George

I don't have a post in me this morning. I was working on one last night, and planned to put the finishing touches on it this morning while the kids are eating breakfast, but can't do it.

After school drop-off and before I go to work this morning, I'm going to visitation* for my neighbor, who died last week. He'd been an alcoholic for years and years. I remember when I first moved into the building, the police came at least once a month because he and his girlfriend were having a fight and she was attacking him (and then trying to press charges against him). I'd see him around the building, and he was kind and gentle, with this mellow, sweet energy. In the last few years he dropped a lot of weight and started using a walker (I'm guessing he was around 70 when he died) and his speech was labored and slurred even when he wasn't obviously drunk.

I just feel so horrible for him, that his whole life was so wasted by this disease. He was in bondage to alcohol and couldn't free himself. Who knows what he was when he was young, and what he could have accomplished? He should have been New York City Grandpa, taking his grandkids to the Museum of Natural History and out to diners and to the playground, instead of this sad, kind man in a bathrobe reeking of booze.

I feel so bad for his children, who didn't really get to have a dad.

I have no idea where I'm going with this. I think I'm just wondering how people make peace with needless waste and loss. And also how we keep working on ourselves so we don't end up wasting our own lives.

Thoughts?

* This is when the family is at the funeral home and people come to sign the guest book and pay their respects to the family. I grew up with this in American Midwestern gentile subculture, but don't know if it's universal, or is called visitation or something else in other places and subcultures.

Comments

[Maura]

Moxie,

I'm sorry for your loss. Alcoholism is a terrible disease and effects everyone around it, even neighbors.

And I'm Irish Catholic, so I know the tradition, though we call it a "wake".

[Trope]

I think one of the worst things about death is that it makes us all think, "If I'd just had a little more time. If only something had been a little different at some point." There's an awful finality in endings.

Alcoholism is tricky too because so many people are touched by it, and we tend to react with fear and a whole lot of moralism. I'm glad that you were still a part of George's community. Just take care of yourself and your family right now.

[Jenn]

My dad's been sober probably close to 15 years and it in a lot of ways alcoholism still effects his relationship with us kids.

We've always called it "the viewing".

[Maria]

Cunning, baffling, and insidious… that's alcoholism for you, and the ripple effect spreads far beyond what you'd think it would. I'm glad you have such compassion for your friend and all the people affected by the disease.

[Linda]

As an ICU nurse, I see so much waste. People make crappy decisions~sometimes unintentionally or spur-of-the-moment~and pay for it the rest of their lives. Or their families pay for it. It's a tough way to learn that choices have consequences. So sad.

[Nutmeg]

My father was an alcoholic. He was a violent drunk and when he moved out when I was a kid, I was left with apathy for him in the absence of the fear I usually had.

It took another 10 years before I was able to have any sort of emotional relationship with him. I recall knocking on his door one afternoon stopping by after work to bring him fresh tomatoes from a farm stand. He loved tomatoes. I was 20. When he opened the door, his face clearly showed the sudden realization that he had missed out on SO Much. At that point he had been sober for a couple of years.

Less than 6 years later he would be dead. No one would know for more than a week that he had collapsed and died in the hallway outside his bathroom.

Had had been drinking again for a couple of years. He was 57.

He wasn't a bad person and my son will never get to dig in the garden or build fine carpentry projects with his grandpa.

[caramama]

Moxie, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I never met my alcoholic grandfather, who died before I was born, and that's a hole in my life that will never bee filled. My husband's uncle and aunt and many other family members on his side and mine passed on before our baby could ever meet them. Died too young, with sad lives, due to alcoholism.

At least I have learned from them what not to do. I hope to teach that to my child(ren), as well. I think all we can do is try to be there for the ones left behind, and try to help those we see in need.

[anonforthisone]

I struggle with this thought of waste all the time. My SIL is a recovering heroin addict and alcoholic. Over the last 7 years or so, since returning to her smallish town of her parents from the big city across the country, she's finally kicked the heroin, but has continued to make terrible, terrible choices. I have a hard time respecting/liking her seeing how much deliberate pain she inflicts on her family. It's very hard.

But I've finally came to the conclusion, a hard one I think for a parent, that it was all her in these decisions. That her upbringing (the exact same as my husband's) didn't cause this at all. And this terrifies me. If as a parent you can't 'save' your child from this, what can you do?

Good for you, Moxie, for going to the viewing (as we would call it here). Stories like this just break my heart, despite how common they are.

[Barbara]

I think sometimes the peace will come from seeing those who do overcome those demons. If there isn't hope in the world, then I don't know how I could overcome the sadness of seeing someone I love make horrible decisions. I just do what I can for them, I pray, I hope, and then I try to live my life in the best possible way.

PS- Here in Utah, we usually call that event the "viewing" or alternatively, but less often the "wake." I certainly like the term visitation better, because that's what you are doing, visiting the family and sharing in their grief.

[Alma]

Making peace with it... as a social worker with too many years working with disenfranchised populations including substance abusers, mentally ill, homeless, undocumented, and indigent folks, I'll say what I have often told new social workers I have trained: sometimes the job is just to witness, and sometimes that's enough. Not every problem will be solved, not every life will be transformed, not every person will make changes that result in a healthier life. The deck is stacked against some folks more than others for all kinds of reasons. And so, sometimes what is most important is that those folks have been seen, that their lives and its upheaval, its chaos, its pain, its destruction has not gone unnoticed. And even if that person is unable to give voice to the importance that someone has seen them, their way in the world and sometimes out of the world has been witnessed. I like to think that's the way I try to live my unprofessional life too, noticing other people and their circumstances. Bearing witness to the intrinsic dignity in the human person, whether it is found in a life greatly fulfilled or one that has been hobbled by circumstance or choice.

[rudyinparis]

An intense week at Ask Moxie, indeed.

A friend was telling me recently about how an acquaintance of hers recently died--a beautiful woman, an anorexic, who died at 37 because of how that disease had ravaged her body. My friend was saying that the woman would have been so naturally beautiful if only she hadn't starved herself. Such a sad waste. And a reminder to celebrate our bodies, whatever their shape. Sometimes I think of the time I wasted when I was younger, worrying about my body...

I went though a drinking and drugging phase when I was younger. I puzzle about this period. Was it a waste? Would I be a better person today if I had been sober and drug-free? Would I have accomplished more? Would I be a better mother? I honestly don't know the answer. I think many people would say the answer is obviously and unequivocably that I would be better off today having never used drugs or alcohol. But I'm just not sure. I do, however, think that the time I spent preoccupied with my body and my eating habits was a total waste, an utter waste of energy and esteem.

I'll be watching this conversation with a lot of interest. How do we teach our children to live life fully without being either harmed or paralyzed by the fear of making a mistake that will have life-long consequences, as Linda mentions? It's a fine line.

[sherry]

It's crazy how many alcoholics there are. I had two alcoholic grandparents, and my husband's dad is an alcoholic (he's now too feeble to drive himself, so he doesn't drink anymore). My husband is very scarred, a depressed person. So sad. It's good to remember that we must strive to enjoy our lives and add joy to others' lives (when we can -- no new moms should feel guilty -- you're doing good just to get by day to day).

[Heather]

Moxie, your compassionate spirit is so important in today's world. Like Nutmeg, my father was (and still is) an alcoholic. He has ruined his health and is now permanently disabled while still choosing to drink.

It is commonly understood in the medical community that alcohol addiction is a disease, not just a poor choice. However, this can be very difficult for people to understand, especially when they harbor personal wounds related to someone else's alcoholism. Perhaps most vexing is someone, like your neighbor, who does not seek help for their disease (or who was not successful in whatever efforts to overcome the disease) and ends up leading a miserable and lonely existence. Also, we are now just beginning to understand how many alcoholics are "dual-diagnosis", using alcohol to self-medicate undiagnosed and/or untreated mental health diseases. This is also the case with my father who was not diagnosed with bipolar disorder until his late 50's, after ruining his health.

We can only guess at the circumstances behind your neighbor's unfortunate life and death. I understand that many people have very hard feelings towards alcoholics and other addicts; however, Moxie, I believe your compassion is what we need to help begin the healing process for everyone. Take care of yourself.

[paola]

@rudyinparis
I think all our experiences contribute to us being better people even if the experience itself is negative. I too had a longish period of my life where I boozed it up a bit ( quite cultural amongst Australians) and did drugs, but fortunately didn't get hooked. That was sheer luck I believe. My cousin on the other hand is now a recovering drug addict/alcoholic and is having a really hard time of it. I could have turned out like him I guess.

What frightens me is how to teach my kids not to go down the track to begin with, or safely if that's possible. I mean, what are the chances that they won't experiment when they are teenagers with drugs, alcohol, sex? Pretty slim, I think. We parents are going to have a tough job ahead of us keeping them on the straight and narrow. Perhaps those of us who have experimented ourselves, have made mistakes, may be able to empathise more with our kids, and teach them the dangers, having avoided them ourselves?

[Robin]

I think what @Heather said is so true -- it can be very difficult for those of us who are sober and on a positive track to look at alcoholics & addicts as people who are suffering from an actual disease. I come from a long line of depressed alcoholics, some of whom have died from complications of the disease (suicide, liver failure, etc)and at times in my life I have held so much hate and rage that they didn't take responsibility for what I saw as their poor judgement. Only as I've gotten older and seen some of my peers go through the struggle with addiction and recovery have I come to appreciate the fact that it is a disease to be treated and not simply an issue of lifestyle, at least at the core. I commend you for your compassion and your recognition of your neighbor as a human being, albeit a troubled human being. I have what I think might be an irrational fear of alcohol due to my family history. As a result, I have a hard time making the distinction between someone who has a glass of wine each evening (like my husband) to an alcoholic. I find myself asking him naggy questions like "why do you need that wine to relax?" and never being satisfied with the answer. I don't drink much myself. No easy answers to these questions. Maybe no answers at all.

[Katie B.]

I try to take inspiration from people who "waste" their lives, and make mine less wasteful. I mourn their choices, and let that remind me why I make different ones. I also take inspiration from people who struggle to success from extreme disability, like my SIL-to-be who has major mental disabilities, and major physical ones as well (fibromyalgia is just the start), and she's the breadwinner in their household. I have experience also with the "double diagnosis" issue; my best friend's husband is clean and sober after years spent trying to treat his massive social anxiety (and other issues) with drugs and alcohol. He now medicates with pot, which in his case I don't consider a drug, but medication. I have my own struggles with depression and the aftereffects of past emotional abuse, but next to these friends, my struggles pale and I look positively normal!

I don't know what to teach my children. I personally favor a little permissiveness - I know kids are likely to want to experiment, and if I give them space to, then they're supervised and it's not some huge forbidden rebellious thing anyway. Unfortunately, my husband, as a teacher, is a mandated reporter, and I as a doula am also, morally if not legally. I suppose that, like so much else, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. One thing that helped me was that my parents never made an issue about trying alcohol at home; I'll probably do the same thing. I don't know what to do about drugs, except to teach them how to spend their free time in enjoyable ways that don't involve artificially altered consciousness - board games and books and handcrafts and the like.

[caramama]

Heather - Those are really good points. I'm reminded of the late comedian Mitch Hedberg's quote "Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. Goddamn it Otto, you are an alcoholic. Goddamn it Otto, you have Lupis... one of those two doesn't sound right." Actually, neither of those should sound right.

rudyinparis - I think I'm better off for having drank and experimented with some minor drugs in college. I think it provides me with a well-rounded view of the world. I can understand how people get caught up in the world of vices, even though I didn't really go down that path. I think it helps make me more sympathetic/empathetic to others. But I also think it's important that I didn't get hooked (and would never try certain things), and I believe that having alcoholism in my family helped me realize when I needed to stop. I also hope that having had those experiences will help me be able to guide my kids, to help them from going too far into things that are dangerous and hard to come back from, like Paola said. If that makes sense.

[Emily]

I'm with Paola and everybody else: it's not easy to figure out how to address this issue with children. I'm in a "mixed marriage." I doubt anybody in my family, siblings and parents, has touched a cigarette or gotten too drunk to drive more than a handful of times, in the past 50 years, easily. Much less anything else. My husband went through college with a cigarette in one hand, a joint in the other, and a beer on his knees. We have very different expectations about what "drinking" means and what we can expect our kids to do, and we are trying to talk it all out now, before it's an issue. I cannot expect that what worked in my family (where we all simply did what our parents expected without any discussion) will ever work again.

Moxie, you are a good soul, and George's family is undoubtedly very grateful for your kindness right now. Their loss is doubly hard.

[Julie]

My late mother-in-law was an alcoholic. She passed away this last December after a long battle with cancer of the throat. She was also a life-long chain smoker who swore to the very end that her type of throat cancer was *not* caused by smoking.

She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder after my husband's younger brother was born...in her mid twenties. Before that she had been a vivacious, smart, BEAUTIFUL woman who was a successful nurse. She took the medication for a while, went off it, went back on, went off....and drank heavily throughout all of it. She finally went off the meds permanently when my husband was around 8. She continued to self-medicate with alcohol. Her love affair with alcohol caused her to lose her boys, her job, her husband. She continued to drink, lived on the street....finally landed a job working as a cashier at a drug store, which she would later lose due to the constant fog she lived in. I never knew her except as a woman who would call us drunk and wondering why we never called her. Even sober, she slurred her words and I could never tell if she had been drinking or not. At our wedding she walked up to a guest and started telling her how much she loved her, how wonderful it was to have her joining the family...thinking this woman was me.

At the very end she was too weak to get out of her chair. Yet she found the strength to pop open a beer and smoke a cigarette. It is a nasty, vicious disease that is treatable only when the person who has it wishes to be treated. Sadly, she did not. My husband suffers from never having had a mother who cared enough about him or his brother to get well. His memories of his childhood consist of yelling, slamming doors, and the constant smell of gin. He does not remember cuddling with her to read a book, having her tuck him in at night, or even hearing her tell him she loved him. She was a *very* sick woman who had a lot of pain.....which has caused significant pain in both of her boys. It is still very hard emotionally for my husband to watch me mother our son in a way he never had.

My heart goes out to George, but I believe, like with my MIL, that he is finally free of his disease and the reasons behind it. What a wonderful blessing that must be for him and for those who loved him.

[Cristina]

I really enjoy reading this blog, but I've never commented before. My dad was a pretty highly functioning alcoholic who I believe was 'self-medicating' due to some mental health problems. When he died suddenly three years ago I spent a lot of time working through my feelings of unresolved guilt and anger. But reading this post and all of your comments made me aware, once again, of how sad I am that his drinking made it so that he never got to meet my daughter.

I already tell my daughter about all the great things I remember about my dad when we look at his pictures, but when the time is right I will use his story to caution her about the risks of becoming involved with addictive substances. My hope is that she'll be strong enough to see options beyond experimenting with these things. Also, just to be honest, I highly doubt that I'll be able to 'empathize' with her if she choses these things against my advice. Maybe Moxie will have to come back to that one as a blog topic in about 10 years!

[JenniferH]

I'm so sorry about George. Alcoholism runs in my family as well. My paternal grandfather died of it at age 58 when I was just 2 years old. My father struggled with the disease until he was finally hospitalized for it at age 55 due to a blod clot in his liver, and has been sober since. Somehow, I think I got lucky with some kind of different genetic programming or maybe the resilience gene because I have never been prone to abusing drugs or drink even at the very deepest end of my depression. I do plan on talking about the history of alcohol abuse and depression with my son starting at a fairly young age.

Speaking of which: what age would it be appropriate to start talking about these issues? I think waiting until middle or high school is too late. How do you/would you talk about familial alcoholism to a school age child?

[hush]

@Alma - thank you for sharing a wonderful sentiment for those of us in the helping professions: "Sometimes the job is just to witness, and sometimes that's enough."

Moxie, you're a mensch for everything you do -- and especially for bearing witness to your neighbor in his final years. I hope my alcoholic FIL, who for good reason DH chose to cut out of his life, encounters someone kind enough to bear witness to him in a way that his own family members, after many wasted years of hurt, cannot.

[stacy]

I'm sorry - it's devastating, isn't it?

My mother is an alcoholic. She went through a treatment program last year, and as far as we know she is still sober. I always have to qualify it - "as far as we know" - because she hid it very well last time, and like many alcoholics she is a master liar and manipulator at this point.

But you know, even if she does stay sober for the rest of her life, the damage is significant. A big chunk of her is still gone for good. I see my 13 month old son interact with his other grandparents, everybody laughing and tickling and learning, and it breaks my heart that he will never have that sort of relationship with my mother. She tries in her own way, but she is physically weak and unbearably selfish and snappish, impatient. She has more than a touch of alcohol-induced dementia. She's awkward around her grandson, and she'd generally rather be left alone to smoke a cigarette and wallow in the distant past.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know how to deal with her. The issue is too close, I can't see her objectively. All the hate, mourning, and pity is wrapped up in this complex ball that sits in my stomach every time I think of her. I'm sure that George benefited from knowing you, and vice-versa, because you were just neighbors. Not family members with all the attendant hopes, disappointments, and baggage.

[Kel]

If I don't think about this every day, I think about this every week. My father lost everything (and finally his life) to alcohol, my brother is addicted to pot, his nineteen year old daughter just receieved her six month sober medal from NA (Meth...god, evolution in reverse).

I have three very young children. I am concious of every drink I take and do no drugs. I did my share of drugs, twenty years ago. I see my job as a parent to never touch another drug recreationally and watch perscriptions closely and also to watch what I and my partner do with alcohol. I understand its a disease, but there are choices along the way... I'm working on making better, rather than worse, ones.

I will do all of this and tell my children why I am doing all of this. I will struggle to tell my children that drugs and alcohol are, frankly, this is where I'm not sure exactly...fun (?). But fun (?) with a very dangerous side that they must be aware of. Fun that could kill them, fun that could ruin all our lives.

I will let them know that mine will be a tough love house, I'll help them and support them to be, get, stay sober (should I ever need too) but they have to do their part and at a certain level, I will not participate in bad choices.

I think that means saying, "I don't care what time it is... call me, I'll come pick you up from a party if you've had something to drink and you won't be in trouble (but we will have a long talk about how much and why you are drinking the next day)." I will tell them its a team effort and their jobs as members of this family is support each other if one of them starts to make bad choices (around drugs, eating, alcohol, etc.).

I will tell them I'm sorry they never met my father who died years before they were born, but that the choices he made where not good ones and if he had lived, they would never have really met him anyway.

Kel

[PreSchool Mama]

My Dad died eight months ago. He had been partially paralyzed for 11 years before his death, and that was the only time in his life that I can recall him being sober. Well, you're not going to be able to pour a drink for yourself when you're completely dependent on another to take care of your basic needs, I guess.

When he died, surprisingly enough, I cried. Not because he was dead, but because of the father I never had.

His sister tells me I was his favorite, that he doted on me when I was a baby. I only learned to walk at two, because he would never set me down on the ground, she says.

Too bad I can't remember all that. All I remember are the daily violent outbursts against my mom, myself and my brother, but mostly against my mom.

His life was wasted no doubt, but he left us with such deep scars. My mom is a shell of a woman after years of abuse, and I only found peace after I met my husband, an incredible guy who's, I am glad to say, nothing like my father.

I think I forgive him , and I know it was his weakness, not his fault. But, I still feel cheated out of a childhood. When my friends in school were talking about their "annoying" protective Dads, I dreaded going home everyday to see a new cycle of abuse.

No matter how much he loved me, he snatched away my childhood, and it's impossible to ever forget that.

[Anon for today]

My sister stole pain medications from my father, who needed them because he had terminal bone cancer.

I struggle every day not to judge her for it.

[anon for today]

Timely post -- my hubby and I *just this week* told his father that he is cut off from us and his grandson until he gets sober. My MIL is standing firm with us and is requesting a trial separation if he doesn't get off the booze. I'm in the have-no-sympathy phase because he (my FIL) has ruined the last four family gatherings because of his drinking -- the latest one being Christmas after WE spent 12 hours one-way in the car just to visit them. Frankly, I'm finished with his behavior and have no compassion for the choices he makes. PP have used rhetoric such as "disease" and "weakness" but right now I'm so angry because I spent a week watching him make the decision every single day to open a bottle of vodka at 12 noon, right while his 3-year-old grandson sat playing in the next room. He was conscious of his choices, has a great family and job, and is apparently using booze to cover up some internal turmoil going on with him. Rather than a disease and weakness, I see his alcoholism as a selfish, self-indulgent, unreflective, and disengaged response to his world. I see his mental problems as more the disease -- not the alcohol abuse (the abuse just seems like some sort of conscious coping mechanism rather than a weakness or disease).
Someday perhaps I'll be able to be in the same room with him but I don't see that happening for a long, long time.

[Jill]

A funeral for me this week as well. My lovely 41 year old neighbor was killed last week, leaving behind a beautiful 13 year old daughter who really needs her mom as she enters her teen years.

But she won't have her. All because an idiot who was high and drunk behind the wheel of a semi crossed the center line, and hit her head on at around 50 mph.

The ONLY good thing is that she was killed nearly instantly, and that by some miracle, her daughter wasn't with her as she usually was.

I have no patience for substance abusers this week.

[Jan]

I am overwhelmed by all the pain reflected in these posts. Life is such a hard road sometimes. My heart goes out to all of you coping with some difficulties.

@Alma, I was so moved by your comment. Thank you for this touching insight: "sometimes the job is just to witness, and sometimes that's enough. Not every problem will be solved, not every life will be transformed, not every person will make changes that result in a healthier life. The deck is stacked against some folks more than others for all kinds of reasons. And so, sometimes what is most important is that those folks have been seen, that their lives and its upheaval, its chaos, its pain, its destruction has not gone unnoticed. And even if that person is unable to give voice to the importance that someone has seen them, their way in the world and sometimes out of the world has been witnessed. ... Bearing witness to the intrinsic dignity in the human person, whether it is found in a life greatly fulfilled or one that has been hobbled by circumstance or choice."

Waste comes in so many forms. I see my MIL, who is a professional victim (the whole world has DONE HER WRONG and it's NOT HER FAULT and it's ALL SO UNFAIR and she NEVER GETS A BREAK etc etc etc), and I think her life is a waste of a bright, friendly woman. And yes, I struggle with how I will explain her choices to my children and, more importantly, whether or not to encourage them to interact with (and maybe be influenced by) her. I distance myself from toxic people as much as I can; why would I not encourage my children to do the same?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Parenting is hard in ways I never anticipated.

[becky]

reading your post, moxie, brought back some sad memories. i'm sorry for your loss and for the frustration and sadness that you are feeling.
my father, a wonderful dad and grampa to his first grandson, was a lot like george when i was a kid. in fact he just celebrated his 23rd anniversary last week of being sober--i'm always the one who remembers and sends him a congratulatory note on that day. it was a turning point for us as a family and i am so grateful for dad's strength and mom's courage in fighting the disease so that my sister and i wouldn't have to go through what george's children went through. thank you, moxie, for your post today (and everyday!). it made me truly appreciate what i have.

[rudyinparis]

Coming back in... In regards to my FIL, anon for today says perfectly how I feel about him when she says: "Rather than a disease and weakness, I see his alcoholism as a selfish, self-indulgent, unreflective, and disengaged response to his world." I will try harder to rise above that, but my sweet husband really deserved a father and that SOB willfully deprived him of one (DHs parents divorced when he was a toddler and his Dad moved to another state, just not very interested in raising his kids.) And the conversation here has made me think about the interesting cycle my FIL and also my mother's father (who was unable to raise my mother after his wife, my Mom's mother, died at a young age)--my grandfather and my FIL were each unable to be a father because of the alcohol, and then it was the alcohol they used so they wouldn't have to realize themselves as failures. Pretty convenient.

@Julie, your description of your MIL just about broke my heart. I am so grateful that I was able to walk away from drinking and drugs when it was time for me to move on. And apart from my FIL and grandfather, who are a little too close, I do feel grief for people who become addicted.

[Carrie]

My dad is an alcoholic. It is a disease, yes, but it is also a choice. That's how I make peace with it. Yes, he had a crappy childhood and that is why he started drinking. Yes, it is genetic. But his brother stopped drinking. He never wanted it bad enough. He never loved us or himself enough to stop. Every day he makes that choice to drink, even though he can no longer walk or function and is a complete invalid.

Choices.

[sue]

Ah, alcoholism. Just thinking about it makes me feel like I'm 8 years old again. My father was (is?) an alcoholic. Thank god he was never mean or abusive, but I vividly remember the teasing on the school bus (because he would drink until he passed out on the front porch and snore so loud the whole neighborhood could hear) and the time he passed out while driving, came to, and drove home with the windshield all spider-webbed. As the oldest child (at about 9) it was my job to sit in the dark bedroom, watching him and poking him to keep him awake so he didn't go into shock, until he sobered up enough to go to the hospital without fear of prosecution. He ended up needing over 100 stitches. To my knowledge, he has been sober since the third time he wrecked the car, and my mom threatened to leave him and take us, but my stepmother insists on keeping liquor in the house and just the thought of it terrifies me.

Sadly, we have finally started to connect with each other in mutual concern about my little sister, who has mental health and substance abuse issues (and a 2 month old baby).

It's taken me 10 years of living with him, but I can finally watch my husband drink a glass of scotch without feeling panicky (he's not a heavy drinker, maybe has a glass of scotch every month or so). My children are still very young, but I struggle with what to tell them when they get older. My maternal grandfather was also an alcoholic, and died before I was born - I'm very concerned for my children because I see this as a familial problem, and they (fortunately) will not have the scarring experiences to frighten them away from it.

Condolences for your loss, Moxie. It's never easy to see a life end sadly.

[Salexuel]

Oh, hugs to all of you!

I think that Moxie's question is also, in part, the answer: to keep working on ourselves to make sure that we don't end up wasting our own lives. This may take the form of not spending time with those in our (extended) family who hurt us (in whatever form), and/or it may take the form of being sure that we do have those conversations with our kid(s) about drinking/drugs, etc. I think that being present to our emotions, honoring them, and then going from there with what we feel we need to do/say/be is crucial. That, and chocolate.

[Foster]

Makes me wonder why guys like that live and live and live and guys like my dad, who was AWESOME, die young for no good reason.

[SarcastiCarrie]

Carrie - This is the saddest thing I read here: "He never loved us or himself enough to stop." It must be heart-wrenching to think your own father didn't love you (enough).
I nearly married a verbally and mentally abusive alcoholic and to this day, I do not think it is genetic. I just think alcoholic families are a toxic environment to raise high-functioning non-alcoholic kids. And, sure it's a disease, but when someone has diabetes or cancer and doesn't get treatment for it and gets sick, you still think, "If only she'd gotten the treatment instead of being afraid of the chemo or the insulin or whatever."

And I have heard it called all of the following:
wake
visitation
calling hours
(and least often in the Midwest) viewing

[hedra]

I tend to think of alcholism as both a toxic environment and a genetic disease. Tendency towards won't make you one, and family history won't make you one, necessarily. But either puts you more at risk, and both creates additional risk. Nature and nurture, basically. Diabetes is much the same, we're finding - diet and lifestyle can trigger it, but it's more likely if you have genes for it, too.

The alcoholics and addicts in my family have all been sober/in-recovery for a good 15-20 years. Which is nice. They've all met their grandkids (okay, those who are old enough to do so), and they all play sane, normal, reasonably healthy (but still normal enough to not be saints) roles in their family. Various crises had to happen before each got on the wagon. A huge amount of support was needed, at the right time, in the right form, to keep them there. Having that all come together is a miracle, pretty much.

They still caused their damage, though, some of it permanent. You don't get over Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, so one of the sibs is stuck with the repercussions for life. She's doing fantastic for anyone, let alone working through FAS. But that's also partly due to the family working tirelessly and selflessly to ensure she had the skills by rote even if she didn't have them automatically. The amount of emotional resources brought to bear for her are staggering. That others who struggle with such issues don't get that isn't surprising - I'm *still* astonished by it.

Moxie, you see with kind eyes, and a compassionate heart. I hope that your witness was valuable to his family.

[paola]

@hedra,

What are some of the 'symptoms' of FAS? I've heard small for birth, slow growth are one of them. What should we look for in our children? I'm not worried for my child as I hardly drank at all, and the occasional wine was at the end of the 3rd trimester, but I'm curious anyway

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to remind everyone that there's help out there for people who have had their lives affected by someone else's drinking.

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/english.html

I grew up with an alcoholic dad and an alcoholic grandmother, and both of my parents had alcoholism elsewhere in their families. We never really talked about it but the effects lingered on long after my dad moved out. When my oldest daughter was about 10 months old, I hit my personal "bottom" and just about lost my kid and my marriage. I was suffering from PPD (I know now, thanks Moxie!) and was just so exhausted from trying to manage my own life and that of everyone around me. Fortunately, I found Al-Anon and got other help I needed as well. I really credit Al-Anon with helping me save my marriage and possibly my life.

Help is out there!!

[anon for me this time]

couldn't get to this yesterday, but wanted to read the comments first. moxie, my sympathies for the loss of your neighbor- what a gift to have had you to witness his life. all of us, even in our worst states, are valuable and not worthless and our existence makes us worthy of recognition- i'm glad that you were that person for george.

i completely understand the tension and heartache that surrounds the concept of disease/choice/powerlessness with regard to substance abuse.

for me, on the one hand, i can absolutely see with compassionate eyes the abstract concept of powerlessness to compulsive behavior being a genetic disorder- especially when coupled with coming from an environment of abuse. some people unfortunately get a tough hand dealt and simply have little to no control over their actions, and get caught up in a cycle of abuse that they simply cannot or will not fight. some people don't have the tools, the support, the drive, the insight or the courage to climb out of the hole they are in- even when they know what they are doing is hurting others and themselves. hopelessness (despair) is called a deadly sin for a reason- and in my faith, is one of the only things that truly keeps you disconnected from god and each other. in an abstract way, i can surely have sympathy and compassion for those who feel as though for whatever reason they have no hope, and can in some way understand their response to despair. we don't ever really know anyone's demons but our own.

on the other hand, my family is riddled with alcoholism, and i've seen how it tears apart relationships and ruins lives. growing up with a dad who drank excessively and eventually used drugs, and my sister went down the exact same road, i've had to deal with an awful lot of trust and control issues and it is SO.VERY.DIFFICULT. to forgive and heal. it's so fucking hard not to harbor resentment against what he did to my family, so hard not to keep in perspective the alcoholics (even recovered) natural tendency to have little to no impulse control- so even in recovery many still abuse caffeine, cigarettes, money, etc. so friggin frustrating to hear of the latest drama and not want to shake her or scream "what in gods name is wrong with you?" right in her face. my faith also teaches forgiveness, and that, for me, is the hardest thing of all sometimes.

i absolutely believe it's linked genetically, but i think most control-compulsive behaviors are in some way physiological, so i feel lucky that it didn't seem to land in my DNA in a pronounced way. i was so scarred and scared of being like family members that i waited to really drink til i was well into college- like many others i used minor drugs, too, and never developed a "problem"- thank god. it can be a slippery slope to be sure and one that i keep a really close eye on.

strength and courage to all of you who come from families and relationships harmed by substance abuse- i think our awareness is our first line of defense in protecting our children from repeating family cycles of abuse, and our attentiveness to being worthy to live the life we've been gifted with.

[PEANUT]

Bless you Moxie for caring-your a person I would like to meet. I am from the UK and I am grateful for the stressed baby day I found your site. Its great.
I spent the day today with my alcoholic parents - I left my 7 month old son with them for the 1st time ever,just for a couple of hours. My father was in his dressing gown as always complaining about being cold, smoking cigarette after cigarette..... He is 70. My Mum was wearing the same clothes she has worn the last 5 times i have seen her. It breaks my heart.
Your post and all of the ones above made me realise 2 things though. One-that they are suffering with a disease and they are not in control. Two - that they won't be around forever and I should just make the most of them.
My full respect to everyone who has posted on this - addiction affects so many lives in so many ways. I suppose we should just try to be sympathetic - but i find it so hard!!

[hedra]

@paola, there are many possibles. I'd think the best place to search would be sciencedaily.com, where the latest research is noted. Kidshealth.org is also good. I know that eye-blink rates are different for kids with alcohol exposure prenatally, and that a few binge events aren't generally noticable or major for later development, while repeated (like, daily or several times a week) drinking even at a low level does tend to show up, though it can be quite minor, or more significant. And it crosses over with issues that show up from genetics, or from environmental toxins, etc.

Okay, now must run!

[Pamela Gryski]

Is this referring to George Devito?

[Welcome to Hostway Motor Inn]

I've been thinking since she got here about how our relationship has changed in the past few years. When my older son was born seven years ago she became my main advisor on parenting and being a mother