I Hate Kindergarten

So this is the beginning of Week 3 for us, and I'm really hating it so far. My frustration is two-fold:

1. Kindergarten (at least the public K we're at) is absolutely not set up for working parents. The drop-off time is decent, but then I'm supposed to sit in the classroom and read with him for 20 minutes before I leave. So I'm going to be late for work every freaking day of the school year, plus we now have a too-long goodbye ritual that is working him into a frenzy. And he won't even sit with me to read because he likes to read by himself, and we read so much at home all the time anyway.

Of course, it doesn't seem to be set up for the SAHMs either, judging by how stressed-out they all look, too.

And that list of school supplies? Not the list his teacher gave us. So we had to go out and buy $30 worth of stuff (not all available at the same store) that didn't all overlap with what we'd previously bought. Why we couldn't just all come in with $30 and have the teacher place one big order from Staples.com or OfficeDepot.com for the classroom is beyond me.

Grr. And that's not the actual bad part.

2. My older one was in preschool 3 half-days a week for the previous two years, so school is not a new experience for him. But this is just killing him. It's all about the ritual, with no substance so far that we can see. He's bored, and is starting to act out. He ended up with the bitchy, princessy K teacher, not one of the sweet exuberant teachers, and he's totally chafing under her scolding and mean rigidity. The teacher now thinks he's troublemaker (but by the 6th day pf school she hadn't figured out that he can read). And he's freaking out about school and cries and doesn't want to go. When I finally got to leave (damn that long drawn-out reading time crap) last Wednesday he broke down into sobs (and this is a kid who will not cry in public) and tried to run away out of the classroom.

Everyone keeps saying he needs to adjust to the routine. But what kind of routine turns a kid who was super-excited about school into a kid who says he wants to run away so he never has to go back? And I'm completely torn between trying to get him switched into one of the other sections with a kind and pleasant teacher, or keeping him in this class because there's another kid who's reading fluently so there's a tiny chance that the teacher might come up with something to keep them challenged.

My other plan is to try to make some playdates with the other kids in the class, so at least he can enjoy the other kids, even if the teacher is mean. So far it's been tough, though, since I'm working, and we had two days off for Rosh Hashanah last week (NYC public school holiday schedule).

I hate this. And I'm not alone. Kel and Dawn are feeling the pain, too. Kel writes:

"My 5 ¾-year-old started public kindergarten last week.  He has been in day care since he was 6 months old, then was transitioned into a very good, very expensive Montessori preschool until this year.  He's a bright kid and we have been warned about his becoming bored.  He seems to act out when bored.

I'm biased, but would say he is a good kid.  Polite.  A leader.  Very social.  We hear all time from other parents what a pleasure he is to have over or have as their child's friend because he's so good natured and polite.  We work on that, we praise and model those behaviors.

He had a twenty day break between the end of Montessori and the start of kindergarten.  He was home with his other mom (he has two) and his twin toddler sisters.  During this vacation his behavior seemed to deteriorate.  He stopped listening and worse, he became argumentative.  I've heard the phrase "But Mom..." more in the past month than I have in the past 5 years.  I wasn't home (she's the stay at home Mom for now) so as I only had to put up with it for four or five hours a day, I just chalked it up to being 5.  It was harder on my partner, of course, and we finally came to the conclusion (justification) that perhaps his behavior had to do with starting a completely unfamiliar situation and meeting brand new children for the first time since before he can remember.   He  has no control over what is happening, so he is trying to grab some control in the only ways he can.

Then school started.  Or rather the first two days after the holiday were actually the pre and post school program open house run by the YMCA for all those kids who will be in that program (my partner hopes to go back to work as soon as we get the girls settled in preschool).  Despite the orientation which highlighted the separate room for kindergartners, it has (so far) been a free-for-all with the 5 year olds running with the 8 and 9 year olds.  He was injured slightly the second day when he fell off the stairs to the classroom (a real accident from all accounts), but kid-on-kid violence seems to be ignored for the most part.  We have been assured the program will get much more structured as everyone gets homework assigned and routines are established.  Unfortunately this experience may have escalated our problems.

The actual kindergarten class seems fine.  There are 18 children in the class.  The teacher seems bright and focused.  He is far beyond the work they are doing, but we expected that and hope the teacher will create other assignments for him once it all gets going.  In the four days of actual school, he has been in trouble on two of those days. His teacher tentatively (diplomatically) told us this morning that he was having a very hard time listening. Then, today  he interrupted circle time and then continued to misbehave (making raspberry noises) after being set in a chair away from the other students.

Tonight he was wild with his sisters, far beyond the usual older brother rough housing and it took nearly 30 minutes to get him to explain to me what he did today in class.  He said he couldn't describe the noise he was making because it was an accident.   No TV and no dessert later, he promised to work harder at listening and being a good citizen.  He is supposed to start soccer this week, but we have now offered up losing that as the consequences of further misbehavior.

On the one hand, I feel the need to be very rigid in my response to what is happening.  I don't want him labeled as the wild child.  If he gets away with this, it will escalate.  On the other, I want to let him get settled and not pounce too hard.  I don't want him to dislike the whole school situation.  Other than letting the teacher know we are on her side and will be supportive of whatever actions she takes and will also provide additional reinforcement at home we don't know what to or how long to wait should his behavior get worse.

We are working on the Y program administrators and will pull him out of that program should it not improve, once we find a nanny who can pick him up at 1:30.

Any help you or your posse want to suggest will be gratefully accepted."

To me, it sounds like your guy is missing the structure he had at the Montessori preK. The free-for-all is probably wigging him out and may even be scaring him, so he's reacting really poorly.

I'd like to invite you to switch your son in for mine at school, because my son's teacher is extremely rules and structure-oriented, to the point of being nasty. Barring that, I'd see if you could figure out how to add more structure until the school shapes up. It sounds like soccer will be excellent for him (combo of structure and physical exertion) and maybe you guys could do some kind of greater structure in the evenings (more dinner-related chores or prep for school from him, for example).

Dawn's problems are slightly different, but still follow the I Hate Kindergarten theme:

"My six year old daughter is a very shy girl until you get to know her, and she has gone back to school after the summer holidays tho she is getting upset about this. She cries just as the school door opens, not before and not at home . I really don't think she is getting bullied or anything like that, but i know if no one has asked her to play she thinks no one wants to play with her. How can i help? It is getting me so upset and at the same time angry."

Poor thing. It sounds like making some playdates with the other kids in her class is exactly what will fix this problem. If she has some time to play with another kid one-on-one after school, that kid will probably be more friendly to her during school. I'd try to figure out if there are any one or two of the kids she talks about in a positive way, and try to get them together after school or on the weekends.

Does anyone have suggestions, comments, sympathy, or commiseration for any of us? Anyone else hating Kindergarten? Anyone have an opinion on whether I should stick with the crappy teacher so my son can be with the other kid who's reading at his same level, or try to get him switched into another class (which I may not even be able to do)?

Comments

[Jen (yup, another one)]

I'm not sure what to tell you about switching classrooms... it's a hard fight to get it done, may set you up with the admin for future trouble, and may cause adjustment problems of its own even if you succeed. OTOH, he really doesn't sound like he fits with this teacher, and while every kid will encounter a bunch of teachers in his/her school career where there's a personality mismatch, it's rough if it happens in K. I'd say go with your gut on it, in the end.

However, I do TOTALLY want to commiserate with you and express bafflement at the 20 minutes of reading at dropoff bizarreness. I can't think of any teacher I've ever worked with who would WANT the parents to stick around - most of us just want them to GO so the kids can adjust and get the day started. Plus, it's so impossible for any parent, working or not - what if siblings have to get to preschool, or nap, or a doctor's appointment. What about the kids in before-school care? That just sounds insane. Is it a grade-wide policy or just that teacher? This I think is worth discussing with the teacher/administration regardless of what you decide re: classroom switching.

Kel & Dawn, I think Moxie's got the right idea about increasing structure in the rest of your son's life. The Y program sounds pretty alarming to me, though, and I think it may not be the place for him this year.

Dawn, I'd start by talking to the teacher, first to see what s/he's noticed going on with your daughter, and secondly to see if s/he can work with the kids on negotiating friendships and making all children feel welcome. ("You Can't Say You Can't Play" by Vivian Paley is a good read on this).

Good luck to everyone. Much of the school angst will calm down as time goes on, but it's no fun for the duration.

[Slim]

See if you can get him moved. A good teacher can make sure that all his/her students are challenged; a crappy teacher could screw up Doogie Howser's interest in school.

I would also engage in a little civil disobedience, with your son's cooperation. Tell the teacher that the extended goodbye is not serving him well (tragically, I suppose it's not appropriate to draw analogies to slowly removed Band-Aids? No?), so you have started doing 20 minutes of reading at home before you come to school and you will be doing a kinder, briefer goodbye at school. I don't generally approve of parents making up their own rules, but what the hell, you can't torture your kid just to show your support of following the rules.

It sounds as though Kel and her partner have a good plan in place and just need to survive the next few weeks. Really, the settling in process seems to take about a month for most kids I've heard about. I suspect that's about as comforting as telling a woman in mid-contraction that the average labor lasts howevermany hours, but really, you will get through this, and that plus a nanny instead of an unstructured program at the Y (assuming that's a definite plan?) should resolve things.

I wouldn't take away soccer unless he's a horror there. Kids need their endorphins. If nothing else, he'll fall asleep sooner and you can be reminded of how adorable he is when he's unconscious.

Dawn, you're describing me. I've got nothing, really, although I guess it might have helped if I'd lived somewhere with a neighborhood playground so my parents could have taught me the basics of social interaction with strangers. Although I was so shy even that might not have helped.

Finally, I would like to thank the school system I had growing up and the one my son now attends, because they were/are fantastic. I am hopting this discussion doesn't deteriorate into public school bashing. Please let the Moxie Magic work, please please please.

[Lily]

While I am (still) not a mom, I read this and it renewed all my fears of bringing a child into the school system. I had a horrible time in school (despite being relatively intelligent - or perhaps because), and can't imagine the frustration of sheparding a child through the madness.

I just wanted to make one comment - even as young as kindergarten, I remember my parents vocally critiquing my school, teachers, rules, education and classmates. Granted, they are highly critical people, but I remember going to school with a "this is stupid, I know better, perhaps I'll indulge you today" attitude which cast me as a snobby brat. I don't think I was hated by teachers, mostly because I was very meek, but it certainly bought me few friends.

As important as it is to share your concerns between yourselves, other parents, and the Moxieworld, I would just recommend that the kids never hear these comments. 6 is too young to handle the cognitive dissonance of it all.

[Amy]

Three things came immediately to my mind.

1.) 20-minute reading period? FUCK THAT. Excuse my language, but how long have we been practicing the "say goodbye then LEAVE" approach just to have a drawn-out departure? Plus, no you should not be late for work every day. It's bull crap. It would drive me nuts to "stick around" for twenty minutes, I would refuse.

2.) EXCUSE ME?! How much stuff does a KINDERGARTNER need?! Cripes! I don't have to buy that much supplies for either of my children (a box of KLEENEX for my kindergartner, and pencils etc. and a planner for my grade three-er). Utter crap.

and 3.) Get him switched. He's bored and confused from the sounds of it, and his teacher sucks. Or if you're up to it, talk directly to the teacher and tell her that this approach isn't working for him. Stand your ground and fight for your child. You do not want this to be the foundation/stepping stone for the rest of his schooling. He WILL remember.

***
The moms with the child in the Y-care: Speak to the director of the program. He needs structure, routine and compassion. Get it for him, or find other arrangements. He needs positive reinforcement and a safe environment.
***
The little girl's mom: I totally agree with planning some playdates. She needs familiar faces in the class, to build the confidence to approach these children for play!

[cat, galloping]

Moxie, switch him to one of the other classes if you can. Sweet and exuberant vs. bitchy? Quick, before all the other parents beat you to it!

(What would a SAHM do with younger kids during the 20 minute goodbye period?)

[jesse]

I am not quite caffeintaed enought yet to think through responses to all the issues, but I would agree with Slim's advice to Moxie to get El Chico moved. My mother, a teacher, negotiated my public school first grade class room for the reasons you've stated (I was put in a highly discplinary teacher's first grade class). She told the principal it was a bad fit for my temperment and had me moved to a "sweet, exuberant" teacher's classroom even before the first day. She continued to monitor and give input into to the rooms/teachers I was with each year through middle school. This was 35-ish years ago in rural Wisconsin, but I still feel that we have the right to ask our public school (as we would a private school) to have the flexibility to fit the child with the right teacher in order to learn. I also think its a great idea to tell her you are reading with El C at home before school, and, since he can read himself, he is ok to spend that time reading in the morning at school without you.

I think you will get a sense over time how open or resistant this particular administration is to collaboration with parents, and begin to build a relationship with them or think about other options.

[ABCD]

The one thing that comes to mind is sleep. When I worked in public schools (for 5 years as a speech pathologist), most kids weren't getting enough sleep and their behavior was terrible. I think 5 yo's are supposed to get about 11-12 hours per night. Aside from that, public school is supposed to teach to the middle. If your child falls much above, or below the curve, then they are out of luck. In kinder the expectation is that the child will learn their letters and sounds, then begin to learn to read. If a child is already reading, he just has to wait until the other kids catch up. It sucks. This is why we are homeschooling kinder. The stress of public school would kill me!

[sue]

My kids aren't in kindergarten yet (oldest is in preschool) but my advice would be to get him moved if at all possible. My vicarious experience (through friend's kids) is that if a teacher is already labeling kids (at least in her head) in the first week, it's not going to improve much. And it's not good if she isn't willing to challenge him academically - a friend had that problem with her child's teachers (through 2nd grade) and was repeatedly reprimanded (!) for giving him extra assignments at home. Apparently having smart kids caused more work for the teacher. It got so bad, she's trying to get him into a different school altogether.

I say switch, or at least try!

[robin]

My baby is nowhere near kindergarten but I have to comment about that drop-off period. WTF?!? My friend's daughter just started preschool and the parents aren't allowed to come inside. For the first week or so the teachers come out and welcome the kids *at the car* and walk them inside. THAT'S the way to do it.

[Kinneret]

Yeah, the dropoff period? I'd say "I'm sorry, that doesn't work for us for the following reasons" and express my concerns. Also, I'd switch your son out of mean, bitchy teacher's class. Not a good fit. Why do certain people like to power trip over small ones? I don't get it.

Good luck!!!

[Molly]

Oh Moxie, this is just awful. Poor guy. Bad teachers are a parent's worst nightmare, and probably an inevitable experience at some point in every child's academic career, but to have it happen right out of the gate is just awful.

Yes, definitely get him out of there. And start talking and squacking about it now. You've got to make your case to the powers that be. So start building your case. Good luck. Keep us posted!

[rudyinparis]

As a child of retired public schoolteachers, I'm supportive to the point of fanaticism on the issue of public schools... That said, Eldest won't even START kindergarten for two more years and I get queasy just thinking about it. So in response to this posting, I officially am sticking my fingers in my ears and humming loudly.

[Helen]

I'd flat-out refuse the 20 minutes of reading. You have to get to work, period. And if you were a SAHM, you have to take care of your kindergardener's younger brother, period. Or you have errands or whatever. You simply are not available after the drop-off (except in case of emergency, of course).

Are all the parents dropping their kids off women? Can your husband do the drop-off? Unfortunately, sometimes the complaints of men/fathers are taken more seriously. And I wonder if a man would be willing sit with his child for 20 minutes after the drop-off, if it was making the dad late and the kid stressed. I think a man would just say, Hey, sorry, gotta get to work/get my younger child back home/etc.

I'd try to get your son switched. Sounds like this situation is not working.

Good luck with this! I'm sorry it's been a rough transition.

[Shandra]

I'm obviously not familiar with parenting a kindergartener yet but from my brief stint as an ed assistant I really have to agree with this:

"I still feel that we have the right to ask our public school (as we would a private school) to have the flexibility to fit the child with the right teacher in order to learn."

There will be times that kids have to stay with teachers that aren't a great fit, but if there's a possibility to make a match, it makes a big difference. Not all kids learn the same way and not all teachers teach the same way and that's just fine... but no reason not to try to get them lined up.

Kel - the Y programme sounds crazy to me. I do wonder if helping him set his own routines would help, like give him a watch and help him to sort of learn to take 5 minutes to calm down here and there?

[flea]

I just wanted to post what a good transition to public school kindergarten can look like (pre-K in our case). We have a 'sweet exuberant' teacher and so far Casper seems to like school a lot. She did complain one day - I think the first full day - about the rules. I think they spent the whole day going over what they couldn't do - but the only rule I got from her was "don't poke things into the guinea pig cage" which seems like a good one! She can't read (just turned 4) and the class is Montessori so there is a focus on assessing the skills and abilities of each child individually and letting the work at their own pace which I love. At this age, though, I feel like the most important thing is that the child likes school - I will worry about actually learning anything later. I will say that since Casper has been in full-time daycare some of the rules are less of a change for her. A friend who is making the same transition had only been in a very small preschool and the whole experience of lining up to walk down the halls, being quiet, etc. has been a big change for her and very stressful!

We do have the usual big public school bureaucratic stuff - two non-overlapping lists of things to buy, that sort of thing. But IME most large institutions have these sorts of communication problems, so one sighs and tries not to take disorganization and mild incompetence personally.

[AmyinMotown]

I hate preschool. I'm developing strong concerns about the teachers not helping along social interactions. Maggie is Jane Friendly but doesn't always get social cues, and she's also wayyyy taller and more active than the girls in her class, so I am noticing she seems to be left by herself a lot and the teachers don't intervene when kids are flat-out mean. Also, her best buddy, a boy, moved away recently. It's not helping the normal adjustment that needs to happen and just generally makes me sad.

But that's me. As far as your problem--get him moved. I still remember my mean first grade teacher and how badly that affected me. He sounds like an awfully bright kid and could do great things with the rght teacher to help, but it woud be a shame if he were turned off to school at such a young age.

[Sarah]

I'd second the switching classes if you can. I didn't listen to my gut when my daughter started Montessori kindergarten and so we had three years of a teacher who just wasn't the right fit. We also had the trauma at drop-off--I wasn't allowed in the room. Md daughter had been in day care. Drop-off was not much of a problem if I had 2-3 minutes to walk her in.

Certainly not 20 minutes--that's too long!

We've moved and she started 1st grade in a traditional school and I am so relieved that all of my transition from Montessori to traditional fears have not come true.

Good luck. Kindergarten (all three years of it) sucked in my view. She did learn a zillion things, but she was not nearly happy enough.

For Dawn's daughter--as a socially unsure person myself, if Dawn doesn't know any of the parents yet (I assume because wouldn't her daughter know some of these kids if they were already socially acquainted?), how is Dawn supposed to set up playdates? I have this nagging sense that I should be setting up playdates too, since we're new, but my daughter doesn't even know all of her classmates names yet, much less a last name I could use to look up a phone number.

[hedra]

GAH! I so feel for all of you. No time to edit, deadline today, so this will be unfortunately long (!!!!!!!) and rambly, I bet.

My first advice is to get on board with the teacher(s) ASAP. I mean, start being the nice-but-pesty uber-supportive, how can I help parent. Don't make suggestions right off of what they should do, but ask for their expertise in helping YOU help the kid in their adjustment. Yep, I'm saying 'suck up' - but in a nice, self-respecting, intellectual smart-mom way. Teachers seldom get any kudos for their expertise (less from new parents to the classroom), and tend to get a lot of being told how to do things to make the world work for child X or Y. They don't get a lot of respectful cooperative problem solving trying to make the classroom work for ALL the kids. Try it, I find it does work, most of the time.

My instinctive gut reaction for Moxie is to MOVE HIM. And move him soon. I'll explore that a bit, but it may just be instant push-back... The fit with the teacher is an issue, and I've seen even the very best teachers pull crap on kids because they have a set expectation about them from the beginning of the year. A K teacher that hasn't figured out in over a week that a child can read is NOT PAYING ATTENTION, IMHO. And is not sensitive enough or attuned enough for a child who doesn't fit the most common mold, or who is an 'outlier' in the set of kids they're clumped with. He's going to be outside the box, and she lives inside it. Without a soft touch and/or some serious problem-solving, I'd be afraid there'd be an issue all freakin' year long, and on top of that, maybe be carry over of 'not liking school' for the beginning of next year (don't get caught up in the 'forever' fear just yet). So yeah, try the problem-solving, but ... well, I'm not comfy with the scenario. At K, the routine should still be adaptable enough that it can flex to the kids in that classroom, rather than forcing all the kids to adapt to it. Talk in terms of making sure the classroom experience is coherent for ALL the kids, and if he's not a good fit for the GROUP (which takes the teacher's ego out of it), then perhaps a different class may be more appropriate.

Oh, and for all - don't expect a program to magically develop to support the fluent readers or academically advanced kids in the class. The vast majority of teachers have taken no more than 3 credits related to teaching the academically gifted and talented, and rarely grasp even the different approaches that are helpful for the different levels of talent. Most think that if they just let them ride, they'll go along getting good grades because they're smart, or fail if they're lazy even if smart. Most don't know that frustration with the pace (NEVER EVER SAY BOREDOM!) and depth of the materials causes huge behavior problems, or if they've been told they forgot or don't beleive it. Oh, and reiterating the boredom issue - the class is never BORING (no matter how that expresses) - the underlying issue is frustration. Boredom, like anger (and hate), is a secondary feeling, which follows a primary one, usually fear, loneliness, embarassment, confusion, or so forth. Feeling frustrated by the pace or depth of materials, that is something that can be solved by the teacher, and gives the impression that she can create joy for the child with a few small changes. Feeling bored is just insulting to the teacher, and tends to create resistance to trying to resolve the problem (the 'yeah, well bite me' reaction). But get them clear on the issue being level, depth, pace, and they have a box to put it in. My nephew is a case in point. The K teacher called the parents in to say that he was causing problems in class, during reading time. She'd been told he was SMART, but ... well, she said he wouldn't pay attention, and was disrupting class during reading circle by going off and playing pretend baseball by himself. His dad responded that at home, he was reading Harry Potter. The teacher (who was fairly bright) said, 'oh! I just need to read something more challenging to him, the books are below his level!' to which his dad again shot back... 'no, he's reading that TO HIMSELF. We're not reading it to him.' OH. Click. Got it. Wrong level, by about a mile. He got to go read for himself by himself, separately, during that time, instead. Behavior problems vanished. Huh. Go figure.

Moxie, seriously, address the read-to-the-child time. Take that as a separate issue, even though it is related to the 'frustration' of the pace/depth/level. The teacher is expecting K behaviors, and in K, pre-readers really like to be read to, as a rule. HOWEVER, this does not seem to be working well for him (duh). Bringing that to her as a problem, for HER to help with, as it is HER classroom (even though your child), that's first avenue to try. She may be suppressive because she thinks the problem is one of excess energy or something, rather than one of frustration with being treated as less than he is. It is disrespectful and feels, well, undignified. Kids will resist that even more than they will the power/authority/structure issues. (My sister being another case in point. She attended a preschool just to acclimate to school in general before starting at a gifted program. The teacher called my mom for a meeting because she thought my sister was 'retarded' - because she refused to sing the ABC Song. Which was beneath my sister's dignity, since she was reading on her own, and had been since she was just about 3, IIRC. That undignified thing is definitely a player for some kids! I'd want to flee, too!).

Kel and Dawn - As for the Montessori-to-Public-K switch, couple of notes. 1) it can take up to a year for a child to adapt to the culture change from Montessori to 'traditional' classroom function. So keep that in mind and take the transition gently and don't expect it to be easy or fast - we're talking 9-12 months, really. 2) The kid on kid violence NEEDS to be addressed. That's the basis for bullying. If they cannot manage it in VERY short order, then IMHO, you may need to find something else for him for before/after. He's used to respect, which is something Montessori is great at instilling (they take a nice long track for it, but they don't expect 'kids will be kids' roughness but 'kids are capable of this' grace and kindness). Self-test against safe-respectful-kind, and IMHO, the situation he's in fails all three -- the safe may be marginally okay physically, but it doesn't seem to be psychologically.

I will advise to avoid like crazy being rigid with the suppression of the behavior - this is acting out, and if you put a lid on it, it will only come out at you sideways. It needs to be let out cleanly, clearly, and quickly. Active listening (try Parent Effectiveness Training or Raising our Children, Raising Ourselves books, one, the other, or both) should be IMMENSELY useful. Punishments/consequences will NOT make a dent, because the problem is not with his desire to be good, but with his skills and abilities to handle the situation in which he finds himself. He needs an outlet for his feelings, a safe haven for the distress (and at this age, the Parent Effeectiveness Training info on how to NOT respond is incredibly useful, thought the SALVE approach in the other book is also really good), PLUS some help figuring out how to handle the problems he's facing. Just telling him not to do that anymore (and/or getting his promises to try harder, and/or making sure he knows how sad he'll be if he does it again) isn't any more useful than asking someone to try not to swerve when they see a car coming at them going the wrong way at 90 miles per hour. In the moment, with the adrenaline pumping, you have to already have an alternate plan of what to do, and better if you have some practice time, reinforcement, and some ideas of alternate options if option 1 doesn't fly. He's been dropped into professional stunt driving when he's been used to suburban street driving, so to speak. Expecting him to just get with the program isn't enough. It may even be unfair. Not that I don't know the intense urge to just MAKE THEM STOP. BTDT, doesn't really work. But provide the skills, work out the emotional thorns (or rather, let them work them out but provide a safe space to do so), and expect it to take some time to practice before the skills really come on line... that seems to work. Good luck.

Dawn, I think the problem is similar here - my bet is that she's feeling a lack of skills, not just the pain of being 'unpopular' so far. Add in expectations set that she'd be well-liked, etc. (as all kids expect), and... ouch. She's coming from a place where she had friends, and had them long enough that she likely barely remembers the process of making friends. Making friends takes time, and it takes being willing to be herself even if that means no instant friendliness. And that's HARD at 6. Reassuring her that she has the makings of a good friend, that she knows what it means to be friends, that she's kind, thoughtful, sensitive to others, etc. (whatever), and that these things take time for some kids to grow up enough to notice, that may help a little. Reminding her how long it can take to become friends, and how rare it is to truly become friends instantly with someone... that may help reality check. But don't focus on the explaining, work on the problem-solving, and again on letting her get her feelings out safely.

I'm going nuts on the Parent Effectiveness Training book I know - it isn't perfect, but the complete re-arrangement of my observations and expectations for my kids has been amazing - I expect them to be able to do different things than I had before, and recognize more easily when they're facing a problem for which they lack skills or experience. I'm seeing that they're willing to problem solve more, if I just expect them to be able to. We're not anywhere like perfect (either my side, or theirs), but I seem to be getting less carryover angst, acting out, etc. And my own frustration level and 'adopted pain' from their difficulties has eased as well.

Anyway, those are my general thoughts. I've been through K startup twice, both with Montessori. We love Montessori for K (the 'payoff year', IMHO - the leadership year, etc.). But it is expensive, and if they're going to be in K-to-whatever public school, and that's paid out of taxes... well, we're considering whether we send the girls to the Charter K when their turns come, instead of going through Montessori (with the tuition) for that last year. WHich means that I have to prepare myself for dealing with the teachers, the structure, and a new classroom context. Whee. Ugh. I don't expect to hate it, but I so am not looking forward to to the process of collaborative problem solving with a new set of teachers, either. I've already done that part here! WAAAAH! But it will be do it at K, or at 1st, and one extra year out of 12 isn't that much.

Hang in there. Hopefully some collaboration with the teacher(s) will provide some releif all around. But if it doesn't, don't just hang out and hope that their needs will be met without taking more drastic action. We're their advocates, and involved parenting means sometimes taking a big jump.

I will say that as a *parent* the angst about the early school experiences is as intense as the decisions about circumcising/breastfeeding/solids/immunizations, etc. It feels like it could change the entire course of their lives, and seems irreparable if it was somehow the wrong choice, and it seems 'all our fault' if it doesn't go well. So it really cuts us deep when it doesn't seem to be working well. But hey, in this, in general, we lack the skills to assess and adapt and problem-solve as well. We're tossed into the problem with relatively few skills for it, too. So, having been there a bit, I'll pass on that no matter how often people will tell you that you MUST set them up from the start to love learning/school, they are more resilient *there* than we tend to expect, too. Far worse (IMHO) is when the parents/family begin to expect the child to hate school, and sets up struggles on that front as a result. THAT part is, IMHO, a bit more critical. A school year is a long time, but it is not forever. Loving to learn is functionally inborn in all humans. It is pretty hard to stamp out completely. Giving even a little opening can make a huge difference, and even though I felt like an outsider my entire K year, and was isolated and scared of my teacher 1st grade, and had an intensely awful second grade teacher (who used open shame/humiliation tactics to try to control me), I never lost my love of learning. I just learned that some teachers suck, and some are fine for me but not for others, and some rot for me but are fine for others, and some are good one year, but bad the next (or vice-versa) due to factors outside my control. These kids will likely learn the same thing, over time. Not that we want them to be stuck with the bad fits, but don't get *yourselves* caught in the fear that they will only learn to hate school (or any of the other associated fears), because that just makes it harder to solve the functional problems. BTDT, too. Over-identified from my own issues, got tangled up in G's experience, and had the good fortune to have G's teacher kindly but firmly ask me to extract my own experiences from my child's, and keep mine separate rather than seeing them where they were not, and instead just handle what was going on with G. SUPER uncomfortable conversation, but she was right, and once I separated my own issues/problems out, I found that *I* had a few problems with the program, and my child had a few problems with the program, and both could be addressed with a simple conversation, but they were totally separate problems, neither of which would be solved by the approach I was taking when I thought they were the same problem in combined form.

Ugh, not sure if that made sense. But ... well, I feel for ya. My stomach was in knots reading all those in series. Best of luck all around.

[Lisa V]

What is up with a 20 minutes drop off routine? Is this imposed by the teacher or ElChico?

My only suggestion is to have some sort of special "I tried my best" pick-up routine. Include all the things you want him to accomplish to get it.

Other than that, I am clueless. My kids didn't have teachers they didn't love until high school. They always go into class willingly. Probably to get away from me. Be a bigger jerk at home, and they can't wait to escape you :).

[hedra]

Oh, and my comment on gifted/talented training for teachers applies to private/public/whatever equally. There's just too much content required for the degrees to cover that in depth, unless a teacher plans to specialize in it.

[Maura]

I second Hedra's comments wholeheartedly, particularly the boredom v. frustration terminology. It makes a world of difference to talk about frustration w/pacing versus boredom -- pacing can be adjusted, but boredom implies that teachers should be entertainers and gets people's hackles up unnecessarily.

As for the bitchy, princessy teacher -- can you give an example of her "scolding and mean rigidity"? Those are really strong words to be using so early on in the schoolyear...and just as kids sometimes can make bad first impressions and be unfairly labeled by teachers, so can teachers. It could be that stress and inexperience are causing her to be on edge and that she will warm up once she is more comfortable and a couple of weeks go by.

You haven't mentioned if you have tried to ask for a conference with her, both to get to know her and to share your concerns with her.

If she's truly downright mean, I suspect your son is reacting to her meanness more than the "routine"...as a warm, fun, kind teacher can make even a rigid routine comfortable and fun for kids. But your "princessy" label for her made me think this teacher may be very young, and she could be masking her fear, inexperience, and stress with a veneer of overconfidence and even bitchiness in front of parents that may not reflect how she is when she's alone with students.

If you have a private conference with the teacher and you either found her completely unresponsive/inapproachable/mean or after a week after meeting with her you don't see any improvement in her interaction with your son, I'd definitely take your concerns to the principal and possibly request a switch based on the teacher not being a "good fit" for your son.

As for the 20-minute reading time: that's just CRAZY TALK! I've never even heard of such a thing. It seems to be based on the assumption that parents don't read to kids at home, so the school will force them to do it at school. But as other commenters have said, that's not only unreasonable to expect of working parents during a busy morning, it's not even developmentally appropriate in terms of a smooth transition to kindergarten. Maybe you can make friends with other parents and come together in opposition to this? I imagine you're not the only one for whom this arrangement doesn't work well.

[Cathy]

My suggestion for Dawn's shy daughter is to do some rehearsal with her to help her figure out how to make new friends. Dawn can pretend to be the potential friend and the daughter can practice some opening lines - "Can I play too?" or what have you.

[caramama]

Moxie: When I was in 2nd grade, I absolutely hated the teacher and it made it tough to go to school. She was mean and showed clear favoritism, and I was not thriving regardless of some friends being in the same class. My mom went to the administration and fought for me to be able to switch classes. I was worried that it would look like I couldn't handle the other class or something, but once I was in the other class, I did great. I thrived and was challenged and enjoyed school again. It was truly worth it to switch the classes, and that was the only year I had to do something like that and it was truly because of the teacher, not my ability to adjust. I highly recommend that you do this if you believe your son will do better with the other teacher.

I also agree 100% with the advice Slim gives about reading at home and telling the teacher that you aren't staying. It sounds like the kind of advice Moxie would give someone who wrote in with this problem! ;-) (I also love Slim's Doogie Howser reference!!)

Kel and Dawn: I'm currently reading Playful Parenting, by Laurence Cohen. Although we are not yet close to school with the Pumpkin, I can see that this book could be very beneficial for you to use play as a way to get your kids to work on their acting out/shyness. It's a really great read.

[Julie]

I haven't had time to read the other responses yet, but wanted to touch on a couple things:

It does sound like this is a bad match for your kid Moxie......but I know that administrators will most likely NOT move your kid to another class so soon - without trying some other things first. They have to take this stance, or there would be pandemonium in the office for the first month of school. Most of the time, after a week or two, parents who were panicked at the beginning of the year are fine and have forgotten that they wanted their kid moved. HOWEVER, this does sound like a bad match and you should start to take initiative now. I suggest doing the following:
1- set up a meeting with your son's teacher asap to talk about some of the difficulty he is having. Most teachers - especially K teachers - want this transition to be as smooth as possible and will work with you to address your concerns.
2- If you don't get the kind of collaboration you would like from the teacher (and I'm guessing from her rigidity that you won't) set up a meeting with the principal to discuss your concerns and your options for what El C needs as a learner. Make sure you keep your comments focused on his learning style, his needs as a learner blah blah blah. Stay away from criticizing the teacher or labeling the teacher as bad or rigid. Make it about what is best for your child's educational success.

Hopefully you can sort out your differences and El C won't have to switch classes. The beginning of the school year is stressful for teachers - even K teachers now with assessing kids and all the other demands NCLB has placed on all of us. Rigidity is not a bad thing as long as there is a reason behind it - and a willingness to adjust when needed. Not sure if your teacher has this willingness or not. Dig a little deeper, gather more information and then advocate for your kid.

As for the 20 minute reading period....that is the new thing. Many teachers are doing this as a way to INCLUDE parents, get them into the schools...and in diverse economic communities a way to touch base with all stakeholders. If it's not working for you, the teacher SHOULD accommodate you. Talk to her about some modifications that might suit your needs better. Suggest that El C read to other kids (a way to plug his reading ability in a more subtle way) as a way for him to ease into his day.

Good luck!!!!!

[elizabeth]

OK I admit I did not finish reading all of your post or any of the comments but I will say this SWITCH your child. Go with your instinct. I am the mother of 9 and 10 year old boys and my 9 year old got into trouble constantly. For being a boy. He also read at higher level than most of the other kids (and I know this because his older brother was in Reading Recovery so I was very familiar with the reading levels)and the teacher could not see this. It was a frustrating time. She went out on maternity leave and the sub was great. No issues at all then. Do all the other classes require you to stay for 20 mins? Is this a new teacher? I can't imagine that requirement will fly for long. Too hard for anyone to do. Parents are their children's best advocate and sounds to me like you cannot ignore/explain this change in your child's behavior other than it is school related and teacher related. Go in and have a meeting. See if the format is going to change soon. Be patient but not too patient. If nothing changes then request a switch now. Good luck. Welcome to elementary school.

[Amy]

Okay, I'm at work and should soooo be working instead of reading this blog... but want to weigh in on the K issue. Both my kids attended Montessori before starting Kindergarten. It took my son about 6 weeks to get used to the new routine (sitting in desks, not getting to choose work, etc.). He clearly struggled with the transition and I found keeping in close contact with his teacher to be effective. He's now in 2nd grade and loves school and is doing just fine. My daughter started Kindergarten this year and is not having the same post-Montessori issues her brother had, but is clearly having some adjustment issues as she cries each morning (a new K development). She really loves to learn and is, I think, struggling with not being the master of her own day in the way she was at Montessori school. Again, good communication with the teacher about what you see and hear at home is key.

One last point about not being able to get kids to talk about their days. My son HATES to tell me about his day and his sister isn't much better. I've decided to focus on what they like about their day as a way to get them to talk in the car on the way home from school. "How many recesses did you get today? With whom did you play? What did you play? How was lunch? Did you get to keep all your apples today?" (they have an apple chart for behavior). While what I really want to know is what they learned during the day, they seem unable to talk about this. But at least in telling me about recess and lunch I tend to get the pertinent stories b/c inevitably they'll also report other important happenings once they get talking.

[sweetisu]

Dude, you guys are scaring me! My oldest is going to K next year.

Moxie, I would try and switch him to a different teacher, if possible. If not, is there a way to have him attend a different school entirely? Or go above the nasty teacher's head and talk to her supervisor? That 20 minute thing is nuts. I have not heard of that from any parents before.

And WHY IN THE $%^&$#% do teachers/schools ask for supplies? Yes OK fine, schools have limited funds blahblah. But how about what moxie suggests, getting money from the parents so that they don't have to run to Target/Wal-mart in herds just so they can round up every single thing on the damn list. It's a huge waste of everyone's time, when in fact it can be done more efficiently. If teachers won't be willing to do it, I'm sure at least ONE parent from the class would be willing to take on the task! Sheesh.

I kid you not, I went to the elementary school's website for our district, the supply list includes SHARPENED #2 pencils, 35mm FILM, SPECIFIED type/size crayons, and the list goes on.. oh yes and scissors. 18 items in all (some multiple sets, like 15 gluesticks...)

Now I would be curious what happens to the scissors at the end of the school year. Do the school keep it, or does it get returned to the students? I'm not nitpicking here, just genuinely curious.

[wavybrains]

I'd switch schools/classrooms. From personal experience, a bad kindergarten year can really set the tone for the rest of elementary school. I also had a teacher who wasn't hip to the fact that I could read, and just plain didn't seem to like me b/c I didn't fit in well with her structure. It impacted me both socially and academically. I've talked to many others with similar experiences. It sounds like you are trying to combat any social issues with the playdates, but I'd still think seriously about making a change. One thing to consider--there may be some late openings or mid-year openings at a charter or magnet school b/c people move or change their minds. I know that Julia over at julia.typepad.com found a multi-year kindergarten (K &1st combined), and this seems to be working well for her son who's more advanced academically.

[Christiana]

I'm currently pregnant with my first child, so I have no first hand advice, but I am totally with the above commenters on the confusion on the 20-min reading time (that sounds INSANE) and would love to hear what the motivation for that is (the teacher? the school policy?) and would also encourage you to try and have him moved. All the teachers I know would be able and willing to try and motivate a more advanced student even if he was the only one. I loved kindergarten as a child (including my teacher who was stringent, but not uncompassionate).

I would agree with the playdates for the shy child - I was like that when I was in pre-school (grew out of it by the time I was 5 or 6 though) and my mom trying to socialize me more with other kids really helped me get into the groove of school.

I have no advice about the Y program since I know very little about afterschool programs. My mom applied the 2 for 1 policy for trouble making as I was growing up - any trouble I got in at school bought me that punishment at school and punishment at home as well. My thoughts are to nip it now since you don't want your son to be labeled as a troublemaker for the next 6 years, etc.

[enu]

Kindergarteners who can read are trouble, trouble, trouble in many kindergarten classrooms. I'm sure most K teachers cringe at the sight of one ;-)

The whole year revolves around reading readiness within the context of getting used to those things that make up knowing how to get along in school. You already know how to read, it all seems pretty "why the h*ll am I here." And playing along with the how to be in school stuff seems pointless when there's nothing new going on learning-wise.

My non-reader adored kindergarten. My stealth reader? OMG, worst year evah (to date, perhaps I should not tempt providence!)

We are still working on the going-along-with-curriculum-you-think-is-idiotic problem. I have asked her to set "sucking up" as a goal for this academic year ;-)

[hedra]

Oh, for getting kids to talk...

1) Talk at dinner. Just after school is too soon.

2) Buy-in on talking at all. G was done with school when he left the building. Period. We discussed this, and came up with that he would tell me one thing at bedtime, but it would be of his choosing. I had to deal.

3) Reframe the question. We have a series of ones we switch between. "What was your favorite part of today?" "What was your favorite work?" "What was the most challenging thing you did today?" "What were you the most proud of today?" (phrase by age - we started with 'what did you succeed at today that you didn't think you could do that well?') - oh, and the adults get to play, too. It's nice to go round the table at dinner and ask everyone. Phrasing is everything. :)

Oh, and supplies... gah. We actually liked buying them. Now, it is $50 for one kid, and $100 EACH for the other three! Okay, the other three that also covers a lot of the things we'd have made/bought for school, like food/supplies for parties and events (oh, and grandparents day... which they do toward the end of the year, IIRC, which makes so much more sense than early in the year!). So... okay, I can deal. But ouchie dealing. Having seen scissors that were used a full year in school, I bet they discard most of them... the 'supplies cost' approach IMHO means they can ditch only the amount that are dead, and upgrade the supplies or add something extra if they have enough leftovers from the previous year. I don't mind that at all. Certainly one year, getting the colored pencils back totally unused was an annoyance. Sigh. (Not sure that all schools return stuff, but that one did.)

[Carla Hinkle]

How sad to think that your son is learning to hate school! That sounds awful.

I agree that if the drawn-out good bye isn't working for you/him, you should talk to the teacher about skipping it.

Also i think the idea of setting up a parent-teacher conference pronto is a great idea, as well as a little well-placed sucking up. If El C doesn't get moved, you want to be in a position to make the best of things.

[Summer]

All I can say is that this post is making me feel very, very lucky, and grateful that my son is in a kindergarten class that's a good fit for him.

Or maybe I can find more to say. I usually do.

My son, though he's the youngest in his class, is the only one who is able to read fluently. I had the chance to chat extensively with his assistant teacher during a field trip on Friday, and she told me that the next-best reader in the class is still at the sight-reading a few words and sounding other words out stage. It would be nice if there was another reader in the class, but honestly, I don't think it matters that much. A good teacher will find ways to craft the activity to match a child's ability. In our case, it looks like his teachers ask him to read things (instructions, for example, or the names of animals at the zoo) so he's using his reading skills without making a big deal of it.

It feels odd to be offering advice to Moxie, but I agree with the others, do try to switch your son into a class that is better suited to him. And that 20 minute reading thing is ridiculous... at our school, we're asked to get our kids to school a bit early (10-15 minutes before the official start time of 8) so they have time to settle in before school starts, BUT they want the parents to get out of the classroom as soon as possible. It seems like the kids get confused about who is in charge, Mama or Teacher, so it's best to clear out and let the teachers take over. We are told to read with our children for at least 20 minutes every day, and we have to keep a reading log. The morning routine you describe sounds like they're trying to FORCE parents to read for the (likely federally mandated) 20 minutes a day.

[Julie]

Moxie, the k/1 multiage class sounds like a great solution as well....again focusing on what would be best for HIS learning style/pace, not focused at all on the teachers shortcomings. Set a conference with the teacher to see how she plans to challenge him/differentiate her instruction to accommodate his needs.....if you don't get anywhere, talk with the principal of the school. The first thing the P will ask you is "Have you talked with his teacher about this yet?" and you want to be able to say "yes, and here is what we talked about, here is what happened, and here is what my child needs to be successful."

If you can get into a multiage (not all schools have them), that sounds fantastic. Having taught one for many years, it can be a magical experience if done properly.

[Sheryl]

I would say definitely schedule a conference with the teacher before you approach the administration about switching classes. When I was teaching, nothing would tick me off more than parents who went to the pricipal with an issue with me before talking with me directly. Fortunately, I had a good pricipal who wouldn't generally talk to parents about issues unless they came to the teacher, but not all principals are like that. Plus, teachers gossip about parents, just like parents gossip about teachers. You don't want to gain the reputation of being a bitch with the new teacher if that's what ends up happening.

And please make sure the teacher knows your son can read. I know other posters have said that the teacher should have noticed it by now, but, to give her the benefit of the doubt, her attention is being pulled in 20 different directions (or however many kids are in the class) at once. If she knows what he is capbable of, she may be able to have some alternative assignments/projects/whatever for him to work on if he finishes his work early (such as getting a book from the classroom library (and if she doesn't have one of those, talk to her about that, too). All teachers at that level should have that anyway, but they don't always.

Also, as much as I am usually opposed to testing kids this young, you may want to have his intelligence evaluated soon (the principal or guidance counselor - if there is one - can help with this). Most public school systems require IQ testing in order to access Gifted/Talented resources, which he may need (some districts start G/T in K, but a lot don't start until 1st grade). My parents didn't find that out until I was in 7th grade, which resulted in lots and lots of boredom and me making adjustments to the curriculum myself in elementary school (reading ahead, writing stories, etc).

The point of all this rambling is that how critical it is to keep an open communication with teachers. You may end up determining that this teacher is not a good fit for your son, and that he should be transferred, but if you try to work it out first, your reputation with future teachers will be much better than if you go to the administration first. And believe me, that matters.

[Julie]

Again, the 20 minute reading-with-your-kid thing has been implemented in many schools....I've seen it a lot out here in CA in communities that are socio-economically diverse. Many lower-income families do not feel connected to school, cannot attend the plays/student-as-teacher days/family activities etc. throughout the year that conflict with work (not that this doesn't conflict with work).....so it's a way teachers can connect with parents, make them feel WELCOME in the classroom, create a community of learners all working together and valuing education in general, etc.

It sounds to me like Moxie's teacher (in her wonderfully rigid and militant way) has made this feel/sound like a requirement and has robbed the activity of it's intended purpose. Too bad. I have met many parents who say they enjoy this part of the day with their children. However.....it would feel redundant to me as well since all we do at home (per A's request) is read books together.

I will be very curious to hear what the teacher has to say for herself in explaining her program and teaching philosophy. Please keep us updated!

[Florabora]

To the second poster - I don't have first hand experience with this (since mine's not 1 yet), but I know my nephew's behavior improved dramatically when he was involved with sports afterschool/weekend at that age. Please keep him in the sports program! It was amazing how bad he started to behave once the fall sports were over. My sister figured out that they needed to keep him in some sort of afterschool sports thing nearly year-round for him not to "act up" as much during the day.

good luck to everyone!

[Jenni]

I'm sorry to say that I was upset by the tone of Moxie's post. By day 6, the teacher hasn't figured out her son can read? Why not tell her then? Why make it a game? Communication is always the key and as many have advocated, it would be good to set up a meeting with the teacher. Talk about her concerns, your concerns and come to a reasonable plan. If, after a given time period, it's still not working, then go to plan B, talk to her mentor, supervisor, principal, what have you. Show your child the proper way to deal with conflict, don't escalate before it's appropriate.

[sheryl]

Oh, and I forgot to say - if that 20 minute reading thing is a grade-wide or school-wide policy, definitely go to the pricipal on that one. That's just crazy!

[newjen]

We had the drop-off reading time at our school, too -- maybe all nyc public Ks do it? I just had to explain to my son that sometimes I / his mom couldn't stay because we had to be at work. Once I knew some of the other parents, I tried to ask one to include my son in their reading, but by the end of the year my son was fine looking at books alone when we could not stay. One of the greatest joys of 1st grade this year is just dropping him at the school doors and watching our big boy walk into school on his own!

[Lisa]

I'm not there yet as a parent, but: as a child, my experience in an (otherwise mediocre) public elementary school was so much better because my mom researched teachers, and put on gentle, effective pressure each year to make sure I got the ones that seemed a good match for my temperament. The two years it didn't work, I was bored and frustrated. Otherwisse, i loved school.

Also, I'd like to stress how important it is to find K and 1st-grade teachers who are excited to work with early readers. I had a lovely kindergarten teacher who went so far as to buy me big-kid chapter books for my birthday. I was sooo flattered, and adored her even more - "you *understand* me!"

[Lisa]

I'm not there yet as a parent, but: as a child, my experience in an (otherwise mediocre) public elementary school was so much better because my mom researched teachers, and put on gentle, effective pressure each year to make sure I got the ones that seemed a good match for my temperament. The two years it didn't work, I was bored and frustrated. Otherwise, I loved school.

Also, I'd like to stress how important it is to find K and 1st-grade teachers who are excited to work with early readers. I had a lovely kindergarten teacher who went so far as to buy me big-kid chapter books for my birthday. I was sooo flattered, and adored her even more - "you *understand* me!"

[Jean]

This is really speaking to me, as we're starting the private/public K debate with our older child now (she's in preK this year). The plan had always been public, but for preschool we had to go private (late fall birthday) and public preK costs money too, so why not stay where we are.

She's already reading, so I am worried about the frustration with material. I don't think she's true GT, merely a high achiever, based on my years of teaching and what I've read. So we'll be stuck dealing with the situation of multi-levels in one room. I wish I could say that teaching to the middle was a myth, but it wasn't in my 16yrs. Unfortunately the admins care more about not having anyone fail, no matter what they do or do not do, than how many are actually learning/mastering skills and concepts. Until it comes to the standardized state test, of course.

I was also an early reader, so I learned to always have a book with me to read when I finished my work. Being a goody-two-shoes kept me out of trouble. So I'll try to work that angle, with the teacher's understanding, as much as we can with M.

I second the posters who suggested talking to the teacher first. Admins will listen faster and better if you "follow the chain of command" so to speak. And I completely agree with the disbelief over the 20 min reading time. I would suggest that you offer to do a weekly reading log, where you write down what you read with him and what he reads alone. That will document how much he's reading but also the reading and comprehension level he is working on.

I agree with trying to hold onto soccer for the first mom as long as possible, for reasons previously stated. As for Dawn, I feel for your little girl. I was also painfully shy as a child. My mom tried some play dates, forced ones, with one of the bully ringleaders in 2nd grade, and it was awful. Make sure to ask your child if she's enjoying these before you continue them. Otherwise it just extends the torment to home as well as all day at school.

I hope the school year improves for all of you.

[dregina]

Another teacher chiming in to say that the 20 minute drop off policy sounds batshit crazy to me. I mean, I've worked with kids in the past who needed their transitions to be slow and attentive, but by and large most kids are fine, or do better, with a quick dropoff. Not to mention the timesuck element for the parents involved. Thumbs down.

Some teachers conciously start off their year strictstrictstrict, to make an impression on the children that they are To Be Listened To. (I did this, but God, I hope no one ever described me as nasty...honestly, Moxie, that word gave me pause.) This lady might chill out over the next few weeks. The silver lining is the chance you have to model to your kid that we give people we don't like second and third chances, that we try different approaches and let time tell if our first impressions are right. Is there anyone else he hated at first that he ended up liking? You could tell that story back to him, might help.

All that being said, if you give this woman a few more chances and a little more time, and the word nasty still comes to mind when you think of her? Move him. Children should not be left with nasty people, right?

[Paula]

Just a quick response to the Y program thing: I tried that with my son a few times and ended up withdrawing him every time. Even from the more "educationally focused" program they offered when he went into the 5th grade. He has adhd and it was just too much loose, unstructured, minimally supervised time for him. The Y has good intentions, but it really isn't a high-quality program, IMO.

[Charisse]

Wow Moxie, this is scaring the crap out of me. (Well, it's combined with the "reunion" family picnic we had this weekend with the kids who moved on to kindergarten from Mouse's preschool. Delightful little boy who wrote his own thank you notes for his 5th birthday gifts, stuck in a classroom where the sound of the letter B is half a day's lesson plan, just to name one. The kid is acting up and no wonder.) Mouse is certainly looking on the path to being this kid...and I was this kid and was so miserable. They moved me to a mixed G1/2 class after a week and that had a great teacher and was OK, but second grade had me crying every single day. Bad teacher, and too small a school for options. My parents went into major financial risk to send me to a "gifted" school after that, for which I am forever grateful.

If you can get the teacher to let him do some reading during the pre-reading lessons that might help...but if she balks or does something like my bad second-grade teacher did, which was to sit me in the back and have me copy the dictionary, then get him the heck out to a teacher who will listed.

It's really unfortunate that our system doesn't serve those outside the average (in any direction) and IMO even more unfortunate that it's so based around age. Why your son can't do reading with other kids who are reading at his level is a mystery to me. (I know they say it's social, but when on earth after school will you ever be in an age-homogeneous environment like that...it's totally artificial.)

Oy. I wish I could help.

[debra]

I'm at work, so cannot post as much as I'd like, but do want to say I'm actually breathing a sigh of relief here. We're having a parent-teacher-principal meeting today regarding my son who is in day 6 of kindergarten. We fought to get him admitted early, as he is already reading at the third grade level and can do math in his head. The transition has been terrible -- he won't sit still or follow directions, and is verbally abusive to other students -- and he has never acted this way in pre-school. I've been stressed and mortified about this whole situation. The only way the teacher has been able to get him to cooperate is to have him sit by himself and read that Magic Treehouse series -- he read 14 of them last week!

I'm so sad about my son's transition so far as I loved school from Day 1, but now I am feeling a bit less alone. I love the idea of public schools, but our experience with our school district has been less than ideal. :-(

[debra]

I'm at work, so cannot post as much as I'd like, but do want to say I'm actually breathing a sigh of relief here. We're having a parent-teacher-principal meeting today regarding my son who is in day 6 of kindergarten. We fought to get him admitted early, as he is already reading at the third grade level and can do math in his head. The transition has been terrible -- he won't sit still or follow directions, and is verbally abusive to other students -- and he has never acted this way in pre-school. I've been stressed and mortified about this whole situation. The only way the teacher has been able to get him to cooperate is to have him sit by himself and read that Magic Treehouse series -- he read 14 of them last week!

I'm so sad about my son's transition so far as I loved school from Day 1, but now I am feeling a bit less alone. I love the idea of public schools, but our experience with our school district has been less than ideal. :-(

[Sheryl]

Just an idea for Debra and/or Moxie - if the teacher allows your children to read on their own, perhaps they can assign some kind of comprehension activity to go along with the books they read - drawing a picture of their favorite scene, etc. That will slow them down a little bit, and help the teacher to understand that they comprehend what they are reading.

[Jane]

Homeschool! Your kids sound too smart for the public school system.