Q&A: allowance and chores

Jessica writes:

"I was wondering, what is your philosophy on allowances and household chores?  I have a four and half year old daughter and while she is generally helpful around the house when we ask her to do something, I feel she could be responsible for specific chores on a more regularly scheduled basis.  Both small things like making sure the cat has dry food and water each morning and helping to set the table and also larger tasks like making sure her room and the basement playroom are orderly before she goes to sleep at night.  She likes rules and order very much (one of her nicknames before she was able to spell was Baby OCD) and is pretty goal-oreinted for a preschooler, so naturally I thought about getting her a chore chart for the refrigerator and rewarding her with an allowance.  My husband and I both earned our allowances as children and there is a part of me that really believes this would be a good way to begin teaching her about responsibility, saving and working towards your goals. 

However, I went to a parenting lecture a long time ago and allowance question was asked by another parent with an older child.  As I recall, the lecturer advised not to give an allowance as a pay-off for performing chores.  Instead she said to teach that chores are what your parents ask of you as part of participating in family life.  The lecturer advised that parents don't get paid for mowing the lawn or ironing and children shouldn't be paid for performing basic household tasks either.  Instead, the lecturer suggested that you just use an allowance as a means of teaching saving and give each child a set amount weekly or monthly and increase it annually on the child's birthday.  I am pretty sure she suggested giving your child one dollar a month per year of age.

Clearly this advice resonated with me a bit, because I remember it well almost three years later.  I think it stuck with me because I do agree with the "chores should be done as part of family life" argument.  I am sure a compromise could be that we only pay for extraordinary chores, but it's not like I can easily say to a four year-old that putting out napkins is your family responsibility, but if you want to earn an extra buck this week feel free to scrub the toilets.  Also, I am not sure my four year old needs four dollars a month for no reason other than to teach her about savings.  Is she too young for an allowance at all?  She certainly understands that things she has and want cost money.  Also she knows that her father and I financially support her and work hard for our money.  She has basic addition and subtraction abilities and a vague idea of monetary values (a sense that a quarter is worth more than a penny but less than a dollar) but her understanding of money could be much better.  Her grandparents give her change and a few dollars every now and again and she saves them in a wallet.  Her father and I also put our spare change nightly in banks she and her brother have in their rooms, and she knows that when they get full we deposit the coins in their savings accounts at the big bank.  I have occasionally made her pay for things that she wants that I deem ridiculous with her wallet money, but since I take all monetary gifts over $5 and deposit them in her savings account (she knows we do this) she doesn't actually have that much in her wallet and I am much more likely to refuse pleas for new stuff on "you don't need that/we can't afford things you don't need" grounds.  When she took a friend's birthday present out of the gift closet and started playing with it before it I could wrap and deliver it I took what was in her wallet to "pay" for a replacement present and she was devastated. But that was probably more about the stealing/disappointed lecture she got and my unwillingness to let her keep the stolen gift than the loss of the money.  I think she would embrace the idea of saving up to get higher priced items that I deem unnecessary, but then again she needs nothing else and I am with you on the no new toys sentiment you expressed recently. 

So to sum up what is becoming an extremely long email, I am very torn about an allowance and a job chart and confused about the age to start an allowance.  For the record, my husband thinks I am over-analyzing the situation and that we should do the chart already and either pay her an allowance, or if I can't get over my anxiety, reward her with a fun family outing since that worked well for us when potty-training. What do you and your wise commenters think?"

I love it when people email me with questions and then lay out the issue so completely that I'm pretty much useless. (Rereading that it sounds sarcastic, but I'm actually completely serious.)

It sounds like you and your husband have a pretty good grasp of teaching your kids about money already. I think that at least some of what you want to do will become more clear to you if I point out that you're connecting chores and allowance right now, when it seems pretty clear that you agree with the lecturer you saw years ago who said that chores are just something you do as part of being a member of a family. (I agree with that, too, BTW.)

So it looks like that's pretty much a done deal for you, that she's going to have a set of things that she's responsible for. The question then becomes how to deal with the allowance issue. And if you decide against an allowance, how does she make money, or does she have to ask for anything she wants from you?

There are plenty of families that just give an allowance every week. That's one option. Another option is giving her the chance to earn money by doing extra, more difficult chores.

I don't really know what the long-term outcomes are of those two ways of going about it. We talk about giving an allowance around here all the time. Every 4-5 months or so my older son brings it up, we agree on a figure, then he tells us he doesn't want it yet. So it's never gotten off the ground.

Anyone with older kids, or even kids this same age, want to talk about what you do about allowances and/or earning money for your kids? I'm betting there are tons of us who just haven't really enacted any kind of system because we don't know exactly what to do.

Comments

[Kate]

My son started getting allowance in 1st grade. I based it on his behavior at school. At Christmas, his teacher told me that my son was a chatterbox. Any kid in class who interrupted, or spoke during teacher time got their name on the board, and had to miss a minute of recess. My son and I talked about it, and we agreed that for every day he did not get his name on the board, he would earn a quarter. Later (because he was having a hard time), I told him that if he could go 5 days in a row, I would give him a bonus of $5. It took from Christmas break, to literally the end of the school year for him to earn that $5. I always just looked at it as similar to bribing kids to use the potty.

[Kate]

Oh, and I'm meeting with the second grade teacher soon, to find something similar to do this year.

[Suzie Q]

As we are just expecting our first little one, my husband and I haven't needed to broach the chore/allowance subject yet. But just wanted to give a shout out to a great discussion about involving kids in jobs around the house from a little while back at parenthacks.com -- http://www.parenthacks.com/2007/08/kid-friendly-ki.html -- they often reference Moxie, so I figured it was OK to link back! Be sure to follow their link to the "Teach Your Kids to Work" article. Lots of food for thought re: kids as contributing members of the family like everyone else -- and having them like it!

Having a hard time putting my thoughts about the allowance side of the equation into words (I'm sort of still at the pre-verbal stage of my morning!), but I'll try to make another attempt later. Definitely have some thoughts, but... I'm sure everyone else around here will give you more than enough to chew on!

[Treena]

I've also heard that kids should do chores as part of a family and get an allowance to teach money management, and I agree with that. My kids are still too young, but we'll probably start an allowance around age 5. One thing I've heard is that you can have kids break their allowance into 3 parts -- charity, long-term savings (in the bank), short term savings (available for use). That seems to make sense to me, and would be good if you gave $4 each week or something and had $1 to charity, $2 to the bank, $1 to short-term savings. The $1 could be used for things like stickers, an ice cream when you wouldn't have gotten one otherwise, or saved for a larger item. I'm with you on trying to avoid new stuff coming into the house, but also think kids should understand about saving money for an item. I'm guessing they'll value it a lot more that way.

One issue I know we'll run into eventually is that our kids regularly get checks from great-grandparents from their birthdays, anywhere from $20-$100. I've always been instructed to use this money to buy gifts for them, and have let them choose a small present (about $3) for each check and then deposited the rest in the bank. I think we'll probably settle on a similar system, where they can have $5-10 from each check to spend and then the rest goes in the bank. I wouldn't want them to favor one set of great-grandparents over the other because they're able to give more money.

[Lily]

It isn't quite allowance, but a good friend of mine wanted to teach his then-10-year-old about the financial markets, so he gave him $100 and the Wall Street Journal (this can be done with a smaller sum) and told im to pick some stocks.

Using Yahoo's "fantasty porfolio" function, the kid tracked his stocks and made trades. Of course, you can't actually invest in sums that small without incurring huge fees, so Dad just acted as the bank (very little money had to change hands as the kid kept "reinvesting")

I thought this was a very cool way of introducing the more complex finance topics to a fairly young kid.

[giddy]

I also agree that chores are part of participating in family life, and that allowance should be kept separate. However, we do occasionally link them in the following way: If the child has been asked to do something repeatedly and still hasn't done it, we might do the chore for the child and then come allowance time, we "dock" 25 cents for when the parent had to set the table for the child, or whatever. This should only be done if it's one of those situations where you as the parent are just too impatient to wait for the child to do it, or it would be impractical (eg, child is already at soccer practice but forgot to feed the pet first; you don't want to penalize the pet so YOU feed the pet). We VERY occasionally will say, "well, you don't HAVE to do [the job], but if I do it, I will take a quarter from your allowance as payment for doing YOUR job." My daughter is 7 (2nd grade) and gets $2/week. Even though a quarter isn't very much, she would usually rather do the job than give up a quarter.

Chore charts are great, but recognize that everyone's enthusiasm will wane after a time, and that's okay. I like to use them to instill habits. Once they are habits, then the chart can go away. We usually go with, if you do a great job until we reach the end of the chart (usually about a month), then we will go and you can select ANY book from the book fair/book store. (And then I let her get a Bratz or Barbie book that normally I would not spend money on...I'm so glad she's moving into Magic Treehouse and away from "glamour" dreck!!) And by "great job," we don't necessarily mean that there has to be a sticker/check makr in every single block. Only that serious efforts were made, and now we are in a good groove, and isn't it great that we all help each other as a family? (And on and on.....)

[Slim]

I'm another who believes in the separation of chores and allowance -- to emphasize this, the first regular, daily chore to benefit the whole family (as opposed to the constant task of putting away your toys when you're done with them) is setting the table, and that starts at 4.
Allowance starts when they start kindergarten. I heard you were supposed to give them enough that they could buy something small with one week's allowance, so we did $3 a week, enough for an ice cream around here. Wait two weeks and you can buy a paperback. Wait several weeks and you can buy the latest Magic Treehouse.
Allowance goes up $1/grade, at least so far. I suspect that at some point it will have to go up more so they can still buy something with a week's allowance, but we aren't there yet.
So far no one's old enough to do any significant extra chores to earn extra money. Pity. We've got lots of things that need doing, but no one old enough to do them.
We don't do the divide-up-the-money thing. Forcing charitable donations just feels so Mrs. Jellyby to me. Giving it only to take it away again --taxes!-- doesn't really help them understand how to handle money any better, because at the end of the day they still are spending what they had. That something passed through their hands briefly isn't helpful in that exercise.
I don't want my kids to think they can buy their way out of responsibility, which is why we separate chores and allowance. I want them to understand that being more responsible will get them more privileges, not more cash.
My parents separated chores from allowance, and my siblings and I are all very thrifty.

[Jean]

M is about the same age as the poster's dd. What we do for her is that she has some chores that she is just expected to do--pick up her toys, put away her clothes, clear her place after meals, etc. Then she has extra chores that can earn her "money"--helping empty the dishwasher (the non-breakable stuff), help fold laundry (sorting socks, folding simple things), picking up her toddler brother's toys. The "money" she gets are credits toward her school book orders. The more credits she has, the more books she can order. That way she's working toward a goal, getting things we have some approval over, but she decides whether to do the work to earn or not. I keep tally marks on a wipe-off board in the kitchen.

[shirky]

I don't know what a four year old would need cash for. They don't drink, they don't smoke, they don't take cabs. saving bonds maybe.

[Jan]

I'm including a link to a discussion on a finance site written by a woman who, I think, has done a fantastic job with this issue with her kids. They are older, but she started them out at three buying stock!

http://boards.fool.com/Message.asp?mid=22110807&sort=whole

I feel pretty strongly that being part of a family and household means you do chores. I'm also against paying for grades, though I can't even put my finger on why.

I think the very most important thing is to talk to your kids about money and for the adults in the house to be modelling good habits. If you children never see you delay gratification by saving up for something and they always see you whip out the 20% interest credit cards to buy, that's what they're going to learn. A lot of people are uncomfortable discussing finances with their children, but I think it's a vital part of their education.

[hedra]

Okay, I'm going to actually try to edit for length, today.

1) We do as the Jessica's lecturer said (did we go to the same one?), and separate chores from allowance.

2) We also sometimes do as Giddy does, and ask them to pay us from their allowance if we have to do something they've already agreed to do. (just like we'd pay the lawn guy to mow if we don't get around to or really don't like mowing)

3) Investing 'training/illustration' works. We limit the investing to once-a-year access (on birthday). They like the idea that money will 'grow' if you leave it alone, provided you put it in the right place.

4) We run allowance like a company. 'Investing' equates to 401(k) - matching, growth (w/flat BIG interest rate to get the idea across), borrowing only for life-changing items, but once-a-year access otherwise. 'Charity' we match to a certain dollar value. 'Savings' gets a low interest rate and moderate access ('vacation/special-event spending' or 'saved toward specific item' mainly). Mirrors reality, but magnified so they can see the impact.

5) We start the allowance at 5 years, and investing/savings/charity separation at 7 (based solely on the interest level of the children, so far - age can certainly vary!). Right now, the 5 year old gets $1.50/wk, the 9 y.o. gets $3/wk.

6) How much goes into which box is ENTIRELY their call. No forced savings/charity, etc. Bigger (sometimes uncomfortable) lessons that way, and they remember. No resentment of someone else making the mistake for you. FULL control - it is their money the moment we give it to them. We only provide the opportunity.

7) This is only a small part of 'Charity'. Charity work is 'run' by my mom. She helps them find what they want to donate to (based on their interests), and then helps with the process of earning or saving money to donate (their call, again), and then doing the donations, IN PERSON if possible, plus hands-on activity with the charities. Right now, they're earning toward their annual public radio membership. Knowing they earned their own membership is a source of great pride for them.

8) Chores is a separate issue, as well. Equating chores to spending money/allowance to me feels somewhat like the money/work issues that come up in two-parent/one-earner families. I prefer a 'one money pot from all earners, and everyone pitches in to help everyone else' system, with balance determined on an ongoing basis. We're using the Parent Effectiveness Training 'methods' (see the book, mainly collaborative problem solving) to support the chores idea, and it is slow, but it seems to be rooting in much deeper than previous efforts have. To the degree that they're becoming self-aware about their motivations to help (and their resistance to being ordered to help). At least, as of this morning, G (almost 10 years old) said to me, 'Mom, when you order me to do something, I stop wanting to do it. Just like B, when you order HIM.' Um, yeah, funny that. I don't like being ordered around, either. Feels disrespectful, and I end up resisting. And yes, despite inventing it, I *still* have trouble with the Safe-Respectful-Kind rules at times, myself. Sigh. So I left G alone, and he did what I needed him to do, once I stopped pestering him.

9) Chores don't have to be unpleasant. We let them pick what ones they want to do. Provided it takes some load off someone else, helps someone else, improves life for someone (or all) in the family, we're happy.

10) Taking the long view seems to help. I'd love my kids to just snap into place and be adult-ish right now. But they're not, and it seems to work much better when I assume that all these things are life lessons that will be learned in cycles of increasing complexity and subtlety over and over and over. And I'm less desperate to hammer them in NOW if I feel like there WILL be another season in which to catch the moment, another 'perfect time', probably many. The longer view, so far, seems to set them up better for success.

And Jan, thanks for highlighting the MODEL MODEL MODEL issue. That's HUGE. Probably more important than anything else we can do, making OUR chores not something we gripe about and avoid, and making money visible to them, and our decisions responsible, that's ... well, even if you do nothing else, that will probably set the stage for success just fine. (My mom does this with the both finances and charity work, and wishes she'd started doing so when we were little, instead of when I was a teen and most of the rest of us were grown and out of the house...)

And yes, that WAS shorter than the first version. :p

[hedra]

Another money discussion with an alternate viewpoint in the comments... something to consider (also Parenthacks.com): http://www.parenthacks.com/2006/02/teaching_money_.html

[Shara]

Has anyone tried those piggy banks with the compartments for spend, save, invest and charity?

I'm a non-parent, but also against paying for chores or grades. I did get a very small allowance as a kid (like $1/week from age 7-12). I realize my mom was trying to teach me the value of money, but $1 wasn't going to go far in the 80's! Then, by the time I was 9 or 10 and babysitting and cleaning houses for cash, I do wish she had sat down with me and taught me about more about money, beyond "saving up for stuff I wanted". It's taken me a LONG time to learn the hard way. Kudos to all of you who are trying to teach your kids good habits at an early age!

[Kathy]

The only thing I have to add is a way to avoid having to have cash on hand every week for allowance.

My dad is the treasurer of his school district's credit union, so acting like a bank came pretty naturally. My brother and I got paid allowance for some above-and-beyond responsibilities that we took on. (I think my brother did some mowing, a big job on 9 acres, and I was responsible for feeding the rabbits.)

Instead of giving us cash, my dad had sheets of ledger paper on a bulletin board in his office. Every week he'd write down the date and any deposits and withdrawals. Any time I wanted to see how much money I had, I could just go look at the running total. I could get a little thrill at watching it add up, and you could look at long-term spending patterns. If we wanted to buy something, we knew that we'd have to ask enough ahead of time that Mom or Dad would have a chance to get the cash, in case they didn't happen to have it on hand. (This also gave my parents an opportunity to help guide our choices, come to think of it.) Or Mom or Dad would pay for whatever and then write down the withdrawal.

I never minded not being able to see the physical money. I think it worked better for me than for my impulsive (ADD) brother, who always had a lot of red ink on his sheet. (Yes, Dad let us go into debt, though I'm not sure when that was allowed.)

[money]

I never received an allowance. We (siblings) did work around the house and then if we needed money for something, we asked. Either we got it or we didn't, based on various reasons. Not the least whether or not Mom and Dad had any to give!

So I'm unsure what kids do with their allowance?

When do they use their allowance to by a book and when does Parent just buy the book for them? Do they end up with cheap toys because that's all they can afford on the allowance?

I don't quite get it. I understand the need to learn about money (that would've been useful in my 20s) but I don't understand how this happens prior to a kid being able to earn money at a first job. (Nod to Hedra for the example of $1 a week not really doing much.)

If someone can explain how the allowance thing works, I'd appreciate it. :)

[Christiana]

My husband recently got on the Dave Ramsey boat and is gung ho about saving and making sure you know where your money goes, etc. He is very adamant that we will teach aour children from an early age. I know I truly wish I had saved more of my money when I didn't have any/many expenses of my own so that I would be in a better situation now.

I had to work for my allowance as a kid, but it was hooked in with working for the family business. I had chores to do around the house, but if I didn't work in the shop, not only did I not get my hour wage (about $2/hour initially) but I didn't get my allowance either. I love the theory that chores are your family responsibility and not to be paid for.

In answer to jessica's question, though, I'd say $4 a week for a 4-yr-old is too much unless you were going to force some savings or something. I'd say 1-2 $s would be fine.

[money]

Kathy -- so were you only able to buy something if you had money in the "bank"?

[Pamela]

We do basically what Jean, the above commenter, does. M and B have basic responsibilities which are things you do because you're part of the family: you slept in the bed, so you make it, you wore the clothes, so you put them away, etc. But we also have a chore list, with monetary values assigned for each thing. She/he can choose any of these items to complete for extra money. this is a great way to use sibling rivalry to your advantage. :) If M has more money than B, suddenly more chores start getting done. I like Kathy's suggestion above about not giving them cash, too.

[flea]

I have known some small children to save up their allowance to buy Christmas/birthday/whatever presents for family members. A charming choice!

My eldest just turned 4, and I am going to wait some for an allowance. I do think adding regular chores around the house would be a good idea. She recently said, "I want to help out around the house!" Can't let that kind of volunteerism go to waste!

[hedra]

The cheap toys from small allowance is an issue. With $1.50/week, the dollar store is a likely bet, as is Goodwill/resale. However, that also means they can end up with cheap stuff, which breaks. Which we've used as the basis for talking about quality issues, which leads to savings discussions, which leads to savings, and so the cheap-toys thing has just been a 'learning experience' overall.

What do we buy, vs what do they buy is a good question. We provide a set spending amount for special events - for example, we'd provide $5-$20 for special trips (say, the Art Museum, or Williamsburg). We also buy snacks (all food is from the family pot), including 'treat' food (like ice cream store visits). We buy clothing, including a limited number of 'for style purposes only' items (item limit is set in advance of the trip to the big resales, for example) - if they want more than the budgeted amount, then that's their money. If it would solve a current problem, then we generally consider that 'family money' (for example, buying a wallet). If it is for their entertainment ONLY, or if it is an upgrade over the type of item we would usually buy (Heely's sneakers instead of plain ones), that's their money. Books are also generally our money, but we still have a budget for that. They can use their own money to supplement the budget amount. And if there's something that we normally would not purchase, but it is a philosophical thing (like, Power Rangers stuff), but that is more a 'I refuse to purchase that but if it was given as a gift wouldn't throw it away', they can purchase those types of items for themselves. It being their money, after all. Safety still applies, but unless it violates a specific principle (in a way I can argue rationally), their money is their money.

So, currently, allowance is spent on additional items at the museum shops, pokemon/yu-gi-oh cards, expensive clothing/shoes, and toys that are wanted outside the normal toy-buying times (birthday/Christmas). We do include negotiation - if they can prove the case that the purchase SHOULD be a family one and not their own, we'll listen. If we're getting 'one for everyone' that usually indicates it is a family purchase, though not always. Candy isn't generally allowed due to the dietary stuff with our kids... that's what MY allowance was for, as a kid, LOL! Buying things the parents wouldn't otherwise buy for me, which meant chocolate and soda. (We buy forbidden-for-health-reasons treats off them if they get them in other ways, like Halloween or birthday party treats.)

Oh, and we get the cash out on a quarterly basis, and stock envelopes with the dates on them (recycled - just cross off the old date, add new date). Otherwise, we forget when they last got their allowance, and that sets up a bad 'you can ignore your finances' model. BTDT.

There are plenty of ways to do this - I like the running ledger approach, and I have no trouble at all with the 'just ask if you need money for something and we'll assess the budget and needs' method as well - that's a reasonable real-life model as well. Playing stock market games (or joining the Investing club), having relatives buy stocks for them to watch, being open about how to save for retirement, working it the way you'd work it for a non-working spouse, etc., etc., those are all fabo options. And I'm not certain our way is ideal, even for us - we're always tweaking, and each child has different needs/strengths/talents/skills. The point is to do whatever works to help them a) access the funds that are theirs as members of the family, and b) gain skills regarding money, budget, saving, and investing.

[Slim]

"I never received an allowance. We (siblings) did work around the house and then if we needed money for something, we asked. Either we got it or we didn't, based on various reasons. Not the least whether or not Mom and Dad had any to give!

So I'm unsure what kids do with their allowance?"

They buy the stuff that you asked your parents to buy for you.

At least one study has shown that kids who receive an allowance and kids who don't end up getting the same amount of money from their parents. Kids with an allowance just know what they'll be getting and can plan accordingly. (Or not plan, and get a Valuable Life Lesson instead.)

[m]

Like Money, we never got an allowance. I used to ask every now and then for one and we were simply told that our family could not afford it. We almost never asked for money and if we did, it had to be a very good reason, not because we wanted a toy or candy. We only received toys at Christmas and for our birthdays. My parents rarely bought 'stuff' so we didn't have the model of buying stuff, either. On a somewhat regular basis, my father would empty his pockets of change, and if we could count it correctly, we got to keep it. My sister always blew hers on candy, but I saved mine. I also started babysitting at eleven years, just so I could have my own money!

My husband and I haven't talked about the idea of an allowance in our family as our son is only 18month. I know I'm leaning towards not having it, but I guess we'll see!

[Kathy]

"Kathy -- so were you only able to buy something if you had money in the "bank"?"

They must have let my brother buy something when he didn't have money, since I remember red ink, but maybe that was because they made him pay for something he broke when he was broke? (I vaguely recall a rock-in-snowball broken window incident.)

I remember well having a conversation about something big that I wanted (it might have been Barbie's Dream House) and my dad calculating for me how much it cost, how much money I had, and how many weeks I'd have to go without buying anything in order to pay for it. I never got the Dream House, and I don't remember if that's because I decided it wasn't worth it, or if I never earned enough, or if by the time I had the money I didn't want it anymore.

[hedra]

(Jan, thanks for the link to that discussion. It sparked a few things for me. thanks! really useful, food for thought.)

[Cathy]

We have a 4 year old and a 13 year old in the house right now.

The system we've worked out for the 13 year old is similar to several already mentioned.

He gets paid $3/week for doing household chores. Every now and then, we add a new chore as he gets older and more capable and we "pay" him to do this new chore until he becomes competent at it, and then it becomes a part of his normal responsibility as part of the family.

He does not usually remember to collect his allowance, so to avoid being hit up for $40 at once, he's only allowed collect up to $15 at a time. We keep track of any dockings for poor quality and collections on the family calendar on the kitchen. Previously, he was supposed to keep it on a sheet of paper, but he would write down stuff all right before collecting, including taking out garbage on weekends he was camping with Scouts.

He uses the money to buy stuff at the comic book store, or to pay the difference on upgrades - since he's started liking expensive sneakers, etc, or to pay for stuff he's broken.

He also earns money by being in charge of the aluminum cans. He is supposed to collect them in the garage in garbage bags and my husband will bring him to the recycling center every once in a while. However, IMHO, I didn't feel like I should have to remind him to take care of the cans, so if I find them on the counter or whatnot, I tend to put them in the recycle bins for trash pickup day. He can fish them out and put them where they should be when he takes out the recycling if he is motivated, and they don't drive me crazy on the counter.

My 4 year old, we don't give an allowance to yet. We should probably start giving her more jobs to do, as she is an eager helper. I would expect that we start an allowance system with her when she begins grade school, but we haven't discussed it yet.

[Cathy]

Oh, and we do also occasionally let the 13 year old run a line of credit - something he would be able to pay off in the forseeable future, and we track which weeks he's forefitted his allowance on the kitchen calendar.

[jessica]

A brilliant woman I know named Rose who has 2 kids does something called Toy Points, where the kids earn points for doing extras, saying please, thank you, etc. 20 points equals $1. Points can be exchanged for cash value or for a special thing like going to the movies/extra special over-and-beyond-the-norm quality time thing. (Which they often choose over the material stuff)

Her kids never pester her to give them money, don't whine in stores, and they learned very quickly to count and manage their money and that they have to earn what they want.

If they misbehave she can take their points away.

I think it's a great system and I plan on doing this with my daughter when she is old enough.

[jessica]

A brilliant woman I know named Rose who has 2 kids does something called Toy Points, where the kids earn points for doing extras, saying please, thank you, etc. 20 points equals $1. Points can be exchanged for cash value or for a special thing like going to the movies/extra special over-and-beyond-the-norm quality time thing. (Which they often choose over the material stuff)

Her kids never pester her to give them money, don't whine in stores, and they learned very quickly to count and manage their money and that they have to earn what they want.

If they misbehave she can take their points away.

I think it's a great system and I plan on doing this with my daughter when she is old enough.

[suze]

Hmmmm, for us (3 kids 5, 7, and 9)allowance is tied in to their chores with the understanding that if you share in the family work, you then can share in the family money. Its worked wonderfully so far.

Each child has a chart with all kinds of chores, from making their bed to feeding the dog to vacuuming, on one axis, and 7 days on the other.

Each kid has to achieve their age x 2 checks (thus 10 checks for the 5 year old) to earn their allowance each week,(allowance is their age - we are fortunte in my husband's job) and each check above that amount earns 25 cents.
This works well- if the 5 year old puts his toys away and clears his setting after dinner 5 days a week, he earns his allowance. The 9 year old has to do more.

10 percent of their weekly allowance goes towards charity (family meeting monthly where the kids determine where it will go), 50 percent goes into savings, the rest is their pocket money. We parents do not buy anything that is not a basic need - so they have to save for the toys or games or candy or the extra pair of stylish shoes.
We also have an agreement that if they put more than 50 percent into savings, we will match that additional amount.

I've always like the idea of separating finances and allowance, but as this is working well for us so far (and the kids realy do understand the importance of helping the family - perhaps our emphasis on that is why it works so well). The 9YO often puts all her pocket money into the charity container, and the 5 year old is so excited to be doing his chores (we start at 5).

Maybe it will be different if a few years - we'll see.

[suze]

errrrr...separating CHORES and allowance.

[Kathy B.]

From an older reader: My daughter is now 26 years old, and I absolutely do NOT remember how we handled allowance.

The only thing I do remember is that at one time I proposed an "allowance for chores" process, and she just said, "well, I don't care if I get an allowance or not, so I'll just not do any chores." Um, yeah, that didn't go over so good! I know she did chores; I know she had money; I'm not sure how (or if) they related.

Quick note on paying for grades -- I resisted paying for grades until she was in high school, then changed my mind. I decided once she was in 9th grade,her job was to go to school and get good grades. We paid $5 for an A; $4 for a B; nothing for a C; if she got a D, we subtracted $2 from her total (for each D); if she got an F, she got NO money at all. Straight A's were worth $100. (she never quite managed straight A's!)

[Cat, Galloping]

i just have to say that, wow! moxie! did you know that you were so famous on that parenthacks site that hedra mentioned? i got curious so I went over and did a search on "moxie" and you're like their god over there! well deserved, of course.

[emily]

Not a parent, but a proud aunt and really want to weigh in on the allowance/chores issue. My sister and I got allowances that were not tied to chores -- and even though I HATED my chores (setting and clearing the table, mostly; later, mowing the lawn), I appreciate how clear my mother was with the lesson that we are all members of one family and as such we will all contribute to the running of the household. I also am kind of amazed at the complexity of some of the allowance formulae described in these comments. And as for what little ones spend their allowance on -- for me, it was art supplies, books and the occasional toy. My parents always encouraged me to read, write and draw, but colored pencils, pens, paint, drawing paper, and piles and piles of books could get very expensive. So I spent my allowance on a lot of these things, and we were all happy.

[Jessica]

Thank you Moxie for your great advice and to everyone for your wonderful and very detailed comments. I think what I have decided after reading everyone's thoughts is that my four year old is too young/has no need for an allowance, that I will separate allowance from chores, and that she is old enough for a chore chart. For the time being, I will continue to have her ask for items that she wants and when she gets to be a little older, we can start with an official allowance. I will have to give the mechanics of how the allowance will work a little more thought over then next year or two, but there are a lot of great ideas here, so thank you. I also think that I will likely pay her a nominal sum to help with "extra" items around the house, but until she is a little older I think those occasions may be few an far between. I like the idea of developing a list with prices for extra jobs that I would have to pay someone else to do (washing windows!) but it will likely be a few years before she can accomplish any of these jobs with the skill level I would want if I am paying extra for them!

Again, I am so grateful to all of you for your wonderful comments!
Jessica

[Susan Beacham]

I run a company with a mission to help kids get smart about money. My first book for parents coming out next year will have lots of advice for parents about allowance. On our website we have a discussion forum specifically on allowance. I urge readers of this blog to visit the forum and to add to the discussion there. Here is the link:

http://www.msgen.com/assembled/forum.html

[tiredmama]

I had an allowance when I was older, maybe around junior high? It was basically just pocket money for when I was going out with friends to the mall or movies, etc.

I have a 4-year-old now, and no allowance so far - although we've talked a little about money. One day he talked me into going to the bookstore (not that I need much excuse! :) ) Since it was an impulse trip, I told him that he only had $5 to spend. I gave him his $5 bill and we looked at all the prices, and I helped him figure out what he could afford. He seemed pretty satisfied with his purchase - instead of the usual requests of "and this! and this!" :)

I don't think we'll wind up tying allowance to chores; otherwise I want some too! LOL Seriously, I like the idea of teaching him that we ALL pitch in to keep the house nice; plus, like Kathy B's daughter, I suspect he'd shrug and say "ok, I don't need any money!" :)

[STL Mom]

My second-grader still can't remember what each coin is worth, much less make change, so I think she's not ready for allowance. She's saved up $2 of tooth fairy money, but what can she buy with $2? Candy or ice cream seems wrong, the stuff from vending machines is potentially full of lead, and I hate most stuff from the dollar store as it will clutter her room for years.
I don't remember whether I got allowance in 2nd grade. I do know that when I was 12 or 13, my parents helped my open a checking account and gave me my allowance monthly via automatic deposit from their account. For the next year or two I regularly overdrew my account, but luckily it was a special account for kids with small penalties. However there were overdraft fees, and by the time I was 14 or 15 I had learned to balance my checkbook and keep track of my money. I don't know if you can do this these days, or if you would risk ruining your child's credit rating for years. I was glad that I learned how to budget and manage money while I was still young and the amounts were very small.
I had regular chores, and occasionally there were big ones I did for cash. My parents provided the basics, and any extras I wanted (name-brand shampoo, make-up, money to go out with friends) came out of my allowance. I had a bigger allowance than most of my friends, but I was NEVER given extra money. At the time I resented it sometimes, but now I think it really taught me a lot. I will probably be almost as cruel to my children, if my husband will let me.

[Jody]

Without getting into personal details, one of the questions pediatric psychologists will ask grade-schoolers is, "what responsibilities do you have around the house?" If the answer is "none," parents are strongly encouraged to change the system. Having small, achievable, regular family duties is Good For You on a variety of levels -- but then again, we already knew that.

My kids asked for an allowance at the start of kindergarten, but forgot about it within about 3 weeks, so we dropped it. They asked about it again at the start of this year, and we're trying it: they get $1 a piece each Friday (they're in first grade, that seems like an appropriate amount). I know I should formally give them $1.25 each Friday, and have them slip the 25 cents into their offering envelopes, but it's such an organizational hassle that I've mostly just been throwing the church offerings in their direction on Sunday morning. (We're also talking much more seriously about what concrete talents and gifts they can give to our community, since the whole giving-money thing doesn't make a lot of sense for children, IMHO.)

I know that chores and allowance will not be connected here, but I'm sure we'll introduce special money-making extras at some point. I had thought that school-age would be the right time to introduce allowance, but honestly, after 4 weeks, the kids are losing interest in the money all over again. I'm nagged by the worry that they don't care because they already get everything they could possibly want (materially) from indulgent grandparents, and, okay, their parents, too.

[betsy]

This is a subject of great interest to me. I'm a proponent of the "family work" idea. I always wanted my daughter to be a person who -- in due time -- had done enough of the basic household chores that she'd look at a kitchen strewn with stuff and know what to do about it and be able to. Also, that she'd become a "pitch in" sort of person instead of just doing her own designated chores.

One thing I've done is teach her a given skill, like laundry, and have her do her own clothes for awhile, then throw in some of mine, or some towels, and pretty soon she's sorting and toting things up and down the basement stairs.

Once she'd mastered that, I moved on to other tasks, not all at once, and she needn't be doing them all at once, either. She had a particularly hard year at school a couple of years ago and I told her I'd take back her laundry if she wanted me to, and relieve her of that burden.

As for allowance, it seems inane to give kids money before they have any interest in it. It's just a toy, then. When kids begin to want everythiung in the store, that's a logical time to begin. I forget what we gave my dautghter, but it was small. Maybe fifty cents a week or something and she was maybe six.

I do not think an allowance should be earned, and I particularly abhor the practice in many families of withholding allowance if chores are not done, or for some rules infraction that's completely unrelated. If you punish them by withholding the allowance, that's just faking that it isn't something they have to earn.

Allowances to me are for learning. Just as we give kids (when we can afford it) a bike, or a ball and bat, or books, we give them money to practice with. If they overspend and have no more, or lose it -- well, it's theirs, now. It's just paper -- currency. And if we make a big deal out of how they spend it, we reveal how important money is to us, and that can be a shock. Learning is way more important to most of us, but it takes remembering this.

The only limit I put on how she spent her allowance was this: she was free to spend it any way she liked as long as it was in congruence with the values of our family. That meant, at age seven, No candy. I was thinking ahead to the time when she might wish to buy cigarettes or who knows what else.

Now fifteen, my daughter gets $15. a week, paid every two weeks (to extend the budgeting and planning ahead skills). Out of this comes the cost of everything she does with friends (movies, meals out, etc.), cosmetics, books for herself beyond what seems reasonable as a purchase we all might enjoy, and whatever gifts she gives others, etc. She is never broke, holds onto it til she can pay for what she wants (a word to the wise: NEVER give a loan or advance on an allowance).

She has learned how to handle the paying for, receiving change, managing her wallet, purse, getting out of the way, not forgetting the purchase, etc. She has more than a few times donated money to disasters and to political candidates ("it's the nearest thing to voting I can do, mom...").

Soon I'll be asking her to also take responsibility for her own purchases of clothes, or some of her clothes. Not sure yet what makes the most sense, developmentally and incrementally.

[ugg outlet store]

the gray sea and the long black land;and the startled little waves that leap in fiery ringlets from their sleep

[timberland boots sale]

Pay attention to your internal dialogue, and learn to notice when you allow negativity or doubt to control the course of your thinking.

[Shane]

Without getting into personal details, one of the questions pediatric psychologists will ask grade-schoolers is, "what responsibilities do you have around the house?" If the answer is "none," parents are strongly encouraged to change the system. Having small, achievable, regular family duties is Good For You on a variety of levels -- but then again, we already knew that.

My kids asked for an allowance at the start of kindergarten, but forgot about it within about 3 weeks, so we dropped it. They asked about it again at the start of this year, and we're trying it: they get $1 a piece each Friday (they're in first grade, that seems like an appropriate amount). I know I should formally give them $1.25 each Friday, and have them slip the 25 cents into their offering envelopes, but it's such an organizational hassle that I've mostly just been throwing the church offerings in their direction on Sunday morning. (We're also talking much more seriously about what concrete talents and gifts they can give to our community, since the whole giving-money thing doesn't make a lot of sense for children, IMHO.)

I know that chores and allowance will not be connected here, but I'm sure we'll introduce special money-making extras at some point. I had thought that school-age would be the right time to introduce allowance, but honestly, after 4 weeks, the kids are losing interest in the money all over again. I'm nagged by the worry that they don't care because they already get everything they could possibly want (materially) from indulgent grandparents, and, okay, their parents, too.