Q&A: four-year-old twins waking in the middle of the night

Cathy writes:

"we have 4yr old twin girls (they sleep in the same room)
within the past couple months one of them wakes up between 1:30am - 4:30 am just to "play" with her toys
she throws a temper tantrum every time we tell her to go back to sleep because it's not time to wake up yet
we have even told her that it's time to wake up when the sun comes up but that doesn't work
we're all tired and frustrated...HELP!!!"

Just awful. I don't have twins, but I have two kids who share a bedroom, and it just makes you want to yank your brain out through your ear when one of them wakes the other one up, especially on purpose.

I don't know if there's any way to stop your daughter (I read the question as it being one of the girls waking up consistently, not the two of them taking turns waking) from waking up, and am guessing that it's a phase she's going through. My suspicion is that if you stopped caring about it she'd get bored and go back to sleep, and after a few nights of this would stop waking up.

So that means the question is how you can stop her from waking her sister. If you could stop her from waking her sister, then it really wouldn't matter if she woke up to play with her toys, because the other three of your could stay asleep. (And if the other three of you stayed asleep she might give up and go to sleep herself from boredom.)

I think there has to be another room involved in this somehow. Either you could separate them for sleep, or make the waking sister go into another room silently to play with the toys. I wouldn't want to have to deal with switching the beds and sleep, so I'd choose to make a rule about going into another room to play. But that's obviously me, and you might want to go the other way. I think if you did make her go into another room (assuming you feel it's safe to do this--my older son could have been trusted not to get into any trouble in the middle of the night, but not all kids could be, and I predict his brother won't be at that age) you'd find her asleep on the floor in the morning.

If this is making your stomach turn because you just can't see separating them or letting her be alone in a room awake in the middle of the night, we're going to have to go back to the drawing board. As you all have figured out, I tend to look for the thing that seems the most direct, but there are often tricks that I'm just not seeing. So does anyone have any suggestions for Cathy? And if you can come up with a way to get a four-year-old to obey we'll all send you chocolate and beer.

Comments

[Tired Amy]

My 3-year old daughter shares a bedroom with her 6-year old brother. She has had bouts of being a middle-of-the-night waker. When she wakes up, it seems she's only partly awake, and she cries quite loudly. One things we have tried that worked is that we told her that if she wakes up, instead of crying, she should hug her Bear that she sleeps with super tight, and he will help her fall back to sleep better than we ever could. This worked for quite a while. I think she is very open to suggestions and also wants to be a big kid who can sleep all the way through the night.

Our latest invention is the Master Sleeper. I told her the Master Sleeper (MS) called me on the phone and said he had a magic potion to help her sleep. (Magic is always exciting.) That night, while she was getting her pjs on, I mixed up the magic potion: water, lemon juice for flavor, and a few drops of food coloring. I gave her 3 drops with a medicine dropper - because she is 3 years old - and told her that if her body felt like waking up before morning, which is 7:00 in our house, the potion would help her fall back to sleep. Guess what? Yep, it worked. We did this for 4 nights. On the 4th night, I was bored and said that since the potion was a different color tonight (new food coloring color) it meant the MS thought she didn't need the magic potion anymore.

So.... if your child is open to suggestions like this, maybe this will work. Good luck! Missing out on sleep sucks.

[Coco]

Lack of sleep makes me crazy. But it it's not clear to me that she's waking up her sister, at least until she throws a tantrum. If she's playing quietly or if her sister is a sound sleeper, then I'd just let her play in her room. I think the less you make out of it, the more likely she'll just get bored and go back to sleep. She may just be doing it for attention now, and she seems to be getting it.

My older daughter (6) has had times when she wakes in the middle of the night and comes to me. I lead her back to bed, turn on some soft classical music, and snuggle with her for the first song, and then leave her. She rarely, if ever, gets up a second time. My younger daughter (5) just entertains herself until she goes back to sleep. Sometimes she even turns on her light, but eventually she goes back to sleep. I much prefer this to getting me involved 8) But they don't share a room, so we don't have that added challenge.

At my 5-yr old's recent check-up, her pediatrician said "What do you do when you have a bad dream in the middle of the night?" My daugher said, "I go back to sleep. Sometimes it reminds me that I have to go to the bathroom, so I do, but then I go back to sleep." He said, "Do you ever go into Mom & Dad's room?" (WHAT?!) Her, "Mmmm, no." Him, "Well, Mom, if she does, try putting a sleeping bag on the floor next to your bed. That way, she feels safe, but she's not rewarded by getting into your bed." Argh! I was annoyed that he planted this alternative in their little minds, where we've had no issues before. Now, my 5-yr old says every night before she goes to bed, "If I wake up in the middle of the night, I will try 5 times to get myself back to sleep, and then I will call you." At least they haven't asked for the sleeping bag...yet.

So, I guess my first choice would be to let her play quietly in her room if she's not otherwise waking her sister. Maybe give her some acceptable quiet alternatives (read a book, do a puzzle, etc.). But if that doesn't work, you might try the soft music snuggles. (I've even set the music to play all night long at times, so that it helps soothe her back to sleep before she fully wakes.) Last choice for me would be to bring her into my room.

[Nutmeg]

Let me just say that I love the Magic Sleeper.

[Dawn]

When I was 4, I started waking up in the middle of the night and going and waking up my mom.

She determined that one of my toys must be waking me up at night.

Solution, each night I woke her up, we'd put a toy in a box at the top of the closet. Just to figure out which toy was naughty.

B/c clearly the toys were naughty... not me.

When I'd NOT wake her up, we'd take a toy back out.

It took a while, but eventually worked.

[paola]

Great advice for future reference

Can I ask a slightly none related question at this point?? At what age did your kids start sharing a room? From the word go or later. I need to get my 2 in together pretty soon, but the little one still wakes early and I don't want to start waking the other one.

Sorry to interrupt the flow.

[Linda]

My 3-year-old twins have shared a room their whole lives, minus about 6 months during the infant stage. I have one who requires MUCH less sleep than her sister. She'll often wake up and want to play. Our rule is that she's allowed to read in bed, but she must be VERY QUIET and not try to wake up her sister. They have dozens of books in the bedside table and we've found her reading at 3 am until she falls back asleep. Before we clearly spelled out the rules, though, we would wake up to hear her screaming, "WAKE UP! I WANT TO TALK TO YOU!" to her sister.

Anyway, if she's playing quietly, the room is safe, and she's not disturbing the sleeping girl, I say it's fine. I would ignore it. But I love to sleep and if I'M not being disturbed, I'm not very likely to care about what's going on!

[Uschka]

Hi, I'm a long time reader, first time commenter. Here are my two cents.

There seems to be two possibilities here, that she either wakes up in the middle of the night and doesn't know how to put herself back to sleep, or she wakes herself up in the middle of the night because she is excited about playing with the toys. Either way I think that instigating a stay-in-bed rule could be helpful.

What I would suggest is the joint purchasing of a very special big girl alarm clock. Set the alarm for 6.30 or what ever her normal wake up time is. Tell her she is allowed to get out of bed and play when the alarm goes off. If she can't stay in bed during the night time she won't need the very special and exciting alarm clock either. It can be taken away.

I used to do this waking up thing as a small child (shared a room with my sister who is 18 months younger as well) and the rule was it didn't matter if you're asleep at night time but you have to be in bed. I was given a small bedside lamp and allowed to read books.

Another trick who worked for me was I had a walkman with bedtime stories and soothing music on it. If I woke up in the night I could listen to my story through headphones.

Both of these activities were allowed when falling asleep as well as it has always taken me a long time to fall asleep in the evenings but my sister drops straight off. The whole system worked in reverse for my sister who would often wake at 5am. She wasn't allowed out of bed until the alarm went either.

Keep the books by the bed and the story tape consistant though, that way they lose their intrigue and become comforting instead of stimulating. If it's a particular toy she keeps getting out of bed for, maybe remove it from the bedroom or put it on a high shelf at bed time so it is inacessible for night.

I hope you find a solution!

[flea]

Another suggestion for the waker is to have a flashlight by the bed and allow her to read (leaf through) books in the night if she wakes up, but tell her the toys are sleeping.

I love the magic potion.

I too wonder how people make the transition to sharing a room. My 4 year old (FINALLY) sleeps through, but the baby (15 months) is up 2-4 times in the night the past 2 weeks, crying loudly. He sleeps in a separate room right now and tends not to wake his sister in the next room, but we also don't leave him to cry. I'd love to get them sharing, but when and how? Wait until he sleeps through reliably? It might be close to 3 years old! Also, if you put two down to sleep in the same room at the same time, how do you get them to be quiet and go to sleep instead of talking?

[z]

flea, i can remember so many nights awake with my sister talkin until what i thought was the wee hours of the moning where in reality it wasn't maybe more than an hour. Most time it was 20 minutes because inevitably one of us would stop responding... and we would both zonk out. So i guess what i am saying is that the talking thing may not be as big of a problem as you think... i do remember that on very exciting days when we were wired and could have stayed up very long my mom did the i am coming back in 10 minutes and checking on you and she did it a few times and we would dissolve into giggles while pretending to b asleep but forcing us to be in bed in our pj's got us to unwind a lot quicker.

I agree with the alarm clock and reading in bed solution. I read in one of the parenting magazines about a mom who created a clock for her kids room on a chalkboard and shaded the areas. So for instance if a kid woke up at a time when the hands were in the red shaded area they had to say in bed but if it was in a green area then they could get out of bed. I think her green shaded area started at 7:30am but i guess it would depend on your daughter's schedule. This is a lot like what Uschka suggested but with more of a visual effect if that's what your kid needs.

[Linda]

I do the alarm clock thing, too, and it works great. For us, it's more a don't-wake-me-up-at-6-am thing, not a go-back-to-bed-it's-the-freaking-middle-of-the-night thing. It's set for 7:30 on preschool mornings and 8 am every other day. The music is turned low enough that they can hear it if they're awake, but not so loud it would wake them. Of course, the daughter who is always awake is so excited to hear the music that she cries out, "THE MUSIC! I HEAR THE MUSIC!" and the other one wakes up, too. Sigh.

To address the "how do they fall asleep?" question, my answer is: eventually. Our rule is that they can talk, sing, and read, but they must be IN their beds unless they've got to pee. Sometimes they're up for an hour or more after bedtime, but we're fine with that as long as they're obeying the rule. I think the novelty of sharing a room has long since worn off as often they're asleep within 15 minutes or less.

I have no idea how to do it if you have kids of different ages. I can say that we still have night wakings ("I had an accident!" "I'm scared!" etc) and often the other kid doesn't even stir.

[Jill]

I wonder if just telling her that "morning is when the clock says... 7:00" or something would help. Mine, at 3 & 6 can read numbers enough to understand this. I simply put in a strong punishment if they wake someone up before that time but they can wake and read in bed whenever they want. After that chosen time they can go into the playroom and ***shut the door!*** (important).

My eldest is such a sound sleeper that I've had them sharing a room since middle of the night feedings ended. Little one still wakes, cries and talks in his sleep, sings himself to sleep, etc (always noisy) but eldest just ignores it all. If your eldest is a lighter sleeper you just have to give them time to get used to the noises. We hear our partners get up for the bathroom, toss and turn, etc. and we're used to their noises so they don't bother us (except maybe snoring!). I'd move kids together at the beginning of a vacation from schools when the sleep deprivation that might happen for a bit won't be so disruptive to your routines. It could take a few weeks for them to adjust. I'm finding that separating them is even harder. My little one won't go to sleep without his brother there and sleepover invitations are starting.

[caramama]

I read somewhere about keeping either all toys or noisy, active toys out of the bedroom all together. That way, the bedroom is for sleeping or possibly playing quietly, and there is less temptation to get out of bed and play if they wake in the middle of the night. This would help if you let them only read or play quietly in bed when they wake up.

[rudyinparis]

Eldest and Younger share a room and we love it. It is very sweet. They have shared a room since Younger was about 7 mos. and moved out of our bed.

Like most other posters, our rule/philosophy for Eldest is: we can't make you sleep, obviously, but we can have a rule that you must stay in bed and do quiet things, i.e., reading by flashlight, etc. Cathy, it is hard to tell if the issue you're facing is about the other child being woken, or if it's about desiring the wakeful one to be asleep. I think "path of least resistance" may be best--the wakeful one may be awake so long as she doesn't involve anyone else!

Flea, maybe just bite the bullet and move them in together. I remember gearing up for the transition and feeling really unprepared--what if this, or this, or this? And the logistics were hard for me to get my head around. But we just started and quickly found what works for us (Younger down first in her crib, storytime with Eldest in the living room and then a quiet tuck in and cuddle in their darkened room.) And, honestly, sometimes they do wake each other up and it's rock and roll time in there and it sounds like they're having a blast, the gales of laughter are wonderful to hear. We just let it slide, and figure it will be a nice memory that the two of them have to share when they're older.

[Me]

I've heard (though I don't know 1st hand - my guys are still very much toddlers) that with older kids, you put them back to bed with as little stimulation as possible. After the first time putting them back to bed, don't even talk to them or engage them, put them in their bed and leave. As many times as necessary. Supposedly, the first night is the worst, the second less so, and by the time a week has gone by they are supposed to have caught on. For better or worse, my sister gives her really awful sleeper melatonin (I'm pretty sure it's an herb? Not a drug per se.) and somehow that really works. I have no idea if that's appropriate to give a child or not, so you'd have to look into it yourself. Good luck!

[hedra]

You could use one of those sunrise/sunset clocks (pricey, but we LOVE them) for kids, for the alarm thing. The light comes on gradually, and then it beeps when it gets to the alarm time. Music might be nicer than beeping, though (we have terrible radio reception, sigh).

We have also removed nearly all toys from the bedroom that the older two share. Books and stuffed toys remain. A few other items tend to drift in, but they're not so far a problem. If they become problems, they'll just be reassigned back to their old homes.

We only recently put them both in the same room, as the younger one was an adamant cosleeper (very scared away from us, we figured he'd outgrow it, and he did).

I like the MS potion thing. And clever on the color change, too! I'd probably just ask the waking one to be quiet to not wake the other, possibly adding the stay in bed rule (though it might not be necessary), and ignore it otherwise as much as possible.

Good luck! Growth spurts tend to cause waking in my kids, as well as fussy stages (disequilibrium is said to continue on the half-years until the pre-teen cycle hits, but growth spurts can hit any time).

[Maureen]

Hi.. I have twin toddlers still in their cribs so I dread the time when we will really have to deal with this. They share a room and can be loud but at least they are contained in their own crib. It is amazing what they can sleep through... (they've shared a room since day one and actually will sleep fine through the crying most the time - it is us going in that will wake the one sleeping).

Anyway, my only suggestion is to take the toys out of the room if at all possible. If their room is also the playroom, put the toys in bins so that each night you can either lock them in the closet or move them to a separate room (maybe that could become part of the bedtime routine for the girls). I've read places that you can force your kids to be quiet and respectful of other family members but you can't make them sleep - so reading a book quietly until she's ready to sleep again could be a solution for all parties.

Good luck...

[paola]

Thanxs for your advice Jill and Rudyinparis. Will give Zoe until she is 12 months and move her in with her bro.

[Charisse]

Hmmm...haven't dealt with waking up to play, but had a big episode of bad dreams recently with my 3 1/2. (It was at the beginning of the school year when a whole bunch of kids she knew and liked went to kindergarten and a whole bunch of new ones came in, so we had some idea where it came from.) If we waited until she was fully awake, we were in for an hour or hour and a half of wakefulness, which totally sucked. And she was starting to resist bedtime because she was scared.

The thing that worked was to use the baby monitor again, turned up really high, and run in and pat her back the second we heard her stir. If we caught her before she was all the way awake, she'd go right back to sleep without even knowing what happened. It took a little over a week for her to start going back on her own. It was a drag to sleep on alert like that, but it helped. Not sure it would work the same way for a different wake-up reason, but thought I'd throw it in the mix.

Just to cover all the bases, I'd also try making sure she gets a ton of exercise and stimulation during the day, so she's tired enough to go back to sleep. (Mine needs a lot of both or else if something happens to wake her in the early morning it's really really hard for her to get back down.)

[Amy]

Flea,

My 7 and 5 yr olds share a room... getting everyone to sleep at night without playing or talking or keeping each other awake can be brutal (can't wait to put the baby in with them--that should be fun!). I have strict rules about what is acceptable... they can share one bed, but they must not play. If I hear even one voice, I immediately go upstairs to separate them (and I stick to this religiously, so they know the score). They are not allowed to get out of bed to play once I have turned out the light (if caught out of bed the closet light gets turned off). If they are in separate beds but still laughing and talking, I either turn the closet light off or close the bedroom door (which they hate). So, my point is, I have strict guidelines about the room sharing. Our third bedroom is downstairs by itself, and no one wants to be downstairs by themselves at this point, so they know they have to follow the rules or I start threatening to move someone. Good luck... while they LOVE sharing a room... I'd rather everyone had their own space. It would be much easier.

[Tzipp]

OMG. Dawn, your mother was a genius.

Just genius.

Naughty, naughty toys!! ;-}

[Liz]

I'd suggest coloring books, sticker books or puzzle books for her to work on quietly. Make sure she sticks to the rule of not waking anyone else up or she doesn't get to play/read AT ALL.

With MM we had designated "quiet time" instead of nap or bed time. Quiet time must be spent in bed quietly but sleeping's not necessary. Quiet toys, quiet music, and quiet books are allowed, but no talking or getting out of bed for anything other than the bathroom from x time to y time.

[O'Shea]

We only have one child, so we don't have the waking-the-sibling issue, but we did deal with the waking-to-play-with-toys-yipee!issue. So, as part of the bedtime ritual, we 'tucked in the toys' and covered them with a sheet. In the morning, we took the sheet off to 'wake them up' and playtime could commence.
Good luck :)

[Meg]

This sounds strange, but when I was really little all I needed to get back to sleep was a little change of scenery. My stepdaughter (3 yrs old) is the same way. We've all learned that when she wakes up, she can flip her pillow down to the other end of the bed, or can crawl into a sleeping bag on the floor, and just that little change helps her go back to sleep. Maybe a change like that would help?

[hedra]

Meg, you gave me a flashback. My mom used to do the same thing with me! Huh. My kids do it on their own, though - good thing we have the BIG bed for cosleeping. I never know quite where I'll find them if they wake up in the night (but they're putting themselves back down again without help, too, just rotated or moved).

[Katie]

I realize this post is from months ago, but I skimmed the comments and didn't see anything about melatonin. It's a supplement-type thing you can buy at most health food stores or online. Our bodies make melatonin naturally--it's basically the "sleep hormone"--but maybe Cathy's daughter's body isn't making enough. I have heard it is safe to give to most anyone. Just a thought!

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