The effect of unintentional words

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(Please read the post below this one, too!)

Several of the commenters from Wednesday thought that Sarika was using the word "naughty" either as a joke or because English is not her native language. If she was using the word naughty not knowing fully what it means, then I apologize for using her question to make my point about not ascribing negative motives to your child. (Although I don't apologize for making the point in general, because this is one of the things that causes the most damage to the parent-child relationship IMO.)

But let me ask you this, and see what you think: Does it matter what your motives are if you say something negative about a child?

I'd argue that it doesn't matter, because the child still hears those words and internalizes them. The point of being mindful of not saying negative things about your child isn't to make you feel like a bad parent for saying them. The point is to make you aware that you do it so you can stop saying them, because whether or not you intend them seriously, the child still hears them.

FWIW, I also think parents should monitor what they say about themselves when they're around their children. Even joking about "Oh, stupid Mommy forgot her car keys" is harmful to your child. You are your child's whole world, and if you're stupid, then your child has nothing to trust to be powerful and keep them safe.

What do you guys think? Am I overthinking this? Or is this something we should all be trying to work on?

Comments

[Moxie]

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[Jill]

Ok, I'll give this a try.

I think you are right on with this. I hear so many moms of boys making excuses for their behavior "because he's a boy." Don't they realize the kid can hear them?

I've learned to be very careful about the "Let's wait until Daddy gets home" when I run into something difficult. My sons began to expect me to give up easily on things, and wait for dad to march in and save the day.

[Kate]

Oh, I don't disagree at all. We've never ever, even (or especially) in jest called our little ones "bad" or "naughty." Their behavior, when "bad" (usually really age-appropriate--as an aside, "bad" is just so general and nondescript) gets called "dangerous/unsafe," a "mistake," "inappropriate," "frustrating," or "hurtful."

We also do the same for ourselves--Ema and Abba make mistakes all the time (ALL THE TIME!!!), but we don't say that we're stupid or bad. We try to fix the problem, apologize when necessary, and try not to re-visit it too much.

I am certainly not holding myself up as a paragon of parenting--far from it--but this is something I've tried to keep to: as pissed off and frustrated as I get, I concentrate my daughter's (almost 3) BEHVAIOR (changeable), not her PERSON (not so much).

Which isn't to say I don't think nasty thoughts and then cry in the shower, if you know what I mean.

[Monica]

I've really been working on this one. Since my daughter doesn't yet speak, it's so easy to lose sight of how much she can understand. I have a tendency to berate myself excessively when I make a mistake, the "oh, stupid Mommy" sort of comment. But I don't want her to think its fine to call herself (or anyone else) stupid just because of a mistake, so I monitor that. Fail often, but try.

I also stopped calling her a "bad sleeper" etc--in fact, I don't call her "bad" about anything at all. Like Kate said above, I really try to concentrate on BEHAVIOR instead of PERSONHOOD.

Happy Mother's Day (early!), Moxie. And thanks for all that you do. :)

[Linda]

I think you're absolutely right, Moxie. I try to be very careful about how I describe my reaction to my kids' behaviour. I say I'm frustrated, I'm sad, etc. I never say they're bad~I say they're acting rude, they're not obeying, etc.

I do, however, constantly tell them that they're great kids. I've read places that I'm not supposed to do that, but I don't care. If you can believe negative stuff when you hear it over and over again, why can't positive things work the same?

[MrsHaley]

I completely agree with you, Moxie. As a former teacher, I have seen the effects of such negativity on an alarming scale. Imagine the confusion of a student who overhears two teachers discussing another student (with the same name) who is learning disabled or in danger of flunking, and assuming it is himself! The resulting downward spiral was almost unstoppable until we realized what he thought was true about himself -- when he was neither learning disabled nor in danger of flunking! True story.

I think we should train ourselves never to say anything to our children that we wouldn't tolerate a stranger / teacher / coach / caregiver to say to him or her. If what's coming out of the parent's own mouth is something they would throttle another adult for saying to their child, then it should not be said at all. This includes even nonverbals, like tone, volume and touch.

What should happen more often is a child overhearing his or her parents saying positive things about the child to each other and to other adults.

I want my child to know deep in her heart how very wonderful, magnificent and amazing I think she is. Little everyday things tear each of us down incrementally and I want to be a source of confidence and security for her. When she looks into her heart and back on her childhood, I want her to be able to say, without reservation, that she knew at every moment her mommy & daddy thought she was a wonderful, special, extraordinary person and that she could always count on them 100% for safety, security and solace. Maybe it's unrealistic, but it's a goal.

[amy]

I am always trying to work on this issue of language for myself and for my daughter.

Whenever I made a mistake as a child all the way until I was married (in my late 20s), my mother would act horrified and flabbergasted and scold me, saying, "You Dumb Kid!" It absolutely crushed me, every single time.

I remember asking her to stop saying that because it hurt my feelings, and she would blow me off. I was too sensitive, she said. Finally, as a married woman, I confronted her on it. We argued until I cried, and she still maintained that she meant no harm by it - she did not actually think I was dumb, so why was I letting it bother me? I couldn't make her see that when she said those words, it appeared to me and to the world that she believed those words.

There's more to that story, of course, but I think that's enough to illustrate why I try to remember to say other things, like "Oh, that didn't work out," "Whoops, I gotta try that again," or "That's a bummer. We'll have to do it another way next time." My daughter needs to see that yes, whatever she or I just did was not effective, but we get another chance or we can ask for help. We're not perfect, and that's normal.

I might be overcompensating, but I've decided to live with that potential mistake rather than continuing language I *know* is hurtful. There are so many bad choices I'm going to make as a parent that I won't realize at the time. I don't see the harm in trying to minimize their effects.

Sorry for the gigantic comment. This is a sensitive issue for me, as you can see. I know what my mom would say...

[graygirl]

My mother always made (and still does) comments about herself ("God, I'm an idiot!"), and even though she raised me with nothing but positive messages about myself, this has stuck with me. I've often found myself doing it, pre-child, so I'm making an effort to avoid it now. I'm wondering what sort of self-referential language you find harmful? I tend to say things like, "Silly Mommy! I didn't mean to spill the crackers." I've never considered "silly" to be a negative adjective--I often say to my daughter, "You're being silly!" (or goofy) when we're playing (not in a context that would discount what she's saying/doing, just acknowledging that she's doing something playful or making a joke). To take it a step further, do you feel that saying "I didn't mean to do that; I made a mistake"--such as when you break something--could threaten a child's view of a parent as a powerful/trustworthy/competent caregiver, although not to the extent of calling yourself "stupid"? I'm not suggesting a parent should never say he/she made a mistake, just wondering if there is an age or stage at which recognizing that parents are capable of making errors could really rock kids' worlds. That wasn't especially well phrased, but hopefully you get my intent.

[cat, galloping]

of course words can be very damaging. i just think that tone is important, too, and i felt that particular sentence in that particular instance was quite likely spoken/written in a loving/joking tone.

[Heather]

I wonder if people here will think this is awful: My husband's pet name for our daughter is "bad baby" and has recently switched to "badness" (ex: "How is The Badness this morning?" spoken to her.) He always says it in a very happy tone in a babytalk voice and he means it jokingly. She always smiles and often giggles when he uses it. Lately I have been wondering at what age this is likely to become really confusing, or at the very least cause her to believe that "bad" means "good." I've asked him to find a new pet name, but he's still enjoying this one. Thoughts?

[Kirsty]

I think the issue here is cultural.

- In American culture, it seems, it may not be okay to call a baby or child "naughty", and it *may* be harmful to the baby or child (I would say this is still open to argument, depending on how the word is said, what the home culture of the family is, etc...")

- In South Asian (Indian, etc...) culture, it is fine to call a baby or child "naughty" in a loving way, and the word does not have the bad meaning it does in the US. So it is unlikely to be harmful to the baby or child. In fact, it seems likely that most babies and children are called this frequently, and that they grow up fully understanding the meaning within that culture, without feeling the hazardous effects of the meaning that it has in US culture.

So, as this poster (who used this word about her baby) is probably South Asian (judging by her name), she would have used this word in full confidence, based on the meaning in her country's culture, without ever realizing that it had a different meaning in the US and would cause a fuss. I think she can be excused for this, and can continue using this word as she would normally do, but she will probably avoid using it on US-based blogs and boards now! Just another thing to chalk up to experience... "avoid this word when speaking to people from such-and-such a country". When we travel overseas, we may also find that certain words we commonly use are considered rude in another country. All we can do is learn these things little by little, as we go along.

[marion]

Well, amy, if your mother didn't really believe that you were a dumb kid, then why did she say otherwise? :) That's a little like me telling a boyfriend, "Oh, I don't really think you're a cheating jerk, even though I just called you a cheating jerk." Good for you for breaking the cycle.

(I got nuthin' else to add. This just struck me.)

[Am]

I'm with Kirsty...South Asians calling a baby or toddler naughty are not making a value judgment. They are proud of their active and smart children. My South Asian husband will say, "She is getting so naughty!" and means it with pride only. It's like saying clever. I think our daughter will understand that.

[Raia]

I agree that words matter, even when the intent is benign. But still, words have different meanings across cultures. If her culture defines the word 'naughty' differently than ours, it's perfectly acceptable for her to use it as she did.

[Slim]

It doesn't bother me, as long as it's said in a clearly joking manner, and it's not the only form of address the child receives. My mother used to say "Oh, you horrid child!" when I was teasing her. When my kids pretend to be about to do something they know they're not supposed to do, I have been known to tell them how rotten they are while tackling them and tickling them.
I don't do it with other people's kids, unless I know the parents tease, too. I know some families are uncomfortable with anything other than earnestness, and that's fine. We're uncomfortable without a little teasing, and I think if you're attuned to your kids, you know whether they're OK with it. (And if you're not attuned to your kids, you've got problems besides inappropriate teasing.)

[isabel]

Interesting questions, Moxie. As a developmental psychologist, I'd say you were dead right about being extra careful about the words you ascribe to your child and even to other adults around them. BUT! But, here's the whacky thing, as a daughter of a Latin, gregarious, impulsive, often yelling mother who loved her kids intensely and oh so deeply, I completely disagree with your suggestion that these "unintentional words" will necessarily have a lasting effect. Which is ridiculous because I was trained for way too many years not to use my own case history as "proof" of some point. And I'm sure this doesn't go for all kids, nevertheless, here's my belief/experience: What I think makes the most difference is that your children know, in their heart of hearts, how deeply they are loved and how wonderful they really are, in your eyes especially. This could be called some sort of overarching warm emotional parenting context. When it's there, the kid knows it, the parent knows it. In this context, I think calling yourself stupid for losing your keys, and even *gasp* calling your child stupid for forgetting their hat for the 10 jillionth time is fine and will do NO damage whatsoever. Here's a ridiculous example, again, not at all proof, but whatever: my entire family, my mother, father and brother, used to break out in a particular song when I was about 8-16 years old and did something flaky. The little diddy was in Romanian and essentially the words went: she is so stupid, she is so stupid, how can she beeeeeeeeeeeeee so silly. Yup, that's right, I was called stupid often by my WHOLE family. And yet somehow I not only felt like the smartest girl in the world for most of my childhood, but I NEVER doubted my mother's love for me or her general admiration of my attributes. Ever. I have so many other examples of my mother raging and calling me irresponsible, lazy, thoughtless, and so on. Somehow, I never internalized these little outbursts. How she managed to use these kinds of words (and they were hardly unintentional) and yet never leave any lasting trace of shame in me (and believe me, I've tried to find that trace, it just isn't there), I'm not quite sure. It may have a lot to do with how often she expressed her love and admiration (not only in words, but also with tons of hugging and general mushing throughout our days) as well as all the other "naughty" words.

By the way, to this day, my mother and I have a close, deep friendship and spend several days a week hanging out with each other or with my baby boys. We genuinely like each other. I would count myself the luckiest woman if my boys eventually had the same relationship with me some day.

I guess my bottom line is that I'm not sure sweating the small little slips, outbursts, or even bitchy intentional words is really all that important if the family climate is intensely loving, affectionate and supportive.

Sorry to go on for so long...

And thanks for yet another a thoughtful post.

Isabel

[hedra]

Sometimes the words aren't unintentional, just ill-considered and inaccurate.

The power of inaccurate terms combined with 'to be' is astonishing at times. "you are so clumsy" was a biggie for me. I believed it. It was also inaccurate. BEING clumsy prevented me from thinking it was temporary or incidental. I would always BE. CLUMSY. It wasn't until I'd been dancing for five years, and was on the demonstration team for that dance group that I went 'good heavens, not clumsy!' It was astonishing.

But more powerful was when I heard a mom I knew (way pre-kids for me at the time) describe her daughter, who was much like I'd been as a child - always bruised up or bandaged in some way. "What a risk taker. Fearless. Undaunted. Never saw a hill that wasn't worth racing down at full speed." (Interestingly, she used equally positive and glowing terms for the girl's brother, who was cautious, considered, and thoughtful - and never got hurt.) I just about burst into tears hearing the phrasing she used. It rocked me. Accurate, positive terms. To BE, again, powerful verb. Accurately and positively used, with pride, and it became something so much more. I wasn't a clumsy child, I was a risk taker. What a different picture of myself that created! And wouldn't that have been a useful self-image for me. Sigh.

"Bad" and "Good" I detest for vagueness. I like accuracy. This language is full of good words, I like to use them. Kind, thoughtful, generous, dignified, considerate, daring, creative, interesting, cooperative, supportive, powerful, joyful, detailed, dexterous, inventive... so much richer and more useful than the boring old vague 'good/nice'.

We make a point of coming up with positive terms for what our kids do, so they can construct a positive idea of who they are for themselves. Some kids will do that no matter what you say. Some kids will be affected deeply by one casual negative comment on one day, others only by the same words said over and over. Can't pick which child you have, and won't always know what words hurt even if you think you do.

I do agree that 'naughty' has a subtly different meaning in some cultures. If you hear someone use the term in person, you'll feel it. It is used with ... well, almost gleefully, with relish and pride and an underlying sense of relief. It indicates that the child is being 'trying' to the parent, but there's a rightness and an acceptance and normalcy of that - kids are SUPPOSED to make life a bit difficult for the parents at certain ages, it is an indication of health and vigor. Doesn't stop it from being a pain in the rear, but is smiled at as normal behavior that will be outgrown later. A child who isn't at least a bit naughty (as used in that sense) is a matter of concern.

[kris]

I grew up hearing "Why are you so bad/naughty?" "What did I do to deserve you acting like this?" ... Well, I spent 4 years using a razor blade on myself and am in therapy. I don't think I'm good enough - ever. And I don't think that hearing that is the sole reason I'm screwed up - but I can still hear that voice echoing in my head, asking me why I'm such a bad girl.

[heather]

Positive reinforcement is so important. Our North American mass media constantly tells us we aren't good enough -- "buy this perfume and the boys will like you" or "wear this brand of shoes and you'll have the time of your life". The more confidence I can give my daughter, the better. I believe the keys to doing that is to focus on behaviour and facts, not her personally. Instead of "you are a messy girl", I say "your room is messy, will you please clean it up?"

[Sarah]

I completely agree with you and the majority of the other commenters here. Children and babies especially are so receptive not just mentally but spiritually. They internalize everything you say. I even try to make a point to ask people not to 'say things like that' around my 7 month old.
It especially lights a fire under me when someone says something ignorantly negative.

[monkey]

Yes, I think you are way overthinking it and your statements are pretty condescending on top of that. I am Indian myself and while there is plenty to be said about the manner in which some Indian parents speak to their children-the term "naughty" in our culture is usually used as a synonym for "mischievious" and is generally said in a very loving way. Add this on top of the fact that she's Hindu (I can tell from her name) and Hinduism is full of the Krishna mythology (he was a very naughty baby) of the mischievious child and your lecturing comes off...I don't know how to put it exactly...culturally misplaced.

monkey, a naughty baby, not a cutter

[Jane Plane]

When comments were not working I tried to post something, but I do think the majority of you are overthinking, seriously.

There is a real difference between self-deprecation, which has a long and literate history and is a legitimate and non-damaging way to present oneself, and self-hatred. So I don't think chiding oneself ("Oh, stupid Mommy!") for forgetting things is going to have the devastating impact Moxie describes.

And the same goes for the way we speak to our kids. It is doing children a real disservice to assume they do not know the difference between words spoken in love and other words meant to hurt. Hint: it has very little to do with the words you use.

[kathleen999]

I think words have an impact. I can remember a lot of words that hurt me, especially from my grandmother. But I also agree that the most important thing is the feeling of being loved unconditionally. And knowing your parents would do anything to keep you safe.

I'm not sure self-deprecating words are a problem, especially if said with a smile or laugh. If they were said with anger or frustration, maybe then it would seem scary to a kid. But if you laugh and call yourself silly, I think it might tell the kid that everyone makes mistakes and that's okay.