Last night I met a mom of a 7-week-old. We were talking about how things were going for her, and she said that she was wondering when she was going to start enjoying it, and that she woke up every morning with a sense of dread and a feeling of "How am I going to make it through today?" We were talking about her baby, and she seemed not to know what to say about him.
We talked some more, and it became pretty apparent that she either had mild PPD or was on the border of it. We talked about some things she could do that start feeling better immediately (exercise that works your core--so T-Tapp, pilates, or yoga, Omega 3s at 3,000mg a day, and B complex vitamins) and asked her to talk to her doctor in a few days whether or not she was feeling better, just to get a professional helping her.
As we were leaving, she told me she was glad she'd talked to me, because she'd thought she was just being a cry-baby about it.
That's the thing about PPD. When you're sinking into it, you don't say "Aha! I have this illness called PPD. Let me get some help." You just think things suck and you don't feel very good. And, yeah, most people aren't really loving the gig at 7 weeks, so you feel like maybe it's all normal. But why is it so hard for you? And if you tell your partner and s/he doesn't know what to do so s/he just tells you "it'll get better" then you think maybe it really is just weakness or being a whiner.
It's not. In the first two weeks post-partum, your hormones will be whacked out and you'll laugh and cry for no reason. Past that point, though, if you feel dread all the time, and don't feel joy several times during each day, you're sinking into PPD.
YOU ARE NOT WEAK. Your hormones are out of whack, and you have a treatable illness. You can probably get some relief by making some small changes, you may need meds but you won't have to stop nursing unless you want to, and there is nothing wrong with you as a person. You are suffering from a physical illness.
Over on the left is a PDF you can download with some suggestions of things you can do to help lift the greyness (to me depression always felt like being rolled in that pink fiberglass insulation--I was still there on the inside but I just couldn't seem to interface with the rest of the world) and give yourself a little bit of breathing room. Download it, show it to your partner, and tell him or her that you need help. Start with one or two of the things on the list, and get your partner to call your provider. They will help you.
Comments? Support? Requests for support?
One thing I would like to add is that for women who have had a traumatic birthing experience either during or post labor, they may also be experiencing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) in addition to or even instead of PPD.
I thought I had PPD but then after I got through telling my horrendous birth story to a new therapist she got out her checklist of PTSD symptoms for me to look at and it was like a lightbulb going on for me. Depression and anxiety are symptoms of PTSD as well as PPD but the cognitive-behavioral therapy is different. I had only minimal relief from the stuff I was doing with the old therapist who was working under the premise of PPD. Once I started a PTSD support group/individual therapy I did so much better.
When i am helping a new mom who is dealing with PPD i also ask her for her birth story and if it seems like it was traumatic for her then i will suggest she get screened by a professional for PTSD.
Posted by: Janis | January 25, 2008 at 07:35 PM
Wow. My baby is now 4 1/2 months old, and all I can think about was how for the first three months, I would lay in bed dreading every time I'd have to get up to nurse, or every time he'd cry. I actually started to use a night light, because I felt so lonely that I got scared of the dark, even with my husband sleeping there right next to me! Of course, I knew the symptoms of PPD, but I just never connected the feelings of dread and anxiety to depression, even though I know from experience that they go hand in hand. So seeing it written here just made it all click -- thank you so much, because even though I think I'm on the way back up, I still think it's probably worth it for me to talk to someone... for no other reason than to just be able to talk about all the stuff going on besides the new mom stuff (work, etc.). Thanks again so much! This blog is the best!
Posted by: Fran | January 25, 2008 at 08:41 PM
So reading all of this is making me question where I am at. I knew that I had been down... and have been taking supplements more regularly again along with the omega 3s (over the holidays it was hectic).
But this week has been a killer. I have been having increasing melt downs. and over all feel worse more depleted empty than I did in the colicky baby stage. Actually I feel like my reactions to my son and husband and such are out of proportion to reality but I can't hep it. We have major sleep issues... but I don't always feel tired like I did in the beginning (aka I don't slur my words). I let my son cry in his bed, in his bouncer for a long time today cause I was just phased out. When all he wanted was for me to hold him but I just couldn't/didn't want to. This is a change.
Last night I could understand how someone could run away from their baby.
But I feel like I have been asking for help and no one is listening. And sending them a link to this post seems like being melodramatic. But I fear evenings, I dread mornings alone... and already I am worrying about monday, yet I have a hard time connecting with my DH when he is here.
Thanks for having this discussion.
Posted by: sheSaid | January 25, 2008 at 09:03 PM
wealhtheow, you need more help at home. If family can't help you, you need to maybe trade off childcare with another Mom, join a gym with free childcare, pay a teenager, or something.
That's the advice my OB gave me and it did work.
Posted by: Mommyprof | January 25, 2008 at 09:05 PM
Along with the previous comment about PTSD I want to add that if you've had previous pregnancies but no previous births -- esp. if that situation was something you chose (I guess I should just say if you are post-abortive)-- then it can be a factor in how you react to having a baby even if you are perfectly okay with that choice. This was the situation for me and you should find a counselor who can help you process your feelings non-judgementally while still recognizing that it is a real problem (which it is). I found the most caring compassionate help at a crisis pregnancy center where they did post-abortion counseling. Even having a past miscarriage can bring depression or conflicted feelings when you do have a baby. This is not meant to be in any way a judging comment, but just something else that no one talks about and that could help someone.
Posted by: elizabeth | January 25, 2008 at 09:36 PM
About the intrusive thoughts with OCD, can they be images? I sometimes have these weird/gruesome images pop up in my head and then I can't get them out.
I am really glad to see this posted today. I have been on a downward spiral for the past week or two. I have hit a wall, slammed a door repeatedly, and I actually hit myself the other day. OK, I did that twice. Last week I had some pretty bad thoughts in the middle of the night. I think it is coming from the lack of sleep (little bit slept great until 4months, he is 7 months now) and the fact that my husband is probably suffering from depression, which means he is not much help.
I just don't know what to do to get my little one to take naps. I left him to cry in his crib today - he only ended up sleeping 30 minutes each time, after crying 35 min. the first time and 15 min. the second time. The really bad part is afterwards though, it seems like he doesn't look at me the same. Today he didn't seem to want to nurse after he woke up, and he just looks at me strangely, or won't look at me at all. Anyone I know in real life with a baby has done CIO and can't really give any other advice. And my family basically tells me to let him CIO and/or give him a bottle.
These struggles with naps are what send me to hitting things and hating myself. I have no margin. We can have a few good nights and I can get through the day okay, but if we have no naps and bad sleep just one night, I feel so bad.
I have all the supplements, but I never remember to take them. I will try harder tomorrow.
Posted by: s | January 25, 2008 at 09:41 PM
Oh S, I can absolutely relate. There was awhile where I had horrible images-not of intentionally hurting the baby, but of horrible accidents. I won't describe them in any detail, but they were very vivid and scary.
I told my husband, and he is a wonderfully supportive man and very involved father, but he didn't see how much trouble I was having. To him my symptoms did not seem like PPD so he was not concerned.
Next, I told two friends at lunch. They listened, told me their stories, and held my hand while I called my OB. Just letting people in and letting them help relieved my symptoms a bit and my Dr. helped even more.
I know it is hard to be good to yourself right now, but it is important. Also tell some friends what is going on, they will understand and help you get what you need to feel better.
You are doing a great job with you baby! Why doesn't anyone but Moxie tell us that sometimes they are easy when they are very new, then more difficult during developmental spurts?
Posted by: strugi | January 25, 2008 at 10:45 PM
I cried and said "I [expletive] hate this!!!" EVERY DAY for the first three months. Then we discovered her multiple food intolerances and I went on a brutal elimination diet. We got a happier baby as a result - but as the PPD started to diminish, the PTSD really kicked in. And the diet wreaked havoc once again on my mental health.
My husband also definitely had depression as well - don't overlook the possibility of PPD in the dads!!!!!!
Anyway, I actually DID have a couple ladies at church ask me rightout - "How are you handling the mental/emotional stress?" and although I told them it was hard, I never EVER admitted to anyone how effing hard it actually was until...oh....maybe when she was a year old and we were actually starting to see the light?
You just get stuck in this rut of knuckling down and trying to survive, and if you actually come up for air and admit just how hard a time you are having, you're afraid that all your fragile walls of resistance against this hell you are in will collapse and you really WILL give in to those dark temptations, like smothering the baby with a pillow, or throwing it against the wall, or simply driving away forever.
To this day, I still have flashbacks about my ("fast, easy, all-natural") labor. There was nothing particularly gruesome about it, but it just totally devastated my soul for some reason.
I really really wish that my midwife had done some kind of debriefing post birth. I think that hearing her perspective on my birth story, and then sharing mine, would have really helped so much. That's something I'm going to look for and ask for if there is a next time.
Posted by: Laura | January 25, 2008 at 11:14 PM
Having re-read my comment from earlier, it seems pretty clear to me I had just taken MY anti-depressant with a cup of coffee. A little on the effussive side, though I still mean every word of it. Thanks Moxie, for doing what you do for all of us.
:)Quite a commercial for anti-depressants though. They are fan-f*cking-tastic.
Posted by: Julie | January 25, 2008 at 11:42 PM
first of all !s! hang in there. I do remember being there and what i want to say is hang in there and share that for the napping thing what i did quite frequently during these no nap days was settle down on the couch with the baby and had him sleep in my arms or in the moby wrap. Many many days were spent like this because otherwise i would be fighting him to nap for 30-45 minutes and then he would sleep for 30 minutes and i would dissolve into tears at the thought of all the wasted effort. I don't know if i had ppd but i definitely felt terrible from the sleep deprivation.
Also, if you have the energy and your baby is one who will sleep in the car take the baby for a ride. I didn't do this as much and i should have done it. It would have gotten me out of the house and i would have had a rested baby somewhat. All i can send your way are happy thoughts and hugs.
Second, jumping on the "why do other moms do this?" train- we are now a week shy of the 3rd trimester with 2.0. Why do moms insist on telling me that the 2nd is much more difficult than the first and that i am in for a rough time. WHY? I ask you why do women do this to each other?
This has been an emotionally difficult pregnancy. This baby is yet another surprise and much sooner than we were ready and lately it has been putting a huge strain on my husband and my relationship but still we stumble through it all. AND IT DOES NOT HELP AT ALL that people keep telling me how hard it is. With the first pregnancy i had the strength to keep my mouth shut and not react too negatively b/c i was so excited but now i just dissolve into tears when someone tells me yet another story of what the older one will do to hurt the younger one. we know there are some rough times ahead and we know there will be sucky days but somehow other people make it through and so will we but the last thing i need is for people to constantly remind me how awful it will be initially.
And on that note- MOXIE thank you so much for this site. I discovered it when panda was around 3 months old and this was the first place that was non-judgmental and helpful outside of my friend J and i can't thank you and the commenters here enough for helping me keep my sanity.
Posted by: z | January 26, 2008 at 09:34 AM
reading so many comments, i just wish that more women in real life would have been/would be more honest with how things really are.
i usually go beyond the whole "how are you" "i'm fine (sometimes admitting being tired)" with my own abbreviated story of how rough i found the whole experience- and i would say 8-9 times out of ten i get met with this look of "what are you talking about" and that's where it ends. for a long time, i stopped doing that because then of course, i felt like an idiot that couldn't get a handle on this. like i was the odd one because i didn't have rainbows and unicorns shooting out of my ass all the time.
i just we could admit things face to face without being made to feel like such a failure. give each other a little more credit as to how friggin hard this all is and that you're doing a great job regardless of how you feel about it.
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 26, 2008 at 09:37 AM
@z- i had a full on panic attack last night over the birth/reality of our #2 coming this summer- one of the reasons i avoid telling people i'm pregnant is to avoid those comments! i know i won't be in the "is she or isn't she" stage forever, though...
just wanted to throw you some support- we are stressed out too, but i am holding on to the hope that all the #2's i know seem to be 'better/easier' babies being taken care of by parents who *really* know what to expect and have way better coping skills. keep coming back here and we can co-miserate together!
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 26, 2008 at 09:42 AM
S- We periodically go through very, very bad nap phases (Pumpkin is 9.5 months now) where I just can't get her down for a nap. On my smarter days during those phases, I give up after about 30 minutes of trying and revert to the tried and true tricks to make her nap. For us, that's motion- if it is a nice day, I take her for a walk (which has the bonus of cheering me up, even if I really don't think I want to walk, and am crying at the start of it) and if it is not a nice day, I put her in the car and drive around feeling guilty about global warming. But she sleeps.
On my not so smart days, I struggle and struggle and feel like a failure.
And then Pumpkin gets through the phase, and will go down for a nap again.
Go easy on yourself about the napping thing. Do whatever it takes to get the baby a nap if that is what is needed. You're doing a great job, even if you don't feel like you are. There was a comment on another one of the blogs I read about how it is when we are dealing with the difficult times that we are being the best mothers. Here is the post where the blog author highlights that comment, which I think is spot on:
http://writeabouthere.blogspot.com/2007/05/thank-you.html
Posted by: Cloud | January 26, 2008 at 12:21 PM
@S
Mine were fleeting images and thoughts, really fleeting, but they felt as though there was a whole film going on in my head. What followed was a incredible surge of anxiety. Sometimes, I was so sickened by them I wanted to vomit. It really did help talking to someone, even if it was only my husband. Recently I even told my mom about them. It gets easier with time and I can't stress how important cognitive therapy can be. I have milder ones all the time, but never have that awfull anxiety that I had with my first child, a sign that the illness is being managed well ( it never goes away -
that's the best you can ask for)
Regarding the naps/sleep issues 7 months is a bad time as there is the 42 week fussy period and then the 51 week fussy period. My little one went straight from one to the other with only a week or two of decent unfussiness between. Really do hang in there. Get someone to help you with bub for a while. It will get better soon, I promise
Posted by: marypoppins | January 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM
pnuts mama has it right - you have more skills. Your expectations will be rational. And you know how to learn, and trust that you can figure it out, and that they won't break while you scramble to do so. It certainly gave me more patience with myself, knowing I would eventually get there, even if I wasn't right there this second...
I always flash back to the couple I knew at work, who had both their first and their second child in tandem with us. With their first, life was easy. They tucked the baby into their lives, and carried on. You almost couldn't tell they even HAD a baby - they went out to eat, they still did all their social rounds, they were active and involved in their old lives, they didn't stress or struggle. They also were rather a bit superior about how easy they had it, like their baby was special, or they were extra-super parents. They were relatively arrogant about how if you just take the baby everywhere you always went, things will be just like before - no giving up anything in your life to have your life revolve around the baby. No change of identity, no loss of self, none of that 'my world is gone, boo-hoo!'... I stopped talking much to them because they were always raising eyebrows and looking at each other when I said we'd dropped this social activity or had to trim back that one, that we changed bedtime schedules or I stopped drinking wine because it made him fussy.
But the tables were sure turned with child two. With child two, their lives looked like mine. They had to adjust schedules, couldn't do all their social events, had to plan carefully for outings, had to lower their standards, had to ... change. Adjust. Adapt. OH, how AWFUL. The dad admitted (eyes hollow from no sleep) that they thought having a second had been a big mistake. It was hard. Awful. Add in sibling issues, and they were barely staying afloat. No more kids for them, they clearly weren't 'cut out' for more than one. Meanwhile, I had asked him how it was going because I was all set to share how much easier it was this time, how much of a joy, how I'd had the sibling issues, and some health challenges, but I just felt like I knew the game, knew how to learn, knew how to cope, and that made things so so so so much easier this time. I could have more and more!
And I suspect that we were just offset. They'd have had a similar experience, I think, with a third child, because they'd already been through the fire, hit the wall, crashed and burned. They'd have then learned the skills and scrambled and started catching up. A third would then have fit in with the new life much better. But they already were firmly decided - two was so hard, they'd never have three. People who hit that wall with one often want a second, so wince and go for it, and.. hey, the skills already exist. So it isn't so bad. Sometimes, yes, the effort is exponential. But other times, it is minimal. They play together. They help one-another. The issues may not be the same, but the process of figuring out how to respond to the issues is the same.
Hang in there, both of you. Granted, we panicked on number 2, as well. That's still totally normal.
Posted by: hedra | January 26, 2008 at 12:37 PM
@pnuts mama, you totally cracked me up with the rainbows and unicorns shooting out of the ass! I know exactly what you meant! The weird thing is, I DID have rainbows and unicorns shooting out of my ass sometimes, and as happy as that was, it felt exactly as bizarre and trippy as it sounds. And other times... no rainbows, no unicorns, just lots of thunder and clouds and rain. Basically a huge roller coaster. The reductive stories of all-good or even all-bad weren't very useful to me because my truth was that it was all over the place.
@ s and strugi and everyone else struggling with this difficult topic, kudos to you for talking about it so courageously!
@Moxie, thank you for birthing this (literally) lifesaver of a community.
One final note: While I don't want to in any way minimize how important it is to consider post-partum depression, for some people there could be another explanation for weird scary images besides post-partum depression. It turns out that many non-depressed new mothers have them too. I read a theory somewhere that these represent a healthy mind reminding us not to drop or forget the baby. It is such a huge transition from not being The One to being The One; just turning your head at the wrong time or loosening the grasp could mean disaster. It is a major adjustment for the brain to make, especially a sleep-deprived brain. So these images may be our way to practice and remind ourselves what the stakes are all the time. If you are imagining horrible accidents or mistakes, this could be what is going on.
I used to have a recurrent image when I was going down the stairs: what if I just let go and dropped him down all these flights of stairs? THen the whole scene would play out in my mind in excruciating detail while I watched helplessly (and held tight to the babe). It wasn't really an accident in my mind, but more of a mild compulsion. Like when you are on the roof of a tall building and wonder what would happen if you jumped. You don't actually want to do it, and you don't really think you would, but the image bizarrely pops into your head somehow. It freaked me out (as in "what does this say about me" not "what if I actually DO THIS") until I read the stuff about how my mind keeps reminding me "don't drop the baby". That made sense to me.
Of course, there are some Freudians out there who think this is repressed rage at the baby. Personally, I think that is a lot of hooey. There is a whole cultural script around mothers resenting their children that this plays into, in my opinion.
I think if the images are more about truly intentional harm to yourself or the babe, though, or if they don't feel really alien to the rest of your emotional experience, or if you aren't 100% comfortably certain you would never act on them, then that is worth taking very seriously and alerting your support network, getting help, etc. right away. You can always decide later that this isn't a problem if that turns out to be true.
I hope this helps, and lots of strength and well wishes to you all!
Posted by: Susannah | January 26, 2008 at 12:43 PM
@s. I also suffer with the half hour nap thing. She's 5 months and we've just come out of a fussy stage, but still the 30 min naps remain. Like you, sometimes they make me mad, but on other days I can cope by having very low expectations.
I expect that the day will be filled with half hour naps and plan accordingly.
Nap number 1 - in bed with me, nipple in mouth.
Nap number 2 - out in the Ergo
Nap number 3 - see Nap number 1
Nap number 4 - in pram, hopefully sent out with a willing helper to give me a break.
The gaps are filled with short bursts of activity and last anywhere between an hour or 2 before she is rubbing her eyes and yawning. This gives my day some structure and I'm pleasantly suprised if a nap lasts longer than 30 mins (esp. if I'm in bed with her). Sometimes, we only need 3 naps is we're having a good day!!
When I'm feeling upbeat about it all, I think 'oh well, by around 9 months or so they are supposed to be on only 2 naps a day, so I'll do by any means necessary for now!!'.
Good luck, I know it sucks, especially when you are so sleep deprived by a crappy night's sleep and you sooooo need a break.
Posted by: sam | January 26, 2008 at 02:05 PM
Just wanted to chime in to say that your blog, you, saved me. You are the reason I realized I wasn't going crazy, and that I wasn't alone... at 12 long months postpartum when I happened to stumble across a book review you'd written here on this blog that mentioned PPOCD. After all the PPD blogs and websites I'd lingered on, after all the books I'd browsed at the book store, I'd honestly never even heard of it. And I really needed that one tiny nudge to give me the courage to tell someone, and to feel like I deserved to get help. Now, I've been in therapy for four months and I'm doing better, slowly, slowly. Thank you.
Posted by: M | January 26, 2008 at 11:31 PM
A local mamas forum recently discussed this issue in light of a tragic story. A new mom with serious PPD, so bad she had psychosis, killed her 7 week old child and herself. She had told no one how she was feeling, but seemed upbeat to everyone. We have to be real with ourselves and each other.
Posted by: S. Marie | January 27, 2008 at 02:04 AM
Unfortunately, we have such a stigma with antidepressants. They have saved my life and my family! When you are in a really dark place they are a great tool for getting to you to a rational functioning state where you can then effectively work with behavioral therapy, diet , exercise etc.
Posted by: Anon | January 27, 2008 at 02:06 AM
I was a hormonal basketcase and so dang tired until about 13 months when we went from nursing all day and night to a schedule of 4-5 times a day and now at 15 months with 3 blocks of time:
1.
hours around pre-dawn to wake-up
2. afternoon nap time including nursing back to sleep as many times as it takes to get a 3 hour nap
3. at bedtime
There was a hormonal adjustment, but I feel so much saner and have so much more energy. And I hear from others that I seem more like my old self.
I am convinced that if I had instead weaned abruptly that I would have had an extreme hormonal imbalance that would have put me over the deep end.
I am feeling like slowly weaning from here on out is going to help with the hormonal adjustment post-nursing and also the weigh management.
Posted by: S. Marie | January 27, 2008 at 03:45 AM
@Susannah
The thing is that we all have some kind of intrusive thoughts at some time or another. Apparently around 85 percent of the 'normal' population has them so there is no doubt new mothers who are not suffering PPD or OCD have them occassionally. The difference between the 'normal' population and sufferers of OCD or PPD is the anxiety that goes hand in hand with the images/thoughts. Anxiety may range from simple increased heartbeat to panic to the feeling you'e heart is going to explode. Also it depends on the number of these 'spikes' you have in a given moment. I was having scores a day. Then the rumination sets in and you start to think, was that a 'real thought', did I really want to 'throw my kid down the stairs?'
Also I think these days there are few professionals who seriously see a connection between the 'themes' these thoughts take on and the persons 'character'. No one really beleives that they are signs of repressed anything:that you secretly want to have sex with, harm or injure your child.
Posted by: marypoppins | January 27, 2008 at 04:06 AM
@marypoppins
interesting about the 85% of "normals". Thank you. I did used to feel very anxious when I had the intrusive thoughts, but more because I didn't really understand why I was having them. Then I read Naomi Stadlen's wonderful book "What mothers do (especially when it looks like nothing)", and she talks a bit about this. And this blog has talked about aspects of this off and on, which has helped me to feel really reassured there was nothing wrong with me. That lessened the anxiety a lot for me. Although I still don't especially LIKE having thoughts like that, they don't happen more than once or twice a day, and I don't usually ruminate, as you said. In essence, I guess I am not really suffering from them.
In contrast, when I had PPD/PP anxiety, for me it manifested as feeling disconnected and distant from everything. I could listen to B cry without feeling any distress or the sense that it had anything to do with me. It was like I was insulated in layers of cotton batting, a lot like someone else said earlier. I didn't actually feel anxious or sad, just kind of numb. I knew enough to notice pretty quickly (within days), and I found help that made a difference, although probably not as quickly or completely as I would have liked looking back. It makes me very sad to remember.
I guess the mood stuff affects each of us in our own particular way. How wonderful to have this special community to talk about it!
Posted by: susannah | January 27, 2008 at 09:47 AM
I, like most of the commenters, didn't read all of the comments. The post itself hit me. HARD. I honestly wondered if Moxie, someone I'd never met, was writing about me.
My baby is seven weeks old. He is beautiful, perky, and wonderful. And I adore him. But my God, I hate this job. Hate it. And I went back to work last week and felt normal for the first time in seven weeks.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for vocalizing this. I think we all want to be SuperMoms and feeling anything even slightly not "Motherhood is such a fabulous thing!" makes us feel weak and failing. Thanks for making me (us!) feel normal and realizing that help is not a failure.
Posted by: Sarah | January 27, 2008 at 01:37 PM
As a former infertility sufferer, I was informed of an interesting article that says that women who'd previously suffered from infertility are more likely to suffer from PPD. They feel like they are so "lucky" to just have a baby, that they shouldn't complain and feel that they need to cope better. The areticle can be found at http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/page/essential_family_ivf_july07.html
I hope that for anyone who hasn't yet given birth, they seek the help they may need.
Posted by: Beth | January 27, 2008 at 06:49 PM
As a former infertility sufferer, I was informed of an interesting article that says that women who'd previously suffered from infertility are more likely to suffer from PPD. They feel like they are so "lucky" to just have a baby, that they shouldn't complain and feel that they need to cope better. The article can be found at http://www.essentialbaby.com.au/page/essential_family_ivf_july07.html
I hope that for anyone who hasn't yet given birth, they seek the help they may need.
Posted by: Beth | January 27, 2008 at 06:51 PM
Thanks so much for this post, Moxie, for this site, and for the wonderful community that has come into fruition as a result.
You would think that being such as "Ask Moxie" devotee, it wouldn't have taken me so long to get the help I needed with PPD. I tried -- really, I did. Was totally aware of the seriousness of the issue, read Brooke Shields' book while pregnant, told both my PCP and OB within 6 weeks after delivery that I felt like I was suffering from more than the normal new mom adjustment issues.
That feeling of constant dread and utter joylessness -- that was me. And try as I did to express that to the people closest to me, I guess it just took me a while -- until I reached the point of desperation, actually -- when I felt like I had no other choice but to be completely honest with myself and with everyone around me. [One of the most difficult conversations I've ever had with my husband: telling him that "I don't want to hate my daughter, and I'm afraid that could be where we're headed if things don't change."] Luckily, I have a fabulous PCP, who -- as I sat in her office and said, "I am terrified of being alone with my baby [about 11 weeks old at that point] because I just don't feel like I can take care of her" -- immediately sprang into action to get me the help I needed. Phone calls to my mom and husband saying that, as I was under her care, she was insisting that we get constant 24/7 help for me and the baby (now a combination of family [all of whom have been *super* supportive], friends, and hired help) as well as putting me under the treatment of a psychiatrist who could do the work necessary to find the right combination of meds for me. And God bless our pediatrician, too, who pointed me toward a wonderful therapist who specializes in issues of pregnancy, postpartum, and parenting in general. All of that combined with a great PPD support group at a local hospital has proved immensely helpful to me.
So where do things stand now? Well, I've been diagnosed with severe postpartum- depression *and* -anxiety (just as big an issue), but I'm on the road to recovery. Just in the last week, I have started to feel like myself again. And I'm enjoying my baby girl!!! She's just amazing, and I actually look forward to our special times together, which are increasing by the day. Oh my gosh, finally -- FINALLY -- to feel the love that I had been wishing for all these weeks. That is without a doubt the very best thing of all.
PPD is a seriously scary thing. There were moments where I thought I had lost myself forever. My mom would cry with me and say "I just want my daughter back, and I know your husband just wants his wife back," all while I was *most* concerned about my daughter having a mother who would love her and take care of her as she deserves. I just wanted the awful feelings to end... and fortunately, now that I'm getting help, they're beginning to. I now have hope -- it's a beautiful thing.
So, Moxie, I'm really glad (and thankful) that you reached out to that new mom. I'm really glad and thankful for the help and support you and the rest of the readers/posters on this site have offered me at various times, in so very many ways. (Yes, I'm doing the omega 3s, B complex, exercise, and outside time!) I may not always comment, but I always read -- and enjoy! -- the conversations here.
Oy -- long post. Forgive me, but this really resonated with me (clearly). To anyone else who is dealing with PPD and related issues: God, does this suck. But we can make it better with the right kind of help. Figure out what you need and make it happen -- you (and your baby) are worth it.
Posted by: Suzie Q | January 27, 2008 at 10:00 PM
I can't believe I missed this conversation!
It's thanks to Moxie and all you supportive commenters that I finally started taking fish oil and seeing a therapist for my PPD (this was back in November). Both of these things have really helped me, as has this site and my husband. Things are going much better for us.
It's so important to seek the help we need. I hope that everyone out there who is unsure or wondering at leasts starts talking to people and taking the fish oil. And don't be afraid of medication! It is like taking insulin if you are diabetic.
Anyway, I'm obviously super late with this post, but thank you all very much.
Posted by: caramama | January 28, 2008 at 01:01 PM
Just another thank you, both for the site and this thread in particular. C is 8 months old, and I'm only just realizing that something is off. I've had lots of moments of joy, but quite a few days of depression-like feelings. Not sure what's going on, but I went to my doctor and they were addressed quickly and thoroughly. (She took me off the mini-pill, started me on the Omega-3s and recommended several therapists. Already I feel better.
Thanks!
Posted by: Di | January 28, 2008 at 01:46 PM
I can see no end to this. I'm exhausted. The baby won't take a bottle, so I do all night wakings. She can't put herself to sleep, will only sleep with my boob in her mouth and wakes when i try to leave her. Naps are short, there's no respite. Partner works long hours. i feel so lonely. i can't do this. i wanted to be a good mother. i'm not. that little baby relies on me and i don't have the energy to meet her needs. she's crying. i want someone else to have her before i damage her forever by leaving her to sob. i wanted to succeed at this so badly. i can't function on this little sleep. i don't think i have ppd, i think i'm just sleep deprived and it's clouding my judgement and my instincts. i just want to share the load.
Posted by: tired | January 28, 2008 at 02:58 PM
I also can't believe how late I am coming into this conversation.
Tired, what you've written strikes me as the most truly felt, stark emotion. You are a good mother. You are meeting her needs. Just think how strong you must be to be able to articulate your sadness, your bad feelings! My God, so many people have no emotional vocabulary at all, but you're able to say it and what you're feeling is horrible but at least you are able to articulate it, rather than saying "Everything's great!" This will be a tremendous gift for your daughter, as she will also learn how to accurately and honestly say what she's feeling and going through.
Everone else has commented so helpfully, Tired, that I just can't improve on the previous posts. I will say that *you will get through this* and, again, that you are the best possible Mom for your daughter, you are irreplaceable. If you have any support available to you where you are, now is the time to call in the troops. If not (and even if so), stay hooked in to this community. I'm rooting for you.
Posted by: rudyinparis | January 28, 2008 at 03:20 PM
Tired: I hope some others come and leave some encouraging comments. In the meantime, remember this:
-you are the best mother in the world for your baby.
-this won't last forever. Your baby WILL eventually sleep.
-I'm not a fan of CIO but you won't "damage her forever by leaving her to sob" for a little while so you can catch your breath, have a cup of tea, phone your best friend.
-seek help from a friend/neighbour/relative...anyone who can be with your baby for a few hours and let you sleep.
-no one can function on no sleep - you are human, not weak.
You are a good mother. Just get through the next hour. You WILL succeed at this, you ARE succeeding.
Be kind to yourself. It will eventually be okay. Your little daughter loves you.
Posted by: Isabella | January 28, 2008 at 03:25 PM
Hi Tired, I wanted to come back in and mention what Hedra said, earlier in the string, about how humans skew toward normal and how attachment issues aren't all set in stone right away (although it sure seems like many people would love for us to think so.) Because I wanted to say that I just don't believe that you are damaging your daughter. I think you're right--you're severely sleep-deprived and that is most likely effecting your judgement. I am not sleep-deprived and I simply don't believe that you are causing any long-term damage to your child. I read an article a ways back and I remember one Mom talking about how her husband was in Iraq and she felt overwhelmed and there were times she would let her baby cry in the crib *for hours* so she could get the rest she needed. Her story stuck with me, and I think she was really brave to a.)admit that she had done that and b.)do what she needed to take care of herself. Hang in there.
Posted by: rudyinparis | January 28, 2008 at 03:32 PM
tired - I have been where you are (although, I will admit to having a lot of support from hubby and family). But I've felt that exhaustion and worn out feeling from constantly nursing and trying to never let the baby cry. It is such a tough time! You didn't say how old your baby is, but trust me (and so many other people on this site), it WILL end. There is an end to it.
And you can leave the baby to take a break. It will not damage your baby to have to cry a little bit while mommy regains her sanity. It is even better for the baby than you trying to do it all constantly without any breaks for yourself.
Is there anyone besides your husband who can help you? I just went up to visit a friend who is feeling similar, and I went without my baby so that I could just provide support for her and give her some breaks. Do you have family or a friend who could come help you out?
GL! And keep us posted. It really, truly does get better!
Posted by: caramama | January 28, 2008 at 03:40 PM
I wish there was a way for us to register for a Moxie Brigade....a group of people organized geographically to reach out to moms like Tired in real life so we can help her with more than just "hang in there, we're with you". But for now, Tired, I'm with you. I wish I could come over and hold your little one for a couple hours while you got some sleep. It is a hard job, and the beginning is filled with so much self-doubt and exhaustion. Saying it will get better won't help you in the here-and-now. It's okay to let baby cry for a bit so you can take care of your own needs. Put baby in the crib, put on the bathroom fan and turn on the shower and do something for yourself. She'll be just fine.
Posted by: Julie | January 28, 2008 at 03:45 PM
tired, you sound tired AND like you have PPD. rudyinparis is right, time to call in the troops. State/gov't help line, hospital you gave birth at for ppd support, your OB/mw, your pastor/minister/rabbi, your family doc, your partner's workplace emergency support program, pediatrician... the list is long, for help. Just print (or hand write) what you wrote, add. 'I may have PPD' to the end, and give it to one of them.
Honestly, I've had PPD and not had it (but been wiped out tired), and the only times I felt like I was actually failing (or had failed) was with PPD.
Babies are resilient. ESPECIALLY while breastfed. So what seems like 'failure' isn't permanent damage in the least. You need help, support, supplements, mayhap also meds, *and* sleep, but even for the time when you didn't yet get that support, you are the best mom for your child. That's anything but failure.
Posted by: hedra | January 28, 2008 at 03:48 PM
tired- you don't mention how old your baby is, but I remember feeling sooo overwhelmed in the first few months, and I had a lot of support. Go easy on yourself, you are doing a great job. Don't feel guilty about the crying. I have an aunt who had her first baby while her husband was in Vietnam. She told me that at one point she put him in his carrier so that he'd be safe and then let him cry so that she could get some sleep. As far as I can tell, her son is now a happy, productive member of society suffering no ill effects. Seriously, babies are resilient.
Will your baby sleep during walks or drives? If you can find any help at all, send that person out for a walk with the baby with instructions not to come back for two hours. Then go take a nap. This saved my sanity in the early days.
Big hugs. You're doing a great job, really you are.
Posted by: Cloud | January 28, 2008 at 03:59 PM
oh tired, i have so been there- i could have written what you wrote *exactly* when pnut was about 3, 4, 5, 6 months old- i swore i thought i was going to go insane and i was so *very, very* tired...that child would never take a bottle at that point (not at night anyway, and then only from ME! hello!!)and jesus god if i didn't feel as though i was a failure as a mother in every way- mostly because i was getting so angry at this damn baby who was literally sucking me dry. ugh. it is making me cry right now just remembering that awful unending feeling of hopelessness and helplessness. i couldn't ever see an end to it either- i had no perspective of everything being just a phase.
oh my god, if i could come over to you right now i would and drive your screaming baby around for a few hours while you got a nap and shower and a decent meal. i would show you my articulate and happy toddler who is showing no signs of damage or recollection of her whacked out sleep deprived mama screaming "just STFU and go to SLEEP already!" multiple times on multiple occasions. i promise you your baby feels nothing but love and comfort from you and YOU are doing a FANTASTIC job being her mama.
it is definitely time to call in the troops on this one- for YOU first, then for your baby. maybe you're right and you don't have PPD, and you just need some sleep. either way, find a way to get it. until then, if you have an exhaust fan in the bathroom, put baby in the bouncer/carseat and see if she'll sleep in the bathroom for an hour while you take a shower. if you have a swing, stick her in it in front of the TV and let her zone out for a while while you eat something healthy. if she'll only sleep on you, then get yourself safe in the couch, and snuggle in for a nap with her. or put her in the crib and let her scream. there are 4,000,000 worse things that can happen besides your baby being somewhere safe screaming her head off while you get a break. it will feel like an eternity for you, but it won't be.
you can do this, you ARE doing this, she is not only living but flourishing because of you. i promise you we'll be here if you need us.
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 28, 2008 at 05:24 PM
tired- one other thing:
i want you to give yourself permission to give the baby formula if you need to. one thing i wish i had done looking back now is that. i wish now that bf'ing wasn't the hill i was willing to die for- back then to me, formula=failure, and only the clarity of hindsight shows me now how wrong i was on that point. that would have bought me one nighttime feeding (or a daytime feeding with a different caregiver) and really, at that point, that's what i needed, more than the pnut needed to be EBF'ed.
even if your baby seems resistant to a bottle, she'll take one eventually if hungry enough- plenty of moms have had to wean abruptly and their babies have adapted to a bottle and survived. even if you pump and do a 1/2 and 1/2 bottle- if that's what it takes to get some rest, do it. it will free you from some of the physical/mental feeling of being shackled to a baby who needs *only you* and allow you to share the burden of her needs with at least one other person.
i know some folks won't be supportive of that idea (i used to be one of them!) but seriously, you are not a failure for finding ways to sleep at any means necessary. hang in there and come back whenever you need to.
Posted by: pnuts mama | January 28, 2008 at 05:57 PM
I've been thinking about this post since Friday. I've typed in a few different comments and then deleted them. They sounded a lot like Tired's comment. Can anyone explain what the difference is between sleep deprivation and PPD? If I am perfectly honest with myself, this doesn't feel like depression (of which I know) but it doesn't feel right, either. What do people do if NOTHING helps the baby sleep consistently? I mean, a car ride, sleeping on me, nursing - could work, could not work. The guessing game is making me crazy. What will put her to sleep this time? And how long dare I hope for? I feel connected, and excited about the future. But I also feel hopeless that I will ever be able to relax ever again. About sleep, about whether I deserve the things I want, about whether I am a good enough mom in the way I promised myself I'd be when we decided to have a baby.
Posted by: Anon | January 28, 2008 at 07:07 PM
Anon, I have nothing to help with distinguishing PPD and run of the mill sleep deprivation. I can talk a bit about sleep issues, though. Pumpkin's naps were hugely inconsistent until she was about 5 months old, and not really consistent until she was about 7 months old. Motion usually works to put her to sleep, but just this weekend, Hubby and I watched in horror/fascination as she stayed awake through nap time in a moving car. Sometimes I handle this well, sometimes not. What has helped a lot, particularly early on, was making it someone else's problem for a little bit of time. This worked best for me if that someone else took Pumpkin out of the house, leaving me to believe whatever I wanted to believe about whether she was sleeping or not. Hubby would take her for a walk on weekends. Any other person who was in town and offering to help would take her for a walk. Mostly she slept, but as I said, I wouldn't have known if she didn't.
I guess my point is: find a way to carve out some space for yourself and do whatever it is you are missing most. For me, it was usually sleeping, but sometimes also just lying in bed reading/resting or talking on the phone to a friend. And know that it is perfectly normal for babies to be crappy sleepers. Lots of us have babies who don't sleep well. Don't add guilt about not being able to ge tyour baby to sleep on top of the pain of sleep deprivation.
Posted by: Cloud | January 28, 2008 at 07:27 PM
Moxie, I'm just glad you keep posting about PPD. I suffered from it. I'm medicated for life as I am bipolar. I thought FOR SURE I would know right away if I started down that path. I am IN TUNE with my mental health. I have to be. But I missed it. I let it get pretty bad before I finally realized how much I had slipped. PPD is serious, it is dangerous and it is TREATABLE! Thank you for reminding so many of us of that.
p.s. I'm pregnant again. And I'll be on the lookout for PPD. Hopefully I'll catch it earlier this time.
Posted by: Meegan | January 28, 2008 at 08:49 PM
Tired and anon - I feel for you guys so much! That is a really hard time.
This is how I approached it on the crisis end - my mother had to go into the hospital for 3 weeks after I was born. I was abruptly weaned and tossed around to different relatives. Of all the problems I have had in life, that was NOT one of them!! :) I attach and bond fine. It is okay to walk away from a crying baby for 15 minutes, truly. No offense to any AP parents on the board - I lean that way - but I think sometimes our ideals about NEVER doing x for ANY amount of time (i.e. that if your baby cries in the car or a crib for 10 minutes) is the same as deliberately ignoring them for hours, is a little silly.
Sleep - I agree about calling in the troops and never underestimate the power of nursing the baby up full at their usual "longest time between nurses" time, bundling them up, handing them to dad or whoever for a long drive, and going to bed. ALONE. Seriously. Drop whatever else you are juggling and declare a sleep emergency week. For my son this was after the first nurse of the day so I would nurse him and go back to sleep while my husband got up with him.
Get your partner to call in sick for a day or two, if at all possible. This IS like being sick, being that sleep deprived. It is OKAY to take that seriously and take a day or two to catch up.
Put a mattress on the floor near a tv or cd player and give yourself permission to bond with your awake, happy baby... while you yourself are lying down and resting. They don't know the difference. If they're really mobile, babyproof the room in case you doze off for ten minutes.
For us the Ergo was a lifesaver just because my son learned to go to sleep in it while walking around... which meant my husband could walk him around. Ahh.
I think that's all the practical advice I can give you. It will end.
Posted by: Shandra | January 28, 2008 at 09:31 PM
PS, I'd be into a Moxie brigade. I'm in Toronto. :)
And Meegan congrats!
Posted by: Shandra | January 28, 2008 at 09:34 PM
Tired and Anon, you have my sympathy and empathy-you are in a hard place. It does get better, I promise, it gets better, but I know that is small comfort right now.
This sounds inane, but the people who offer you help, really want to help. They love you and they love your baby. Somehow I lost sight of that when I was in a similar position, I wanted to save people from the trouble, know I see how much people wanted to help and spend time with the baby.
Posted by: strugi | January 28, 2008 at 10:17 PM
My goodness! This is totally me. I have even had the thought of suicide cross my mind the past few weeks.
I keep thinking I am a crybaby...
But, is it still PPD when my twins are turning 2 in two weeks?!
Posted by: Emma | January 28, 2008 at 10:31 PM
Moxie, this post reminded me of all the reasons I read you faithfully and tell all my real life new mom friends that they should read you.
Not only was it a warm, supportive, helpful topic, but your seamless inclusion of same sex partners is perfect. P.E.R.F.E.C.T.
Thank you!
Posted by: Liza | January 29, 2008 at 08:53 AM
@Emma, have a look at Hedra's comments as she has twins herself. In this thread she says...
'Definitely note that it (PPD) can resurge at the year points for multiples, and it doesn't only start when they're born - it can start later, even up to a year later it counts as PPD. And with multiples, it is still considered PPD for as many years as you have multiples - quads for four years, triplets for three, twins for two full years.'
So it can be PPD for you. You are NOT being a cry baby. I can't imagine what it must be like to have TWO nearly 2s.
Print out Moxie's advice on PPD, call in some help and go and see someone. You don't have to feel like this. Come back here for support.
Good luck and lots of hugs to you.
Posted by: sam | January 29, 2008 at 08:54 AM
Anon - The thing about sleep and depression is that they are intrinsically linked. Sleep deprivation often leads to depression. So it's a difficult question to answer, what is the difference between sleep deprivation and depression. And I'm not sure the distinction is important--what I think is important is that when a person is severly sleep deprived or depressed they should get the help they need, be it a break so they can sleep or medication to help them feel better.
SheSaid - I don't know if anyone responded to your post. I left you a comment on your blog. You need to talk to someone, especially your husband. Tell him how you are feeling and that you might need help. Don't be afraid to ask (even demand) the help you need. Your husband and those around you who want to help are not going to know you need it unless you ask. (This is something I am working on and don't find easy.) Feel free to email me if you need to talk.
Posted by: caramama | January 29, 2008 at 10:13 AM
@Emma, I had the same question about PPD when my singleton was turning one. And the answer - from my OB and my therapist - was an emphatic YES. I am (obviously) not a doctor, but it seems to me that the symptoms, and not the timeframe or the label, are what matters.
I really, really encourage you to seek some help - from your partner, your pediatrician, your OB, a good friend, whomever. There is absolutely no shame in it. What's more, I think there is a great deal of courage and strength in being brave enough to admit you need some help.
Posted by: michaela | January 29, 2008 at 10:23 AM