Q&A: sarcasm or something

Natalie writes:

"Our kids are preschool age, and my husband uses what I think would be sarcasm with them all the time....maybe it is just plain teasing.  You decide. 

He does things like this: He will be playing "chase" with them (which I appreciate), but then when they run into their rooms to hide, he will knock on the door, and yell, "Grandma is here!" When they open the door, all excited, he will grab them and say, "I gotcha!" Repeat this about ten times with ten different exciting promises (ice cream, grandpa, candy, etc).  The kids get really excited, and then realize he is teasing.  He also does this the opposite way, by saying, at around 4 pm, "Well, it is time for bed", and one of my kids will be to the point of tears, and then he'll say, "Just kidding!"  Repeat five times.  When I tell him to stop, he says, "Think how happy they are when they see that I am kidding!  Hee, hee!"  He really is doing it to have fun. 

I want you and your commenters to tell me what you think:  Is this just plain kidding and I am just too sensitive?  Or is it more than that?  What do you think?"

I think it's mean. But I think it's entirely possible that he doesn't have any idea that it's mean, because someone pulled that same crap on him when he was a kid and told him it was normal and he was being "too sensitive" if he didn't like it. Alternately, it's possible that he's got some unconscious resentment toward the kids at this stage because he was treated meanly when he was that age, and so it's coming out in this too-harsh treatment of them.

Don't get me wrong--I love sarcasm and funny teasing that lets the kid in on the joke. (An example of that is answering a kid's question with something so exaggerated that the kid knows you're teasing and thinks it's funny. "Mom, where are we going after school?" "First we're going to buy some space suits, and then we're going to drive to the moon!" Assuming the child is old enough to know that you can't drive to the moon in a regular car.) But the teasing your husband's doing isn't letting the kids in on the joke. It's just setting them up for disappointment and teaching them that they can't trust what he says.

I have no idea how to resolve this situation. You could try giving him a taste of his own medicine, but telling him you were making his favorite meal for supper, or that you'd gotten a raise at work, or that you were dying to have a quickie right then, and then saying "I gotcha!" Or sit him down to tell him you'd gotten a letter from the IRS and you owed $50,000 in back taxes and penalties, and then say "Aren't you happy to see that I'm kidding? Hee, hee!"

But something I can't put my finger on really does make me think that he's striking out at the kids like this because of some hurt that was done to him when he was this age that he may not even realize happened. I don't know if giving him a taste of his own medicine is going to help much if he's still carrying that hurt around in him. Maybe you could start a conversation about things that adults did when you were little that you hated. (I can start: There was one distant relative we'd see a few times a year who would always offer to pour a drink for me and say "Say when," and then when I'd politely say, "Thank you" he'd keep pouring until the drink overflowed and then say, "You didn't say 'when" and give a big laugh. Jerk.) It may come out without his realizing it was there.

Anyone else? Do you agree with me that this is more harmful than funny? And what can Natalie do to stop it before it seriously harms her husband's relationship with their kids?

 

Comments

[paola]

Similar to Natalie's problem, my MIL uses 'threats' constantly with my 3 year old. Give me a kiss or I won't love you anymore, give me a hug or Santa won't bring you any presents.She will often imitate his way of talking. I think it's just terrible and it even makes me sad, and I pull her up on it every single time, but she just continues thinking it's funny, just like Natalie's husband. She'll say, Noah knows I'm joking, but really how can a 3 year old know someone is only joking. I wish I had some advice for Natalie, I'd love it too, especially when I have tried everything myself.

[Grant Barrett]

Yeah, it's mean. I could see it maybe if the kids were, 7, 8, 9, 10 or older, but that age? That's just mean bordering on stupidopathic.

I think this story in Science applies here. It says that "kids detect sarcasm at about age 6, but don’t begin to see the intended humour until around age 10."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070803141811.htm

[Too Sensitive]

My dad did this kind of thing when I was growing up and I hated it - instead of changing when he realized it upset me, I was "being a baby girl". It felt very blame-the-victim. As I became (much) older - an adult no longer living at home, with kids of my own - I realized that a lot of the "joking" and "teasing" really were meant in the spirit of fun (my mom would try to tell me he teased me to show he loved me and that was very hard for me to believe in the moment but has become more plausible - though still totally dysfunctional - now). My relationship with my dad really suffered from all of this while I was a kid - it got to the point where our interactions just didn't work - I didn't want to be around him and/or cried "too much", so he didn't want to be around me, which hurt my feelings and made me not want to be around him, which hurt his feelings, cycle & recycle. All of this is to basically say that sometimes teasing, while not meant meanly, can still have a destructive effect on a parent-child relationship and to encourage Natalie to encourage her husband to find ways of relating to the children that are fun for everyone. Also, my brother less than 2years younger thought my dad was mostly hilarious, so a lot of the teasing did work for their relationship; though my brother became a terrible bully to our younger sibs doing the kind of thing my dad did, but not with the same spirit. That was hard for my mom to discipline, let me tell you. And of course my dad thought it was mostly funny, and changing my brother's behavior would have meant changing his own... so he did nothing. Fun times!

[Jill]

When my son was about six, I was teasing him about something when he said "You know I don't understand that kind of humor." It stopped me in my tracks.

I never got to the point of Natalie's husband, but I am more careful with my sensitive son. I'm wondering if Natalie's kids can learn to say something to their dad to let him know they don't think he is funny?

[isabel]

Mean. He definitely deserves a taste of his own medicine.

That said, it probably won't work. The science article is a great way of bringing it up in a non-emotional way. But also, do the kids ever laugh? Do they every think it's funny? Because if they do, then he's right and it's fun. But if they don't, it's hard to see why he keeps doing it. Could you just point out that they never laugh?

[Carrie]

My dad did this exact kind of thing when I was a kid. I was so trusting that I fell for it every single time. When I was a little older I finally learned my lesson: never trust him. Of course, there was more to it than that, but to this day I rarely believe anything he says unless I have some sort of proof. I think this is harmful. Some kids might not be bothered, so I guess it depends on your kids. I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions on how to get him to stop.

[swissmiss]

Perhaps Natalie should show her husband a selection of these comments, especially Too Sensitive's comment?

[rudyinparis]

I agree with swissmiss that maybe if Natalie can have her husband read these comments, it may give him a different perspective. He sounds like a good guy, which makes the behavior particularly baffling. Can you imagine how annoying it would be to have someone doing stuff like that to you all the time? I mean, the trust (or distrust) issues it causes are one thing, but the sheer annoyance is another.

I also think Moxie is on to something when she speculates that this may be some odd throwback to his own childhood.

[wookie]

Mean. Downright nasty, actually. The "blame the victim for being too sensitive" has always been a gold standard of abuser behaviour. The reason it feels abusive is because it is. He's teaching his kids not to trust him.

It is my understanding that kids below a certain age simply don't have a cognitive understanding of sarcasam, period. There was a study done, but I can't find a link to it. I have a very black, very sarcastic sense of humor... but save it for much older kids, like pre-teens.

[wookie]

I actually outright disagree that N.'s husband should be reading these comments. I think the man needs professional help, and that reading this in this context would be a potential for a blow up.

I think he knows damn well that it's hurtful. I think he doesn't care or doesn't feel that it's his fault.

[caramama]

I was also going to link to the article in Science Daily. I found this sentence to be especially poignent: “Younger kids think slapstick is funny, and plays on words. But not sarcasm,” says Glenwright, adding that kids often perceive sarcasm to be mean-spirited.

Personally, I wouldn't give the husband a taste of his own medicine, because I would be afraid it would backfire. I'd be worried either he would think it IS funny, it would escalate things, it would just make him angry and cause a rift, or it would bring up issues from childhood that Moxie was talking about.

With my husband, I would use articles and stories of people, because he is a researcher like I am. I would sit down with him and have a serious conversation at a time that is removed from when he does it. I don't think it usually helps in the moment to bring it up, especially if the kids have just been upset and everyone is on edge. I would tell him that something has really been bothering me and that I had been looking into the idea of sarcasm/teasing and when the kids could understand it and found the Science Daily article (and others I'm sure are out there) and stories of adults who remember being teased as children. I would explain to him the short-term and long-term harmful effects of using this tactic of "play." But this approach may not work for your husband.

Personally, I remember being teased as a kid, and even if I was extra sensitive (and I'm not sure I was "extra"), does it matter? I think that especially sensitive people should be teased less, not be told to toughen up, and be respected for their sensitivity. Maybe if you remember being teased about something and how it upset you, you could start with that. And then you could ask him if he had a similar experience.

Or you could even make it about you and how it bothers you when people are teased because you remember being teased. That way it isn't about his parenting style and how his playing affects the kids, but about how it affects you.

Sorry this is so long, but I do feel strongly about this. Good luck to you, Natalie (and to paola and others dealing with similar issues).

[Katherine]

I dunno. I think that by people using sarcasm and teasing and stuff is how you learn to tell the difference between jokes and teasing and someone being mean to you. My dad and brother and I all teased each other (my brother is older than me by 3.5 years) and I caught on pretty quickly how to dish it back- and I remember getting pretty upset at some stuff, and my dad would always get down and look at me and explain that he was teasing, and he was sorry I was upset, but that it was for fun, and that usually made me feel better. I was older than Natalie's kids though, maybe six?

[Hilary]

Just because you learn something (how to deal with sarcasm, for example) doesn't mean that it is appropriate for a family relationship, especially if it is a common way of playing or communicating. Conditioning a child to live in a constant state of sarcasm, negative banter and hostility is not healthy.

[Katie]

I think it's mean, although he may not realize it's that mean. Some adults have a hard time understanding the world from a kid's perspective, so maybe he just needs more understanding.

If the husband is normally great with the kids, and this is just one annoying problem, I don't think Natalie should worry too much. It would still be good for him to stop, but most likely he will still manage to have a good relationship with the kids.

If this is how he normally treats the kids, though, with little or no consideration for their feelings then IMO it is a very serious problem. Honestly, I don't know WHAT to do about it though. My dad was a merciless teaser of the second type (the kind that doesn't care about or understand kid's feelings) and it caused huge problems in the family. It's definitely worth doing what you can to work this out.

I don't think giving him a taste of his own medicine will work. In my experience the people who tease can rarely take it themselves and if you hurt his feelings bad enough he's just going to go on the defensive and not actually work out any problems. If you can figure out a way to talk to him about it in a way that is non-threatening I think you will be much better off.

[jessica]

I wouldn't define this behaviour as sarcasm, but it's definitely very mean. For the reasons Moxie said.

[hedra]

I would also include the possibility that he's feeling particularly LOVING toward them at the time, and has zero training in how to express that, maybe even feels so vulnerable with it that it scares him, and so it comes out totally screwed. I've seen that in others, too - especially men who were never shown how men can be safely affectionate and tender within a family environment. In a situation where *I* would read 'overwhelming affection, love, and cherishing to the point of discomfort and a need for them to be safe and unharmed forever', they react with cruel jokes, personal digs, and other emotionally defensive behaviors. It screams to me 'I love you, and I can't bear it' - though this can also be a family pattern, and he may be repeating the 'when my father felt love, he was cruel and said it was funny'. I just think it is deeper than that.

And yes, it is mean. And no, I don't think it is intentional.

One of the things to remind him is perhaps this - that when we encounter overwhelming feelings, we'll do whatever it takes to get others to feel the same way. Neurologically, it is a relief from those emotions when you see them on another's face. So whatever we see in the child's face under those conditions is the feeling he's not able to process. The feeling of being loved/rewarded and then really hurt by those we love, and having that hurt be scary and unexpected and crushing. That's what he's acting out on them. He's acting out the knowing that the world can offer love and then crush the heart, offer joy and then snatch it back, offer hope and then disappoint totally; and likewise, offer pain and then change tracks to joy as unexpectedly. He's acting out the unpredictability of love and life when you love.

He may think this is appropriate training. However, one thing that stuck with me in some of my developmental psych reading (research commentary) was that while it *IS* essential that we learn the lessons that life brings us (including that life cannot be predicted), it is NOT needful, and indeed cruel, to set up those lessons. We're here to help them through the process, not to instigate the process. Imagine that we hope our kids will learn how to cope with an emotional heartbreak - do we hook them up with someone who will play them for a fool on purpose? How about wanting them to be able to cope with failure? Do we pay off the teacher to give them a test that is two years ahead of their ability? We want them to be able to bounce back in the face of public embarassment... but there's no way we'd ever set them up to be humiliated in front of their friends. If he is at all doing this 'on purpose' to teach them, extrapolate the process. It isn't necessary to be a stand-in for the lessons life will bring. Those lessons will come. Our job is the other side of it - being the back-stop, the support, the guide, and the resource.

That said, he does not need to mirror your style in this, be as lovingly supportive as you would be. He simply has to refrain from trying to set up the lessons. Kids become the most resilient when they have a range of responses to the distresses in their lives - but they'll only become wounded if the parents are setting up the distress.

Good luck communicating that to him. I'm not sure if it would be better to have him read the comments, or just paraphrase them, or send him to some research.

[amy]

Playing off an earlier point about approaching the topic when the behavior is not being engaged in - what would happen if you videotaped such a game? I mean, in the spirit of videotaping the kids as an addition to the family home movies, not as a case study. Hold on to it for a while and then watch it together, without the kids. Maybe once the dad is removed from the situation (heck, the mom too), the kids' expressions will be easier to read in an objective light.

I only suggest this because of something that happened to me two weeks ago. I disciplined my daughter for something but didn't appreciate what it was she was trying to do until I was telling the story to a coworker days later. The distance of time and change of place gave me a clarity I didn't have in the moment.

Regardless of how Natalie handles this, I hope everything works out for the best. FWIW, I think what she describes here is mean if played out over and over, but then, I've always been told I'm too sensitive.

[hedra]

Amy, the way you said that made me think exactly what we say when the kids tease each other or the cats: YOU (that is, the teaser) don't get to pick how the other person/creature feels.

If the cat doesn't like it, it doesn't matter if you thought it was funny. The cat didn't like it. Period. Intentions are not reality. The cat's reaction is the only reality that matters. Same for siblings, and for parent-child. This morning, I bapped G playfully on the arm with a wadded up bit of paper, and asked him to get moving. He said it felt like I was smacking him on the arm to get him moving. Just because *I* thought it was 'cute/silly' doesn't mean he thought it was. I explained my intent, but I also apologized for not reading him well. His job as a mature (10 year old) individual is to forgive me for an error despite good intent, and mine is to attempt to read him more effectively on arm-bapping.

Too sensitive? Is the cat too sensitive because it dislikes being hugged flat? The cat is the cat, and the cat gets to feel how it feels. NO diminishing the feelings of the cat, just because you really want to hug it flat. The cat is entitled to dislike being squashed, even if the OTHER cat purrs happily when squashed.

Like the idea of video taping it, btw. That can be really really effective. Audio taping is also effective. Great for hearing how we sound.

Another tool is from Everyday Blessings: the inner work of mindful parenting (title paraphrase there?): Imagine for 5 minutes what is is like to be the child with you as the parent - what is the experience of being your child like on a daily basis, or right now? That one is my 'yank myself up short' ritual - I too often find it is challenging to be my child, as hard as I try.

[natalie]

After reading your comments, I have to say one thing: Thank you. You made me realize something. I wrote the question wanting to be able to kick my husband's ass by showing him how many people agree with me and think that he is being mean. I wanted him to change. I still do, but I was also hit with the fact that *I* need to change. Those of you who said that he probably is not being mean intentionally are very right. He shows his love in lots of other ways, by caring more about having a responsible budget than working over-time and away from the kids, by wrestling with them, by reading to them, by playing outdoors with them. And yes, my husband did grow up in a home where his dad mocked him for crying and who would tease him if he ever did the normal things that kids do, like spill his milk or dress inappropriately for the weather. He was an on-again, off-again dad, leaving for weeks at a time...and finally leaving for good. Your comments made me realize two things: I am not often empathetic towards my husband when he is doing the things he was taught as a kid. I usually tell him, in the heat of the moment, that he is being a jerk. And I haven't tried to have an objective conversation with him later, after the incident, to discuss why he does this and to see if we can come up with other ways for him to "have fun" with our kids. I usually too annoyed. And I just didn't connect it with the fact that this is what he was taught. Your comments have reminded me that the way I communicate with him when I am annoyed may make all the difference in how responds (which has been defensive when I respond in criticism and anger). I will have to give you an update on how empathetic communication goes with him. Who doesn't get defensive when they are criticized for doing what they have grown up learning is fine or normal behavior?

[Rachel H.]

I'm a teaser too ... and I don't always know when to stop. Leaving aside the analysis of why, what I've taught my boys to do is say,

"Mom, please stop teasing me."

And I do.

[caramama]

Natalie - Glad to hear the comments have been helpful. I also wanted to recommend the book Playful Parenting, by Lawrence Cohen. He is a child psychologist who does "play therapy". It is an interesting perspective and might be able to help you and/or your husband come up with some play activities that will help them both cope with emotions that they have, especially considering what your husband learned as a child from his father. It's a really great book. Good luck, and do update us!

[rudyinparis]

I love Hedra's cat observation: a teaser doesn't get to say what the "right" reaction is. The right reaction is whatever the one being teased feels! I find myself going back to this concept over and over again in my life.

Natalie, what a great and thoughtful follow-up you have posted here. It's obvious you love your husband very much. It sounds like you have really been able to step back and look at this situation from a fresh perspective. So the last thing I have to say may not be useful, but I'll throw it in anyway: our therapist (yes, we're in therapy) made the point the other day that if someone, when DH was growing up, had slapped him whenever he came into a room I would certainly be sensitive to that and would want to know that and wouldn't think there was something wrong with him. I think what you've said here about your husband's father sheds a lot of light on your situation. Best of luck!

[rudyinparis]

What I left out: I wouldn't think there was something wrong with DH if he flinched every time he walked through a door.

[anonymous this time]

My grandfather was a huge teaser and very big into calling his grandchildren sissies or overly sensitive when they couldn't take it. It sucked. My parents weren't like that so much (they were more emotionally detached and overly critical), but the culture of teasing somehow went from my grandfather to all four kids in my family. I always found it extremely hurtful, at least in the way that it was usually done, which was to make fun of everyone for any little mistake. Sometimes, it was funny, but usually not. This is, more or less, the only way besides outright screaming that my family communicates.

I have a primed-and-ready-to-go instant teasing/put down/embarrass/make fun/criticize reflex, and I am only learning, as an adult, how to shut that off. It's hard. I have a hard time talking nicely to people when I am irritated at them, at work or roommates or whatever. (When I am not irritated or angry, I have less of a problem being nice.) I am afraid for the day when I have kids, but the progress I've made in therapy over the past nine years (I am now 28, been in therapy since 19, basically as soon as I left home) gives me a little bit of hope. I finally got up the courage to ask my brother (three years younger than me) to stop making fun of me, and he said that he would not. I tried to stop making so much fun of him, though. At least that's something.

[Julie]

Natalie, I think your observation about how your husband was raised and what is considered "normal" is a good one. Talk to him about the kind of parenting he had, and the different kind of parent he would want to be. My husband struggles with this too.....and it's a lifelong struggle, not one that will be fixed with one (or twenty) conversations. Talk to him when you are not in the heat of the moment and come up with some things you can say to him to let him know he's gone too far. Then when the kids are older, they can say it for themselves. The only rule is, when the phrase is said, that's IT. No more. Game over.

But IMHO....hello? This really isn't teasing. It's lying. And it is slowly building a layer of mistrust, regardless of all the other loving things he does. It takes 5 put-ups to erase 1 put-down. So unless he's doing 5 really nice and loving things for them for every ONE broken promise (and it sounds like he's doing 6 or 7 at a time).....well, they're going to be left with something.

[m]

My father would 'tease' us, but not in the way Natalie husband does. He would say mean things about us or other people to 'get a reaction'. He still does this and we've had some pretty big brawls about it as I'm not standing for it anymore. Especially when it comes to my son. There's enough negativity in this world, we don't need to get it from the people who supposedly love us.

It sounds like Natalie has a pretty good handle on the situation and it warms my heart to hear how she describes all the other great things about her husband, so I don't have really any advice to give, except perhaps this. If the situation continues, don't play the peace keeper when the children are older. My mom always would say things like 'oh, he's just doing it get a reaction' 'he does it because he loves you' 'he's just having fun'. My sister and I have come to resent both of them because of this. It felt like she was taking his side and basically saying what he was doing was acceptable. It would have been nice to hear every so often 'I know it hurts. i don't like it either' instead of 'you can't expect him to change'.

Grr. Sorry. I've hijacked this again.

Best of luck, Natalie. Sounds like you're going to work this out well, even if it doesn't happen overnight.

[liz]

Maybe Natalie can also tell him the things he's doing right as a parent and the good modeling he's doing in many ways.

And then ask him if the teasing is something he'd like the kids to imitate with each other or their friends? Or with their own kids?

He sounds like a loving dad. Teasing isn't something a loving dad wants his kids to do.

[Kirra]

Great comments everyone. Best of luck Natalie with talking to your husband about this issue. It must be tough to be in this position.

If the talking about it doesn't help maybe m might be on to something with the way mum reacts to the kids making a difference.

In the Siblings Without Rivalry book it talks about when one kid is hurt by the other, to take that kid away and comfort them, leaving the kid doing the hurting without the negative attention they may have been seeking.

Maybe you could do something similar. Like if he promises ice cream and then says "just kidding", say "that must be very disappointing for daddy to promise you ice cream and not give you any ... how about we go get some anyway."

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[Amy]

We tease a lot in my home, and I learned a valuable lesson about that a few weeks ago. My 7.5 yr old son lost a tooth one night and when the tooth fairy went to get it, she couldn't find it. Figuring it had slipped behind the bed, I didn't think another thing about it. Fast forward 3 days and my mom called to tell me my son had told my dad that he had stuck the tooth in his ear and it had never come out. When I confronted my son about this he confessed what he had done and said the tooth was still in there. Thinking this was quite funny--"A TOOTH in your EAR!!--we teased him what we thought was good-naturedly all through dinner. When I told my mom we'd been teasing him, she said we were being mean. While he bathed that night, I asked my son if I had upset him and he said a little. You see, we didn't *mean* to be mean. But his interpretation was that what we were doing was insensitive. So, Natalie, you might try asking your kids how they feel about daddy's teasing... their answers might get you farther than your own talking to him will.

In the same vein, my husband occasionally uses sarcasm to berate the kids when they don't do what they've been told... or when they persist in something that clearly isn't working for them. About a week ago I got tired of watching him do this to the eldest one, and I packed everyone up and headed to my parents for the evening. I'm not saying that the drama of leaving was the best way to handle the situation... but I got my point across that picking on the kids in a mean-spirited way that they can't grasp is not acceptable.

[lizzie]

Mean. Designed to taunt and control. Also, it's not "sarcasm." Look up the definition. Seriously.

[Sara]

I definately second the recommendation of "Playful Parenting".

[Shandra]

Natalie, I don't know if you're still reading but my husband was raised that way and before we had kids, he treated our nephews that way occasionally.

I just said "that was mean." Every time. Occasionally I'd say "wow that really upset Nephew." Not dramatically, just matter of factly. Then one day he asked me "do you really think that was mean?" and I said yes and why, and he's never done it since. With our son he's incredibly gentle.

I don't know if that would work on most people and I sure wish it would work with chores *g* but I do think that sometimes just sharing our observations can effect change.

[effective nancy]

My mother was very sarcastic (in the, "Oh, that's nice" meaning "that's terrible" kind of way) pretty much all the time when I was a child...and through to the present, and I learned sarcasm as a way of talking to people. I don't think that it makes me more likable as a person. Now I have an 18-day-old daughter, and I have caught myself telling her, for example, that her poosplosion was "lovely, and so much fun!" Though I sometimes can't stop myself from saying such things, I have made a conscious effort to correct myself immediately, in this case saying, "by which I really mean, poopsplosions are pretty gross, and you don't like it when I have to clean you up, do you?" (She doesn't.)

I think that this dad needs to learn to hear himself a little better from the kids' perspective, and see that they might not understand the layers of expression that he's presenting to them. I feel not only that by trying not to be sarcastic in the first place, but also by trying to give a clear indication of my meaning immediately if I do speak sarcastically, I might keep my little one from being quite so automatically sarcastic herself. In the same way, awareness of teasing's effects by this father and attempts to mitigate them might help keep these kids from resorting to teasing as a primary means of relating to others later on, which would be nicer all around.

[Zoe]

how do I ask moxie something if I have yahoo?
what is a URL?

[hedra]

zoe, at the top left is a link for her email address. Email her.

URL is the address for a website/blog, etc. - if you have a home page you want people to be able to click-through to, put it in the URL. If you don't, or don't want to include it, leave it blank.

[allison]

Mean, though perhaps not intentionally.

Moxie's suggestion of giving N's husband a taste of his own medicine? Also mean. Intentional mean. Two wrongs don't make a right, people.

[Zoe]

Thanks Nancy !

[Surcie]

Sorry you have to deal with this, Natalie. Something does seem mean-spirited about your husband's behavior.

[Michelle]

Mean. I say this is grounds to sit him down and tell him it stops, now, completely, forever. It's unnecessary and stupid IMHO. I agree with Moxie that it was probably done to him as a child and that he is not doing it on purpose but that is not an excuse to let him do it to your children.

Hopefully once you have explained why it bothers you he will understand and find other ways to amuse and play with the kids.

[Kate]

My husband and I have a rule that "we don't lie to our children." Lying breeds distrust, and perhaps that can be a way for Natalie to approach him.

Natalie, you might want to videotape him doing this with the kids, and then have a talk with him about a week later (or several days later.) Tell him that, while it might be a funny game, teasing your children in this way might breed distrust, and remind him how much he and you will need their trust later on, when you tell them about important things, like drugs. You might want to tell him that a girlfriend (see "toosensitive's" remarks) made you think about it the other day as an adjunct approach - so it seems as though it's something that came up externally, as opposed to something that you have been brooding on.

Then, for the second stage, I'd set up a video night to see recent videos. Include videos of fights between the kids or of behavior that you're working on, and periodically stop to say things like "Michelle, how do you think that Darren felt when you took his toy and pushed him?" and "Darren, how did you feel?" In the middle of them, I'd put the video of daddy teasing the kids. Show it, then stop and ask the kids how they liked it. Obviously if they say that they loved it, this blows the entire approach, but the kids might just tell dad themselves how it makes them feel.

You can adjust this in any way you like, of course (in my case, I'd just tell my husband directly that I want to try this.), but this multi-layered approach might work. It's also a great way to deal with behavioral stuff anyway.

Good luck.

Perhaps videotaping it and then

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