Q&A: daycare won't let baby cry to release tension before sleep

Jennifer writes:

"I have a one year old that does the same thing your second did; every time she goes to bed she will scream (like someone is trying to kill her) for a few minutes and then fall asleep. She HAS to do this or she will not sleep. It took me almost 8 months to figure that out. I just want to know how long this lasts because she is in daycare and they won't let her scream (they really can't for the sake of everyone else) so she doesn't nap well. Every night I have a tired, cranky baby and I just want to see her when she's happy. I don't have other childcare options right now and I haven't found a solution for her to get more sleep during the day. Please tell me this won't go on forever!"

That's a coincidence, because my babysitter won't let my younger one cry at all ever, so he's been getting really awful naps for the past two weeks. Today it was half an hour. At least in your situation they have a valid reason for not going along with what the kid needs.* (I appreciate my babysitter's desire to comfort my son, but it's really counterproductive because it takes him under 3 minutes of crying and then he drops off like a boulder for two hours plus.)

I wonder if there's any way they could separate her from the other kids during nap time and have her in a room she could scream in. Or figure out some other way to help her release the tension. She's too young to be able to just run around until she drops (I've seen some kids do almost exactly that--they run and run and run and then sit down and within 2 minutes they're asleep).

I wonder if getting her laughing would serve the same purpose?

Clearly, I'm grasping for straws here. Does anyone else have any ideas? I just don't know what to do about a kid who really just needs to wait for a few minutes but can't. I think eventually she'll learn to fall asleep somehow (millions of kids survive non-optimal naps sleep situations--ask any mother of two how the second one gets the nap shaft), but there's got to be some way to ease her into falling asleep without howling and waking the other kids.

I just can't think of it yet.

 

* If you weren't reading for my discussion about some kids needing to cry briefly to release some tension before falling asleep this all won't make sense. I'm too lazy to go find the original post about it, but this one also contains my completely unoriginal "at least two kinds of kids" theory about crying to sleep.

Comments

[LauraC]

I have 11 month old twins, one who needs to cry to release tension and one who does not. I worried about sending them to day care, but from a lot of reading and discussions with day care teachers, mothers, etc, I found that babies develop different sleep associations depending on where they sleep.

My conversations with day care have always been this - I don't care HOW you get him to sleep, but he HAS to sleep. When he was smaller, they put him in a swing until he was asleep. Now when he's overtired, they take him for a buggy ride with other kids. He never sleeps as much at day care as he does at home, but he doesn't come home cranky. When all else fails, we take him outside for a walk right when we get home and that puts him in a good mood.

A good day care will work with to you figure out a solution. After all, they are professionals at what they do and see a large number of very different babies.

[Heather AKA Epiphany Alone]

My 11-month-old crier settles quicker with a "lovey". She finds knit blankets especially soothing. It cut the screaming time from about 5 minutes to about a minute.

[flea]

My son is not a crier, but I share the complaint about daycare sleep problems. Our issue is, they don't put the infants down for regular naps at all - just let them fall asleep and wake up when they feel like it. This is a fine strategy for a tiny baby, IMO, but a lot of infants 6 months old or older do really well with a schedule. Also, you'd think if you were the two teachers in a room of 8 infants, you'd want to get it so they'd sleep on regular schedules!

Mostly my son is flexible enough that I think he's getting enough sleep at day care (and he goes to bed by 7pm), but it's certainly bizarre to see his daily note saying "napped 10:15-11:30" one day, "napped 1:05-3:30" another day, and "napped 10:45-11:30, 2:30-4:00" a third day. They do start making everyone lie down for naps at the same time every day when they move to the toddler rooms (age around 15 months - they have to be walking well). Anybody worked in group daycares and can explain this?

[Maman_du_Petrus]

Our son (20 months old) goes to daycare since he was 12 months old. Eleven babies in the room, all under 2 when the year started in september. They all go for a nap at 10h and for another one at 3h30. If they do the same at your daycare and all nap at teh same time, I would ask them to put your child down first, let her scream to sleep, and then start putting down the other ones.

When our son slept for 45 minutes, they would say how a great napper he is, although at home he sleeps for 1h30 twice a day. Most kids did 20 minutes or not at all (its written on the board). I can't imagine how tired they came back home. My point is, our son takes naps of a different length and probably falls asleep in a different way (they put the radio on in the sleeping room there, for white noise I suppose, while I was a "total silence" freak for the first 12 months of his life at home!). It showed in the beginning, he was more tired after daycare than during the week end, etc...but he adjusted by sleeping-in just a little longer in the morning and we put him to bed 20-30 minutes earlier when we saw that happenning at daycare. He adjusted and grew out of it and is not tired by the shorter nap now (actually he takes just one nap a day now at daycare). Maybe your baby will adjust the nightime sleep to get a 24 hour total that is equivalent to what she had before?

[Kelli]

Here is the original post about the 2 different "sleep" personalities:
http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006/06/babies_and_cio.html

I actually had it bookmarked so that I can reference it for my daughter who will be born in July. Damn, I wish I would have had that post for when my son was smaller. It would have went a LONG way in feeling better about what we were doing. Our son was the "gains tension by crying" personality. We actually just went with our instincts and simply comforted our son by any means necessary. However, we received LOADS of criticism for that and were accused of spoiling him and "training" him to cry. I even heard the word "manipulating" a few times. After awhile, I just kept quiet about my frustrations because it was apparent that folks thought it was MY fault. It was really hard to be a new mother and to feel like I was doing something wrong, when it actually felt right.

Guess what? Our now 18 month old sleeps just fine, through the night, in his crib (assuming no illness, teething or Christmas Extravaganza Stimulation).

In general, your sleep posts are simply excellent because they always allow for the fact that babies are individuals. What a concept, eh?

[Debbie]

I don't have any words of wisdom but just wanted to commiserate on the crap sleep at daycare. At my son's daycare, they try and work with the schedule you provide and do put them in the crib when they are tired. However, my son has trouble sleeping unless it is quiet and calm and there is always so much to look at in the daycare that I am lucky if he naps more than 30 minutes at a time. I've resolved myself to just dealing with it until he moves up to the next room -- where they do have set quiet time and turn out the lights for those.

[geobrarian]

My one week shy of 1 year old daughter has been in daycare since she was 4 months old, and we've faced similar challenges there. When she was younger and could fall asleep on her own with barely a whimper, it was particularly frustrating for me. It's a difficult balance because group daycare works best when no one child upsets the cart. That said, it seems like some of her compatriots can sleep through a fire drill whereas my girl naps lightly, stirs/screams around the 40 minute mark and if left to her own devices, promptly resettles herself for a second cycle.

I have no real advice for you. I've just had to let it go, focus our energies on her night sleeping and weekend naps, and hope (like LauraC mentioned) that she understands the difference between daycare and home: at home she settles herself with her bear and her frog, but at daycare she is rocked to sleep and often held for the entire nap.

Incidentally, yesterday was a special "messy" day at daycare (because the others aren't?) with lots of outside time, and for the first time ever she slept for an hour in the morning, an hour in the afternoon. Maybe some well-timed outside time could help in your situation?

[Jan]

For Moxie: I'd be inclined to not accept "won't" from my babysitter. If you ask her to let him cry for a few minutes before he falls asleep, it seems like that's what she would do. Is that just me?

For Jennifer: Why can't the daycare let her scream? I find it hard to imagine that they have a cry-free policy ... I've tried instituting one at home and the kids just refuse to cooperate. (Ba-dump-bump) I was just thinking that if their policy precludes just letting her cry, maybe you could direct them to some sort of "soothing" that doesn't interfere with her process. Like ... rubbing her back or playing some music? Something just so they could feel like they were doing something, but in reality they would just be letting her do her own thing. Does that make sense?

My daughter would never in a million years have taken a nap ever in a daycare (as a baby -- she might now, I don't know) because if she can see another person, she ain't sleeping. Period. We had to take daycare off the table when I found out that even the in-home places aren't legally allowed to put the kid in another room with the door closed.

Good luck!

[Charisse]

It's really tough balancing the group situation--I've had the opposite problem, but same negotiations. At age 2 1/2 Mouse would nap for 2 hours in the toddler room at daycare, long after she stopped napping at all at home, and she'd be so fired up she couldn't get to sleep until 10 or 10:30...which would be a horrible cycle because then she'd be tired the next day and take a long nap and...ugh. There was one teacher there who was happy to do puzzles or art with her during naptime, but after he left the situation got pretty unbearable because the long nap would happen on a daily basis. By the end of some weeks bedtime was after 11pm.

They categorically refused to prevent her from napping if she chose to, which I (sort of) understood...but after I spoke to the head teacher in detail about what we were dealing with at bedtime, they agreed to always offer her an alternative activity, and limit her naps to an hour. I was never sure how aggressive they were about offering the activity--probably not as much as I would have liked...but they mostly remembered to wake her and it didn't seem to bother the other kids. This got the situation back to semi-bearable at home, as with a 45-60 minute nap she would go to bed before 10 most nights. (Mouse graduated from there 2 weeks ago, and is spending the interim before Montessori starts on June 1 with a very active nanny. She has not had a nap since, and has gone down by 8:30 or 9 every night. Yippeee!!)

It took some real convincing and a meeting with the head teacher to get to bearable--they were very much in the mode of "more naps is better for kids", but once they understood the individual child's needs clearly (and I was very friendly, but very explicit about what was happening to the family), they were willing to change even though it messed with the teachers' routines. And it wasn't perfect, but it was better.

[michelle]

my son cries before he sleeps most of the time. lately i have given him his lovey and patted him on the back for a minute or so and down he goes. he'll cry most of the time for 30 sec- 3 minutes. reading a book everytime before a nap helps too. i try to put him down after he's awake for 4-5 hours.
so at 20 months it's up at 8, eat, snack at 10/11 and nap at noonish, wake at 3 and lunch....
we will not sleep if he hears anything else goin on or if he sees someone. i do have teh cd playing to drown out household noise.
if you can't separate teh kid into separate room, can they put up a partion or sheet or curtain to blocking their view of others?

[Lisa]

I agree with Jan. If the daycare is worth staying with, they'll be flexible and work WITH you. I know there are other kids, but I'm sure they can work out a compromise like Jan suggested. Maybe even trying to put your daughter down a little before the other babies. That way her crying won't disturb their sleep processes.

Even if you feel safe with the current daycare, maybe it's time to take a step back and look closely. Because if they can't work with you on naps, how will they handle bigger issues?

[Mary]

Does your daycare do scheduled naps for all the babies at the same time? If this is the case, why couldn't they put your daughter down 10 or 15 minutes before the other babies in the same room? This would give her the opportunity to release her tension and sleep without disturbing other babies. Just a thought.

[Elizabeth]

I don't have an answer to her dilemma, unfortunately, but I just wanted to post an observation I've had: kids can be BOTH types (the tension-escalators and tension-releasers), depending...

My daughter has always been the tension-escalator type; if she wakes in the night and I don't get there immediately the crying gets worse and worse and takes on hysteria quicker than a freight train gaining speed.

However, I've noticed that *if I keep her up too long* she wants to sleep so bad that she will wear herself out physically and often tantrum and then she will fuss herself to sleep...it's like you describe with El P, 3 minutes of fuss (not really crying, but unpleasant sounds!) and then drops off like a boulder. TOTALLY tension releasing.

This has been interesting to note...I used to never let her fuss but now if I think she needs it I don't intervene too much. Full on crying is not normal for her, though, so I do attempt to console her if the fussing escalates to real cries.

[monkeygirl]

We usually have the opposite problem: the ladybug naps for 1.5-2 hours at daycare but does 40 min at most at home. I wish I could replicate whatever goes on there at naptime... Regardless, I find discussing "problems" with the daycare provider to be one of the most awkward things I've ever had to do.

[mijk]

Thats why my baby sleeps in the garden at daycare .. (in a little sleepinghouse)... Much better for everyone..

[jennifer]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will ask about putting her down first - that might help. Just to clarify: At home she was on a strict schedule because she wouldn't tell me she was tired. I put her down about the same time everyday and she screams or cries for about 5 minutes and drops off. The more tired she is the longer she cries so I have to catch her early. At home she takes a morning and afternoon nap. At daycare there is too much going on and she won't take a morning nap (none of the other babies will either). They put all the babies down at the same time everyday and turn down the light. My daughter sleeps in the only crib in the small room but it's not really enough separation for her. She really needs a quiet room to herself and two naps, which I really won't get in a daycare situation. So anyway, they will work with me to the extent they are able but like one reader said, I have resigned myself to waiting it out because I don't have other options right now. I plan to switch to home care in a few months so hopefully things will get better then. Again, thanks for the suggestions.

[jennifer]

Oh, Moxie, I forgot I wanted to mention something for your situation. Like I said it took me 8 months to figure out what my daughter needed and it was because I REFUSED to let her cry. When I finally was so sleep deprived that I was hallucinating I put her in a room by herself and shut the door. It was magic! Overnight I had an excellent napper and a cheerful baby. Maybe if you can point out that letting him scream will make HER day easier she will be more likely to try it. I don't know, maybe say something like "I hated to let him cry, but when I did we were both so much happier". That's pretty much the line I've given everyone who freaks out that I let her cry. Good luck!

[Melissa]

Whoa! Jennifer says her daughter sleeps in the only crib?? What ages are these other babies? Little alarms are going off in my brain when I hear things like "None of the other babies take a morning nap". While every state differs, most infants are classified at 18 months or younger and most states require that each infant have their own crib for naps. Most states also require that infants are kept apart from older toddlers. My day care requires that your baby be able to handle only one nap a day before they will move them over into the toddler room. I have had good day cares and bad ones. The bad ones were to places that presented me with a cranky baby when I picked her up at 5 om every day and didnt seem interested in how to change that.

[jennifer]

Melissa - I've never heard that before about requiring cribs. I guess that's not a law here (Idaho) and the daycare she's in is the best rated in town. It's attached to the university I attend. All the other babies sleep in bouncers or on mats on the floor. That doesn't work for my daughter so they use the crib. There are 8 babies, most are 12-15 months. I think there is one 17 month and one 10 month old. Probably about a month ago they stopped trying to get them to take a morning nap. The other babies seem fine with it but obviously mine is not. I'm trying to find other options because I think they just have too many babies in too small of a room (although they are within the state guidelines). Also, my DD absolutely needs quiet, alone time for naps and she can't get that there. I will check into the rules for cribs - there is no way they have room for that many though.

[Sarah]

I just wanted to post something from a daycare workers perspective, although there are a couple tangents going. First, most daycares will let the kid cry for at least a bit as long as it isn't excessive. A child screaming for longer than ten minutes can keep the rest of the children up, not to mention the headache everyone else gets. The majority of us really do like the children and are there for the children (you will find very few of us who are in it for the money).

As for problems with daycares not keeping children up who's parents don't want them to nap, well thats a big issue for everyone. Daycares need naps so that employees can take breaks. When all children are sleeping you can have less people in the room watching them. The ratio doubles so that a two staff member room can have just one staff member there. In addition to trying to follow state regulations and still getting to eat, nap time is prep time. That's when we get the little notes home written, and the lesson plans written, and crafts prepared and the toys scrubbed. If we are occupied by a child who should be napping on a daily basis, suddenly we are not able to get those things done. Now we have one parent happy, and several others unhappy because we aren't getting a lot of other important things done.

It really is a big dilemma. So it's not that we don't have your child's best interests in mind, its that there are many other things that need to be considered.

[mark]

let the baby cry. I let my daughter cry it out, and she falls asleep. Just do it, and dont act like wimps. crying wont hurt the baby, it lets the baby know that you're not always going to be there putting the baby to sleep.

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Our son (20 months old) goes to daycare since he was 12 months old. Eleven babies in the room, all under 2 when the year started in september. They all go for a nap at 10h and for another one at 3h30. If they do the same at your daycare and all nap at teh same time, I would ask them to put your child down first, let her scream to sleep, and then start putting down the other ones.

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It really is a big dilemma. So it's not that we don't have your child's best interests in mind, its that there are many other things that need to be considered.

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We usually have the opposite problem: the ladybug naps for 1.5-2 hours at daycare but does 40 min at most at home. I wish I could replicate whatever goes on there at naptime... Regardless, I find discussing "problems" with the daycare provider to be one of the most awkward things I've ever had to do.

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[Evelyncita]

When my toddler was 10mos, he took 2 naps a day. One in am and one in the afoetnorn. They were about 1-2 hrs. each. So he napped about 3 hrs out of the day. When he was obviously worn out in the evening, I would put him in his crib (around 8 or 9) and he would fuss maybe 2minutes and roll over and go right to sleep. It was great!!He's 23mos. now, and we just put him to bed by himself, and he goes right to sleep no fussing. This is because that's what we got him accustomed to. It took patience and hard work for the first couple of weeks, but you CAN train a baby. Just gradually wean him down on the daytime naps, and also gradually teach him to lay down himself at night. EXAMPLE: put him to bed at 8 or so, let him cry 4-5 min. before you go to soothe him. The next night wait 6-7 min., and a little longer each night. He will eventually adapt to being alone in bed, or tire out and give up on fussing. Just make sure he's sleepy when you put him down .that's the key!

[Fabio]

My son is 8 months old and he slepes anywhere from 3 5 hours a day. My theory on it is that sleep begets sleep and also, studies have shown that the more your baby slepes, the bigger the brain. That is GOOD! It's not an issue of how much he is sleeping it is WHEN he is sleeping. Try to make sure he is up at least 2-3 hours before his bedtime. To keep them up, just make sure there are a variety of activities for them to do. Keep him well fed, entertained and change things up once in awhile so that he doesn't get bored. Good luck!

[Kristine]

yes ur 10 month old sleeps to much eeacsply if he is hard to get to sleep at night. my 15 month old son some times takes 3 30min naps some times a little longer. and hes hard to get to sleep at night some times. my other son is 2 months and sleeps like 5-6 hrs in the day time hes not easy to get to sleep at night either but he sleeps threw the night

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