Q&A: nighttime wetness

I'm hoping that today goes a little better than yesterday did. I had a bad moment with the teacher yesterday, but it turns out there's a student teacher in the classroom a few days a week and my son seems to like her a lot. Plus today is gym, so maybe he'll be excited about that. But who knows? I'll keep you updated.

In the meantime, let's take a question from Jo Ann:

"I have two daughters, ages 5.5 and 3. My older daughter was daytime potty trained at age 3 but has been wet at night through all this time. (Actually, we had a 3 month period in her 4s when she was dry most nights but that stopped for some reason - not coincidental with any big life change, btw.) Since she outgrew Pullups, we've had her in Good Nites pants almost every night. Younger daughter was just recently potty-trained (thanks to Camp Grandma) and is also still wet at night. I know it's time to bite the proverbial bullet and move my older girl into panties at night and just deal with a wet bed for as long as we have to. I really hate this idea because her bed is heavy and unwieldy to make and unmake, especially in the middle of the night, but I am told it is the only way. Actually, for starters, I'd be grateful for tips on that. Our ped insists that cutting back on liquids before bedtime is not likely to have an effect.

But really my question has to do with what to do with younger daughter. I'd like to start making the change for both of them but I'm concerned about the timing. Older daughter is very competitive; what if the younger daughter catches on and starts being dry at night first? I'm worried that the older one will be too discouraged and start beating up on herself because she didn't "win". Does that mean that I have to night-train the older daughter first and just accept younger daughter being wet for another few months? (Or however long it takes.) Or if I do choose to take on both at once, how do I sell the idea to Older?

Another reason I'd like to just take care of both of them at once is, since there's likely to be night-time commotion anyway, I'd rather they were both awake for a good reason. Younger is my poor sleeper, and since her bedroom is right next to Older's, she's going to be awake anyway. Since Husband will likely be hiding out in the guest bedroom during the weeks/months that this is going on, I am hoping for this process to take as little time as possible. Help!"

You know, I really try not to tell people what to do, and instead just lay out the choices so they can decide what's best for them. But holy crap I cannot imagine going through nighttime training for one kid and then turning around to do it with the other one right after that. It would probably push me over the edge into insanity. Also, I don't think it's reasonable or equitable for a father to hide out and shirk responsibility for nighttime parenting, and I would make sure if I was up everyone was up, if you know what I mean.

But then I just had a really bad day, so that may be making me a tad more vicious than usual.

Anyway. 5.5 is pretty much the border at which the vast majority of kids are able to be dry all night (some still have more-than-just-occasional issues up through age 7). So your daughter ought to be able to be successful at this relatively quickly. Plus, she's old enough now to be able to get up if she wets the bed, change her pajama bottoms herself, and put down a towel over the wet spot and just go back to sleep. (That's what happens here with occasional accidents, and I don't even know about it until the next morning.) I think the night training is probably going to be way more successful with Older than you think it is, whether or not it happens right away. And it could definitely happen in just a few nights for her.

I think the only thing you can say to sell the idea to Older is telling her Younger wants to do everything she does, so she's going to get dry at night like she is. There's not really much else you can say about it.

Of course, you could take the easy way out and send them both to Camp Grandma for night training, too. Think your mom or MIL would go for it?

(Oh, and I'm with your ped. I haven't heard anywhere that restricting liquids has any effect on nighttime wetness. AFAIK, the only person who thinks restricting liquids helps with nighttime peeing is Oprah, who doesn't drink anything after 7 pm because she doesn't like to have to get up to pee in the middle of the night.)

Anyone?  How can Jo Ann sell training both at the same time to her older daughter? Any tips for tandem night training?

Comments

[Jo-Ann]

So interesting I was going to write Moxie about nighttime training. I have no idea how to start with my 4 year old. I guess he is young to night train.

[victoria]

this is a hard issue to deal with, because there is not just a wet bed to change in the morning. My middle son (6.5) just outgrew bed wetting this month. I have NEVER made a big deal out of it, but when we tried to go good nite less, he was soaked every single morning. And he was upset, embarrassed and sometimes wouldn't tell me about the wet bed until I went to put him in bed at night. I figured his self esteem was way more important than a few more months in absorbant underwear. He finally came to me and told me he was ready to give them up, and we haven't had a wet bed in 3 weeks. Is your daughter a very sound sleeper?
Also, some children's bladders don't grow as quickly as the rest of them, and they are physically unable to hold their urine for the whole night. I, personally, would leave the whole issue alone, and let it self resolve.

[victoria]

this is a hard issue to deal with, because there is not just a wet bed to change in the morning. My middle son (6.5) just outgrew bed wetting this month. I have NEVER made a big deal out of it, but when we tried to go good nite less, he was soaked every single morning. And he was upset, embarrassed and sometimes wouldn't tell me about the wet bed until I went to put him in bed at night. I figured his self esteem was way more important than a few more months in absorbant underwear. He finally came to me and told me he was ready to give them up, and we haven't had a wet bed in 3 weeks. Is your daughter a very sound sleeper?
Also, some children's bladders don't grow as quickly as the rest of them, and they are physically unable to hold their urine for the whole night. I, personally, would leave the whole issue alone, and let it self resolve.

[Slim]

Actually, I had a preschooler who was a recreational water drinker at bedtime --if he couldn't sleep, he would look at books and knock back a sippy cup -- and taking away the sippy cup did enable him to stay dry all night. But we did let him have a drink if he was actually thirsty, and we gave him a choice of sippy + Pull-Up or underwear + no sippy.
My only suggestion is that until your child is staying dry all night, you limit bedclothes to mattress pad, bottom sheet, and a fleece blanket. It makes the laundry situation much easier.
Good luck.

[Thy]

My baby is not at this stage yet, but I myself did not manage to keep dry during the night until my mother helped me to the bathroom twice a night. I think I was about three and she figured that my bladder was just too small to keep it through the night. It was not enough with just once a night, but she had to wake me up both at eleven, before going to bed herself, and at 4, when she usually had to go herself too.

[me]

my hubby wet the bed until he was in his 9's - he's still really embarrassed about it, and won't talk about it with anyone. For him it was really emotional I think - his parents had a very turbulent relationship and fought constantly. After they divorced... no more bed wetting. But your situation sounds much different. Sadly, I don't have much to add except to say good luck!

If your younger is in a crib or toddler sized bed, The Ultimate Crib Sheets are great for quick sheet changes.

It would be o.k. to try and teach your older to try and celebrate the younger sister's achievements even if she herself isn't there yet. As one of 6 kids, I sort of grew up as an "age snob" where I thought anyone younger than me was somehow "beneath me" - it was just the neighborhood culture I grew up in. As a result, I felt I couldn't be friends with younger kids, date younger guys, etc. This went on for a long time. I want to teach my own kids differently, and to celebrate based on achievement, not on age.

[Katie]

I'm dealing with this now with my almost 5 year old. We have had maybe 4 nights in a row dry since she was day trained at 2.5years old. We have tried limiting drinks before bed, waking her go to the bathroom, bedwetting tablets and on and on. We are using GoodNights because of the reasons Victoria mentioned. (And he was upset, embarrassed and sometimes wouldn't tell me about the wet bed until I went to put him in bed at night.) There are times even with the GoodNights that the bed still gets wet. I have two sets of sheets on her bed in layers so I can take off the wet layer and the protecting pad and have a dry layer under (just as I have done with my 2.5 year old's crib). It makes it easier in the middle of the night. We have a family history of bed wetting so I'm willing to wait it out. We have convinced her that if she wakes to go to the bathroom and is dry she does not need our help but if she is wet she can wake us. We also had problems of her getting into bed with us when she woke each night. A reward system helped us make progress on those issues. We are also working on thumb sucking which I see as more of an issue.

[rudyinparis]

I read somewhere about the little trick of having a set of sheets on the bed, then a water-resistant sheet over, then another set of sheets. If your childs wets the bed, at least all you have to do right then is pull off the wet set and the rubber one.

With Eldest, now almost 4, we started by having her Dad (who goes to bed later than me, usually) wake her and bring her to the potty. We still have accidents occasionally--maybe 1 night a week. It helps that she's so dang cute when she comes to me in the middle of the night and says sleepily, "Momma, I had an acci-dent."

[giddy]

I agree with Victoria that it might be easiest to let it work itself out. Unless you think your daughter is just being lazy and waking up and peeing in her Good Nites. But if she sleeps right through and just wakes up wet, it is very likely a physiologic thing. We have bed-wetting in my family (I even have a cousin who wet the bed regularly at 11!! He recently completed his second tour in Iraq in some elite unit of the Marines, so it doesn't affect your later ability to be macho!) and to me that just suggests a combination of sound sleeping, small bladders, or both.

It might work to wake your child up and take them to the bathroom, but I personally could never bring myself to wake my kids up (it's bad enough to wake them up in the morning!) I would rather keep them in PullUps longer. (We are just now starting to day train the younger daughter.....trying to even remember how we did it with the older!)

One practical thing I like to do, though, at all ages, is to put several layers of sheets on the bed, with those rubber crib-sized pads in between, strategically placed under the child's midsection. Then when accidents do happen, you can peel off the top sheet and the crib pad, and there is another sheet there for the rest of the night. (Or minimize bed linens altogether, as someone else suggested!)

And Oprah? I wanted to make some comment about how limiting liquids doesnt' help if your urinary tract has been ravaged by pregnancy....but then I seem to recall she had a stillborn child or something when she was young? (Or something? so maybe her bladder has been ravaged....more power to her if she doesn't have to get up every night!!) (LUCKY!)

[hedra]

So far, the boys are delayed sensors, just like their dad and my brothers were. Genetics, whee. Or, is that wee? ;)

Which means that they notice pretty late in the process when they're awake (AAAH! GOTTA GO! NOW!), and night waking for bathroom trips is... well, pretty iffy.

However, the oldest is now out of Good Nights at ... I guess that was over the summer, so 9 3/4 years old. Yeah, seriously. He still needs them if he's been up late, or he's sick, because he sleeps more deeply, and then the late signal of urgency is too late to get him all the way awake. He usually wakes mid-pee, stops himself, runs to the bathroom, comes back and does the towel routine. The younger of the boys is almost 6, and is currently dry most nights, but seems also to be not quite as insensitive to the urgency as his brother. Definitely low on the scale, but not as far down. He's also been a recreational water drinker, and anyone who had an ultrasound in pregnancy knows that if you slam 24 oz of water in 30 minutes, you're gonna have to pee pretty soon, and a lot. RESTRICTING isn't necessarily helpful, but avoiding the water guzzling before bed may be.

When I was reasearching this (of course, it being me), I found that even with the late sensing issue, daily awareness of the pattern, and of the improvements in pattern, were key to eliminating (heh) the problem. Reward charts were one recommendation, but ... well, I'm not generally a fan of reward charts. We did it, anyway. It seemed to help a bit, but mainly in that we spotted the patterns. 1) the extended time between wet nights tended to grow in steady increments - that is, barring illness or exhaustion, G would add a few days to each cycle of dryness. So he could see in the chart that he was progressing, and we pointed out that our bodies work in cycles, and his was just extending the cycle of how long he stayed dry. He could watch it expand, and that gave him a sense that his body was working in the right direction, instead of failing him. and 2) we could see the direct one-to-one on exhaustion or illness on the calendar. Saturday morning after late Fridays were often wet. Days when he was sick were often wet. Okay, so, we just made a plan with him that if he was up late late late, and went to bed zombie tired, he'd wear a goodnight. And if he was sick, likewise. He's actually just gotten past that, too. He'll consider it, but then decline most of the time. Whether he wears one is up to him.

With the younger of the boys, he's still in goodnights every night, but he's been going about a week between wet nights lately. Again, the cycles expand. We tracked for him for a while, too, but saw that it was really the same deal - a cycle of expanding duration of dry time, one or more wet days, and more dry time; plus the exhausted or ill equals wet. Plus, for him, the recreational water drinking thing, serious one-to-one on that. He's stopped the water drinking on his own. We pointed out the link, and HE stopped. We just gave him the info.

So... IMHO, it is not worth fighting, but it is worth observing, gently and kindly, so they can start seeing the patterns and working with them.

Note: G had in the past MAJOR distrust issues with his body. Which for him generated immense self-worth issues. For him, it was eating. He knew how to eat well, what was good for him, etc., etc. But he could not. Literally could not force himself to eat well, healthy, properly. I had no idea how deeply and personally he took that until he was finally diagnosed with a feeding disorder that included reflux and sensory issues. I was able to tell him that he WAS listening to his body, and his body WAS telling him what to eat, and was doing a FABULOUS job of protecting him from pain and harm. It just wasn't also able to help him choose well for growth and development and health. His body could not do both, so the reaction was 'do not eat what causes immediate harm'. Once he grasped that he could TRUST his body to be doing well for him, that it was as smart as any body could be, the change was immediate. So immediate that it hurt like crazy to see it. He'd been ashamed of his body for preventing him from eating what he 'should', and ashamed of himself for being unable to force his body to comply with what he KNEW was best. Fortunately, we learned that lesson BEFORE the night-wetting thing, and he'd already accepted that sometimes, our bodies are doing exactly right, and we don't understand yet why or how that is right, and it might be just one part of right, the part that was immediately right and not long-term right, but it was still RIGHT. Might not be HELPFUL, but wasn't wrong or bad. From there, we could work with that and bring what we want (mind) in line with what what was going on (body), in a way that was coherent for both, and didn't set up the me-vs-myself thing that leads to shame/embarassment, etc. Understanding that his body functioned in a certain way to resolve what it could biologically, for its physiological wellbeing (that is, excess pressure on the bladder valve is BAD, it can can cause muscle and tissue damage, so rather than stay too full, the bladder MUST empty, even if you are not awake to do so the way you'd prefer), that really helped.

So, I'm voting with the middle, really - some night training may help, but do so advisedly and with an attempt to put their body and their will on the same team, rather than opposing teams.

As for the sibling rivalry/competition issue, one way to do that in something like this is to have them help each other succeed. You could allow the older sister to lead and coach the younger, or just stay back and cheer, or see if she wants to go first, try first, etc. Talk to her, and ask her what would solve HER problem, which is that she is uncomfortable feeling less competent or less successful than her sister. Oh, and I'd far rather deal with the sequential night training issue than with the sibling issue, so I'd just do them in whatever order works for everyone, and not fret about the rest. Besides, the issues for each might differ, and trying to keep in my head which issue went with which child, and reinforce in the way that was most suited to each, AT THE SAME TIME, would drive me mad. I have to do that with the girls (due to the twins/same developmental stage) all the time, and it is NOT my best skill. I'd rather handle them separately so I can keep their individual issues straight.

Good luck!

And Moxie, sorry you had a bad day. Nothing like a bad interaction with the teacher to really make things feel like they're spiraling down in flames... Sigh. Fingers crossed for ya. Hope today is better.

[lynn]

My biggest piece of advice for nighttime training is to use the following language:
"let's see if your body is ready to keep the pee in at night." Or if it's not working, "your body's not ready yet. When your body is ready, then it'll keep the pee in at night." I found that talking about their body as a separate thing helps them not to personalize it and get upset, and after all, when they're asleep, it's their body, not under their conscious control. (Compare to - your baby teeth will fall out when they're ready). To avoid comparisons, remind them that every body is different, every body grows differently.

For nighttime training, we used waterproof pads that we put over the wet spot, did a quick change to dry pajamas, a clean comforter if that got wet too, and back to sleep. My son was dry during the day at 3.25, dry at nap at 3.75, but not dry at night till about 4.5. For a while, we woke him up in the middle of the night to pee (my husband took him to the bathroom before he went to bed around 12 or 1), and that worked, but too much trouble. Once his body was ready, it worked. (But make sure they pee right before bed!)

[Steph]

I'd also vote for leaving it alone until she's ready / older. We had a pretty serious bedwetting issue at our house and we spent at least a year with the stupid sticker chart that only reinforced that the problem wasn't getting any better. What finally worked was getting a bedwetting alarm when he was about 7. He is a very sound sleeper and would miss his body's cues til it was too late (sometimes during the day as well). I'm not much one for endorsements, but I was really happy with bedwettingstore.com. They sent follow-up emails after we bought the alarm with further training tips and encouragement.

My experience was that bedwetting got worse when it was colder, so I'd wait to train til it's warm again!

[shirky]

bed lasagna, jo ann!
make the bed in layers with waterproof pad (like they sell for baby cribs) between. in the night strip off the top and go back to sleep.

[Mona]

I recently bit the bullet and did this with my 3.5 year old who had NEVER woken up dry but was expressing interest in wearing panties at night. Here's the interesting part - she basically night trained instantly. I think she was wetting the good nite diaper because she knew she had it on and didn't have to get up. We have had a few accidents but really minor incidents - so my point is that she might be ready and just using the diaper because it's there. I would give it a shot. We used waterproof mattress pad, sheet and then a special pad on top that could just be pulled off during the night if there was an accident. I think it's definitely worth a shot if she is successfully trained and is 5.5. Just because she is not dry at night now doesn't mean she's not ready to be. And I don't know how the dynamics are between your daughters so waiting with #2 might make sense to give your older one a head start. Good luck!

[hedra]

Oh, wanted to mention that we stopped doing the charting as soon as we saw the patterns - the kids weren't big into the charts, either, but they were one way of getting the facts lined up about what was actually happening. It was rather more like charting ovulatory cycles than like a sticker chart, really. Probably a lot less useful if they're peeing EVERY night, because then all you see is the negatives. We didn't start them until there were a good many dry nights, because it didn't seem at all relevant until then - if they weren't physically ready, they weren't. (Our ped told us that waking dry was a typical PRECURSOR to potty training, and if they weren't waking dry most of the time by 2 or 3, then there was a separate issue. Oh, and further note, a friend of ours whose daughter was night wetting all the time at about 8 years old still, was diagnosed with 'occult spina bifida' or a hairline open seam in one of her neck vertebra, which is linked to night wetting. She actually ended up taking her daughter to a chiropractor, and a few weeks into care, the night wetting stopped. So for her, it was a totally separate kind of physiological issue. There are many possible causes, IMHO, tracking down the right system/solution may just take some trial and error.)

[Charisse]

Mouse refused night diapers about 2 months after being day trained (to the point where dealing with the wet bed hassle was better than the hour of bedtime shrieking). We talked her down and told her she could go commando at night if she was dry for a week. She did that, and once she did there was no taking her back to pull-ups...but there were lots of rough nights.

I think she just grew out of it--I observed cycles a lot like Hedra--there would always be a couple weeks dry and then the difference would be how often she'd wet during the rough weeks. At first it was every night, and at first we'd just find it in the morning. Then it was most nights, but she'd wake and freak all the way out when it happened. Then it would be 2 or 3 times in a rough week. Now at not quite 3 1/2 (cross fingers!!) I don't know what the pattern is, but it's less than once a week, even if she wakes with a bad dream, which is really often lately. The other cycle I noticed is that it would happen later and later in the night--it was 1:30 at first, then 3, then 4, and now if it happens it will be 5:30 or something. So there's definitely a body process moving along.

You might try putting your daughter in panties or commando for a few days and see if you can figure out when it happens--if it's early in the night you're going to have to work on actually getting up to go to the bathroom. And I have no advice on that as I haven't been able to get Mouse to do it yet, but I'm sure somebody else does.

One little logistical tip: I like to use a thick fleece blanket over the sheets to contain the mess. It's really soft and warms quickly so it's easy to go back to sleep on.

Good luck!

[Charisse]

Mouse refused night diapers about 2 months after being day trained (to the point where dealing with the wet bed hassle was better than the hour of bedtime shrieking). We talked her down and told her she could go commando at night if she was dry for a week. She did that, and once she did there was no taking her back to pull-ups...but there were lots of rough nights.

I think she just grew out of it--I observed cycles a lot like Hedra--there would always be a couple weeks dry and then the difference would be how often she'd wet during the rough weeks. At first it was every night, and at first we'd just find it in the morning. Then it was most nights, but she'd wake and freak all the way out when it happened. Then it would be 2 or 3 times in a rough week. Now at not quite 3 1/2 (cross fingers!!) I don't know what the pattern is, but it's less than once a week, even if she wakes with a bad dream, which is really often lately. The other cycle I noticed is that it would happen later and later in the night--it was 1:30 at first, then 3, then 4, and now if it happens it will be 5:30 or something. So there's definitely a body process moving along.

You might try putting your daughter in panties or commando for a few days and see if you can figure out when it happens--if it's early in the night you're going to have to work on actually getting up to go to the bathroom. And I have no advice on that as I haven't been able to get Mouse to do it yet, but I'm sure somebody else does.

One little logistical tip: I like to use a thick fleece blanket over the sheets to contain the mess. It's really soft and warms quickly so it's easy to go back to sleep on.

Good luck!

[Kristin]

This is really helpful info!! My daughter is 3 and wears a diaper to bed and it leaks all the time. Makes us crazy. I will be trying the bed lasagna plan tonight. Maybe bigger diapers too.

[Jo Ann]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. I thought I'd give a progress report since I've now been working with night-training Older for 2 weeks after we ran out of Good Nites. We do use several layers of bedding and it is supposed to be her "job" to strip and remake her own bed in addition to changing her clothes. (Half the time she asks me for help, though, so so much for me sleeping through it.) Most days she wakes up wet if left on her own but more often than not she is dry if we wake her for a potty break when we go to bed. Older is one of those very deep sleepers.

We are using a reward chart in the morning, keeping track of all the positive steps she takes including stripping the bed and going potty at night, not solely keeping track of dry mornings. The promise of an ice-cream party after seven dry nights is the only thing keeping her motivated, but she is starting to despair that she'll ever reach that point. Her "record" so far is 3 dry in a row, and those were assisted.

As for Younger, I decided to delay the issue for a few months. I'll probably take it up with her in conjunction with buying her a "big girl bed".

[Molly]

My 7 year old still needs 'Good Nights'. And she shows no sign of being ready or interested in panties at night. My take on it has been to let her be. Why rush her? Kids are rushed into so many developmental milestones, especially when school and day care expectations come in to the picture.

I notice that my daughter is happiest when she can go at her own pace. And I'm confident that she'll be done with the 'Good Nights' before college. So will your 5 year old.

[rudyinparis]

Hi Jo Ann,

Good update! I think 3 dry in a row is good, assisted or not. Maybe you could do a "surprise" treat if she makes it to, say, 5 nights, or 5 times of stripping the bed herself? It sounds like it may get a little discouraging, trying to reach the 7 night goal. A treat thrown in there unexpectedly might be helpful in keeping her on track.

I think delaying with Younger makes sense, especially as you can use the "big girl bed" angle to your advantage.

Good luck!

[Kate]

My dad got me out of bed and took me to the bathroom to pee before he went to bed every night for years (I think it was years anyway, I know I was a bed wetter for a long, long time...) I don't think I really fully woke up when he did this, although I do remember how bright the light in the bathroom in our old house seemed to me in my sleepy state. Such a nice memory of being cared for by my dad, in the same category as the memories I have of pretending to be sound asleep after a long car ride so he would carry me into the house. No advice, I guess. I still can't make it through most nights without getting up to pee, but I did eventually learn to get up by myself.

[hedra]

Great update, indeed. I think a 'progress surprise' sounds like a great idea. At any point where she's despairing BUT you're already proud of her accomplishment, it is prime time to just up and do something nice for her because YOU want her to know that you're aware how hard she's working and that she IS progressing, even if not as fast as she'd like.

[Jen]

Poor kid... it's so discouraging.

I wet my bed reguarly until I was about 7. A sounder sleeper there never was.

In fact, right after my daughter started sleeping through the night, I had two nights where I wet the bed again.

As an adult.

I was PASSED out.

You sound like you're doing a great job encouraging her! She'll get it. :)

[victoria]

I'd definately do a surprise treat, because it can become a self esteem issue if she just can't make it to 7 dry nights. I also think that making her change the sheets in the night is like a punishment. She is only 5.5 and that is a big job for her. maybe see if she can just sleep a different way after she changes her pjs. My son just ussed to flip his pillow around to the other side of the bed and sleep that way, or if it was too bad, he would pull his comforter onto the floor and sleep in that like a sleeping bag. Because, whilst I wasn't mad at him for wetting the bed (he couldn't help it) I wasn't getting up in the night to change the sheets. Good luck!

[Caroline]

I noticed this over-the-sheets pad in One step ahead yesterday:

http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/product.jsp?productId=6773&cmSource=Search

(If the link doesn't work, do a search for "waterproof". You'll find this, plus one of the more ridiculous anal retentive parenting products I've ever seen.)

Moxie's sheets and pads "Napoleon" was one of the first posts I ever read, and it's such a great idea.

And one more random thing from me. Kate, your dad memories are so sweet. Got me a wee bit misty. I think I can also remember every time it was my dad, rather than mom, who took care of me when I was sick or hurt. And every time we went shopping, just the two of us, for that matter. Which are wonderful, tender memories, but a bit crappy that all the wonderful, tender, every day care from Mom is so much less significant in my mind.

[pnuts mama]

oh, you all are just too quick for me. just wanted to lend my support for the night training, and was going to suggest the lasagna technique. two other options for pads are those waterproof multi-use pads from BRU, etc or the square chucks they use in the hospitals, if you happen to know anyone who works in a hospital. good luck and thanks for the update!

[Marie]

We got VERY lucky with our oldest, who basically day and night trained at the same time. I'm glad to read all the comments here, because I doubt we'll get so lucky with our second child!

We use red light bulbs in our night lights to prevent night time bathroom trips from waking us all too much (Our 4 year old still wakes every few nights needing to go in the middle of the night.) Red light does not mess up your night vision, and it interferes less with your circadian rhythms than white light.

I remember reading a comment in the Ames & Ilg book on 3 year olds that mentioned waking your child to take him/her to the bathroom. It was very off-hand & casual, and sounded to me like it was common practice to wake one's child for a potty trip. Maybe that would help your child (especially if she mostly slept through it)? Good luck!

[abby]

one thing to consider also is getting your hands on some Chux (not sure if anyone else mentioned them) hospitals use them under patients to help keep them clean during surgery and birth. They are plastic on one side and absorbant cottony on the other (sort of like a maxi pad but in the form of a sheet or blanket) you can get them at medical supply places, or at a pet store (sold to help with house training dogs). Have your daughter sleep on the Chux, they will keep her sheets and bed dry, and you just throw it out if it gets wet.

[Julie]

I have nothing new to contribute different from above except to repeat the going-at-their-own-pace lesson I seem to be learning again and again and again.....and again.....with the transition from formula to milk, from bottle to sippy cup, from 3 foods to a more "diverse" menu......at some point you would think I would remember this lesson BEFORE I tear half my hair out. Hm.

We haven't even started potty training, though A is really into the idea of it. He's almost 2 and is constantly talking about the potty. We let him sit on his little one, though I half suspect it's just an excuse for him to run around the house naked. I'm dreading it. Diapers are sooooo much easier. I am NOT looking forward to that "Do you have to go potty before we leave?" dance. Ugh ugh ugh. Lots of sympathy from me. And I think he'll be wearing pullups to bed until middle school.

[marion]

Soooo, this is the obligatory stupid question from a childless sort, but...what about setting an alarm to wake a child up so that he/she can go to the bathroom before the bedwetting stage of the night is reached? Obviously this wouldn't work with children who have a very difficult time going back to sleep after being woken up, and you'd have to experiment to see exactly what part of the night would work, but my mother woke me up to go pee in the middle of the night for a few years, and I'm not sure if my body really finally learned to equate needing to pee with waking up, or if being woken up at a certain time of the night just trained my brain to associate that with peeing, if that makes sense.

I make this suggestion in part because I suspect that Moxie will have a well-researched reason for why it's a terrible idea. :) Hey, I like to learn!

[pnuts mama]

julie- exactly what you said. both paragraphs. and, i'm in no rush to start the potty-training madness either!

this reminds me of the question from last week on how to potty-train, (which is about as opposite from my MIL's train-in-a-day method as you can get) : my ped recommended we read a book while we (each) sit on the potty 2x a day just to start getting used to the idea, used to sitting for a while, and working our way from there, if she pees she pees, if not, whatever. i like it, it seems nice and slow and just my style. i always thought til they woke up pretty dry don't even think about training! see what i am learning? day-training, night-training, please god let this be the one easy thing for us!

[Joy]

I've been through this (myself and with my children), tried everything mentioned, and cast one big fat vote for leaving on the GoodNites pants and letting them grow out of it... they will eventually, really. Would have saved me many wet, sheetless, sleepless nights. The more I stressed about it, the more stressed my kids got. My 2 cents, for what it's worth.

[O]

Thanks to everyone suggesting keeping the Good Nites until they start waking up dry. My almost 4 year old just trained last month when *I* couldn't stand his diaper rashes anymore. (He had gotten to the point where he wouldn't go on the potty but wouldn't let me change diapers either...he truly just didn't believe that otherwise intelligent people actually stopped what they were doing to go to the bathroom when there was another solution!) We started with my watch beeper going off every 45 minutes, then hour, then 2 hours...then one day I forgot my watch and realized he held it for 5 hours before I remembered. At which point I stopped worrying about it. But his control was SO good, he stopped going after dinner, knowing the PullUp was coming, and would save it for the diaper. We just ran out of PullUps (we counted them down, giving plenty of warning) and last night was the first night without...he made it to about 4am before he wet himself. So I'll try another day or so and see how it goes, and if it doesn't work, maybe I'll just "find" another packet somewhere!
Thanks again for all the great suggestions--I'm totally doing the chux lasagne tonight.

[SG]

When my oldest son was still wetting the bed at night at the age of 6 1/2 (it really bothered him) our family practitioner had us get a bed wetting alarm. It attaches to the underwear and goes off as the child starts to wet the bed. It helped my son to learn to associate the need to urinate with awakening. I bought it at a pharmacy/medical supply store. He was trained in about three weeks. He had a few relapses, but using the alarm would have him back on track in just a couple of nights.
We recently used it again to train his 5 year old brother and it worked wonderfully. One thing I found very helpful using the alarm to train my younger son was that the first time I used it with him (a year ago) I quickly found out how that he was not physically ready because he was going 4+ times a night.

[Her Grace]

I wish I had time to go through all the comments to make sure I'm not being redundant!

We had to do the "bite the bullet" thing too. My advice would be to first find out why she isn't staying dry. In my daughter's case, it was because she was "too cozy" to get up in the night, which told me she was waking up partially, but not enough to make the choice to get out of bed.

What we did was make sure she went right before she went to bed. Then when I turned in (about 11 PM), I woke her up and put on on the toilet again. After a few accidents, this kept her dry for a month or so. Then one night, I just forgot. She stayed dry, so we went from there. I don't know if that transition helped or not, or if she was just finally ready.

I'm with Moxie in that training them both at the same time will save your sanity!

Good luck.

[Jamie]

My oldest never had bedtime wetting issues, but my now 5 1/2 year old is still wetting the bed. He doesn't want to wear Pullups so he knows that I am going to make him go pee up until he falls asleep. This has been working for us, even with drinks of water at bedtime he is not wetting as often. Usually we just do the towel over the wet spot until morning too and luckily I have lots of extra sheets and blankets.

[Clare]

Hi Moxie and readers,

My name is Clare and I work on behalf of GoodNites at Edelman Public Relations. I was reading Moxie’s post and I wanted to offer some resources for those of you whose child is struggling with nighttime wetness. If you would like to speak one-one-one with a bedwetting expert or would like more information on a new bedwetting product, feel free to email me at: [email protected]

[mel]

My older son is 5 and is still peeing at night. I don't really have any recommendations other than the obvious ones already stated here. None of them, -have not tried the alarm- have worked. I just wanted to save people money by sharing my diaper. I used cloth diapers with my eldest, and still do. Now that he is older and thin he fits into the largest diaper/wrap combo, and i use an absorbent pad with it too. It is no trouble at all to toss them into the pail and wash them every few days, or once a week (i am doing laundry constantly anyway because i also have a 21 month old boy). No poop, and very cheap. good luck with the diapering and the kindergarten, we both need it. My son is the youngest in the class and has had a terrible week adjusting. His teacher is nice but of the older, rigid "he got a marker stain on one of my logics cards today " variety....and he is struggling. I hope things work out.