Holiday week discussion post

New post going up every day this week, but I won't be on email. Discuss whatever you need to in the comments, and pay it forward.

Comments

[caramama]

Moxie: This is a great idea! You know how we commenters love to chat with each other!

I would like to thank all the wonderful commenters here on this site. You all make it a wonderful, supportive place to come. I love to read everyone's comments.

I especially want to thank hedra:
hedra, I appreciate that you make time to comment with your experience and your opinions to the original question askers and also to even those people who have questions that they post in the comments section. You are always thoughtful and respectful. Even though you are sometimes long, you are always interesting with every word.

[Enu]

Just want to wish Moxie and family and all her followers Joy and Peace and all Good Things in the New Year!

[sam]

I want to add my best wishes to Moxie, Hedra (whose comments I always search for) and to all the witty, honest, supportive commenters. Thank you for this wonderful site.

I'm still out of mind with weeks of crappy sleep behind me, and no doubt more ahead with my lovely little 17 week old. Since every other parent I know appears to have nice, long napping, sleeping through the night babies, I come here for support and to read and re-read the comments on sleep regressions.

In few more weeks, I guess I'll be reading the posts on teething too.

It's just a phase, this too will pass, by any means necessary...

Merry Christmas Everyone (and lets hope Santa brings me either 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep OR something for my now purple eye bags!!)

[Hilary]

I wish I'd thought of this back when we were talking about Christmas gift ideas... hopefully it's not too late to spark some interest.

I decided this week to do something about the increasing angst I've been feeling about the sad state of the planet we're leaving our kids. The world our generation is leaving behind is looking more and more scary in terms of climate change, pollution, natural resource depletion... the list goes on and on.

So, part of my Christmas present to my bambinos this year is a pledge to be more "green".

Along with a little orca whale Christmas ornament to symbolize my pledge, I've put together a list of the key things I am formally promising them I'll do in an effort to reduce the ecological footprint I leave on this wonderful planet.

I'd like to challenge other parents out there to do the same thing! It costs nothing and comes straight from the heart. I've posted my pledge online as an example, and I've posted a template other parents can download and use to make thier own pledge-gift.

This is my pledge: http://www.uiconsulting.com/pledge/Pledge.pdf

Here is the editable Word Doc template: http://www.uiconsulting.com/pledge/Pledge_editable.doc

Wishing you all a safe, happy holiday filled with love and winter wonder.

[Maureen]

I too want to thank Moxie for her site. It is the first one I look at each morning and I too love all the commenters and the respect they offer to everyone in their suggestions and just sharing where they've been. I too love Hedra's comments - as a mom of twins I feel so overwhelmed sometimes but Hedra makes it seem so doable that it gives me hope :) and also something to strive for.

Here's to a fabulous 2008 and lots and lots of sleep for all of us!

Merry Christmas.

[lorraine]

I've been lurking all year, and I don't know if I could have made it through the last 7.5 months of mothering without Moxie and all the wonderful commenters! Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and thanks from my husband and from baby Noah. We all benefit from your collective wisdom - and we hope we'll have some to share in 2008!!! Happy New Year to all!!!

[Kristen]

I love the idea of the green pledge!! Thank you for your link. I edited and sent it out to all of my friends and family to encourage them to also make efforts to go green. What a great idea!

[Sherry]

Also want to say thank you to Moxie and all the commenters! I'm so glad someone recommended the site to me about four months ago. My daughter is 8 months old. I've improved my milk supply in the last few weeks thanks to you guys. I've gotten to sleep earlier. And who knows what else. I quote you all the time. To all with younger babies, life gets easier! I promise!

[Erika]

I, too, want to thank everyone here for being so wonderful and honest and supportive and understanding. I love this community - I'm almost always a lurker because life is too crazy for me to handle, most days. But I've gotten the best advice here and don't think I would've made it through my daughter's first year without you all. Thanks, moms. You all give me hope for the future.

[Nola]

Many thanks to Moxie for keeping up this terrific site. I get so much out of it. My 17 month old son leaves me sleepless by night and exhausted by day (and I work part-time) because he wakes up screaming 2 to 3 times a night, yet runs like the wind during the day. He takes an hour before I can get him back in his crib sometimes. If/when he cosleeps, he injures me! I am constantly composing emails to Moxie at 3:30am. So I am glad I can find some solace on the internet.

[Katy]

Like everyone else, I want to thank Moxie for this wonderful site. I have an 18 month-old and I read this site every day for the helpful advice and reassurance that Moxie and the commenters offer. Though I don't know you "in real life", I feel like you are all neighbors in the "it takes a village" part of raising children. I hope you all have a joyful and restful holiday!

[pennifer]

i also want to thank Moxie for this great site. i've been reading it since before i was pregnant, and now that we have a wonderful almost-5 week old boy, it's even more wonderful. recent highlights are the discussion on oversupply (in spades here) and sleep strategies.

one thing i'd love to hear other peoples' comments on is how to deal with the hubby's wonderful desire to bond with our boy, a desire is currently somewhat stymied by the powerful lure and appeal of my boobs. papa feels like he can't compete and gets really upset sometimes, accusing me of interfering (which he knows is not rational, but feels it anyway) with his efforts to bond. [awful sentence structure due to sleep deprivation]

[Julie]

Ahh Moxie. Thank you for so much. I originally found this site when looking for advice on dropping the morning nap and going down to one nap a day...I was desperate for anything that sounded like a good idea other than dropping him off at the local firestation. When I read Moxie's words about how napping transitions and schedules will really mess with your head, I knew I had found a friend.

I love the commenters here....I know it makes Hedra uncomfortable to be called out, but I have to. She just has such a way of putting things in perspective. It's been a great year for me getting to know all of you, hearing about things you are struggling with and hearing exciting news announced. I feel like I know all of you, yet would walk by you on the street and not recognize you.

@Pennifer.....my humble advice is for you to give your boy the boob right after he wakes from a nap...get him nice and full and then leave the house for 30 minutes. Go for a walk, go get a coffee....go sit in your car and talk on the phone. The only way your husband will be able to be attractive to the little one is if you are nowhere around. He can smell you in the next room so that isn't going to work. Your husband is right...he needs some time and space around the little guy to figure out his own strategies and start creating his own routines. Believe me....it will make your life SO much easier later on if they both get comfortable with each other now. You will be #1 for a very long time, so any opportunities for your husband to be "primary caretaker" should be siezed. You never know when you're going to want/need him to step in to save your sanity. You don't want a rookie going into the game.

Good luck!

[Kira]

I, as with everyone else here, would like to thank Moxie and this wonderful site. I have only been on it for a few weeks, but already I have learned so much. My little boy is going to be 1 in two weeks (am I the only one who feels really sad about the first birthday?) and I have comfort in knowing that every stage of the way I will be able to come here for advice.

Pennifer - I used to give my boy to my hubby right after a feeding. He would love taking him out for a walk and when he was doing that, I would be able to do what I wanted around the house - be it cleaning, showering, napping, or just flicking through the channels! Now that he is older, my hubby loves taking him everywhere....says he's a real "chick magnet"!

[Jo-Ann]

I have been here since your first post and I come back everyday. I have recommended your site to everyone I know! It is one of the only jerk-free Mom zones. Your site is so special because the commenter's are so helpful as well. Have a great year Moxie and all who make this site so special

[caramama]

@Pennifer - I have the same advice as the others. Fill him up, hand him over, do your own thing. For me, it was usually napping in another room or while hubby took the Pumpkin on a walk. Also, we made sure that hubby took some of the night duty, when I knew the Pumpkin wasn't hungry cause she just ate but she couldn't sleep. Hey, if he wants to bond, that means at night as well as during the day!

? for the group: I feel completely overwhelmed by just this one baby. How on earth would I manage more than one? Hubby and I have always really wanted 2 or maybe 3, and even though lately I just can't imagine--it's hard enough with one. We will definitely have more, and plan to start trying again this summer. Can anyone please tell me some ways that having more than one is easier? Do they entertain each other or something like that? Will this high-needs baby of ours get easier after 1 year so another is more doable? TIA!

[caramama]

Doh! And I totally meant to say to those who celebrate it:

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

[Heather]

Moxie is awesome & a daily read for me. THANK YOU.

Ok - for the question... Christmas Eve gave me 3 pee sticks that say the same thing that I am NOT prepared for. What are my first priorities? Food, water, doc - what else?

{PS, I'm not ready for congratulations yet- I'm at the WTH??? stage still}.

[sam]

CARAMAMA - I have exactly the same question. I'm finding my first one such hard work. She's a terrible sleeper and I feel physically ill from the sleep deprivation. I'm seriously reconsidering having more (and I'd always wanted 2). I couldn't cope with a toddler as well as such a needy baby.

My theory: like the pain of childbirth - the pain of these tough times MUST disappear with time. PLUS, it MUST get easier at some point, so you can see that you WILL get through it with a second.

I'd be interested to hear of any others' experiences.

[Julie]

Caramama and sam.....for a long time I thought I could not go through it again. Then around 15-18 months I started thinking "Ya, I could do this again someday....but not yet." Then at around 24 months I started thinking less about IF I could do it and more about WHEN I would do it. You'll get there. For us, it's more about getting the older one a bit more independent and into his own activities.....and getting our marriage, financial situation and other necessities in a solid place. The bonus is that we will be able to enjoy a baby and a small child (as opposed to TWO babies). But that's just us.

Heather.....get some folic acid or some prenatal vitamins as well. And start making a list of things you are excited about...even if it's only one or two items long. Good luck!

[Cloud]

I'm so glad I found Moxie! I was mourning the loss of my wonderful breastfeeding support group when I went back to work fulltime, and then I found this site, which is the internet equivalent. I love love LOVE this site. Thank you Moxie, and all the commenters for making it so wonderful. I've been going and visiting the blogs of the commenters, too, and finding that to be a lot of fun.

@Pennifer- I had a one day conference to go to when Pumpkin was 6 weeks old. I left her with Daddy and a bunch of pumped milk. It was hard to do, but great for both of us. I got to remember that I am an independent woman as well as a Mommy, and my Hubby got to figure out his own special baby soothing techniques. It was a real turning point for us. If your baby is taking a bottle, consider leaving for a day, or even just for a long lunch.

@Caramama and Sam- I'm with you. Pumpkin is 8.5 months old, in the midst of a heap of sleep hell (head cold, followed by stomach bug, followed by the need to stand up everytime she wakes up...) and I'm thinking wistfully of the days when I used to get to sleep for four hours straight and can't imagine adding another baby to this mix. However, all of my friends with more than one assure me that sometime around 18-24 months things get better and the baby gets soooo cute and wonderful but is starting to not be such a baby... and you decide to have another one. Actually, I remember reading a Moxie post on this topic once and finding a lot of comfort in it (as usual).

[AmyinMotown]

I hope you all had a wonderful, restful and happy holiday (sounds like some of you would rather have eight hours of uninterrupted sleep than the finest diamonds --and OH yes I have been there). I am so grateful for this Moxie and this supportive community and want to send you all cookies, free stuff and big inappropriate hugs.

And yeah, mine was every bit of two before I began thinking I could do another baby, maybe. Then of course as soon as I got pregnant her sleep went to hell for a few months and I wondered what exactly we were thinking! It's all OK now, though, except now I can't sleep. SIGH.

And I have a vent/family issue to post, but we're all so warm and fuzzy and grateful I don't want to bring down the room.

[Dawn]

Like everyone else, said, thanks to Moxie and Merry Christmas, happy holidays, whatever your flavor!

To Caramama, my first was a terrible sleeper and I totally identify with your question. She's four now and we just had the second (actually within days of her first birthday). The second is a completely different person and a reasonably good sleeper, to boot (or at least a good sleeper by comparison, which is all that matters in my house). My cousin says that having one is just playing house (no offense intended to people who choose to have just one - I think he would've been happy with just one). What he means is that when you have one, you can trade off, but as soon as you have the second, it becomes a man to man defense, or at least that's our experience! I think that as your first gets a bit older, you become more willing to take that step and at least for me, it's about embracing the chaos. Good luck!

[rudyinparis]

Happy holidays everyone! I always really appreciate the comments here. A shockingly accepting community of intelligent, sane, thoughtful individuals. Thanks to Moxie for creating it and thanks to Hedra for being so freaking wise. (Am I the only one who reads her posts and thinks, "Man, I should not have spent the better part of my youth stoned" just because nothing, NOTHING escapes her gaze or memory. Many, many things escape me. I'm kind of a vague person, in general.)

Also just want to point out that a highlight for me here for 2007 was the announcement of pnuts mama's pregnancy. I just loved how she let us in on her thoughts during those days. I genuinely became very excited and happy for her and felt privileged to be in on it.

Also the discussions about BF and also the whole WOHM "vs." WAHM discussions have proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that this site is exceptional in its ability to find commonalities over differences.

And of course, the robust speculation over "the hobby" was an instant classic.

Cheers to you all!

[MrsHaley]

Thanks and big love to Moxie & the commenters for another source of support & ideas during my baby's first year(12/15 -- the first bday was tough, Kira!). I'm an everyday visitor too. One of the things I appreciate most is the freedom to search for / discuss topics that seem off limits among friends or in moms' groups ... marriage troubles, illogical angry feelings, disappointment and negativity in general. The frank honesty about those tough things is so helpful, and our quasi-anonymity makes me feel safer in being perfectly up front about things I might not say IRL. That helps the feedback be totally real, too. It helps me feel less crazy. Gotta love that.

Also, Hedra ... love you. You help me be a better mother, wife and individual. Thank you every day.

@Heather -- My mama says that's why it takes 9 months! You have plenty of time. Sit with it for a while and try the old "one day at a time." You don't have to be really ready for a long, long time yet. But take a folate and call the doc eventually, ok? Hang in.

[SarcastiCarrie]

RudyInParis (except totally not in Paris and I am glad I wasn't the only one shocked that you were not in Paris) - Oh, yes, THE HOBBY. I had almost forgotten about the HOBBY. It was all I thought about for two days and here, I almost forgot about that. So much fun. Civil War Re-Enacters Unite.

About bringing a second baby into the mix and chaos....I have no idea if they play together or if it's easier (which I suspect it is just because you know you will survive), but I know somewhere inside me I CRAVE a second baby. It's like some kind of primal, biological thing, which makes total sense for the survival of the species. However, this desire and drive for a baby is so much LESS this time around than it was the first.

Also, to everyone whose child does not sleep, fantasize about the day when your child moves out and at 6 am on Sunday morning, you call letting your child know that you just had to get up to get a drink of water and go potty and you're on your way back to bed, but you just thought he should know and hope everything is fine, love you, honey. I don't remember where or when I heard this, but it gets me through the night (and day and weekends and holidays).

Oh, and don't be too proud to get sleep whatever way you can. My child would never sleep in the car. HA HA HA. I cannot tell you the last time I put my son down for a nap that did not specifically involve the car, and I share this so that you know it's OK and you are not alone.

Joyous Boxing Day to all.

[Maureen]

Just piping in again since this is a general area for comments during the holidays. I feel so sad the month of December and all the holiday festivities are over but at the same time I am so happy yesterday is over. Part of me loves the whole big happy family celebration (didn't really have that growing up) but some how it never turns out how I imagine it to be. I actually feel more lonely and sad when everyone is over for the "big" day.

Also, any suggestions (for next year) on how to make Christmas day not such a free-for-all... maybe that's just life with kids now. It just seemed unfair to them too - everybody showing up with lots of stuff to open, not really having a chance to play with one toy before they are supposed to open the next and then with all the people over much more chaos than normal. That sounds so whiney I know but not sure how else to explain it. We spent the last half of the day trying to recover and making it more of a "normal" evening which made me feel like we got jipped out of half of a Christmas day.

And, the whole plastic toy thing... ugh. I tried, I really tried to be upfront and communicate about not wanting a lot of that stuff in my house. After all the unwrapping now I have too much cr@pola - lots of plastic and lots of noise. My kids received pretty much only plastic/noisy toys even from my friends (that are moms themselves). I've hidden a lot of it, not sure what to do with it now. I actually feel funny donating it as not sure I want to subject those on someone else. Facing writing a lot of thank you notes saying things I don't really feel.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. I think I am in the post-holiday blues.

On a happier note - anyone have any creative suggestions for celebrating New Year's Eve (day or early evening) with toddlers? We want to try to do something fun as I know my boys are bummed the holidays are over and not sure what just happened and why it all has to go away now.

[flea]

New Year's with toddlers - bake a birthday cake for the new year? We've also made a kind of jell-o that is "champagne" - IIRC you make it with soda water and it has little bubbles in. We chill it in wine glasses for extra festivity (depending on the age/hazard level of the kids). Straight from the box 0 just look in the jell-o section.

I too was overwhelmed by Christmas. Too many presents, too much muchness. mr. flea and I didn't exchange gifts and got very little for the kids and still we're overwhelmed with family gifts (though my MIL and SIL listened well and only got us clothes and books). Also, I am irked at my father for deliberately buying a loud noisy toy for my son, I think to spite me (since he admitted he did this last year with my daughter's toy - we said "anything with no batteries and not pink" and he got her a barbie karaoke machine, and told us he did it as a 'joke' to us.)

[hedra]

Thanks to Moxie, for this site.

And great thanks to all the commenters (including the ones who post infrequently and briefly), for creating a community where I don't feel like I'm an utter oddball. Knowing there are others who care about the same things I do, and who are striving for the same goals, is ... well, lovely. I feel among peers, and you all make it easier for me to see where *I* am going, and to find the words (many many words) to explain it. Without you, I wouldn't come up with the turn of phrase or the distillation (at length, LOL!) of purpose, and would have greater gaps of time between moments of insight. I suck in a vacuum, so to speak. Any depth in what I write is a reflection of the depth you all bring.

Caramama, second child SO MUCH EASIER in so many ways, for me. If your first child makes you struggle, IMHO odds are good that the second child, regardless of individual issues, will be less of a brain-whacking transition. My example - G, overall pretty easy child, yet our lives hit a wall, shattered into bits, and had to be put back together in a new way - new relationship between me and DH, new relationship with family, new lifestyle, new priorities, new schedules, new everything. Second child, we headed for that wall, but there was no splatter - we were already reshaped, already fit through the gap, already had our passions realigned, already had given up (with a laugh at 'what were we thinking?') on some long-held dreams and plans. We'd let go, taken the plunge, were already soaked to the skin. What's a little more wet? Second plunge isn't the same degree of shock.

B had some health issues right off, very stressful - but adding him was like turning a page in a book... it was the same, just further, and while all the words were not the same as the page before, I knew how to read them. I knew how to ask for help, I knew enough about breastfeeding to know when something was wrong, even if it was a 'new' wrong. I knew that the first 6 months would be hunker-down-and-get-by, and the second six would be more exciting but also more variable, sudden peaks and valleys, and that after that, we'd start rising back into the light of day bit by bit, with some continued variability. I knew how to learn, I trusted that I could bond, that my relationships would shift and reform once more... and that I could love another child, even if I doubted the possibility of loving another *quite* as much. I mean, how could that love (LOVE) happen twice? It was a gift, unique, impossible to replicate.

But once he was born, I was a bit taken aback by the love thing - it was almost a shock to find that I loved a second child with the same love as the first. I know some people say that their hearts grow with each child, but to me, it was ... well, not one-to-one, but encompassing. Like that vast ocean of love wasn't a gift handed off one-to-one, but an ocean in which first one child swam, and then two children swam together (and then four). The exact manner of their relationship with that ocean of feeling was different from each other - the way they interact with my love for them is unique... but it is the very same vast love, encompassing both, encompassing all. The ocean is not divided by the number of swimmers, it is as vast and powerful and deep no matter how many swim in it. That's what it felt like for me - there is a different relationship to the first child in, to a degree - you get to see them more fully and observe more intensely and without distraction. But there's also the love of watching them interact together in that love, which is a compounded joy. And the love is the love is the love.

Um, anyway, hard to explain, I guess! LOL! Doubt is normal. Doubt is part of the transition process. Even being totally certain that one cannot make this transition, that one cannot love the second as much as the first, that one cannot cope with the change, demands, needs, time, etc. ... that's normal, and maybe even necessary for those who feel it. Going through doubt to understanding is powerful. You'll get there. It will have hard parts, and some will be painfully hard, but it's just pain, and difficulty, and neither of those is *failure*. They are only experiences, not measures of your life. You will learn, you will adapt, and you will find joy in it, eventually (and if you're not, you've got Moxie's excellent PPD advice to help you relocate the joy).

As for Christmas, enjoyed giving so many charitable gifts this year. Organ donation and The Hunger Project. Liked that my IL's for the first time gave charitable gifts to the kids, as well (Heifer International).

[caramama]

Thanks to everyone commenting about second kids. It helps to hear. And I might just be in a funk. We'll see.

Heather - Get thee some pre-natal vitamins, pronto!! Also, start taking care of yourself, food and health including mental health. I think it also helps to have someone to talk to that understand the mixed emotions you are probably feeling. If you don't have someone IRL, feel free to email me or I'm sure everyone would be supportive if you posted a vent here. One of my best friends was recently surprised, and I believe it has helped her a lot to chat with me about it.

SarcastiCarrie - It was Moxie who said that about calling up the college kid/adult early in the morning. It was a conversation she had with coworkers. I remember this only because I JUST reread it the other day and got such a laugh! And "Civil War Re-Enacters Unite." hehe.

rudyinparis - Oh, the hobby! I was just thinking about that yesterday! I'm joined in the To Be Read Challenge for 2008 (http://tbrchallenge.blogspot.com/) and want to list my books in a side bar on my blog. I kept thinking of Moxie's Reading is My Hobby.

Maureen - I'm sure it's totally post-holiday blues. It's totally understandable. I'm discovering that I really don't like Christmas because of all the stress and things to do. I think what's really needed for me (and maybe you) is changing my expectations to be more realistic of what the holidays are really like. I think celebrating the New Year is a great idea for your kids to not have too much let down. Also, you should totally donate the toys you don't want. Some of us (like me--I know, I know) actually like those toys and wish we got more! We got mostly clothes and books, and my active, light-watching, sound-loving daughter really needs more toys!

[hedra]

Oh, and by dint of 10 years of repetition and a major family crisis last year, we had minimal CPC this year, simpler and more thoughtful gifts (including passing on of items from older cousins who no-longer need/want them), and mainly the CPC was the tea sets (which were a targetted gift to solve a particular interest need without breakability). Score! But still, the house is overflowing, and I'm going to have to cull even MORE from the 'toy library' than I had already done, to make it fit (fortunately, my mom also bought mostly toys to live at her house, so the overflow is somewhat contained by distribution).

What we do for New Year's - celebrate new years DAY, with snackie food all day. In my mom's tradition that means smoked seafood hors d'oevres (gah! How is that spelled?), caviar, smoked salmon, smoked oysters/clams/mussels, capers, onions of various sorts, pickles and other salty/spicy/sweetish bits all chopped up and made into individual creations on crackers with cream cheese (or in my case, hummus)... while watching movies and drinking something sparkly, until we're stuffed and reek of what DH calls 'stinky fish'. :D Heaven. Some kind of indulgent culinary exploration for kids could be make-your-own treats of other sorts, anything involving dips or sprinkles (herbs, etc.), and everyone getting a little silly making weird or interesting combinations... use cookie cutters to cut out bread shapes and stack sandwich makings, or make 4 kinds of thick soup and dip breadsticks and veggies, etc. New Years for us is about abundance.

New Year's Eve, though, we'll be dancing and chatting and enjoying bagpipes and scottish music, all six of us, the boys all in kilts (yay, men in kilts, mmmm). I have to lengthen G's kilt this year, fortunately I made it with a deep hem anticipating a growth spurt (kilts are not normally hemmed, but I'm not wasting the fabric by using the selvage for the kids kilts!).

Flea, I'm irked for you at your dad's power trip. "If your granddaughter's life is a joke to you, then we can take the laughter somewhere else next year." is my automatic knee-jerk *I AM THE MOMMY HERE AND YOU'D BETTER LEARN TO RESPECT THAT* reaction. Granted, I'd probably calm down before saying that in person, but... well, I may be diplomatic in general, but I don't always feel that way right off! Grumpy for you.

[hedra]

Another note to help Christmas along, as worked through by DH: Set a goal that has to do with the kids having fun and being sane, and not to do with any concrete item/activity. When we remember to set the goal to be 'kids enjoy themselves, are fed when hungry, and are supported through the process so that they get the most out of it', we end up leaving when things cease to be fun, but we also spot issues faster, and are less caught up in what others expect (that is, just because they always do X does not mean that it is best for the kids, so, today, we're doing Y, because it is clear they're not coping with X).

For example, we have a pre-Xmas trip to a botanical garden each year, with assembled multitudes. My mom's goal is to see it all and enjoy it all with everyone. Our goal (initially unstated, as we'd forgotten to focus on it at first) was to ensure the kids had joy in the process, were not overstimulated, and were fed before they got overly hungry. My mom's plans kind of didn't work the same pattern as ours, as a result, and so we split up the party and they went home while we headed for the cafe to feed the kids. After dinner, we went back outside and looked at the lights, and wandered just enough for the kids to really soak up the lights, and then proceeded through the gift shop AGAIN with the goal of their pleasure and coping, rather than 'getting through and getting out' or some such, and they got to spend some of their Xmas money pleasantly and with very little fuss, and we went home full to the gills of a lovely lovely time. If we'd insisted on the usual 'stick together, because we're a family and do this together' thing, my mom would have been grumpy and tired by the time we were done with dinner, and that would have spilled over badly (BTDT!) on everyone else.

Likewise with Xmas events - stating the goal being 'the kids enjoy and are not overwhelmed and are fed in a timely manner' allowed us to let go of some of our own unstated plans/goals (funny how those sneak in without being labeled, sigh), and that meant we suggested things that weren't typical, but they were generally accepted because they obviously were WORKING. My mom wanted gifts opened one at a time, but we just worked past that and into a cadence that kept the kids engaged without being frantic/free-for-all.

Not sure that will work at every household/family gathering, but it eases up our own issues remarkably when we do it, and keeps things focussed on problem-solving rather than 'following the tradition'/'lock-step through the rituals' (regardless of impact on everyone).

[SarcastiCarrie]

Thanks, caramama. It's good to know the source, because I am repeating this daydream to myself every few days. I can only imagine how the cell phone will actually be implanted in the brain by the time Child is in college.

Last year, I was totally let down by Christmas, and I don't even know whether it was Christmas that did it or my expectations of Christmas or the fact that EVERYONE ignored the no batteries/no noises rule I had set forth.
This year, I had a better midset and the (I swear to you) TOY JACKHAMMER we received was accepted appreciatively (and hidden in our house until a day I really need to provide some distraction). And the (perpetually) late in-laws did not bother me because I just ignored them and served brunch when I was planning whether they were ready or not. I feel that this was the bestest Christmas ever, and I remained upbeat. And I must remember this next year, because I feel this might be my greatest accomplishment ever.

PS - Who invented a TOY JACKHAMMER?

[hedra]

Oh, and Pennifer - My DH quit his job and stayed home for the first year of G's life, and he was STILL chopped liver the second I (the transporter of the magical boobies) appeared. It was challenging for DH to swallow that, but he had fortunately seen it happen in his brother's family before we even had kids. And when the flip came, it came like a breaker getting pulled. One night, in the middle of the night, G woke crying, and when I walked into the room, he screamed at me (really SCREAMED), N'ot Mommy, DADDY! DADDY!' Um, hey, okay! Me back to bed, you're ON! And DH was THE MAN (except when nursing was required, and I was clearly only a device at that point), for months on end after that. It took 2 1/2 years or so for that switch to hit the first time, but it hit, and it was pure and true and powerful, and gratifying, and frustrating, and gave DH a new appreciation for being 'the only one who will do'. I think it took about two weeks before he said 'I'm so sorry I didn't appreciate how exhausting it is to be the only one who will do'.

Let your DH work out his own rituals and activities, but also let him know that the child decides what the schedule of bonding pattern/sequence/priority is - our four have varied individually a great deal. G switched back and forth until he could switch at will, B bonded to both at once (that sucked! he needed us to BOTH respond... whee, and hello cosleeping!), M kinda sorta preferred me but really wanted to be left alone, R always would take me but really preferred DH - no question on that even from the first few weeks - and hasn't switched yet. If I'd had just R, I'd have felt eternally a second-class parent. Having four, I know it isn't about me at all. I can comfort her (R), we have our rituals, and there are times she prefers me, but they're usually more 'Daddy is busy' rather than 'you're who I really need right now'. It doesn't bother me (much, LOL!), and I do enjoy the little gleeful smirk she gets when he picks her up (Daaa-dee, I got my DA-dee!). It is what it is, and it's not about me, it's all them.

[caramama]

Thanks again, everyone.

AmyinMotown - I meant to say that you should let out your vent! We can be warm and fuzzy as well as listening and supporting a vent, right? This community is amazing like that!

[SarcastiCarrie]

AmyinMotown - Bring it. We're ready. Bring us your tired, your weary, your inappropriate brother-in-law jokes, your pregnant sisters-in-law, your hurtful fathers, drunken santas, politically incorrect elderly relatives comparing the love you have to children by adoption to the love you have for a puppy, your just relaxes, your lighten-ups, your feeding your dairy intolerant toddler cheese cake relatives. We can commisserate (there, there, you were so in the right) and help you plot revenge all in a single post.

And Heather - Prenatal vitamins (or even regular ones if you don't have prenatals and aren't ready to go into public and buy those), figuring out who you should tell (if anyone) who will support you emotionally, and then a doctor.

[rudyinparis]

SarcastiCarrie--your post made me groan and laugh at the same time! Brilliant! I concur-AmyInMotown, we have room in our hearts for venting. Here--I'll start--why do my Mom and Dad, who I love, act like DH and I are utterly crazy when in fact we're quite normal? (Example: buying organic.) There, see how easy that was? I think post-Christmas venting should be a hallowed tradition.

Also @Heather--like another poster said, and my SIL always did, too--there's a reason why we're pregnant for 9 months! Give yourself time and space. Know that everything you're feeling is exactly what someone in your position should and would feel--because it is what you're feeling and you're the person in that position! (Convoluted, but I hope you get what I'm trying to say.)

[SarcastiCarrie]

This is not a vent, but actually a rather funny story. My step-mother got my father a pair of boots this Christmas. They were nice boots, really, but not at all the ones he wanted and I could tell he was looking for a nice reason to take them back. He examined the box and said some ooohs and some ahhhs and tried the right boot on. A little snug, he pronounced. Then he pulled the second boot out of the box and noticed it, too, was a right boot! Problem solved. The boots go back. Both boots were right feet and one was a size 9 and the other a 10. I'm sure some other man opened a strikingly similar gift but with two lefts!

[Julie]

Boy am I enjoying this. Yes, Amyinmotown, we want to hear what you have to vent about. I'm certain I'll have an opinion about it....and if you like, I'll make it so I agree with you. But I can do honest too....simply request which kind of support you would like. You might get lucky and have both honest and agreement. Those are good days.

I had a sobering epiphany over the weekend - my husband went home alone to take care of his mother's funeral arragements, services, cleaning out her apartment, etc. and for the first time I realized that many of the problems we've been having in our marriage stem from me being selfish. I do a lot around the house (cook, some cleaning, laundry, dishes, caring for our child) in addition to working full time.....but realized that I do most of that for myself - because that's the way I like it and I want it done on my timeline, not necessarily my husband's. So really, I do all that for me. There's very little I do that is just for him. And sending him off alone on an airplane while I stayed home with our son seemed......wrong. Selfish. So I'm planning on making some changes this year and seeing if they make a difference in our relationship.

[caramama]

@SarcastiCarrie and rudyinparis - You guys are funny! I almost spit out my mouthful of water with the laughing!

In fact, there are so many funny women who comment on this site, in addition to Moxie who is always funny, too! Thanks for that everyone!

Post-Christmas venting: It turns out, I hate Christmas. There is just too much stress about what you are supposed to get done and too much dealing with families for it to be fun for me. Nothing major happened, just stress.

Now one of my friends called me today, and she had quite a bit to vent about. She lurks here sometimes, and I told her about hedra's comment today about re-prioritizing the holiday to make sure the kids are having fun and are not hungry (and I added in overtired). I think it helped, and I know it was an epiphany for me. Thanks, hedra!

Okay, that's it from me today. I swear!

[miznoire]

Wow! This site rocks. I wish I had found it about 3 years ago...but I think I still need stuff like this. This is my first post and I already feel like I have learned some things just by reading threads. So far, I love the feeling of inclusiveness and acceptance combined with a healthy degree of eccentricity.

I have a lovely daughter who is giving me some challenges at 3 and I think I will be a frequent reader in 2008. I am also an "older mommy" --just a hair past the 40 year old milestone -- and I am planning on stopping at one child. Sometimes I feel like I don't fit in with other groups because I am always the oldest person in the room and I don't have the dynamic of juggling more than one child at all times. It looks like this site attracts parents in all situations, so I look forward to more wisdom from across the spectrum.

I have a close friend, also in my age group, who just gave birth to her second and I believe she is feeling very overwhelmed right now. I will refer her to this site asap!

Cheers to all.

[staceytronic]

I was browsing the comments and I saw someone make reference to how much they enjoyed speculating about "the hobby". I am a pretty nosy person, so I got curious. I looked around and found the original post, but I never did find out what "the hobby" was. Did Moxie ever tell?

Also, as you can probably tell by reading my first question, I'm pretty new to the site but I have thoroughly enjoyed every post. Thanks to Moxie, and thanks tothe thoughtful and witty commenters.

[m]

I'd also like to thank Moxie and everyone who contribute to this site. You're all so knowledgeable, funny and respectful. I know I don't comment that much, but I feel very lucky to be part of this community.

Heather--for both of my pregnancies I went through the WTH/WTF?! stage. I think it's very normal, even when they are planned. It's a huge big deal. I like the above commentor's suggestion of making a list of all the things you're looking forward to. Get some folic acid and a good midwife/doctor and allow yourself to freak out.

So, I have a question. My second child is due in just over a month. We're planning a home birth as we did with our son. He'll be about 22 months when Number Two emerges. My sister is going to take care of him during the birth, but I kind of would like him there when the baby is actually born. My husband thinks that'll be too much, too intense for him. For those of you who have had homebirths or children at your births, what advice/suggestions might you have? Is 22 months too young?

[Cloud]

@Julie, I think that new motherhood can be so life-changing that you can find it hard to have the energy left to treat the other people in your life, including your husband, the way you want to. I have struggled with this, too. I don't know if I have found a good way to handle this, but my husband and I talked about it and he really did understand and that made me feel better. So now I try to do things for him now and then, but I also try to cut myself some slack. It is hard being the Mommy, and most Daddies understand that.

[z]

So I want to add to the glowingness and say that yes this site rocks. I am a frequent reader, occasional commenter and have asked a few questions here and there.

I have learned many valuable things from this site which have made me be a better parent. Some of the more important ones are:
1. I AM THE PARENT. I know best.
2. Each child is an individual.
3. If something doesn't work now, do something different for now and then try again later.
4. I am not alone.
5. This too shall pass.
6. Excellent book suggestions.

And as for the future, we are expecting #2 in 2008 and so I have a feeling there will be many pleas at that time for coping with the inevitable madness of 2 under 2.

[Simone]

I'm too exhausted by my 9 month old's bout with pneumonia and double ear infection to come up with much, except thanks to Moxie and all the regulars who make this site such a welcoming, prolific mothering community.

Have a wonderful 2008!!!

[erika]

Just wanted to chime in with everyone else and thank Moxie for this site. Your advice and the advice of the fantastic group of commenters has allowed me to relax about being a mommy. There is so much support and love and community here. I recommend this site to everyone with children (and those without who know people with children). It really is the best parenting site. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[pennifer]

Thanks to all who commented about my question. Hedra's comment about recognizing it's the child who leads the bonding process to a certain extent is quite helpful. Now I just have to figure out how to communicate some of these ideas to him, since he hates to be "taught" by me. Sigh.

On the plus side, now that he's got a handle on bottle-feeding, things are a little bit easier. Now, if I could just stop feeling like a milking factory when pumping, I'll be all set.

[SarcastiCarrie]

Oh, pennifer, you are not the milking factory. You're the heifer. The pump is the factory! Ha ha ha. Just kidding.

I think every woman who nursed or pumped at some point thought to herself, "Gee, I really am the Dairy Queen." There are all kinds of mental tricks you can try on yourself while pumping to, if not make you forget what you're doing, make it a little less arduous. I used to declare a "race" between lefty and righty to see who could produce more in 5 minutes (usually the right) and in the total 10-15 minutes (usually tied or a slight advantage to the left).
I would also usually put the horns on, get all set and then read blogs or the news. The Pump-In-Style milking machine has those little bottle stands and I could lean over, rest those on my lap and then pump hands-free.

[hedra]

pennifer, and likewise SarcastiCarrie, I cracked up on the milk machine comments... whenever I was pumping at home, my DH would just say 'moo'. Most days I found it funny, even! To the point that I stared saying it myself. Said it a lot while nursing twins. Moo. Mooooooooo. moo. That's me, the cow. Lactating is my job. As for 'teaching', when I realized that I'd been doing too much 'teaching' and yet had something important to impart, I had to turn the tables, and instead just try to let DH know that *I* had learned something that kind of put me in my place or elevated his position or validated his point. Letting him see the real wince that goes with learning made it not me teaching him, but him seeing me learning something, from which he could also take something. Offering to ensure that he had the chances he needed to make the most headway on his parenting without my interference was part of that. And trust me, my realization that he needed to be trusted and let to learn his own way was intensely painful to me. I was SOOOOoooo proud of knowing my child, of my instincts and ... well, he did something I was sure I could do better, but I watched and let him fumble onward, knowing K.N.O.W.I.N.G. that he'd learn in just a few moments that my way was right, ha ha! I'm the MOMMY! ... and then the world inverted, and his way not only worked, it worked better for our child, and it taught something I had no idea how to teach, and that I valued, and had side-benefits beyond that, and... well, having been taken down every peg I had, I suddenly realized the position I'd put him in, and really tried to not 'teach' so much as let him see me learn. We've worked things out in more detail since then, and can now more actively teach each other, but it's also totally understood that there's no ownership of the mastry, and nobody is the better parent. Could not do that at first, though. Good luck!

m, 22 months may be too young for much of it, especially anything involving blood, and anything involving mommy being so focused inward that she can't really make eye contact and focus on ME ME ME ME ME. Our midwives recommended that under 3's be more 'pop in and say hi' level (hi, mommy, she's busy, see? hi, baby!), at most. The moans and grunts and groaning may be particularly disturbing to them, at that age (a lot of empathy developing, without a lot of sophistication). Consider if you want him to be there for you, for the other child, or for his future, or for the mythology of family creation that you are developing (which is valuable, IMHO, but which can be spun in different ways to tell the tale of being there at the very beginning, being welcome to be there, being joyful in accepting the new family member, etc.). BTW, I was just about 3 when my little brother was born (at home). I was not permitted in for the actual birth (nor were the other older kids), but we were THERE, in the house, and that was still special. Granted, I blocked out the entire experience after the bedroom door was opened until he was about 3 months old... I was SO not ready for him to be a REAL baby. LOL! And yet, I wanted my oldest at the birth of his brother. No go (risked out to hospital from birth center). But he saw him when he was less than 12 hours old, which was still cool, remarkable for them, something he cherishes. Likewise with the twins, G was able to see them just an hour old. His brother B had bronchitis and wasn't allowed to come in, but while he's wistful that he didn't get to see them right off, it had a valid reason even in his mind, and it sure hasn't affected his bonding with them.

Granted, your son also might see the whole thing, want to see the whole thing, and never think anything particular about it - my little sister had a precipitous birth with her second child, and even in hospital there wasn't time to get her daughter out of the room (the dad didn't even make it INto the room in time) - heck they didn't get her out of between mom's legs, really! Her daughter thought it was all very silly, and why did those doctors put blood on mommy's bottom and the baby? That was just SILLY. And the sounds mommy kept making, very silly. Silly mommy! Seriously not traumatized, but also zero clue.

IMHO, 22 months is on the young side. This doesn't mean NO, it means that his caregiver must be paying more attention to his cues (even the quiet, overly-calm shutdown just from being disturbed/confused that some kids get) than what else is going on (which is incredibly difficult when there's a birth going on - REALLY REALLY HARD to not be drawn in by the birth, IMHO).

Julie, great epiphany. I've had similar ones. The really annoying part is when I have the same one a second time, and then realize that somehow over the course of the last however long, the ball was entirely dropped (by me), and dangit this is not the first time I've had this epiphany! ARGH. Try, try again. Sigh. Putting it into practice will take practice. Go gently on it so you don't feel like you're failing before you get very far.

Stacytronic, I think the books Moxie had listed as her 'now reading' at the time were something by the Marquis de Sade and a book called 'On Human Bondage'. Hint enough?