Limits

Starting month 2 of my job, and starting a new babysitter today.

No time to elaborate now, but what would push you to fire a babysitter? Tonight I'll write what made me do it.

UPDATE: I'm back. This is why we fired the first babysitter:

1. She was late to pick up my 5-year-old from preschool 5 times. Twice it was 10 minutes late, twice 20(!) minutes late, and one time she was 40 minutes late. That last time, the teachers had to leave, so my son went to the playground with his friend (thank goodness for his friend's mother), and when the babysitter finally showed up (after telling me on the phone she was just a minute away when I got the call 20 minutes after school was let out) 40 minutes late, she didn't even acknowledge the other mother. (Today I found out that she yelled at my son's teacher for having told us she was showing up late!)

2. She accidentally started a small fire in the toaster over (which could happen to anyone), and then threw water on it to put it out. Isn't it general knowledge that throwing water on an electrical fire is bad bad bad?

3. When asked why my younger son's diaper was so soggy at the end of the day she said, "Oh, I thought you only changed it when he pooped."

(At this point you're wondering where we found her. She came highly recommended by our old part-time babysitter, who we loved. It was really disappointing.)

Also, she showed up late every morning and made me late for work.

A note about our childcare situation: We only needed a few months' coverage, until the boys will be home with their dad all summer. So I was willing to put up with a little more than I would have if we'd needed someone long-term. Our new sitter seems to be great, but she knows we only need her for a few more weeks. If anyone in NYC wants someone energetic and just lovely and competent starting mid-June, I've got your woman.

Comments

[Heather AKA Epiphany Alone]

I would fire a babysitter who lied to me or my kids.

[enu]

I have fired a babysitter who disciplined my child inappropriately, and not in accord to any agreements about how she was supposed to be disciplined. In this case, I came to pick up my child and was told that she had been in a time out _all morning_. So, so out of there.

I _would_ (well, _would have_), fire(d) a babysitter for anything which I felt was a violation of trust, or if I felt my child was unsafe with the caregiver. Pretty broad categories, but in reality, most of the people who cared for my children were awesome, so it's not like it was an everyday occurrance. Just that once.

So sorry you had to go through this, Moxie.
Sending good childcare vibes your way.

[smashedpea]

We quit a home-based daycare when I got there at pick-up time and she and the kids weren't around and no one knew where they were.... when I got there and they'd decided to re-do their hardwood floors in the middle of the day while the kids where there... when it turned out that more and more often, I'd get there in the morning and had to wake up the care giver.... when she phoned us one Sunday night to tell us that some neighbour of hers would be looking after the kids the following day since she had forgotten to tell everyone about her doctor's appointment...

She was very good (on her "on days") and Sophie loved going, which is why I put up with occasionally having to wake her up at drop off time - but once the other stuff started happening, we pulled the plug.

And now we have a great home-based daycare that we're hoping will be able to take on #2 next year when I have to go back to work after finishing mat leave.

[Jan]

We haven't had to do it (well, except we relieved my mom of the responsibility of taking them one WORK day a week because "something came up" one too many times) -- knock wood.

I would do it for reliability reasons.

I would do it if I didn't think my kids were safe in some way (physically, emotionally).

I would do it if the sitter refused to follow through with specific things I asked of her, but probably not until after lots of chances.

Firing people bites. Sorry you had to do it.

Jan

[Slim]

I would fire someone if I thought my children were unsafe, but I would also fire someone if I thought she were not making my kids feel loved. Which is horribly vague and subjective, but my main concern (after safety) is unengaged caregivers. Not that you have to be interacting with them every moment of every day, but if you don't like hanging out with them, they can tell, and I don't want them to sense that from someone they should be bonding with.

[katre]

We're having a very serious talk this evening with our current babysitter, actually. We've been bothered over the past few months about how she does not listen to our instructions. The biggest problem has been that we said from the start "Our son loves books, so read to him every day." She doesn't.

For the most part she's great with our son, however. But the sticking point was our first phone bill from when she was with us. We normally make about 10-15 local calls a month, but that month there were 125! After getting Verizon to send us the complete listing, the calls are generally all to the same two numbers, and there are about 3 or 4 a day, and some days there are 15. The times are when our son has to be awake, so we want to know who she is talking to and what our son is doing while she's on the phone.

So now we'll need to find someone else. Anyone have a lead on a great babysitter or daycare in Bay Ridge?

[flea]

I decided I would never use a caregiver again (friend's stay at home husband) because he was such a space cadet. I thought the plan was, he would drop off his preschool child at her school (2 blocks away), spend the morning in my house with his baby and my 9 month old, then walk to pick up his daughter at the preschool and drop mine off with her afternoon caregiver, next door to the preschool. What happened was, he showed up late with his daughter and a double stroller, so I put my baby in the double stroller for them to walk to the preschool and gave him my house key. Baby's backpack (with food and EBM, etc.) was inside the front door. I told him this. He left the baby at the afternoon caregiver's without the backpack, and said he hadn't been able to use the key to get into the house. He didn't call (he had a cell and my work number). Nicest man imaginable, but he hadn't fed the baby and I have no idea where he spent the (hot summer) morning and I decided he was so flaky as to be actively unsafe.

I wouldn't hesitate to fire a caregiver if I was concerned about safety, was lied to, or felt the person's full attention wasn't on my child. It's all about trust. I would probably also ultimately part ways with someone whose philosophy diverged significantly from mine and who was unwilling to do things I considered important my way - but I'd hope to be able to figure that out in the interview/trial period.

[the boxing octopus]

My boy is in a home-based daycare and last year, when I picked him up, the sitter was on her back porch with the kids and some guests, who were smoking. We drew the line pretty hard on that one, and we will fire her if she allows guests (who really shouldn't be there anyway) to smoke around the kids.

[Shandra]

I really want to hear. I haven't had to fire a babysitter yet, but I didn't hire some after trial periods didn't work out.

Bottom-line issues for me would be: lying, failing to tell me about something key like a fall, not showing up on time, unkindness or discipline tactics we hadn't agreed on, or anything unsafe. Possible issues would be not following instructions (without some reasonable explanation) or not focusing on the job at hand (like the phone calls above - yikes! if they were not just really really short).

[iheartnewyork]

Sorry you had to go through this, Moxie. Certainly makes the shift back to work more of a challenge.

Our firstborn was in a daycare center his first year, before we switched to a babysitter, and we moved him from one center to another after one month because I didn't think he was getting enough one-on-one attention or being held/played with consistently. The next center had a much better vibe -- especially loved that I'd often find all the caregivers on the floor with the kids, playing with them, rather than standing over them.

I don't think I have anything new to add on what would drive us over the edge with a babysitter. We've had our issues with the two babysitters we've had over the past eight years -- but we can usually work through the issues with lots of communication. Although there are definitely things that bug me about my current caregiver, they're minor things that have nothing to do with the important stuff like safety, security, trust, reliability, warmth, attention, etc.

Good luck with your new sitter!

[Bobbi]

The first day care we decided wasn't for us was about 20 kids in a tiny house. They ran it very organised (she had a regular helper), but the kicker for me was going on and on about how bad another child had been (not mine) right in front of the child as if she couldn't hear what was being said about her. The next one was fired after she medicated my child RIGHT AFTER I DID (tylenol for teething) even though I told her that I had just given him some. It's tough - everybody's hot buttons are different. And after dealing with some real winners, mine have changed. My last sitter was a smoker - not in the house or around the kids, but as that was my only complaint about her - she was by far the best care giver I'd ever had - I let it go.

Good luck! Care givers are truly the most stressful part of working outside the home. When you are able to get the right one, working isn't bad...

[Isabel]

Some of my reasons would be: lying, distant and unengaged, unsafe, providing anything I've asker her not to (e.g., certain types of foods).

I've been at a music class recently during which I was observing a nanny interacting with a 9-month old. It gave me the eebie-jeebies because the woman was alternating between being too intrusive (jiggling the kid when he was clearly not into it, rattling loud toys in his face even after he started crying as a result) or being completely disengaged and probably frustrated. She gave off the vibe that she simply didn't like the kid (and she later made comments to the effect of how "over sensitive" he was and generally difficult). I would have fired my nanny if I knew that that was her style, but how on earth would I have known? I'm sure this woman wasn't acting this way (or outwardly complaining about the kid) in front of the parents. And I've wondered in the last 2 weeks whether I could/should comment to the mother the next time I see her... It's so fuzzy because she's not being objectively harsh or negligent to the child, she's just what I'd call unresponsive or insensitive to the child's state and his needs.I'd want someone to tell me about these impressions, but a large part of me thinks it just isn't my place.

What would you (or other posters) do?

Isabel

[luolin]

Suz at Within the Woods just went through a nanny problem (reported by another nanny who observed it) that sounds a bit like what Isabel is talking about.

[Lisa V]

Someone who didn't "like" my kid. They don't have to love them, but they should feel a certain affection for them, because they spend a lot of time with them.

[Deborah]

We started our daughter in daycare (one of those national chain type ones, not in home). When I went to pick her up on the third day, the teacher and her assistant were on break and the kids were with a person I'd never met or been told about. Just pissed me off so we didn't send her back.

[Cheryl]

We just gave our notice at our daycare center. It really felt like I was breaking up with someone. The center used to have two separate rooms for the Under Two crowd. One for babies who weren't walking yet, one for babies who were but who weren't old enough to be considered "toddlers." We loved the not-quite-toddler room. They went to the park every day, slept on cots instead of cribs, and ate at a table instead of in high chairs.

A week ago we got a letter stating that they were cutting down the number of Under Two kids they would take from 19 to 8 so they could all fit in one room. My rambunctious son would be stuck in a small nursery room all day, having to be very careful to not step on the small babies, having to be very quiet when any baby was sleeping. He would be going on stroller rides, but not to the park, just around the block and then back into the room. He'd be having meals in a high chair again and napping in a crib. A terrible way to spend the summer after he was used to being a "big boy."

We found a very nice home daycare that caters especially to toddlers my son's age and above. He starts next week, but I'm very sad to say goodbye to his teachers at the center. It's not the teachers' faults. The owner decided to make the change so she could make more money by having less staff. My son's age group was caught in the awkward transition.

[Charisse]

Similar triggers: lying, inappropriate discipline, inability to get along on key issues like naps, or lack of enough stimulation. When we were first looking for infant care, we looked at several home daycares where the proprietors just didn't seem into children--that wasn't going to work. The one we chose was the one who eagerly interacted with and asked to hold the baby during our interview. Same for later care--the toddler program we wanted was the one where the teachers seemed really happy to be spending their days with 10 2-year-olds.

Just lost the services of a wonderful nanny yesterday when she experienced a family tragedy. Had to dig deep into the backup options and think about what would be acceptable for the very short term, etc. Just wasn't comfortable with putting her with an unknown caregiver we wouldn't have time to check out. Wasn't crazy about any of the at-home neighbors. Mentally unstable local grandparent not really an option. We were going to fly my mom down and then mess around with vacation and wfh days, but Mouse's preschool took pity on us and agreed to start her a couple weeks early (was supposed to be June 1). thank goodness.

I have to say, some of my biggest times of anxiety as a parent have involved "will I be able to find/get in to/afford the right care situation.

[vickie]

Sorry to hear about your woes, Moxie! And I thought things were great, based on one of LOD's posts some time ago.

[liz]

We left two daycare centers due to safety issues - which were mainly caused by inattentiveness.

The thing is: trust your instints. If you don't feel "right" about a caregiver or daycare center, even if you can't articulate just WHAT is setting off alarm bells, start looking around for another place or sitter.

Key indicators for us were - after the first few weeks at a place, did our son cry for longer than about 5 minutes after we'd left him in his classroom? Did we ever find any child unsupervised? Were there any inappropriate objects in the room? (We found rusty cookie cutters at one place, unsupervised play with long laces at another - one child was in the process of strangling herself.) Are the teachers communicating with the parents? Are there widely varying age groups in the same room (at pick up at the shoelace place we would often see 2 year-olds in with 10 year-olds)...etc.

[Cat, Galloping]

not showing up! though, admittedly, i put up with that for nearly a *year* until the day she didn't show up *or* call.

but i'm afraid to read the rest of these and your answer... i feel like if i look for trouble, i will surely find it.

[RHW]

In agreement with most comments; dishonesty I think is an offense that I would not give a second chance, period.

Kudos to Liz for bringing up instincts. No matter what, trust your gut. I would fire someone simply if I felt something was "off." If you were getting strange vibes from your kids, if the sitter couldn't look you in the eye - those types of "hard to put your finger on" kind of things.

Note to Isabel about telling a parent vs. staying out of it: You could tell the mom with kindness and a positive spin as opposed to being judgemental. (Nanny sometimes seems to need a little help in figuring out 9mo as opposed to, Nanny was making him cry! It was horrible!)

I guess it's a risk on your part, but if I were the parent, I would DEFINITELY want to know. I believe in the whole "it takes a village to raise a child" theory. It might make the mom feel good to know that other moms are invested in the well-being of her child. That's how I would receive that kind of information, personally, as opposed to being offended. I'm guessing the mom would have greater motive to keep your identity private as opposed to telling the nanny that Isabel said yada yada.

I also think that if you see good things happening with sitters/nannys you should mention those too. I'm sure it would be nice to hear about how much fun Abner was having on the playground.

[mayberry]

When you mentioned that she ignored your explanation that El P needed to fuss for a few minutes before falling asleep -- that was a red flag.

[RHW]

By the way... here's something that might make you all chuckle. In an interview, a potential sitter informed me that I would need to pay her $2500 up front, and she would work the amount off. (The job required 4 hours of sitting per week.) Moxie, I hope that makes you smile a little :-)

[pnuts mama]

oh moxie!!i feel your pain! we sort-of fired our babysitter recently after she cancelled for the 3rd week in a row due to jetlag after her spring break in europe. i was like, are you kidding me? can you grow up a little already? she's a relative and a college student, and we thought she could be a good match for our pnut- how wrong we were!! (another relative had watched pnut the summer before and was awesome)

we were unhappy enough with her bs to ask her to consider whether or not she would be interested in continuing on with us (our exact words) and she got very "hurt" and "upset" and gave us *her* list of grievances and basically told us that she was doing *us* the favor in the first place. oy. if i was a vindictive jerk i would cut and paste her emails here but i try not to be that much of a karma saboture. i agree with the above poster about communication being key, but it also has to be both ways. we had no idea 1/2 the stuff that was a "problem" until too far after the fact.

here are the reasons why we were unhappy with her service:
1. attitude. she always seemed annoyed or in a bad mood when she was here and around my toddler. i wasn't paying her to be miserable, i was paying her to have fun with and play with my kid. she also had this annoying habit of mimicing my girl when she would whine or cry (she is really attached to me, but is ok with people she knows well enough)- which only made pnut that more upset (duh). i know kids can be frustrating but she was only here twice a week for two or three hours each time, and never tried to talk to us about it, i.e. never thought it was a problem. we thought it was a BIG problem.
2. disregard for my way of doing things. ex.: i suggested she could put on a baby einstein tape in the evenings when she watched pnut when she was smaller as she really responded to that favorably and it helped distract her/calm her down. the answer i got was "oh, i can't watch that tape, it makes me crazy." i wasn't paying her to watch what she wanted to on tv, and i really could care less if she found 1/2 hour of some inane video annoying. it's not about you, honey. or not paying attention to cues for food/drink, or me coming home to a dirty (#2) diaper. even when i would speak to her about these things, i am unsure how much got through or was just window dressing for my benefit.
3. lack of creativity/active participation with my kid. unless i specifically suggested a variety of things that they could do/play with, often she would just sit and read or study for school instead of playing with my kid, or just play the same thing over and over, instead of the 4,000 things she could have done. she had no other job requirements (dishes, cleaning, etc.) and i wasn't paying her to do her own thing while she was here.
4. no call/no show, or way too last minute to make alternate arrangements. this was the straw that broke the camels back for us, and what brought it all to a head. we were expected to bend over backwards around her schedule of college classes/meetings (going to school was her "real job"), never mind the fact that i needed her here when *I* had a class. she'd leave a message on my cell but not also try the house line, or v/v, or drop me an email with last minute bogus excuses, hardly ever speak to me, alwyas messages. drove me crazy, and was the final reason why we ended our working relationship her. oh, and she never considered herself "working" for us, was just doing us a favor, and never asked us for money (BUT NEVER MENTIONED THIS, AND NEVER HAD A PROBLEM TAKING OUR V. GENEROUS MONEY). i asked her what on earth she thought services in exchange for money was called and never received an answer. also, since she is family, it has turned into a big family thing (wonderful) with me being the bad guy. sigh. i will never make that mistake again.

best of luck, moxie. child care is so hard and makes my stomach twist into knots. we felt as though we were being taken advantage of, and that's why we currently have no sitter (WAGH!! mommy is losing her mind!! and getting no work done!!) and have really had to shuffle some serious scheduling. i'm hoping you can get someone til the end of june- tons of kids are out of college this week, maybe you can find a temp for a month or two? hang in there!

[Kristine]

We left a day care center because they did not inforce their own rules. Mainly one about bringing in sick kids. My son was there for 3 weeks and in that time managed to catch something he couldn't fight off and ended up with pneumonia. I couldn't take him back there.

In hindsight I also couldn't get them to understand that a crying baby does not always equal a hungry baby - and that should have been a clue. Instead of following my instructions, she just fed him every time he cried. I picked him up one time with the tightest belly I had ever seen.

My current baby-sitter takes wonderful care of him, anything I notice that I mention, she immediately takes care of, and I'm willing to overlook some things because of that.

[people, seriously?]

i was like, are you kidding me? can you grow up a little already? she's a relative and a college student,

College students are kids, and are supposed to be immature. I have no idea why people expect differently.

You want amazing childcare, find someone with ten years experience and be prepared to pay a living wage.

[Portlairge]

Hi Moxie:
Sorry you have to do this. I leave our 7 month old son with our wonderful babysitter who comes to our home. This morning I was soooooooooo jealous because he was so excited to see her after the weekend. I never let her see that I feel that way because I am so lucky to have someone like her in my life, however it pulls on my heart that he loves her so much. I know he does the same thing when I come home in the evening, but still........ She even keeps the focus on me when I am there- It's like she knows it must be upsetting to a working mother to see your kid so in love with the babysitter. Reading your post and all the comments made me realise, I should give myself a kick in the arse, acknowledge the jealousy (to myself) and move on. We struggle financially to pay this lady but she is so worth it.
Moxie, I hope your new babysitter works out. You are such a wonderful mother and an inspiration to me. Good luck.

[Christine]

We haven't asked one sitter back. I would say it's because I came home to find Max in a dirty diaper and unfed (despite my prepared snack). Mostly, though, it was just a gut instinct.

We have two other sitters we've used. And both are college students. Sorry, but I disagree with the above post. College students are adults, not kids. Each person is different - if there's something that makes me uncomfortable with the person at this age, that's unlikely to change with the passing of a few years. You could have entrusted me with anything in college. I screwed around on my own time, not on someone else's, and certainly not while they were paying me.

[Linda]

The idea that college students are kids makes me roll my eyes and talk like an old lady about what's wrong with the world today. As a nursing student, I was dealing with potentially dangerous meds and people's lives. Was I a "kid" up until the day after graduation? College is an in-between time when people are learning to be adults and responsible and the sitter that the previous poster described was too immature to be responsible for another human being. Thankfully, not all college (or high school) students are like that.

Anyway, Moxie, I would fire someone for a lot of the reasons mentioned above, but the only thing I've had to do is not hire someone. I interviewed a bunch of local college students and one of them went on and on about how she hated taking care of people in one of her nursing clinicals. She had an overwhelming sense of entitlement and a "that's not my job" sort of attitude that was totally inappropriate. I could picture her being a new nurse who refused to do any patient care that she deemed beneath her. Really, it was instinct on my part. I knew I'd never feel comfortable leaving my kids with her.

[Marie-Claire]

Discussions like this make me tense, because I think there's a lot of... _stuff_ that goes on. Parents want baby to like the nanny, but not love her, they want a paragon of childcare skills, but they don't want to pay more than 12 dollars an hour (and certainly there will be no benefits!), they want someone who will proxy-raise their child according to their exact specifications, but will not be _quite_ as good at it as they are, etc etc.

To be frank, I think lots of parents - and who can blame them - have very complex feelings about childcare providers, and I find that a lot of the discussions about them tend to be slightly (or, on occasion, not so slightly) disingenuous in that there are agendas and undercurrents no one wants to address; people often just want to be shored up in their belief that their thrice-yearly daycare switch is obviously about the poor quality of available childcare and not about some emotional stuff they themselves have going on.

[Alicia]

We haven't hired a sitter (yet), but when we do, we'd let that sitter go if there was any sort of dishonesty (including telling the child they have a secret to keep from mommy and daddy), inappropriate discipline, being disinterested in my child, being overly interested in my child (like the mother who wrote in about the daycare worker that would refer to herself as the child's mommy), too many cancelations, and most of all? If my child seemed upset knowing that the sitter was coming - beyond knowing mommy and daddy would be going out, but upset by the specific sitter. Even if I were not able to get a more specific reason, that would give me huge concerns.

[callie]

Oh my goodness- 12 dollars an hour? I provide daycare in my own home to two infants- for 35 dollars a day (that's 8-9 hours at about 3.88 per hour). We have a beautiful child-proofed home, I have two young children of my own- we provide the equipment, tons of toys, and all day is about making baby happy, fed, changed, well-rested, safe, and entertained. I treat my little charges as kindly as I treat my own. I don't take a phone call- I leave the machine on unless it's a parent calling to say hello. I don't watch tv. I do put laundry in and load the dishes after the babies are sleeping. I write a note to let mom and dad know how meals, moods, and naps went that day. I sit on the floor and play. I watch baby einstein. I read books, although we mostly just taste them. I wash hands- lots! I wipe noses, take two daily walk before nap and before home time.
I think I need more money.

[Moxie]

To "people, seriously?" up above: You know I'd rather have people post anonymously than not at all. But. If you're going to drive by, please don't pause here. Don't insult my readers unless you're prepared to stand behind what you say. I wonder if you yourself are paying a "living wage" as you put it to your babysitter, or if you have a babysitter at all. There's no way to know, since you're not giving any information about yourself, just sniping at strangers on my site.

I also dispute the fact that college students are supposed to be immature. The 15-year-old boy who used to babysit for us was on time, did things the way I wanted them to be done, and had a great attitude. If he could be a great babysitter, then a college student should certainly be able to. The last college student I hired was amazing.

Marie-Claire, where I grew up $12 an hour under the table would be a dream.

[the boxing octopus]

Wow, Marie-Claire, thanks for daring to speak the truth about me and all other parents who employ sitters/nannies. Your insight is oh-so-deep and helpful.

...and spoken like someone who clearly doesn't have children.

[vickie]

Those were definitely good grounds to let her go. (But is she the same one who rubbed lavender all over El P?)

[Marie-Claire]

I didn't mean to be insulting, and I didn't claim to speak for everyone in the world.

Where I live, 12/hour is very difficult to live on (not "can't buy fancy shoes" impossible, "can't live within public transit distance of your employer but also can't afford a car payment" impossible). When you add in the fact that most private childcare situations don't provide benefits, it's not a job many people who love kids can afford to take.

Not sure how me noticing that is insulting.

[pnuts mama]

I'm sorry if my previous comment started anything- it is still pretty raw for me and I may have said things that in hindsight I should know better to get over and move on.

I just wanted to add that we certainly always pay what we consider a decent wage ($10 an hour in cash!), and it includes being in my home and with food/drinks/etc. I don't hire a "professional" (i.e. a nanny, or part-time day-care) b/c that doesn't fall within the parameter of our current needs (only a few hours a week), and please believe me when I say that we definitely gave our sitter quite a bit of wiggle room due to her maturity level and her schedule. we don't have a lot of options for childcare right now, which adds to my frustration. perhaps callie could move to the NY metro area?

i would disagree, however, that college-age people are "kids" - of course in many ways I was less mature 10 years ago than I am now, but I had a part time job when I was in college, as did my now-husband, and most of the people I know. if I had ever decided to skip work repeatedly or not do what i was asked to do I would have been fired- and I was mature enough to know that and not take advantage of my employer. if i didn't, I would have had to learn one of life's lessons: be responsible and do what you are being paid to do or be replaced. by the time you are twenty years old, you should be able to handle that concept. if not, you learn it quickly, or you spend the rest of your life in bitter disappointment.

and btw, by the time I was in college, I had been babysitting for nearly ten years and didn't have a sense of entitlement the size of the atlantic ocean, in fact I was grateful to have a job at all, as it helped my pay my way through college. i've known many high school and college-aged people whom I think are fantastic sitters, and plenty of adults whom I wouldn't leave my kid with for 5 minutes. i'm sorry if you disagree, "seriously, people."

glad to read your update, moxie, and i hope the new sitter is wonderful with your boys. unfortunately we don't need full-time care at this time!

[ALG]

I didn't know that you shouldn't throw water on an electrical fire. I do know that fires go out on their own if deprived of oxygen, so when I accidentally set fire to a pizza bagel in my microwave oven in college, I left the microwave door closed and it went out on its own.

Re. money for sitters--I would think that someone who was a professional, full-time, certified caregiver would/should be paid differently than a high school or college kid. When I was babysitting as a high school student 15 years ago, I made about $4/hour. In college (in Boston) I made $8/hour. Now, when I babysit on occasion, I make $10/hour (in NYC). I probably could have charged more in college and now, but since I mostly babysit as a favor to neighbors and relatives, I don't charge more. I'm mostly doing it for relatives because I like hanging out with their kid. She's great. The money is a nice bonus and it makes even the exhausted-running-ragged-at-the-playground stuff bearable. (I am a *fun* babysitter. I play ball and tag and push her on the swing. But, man, is it exhausting!)

I am not a parent, but Marie-Claire's comments were interesting and sounded like they might contain some truth to me.

Finally, a question: Would you chew out and then fire a babysitter for letting your 2-year-old toddler fall and hit her head on the playground? This happened to me when I was in high school, and I found the accusation that I hadn't been careful enough to be quite traumatic. The little girl was climbing up some stairs at the playground, I think, and I was standing right there. She looked stable so I wasn't holding onto her, and then she fell and hit her head, and when her mother saw the beginnings of the bruise/bump afterwards, she went ballistic.

[Shandra]

On the emotional/parent front, I think it is definitely the case that some parents do get lousy at their nanny for reasons of ambivalence. I worked as a nanny for two summers as a teen, and did have some weird experiences.

But my personal, anecdotal experience suggests that many more parents in my area have so much trouble finding care that is even marginally decent that they put up with things that down the road they may regret. It took me four months to find a part time nanny, at $15/hr where there hours had to be "in two or three chunks, anytime between 9-5 M-F, but the same ones each week" - pretty flexible. Fortunately she is fantastic.

ALG - I would not have a problem with it as long as I heard about it from the babysitter first, unless my child beat him/her to it by seconds. (And as long as it wasn't happening every day; that would raise a red flag to me.) I know that toddlers have accidents. :) If I discovered the bump or bruise on my own, that would be it for that babysitter though, because head injuries need to be watched for hours later and I would need to know. I went over this with my nanny at the start so that she knew that was a bottom-line issue for me.

[laura]

RE: Marie-Claire's comment: I worked as a live-in and live-out nanny for over 4 years while a student and agree that there are some very complicated emotional issues that can muddy the water in the childcare relationship. It is NOT a traditional employment relationship in any sense because of those issues.

My best nanny experiences were with women who were up-front about how hard it was for them to leave their child(ren) with me. Interestingly, these women were also the most trusting and flexible-- AFTER we had a trial period together. I also found out later that one of the women had her friends' nannies "watching" me. But I wasn't offended since these were her children, after all-- and when I worked retail there were secret shoppers and security cameras, after all.

Now that I am a parent, I have to keep reminding myself that my daughters' care providers *will* handle things differently than I would, and that it will be ok. That it is even good for her.

As a relatively inexperienced nanny, I potty trained a very recalcitrant 3 year old NOT because I am a genius but because I was SOMEONE DIFFERENT, and because I cared, but not in an emotional way that a parent cares. I wanted her potty trained because I wanted to be able to have fun with her on outings without diapers. Totally practical, and I approached the training as a practical problem to be solved. And, viola! That level of professional detachment is a *good* thing if paired with genuine respect and affection for the child and an understanding of developmental phases.

Finally, the "best" working relationship that I had also featured a parent who asked me to read the "Your 3 Yr old..." books that Moxie recommends. She was very clear that she felt that the books had a lot to offer and that if I was going to work there she wanted me to have read them.

[Amy]

I thought it was a *grease* fire you couldn't throw water on...

I think Marie-Claire isn't totally off the mark (though I disagree with the motivations for moving children from one situation to another). While my kids' care-giver situations have always been in daycares, I do need to reassure myself frequently that *I* am the mommy, not their care-givers. And while I want them to have a good day at school, it's always a little heart-breaking when my daughter says, "I'm not ready to be picked up yet." For, as Marie-Claire indicates... I want her to be happy at school, but not so happy that she's not happy to see me. Does that make sense? Does that make me selfish? Maybe.

And for three years in college I spent every afternoon caring for an elementary age boy until his parents came home from work. Yes, I sat on the couch doing my homework while he did his... but we also shot hoops, played with the cats, ran errands for his school projects, went to baseball practice, etc. His parents counted on me to be there when carpool dropped him off... and I was NEVER late. He had bad asthma and his parents counted on me to give him his breathing treatments when he came home wheezing. Done. College kids certainly can be responsible... and should be when they've been hired to do a job... any job.

[abby]

mostly a lurker here, and somewhat removed from teh issue since I have my mom and her husband to do most babysitting.

But I did work as a nanny throughout college for a set of twins, and it was very complicated b/c the mom was actually at home (she had physical disability issues which required my presence in the home). I really liked working with the kids (90% of the time!) but in general she and I really had to learn to trust each other (for her that I would take care of her kids well, for me that she would treat me like an adult and not her servant). It really worked out well, and I was very sad to leave the family when I graduated.

The wierdest time for us was when the shaken baby British aupair case was going on in Boston (where we were). She was watching the coverage daily and it did spark some strange conversations (and made me glad that the twins were old enough that it wasn't an issue for us)

[Rayne of Terror]

I am so glad we have a good daycare after reading the comments. I consider Henry's teachers to be my partners. There is at least one teacher w/ a BA or BS in every classroom. His current teacher has 25+ years experience w/ 2 y/os. That has tremendous benefits for me to be able to ask questions of her when we have developmental rough patches. It also has caused a couple problems due to out of date practices re intact boys. I brought in Dr. Sears Baby Book w/ the section on circumcision and intact care flagged and every teacher who diapers in the facility read it. That said a lot to me that they were willing to learn from a parent as well.

I will be bummed out when we have to leave that daycare in August when I start working a job where the school is too far out of the way.

[liphovela]

I do have a kid and a full time nanny who I am basically very happy with (very reliable, caring, responsive and going at the Bay Area market rate of $14/hr) and I will say that I think Marie-Claire has got something here.

I want my kid to be happy with the nanny-- but when he is too happy I worry that he never expects me to be around because I am so "absent."

I want the nanny to have lots of flexibility, because I do trust her and I think that her children are extremely well brought up. But sometimes I think she is too old-school w.r.t. handling tantrums etc.

I love that my son has a taste for spicy Thai food and understands some Mien-- but I worry because the nanny does not read to him.

Etc. etc. etc. the relationship is a fraught one. One's own guilt inhibits seeing clearly. This is just tough.

[Kate]

To ALG, I'd have to fire myself (as a mother). My daughter has always been very active and adventurous and a bit ahead of the curve physically. Last year at just about 2 yo she was running on the playground, tripped and fell nose-first into a piece of equipment. Swollen, bruised, X-rays at the hospital to rule out a broken nose, the whole deal. Active kids get banged up. It happens.

I agree with Shandra, though--I'd want to know upfront from the sitter. My daughter has come home from preschool with bumps and bruises every once in a while, and it drives me crazy that I have to ask what happens instead of being told. I am not going to be angry--kids get scrapes and whatever playing outside or scuffling with classmates--but I'd like to know so that I can have an objective view instead of whatever comes in through her lens of reality.

[Melis]

My daycare provider runs an in-home facility, is licenced and follows the food plan the state provides as well as plays, teaches, entertains and LOVES the kids she has in her home, all for $4 an hour. *I* made $4/hr when I was babysitting back in the late 80's.

I don't think it's always about the money. If you have someone who truly loves what they do, the money is a non-issue.

Moxie, I think you were totally right on for canning her. Making you late for your job because she can't be on time for hers is completely unprofessional.

[brandie]

just have to say, sarcastically, that my poor little mister must have it *awful* as BOTH his parents are twenty-something, full-time college students. thanks for sticking up for your readers, moxie!

[Cathy]

I considered it last summer. My daughter goes to a national chain center daycare. She's coming up on 4 1/2 now and started there when she was 20mos. When she was in the "little 3's" room - they had had some staff changes (2ce in 6 months) in the main teacher in her room, and there was a biter in her class. The teacher change was important because she lost two wonderful, engaged, sympathetic teachers in a short span and they were replaced with an unengaged, unsymapthetic one. My daughter was not the only biting victim but she was a regular one. And if it wasn't biting, there was some other meanness from this same perpetrator. Here's the intersection of the two characters: one time my daughter was bitten for the nth time and the teacher told her to bite the other girl back. (which she didn't want to do and that caused retaliation from the biter.) I ended up bringing up my concerns to the director, who explained that they were working through the steps with the biter that they had to go through and it made me feel a lot better about the situation. The mean teacher and the biter were both gone within a few weeks.

[Sam]

I love your blog, Moxie, I just haven't ever posted any comments. I am curious about previous babysitters you've had. I would love to hear about the good ones especially. I babysit for friends' kids and sometimes wonder if I'm doing a good job in their eyes. I generally love babysitting, but would like to hear more about what people really love about their babysitters. Thanks!