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Comments

casey

How about trying to go down to two naps? By the time my son was six months old, 2 naps was just enough rest to get him settled at night for a nice long chunk.

paola

My 6.5 month old has just gone down to 2 naps and has started consolidating her sleep. She now sleeps around 45 minutes in the morning and sometimes 2.5 hours around lunch time, waking around 3. The hardest part is not letting her sleep again when she feels tired around 5, as I put her to bed at 7, and even a cat nap of 5 minutes puts everything out of wack. As far as night time sleep goes, we are in the process of letting her cry a bit, as she tends to wake up a couple of times between 7.30 and 9.30 and expects mummy to nurse her back to sleep. So far things are going pretty well and the night before last she woke at the usual times, sobbed a little and fell asleep again by herself, until 5.30, when she woke out of hunger.

shirky

how do you keep the leg flailing from being gut-kicking, is what I'd like to know. oooof.

liz

I'm wondering if he's waking because he's going through a growth spurt and is therefore hungrier than usual? Perhaps an extra feeding snuck in before bedtime might help him sleep for 6 hours rather than 4?

Otherwise, I completely agree with Moxie that if he's not upset about it, there's no reason for you to be awake just because he is.

pnuts mama

i would second the suggestion about the co-sleeping. we co-slept til about 6 months (maybe a little more) til pnut could go longer stretches at night, then we did what moxie said as far as keeping the same routine for nighttime, just after nursing her to sleep in our bed (the only way she would fall asleep), i put her down in the crib in our room, and played a lullaby cd. we were at a point that i was getting nervous about her getting mobile (turned out not to be an issue!) and wanted her to start getting used to her own space, and give us ours back.

i liked still having the crib in our room (i also had no alternative) b/c when she'd wake up to nurse she was still close, and i could get to her before she'd get all worked up. also, by about 9 or 10 months, she was mostly sleeping through (which meant 7 or 8 hours) and i'd nurse and put her back in the crib (or next to me in bed again) for another 2 or 3 hours. she wasn't able to put herself to or back to sleep til about that time, either. and that was rare.

hang in there. eventually, you all will sleep. til then, please know that an awful lot of us have been there and know how very hard it is.

Lisa

This sleep schedule sounds very similar to what my daughter's was at that age. We co-slept for the first three months (by choice), and then switched her to a crib at four months. The switch to a crib did not change her sleeping pattern, but it did improve my and my husband's sleep. If you want to be close to your son, you can keep the crib in your room (we did, though that was partly because we were in a 1-bedroom apt), but at least when your son is bicycling, you and your husband can drift back to sleep. The good news is that frequent wakers can become good sleepers. At fifteen months, my daughter started sleeping through the night and taking one 2-3 hour nap per afternoon. She's been a regular sleeper ever since. Good luck!

Jan

Both my kids went through a period where they were awake in the night for sometimes as long as 45 minutes to an hour. I'm quite sure if I had offered them food, they would have taken it, but my rule is if it isn't real crying (my second one in particular did kind of a low-grade grumbling thing sometimes) I leave 'em be. I can see where this wouldn't work if you co-sleep (we did while they were infants, but moved them to their own rooms at 4 months) but maybe even just moving him into his own bed in your room would work, at least until he starts sleeping better at night.

Both my kids needed that third nap until 9 months or so, but they were doing shorter first and second naps (45 minutes each usually). I'm a teensy bit obsessed with my kids getting enough sleep, so if he's well-rested, I'd lean toward changing something else before I'd mess with the naps.

Sarah

Our daughter, world's worst sleeper of all times ever in the history of the universe, started, purely by coincidence I'm sure, sleeping through the night, all night, every night, the very same day we threw in the towel on co-sleeping and moved her to her room.

I had an inkling (okay, I knew) that we were the ones most likely waking her up (my husband is a snorer and tosser and turner), but I looooved having her next to me so much that I kept ignoring it. She was still waking up 2-3 times a night up to 7 months.

She now sleeps like a champ and I have learned my lesson for the next one...though I'm sure I'll still co-sleep way too long.

bianca

Read the "reasonable sleep" chapter of Our Babies, Ourselves if you are worried about this sleep pattern. It will alleviate your concerns (it won't make things easier on you in terms of sleep deprivation, but at least you won't be tired AND worried). I wish I had done so when Bean was that age. I ould have accepted him as normal rather than try to "fix" his sleeping patterns.

rebecca

I don't know if you can still manage a swaddle, but at 4 months (now) we are trying to work on sleeping unswaddled and I find that it's okay, but not great. If I can keep monkeybaby from doing the bicycle he stays asleep. So, last night for instance, swaddled, there were no wakeups from 9pm to 7am. It was a nice break from our current sleep (or lack of sleep) patterns.

AnonMom

Have you tried moving his nap times around? I'd see if I could move the two earlier naps later in the day (30-45 minutes) and then eliminate the third nap. If my kid gets too much nap during the day, it hurts his night sleep, so we place limits on the amount of naps. The total time asleep sounds fine, but it's okay to "encourage" them to sleep at night by adjusting the sleep during the day.

heather

We have a new rule in our house (new since the birth of our now 7-month-old girl): no napping after 4pm, period. If she does nap after 4pm, she won't sleep until 10 or 11pm. If she doesn't nap after 4pm, she's good & ready to sleep by 8pm. My first suggestion is to try this: either move her last nap earlier so she is awake by 4pm or eliminate the last nap all together. My second suggestion is to try something stimulating after the last nap and before the bedtime routine: maybe a walk around the neighbourhood, some time in the Jolly Jumper, whatever. (Time in the Jolly Jumper before bathtime works wonders for us.)

Ellie

um sorry for the novel here

It sounds so very normal to me. I think trying to put him his crib is a good idea, better yet if it's in a different room. The worst that could happen is that it won't work. Really there are good suggestions here, but I have to warn you that it's possible none of them will work.

But I can answer your real true question: not getting consolidated sleep will not hurt your baby. I don't know if you've read Weissbluth or what, but if you have please please please try to forget everything he said. I made that mistake and spent months worrying about my son, who is a terrible horrible sleeper. It didn't help that he wasn't babbling/making consonant sounds until late (10 months), and was just generally unhappy all the time; I was sure I was hurting him by not making sure he got consolidated sleep. The truth is I just have a really really high needs baby, and I've come to accept and embrace that.

Well, he's almost 12 months now and he talks (says a bunch of words) and is usually pretty happy unless something (TEETH) causes him to get less sleep than usual. And no, he still doesn't get consolidated sleep. He'll sleep 2-4 (5 if a miracle occurs) hours at a time...sometimes. Other times he sleeps as little as 30 minutes before waking up to nurse. And the early mornings, well, they're horrible; for a while he was wanting to wake up for the day at 4:30 a.m., and even now when it's between 5 and 6 (which seems late to us) he spends the last few hours in bed nursing constantly. At some point I'll try to night-wean him, but knowing him he'll just refuse to go back to sleep and I'll give up :p

Oh, and he needed 3 naps a day until he was 9+ months old (needed as in he was a sobbing screaming mess if he didn't get). Now at 12 months he NEEDS his hour in the morning and 2 in the afternoon (thankfully he's a pretty good napper; I often nurse him back to sleep in the middle of naps, though). I'm sure this is because he doesn't get a full night's sleep. But the point is: he's normal, he's obviously smart, and he's a really cute kid. (Plus he got a lot happier after he learned how to communicate via signs and words, and started understanding things better.)

One more thing: we tried putting him in a crib in a different room, and it made no difference. He's in a side-carred crib now, and that works well for us. I always recommend the side-car because if you move your mattress it doesn't disturb the baby, and if the baby moves around it doesn't disturb you. Plus it extends your side of the bed and is pretty safe.

Another Erin

Re: the wakefulness at night, my 9 m.o. has been doing that since day one. In her earliest days, I would often wake to find her grunting beside me, eyes wide open, perfectly content. Just hanging out. She still does this, though now she toe sucks or plays with her own hands. I no longer fully awaken for any of this - which obviously means I'm not bothering with active measures to make her fall back asleep. She's an active, happy, outgoing baby - strangers often comment on how happy she seems. So I vote with Moxie on not worrying about the night wakenings.

meera

in the time i sent moxie the email, lots have changed.

re the co-sleeping thing, he doesnt sleep in the same bed, but have the crib in the same room. We dont have the option to put him in another room.

since i sent the mail, i stopped going to him during his nightly wakeups, he plays around for a bit, and then cries a bit (15 mins to half hour on and off) before popping off to sleep. The crying is NOT fun, but what to do. If we try to comfort him, it takes a min of 2 hrs for him to go back to sleep.

So now we have the situation where he sleeps 10.5 to 11 hours at night, with one long stretch of 6 to 7 hrs in the evening which is continuous.

But the naps have been totally ruined. He takes only 2 naps, each of abt 45 mins in duration. The afternoon nap is longer, only if somebody is around to continously rock him every 45 min stretch he wakes up.

Thanks for the advice, good to hear i'm not alone.

Lisa

Ellie, do we have the same baby?

High-needs, check. Happy, active, verbal, check. "Bad" sleeper? Definitely. But getting better. In our case (at 18 months) it's two 1.5-hour naps a day - slowly moving to one longer nap a day but it's a looong transition. Waking only once or twice a night now, and only briefly (he's in his crib until the first waking, then we bring him into our bed). Sometimes he sleeps through a nap, sometimes I nurse him back down halfway through.

We tried it (almost) all: bed, cosleeper, crib, bouncy chair, swing, same room, different room, bouncing, rocking, singing, nursing. It just took time for his sleep patterns to mature. (That, and for us to find and treat a case of severe anemia at 10 months.)

By the way, things got a lot better at 11 and then 15 months, just as Moxie predicted. But at 6 months? The original post was pretty close to our experience.

Lisa

P.S. I put Weissbluth in the shredder, and was much happier for it.

Naomi (Urban Mummy)

At 9 months, my son still wakes at least 2 times per night. We are still cosleeping. I love it, yes. We actually put him in his crib for his "first" sleep of the night, and when he wakes up I bring him into bed with me.

I would like him to spend more time in his own bed (well, I sort of want him to!) but sometimes he will refuse. Wailing, screaming as if he's being tortured, crying hysterically almost to the point of being sick refusal. He just wants mummy.

I used to be able to go back to sleep if he woke up, leaving him beside me (he would pull my hair to wake me up!). Now, however, he's JUST started crawling (2 days ago), and will climb all over me. I'm hoping when he finally gets settled with crawling, his sleep will improve again.

Good luck. Just wanted to let you know others out there are going through something similar!

Nutmeg

Does it make you feel somewhat better to know that some babies are even WORSE Than that? I've got a 7.5 month old that takes three 30-45 minute naps during the day and wakes up at least every two hours all night long and cries and screams inconsolably for a while every time he wakes up.

I've got no advice since we have literally tried everything short of swaddling him and hanging him upside down in a south facing doorway. We clearly have no idea what we are doing over here. Or rather, we clearly have a kid that has a lot of trouble sleeping.

But sometimes it feels better to know that you could have it worse... way worse. Or maybe it scares you!

Good luck! I hope you get some sleep!

Lisa

Nutmeg, I feel for you.

For all of you, really.

I should have added: at the lowest point (8 or 9 months), T. was up 8x a night (mostly brief, but occasional 1-hour midnight playfests). Naps were 20 min, twice a day. Aagh.

It _does_ get better.

Amberjee

I totally agree with Moxie about sleeping through the bicycling awake period thing. My theory now is that if they aren't upset, then I don't mind them being awake, and I will do my best to get some kip myself.
And yeah, sounds pretty normal for a 6 month old, despite all these parents and experts trying to tell you different.

laury

Just an idea about the waving legs: do you have him in a sleepsack/ sleeping bag? I get the impression they are less used in the US than here in Europe, but we find them a godsend for when they're too big to swaddle but still need a bit of confinement to stay snug.

Nutmeg

Oh.. I second Laury about the sleepsack.

Back a few months when things were slightly better than they are now (but not great), on nights When the bubs wasn't in his sleep sack it was a great leg kicking fest and sleep was definitely worse those nights! We only have one so SOMEtimes it had to be in the laundry!

Charisse

Hi Meera,

sounds like you're doing a great job and your son is doing great. Your second post makes me think you may actually have a baby who just doesn't need all that much sleep. They do exist (every sleep book will tell you it's extremely unlikely, but you've already gotten the sound advice to pop those in the shredder). It's kind of hard to get your head around just because so much of the culture is focused on getting kids to sleep more, nap more, etc--they're called "bad nappers" if they take short naps, you yourself are saying the naps are "ruined"...but it's well within the realm of possibility for a 6-month-old to only need 13 hours of sleep. If he's happy and active, he's probably getting enough.

I have a 3-year-old whose pattern at 6 months was a lot like your son's--11 1/2 or so at night with one waking, and 2 naps of 20-45 minutes. I stressed myself out a lot worrying about whether my bubbly, alert little girl was getting enough sleep, because the books said she needed more, and all my friends seemed to have kids who were going down for an hour or two twice a day and 12+ at night. But, she's continued to need less than the books say at every stage, and continued to be a happy, growing little girl.

I'm aware that Moxie calls what I'm about to say "Stockholm syndrome" but there really are some advantages to a less nappish kid. More time for him to learn and play, and much earlier ability for you to plan an uninterrupted day and really get out and about. Getting Him Enough Sleep will not have to be as big a consideration in your plans--I was stunned recently at how well my daughter managed a difficult travel day followed by a 3-hour timeshift in the wrong direction. At one point I realized she'd had 7 hours in the last 24, and she was perfectly cheerful and bouncy. (Couldn't have done it twice in a row, I suspect, but there you are.)

But, you will end up thinking and planning differently from most of the moms you know, and it may get frustrating to be always going against the tide. You may find yourself needing to restrict naps in order for him to get a decent night's sleep eventually, and there may be a time when you have a hard time getting afternoon playdates because everybody else is napping. Just as a potential reference, here's what the low-sleep-need pattern looked like for us:

6 mos: 11 1/2 hours at night, 2 45-min naps
14 mos: 11 hours at night, 1 1:15-1:45 nap
2 years: 10 1/2-11 hours at night, 1:15 nap about 3x/week, but only at daycare
2 1/2 years: started seriously discouraging naps because bedtime would end up being 11pm or even later
3 years: 10-11 hours at night, occasionally crashes for a 20-min snooze at preschool if it's a super-active day

I spent a lot of time being frustrated with either myself or the prevailing expectation that all kids will be napping for long stretches until 3 or 4. I did best when I paid attention to Mouse's real needs and did what worked for her. If you do the same, and don't worry about the amount of sleep unless he actually seems tired, you'll do great.

Good luck!

hill

Um, anyone for 9 hours of sleep for a 6 month old? Wake-ups usually once or twice, with nursing the only (easiest?) solution to hysterical crying. That works out to nursing about every 3 hours round the clock. Naps range anywhere from 45 min to 2 1/2 hours, 2 to 3 times a day. Never in her crib (ooh, bad Mommy strikes again) but rather in this bean bag thing of hers, or in the scarf/stroller. So when we're out and about for much of the day, her napping quotient skyrockets! She's happy unless tired enough to fight the fatigue, and crawling (though not sitting).

Sleep resistant and needy nurser.
Any similar experiences?

Amberjee

hill,

we are all sleep deprived at www.sleepisfortheweak.wordpress.com
seem to have been through it (or still going through it) all. xx

Carla Hinkle

It sucks, but I think your son is normal.

My oldest daughter, at 6 months, slept about 11 hours at night, 2 or 3 45 min. naps during the day. I just about killed myself trying to "improve" her naps and it never worked until she was older and switched to 1 nap.

My younger daughter is currently 6 months. Sleeps 11 hours at night, 3 30 min naps during the day.

Hang in there!!!!!!

Jen

My daughter is 6 months old also. We currently put her to bed around 7:30-8. We feed her at 10pm and she sleeps until about 6:30-7. We wake her up for the 10pm bottle or she will wake through the night. We are trying to eliminate this 10 oclock feed. I was told to move it back in 15 min increments. That seems to have her waking that much earlier every morning to start her day. Does anyone have any suggestions on how and when to eliminate this "dream feed?"

Kristen

hi jen - my understanding is that the dream feed needs to continue until 7 or 8 months of age. since you say your daughter is only 6 months old, perhaps you could keep going with the dream feed for another month or so before trying to cut it out?

(but what do i know?? my son is only 4 months old, and he still gets his dream feed every night at 10:30pm)

Katy

I have 6 1/2 month old twins (corrected age of 4 1/2 months because they were born 2 months early), anyway they're asleep by 7pm and wake up at 7am. They have 2, 1.5 to 2 hour naps everyday. I found qetting them on a schedule was the best thing ever. Kids need predictability and structure. Also, I think it's good for children to have their own room. I think that they need to be able to sleep on their own and when they do wake up in the night, they need to be able to comfort themselves back to sleep, without needing assistance from you. I recommend reading the book I used to get my babies to sleep through the night and to get them on a schedule. It involves letting them cry in timed intervals, then comforting them for a few minutes, without picking them up. It can be tough at first but in the long run it is better for you and your baby. The book is "Solve your child's sleep problems" by Richard Ferber.

robert

i have a 7 month old ,premature girl. she was born 3 months early. she now sleep around 6 to 8 hours a night before she wakes up out of hunger. she takes down 3oz and off she goes to sleep for about 2 to 3 hours. every now and then it is 3 to 4 but usually it is about 2 to 3. what I'm trying to do now is get her to sleep earlier then she usually does. she goes to bed to sleep around 10 to 11pm every night. my wife and i are trying to get her to go to sleep around 8:30 to 9:30. how does anyone suggest i do this.any input would help.

Carmiya

Meera- I think your baby is my baby. Except she's in a crib next to our bed, and when she's awake during that 2 hour stretch, she is fussy if we let her be, but quiet if we are trying to shhh her back to sleep. it's unnerving. we've figured out that she basically just can't go more than 8 hours of sleeping w/o being awake (i secretly feed her, a dream feed, 1/2 way into that 8 hours). so once she's done w/ 8 hours, she's AWAKE. we're trying to push back her bed time to 10, so she'll only have 1 feeding between 10 and 6 (a secret dream feed) so hopefully by 6, that's when she'll pull her 2 hour wake up. but by that point, we'd be happy to get up w/ her. it's an experiment, really.

Mama2Bubby

I have four children. I guess I'm just not the brightest bulb. I never worried about sleep patterns. Sure some of my children have been horrible sleepers. I just assumed when they were tired they would sleep, and we the weren't they would stay awake. Someone said baby mommy strikes again, well I'll strike repeatedly. I don't take notes on how many bottles, diapers, jars of food, naps, or hours sleeping. I know all his signs. High pitch whine=diaper, grumble=bottle, clucking tongue=jar food, hair rubbing+eh eh= sleep. I don't try to make him go back to sleep ever. If you have to wait two hours while working your butt off to put them down, then they weren't ready for sleep at the start.
I do realize every mommy is tired at this stage. I don't sleep much myself. Hub and I do take turns, but we have always followed our babies cues. I hope you start sleeping more. At night hub takes a shower with our son. The water beading down seems to put him out for many more hours than a bath. Maybe it could work for you.

Abram

Somewhere I have seen ... And if on that very much.

Jennifer Gupta

All of you that let your children cry themselves back to sleep should be ashamed. You have a child to care for them and love them...not to teach them how to scream themselves into a state of slumber by themselves in a dark room. Would you like to go to sleep that way? Probably not. Yes children should learn to comfort themselves, but you as the parent can give them GENTLE tips on how to do that.

It is totally normal for a baby to wake up MANY times during the night and you really shouldn't night wean a baby until 18 months when they can understand why they are crying with daddy instead of nursing with mommy. My daughter does not sleep well (wakes up 4-6 times in a 11-12 hour window) but I grew to accept who she was. This time shall pass.

sue

I am a first time mommy and I spent hours researching and reading that weisbluth book to help with sleep and my theory now is to just do what works...i don't believe that letting them cry it out is the answer. I do, however, believe that a schedule might work in cases where the child is not napping well or sleeping well at night. I started a bedtime routine and schedule when my babe was around 2 to 3 months. we do the same thing every night and i do believe this has helped her with her sleep at night. my significant other realized that during the day she would usually take naps around an hour after she ate so that is what we base naps on and of course we look for the cues...fussy, hair or ear pulling, and rubbing of the eyes. we also still swaddle her for naps as it helps calm her down..we don't swaddle at night, but we do use a sleepsak!! we will also cosleep after she wakes up as she tends to wake up once a night and at that time i will nurse and if she doesn't fall right back to sleep she will eventually..we just let her be. i know it is hard as she wasn't a great sleeper, but she has turned into one and i'm not sure if it is what we do or just the natural course of things. i also realize that things that were going right could go wrong tomorrow..i believe babies are always changing!! my last opinion will be that don't overread and research...this just causes more stress and anxiety...just go with what your babe is telling you!!

Hasan

Hi, I'd love to follow your blog but don't know "who" you are, or why I sholud??? this isn't a slight, this is just me wanting to maybe suggest an about me section in your sidebar or a tab? How many kids do you have? How long have you been married? How old are your kids? These things are a good way to connect with your audience and subsequently build it. Blog audiences like to feel a connection with the blogs they follow, that's what keeps them coming back and makes you a successful blogger! I do marketing consulting for a living, so it's just a tip! Happy Blogging!

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  • My expertise is in helping people be who they want to be, with a specialty in how being a parent fits into everything else. I like people. I like parents. I think you're doing a fantastic job. The nitty-gritty of what you do with your kids is up to you, although I'm happy to post questions here to get data points of how you could try approaching different stages, because, let's face it, this shit is hard. As for me, I have two kids who sleep through the night and can tie their own shoes. I've been a married SAHM, a married freelance WAHM, a divorcing WOHM, a divorced WOHM, and now a WAHM again. I'm not buying the Mommy Wars and I'll come sit next to you no matter how you're feeding your kid. When in doubt, follow the money trail. And don't believe the hype.
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