Everyone, please go watch all the muddy fun in the video for "Jump Into The Mud Puddle" by my friend Leo's Mom, who does real classic rock-y music for kids.
I need to apologize for the sparse posting this week. My mother has been here visiting, and we've been so busy I fell way behind on everything I normally do.
Which leads me to my big question: How do you all negotiate parenting boundaries with your own parents or in-laws? My mom and I have never talked about it, but I feel like the way we work together is perfect for us. She's always let me be the mother, but she does step in when I'm not right there or she notices something I'm missing. And I expect the kids to obey her, especially in her house. She makes the rules there, and I back her up. In my house, the rules are mine, and she enforces them if I'm not already doing it.
My dad has been slowly starting to take more responsibility with and for my kids, as I encourage him to.
Do others of you have the same kind of give-and-take with your parents? Or are you having a harder time negotiating how to relate to each other and the kids? If you feel like you've got a handle on it, how did you do it?
With me, I don't think any of it has been me. I think my parents decided a long time ago that since I was an adult they would just relate to me as an adult, and that's facilitated the lack of posturing. It's all been their ability to release control.
Talk to us.
Oh boy, I've been waiting for this one. It's a doozy for us. My MIL takes care of our baby 3 days a week in our home. From the very beginning we've had issues, some small, a few big, of sharply conflicting methods and beliefs. A few times these have boiled over into hurt feelings. It's very, very tricky. Lately I have been trying to hang on to what I hold most dear, which is not my belief in whole foods, or positive discipline, or no TV, or organic what-have-you, but my own memory of my very warm and tender relationship with my grandmother, a relationship that is still very strong. I see that starting to happen between my MIL and my daughter. It helps me keep things in focus. But I won't lie--I still have moments of anxiety when I worry about my MIL "ruining" my daughter somehow. The very fact that my daughter worships her so will make it easier (I sometimes think) for my daughter to someday be hurt by, say, her grandmother's critical comments about my daughter's body. Thinking too far ahead? Maybe, but it's only because I have seen MIL do this to other people.
Interestingly, the whole dynamic with my MIL causes more worry for my husband than for me. I often have to talk him down from real anger and frustration.
I can't wait to hear what others say, and I might have to chime in again later when I am not here at work!
Posted by: arb | February 02, 2007 at 02:32 PM
That's much the way we work, but my mom was a bit more 'caretaking' of me to start. That is, she desperately didn't want me to make the same mistakes she did, so she stepped in to prevent them. Here, let me... I can do this ... Not like that, do it like ...
Um. NO. I'll admit that I let her get away with it until I was really fed up, and without any preamble, stomped on her feelings really hard. I let her walk riiiiight over that boundary, and then when she thought she had a place there, I knocked her back with a 2-by-4 to the head, pretty much. You are NOT the mother, you would have hated this if you were in my shoes, I am the mommy now, get it? MY TURN. NOT YOURS. About 15 minutes of that, straight.
Ouchies.
She said, okeeee... backing up now! Nursed her feelings for a bit. Came back and said, you're right, I'd have hated that. I was trying to be the mom to your child, I really was. Mea culpa. Mom is a role I've done for so long... I thought being a grandma was just the same. It apparently isn't. Can we start over? Assume that I'm as new to being a grandmother as you are to being a mom. Now how can we do this together?
All score on her side, for that. I was still feeling trod upon when she came back with that. But it worked. I told her that I needed her as a resource, but I'd ask for it. I'd want to call her when I wasn't sure if I should call the doctor. She asked what she could do for me, what did I need for my kids that she could provide?
That's when I got my points back, evensies! I thought about it, and it was immediately clear. I said, "I've got so many resposibilities as a mother. Health, education, discipline, social rules, on and on and on... can you be in charge of Enchantment? That's something that will be hard for me to make part of my kids lives while I'm trying to do everything else. I'll do some, I'd like more."
Well, that was perfect. She's been in charge of Enchantment ever since. In every possible way. Her yard is a children's nature garden. She takes them to museums, theater, movies, and parks. She teaches them about myths, she takes them to Sunday School, she helps them catch fireflies. She has evenings that are just 'life as it was 100 years ago', or takes them on dress-up parades around the block ('let's go amaze the neighbors!'), or teaches them to make cookies, or tells them the story of them from the Universe's point of view. She teaches them about stars, giant squid, fairies, and their heritage. Anything wondrous is fair game!
And yes, her house, her rules. She keeps an eye out for issues that she's seeing there, and passes those on to me. She's willing to learn 'better' discipline approaches (she freely admits that I'm a better mother than she was, and I freely admit that I could never have been this good if not for her example). We, as you can probably tell from that, build each other up as a rule.
My dad, we see less often. He's fond of babies, but finds people increasingly puzzling as they get older. He tries to insert things of interest into their experience, challenges their brains, and otherwise keeps as much out of it as possible. He doesn't feel qualified to even comment. For which I've taken him to task - he's got a brain, and eyes, if he's confused or concerned, and if he loves me, he'd better speak up. I don't take 'staying out of it' lightly. It's cowardly, IMHO - what, he's going to let me blow it terribly without saying ANYTHING? He's smart enough to be able to say it well, and I'm secure enough to be able to listen, consider, and take action as I see fit.
My IL's are in-between. Their house, their rules, but they hesitate to enforce, so we have to. They support, they don't back-stop... they don't do as much with the kids, but what they do is really cool (Grandpa right now is building hand-made catapults with the boys when we visit, and they both took the older two to see a show, and did the extra prep work to get the kids the chance to WORK the show - Handing out programs, ushering, and cleaning up ... followed by a back-stage tour, and a copy of the book the play was based on... really cool!)...
All in all, not a bad experience at all. But I did have that initial 'okay, whose child is this ANYWAY?' thing with my mom. Once we were past that, things worked pretty well. She's my model for what I want to be as a grandma, as much as she is for my mothering. Though I don't think I'll be able to outpace her grandparenting the way I have with mothering... she's amazing.
Posted by: hedra | February 02, 2007 at 02:45 PM
So far it's worked itself out. When grandparents are visiting, they respect our house rules, and it's defintely easier because we are raising our son more or less the same way we were raised. When we are visiting grandparents, we're more relaxed about the rules, but that's only because we live so far away and visit only once or twice a year. He's old enough now to understand that different houses can have different rules, and I have fond memories of being spoiled by my grandparents.
There are a few things that are non-negotiable, like speaking respectfully to others, usual bed time, and some sort of fruit or vegetable at every meal, but beyond that, I let them spoil him. So he eats waffles and orange slices for dinner, or goes to the toy store every other day, or never has to walk because my sister doesn't mind carrying him all over down town DC. He knows that happens at Noni and Nono's house, not at mama and papa's house.
Posted by: Maria | February 02, 2007 at 02:49 PM
You know, this has been a lot less of a problem than I thought it would be. The major problem has been "dear God, no, she can't eat that!" (ice cream at nine months when she'd shown milk sensitivity and the we were giving her no milk, for example). Less of a problem now as we've done more experimenting and figured out her triggers pretty well. My parents do have problems dealing with me as an adult, but becoming a mother especially has helped. They are surprisingly respectful, asking "can she do X? Can we give her Y? Would this be okay as a Christmas present?" I have worries down the line when it comes to discipline and their relative harshness to my more relaxed approach.But mostly, they are a good fit with her and completely enamored, and she is with them as well. I can deal with a hyper, wild, sugared up kid if she's having the Best Time Ever at her grandparents' house. I figure it's payback for them not putting me out on the curb for bulk pickup when I was a snotty teen.
We don't see my inlaws enough for them to be a problem. I wouldn't consider them warm people, but my do they love that little girl.
Posted by: AmyinMotown | February 02, 2007 at 03:00 PM
THIS is a hot topic for me, and I was going to email it to you....you beat me too it.
My mother and father watch my daughter (17 mon) 3 days a week. (they work from home) The other 2 days she's in daycare. It's very hard. Me and my mother have a great "friendship", but we don't agree on everything. It's hard to say - her rules in her house. My rules in mine. Because my daughter is there 3 days a week all day!
She'll SAY things like "Your the mother!!!" unless it's something that she doesn't agree with, and then ..... well SHE'S the mother (mine anyway) and she knows best.
It has yet to blow up. The only major problems that we have to date is:
1. My daughter doesn't nap well there because my mother REFUSES to keep her on a schedule. And will NOT let her cry at all!! (I'm not a CIO person, but a little crying at this age is ok, in my opinion. This has gotten a tad bit better recently - only after CONSTANT nagging by me after getting a WAY over tired toddler when I go to pick her up. She still tells me how she DOESN'T agree and how she shouldn't have to PUT her to bed, she should just go to sleep when she's tired.)
2. My mother doesn't like taking medicine. So often my mother will "forget" to give my daughter cold medicine. Instead she will make her suffer (my opinion) through a runny nose all day.
Hopefuly some of your readers (or you) will have some ideas for me.
Posted by: Maniacal | February 02, 2007 at 03:11 PM
Boy, this is a tough one! We have 3 sets of parents (mine are still together, Mr. C's divorced before he was 3 and have their own partners). One lives nearby and the others live short plane flights away. The married partners mostly stay out of it and have fun with Mouse when they visit. Of our biological parents, my dad and my MIL have healthy boundaries and respect for those of others. My mom and my FIL, eh, not so much. That was tough before we had a child.
My mom is a retired OB and was extremely hurt and angry that I waited to tell her about my pregnancy (or even that we were trying) until I was through the first tri...it's still a sore point, but the way she's handled it really reinforces my decision. I also did not invite her to the birth (nor anybody else except our doula...and this is mainly because I know of her taking over inappropriately at other births she's attended as a friend) and asked her to wait to visit the baby until we hit the 6-week mark (she's not the local one) We eventually came around to the conclusion that it's best if she stays at a local B&B, rather than with us, when she visits. She has very strong opinions about things and is very easily wounded--from the beginning most of our conversations about Mouse or about parenting turn into a direct comparison between her experience as a mother and mine, usually to the conclusion that I have it easy, but that I was a better baby and Mouse is cute but a pale shadow. (My sister got similar comparisons growing up, sadly.) Sucko. Now, that said, she is actually wonderful when interacting directly with Mouse, and Mouse adores her...and it's great for me to see her in that role and that light. I don't mind the your house your rules thing because our houses run pretty similarly...the only one I get concerned about is "offer her all the sugar you want, but offer her something else as well please" and "if she's crying don't laugh at her". Giving kids stuff that is too hard for them (or too hard for them when they're tired, say) and then seeing what they do when they get frustrated is something that my mom finds interesting. It means she introduces them to some cool stuff, but it drives me nuts that she giggles at them when they get frustrated. We sometimes get exhausted with the visits, but as long as we're not in the same house to sleep it's OK.
My FIL is most difficult because he's the local one and he really really wants to be helpful...or at least to be seen as helpful. Much like my mom, he's not big on information about what actually would be helpful, he just has certain things he really wants to do. He's wanted to babysit from day 1, but of all the grandparents he's had the most difficulty actually relating to Mouse. Mainly I think he's not a baby person...and partly he's had a lot of emotional problems and doesn't pick up anybody's cues all that well. BUT...he'd come over for a 2-hour visit "to see Mouse" and not say 5 words to her the whole time despite her efforts to get his attention, and then be hurt when we asked someone else to babysit. Right now it's out of the question because he's had some big depression and anxiety problems and we want to be solidly sure that he won't get a panic attack and crash while caretaking. But the interaction is getting much better as Mouse gets older, so I'm hopeful there.
I don't have much advice for others--I don't feel that I'm doing that well at this, or that this situation is that great...but I've had enough therapy to understand why I need strong boundaries with my own mom and that she won't respect them if I don't reinforce them. It might be nice to have someone I was closer to in that role, but she's the mom I have. And as I expected, she's a wonderful grandma and I appreciate it.
Posted by: Charisse | February 02, 2007 at 04:24 PM
At one time I worried about negotiating boundries with my MIL. She does a huge amount of caregiving for her other granddaughter (my husband's brother's daughter), and for a while I was worried that she would be a huge know it all about all things child related.
I was right that she would be a huge know it all; a hugely mis-informed know it all who is so comically off base with regard to what is developmentally appropriate (not to mention impatient, and emotionally volatile) that neither my husband or I feel the need to negotiate a damn thing with her. We never leave our daughter with her unsupervised for more than a few hours. The two times we did leave our daughter with her for a few hours, our daughter was sleeping. We plan on keeping this up by not leaving our kids with her, and ignoring her thoughts on child rearing.
My family is far more sensible, patient, and emotionally stable, and as such, we are more comfortable leaning on them once in a while for childcare. They listen to us, ask questions before feeding her something, and I completely trust them. We are anti-spanking, and so is my side of the family (My MIL is a spanker, which is why I will never leave my daughter with her). I tend to be a bit of a urban hippy, but it doesn’t get my hackles up if they feed her ice cream (no milk allergies) or a over-processed cookie.
Posted by: midwestmom | February 02, 2007 at 04:29 PM
Hedra, perhaps I misunderstand you, but are you saying that your father is a coward for not wanting to parent your children? How is that any of his responsibility, let alone any of his business? Why would you take him to task for avoiding a potential minefield of hurt feelings and overstepping boundaries?
Posted by: Rachel | February 02, 2007 at 04:35 PM
A. Your Mom is there -- blogging can wait.
B. I can't answer because my Mom passed away YEARS before my daughter was born; my Dad's just content to allow me to do whatever I want -- and my step-mom wouldn't DARE interfer!
3. I hope I'm as good a grandma as I was a Mom (no -- although my daughter is 26, I am not anticipating the grandchild thing anytime soon!)
Posted by: Kathy B. | February 02, 2007 at 05:37 PM
My parents have made the same sort of statement and behavior as Moxie's. They say, "you are the parents and you do it great and we want to be great grandparents, so tell us the rules." And they follow the directions we give them and are very helpful and respectful. They come over twice a month for visits or babysitting and have since Henry was 3 weeks old and he's two now. They encourage us to go out for dates and even helped by taking over one or two night during sleep training. No complaints whatsoever, everyone should be blessed to have their parents become such excellent grandparents.
Posted by: Rayne of Terror | February 02, 2007 at 05:47 PM
We've had a lot of practice in this department! Our families come from two extremes. My parents tend to be overly strict with the kids and make silly rules that are hard to follow. We have taught our kids that when they are at someone else's house they have to follow their house rules. It has been hard for them when my parents have so many rules that just don't make sense. As well, my parents live 4000 km away so when we visit it is for at least 2 weeks. I found myself just vibrating from the stress of keeping my kids in line after a few days and wasn't enjoying visiting. I'm really close to my parents so it was a big disappointment for me. I really felt like the rules and the ways of doing things were more important than just bonding with the kids and spending time with them. I had a number of honest talks with my parents and we were able to come to sensable compromises. Things are a lot easier now.
My in-laws, on the other hand love our kids to the point of obsession. They go way overboard with buying them gifts (upwards of 15-20 each for Christmas) and letting them do whatever they want. My FIL will often buy them candy at 9am, for example. After a couple of days visiting (they also live out of town) I can hardly stand my kids behaviour. My husband and I have had to really decide what are our key rules and then we don't give an inch on those rules. Safety, for example is an area we will not compromise. My FIL used to laugh at me when I tried to show him how to buckle up the kids carseats and then just do them however he felt like (he never did up the chest clip b/c it didn't seem "comfy"!). Every single time I would redo them and remind him how it needed to be done. We didn't let him drive our kids anywhere until he finally started buckling them in safely. I know he was really offended and though we were being silly but ultimately, our kids saftely is more important. I found being calm and pleasant but not giving an inch on the key issues helped. Eventually he figured out that we were the parents and that if he took our few concerns seriously that he could spend a lot more time with the kids.
My MIL was a lot harder because she doesn't have a sense of appropriate boundaries. When our first child was born she insisted that she be the first grandparent to visit (telling me my mom could wait until she left to see my first child!). She wanted to experience all of our kids firsts for herself and didn't consider that those would be moments we would want to have. For example, first time eating cereal, first haircut etc. She would actually push us out of the way and try to grab the moment. It was hard but I had to explain to her that she had already had the opportunity to raise 3 children and experience all the firsts and key milestones that go with them but that my husband and I were just starting and wanted to have those moments for ourselves. She was totally hurt but has backed down and let us participate our own children's milestones without a battle or a point needing to be made.
The best thing I have learned from all of our experiences is that they are our children and we have the right to decide what is best for them. We welcome and value our parent's input and participation but at the end of the day, they are our kids and we get the vito vote. Deciding between the two of us what is key and then not bending in those areas has been key for good relationships with our parents. Both sets of parents know that if we say no that we mean it and they no longer test us on it! We had to be honest and even pack up and leave a couple of times but everyone eventually got the point! Now our relationships are much easier and we enjoy visits from grandparents!
Posted by: Rachelg | February 02, 2007 at 07:04 PM
Rayne wrote:
"My parents have made the same sort of statement and behavior as Moxie's. They say, 'you are the parents and you do it great and we want to be great grandparents, so tell us the rules.' "
Wow. That is just amazing. I'd give anything to hear anything remotely like that from my MIL. My own mother has said on more than one occasion that she always assumed she and I would clash a lot over the baby (I tend to research and think things to death, and I have strong emotions and convictions about child-rearing). She freely admits that she was spoiled by my older sister, who pretty much let her do whatever she wanted with her two kids. But she says she has been pleasantly surprised that I am much less uptight than she had imagined I would be. She also said several times very sweet and complimentary things about how I think things through so carefully, and how it makes her shake her head at some of the choices she made. Those have been some of the most meaningful and appreciated things she has EVER said to me.
But my MIL, oh, she is another story. She's a retired health-care professional and a know-it-all of the highest order. I say that with love, believe me. I adore the woman. But her medical & pediatric knowledge can be woefully out of date (to wit: her obsession with getting our "weak-ankled" late walker in hard-soled shoes, to the point of flat out ignoring my very clearly-worded communications on the matter).
Like I said in my 1st comment above, though, I just try to remember that the most important thing is her very sweet and loving relationship wth the kiddo. But I do worry a lot about this fine line we tread getting much harder to negotiate as our baby gets older and the issues become more complex. I am sort of in awe, and even baffled, by those of you who've managed to take a firmer hand with your parents and in-laws.
Posted by: arb | February 02, 2007 at 09:34 PM
I'm like a lot of others, in that my parents and my in-laws are so very diffrerent. For us, it is an age issue as much as anything else. My husband is older than I am, with grown children, so when we had our baby what he did 20 years ago "the first time" is often different (sleeping on back, for instance). She wants to do things they way she's always done things, and thinks that what I want is foolish. It also doesn't help that I, too, tend to urban hippy-ness, and she was raised on a farm and is still very old-school in her thinking.
With my parents, I used the phrases "I hope to..." and "I hope to avoid..." instead of absolute declarations. If I say something declarative, my mother will say/do the opposite, just as a knee-jerk reaction. So, instead of saying "no french fries", I say "I hope to avoid giving the boy french fries until he can ask for them himself. In French." If I said no french fries, she would buy him them for breakfast.
Posted by: Julia | February 03, 2007 at 08:52 AM
Oh, man, I could write a book on this one.
My mother sounds a lot like Rachel G's MIL. My mother is obsessed with my two children, to the point that during my first marriage she and my dad would come over at the crack of dawn *each* xmas morning so they could be there to watch the kids open presents--same thing for Easter. She would come on hubby #1's family trips just so she wouldn't miss any important milestones in her grandchildren. I won't regale you with stories of the number of toys she buys or the lack of schedules they have when at her house. She'll let them stay up until they crash and then complain that they are difficult the next day. All of my requests to keep them on a schedule, not load them up on junk, not let them veg in front of the TV all day, etc. go ignored. We have fought and fought over this.
MIL #1 had her own bossy issues. She was from another culture and never hesitated to tell me how I was doing it wrong. I finally just began to laugh in her face when she would, for example, insist that I bundle the baby in 95 degree weather, or tell me my baby needed formula b/c the chunk wasn't getting enough of my milk. Whatever.
I'm pregnant with my third child (first with hubby #2) and MIL#2 is already set to pose problems. She's going to stay home with the baby--which is fine by me--but I know this is going to put a huge strain on our relationship. I'm not so much worried about her doing things my way b/c as an old pro at this baby thing, I know that it doesn't all have to be my way (okay, the schedule is important... but other stuff I can let go). But , for example, she's already making noise about what we'll call the baby. My hubby wants a junior, which is fine, but his name has lots of nickname possibilities and I've heard her say to him, "Don't call him such and such, call him X. That's much cuter." Um, okay... he's MY baby, I'll call him what I want to call him!!!
I'd give anything for Moxie's set up. My kids really adore my mother, but my mother has very little respect for me as a mother. And I'm a great mother, dammit!
Posted by: Amy | February 03, 2007 at 02:39 PM
My issue is feeding infants. My mother is from the "I did it for you and you turned out ok" school of thought and I am a lot more strict about what I feed my kids. I just had to tell her to ask me before she fed my kids anything. I know she does it just to humor me but at least I get what I want in the end. My in-laws are very good about not stepping on our toes and are great at being Grandparents.
Posted by: Melissa | February 03, 2007 at 11:26 PM
My mom and I just had our first run-in about this recently. Generally she's respectful of my parenting decisions, but sometimes she can be... uh... myopic when it comes to reading my cues. She's a pretty powerful personality and I would do almost anything to avoid being confrontational with her, but she felt very strongly that I should discipline my toddler a certain way, and told me so repeatedly when she was here for a visit -- I kept trying to express that her input was no longer welcome, she'd expressed her opinion and I appreciated that and now it was time to leave it alone, and thought she'd gotten the message... but clearly not, as she went home and wrote up a little plan for discipline and mailed it to me. I had to call her and explain very carefully that it wasn't about the advice (which was sound -- it always is), it was about the method of delivery -- she can express her thoughts once or twice on a certain subject, and then that is it unless I ask for more input.... because she was putting me in the position of a judged child facing disapproval from a parent, and that is one hell of a crappy place from which to receive advice, however constructively meant. Fortunately she got it, and I've resolved to be more direct when something like that pops up in the future.
Posted by: Shelley | February 04, 2007 at 01:22 PM
My relationship with my mom has been so good I feel like I shouldn't comment, but I suppose for a well-rounded view...we have a really nice relationship. We see each other almost every day, and we have since my daughter was born 5 years ago. She and my dad (married) are wonderful grandparents. They are helpful, great babysitters (even once-weekly overnights and vacations), friendly, caring, handy. When my daughter was born, we talked about baby stuff and infant care a lot and read the same articles and magazines. We tried things my way and her way. And figured out that we had to do things Miranda's way. LOL. My mom is a natural with small children, especially infants. But I never felt like she was stealing my thunder or getting in my way. It has been lovely.
I can honestly say I have had more issues with how my mom loads the dishwasher or mates socks. We're planning on moving into one bigger house to save on all the drive-time between our houses and make it easier for my husband and I to take care of my parents as they get older. That may be more challenging.
My in-laws passed on before the kids were born. So that does leave us without the some of the competition issues that some people face having multiple grandmas to please.
Posted by: Sarah | February 04, 2007 at 11:49 PM
Whatever my issues with my parents or in-laws (only mild annoyances)--NOTHING tops my coworker whose MIL taught her grandchildren to call her "Mommy". Yikes!
Posted by: Rudyinparis | February 05, 2007 at 10:36 AM
My parents have been great... they adore my daughter, and are sure to consult me re. what to feed her, and her schedule. There is a chance of some spoiling. I let my mom buy what she wants for now-- my daughter just turned one, so doesn't notice that Grandma always shows up w/ a gift. I've spoken to my mom about it, and she's trying to curb the impulse. My in-laws live 4000 miles away, and have only seen my daughter 2x in her life. They call weekly, and send gifts. Frankly, I'm glad for the distance. My MIL isn't much of a baby person, and her child-rearing philosophy is a bit out-dated, to say the least. She's of the "crying strengthens their lungs" school of thought. They went along w/ my food rules, but rolled their eyes. I got the feeling that it they were left alone with her, she'd be pumped full of sugar and caffine. Sigh.
Posted by: Nikki | February 05, 2007 at 10:43 AM
I should say, of the mild annoyances--these: my parents seem unable/unwilling to recall any instances when my sister or I misbehaved or had tantrums. They both insist that we never did. Sis and I believe they just have selective memory. So this causes occurances where my husband is getting the then 2 1/2 year old into her jammies in the other room and she's having a tantrum and my mother loudly whispers "Is this normal?!" her voice tinged with horror. Yes, Mom, it is. It's not pleasant, but it is fairly normal and I don't believe it means there is anything wrong with us, our parenting, or our child.
The big thing, for me, though--is my weird feeling of being displaced by my children. I love my parents very, very much and they are all about their granddaughters, which is wonderful. They live a plane trip away and in many ways jokingly make it clear they only come to see the grandchildren... That I don't change but the little ones do (oh, how many times has my mother said that! But I believe we all keep changing, every day, all through our lives...) They honestly don't seem to realize that joking about how they always are telling people they come to visit to see the grandchildren, not the daughter, is hurtful. It's a small thing, and I know I am always their daughter, and it is so worth it to me to have given them these beautiful granddaughters to love... But I have made a mental note in ink that someday when I am a grandparent I will not forget that I am still a parent, too.
Posted by: rudyinparis | February 05, 2007 at 12:09 PM
Rachel, very specific to my father's issues, which are too complex to go into here. In this case, he didn't voice his concern that I was putting my children at risk of DEATH, until I addressed it directly with him. After that, the fact that he said nothing at all except the random 'oh, I guess that works okay, how odd!' type comments when he's clearly been observing and thinking I'm doing something that will fail... given our relationship in other areas, and the discussions we've had, he also agrees that not offering his observations was cowardly.
If he didn't know me, or he did know me and knew that I was an emotional mine-field, then keeping mum would just be SANE. Not the case here.
RE: the 'your father is a coward for not wanting to parent your children? How is that any of his responsibility, let alone any of his business?' thought - um, I didn't ask him to parent my kids. I asked him to parent ME, and GRANDparent my kids. I didn't ask him to make any decisions or take any actions other than to speak to ME when he sees something that seriously concerns him. He's my dad, he loves me, he has a relationship with his grandkids, he loves them. Love doesn't sit by and wait for their loved ones to crash and burn while saying nothing, at least not when it is known and proven that doing so will not cause undue pain.
He is absolutely not responsible for parenting my kids. I haven't asked him to parent them, period. At the same time, communicating his concerns is the responsibility of any person who loves another person. Don't you think? Okay, there are exclusions, yes - safety, efficacy... But if your best friend was driving around with the kids unbuckled, wouldn't your responsibility be to present the case for buckling them up? I'd far rather have a friend who will speak uncomfortable truths than one who just pats me on the head and says that my unsafe or inappropriate behavior is just fine. Easy? No. Expect it all the time? No. Will shut up once the case is presented at least once? Likely, though the life-and-death situations haven't come up to test that, and chances are I'd have to re-evaluate the friendship. Love comes with responsibility, period, in my life.
Likewise, I sure hope that his grandkids are his business. Anyone I love is my business - to care, to observe, to speak up when appropriate. Not over every blessed thing, just things that are notable.
The 'not my business' thing... in family counseling, the counselor called that 'circling the wagons' - we're over here, you're over there, I won't come out of my safe place even if you are being attacked by Indians. The implication is that even though I could help, I am entitled to watch my loved ones destroy themselves and each other, safe in the knowledge that at least *I* wouldn't have done it that way... and hey, it isn't my responsibility or my business to keep the people I love from misery, pain, or injury. That's THEIR problem.
Um...
I do know that it takes a relationship, some trust, and some faith, plus a good dose of ego-suppression to function as a team of support for a loved-one's family. You can't do it without that degree of intimacy, it would be crazy to expect it. I don't expect people I don't trust, love, and have a strong relationship with to do that for me, nor to want it from me back.
BUT, I have that with my friends and my family, barring the one couple with whom we're actively developing that relationship (somewhat delayed). They're all safe, sane, mentally healthy individuals, as well, so there's very low risk pursuing that closeness of relationship.
I can't imagine trying to parent my kids without that safety net. There are maybe a dozen issues that have been really helped by having that network of support - everything from PPD to my oldest's whining to health issues and developmental delays. I get reassurance, guidance, validation, challenges, resources, commiseration, ideas, you name it, from those who make it their BUSINESS to love my kids. I'm not expecting a report back every time they see each other - I'm only hoping that if someone is worried or concerned, they don't just keep it to themselves and hope I'll somehow notice and act before it is too late. THAT is what I took my dad to task for.
By the way, is there a book that you got the 'not your responsibility or business to parent someone else's kids' and 'being asked to observe or comment on kids you know and love is tantamount to being asked to be the parent to those kids' concepts from? Because I've heard it before, and it comes out sounding exactly the same - like a repetition of something that was read, and that 'clicked', and is being tossed back out... Just curious.
Posted by: hedra | February 05, 2007 at 12:44 PM
As I was single when I adopted my girls, I never had a MIL to deal with.
My mother is long since gone, but she was around when my kids were little. I have to say that she had her failings in the mothering department, but as a grandmother? She was stellar. She loved them, held them, played with them, and had no problem abiding by my food rules. My mother's relationship with my kids was one of complete adoration on both sides. I hope I can one day be as good a grandmother as she was, and that I can respect my daughter's parenting style and skills. She was never critical of my methods.
Makes me miss my mother.
Posted by: yankee,transferred | February 06, 2007 at 09:51 AM
I told you earlier I could write a book about this... I just got an email from my mother notifying me that she has plans to take my kids to Disney World this summer for their first trip there. I don't want to deny my kids the opportunity to go to the Big DW, but *I* want to take them!!!! And I *will* take them... just not this summer (as baby#3 is due in May). Aargh, I feel a fight coming on.
Posted by: Amy | February 06, 2007 at 12:18 PM
Amy, good luck in the fight! I'm rootin' for ya...
Posted by: hedra | February 06, 2007 at 01:33 PM
My MIL and FIL live far away and we see them only twice a year or so. My parents, on the other hand, are a few blocks away and we see them all the time. My mother disagrees with my methods entirely - whether it be with food or with sleep or what toys I think is appropriate. She follows my food rules (grudgingly) but likes to inform me (a little smugly) about how my son did not nap while he was with her because he wasn't sleepy, or because he didn't want to. I am always left with an over-tired child after she watches him for a day. She would then call the next day to find out how he was when he got home, and if I mention that he was cranky or fussy, she would say something like, "Well, you should keep him relaxed and let him take it easy, today. Don't tire him out." And I am left grinding my teeth in frustration.
I've tried pointing out that as his mother, I should have some say in what's going on, but she just accuses me of being a "dictator" and cruel to my child for being strict.
My father is way too permissive (he would have fed my then-six month old boy shrimp if he could have!) and tends to ignore anything I say. He has very little experience with babies (he was primarily hands-off and too busy working when my brother and I were babies) He then criticizes me for not using various oils on his skin or hair (my son gets a rash with baby oil) and complains about dry skin on the face (a drooly baby is going to have some dry skin).
So yeah. I don't really have a good boundary with my parents because they think my insistance on a routine is "unnatural." I am not sure how my in-laws feel.
Posted by: Fahmi | February 06, 2007 at 04:48 PM
Wow, this is a big one for me. My relationship with my parents (particularly my mother) is the most unexpected and disappointing aspect of becoming a parent. We were very close before I had my daughter, and now, I am tense and angry whenever we are together (about once a week). Beside the fact that I am no longer of any interest to them as an individual, their passive aggressive need to 'comment' on just about every aspect of my child and my parenting drives me insane. I blew up on my mother when the babe was about 4 months old, telling her that her love of the child is welcome, but all aspects of parenting are for my husband and I to decide - without unsolicited comment. Her response was defensive and ended there. She has never shown me a moments respect as an adult. She comments almost compulsively, even to the point of sounding foolish.
My father doesn't make as many 'comments', but instead smothers us. He calls several times daily to find out what the child is doing at that moment, what she's saying, is her nose runny, did she eat well today, yet rarely actually listens to the answers. When we visit he demands and forces constant kisses and hugs from her. She's 15 months old and would much prefer to play, but he doesn't see her as an individual with the right to decide what she wants to do. He is also extremely permissive, to the point of allowing dangerous behaviour, and is notorious for walking away at the crucial moment b/c something else has caught his attention. He is retiring soon, and has repeatedly stated that he'd like to care for the girl a couple of days a week. He's never changed a diaper, offered a meal or bottle, or put her to sleep.
It takes all I have to ignore the anger and hurt I feel and allow them to participate in my child's life, but I'm hoping that in the end all she'll ever remember is the love and attention of doting grandparents.
Posted by: KAMI | February 08, 2007 at 08:55 AM
I am going to be a new grandparent, for the first time. My son and DIL are really great! They love family and closeness - it is what I didn't have growing up, so I think they are on the right track. Unfortunately, I don't know how to do grandparenting. I figured I would be around as much as possible (I live 6-7 airline hours away). But I resent somewhat feeling I am "hired help" - to clean, cook and make life easy for the new Mom. Don't get me wrong, I want to help when it is needed...so Mom could take a nap etc. I guess my idea of grandma is romanticized - it's the holding and rocking and cooing, diaper changing, washing, etc. It is hands on - not housework. So, I agree with the comment to talk about it - what does my son and daughter want in a grandmother, and what I want to give. It is clear to me that I do not want to just do housework when I visit. I am afraid to offend them, but that is how I feel.
Posted by: sweetie | February 12, 2007 at 11:20 PM
It's great to read all of these stories. This is something that I am completely dreading. We live in the same city as FIL and MIL, while my parents are away and unable to visit any more than once every few years, unfortunately, but that's just the way it is.
FIL's health status changed dramatically a few years ago, and the extra help that his family has needed has put a huge stress on my DH, as well as our relationship - I don't remember the last weekend we had alone together. Now expecting our first child, I'm very stressed about how to negotiate the boundaries between our family and theirs. Almost all of our free weekends are sucked up visiting and doing things for them, making it hard not to resent them (DH works about 80+ hours a week). They call our house every night, and each of his parents unload their problems on him whenever they get him alone – which of course stresses him and me out, and makes us just feel even more guilty.
I can't help but compare them to my own independent family - who has more than their own share of problems, chronic diseases and pain, disability… but we carry our own burdens and still support each other. FIL and MIL can't just be happy about the grandchild, but have to constantly talk about all the things that they won't be able to do... instead of just being happy that they will know this child, that we live in the same city. It sucks the joy out of our pregnancy and I'm frustrated by how it will carry on after the baby arrives. We “pushed” ahead our schedule – baby in the middle of med school – as opposed to after because we wanted his Dad to experience grandchildren, bought an accessible house with main floor bath we remodelled on our student loans, etc. I don’t think they realize all the sacrifices that we’re making.
I’m so frustrated that they can’t seem to respect boundaries; they used to stop by uninvited even when they knew I had exams the next day until I actually had to spell it out that this was not acceptable – they didn’t get it when DH tried to explain. I don’t think it’s going to get any better with a baby. I feel like a uterus with legs, all they want to hear about is my last prenatal appointment, and lots of free advice on what I should and shouldn’t be doing. I can only imagine what it’s going to be like when we get the baby home. Any advice from anyone out there on prophylactic strategies that I can employ?
Posted by: PhDMD_Mommy | February 16, 2007 at 03:37 PM
I wish my mil was like my mother, badly! My mother is very good with me when it comes to my 6 week old. She rarely says anything, because I'm new at this so unless I'm harming her she won't step in until I ask. In fact when I do ask she normally doesn't remember because it's been so long since we were kids and things are so different so we learn together. My mil on the other hand is the total opposite. And already driving me nuts (it's only been 6 weeks!). She is the kind of person who will give advice if you want it or not, but you can't say what you think because she will just cut you off. And she is pretty old school. She has two of her own daughters with kids and she is the main focus in their lives, but my husband and I don't need her 24/7 like they do and it drives her nuts. The one 3 year old grandchild even calls her MAMA! Yes, MAMA and she doesn't correct her. She must get some high when the grandchildren don't even want to go home with their own parents. She drags on the goodbyes. It's really sick watching this. Being married into the family though I really didn't want kids because of her. She told me that she was the only one that could calm any of the grandchildren down when they were babies. Not even there own mothers could! And she thinks it's NORMAL! From day one even the nurse in the hospital wanted to slap her. She always wants to see the baby more than my mom and this is her 1st grandchild and I think a couple times a month is enough (for both mil and my mother) and she crys because she never sees her. She is very hard to deal with. When we got home from the hospital I swear she already was asking when she could take my baby over night! Honestly though her daughters are the ones that set this all up. So, now my husband and I are having a very hard time with her because we actually don't need her. And it is putting a strain on our relationship because my poor husband has to deal with her (we really don't talk, never have). He is torn because it's his mom, but I'm his wife. When she does come over I think it really bothers her she can't comfort MY baby like I can, but it's MY baby and she doesn't see that. It will probably never change, but if ANYONE can help me out. Bless your heart!
Posted by: Carrie | April 03, 2007 at 01:09 AM