[SJ]

@rudyinparis - same problem here - pregnant with #2, moved #1 to a toddler bed at Thanksgiving, the last months has been awful.
We would up getting a "crib tent" (he could climb out of the crib otherwise) and putting him back in there when he won't stay in bed (honestly, I think it's a little bit of a relief to him sometimes when he's so tired but can't control the impulse to come out and check on us.
Hopefully he will manage the bed more regularly sometime before his little sister really needs the crib.

[SZ]

We have gone through a few phases of 5/5:30 wake-up with my daughter. What worked after she was 2, was getting an alarm clock that plays gentle music that we set to go off at 6:15 at first and then moved it up. For the first week and some relapses after we had to go in and remind her that it was time to get up when her music comes on. Now we have the alarm go off at 6:45.

[rudyinparis]

@Pnuts mama, Younger is 21 mos. We still give her a bottle of milk at bedtime--she doesn't fall asleep on it, but it's part of the routine and the current routine works so well... We need to start seriously moving toward cutting it out--I guess--but it's just that our nice little routine works so well... I'm watching her closely for a time when we can just naturally take the bottle out of the equation. And thanks to this community I've (pretty much) stopped fretting over it and have decided to just watch her cues.

@SJ--I feel for you! Like I said before, I really feel this was one area (not the only area, certainly) where we truly bungled the situation. I mean, we've been feeling the repercussions for the last 2+ years. And I made the mistake of talking with someone about it within earshot of Eldest, prompting this question a few days later:

Momma, why did you move me out of my crib when I was still a baby?

Ouch.

[Kellie C]

re: other ideas for balckout curtains....

We went to our local fabric shop, picked up some fleece with a black background and a fun print (bright-colored lizards), and I made double-thick curtains. Between those and the mini-blinds that were already in her room, it gets pretty dark in there, which is key since her room faces due east. It was cheap, efficient, and the curtains will stay up year-round with no problem.

[Julie]

@Pnuts Mama, Rudyinparis....same with us re: bottle at bedtime. He doesn't go in his crib with it (aside from the teeth issue....the mess!!!) but we drink it while we read our books and sing our songs right before bedtime. On good nights I try to give him a sip of water to rinse out a bit....but mostly I forget. Like rudyinparis...it's just such a nice part of our routine, it soothes and calms him down - he kind of gets ramped up after bath what with all the Naked Boy running around yelling "NO SHIRT!" slapping his belly and then running off again. So it is still needed in my opinion. Like Rudyinparis...we're sort of resigned to it, it's actually a handy thing for middle of the night wakings b/c it's a quick bottle (can't talk and be silly if you're drinking milk!) and back to sleep as opposed to the constant negotiation if we try to skip it "Mommy, why can't I go play with my toys? NEEEEED to!!!" No thanks. For us, (for the time being):
bottle = friend. He'll grow out of it eventually.

[hedra]

I love this place - so many sane people. Some thoughts/experience, some already touched on, others not:

1) The early bedtime (6 PM) was essential for us for G, for a while. He moved from being X hours period (earlier bed = earlier rise) to being the sleep = more sleep type, and back again.

2) Visual kids need visual cues, auditory kids need sound cues, kinesthetic kids need physical cues. G is auditory, and needed white noise ABSOLUTELY (and blackout curtains, too, but white noise was a must) when he was little. B is visual, and needs darkness. R is HIGHLY visual and will wake with even small amounts of light, M, no idea yet. It doesn't make bad habits to work with the system they function in - you're working *with* them, not against them. Allowing them to gradually learn other cues over time is grand and useful, but the whole idea isn't 'had a bad habit and helped them out of it' but instead 'had a primary method of processing the world, and developed complementary methods over time'. Start where they already 'live', and move from there over time to expand their range. But don't fret if you're really just playing to (or on) their strengths!

3) Like JenN, going to bed early for us was a big help. My problem (MY problem) is being too tired if they wake early. Their problem is not getting enough sleep, but the timing isn't really their issue, that's mine. So, I tweak my end of it - go to bed earlier, and be productive (ish) in the morning, instead of evening. Keeping my sleep needs separate from their sleep 'issues' helped me not resent them needing whatever it was they needed. Naps, early bed, whatever works for MOM. And then whatever works for kids, separate. Granted, sometimes neither option seems to work, and it's just accept and roll with it, bleary eyes and all.

4) Temp - room temp plays a big role with my kids. G (he of the many-factored sleep issues) needed it cold (!) to sleep well. B is moderate and copes with various temps. R likes warm-ish. M still (at 3) cannot self-regulate her body temp, so if she gets cold, she just gets colder and colder, and if she gets warm, she gets warmer and warmer. Room temp doesn't matter so much as proper pjs/sleep-clothes. The right bedtime clothes are ESSENTIAL for her - which means NO foot coverings other than thin socks at most (her feet release heat and overheat badly if covered), but ALWAYS shirt and pants if it is chilly. And nearly naked if it is warm. Feet too warm was a cause of some of my night-waking as a kid, and I still can't sleep in 'sleep-socks' unless it is freezing out. MUST wake and kick them off.

5) Try tucking them in the wrong way round (head at the foot end) after wakings. My mom did that with me, and I'd totally forgotten until someone (here, I think) reminded me of it.

6) Sensory issues - one of our favorite items is a mini trampoline. Exercise before bed is SUPPOSED to make it harder to sleep, but the kids do much better if they bounce a lot right before bed.

@Yet Another Jen, the rash around the mouth thing - if that wasn't identified as a specific issue, it could be food allergy or protein intolerance. B would get eczema around his mouth on exposure to soy. It wasn't 'true allergy' but rather 'Milk/Soy Protein Intolerance' (which goes away usually by around 3 year old on its own) - avoidance of milk and soy protein might play a role here. Sucky, but the milk protein reaction affects sleep (noted in clinical research) - and unfortunately, it takes 5 weeks clear of the proteins to get normal sleep behavior back (per researchers, using reintroduction and re-removal, too).

That said, night terrors are also common enough. The 'get in first' approach is sound , and is recommended for night terrors - re-set the process by going in before they'd normally re-wake (usually 15-20 minutes after going down, but maybe sooner if they're waking very soon after going down), and wake them slightly, then put them back down again. That disrupts whatever pattern isn't quite on target.

Wait, 7) Another thing that nobody has mentioned: Sunrise clocks. Our kids go down much more easily (and wake more easily) with the half-hour cue of the light fading away or rising slowly. They know that when the light isn't ALL THE WAY ON, we're not really awake yet. They can be pricey, but the kids ones aren't totally insane (unlike the adults ones, ouch!). Just mostly insane. But we bit the bullet on those, because they make a huge difference for our (more visual than otherwise) kids.

Good luck, all.

[Kathy]

I've done everything to keep my son asleep. He's an early riser like his dad and paternal grandma. I've come to hate the end of daylight savings and I think a 5am wake up is a blessing. I'm just praying for the teenage years when I'll be shaking him awake at Noon. I'm just happy to know that I'm not alone. Misery does love company!

[laury]

Timers! PLug a nightlight into a timer set for 10 mins after the usual wake up time, then you can go in and say, see, we have to stay in bed til the light comes on. Then set it a bit later each few days. It does seem to have some effect eventually. Or there are those weird clocks with pop-up bunny ears, but a simple light will do it. I think this probably is unlikely to work much before 2, depending on your child.

[Ellen]

The original question was regarding toddlers, so I'll focus on that. I've always thought that sleep begets sleep but was interested that bree thought it was only true for infants and young toddlers. I have a 28 month old that is waking up an hour earlier than she used to. I would have thought that it was just a sleep adjustment, but she wakes up crying and screaming rather than her previous happy wake-up. For her, I think the issue is that she is hungry and I think that is caused by not sticking closely enough to her routine in the evening. If we feed her too little at bedtime, she wakes up early and is hungry. If we feed her too much, she has to go poop before we finish the bedtime routine and as she is newly potty training that sets us back another good 20 minutes, or longer if she hits the proverbial wall! So, what's the answer? Sneak in her room at 3am when I'm feeding the 6 month old and give her a protein shake or something?

[Katie]

I just wanted to add 2 cents-- Our wee man was doing this for a bit. Among other issues, asthma included, the allergist did determine he had some pretty intense GERD. After starting Zantac, there is far far less waking at 4/5 am-ish. Now if he wakes, it's later and can usually be consoled by getting into bed with us.

[hedra]

Katie's comment on the GERD reminded me that 'breakthrough' type GERD (either maxing out the meds, or just not-all-day form) can be worst in the very middle of the night, toward morning. I'd totally blanked on that (M used to wake with GERD symptoms between 3 and 4 AM, upping her med dose at night stopped that - she also tended to want to nurse then, as nursing helped it feel better... for a bit, anyway).

[Melissa]

We put my son into a big boy bed at 14 months because we were expecting another boy a few months later and needed the crib. Anyway, he loved to wake up between 4:30-5:am and it drove us nuts.

We tried messing with bedtimes/naptimes, etc. but nothing seemed to do the trick. Even have white noise and blackout shades and niether worked.

So, we ended up doing something I never thought we would do. He would get out of bed and knock on his door for us to let him out at 5:am. After a few minutes of him knocking on the door, he started to play with his toys and ended up crawling back into bed. He fell back asleep until 7am when we opened up the bedroom door.

After three days of doing this, he now sleeps until 7am without waking up. Bedtime is 7:45. Wakeup is 7am and sometimes as late as 7:30. This has been going on for 3 months now and it's bliss.

[Sarah]

Sigh...my 2 and a bit your old is an early riser (5.15am is the norm, 5.45am is a sleep in!) and nothing we have tried has worked. We have black out blinds, he goes to bed at around 7.30 and is alseep by 7.45pm. I wish I had a solution but the only thing I can say is I FELL your pain! especially since the last few weeks he has also been waking up my 8 month old! UGH!

[Heather]

My daughter has been like this ever since she started sleeping through the night, and now she's 16 months. She sleeps great, she just wakes up early, generally hours before it's light so I think all the blackout shades in the world don't make a difference (although we have them). We've always used a white noise machine too, but I really don't think it's noise or light that wakes her. That's just her internal clock. Ding! Time to get up. It's so demoralizing... I mean when I got pregnant I expected to not sleep late any more, but I didn't expect to keep farmer's hours for the rest of my life. I have two questions for people: If you have experienced this and your child is now older, did it ever stop? When?
And second, what do people think is an acceptable time to try to push a child to? I have read in some of the books that it's basically unreasonable to expect a child to go back to sleep after 6 a.m. I have been refusing to get my daughter up before then but my husband and I would love to try to push her even later, at least to 6:30. (My husband already tries.) Is it unfair/unrealistic to attempt to push a child past 6 if they seem to be a naturally early riser (she prefers 5:30)?

[hedra]

Heather, I think you'll get as many answers to when (if ever) their internal clock changes as there are kids with internal clocks. For us, G's clock changed at around 2, 4, and 7 years old, and he'll now sleep to (GASP!) 7:30 or so on a weekend morning. If his siblings let him. Certainly in the teen years, expect a big change... not that you want to wait until then to get to sleep in, though.

[ldqcgypeps]

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