I Hate Kindergarten

So this is the beginning of Week 3 for us, and I'm really hating it so far. My frustration is two-fold:

1. Kindergarten (at least the public K we're at) is absolutely not set up for working parents. The drop-off time is decent, but then I'm supposed to sit in the classroom and read with him for 20 minutes before I leave. So I'm going to be late for work every freaking day of the school year, plus we now have a too-long goodbye ritual that is working him into a frenzy. And he won't even sit with me to read because he likes to read by himself, and we read so much at home all the time anyway.

Of course, it doesn't seem to be set up for the SAHMs either, judging by how stressed-out they all look, too.

And that list of school supplies? Not the list his teacher gave us. So we had to go out and buy $30 worth of stuff (not all available at the same store) that didn't all overlap with what we'd previously bought. Why we couldn't just all come in with $30 and have the teacher place one big order from Staples.com or OfficeDepot.com for the classroom is beyond me.

Grr. And that's not the actual bad part.

2. My older one was in preschool 3 half-days a week for the previous two years, so school is not a new experience for him. But this is just killing him. It's all about the ritual, with no substance so far that we can see. He's bored, and is starting to act out. He ended up with the bitchy, princessy K teacher, not one of the sweet exuberant teachers, and he's totally chafing under her scolding and mean rigidity. The teacher now thinks he's troublemaker (but by the 6th day pf school she hadn't figured out that he can read). And he's freaking out about school and cries and doesn't want to go. When I finally got to leave (damn that long drawn-out reading time crap) last Wednesday he broke down into sobs (and this is a kid who will not cry in public) and tried to run away out of the classroom.

Everyone keeps saying he needs to adjust to the routine. But what kind of routine turns a kid who was super-excited about school into a kid who says he wants to run away so he never has to go back? And I'm completely torn between trying to get him switched into one of the other sections with a kind and pleasant teacher, or keeping him in this class because there's another kid who's reading fluently so there's a tiny chance that the teacher might come up with something to keep them challenged.

My other plan is to try to make some playdates with the other kids in the class, so at least he can enjoy the other kids, even if the teacher is mean. So far it's been tough, though, since I'm working, and we had two days off for Rosh Hashanah last week (NYC public school holiday schedule).

I hate this. And I'm not alone. Kel and Dawn are feeling the pain, too. Kel writes:

"My 5 ¾-year-old started public kindergarten last week.  He has been in day care since he was 6 months old, then was transitioned into a very good, very expensive Montessori preschool until this year.  He's a bright kid and we have been warned about his becoming bored.  He seems to act out when bored.

I'm biased, but would say he is a good kid.  Polite.  A leader.  Very social.  We hear all time from other parents what a pleasure he is to have over or have as their child's friend because he's so good natured and polite.  We work on that, we praise and model those behaviors.

He had a twenty day break between the end of Montessori and the start of kindergarten.  He was home with his other mom (he has two) and his twin toddler sisters.  During this vacation his behavior seemed to deteriorate.  He stopped listening and worse, he became argumentative.  I've heard the phrase "But Mom..." more in the past month than I have in the past 5 years.  I wasn't home (she's the stay at home Mom for now) so as I only had to put up with it for four or five hours a day, I just chalked it up to being 5.  It was harder on my partner, of course, and we finally came to the conclusion (justification) that perhaps his behavior had to do with starting a completely unfamiliar situation and meeting brand new children for the first time since before he can remember.   He  has no control over what is happening, so he is trying to grab some control in the only ways he can.

Then school started.  Or rather the first two days after the holiday were actually the pre and post school program open house run by the YMCA for all those kids who will be in that program (my partner hopes to go back to work as soon as we get the girls settled in preschool).  Despite the orientation which highlighted the separate room for kindergartners, it has (so far) been a free-for-all with the 5 year olds running with the 8 and 9 year olds.  He was injured slightly the second day when he fell off the stairs to the classroom (a real accident from all accounts), but kid-on-kid violence seems to be ignored for the most part.  We have been assured the program will get much more structured as everyone gets homework assigned and routines are established.  Unfortunately this experience may have escalated our problems.

The actual kindergarten class seems fine.  There are 18 children in the class.  The teacher seems bright and focused.  He is far beyond the work they are doing, but we expected that and hope the teacher will create other assignments for him once it all gets going.  In the four days of actual school, he has been in trouble on two of those days. His teacher tentatively (diplomatically) told us this morning that he was having a very hard time listening. Then, today  he interrupted circle time and then continued to misbehave (making raspberry noises) after being set in a chair away from the other students.

Tonight he was wild with his sisters, far beyond the usual older brother rough housing and it took nearly 30 minutes to get him to explain to me what he did today in class.  He said he couldn't describe the noise he was making because it was an accident.   No TV and no dessert later, he promised to work harder at listening and being a good citizen.  He is supposed to start soccer this week, but we have now offered up losing that as the consequences of further misbehavior.

On the one hand, I feel the need to be very rigid in my response to what is happening.  I don't want him labeled as the wild child.  If he gets away with this, it will escalate.  On the other, I want to let him get settled and not pounce too hard.  I don't want him to dislike the whole school situation.  Other than letting the teacher know we are on her side and will be supportive of whatever actions she takes and will also provide additional reinforcement at home we don't know what to or how long to wait should his behavior get worse.

We are working on the Y program administrators and will pull him out of that program should it not improve, once we find a nanny who can pick him up at 1:30.

Any help you or your posse want to suggest will be gratefully accepted."

To me, it sounds like your guy is missing the structure he had at the Montessori preK. The free-for-all is probably wigging him out and may even be scaring him, so he's reacting really poorly.

I'd like to invite you to switch your son in for mine at school, because my son's teacher is extremely rules and structure-oriented, to the point of being nasty. Barring that, I'd see if you could figure out how to add more structure until the school shapes up. It sounds like soccer will be excellent for him (combo of structure and physical exertion) and maybe you guys could do some kind of greater structure in the evenings (more dinner-related chores or prep for school from him, for example).

Dawn's problems are slightly different, but still follow the I Hate Kindergarten theme:

"My six year old daughter is a very shy girl until you get to know her, and she has gone back to school after the summer holidays tho she is getting upset about this. She cries just as the school door opens, not before and not at home . I really don't think she is getting bullied or anything like that, but i know if no one has asked her to play she thinks no one wants to play with her. How can i help? It is getting me so upset and at the same time angry."

Poor thing. It sounds like making some playdates with the other kids in her class is exactly what will fix this problem. If she has some time to play with another kid one-on-one after school, that kid will probably be more friendly to her during school. I'd try to figure out if there are any one or two of the kids she talks about in a positive way, and try to get them together after school or on the weekends.

Does anyone have suggestions, comments, sympathy, or commiseration for any of us? Anyone else hating Kindergarten? Anyone have an opinion on whether I should stick with the crappy teacher so my son can be with the other kid who's reading at his same level, or try to get him switched into another class (which I may not even be able to do)?

Comments

[me]

This is such a different post from the one a few weeks back about how to make teachers' lives easier!! http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2007/08/making-life-goo.html

The two things I remember most is not to expect too much time from teachers in the first week or two of school. And if you have enough $$ to eat out, consider skipping that and donating supplies. (Although the school should NOT drive parents nuts by making them run hell west and crooked to buy them!!)

I only have children under 3 - my oldest has known all his letters (upper AND lowercase) since he was 20 months. So this is scaring me!

I was the painfully shy kid growing up. I was generally afraid of men, so I couldn't do playdates with ANYONE if their father was coming home before my mom could claim me. Sadly, the day I finally got brave enough to go to a schoolmate's house was the same day that my "friend's" older sister was caught smoking and all holy hell broke loose at the house with screaming and yelling, banging hands on tables... Seriously, that was about 30 years ago, and here I tell about it! Ha ha!

If one of my own take this route, I will try and see if I can hang around at the playdates at least for the beginning, or host them at my own place. Sometimes, little people seem to need extra help to get the playtime going before they are comfortable on their own. Alone for 15 - 20 minutes might be a realistic goal to start with - your daughter is just a little girl.

[Lisa C.]

My gut says for you to move El Chico, because I had a bad K year, and a bad 1st grade year, and those years coupled with my sensory processing issues made the rest of my time in elementary school utter hell.

But I would also encourage you to try and work with this teacher before you do anything, and not to expect too much during the first month of school. And you must tell her that you can't stay at school for 20 minutes every morning. Explain why, then leave.

As for the lack of supervision in the after school program, I'd give it another week and then start complaining or put him in a different after school program.

[Julie]

From what I understand about NY public schools, the Reading/Writing Workshop is mandatory curriculum (developed by Lucy Calkins at Teacher's College at Columbia) and is fantastic for readers and writers of all levels - tons of opportunities for independence, individualization, personal decision-making etc. If this is, in fact, the case, explore with your son's teacher how this structure works within her classroom and find out when she plans on "launching" it.

I like Hedra's suggestion of making yourself that very kind but "involved" parent to get more information about the fit with your child and to find out just how flexible she is. I do take note though of the assumption that "most" teachers are inexperienced with GATE learners and have not had much training to do so. Above and beyond what is required for most teaching credentials in each state, I know that many schools across the country are focusing on differentiated learning as a way to reach all learners, not just the struggling students or the students in the middle. It can be EXTREMELY hard to do.....but a lot of time has been spent talking about it and learning about it. I can say of the 40 teachers I work with and coach at my particular school site, they are ALL experienced with the students who are above and beyond what the set curriculum of that grade level is......and work hard to reach these students as well as their middle and struggling ones. Every school is different, every state is different....you have great apples, so-so apples and mushy apples everywhere.

[Fran]

I don't have kids in school, and this is possibly an unpopular suggestion these days, but when I was in kindergarten, I was so bored (already knew how to read, do some basic math, etc.) that my mom finally got the school to skip me to the first grade. I'm sure there would be some concern about the social aspects of this, and maybe it's different for boys as well, but I honestly never suffered or felt out of place by being younger. Maybe that's an option for your son? It sucks beyond sucking to be a kid trapped in an unchallenging class with a hostile teacher and/or classmates for a whole year.

[marion]

As an early reader myself, I say do everything in your power to get the kid switched to another classroom now. Assuming there are books around in the classroom during the day, he will find plenty to do. I went to kindergarten in the '70s, before most places even thought about encouraging fast learners, and yet my reading skills still sped along (and interacted with the new spelling and pronunciation skills I was learning to push forward my brain development - I knew how to read and pronounce "cough," for example, and I knew what it meant, but I didn't know how to spell it from scratch, as it were). Keep him supplied with books at home and read to him there, but I think he'll be fine in a classroom without a heavily structured reading component. Kindergarten teacher niceness is important. It's not that there are no good but strict kindergarten teacher types...but they tend to be the ones who only need to look in a certain way at the classroom to get the kids scurrying into their seats. Your son will have a good kindergarten experience if he's happy. Everything else will work itself out.

The 20-minute reading time thing is bogus. Could you perhaps connect up with some of the other parents by e-mail and organize a mass boycott?

[liz]

Out here in the 'burbs, the public school kids - even the half-day kindergarteners! - ride the big yellow bus. Hence, no 20 minute reading thing.

MM is in full-day private kindergarten and loving it. Most of his class is reading or close to it.

Please talk with the teacher first, let her know he's reading. See if that changes her attitude toward him.

For the soccer player, please keep him playing and talk to that teacher too, and take him out of the Y. I've never known a good Y program.

[O]

No time to read the other comments right now but Moxie, for your child, I say SWITCH. There might be three kids reading at his level in the other class.
It won't be easy, probably; admins get very nervous and "if we let you switch we'll have to let everyone switch" instead of realizing that not every kid and every teacher are a great match. And not that learning how to get by with supervisors we loathe isn't a good life lesson and all but for a K experience...not ideal and not the hidden curriculum lesson you want them learning.
Oh, my heart aches for all. Hang in there.

[Susannah]

Moxie, have you read "Real Boys" and "Raising Cain" yet? I'm nowhere near pre-school yet (B is 8 months), but your mention of the "exuberant" teacher rings a bell and makes me think of those books. I'm not a big fan of gender determinism but the books gave me some food for thought, and a vocabulary with which to have dialog about what many boys need that might be different from most girls.

Both authors point out how early schooling is usually fairly well designed for typical "girl" culture, but harder for high-energy, high-movement typical "boy" culture. As in: the best way to deal with transition jitters is "let's all sit quietly in a circle and read" versus running around yelling to burn off tension or excitement. We make such strong value judgments about how boys "act out" in school, especially since elementary school teacher culture is usually very "female". Then we say boys are "troublemakers" because they don't sit quietly. Of course kids shouldn't be disrupting others' learning, but who said you have to sit quietly to learn??? A good boy-oriented program ought to create non-disruptive opportunities for kids with more active temperaments and learning styles.

Easy to say, I know. I have to hand it to elementary school teachers for even staying in the field. It seems so hard.

Anyway, maybe your instinct about the Exuberant teacher is right on target- could she possibly celebrate El Chico's boy energy better than the Princess, and help him find non-disruptive ways of acting out his worries and excitement? Or, maybe the Princess might be open to reading "Raising Cain" so you could open a dialog about this?

Sorry for all the quotation marks- they sort of snuck in there and it's hard to see how to get them out now. It's not comma-love, but close.

[Susannah]

Moxie, have you read "Real Boys" and "Raising Cain" yet? I'm nowhere near pre-school yet (B is 8 months), but your mention of the "exuberant" teacher rings a bell and makes me think of those books. I'm not a big fan of gender determinism but the books gave me some food for thought, and a vocabulary with which to have dialog about what many boys need that might be different from most girls.

Both authors point out how early schooling is usually fairly well designed for typical "girl" culture, but harder for high-energy, high-movement typical "boy" culture. As in: the best way to deal with transition jitters is "let's all sit quietly in a circle and read" versus running around yelling to burn off tension or excitement. We make such strong value judgments about how boys "act out" in school, especially since elementary school teacher culture is usually very "female". Then we say boys are "troublemakers" because they don't sit quietly. Of course kids shouldn't be disrupting others' learning, but who said you have to sit quietly to learn??? A good boy-oriented program ought to create non-disruptive opportunities for kids with more active temperaments and learning styles.

Easy to say, I know. I have to hand it to elementary school teachers for even staying in the field. It seems so hard.

Anyway, maybe your instinct about the Exuberant teacher is right on target- could she possibly celebrate El Chico's boy energy better than the Princess, and help him find non-disruptive ways of acting out his worries and excitement? Or, maybe the Princess might be open to reading "Raising Cain" so you could open a dialog about this?

Sorry for all the quotation marks- they sort of snuck in there and it's hard to see how to get them out now. It's not comma-love, but close.

[Susannah]

Moxie, have you read "Real Boys" and "Raising Cain" yet? I'm nowhere near pre-school yet (B is 8 months), but your mention of the "exuberant" teacher rings a bell and makes me think of those books. I'm not a big fan of gender determinism but the books gave me some food for thought, and a vocabulary with which to have dialog about what many boys need that might be different from most girls.

Both authors point out how early schooling is usually fairly well designed for typical "girl" culture, but harder for high-energy, high-movement typical "boy" culture. As in: the best way to deal with transition jitters is "let's all sit quietly in a circle and read" versus running around yelling to burn off tension or excitement. We make such strong value judgments about how boys "act out" in school, especially since elementary school teacher culture is usually very "female". Then we say boys are "troublemakers" because they don't sit quietly. Of course kids shouldn't be disrupting others' learning, but who said you have to sit quietly to learn??? A good boy-oriented program ought to create non-disruptive opportunities for kids with more active temperaments and learning styles.

Easy to say, I know. I have to hand it to elementary school teachers for even staying in the field. It seems so hard.

Anyway, maybe your instinct about the Exuberant teacher is right on target- could she possibly celebrate El Chico's boy energy better than the Princess, and help him find non-disruptive ways of acting out his worries and excitement? Or, maybe the Princess might be open to reading "Raising Cain" so you could open a dialog about this?

Sorry for all the quotation marks- they sort of snuck in there and it's hard to see how to get them out now. It's not comma-love, but close.

[susannah]

oops on the triple post. sorry.

[pnuts mama]

hi moxie- this is primarily for you as i think the other two questions have been covered really well.

i went to nyc public schools K-8, and i did 1/2 day kindergarten- my teacher sounds a lot like el c's- (except she was pretty old) tight, rigid, no nonsense (or fun), etc. etc. looking back, i think she was just coasting to retirement and had lost the passion for her job years before, which i think was an epidemic in nyc during the 80's.

anyway, i was reading, etc. and was so friggin bored (in 1st grade, too) b/c intellectually i was advanced, but socially i was on track, maybe even a bit behind. i acted out like crazy and got into tons of trouble and *finally* during 1st grade my parents had my iq tested and i was accepted into the gifted/talented program.

it was a magnet program in a regular public school in my district- but we were our own little class of "nerds" and it was a wonderful experience for me- socially we were pretty much in the same place as well as intellectually. here's the link for the current program if you are interested: http://schools.nyc.gov/Academics/GiftedandTalented/default.htm

also, to affirm what others have said, i'm pretty sure the 20-minute reading rule is based in part to try and get parents to understand (through mandatory, observed action) the importance of reading to/with your kid, especially across socio-economic lines. i'd of course speak with the teacher and explain that you guys read tons before and after school, he reads at a 2nd grade level, etc etc. and explain your work requirements. if she seems unwilling to work with you, then go to her principal and see what you can do to switch classes.

i hope it works out for you guys. i was lucky to have some great teachers in that program that kept me into school, vs. my husband who got turned off from school (almost for life) in grammar school. it's so hard when you know how important this is. god bless you for knowing it and caring so much. take care.

[Lucky]

I just wanted to chime in and say that my kid is having a great time in public school Kindergarten. I know this is Moxie's blog - its not about me. But, to the parents who's kids are not yet in K and are getting freaked out here; it is possible to have a great K experience at public school in a big urban district. :-)

[Kel]

I wanted to comment to say thank you for this community and the collective wisdom. We are now on day 9 of our public school adventure and its not where I'd like it to be, but I hope we are on the right path.

Hedra's comments about transition time from Montessori to public school, dealing with the core issue (change, fear, lack of security) and not the symptoms (acting out, not listening, etc.) and that this feels as bad as the whole breastfeeding, CIO, co-sleeping decisions really struck me as right on the money. N is resilient and we all made it through those first months by trial and error, hey deja vu.

Here's what we've done:
1.Started soccer. Everyone was right. Good for working off the steam. Good for giving him a place to focus so the school transition is less all consuming. He's also met some other kindergärtners so the playground seems a bit less daunting (and the 9 year olds at the Y less attractive).
2.Established a rewards chart to give more structure to his whole world.
3.Went to the teacher's supply store and got some activity books (closer to his level) that we are all doing together each night (three nights so far and he seems to be enjoying it).
4.Have arranged to check in with his teacher at the end of each day to monitor how he's doing/they are doing (I am so not above kissing her young behind if it helps him out).
5.Started the nanny search to get him out of the Y program as soon as possible.

Dawn and Moxie, I hope your past few days have gotten a bit easier too. Hang in there and thanks again for the help.

Kel

[maman_du_petrus]

Moxie: I was in the public school system all my life. I could read when I started kindergarden ( I was the oldest in the class as I started at 6 years old, as I was born in September). I did not learn any "academic" things in K (or in most of first grade for that matter, we spent one week gluing the polycopies that we would use to learn reading in a ruled book and the kids would glue them upside down and eat the glue while I read the whole year worth of reading lessons). What I learned was to help others, to show them what I knew, to solve a problem: "decide what I would do with my time while the others finished the scheduled activity", to accept that we are not all learning at the same pace and that its ok, etc... I also learned that I had to struggle and listen carefully too sometimes (anything with building stuff, maths, I was not "good" at) and that others could help me then. My parents never told me then that I was "bright" or "gifted" and always told me that it was great that I knew how to read but sometimes I would not know what we would learn that day. They always said nice things about school and the teachers (at least in front of me) so I felt good about school. I turned out fine without being in a gifted child program.

[MommyProf]

In my experience, schools try hard to not have to do extra things for kids. When the need is clearly demonstrated, they will, but going into it with your claws out can cause problems for your child. I don't know how far into school you are, but I'd give the teacher at least 4 weeks to figure out things about the class. Then, if things aren't better, schedule a conference with the teacher. Keep the focus on the child and his wellbeing. The phrase "How can you and I work together to solve these problems" will help a lot. Come away with a specific plan, and see how things go for a few weeks. If you don't see any improvement, request a meeting with the principal and the teacher. Teachers do have hard jobs, but are much more accommodating when you act like their partner, not their enemy. Remember that you might have to endure unpleasant meetings for a few hours, but your son might have to endure bad treatment for the whole year if you get that relationship off on the wrong foot.

We had nightmarish kinder and 1st years, but second was much better and Offspring still likes school.

One other thought - don't make school the center of your kid's universe if things are not going well. School is important, yes, but so is being nice to your friends, interacting with your family, church or other activities, etc. Just as you probably use your family time as a break from the stresses of work, let your son do that, too, with school.

IMHO

[pnuts mama]

for the record, i only offered the G/T suggestion based on what you and LOD have shared about el C, and what his abilities are, in that, he seems to be advanced not only with his reading skills, but in other ways also, yet is (understandably) on track socially. some bright kids need to be challenged, and some challenge themselves. OTOH, i'm positive that el C do well in a regular class, even though they will absolutely 'teach to the middle'- you and LOD are clearly highly involved and committed educators that can cover the extras that he needs. but you said you considered keeping him in this classroom b/c one other kid is also able to read, which made me think of how nice it would be if the majority of his classmates were on that same level, and continued on a higher level as they grew.

the thing about the NYC school system is that it is so very very large, and there are a variety of options within it, vs. a town with "the" public grammar school, middle school, hs, etc. it is good and it's bad, good b/c you have a variety of choices, bad b/c the bureaucracy associated w/ such a large system can be deadly at times. i know so many public school teachers here that get dragged under sometimes b/c of so much red tape. they simply can't be as individual-based as they'd like to.

i know some schools offer a modified version of G/T for kids who perform very well academically, but aren't at G/T level, but I'm sorry I don't know the name of that program. i really hope things get better for you, and you resolve this quickly, hang in there.

[BrooklynGirl]

Not having been there, done that I have no practical advice except this: I'd tread lightly in expressing preference for one teacher over another--teachers get prickly about this (I say as a teacher). If you can talk to the teacher and see if she would be in favor of a switch (rather than talking to a principal/administrator), this might be your best move.

Also, regarding supplies, it stinks that the list was wrong, but every school I've ever worked in has encouraged us to ask for material goods rather than cash (because I think it's more painful for parents to admit they can't spend the $30).

Finally, I do think there's something to be said about adjusting to the routine. I wouldn't wait forever, but I'd be tempted to give it some more time (easy to say when it's not my kid who's miserable).

Hang in there.

[Jody]

I'm sorry it's not going well, Moxie. First Grade is kicking our asses, so my heart goes out to you.

Good luck. I hope it gets better soon.

[Heather]

Wow, as a kinder teacher the 20 min LONG GOODBYE is a HORRIBLE idea. I would push the parent's out the door. It isn't good for clingy mom's or seperation anxiety kids. Does the other K teacher do the same thing? I agree w/ pp she may be starting out the year strict, sometimes you have to with the K's. Some kids haven't had pre-school experience so they need the transition, rules and expectations laid out over and over. The reading thing is touchy, but there are SOOOO many assessments that we as Kinder teachers have to do (letter id, concepts of print, concepts of math etc...) and when you have 15-20 kids and so many hours. On top of that your son sounds READY for school but other kids are not in that boat and have a hard time. I would talk to the teacher just let her know you have some concerns about how the year started. If things don't change have a meeting with the principal you are your childs advocate fight for what you think is best for him! Good luck and I hope that Kindergarten turns out to be a great experience for him!

[Heath]

Slightly OT, but I don't know where else to put this - THANK YOU to Hedra for recommending the Parent Effectiveness Training book! I just devoured it and, wow - it's made a difference in my entire paradigm for parenting (and has made it easier for me to communicate effectively with my husband, too!)

Thank you, thank you, thank you!