Last night I met a mom of a 7-week-old. We were talking about how things were going for her, and she said that she was wondering when she was going to start enjoying it, and that she woke up every morning with a sense of dread and a feeling of "How am I going to make it through today?" We were talking about her baby, and she seemed not to know what to say about him.
We talked some more, and it became pretty apparent that she either had mild PPD or was on the border of it. We talked about some things she could do that start feeling better immediately (exercise that works your core--so T-Tapp, pilates, or yoga, Omega 3s at 3,000mg a day, and B complex vitamins) and asked her to talk to her doctor in a few days whether or not she was feeling better, just to get a professional helping her.
As we were leaving, she told me she was glad she'd talked to me, because she'd thought she was just being a cry-baby about it.
That's the thing about PPD. When you're sinking into it, you don't say "Aha! I have this illness called PPD. Let me get some help." You just think things suck and you don't feel very good. And, yeah, most people aren't really loving the gig at 7 weeks, so you feel like maybe it's all normal. But why is it so hard for you? And if you tell your partner and s/he doesn't know what to do so s/he just tells you "it'll get better" then you think maybe it really is just weakness or being a whiner.
It's not. In the first two weeks post-partum, your hormones will be whacked out and you'll laugh and cry for no reason. Past that point, though, if you feel dread all the time, and don't feel joy several times during each day, you're sinking into PPD.
YOU ARE NOT WEAK. Your hormones are out of whack, and you have a treatable illness. You can probably get some relief by making some small changes, you may need meds but you won't have to stop nursing unless you want to, and there is nothing wrong with you as a person. You are suffering from a physical illness.
Over on the left is a PDF you can download with some suggestions of things you can do to help lift the greyness (to me depression always felt like being rolled in that pink fiberglass insulation--I was still there on the inside but I just couldn't seem to interface with the rest of the world) and give yourself a little bit of breathing room. Download it, show it to your partner, and tell him or her that you need help. Start with one or two of the things on the list, and get your partner to call your provider. They will help you.
Comments? Support? Requests for support?
I've finally had time to read this post and am so glad that I did. I love this website. Thanks to Moxie and all of the supportive commenters.
I'm in the thick of this right now and am totally going crazy. I am so sick of taking buckets of supplements, trying to be positive and pulling myself up by my boot straps every morning. Blah.
I had my third baby this past August only 8 weeks after we moved across the country. It has been a very, very rough go. Our little one is allergic to dairy and eggs but it took months of screaming and zero sleep before we figured this out (thank to some help from Moxie). I feel sick that it took so long to help him but at least we have it sorted out now. He's physically better but still doesn't sleep more than 3 hours in a row at night. My other two were sleeping 10-12 hours by now so I'm really wondering when on earth he will sleep already. The first thing that anyone asks me is if he is sleeping yet. I am so sick of talking about it. I"m even more tired of the useless advice that everyone feels so free to give or the "glad it's not me" responses that I so often get.
This was a very unexpected pregnancy. I am so thankful to have my son and would not change it but there are days when it is so overwhelming and exhausting that I find myself thinking, "I didn't ask for this". It's just really, really hard. I left the life that we knew behind. My girlfriends, our amazing church, our street that had 35 children living on it plus all of our older children's friends, all our hangouts... basically everything familiar. I miss my life and I am sick to death of being exhausted and behind all of the time.
Thank you for a place to vent because I just don't really have one right now.
Posted by: Rachel | January 29, 2008 at 12:15 PM
Rachel- lie when people ask if he's sleeping yet. Or say something vague like "he's sleeping just like a baby his age should". Seriously, I did this for awhile when I was sick of sleep advice.
Maybe you can find a breastfeeding or postpartum support group in your new town? In sounds like you need some real life hugs, and those are good places to get them.
Posted by: Cloud | January 29, 2008 at 12:32 PM
@ Emma, I definitely don't think there's anything weird about experiencing PPD symptoms at the 2 year mark. I mean, this raising-kids-business is such a rollercoaster ride. Some days are good, some days are horrible. Some phases are good, some are horrible. FWIW, just these past few weeks I've been feeling unusually overwhelmed and tapped out, and my kids are 4 and almost 2. But I have cycles of feeling like I have things actually kind of under control. Kind of. (I find low expectations are the name of the parenting game, in many ways.)
As for thoughts of suicide, I'm NOT a health professional. So with that disclaimer I'll say: Let the thoughts come into your mind, whatever there are, and then let them go. Let them wash away. These thoughts don't make you a bad person, or a weak person, and you are definitely not a crybaby. Human beings are so complex. Thinking a thing does not make it so. If the thoughts come back, center yourself, breathe deep, accept your thoughts and then try to let them go. If this is too difficult or you feel to deep "in" to be able to accept and let go, then please please PLEASE call a suicide prevention hotline. There is no shame in this! Please reach out to people you trust and let them be there for you.
Posted by: rudyinparis | January 29, 2008 at 01:39 PM
Rachel - You are in the thick of it, and it sucks! I second Cloud in saying that you should look for some sort of support group. Maybe through LLL? As for talking about the non-sleeping, I got to the point where I just would just shake my head and say to people, "I don't want to talk about it." That answered their question about whether or not she was sleeping and got them to shut up about it. And things will get better. They really will. It's just a phase! And until the phase passes, feel free to vent.
Posted by: caramama | January 29, 2008 at 01:41 PM
Rachel, I hate HATE HATE the sleep questions. Especially when they phrase it as "Is he a good sleeper?" I finally got to the point (after 2 years) where I now smile sweetly and say "I hate the idea of good or bad sleepers. We're fine." Shuts 'em up good.
On a more serious note, to Emma, Rachel, Tired, and Anon: There are lots of us here looking out for you, and lots of us have been where you are. Please post or e-mail if you need someone to talk to (and regular posters, please keep checking back).
Posted by: Lisa | January 29, 2008 at 02:15 PM
I'm coming in late (and overly long) to this, but here goes ...
That line between sleep deprivation and PPD is such a murky one. My twins are eight months old now and I feel as if I have had PPD waxing and waning since they were born. I have lots of risk factors: history of clinical depression, infertility and IVF, multiples, plus a big marital issue that cropped up when the twins were five weeks old and that we are still dealing with the effects of. But because I feel at my worst on the days when I've had little sleep (like last night: < five hours, for the second night in a row), I can never decide whether it really is only sleep deprivation. Night wakings to breastfeed twins (sometimes they tag team, which means feeding every two or so hours, while other times one sleeps through till about 5am but the other ALWAYS wakes for at least two feeds, so even a good night is a bad night) plus sleep regressions plus recurrent insomnia ... ugh.
The naps are the real killer. When I'm trying to settle both at the same time and they both just scream and I can't help them simultaneously, or when I get one off to sleep and then the other starts crying and I start panicking ("OMG, she's going to wake her sister, they'll both be screaming again, the asleep twin will only do a short nap now because that's what happens when the awake twin screams for ages, now they're going to be out of sync and I'll have one baby up and one baby down all day, when am I going to shower, when am I going to eat, when am I going to get to just take a deep breath"). On a sleep-deprived day like this I inevitably end up either crying along with them or shouting at them to go to sleep, which clearly is utterly useless (but thank god for this site for letting me know I was not alone in doing this).
The worst thing, though, is the sense of failure and that I am ruining my children because I just don't have the patience sometimes. I feel like an utterly hopeless mother when I sob to my baby crying in her cot, not going to sleep, "Why are you doing this to me?" instead of feeling compassion for her being upset and trying to help her calm down. Each time I raise my voice in frustration I feel I am permanently damaging my relationship with them. I frequently wonder whether they are securely attached to me and if I smile at them and they don't smile back, I feel paranoid. I have spent hours reading online articles about secure attachment and attachment disorders, trying to figure out whether my girls are okay. I used to read a lot of attachment parenting material, too, but it is so sadly lacking in info/advice about how to achieve AP goals with the challenges of multiples that I found it was just increasing my anxiety and guilt.
I will be patient and loving and calm every minute of the day for days in a row, but then I will go through bad sleep deprivation and snap (usually around nap time or bedtime) just once, crying or raising my voice, and feel I have undone all the good I have achieved in the preceding days. And then all it takes is one time when they don't smile back at me, or they catch sight of me and then just look past me as if I don't matter, and I'm convinced they hate me and think I'm a hopeless mother. I'm so thankful that breastfeeding has worked out for us because if I didn't have that one thing that I KNOW I can do that their dad can't, I don't know how I'd handle it.
I hope one day to find confidence in my mothering, but I have no idea how to do so.
Posted by: exhausted | January 29, 2008 at 08:00 PM
hello all- just writing send some support to all the mamas who have been suffering. my little guy is 8 months now, but i've been receiving treatment for PPD since he was 2 weeks old.
please if you're feeling awful and feeling like things aren't right, they probably aren't. you deserve to feel better. you deserve to enjoy your life. get help, for yourself and your family. it is temporary, it is not your fault, and you will be the old you again. only maybe better.
Posted by: lisa | January 29, 2008 at 10:40 PM
exhausted, I don't think you are permanently hurting your twins, and I think they are probably attached just fine. You are just in that 8 month hell period. I only have one baby to deal with and I thought things were really tough at about 8 months. She was fussier than usual, her naps were unpredictable and often difficult to get, and her nighttime sleep was just crap. Things have recently improved greatly (Pumpkin is 9.5 months). Some of that may be that she's coming out of a fussy period/wonder week thing. Some of that may be some reasonably successful night-weaning we've been doing, which has greatly improved my sleep. Some of that may be that her two front teeth have finally come in. Who knows.
Anyway, my point is that you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. Show me a mother who claims to never lose it and cry or snap at her baby in frustration, and I'll show you a liar. I think a lot of us struggle to find our mothering confidence, too. I know I do. The images society shows us of motherhood are not realistic- they are either of always perfect moms or some cliche "bad mom". I think the reality is that we are imperfect people raising babies in an imperfect world, and that most parenting books are too black and white for that situation.
Cut yourself some slack, talk to your husband, mother, best friend, lactation counselor... someone. Tell them you need some encouragement. They probably think you are doing a great job and just don't realize that you need to hear it (as my Hubby would say "that's obvious, why would I say that?") See if you can get someone to babysit for a few hours (ideally around naptime- nothing helps my sanity more than outsourcing a nap or two when things are tough). You are doing a great job with your twins, but you shouldn't try to do it alone.
Posted by: Cloud | January 29, 2008 at 11:33 PM
hi exhausted- first of all, amazing props to you for breastfeeding twins! holy shit! i was barely able to bf one baby with my sanity intact, so i am awestruck in your accomplishment. i'll bet hedra would be an awesome resource for you personally for many many questions w/ regards to multiples. go ahead and give her a shout-out, i know she is an amazing source of support.
second, i would certainly support you that your children are definitely growing up securely attached to you. the most important thing you can do to ensure secure attachment is be aware of you childrens needs (you obviously are) AND respond to them consistently and in a reasonable amount of time (which you clearly do- or else you'd not care to intervene to help them sleep or not). just reading your short account convinces me that you are doing both of those things- and very well, especially considering there are TWO babies to deal with. yeesh.
to be honest, i don't think our generation of mothers gives ourselves enough credit that we are doing a good enough job being mothers. the whole theory of secure attachment first proposed by the researchers bowlby and ainsworth has been really mis-appropriated by current pop-pediatricians and pop-psychologists to sell their message of child-rearing. this was never the intention of the original research- honestly, you have to be a SERIOUSLY checked-out parent to have a kid who isn't securely attached. i mean, *rarely* responding to cries, rarely holding your baby, rarely comforting them, or responding to their emotional and physical needs. you end up with a baby who either doesn't care when mom is out of the room and avoids her when she comes back (anxious/avoidant), a baby who freaks out when mama leaves and seeks comfort when she returns (secure), or a baby who stays close to mama, freaks when she leaves then rejects her when she returns to comfort (anxious/resistant). and even the kids who don't grow up securely attached aren't destined to be serial killers, for goodness sake, just a *little* less able to interact socially, etc. and plenty of securely attached kids grow into adults who still struggle with intimate relationships, etc. so don't hang it all on attachment theories, you know? trust that you are the very best mama for your girls, trust in that, and you all will be ok. just another imperfect person raising imperfect people.
and moreso, most sociological data to date supports that Xer moms are in fact much more likely to be more involved and attached to their children in response to what they perceive was distance/less attachment from their own parents during childhood. (which isn't even necessarily the case, but it's the *perception* of the reality that is the important thing here.)
i would say the facts that a) you are spending time looking into this, b) coming to site like this one looking for support and c) even imagining that you aren't doing a *good enough* job really shows me that you are a remarkable mother who cares very deeply about her girls and is more than likely very securely attached to them (and them to you).
if you are even a little bit nerdy like me, you could google ainsworth and bowlby and get their original research summaries- totally untainted in the sense that they weren't trying to sell books or a website or a product and that their research was peer-reviewed and accepted as general psychological theory then and now to give yourself a break.
i would say, that if more than 1/2 the time, your girls smile back when you smile to them, if they are generally "happy" (taking into account their own personalities of course) babies, then you are on the right track. i promise you they ADORE YOU. so stick their little booties in the swing/bouncer/entertainment device alternative, throw on the TV, and go take that shower and have something to eat. do it every day, even if they are unhappy for a 1/2 an hour. it's ok, no person can be expected to be happy 24/7. what matters is they will always know that they love you, that you are there for them, that they are loved and safe. because they are. take care.
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 30, 2008 at 12:01 AM
exhausted - You sound like a wonderful mother. I truly mean that. If you were yelling at them and snapping and didn't care about how that affected them, then I'd be worried. But you obviously care to the point where you are being too hard on yourself. My SIL has twins and has been through similar things. Both of her twins are very attached to her and the love between them all is obvious. She felt much better once she got on medication for her PPD--I'm not saying you need to be medicated, but I think you should seriously consider at the very least seeing a therapist. When I start telling my therapist similar things about how I feel what I do isn't perfect and how it will affect my kid, she makes me realize that everything is going to be fine and I'm only human and a pretty good mother. You are too. In fact, you are the best mom for your twins. And things really will get better!
pnuts mama - Thanks for the names of the original researchers of attachment parenting. I'm going to look into them. :-)
Posted by: caramama | January 30, 2008 at 11:32 AM
Exhausted - I agree with the other pps, you sound like you're a great mom. I understand completely the feelings of failure, frustration, anger, sleep deprivation & insomnia... and I only have ONE to feed and get to sleep. You are amazing - breast feeding too, crikey!! This job is hard to do, I can't imagine what it must be like with twins.
I have also told my little one to STFU and then felt the guilt after. You're not alone. I bet a huge percentage of moms have had a little vent in front of their kids. We can be terribly hard on ourselves, focussing on the stuff we feel bad about rather than our successes (like making it through the day).
You are not ruining your babies. They will be attached, particularly as you are breast feeding. I asked about bonding earlier in this thread and was reassured by the responses - have a look back. My hubby and SIL were left to cry in their cots whilst they were going through the newborn fussy phase. My SIL cried for 3 HOURS every evening for 3 MONTHS. My hubby was a nice surprise as he only had to cry for 6 weeks. My in laws throught they were doing the right thing by leaving them to it as they seemed inpossible to calm down. In spite of all that sobbing, they have turned into upstanding members of society who love their parents.
I think you're doing a great job for those babies and that you need some help...anyone would! Speak to your hubby, speak to your doc, it's important that you get some support.
Posted by: sam | January 30, 2008 at 02:50 PM
Incoming! Long series of long posts on this subject, responding to different comments at different points (work is crazier than before).
@tired - I agree with both the formula-isn't-evil and the 'ideals can shoot us in the foot' comments.
I know how much I resisted formula, myself. Stupidly so, as it turns out. Gave mashed bananas as a 'bridge-the-gap' food, and ta-DA! M reacted badly to banana. ARGH. If you've got allergies in the family, and you want to avoid causing any reactions, it's pricey but fully-hydrolyzed formula is
best. Elecare, and I think Alimentum (gah, how is that spelled?). Not partially hydrolyzed, fully. The absolutely lowest reactivity available. Won't set anything off, used for kids with really severe problems, so extra gentle on baby. And hopefully, gentler on your psyche, too. Just expensive - but if you're doing one feed a day so you can sleep, that's not insane.
Doing just one formula feed per day can give you a huge break. Yeah, no bottle yet. Try cup, spoon, if you have avent bottles the covers make good cups (flexible). I know a number of babies that were cup-fed while mom was out (sleep, or work). Some eventually took bottles, others never did, but they all got fed.
It also occurred to me that you may be in a transition point yourself - the beating yourself up thing may be just a form of grieving the ideal mother you assumed you'd be. That is a world of hurt to let go, especially if you were overcoming things your own mother (or peers/relatives) did as mothers. When you let go of that ideal, sometimes it seems like you'll fall all the
way to the other end, to the horrible/awful mother, the failure. BUT, that's not so. When you let go of the ideal, you only drop a short distance, and the landing, while awkward, isn't as bad as you fear. It's in 'reality', and it is okay. You'll keep your ideals to aim for and use as guides and as a way to assess ideas to try (I tend to try from the AP end of the spectrum, but work my way down the list in increments until something works, rather than starting at the far end of the parental philosophy world and work my way toward AP), but you'll live where you breathe, not in the stratosphere.
I have yet to meet an AP-ideal mother who never once yelled. Who never cried because she couldn't cope, who never EVER had to step away from the baby when the baby needed something. It's a wee bit easier to stick closer to the ideals when there's only one child, but you'll either adjust your
approach now, or later if you have another child. And that doesn't mean you've lost the ideal or the ideal wasn't worthy. It just means that no matter what the ideal, reality isn't ideal. Reality is just reality. And
life is messy, and imperfect, and imperfect parents are human and normal, and that's actually what we've evolved to thrive under. Researchers keep showing that 'perfect' parents - who through herculean effort manage to not break down, never blow it, never totally crash-and-burn, never let their kids down, never make a mistake (or extremely rarely, since even the
outliers still aren't entirely perfect) create children with enormously fragile psyches. Blowing it over and over and *never* getting back in tune, or spending an entire childhood with predominantly miserable experiences is also a problem - but you're not doing that, you can't be, because you've just STARTED. There's years of measuring to get to, and in the end, we can't even tell what specific things we did that helped, most of the time, not for sure. You're struggling to get back in tune, and then blowing it again, picking up the ball and then dropping it, getting it right once, then not being able to figure out
what right even IS the next time, etc. Just like me. Just like 99% of the moms out there. And that's not only normal, that's optimal. It isn't the messing up that counts, it is the un-messing up, the coming back, the trying again. It isn't breaking the ideal/perfect attachment response, it
is re-establishing it after messing it up. It is the return to good after bad, that cycle of up and down and up again, that makes our kids healthy functional people. As my mother often said, it only takes ONE good moment in the day to make it a successful day. ONE. It could be just a few seconds, but one counts. Some days, she stayed up past our bedtimes to get that one moment, because there just wasn't one in the entire day up to then. And some days, even that didn't work, and she tried again the next
day.
Anyway, not sure if any of that made sense. But I hope something in there did.
Posted by: hedra | January 31, 2008 at 04:44 AM
@emma and the other twin moms out there:
good resources for twin moms who lean AP (but hello, I know NO twin moms who can checklist as AP down the list one end to the other over any reasonable span of time in the first few years - often not even a few hours - something's gotta give!): try apmultiples on yahoo groups. Karen Gromada (author of Mothering Multiples) hangs out there a bit. FABO reassurance that your kids will be fine, even though you may not feel like it. Good heavens, the number of
'attachment parenting failures' we have had collectively, on that list! And yet... we still succeed. There are tons of discussions on how far we fall from our ideal mark, but also that by focusing on what our children need (and yet not being stupid or insane about our own needs), we'll keep finding creative ways to parent our way 'out' of those gah-hellish-crisis spaces. They've got a parenting book club going as well, which is helpful even if you didn't read the book to start with (help you pick which to read! In two paragraph increments, in the bathroom, every other day, if it is a good week... ;) ). Loads of activity there, in bursts, so read online or go the digest route if you don't want 100 emails every few days.
IMHO, many parents get stuck thinking that there's a set point in our kids brains, that if we somehow manage to be great parents, they will be fine, and never fall from that, and if we're sucky parents (AT ANY POINT) we're somehow setting their success at zero, erasing any good from before, and preventing any good later from taking root. But we're not. We're JUST the parents. They're them. We can set up some things, but they'll set up others, and they're all built from sand - always moving, shifting, being blown around by other forces, settling out, drifting in various directions. Kind of like the George post from today - You can't blame his life on his parents.
Our brains are way more organic and active and responsive than we tend to think.
I think we also get stuck in taking our 'failures' as parents personally. And
that tends to put the focus on the wrong aspect of the process - the hurt and pain on both sides. Yeah, it is there. But no, that's not the great end-point of life/parenting. This isn't about making sure they never are unhappy or uncomfortable or angry or hurt, or that it is never our fault if they are. It is about setting them up to be able to handle those feelings, and being responsible parties in relationship with them. Handling the problems is about action, and thinking, not just feeling. Which means
PROBLEM-SOLVE. Don't fret about how much harm you might possibly be causing
(because likely you'll be wrong, anyway). Instead, say (for example, I'll
use me), 'whoa, I seem to be yelling a lot. What do I need to not yell so much?'
For us, the yelling comes at some obvious points:
1) Sleep deprived/lack of help.
2) Depressed.
3) Child has outgrown the parenting approach/skills.
4) Parent mis-estimated the ability level of the child. (This is a HUGE area
- we tend to over-estimate their normal developmental abilities.)
5) Parent assumed that the one-step-forward the child made was permanent.
6) Child is tired, in a fussy stage or disequilibrium stage, or child is coming down with a cold/illness.
All of those basically put the parents expectation at odds with the child's
behavioral ability. ALL of them can be managed. And none of them are obvious until you're right in the middle of it. Yelling, for me, is my signpost that I need to do a self-check and a them-check. It isn't an
opportunity to beat myself up, it is an opportunity to learn something and take a step forward. I don't have time or energy to spare beating myself over it. If I do that, I'll be too tired and beat down to solve the problem.
So, problem-solving, for me: If I'm yelling about the *same things* day after day, I've either misestimated their abilities, or they've outgrown my approach. In both
cases, a bit of reading up may help. The books "your X year old" (found through this site, thank you Moxie!) and "What's Going on
in There?" and The Wonder Weeks help on the age-level-expectations set. Books like Parent Effectiveness Training and How to Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk provide new skills for the next
developmental stage up, once I figure out what that is. But often, recognizing that my expectations that they'd be different than they are, more able, are the source of the problem, and I can re-align without going any farther.
OR: If I'm yelling at a certain *time* of day, over various different things, then there's something about that time of day that's haywire. Could be I need more sleep, or they do. Could be I need to re-plan that time of day. Could be that I need to plan LESS at that time of day and roll with it
more. Where are my expectations? What are their abilities right now? What do they need? What do I need? How are those in conflict? How can we both have our needs met then? Can I prepare them better? Can I re-set my expectations? We solved the 'home-from-school-and-making-dinner yell-fest by taking it as a problem for me, and a problem for them, and solving the disconnect in needs on both sides individually. Now, they are reminded what nights I need more time/space, I remind them before they get into the house to put away their stuff right away, they clear out of the kitchen - and I've already planned dinner and am not trying to plan it while they're racing around. Now, if they forget something, I don't YELL at them, I just ask them to fix it. And they're in response more willing, more cheerful, less resistant (passive and active), and less grumpy/resentful. Win-win. And that's JUST by letting go of my anger at myself over yelling, and shifting focus to the problem. Yelling is my signpost that there IS a problem. It isn't the problem itself. Yelling goes away when the problem goes away.
The more I do this, the sooner I realize that I've got a problem, and so sometimes now it is just the bubbling up urge to yell that flags my attention and makes me stop and say 'hey, I have a problem here. You need this, and I need that, and the two don't fit together well. How can we solve your problem, AND my problem, together?' And yeah, sometimes when I start saying it, my teeth are still gritted, and sometimes I say 'I don't have the patience to handle this right now' and sometimes I don't get a
handle on it before the yelling comes out, and sometimes I try to apply a stupid bandaid response to the situation (which usually isn't relevant and uses the wrong approach but maybe works a few times until that starts failing also). All of those reactions that aren't 'problem solving right
this bloody minute' could be seen as 'failures'. I know *what* to do, but I didn't do it. (For most of infancy, the hard part is even knowing how to solve the problem! If it even CAN be solved, which sometimes it can't without further data... so absolutely NO failure there, just a problem, not a solution handy that isn't being used.) If knowing what to do and not always being able to do it is failing, I fail at least a few and up to dozens of times a day.
If I take any of these events personally, then I will waste energy that I DO NOT HAVE TO SPARE. I could beat myself up over the failures that happen every blessed day. But why? Does it help? It doesn't solve the problem. WANTING to do better makes ZERO IMPACT. The skills aren't lined up, or the
expectations aren't lined up, and that's where the problem lives. There's no 'I want to do better and magically I can'. And even working on the skills, they don't come on line instantly. They slip under pressure, they get forgotten and remembered too late. And gradually they add in, if they're working, or if they feel right even if they're not making an obvious dent. That takes time. And not 'days' but weeks and weeks and weeks. For the hard things, maybe years. And for each child, start again, because the expectations differ, and the reality differs, and the things that work differ.
Taking care of PPD is a problem-solving thing, too. Feeling miserable and like a failure and so forth is a problem. The actions we identify as the 'reason we feel this way' (yelling, etc.) may or may not be the real problem. Take action on the PPD, and then handle each other kind of issue
separately, once you have the energy back to do so. If you can't get to where you can problem-solve effectively, that is itself the first problem to solve. Get help solving that, and THEN tackle the rest of it.
By the way, for multiples... my mom has always had extraordinary capacity to engage with children, to play endlessly, to negotiate, wrangle, and manage them when they're small. HUGE patience for that. After seven kids, she thought, 'eh, it's two kids, how hard could twins be?' But she found it astonishingly hard. Exhausting to the point that two hours was more than enough, thanks! It's our normal, now, but it takes a good long time to get to normal.
Posted by: hedra | January 31, 2008 at 05:03 AM
RE: the attachment research. I definitely recommend reading the actual research. And keep in mind that it hasn't stopped yet. It's still being researched, and refined, and fine-tuned. The caregivers in the original works on the subject were all women, so there's a tendency to interpret from that more than is necessary - so the 'philosophy of attachment' tends to lean toward women as primary. But anyone can be the primary, in a pinch, and attachment bonds form beyond one individual (I got into a great discussion with an attachment researcher once, who said there was even a band of kids in a displaced persons camp who formed normal attachment bonds with each other, despite them all having lost their parents and the oldest being I think eight years old, and the youngest being infants that the kids 'collected' when their mothers died after childbirth - they were followed through adulthood, and all had normal attachment function - without an adult who was there for them. It's fascinating stuff.)
I also like Alan Schore's work - Attachment and the origin of the self, the link between neurobiology and neuropsychology, how the big things we do don't matter as much as we think, and the little things we do unconsciously just because WE have normal attachment function can play a huge role. Even if we're depressed. And how the reconnecting makes more difference than the disruptions. Loads of fascinating stuff that is really the basis for the 'normal IS optimal, and normal includes blowing it, and sometimes REALLY blowing it'.
Posted by: hedra | January 31, 2008 at 05:09 AM
Thank you.
I'll be linking this soon.
Posted by: FireMom | January 31, 2008 at 02:52 PM
hedra: I love this "As my mother often said, it only takes ONE good moment in the day to make it a successful day." I'm going to remember that (as well as so much else you've said) and remind myself of that every day, because it speaks to some issues I'm having lately. Also the stuff about the yelling. Thanks!
Posted by: caramama | February 02, 2008 at 11:05 AM
@ Cloud, pnuts mama, caramama, sam, hedra - thank you so much for your words of kindness, wisdom and support. (I hope you all see this post.) your comments really hit the spot on a bad day/bad week and there is a lot of food for thought and ideas for me to mull over. I love this place. pnuts mama (congrats on your pregnancy btw, I've been following your mentions of it since your original POAS post!), I am a nerd and I'll look up the bowlby/ainsworth stuff (I've come across many references to them but haven't yet tracked down good sources; I'll hunt down some original ones soon). hedra, I love the "blowing it"/reconnecting attachment aspects you raised. definite food for thought. I did sign up for the AP multiples group back when the girls were tiny, but I ended up being swamped by the number of posts and felt a bit overwhelmed. I may try the digest form instead. incidentally, my mum is going to be looking after the girls a day a week when I go back to work in april - I'm concerned that she'll find a full day as exhausting as your mum does! gulp. I'm especially concerned about how she'll deal with the difficulties of settling two for naps, etc. but she doesn't seem concerned - yet.
I'll definitely try to get on top of this is-it-or-isn't-it-PPD thing.
thanks again, all, and take care.
Posted by: exhausted aka andrea | February 03, 2008 at 05:45 AM
I also think about what a tremendous and supportive service you are doing Moxie. Your website has helped me hour by hour as well as day by day. However, I want to also thank everyone who have posted messages about PPD. I can't say it enough: "mothering/parenting is NOT a competition". And talking about PPD and the other REALITIES of parenting, especially the first "blissful" months is vital to the health of women.
I, too had a OB/GYN who never once asked me about PPD during and after the birth of my 12 week old son. And this was after I told both of them (a practice) about my history with it with my now 5 yr old daughter. At all of my follow up visits, I asked them, "so - are you going to talk to me about PPD?" It was amazing. And yes - it is true that your child's pediatrician is better at asking and picking up on the signs (in fact each time, they did ask). Apparently, it is now a law in Illinois that pediatricians need to start screening for PPD, but the law doesn't indicate at which visit. I suggested each visit for the 1st year - it only takes a minute or 2 to ask some questions or pick up on it.
Anyway, I digress. I really wanted to thank all of you for taking the time to post messages. I am indeed battling PPD again. The only saving grace was that my husband and I recognized the signs sooner than last time and I have started 50mg's of Zoloft (and I just started the fish oil thanks to so many suggestions to do so!). I am getting there I think. I still have some really scary moments though and as much as this is so hard to say, because I love my son of course, I mourn my life with just my daughter and husband. I feel like I just slog through the day waiting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I keep just trying to say to myself. THIS IS TEMPORARY. But I feel so adrift.
Posted by: Megan | February 04, 2008 at 11:03 AM
THANK YOU for this post!!
While I knew that something was terribly wrong as early as three days postpartum, it took me until about three weeks postpartum to get help. Ten months, two medications (Lexapro didn't work well, Zoloft is awesome), therapy, and a return to work later, I'm starting to feel like myself again.
I really think that one of the reasons that little Liz has been behind on all her social milestones (first smile at 10 weeks, first laugh at 14 weeks, just now babbling at 10 months) is that I couldn't muster up a smile or a laugh of my own in those first few months.
Those feelings of dread and emptiness and worthlessness were the worst thing I've ever had to go through. I didn't tell anyone I wanted to kill myself because I knew they'd put me on a mental health hold and watch me very closely; I wanted to know that suicide would be an option if I 'needed' it.
Liz will be an only child.
Posted by: Jen | February 25, 2008 at 06:40 AM
Jen - I'm so sorry that's you've had such a hard time. I hope the treatment (med, therapy, etc.) is helping. Good for you to recognized the issue and try the different meds until you found one that worked. I am so glad you sought help, and I hope that you are talking with your therapist about the thoughts of suicide. It really does get better, and I hope you can focus on that and the wonderful aspects of parenthood as you get through this more. Good luck!
Posted by: caramama | March 07, 2008 at 10:50 PM
Moxie: can you please tag (metatag?) this page in a way that will make it easy to find via Google? I've been Googling "postpartum depression" for weeks but have only come across this page through a friend. I wish I'd found it weeks ago.
Posted by: FirstTimeMom | March 06, 2009 at 10:51 PM
I am the mother of a six week old baby boy. I know I love him but don't feel those euphoric feelings that mothers are suppose to feel. I have lots of help and sometimes I feel like maybe too much help that I am not Fufilling my motherly duties. I just keep wondering when I am going to fall "in love" with him. I feel like I am a monster for feeling this way. Anyone else have any insight or knowledge they can share with me.
Posted by: Ames | January 18, 2011 at 01:41 PM