I got two virtually identical questions on the same day, which always fascinates me. My friend Theresa writes:
"My 4-1/2 y.o. son has always been a bit on the shy side, especially with adults. We attribute some of this to his background - we adopted him from Kazakhstan when he was almost 1-year-old. His birthmother released her parental rights the day he was born, so he went straight from the maternity hospital to the orphanage to, one year later, our home. Although he's bonded really well to us, we suspect that there is some subconscious fear of abandonment at work.
He is sociable with children he knows and relates well to his preschool teachers and to the parents of his friends. He does not, however, do well with adults he doesn't know extremely well. This is starting to interfere with his life in that, although he lives, breathes and sleeps sports, he is unable to interact with coaches in any of the 4-year-old athletic activities we've tried, and has "failed" his first readiness assessment for kindergarten (which consisted of a one-on-one interview with a woman from the admissions dept. of a local private school).
We have more private school playdates and readiness assessments in the near future and tee-ball starts soon. Does anyone have any ideas of how we can, gently, make him comfortable enough with these types of situations so that he can successfully interact?"
I know that I'm definitely not qualified to offer an opinion about whether his orphanage time or adoption has anything to do with his shyness. I will give the data point that my older son (a few months older than JR) has been in a period for about a year of not wanting to interact at all with unknown adults, and sometimes being downright rude in just ignoring them and acting as if they don't exist. (This from a kid who was nicknamed "The Mayor" when he was 2 because he made friends with eeeeveryone.)
And clearly JR and my son are't alone, because Lucy writes:
"Camille, my little girl, is 4 years old. She's bright and funny and perceptive. She's very sensitive to the goings-on of the world around her and always has been. Not to the point where I'd call her highly sensitive (I guess), but it has caused some challenges to both her and to me and my husband as parents. For example, when she's with a friend who disagrees with her or "corrects" her, she dissolves into tears and drama and clings to my side. It's a normal and hard lesson to learn - you're not always right; people are different - but with her reaction, you'd think the world was ending. I tell her people are different, wipe her tears, give her hugs, but I often feel so helpless in getting her beyond the drama… and yes, exasperated too.
She can also be so shy around children who are unfamiliar to her. Inevitably, though, after we attend a church event or birthday party where she's been the wallflower, she'll excitedly tell us all about the great things that happened and the people there - just like she was in the middle of things instead of shyly refusing to participate. I encourage her to participate in all of these events, but try not to do that to a point where she's uncomfortable.
And Camille has been in a clingy stage for a while. With me especially. Going back to school after a long break is hard for her, with tears in the morning ("I'm SIIIIICK, Mommy!"), frustration and all that. This is especially challenging, so if there are specific suggestions for helping school mornings go smoothly, please pass them along. Again, I try to get through this in a loving, supportive way, but it makes mornings really stressful for the whole family.
I want Camille to be happy and unafraid of the world and new people. I want her to be a little more independent. I want to encourage these things in a way that will help her grow and not feel like I see her as inadequate in any way. Please advise."
I hate to say it, but it think our kids are not atypical. (Well, OK, I don't really hate to say it, because it's nice to know your kid is not some strange anomaly.) I'm not sure what to do about all this stuff, but here are some behaviors I've observed in my son and his friends:
- shy and/or downright rude around adults
- anxious about friendships (who wants to play with whom on any given day)
- wishy-washy about social situations (being really excited about going to a birthday party, then freaking out and refusing to go on the day of the party)
If I'd been smart I'd have hunted down the Ames & Ilg book on 4-year-olds, and it undoubtedly would explain all of this. But after weathering the moods of the 3-year-old I got cocky and decided to do four without a book. So this is all just my speculation, and if anyone has the Ames & Ilg book, just jump right in with what the actual experts say.
I think this is the age at which kids start to realize that they are separate from other people. They know they're different from adults, so they start to get shy around adults. They know they're not other kids, so they're sensitive to other kids liking them or not and who likes whom. They start to say things like "boys like x, but girls like y," because they're starting to distinguish who they are in relation to other people.
The attitude I've tried to take (and it seems to be serving me well because I'm not anxious about this phase at all) is that it is just a natural phase of development. it's part of the separation process, and part of the process of kids learning about themselves.
In particular, I really wouldn't worry about shy behavior. Kids who are shy have really solid boundaries, which can be a healthy protective mechanism in a ton of situations. If your child seems particularly anxious, that can be something you want to work on, by taking baby steps to gradually expose the kid to more and more things, making sure you never push the child too hard past his or her comfort level. But just shyness is something to be observed but not worried about, like left-handedness or brown eyes. It's the way the kid is, and as long as the child is able to be friends with one or two other kids (at this age--remember that kids younger than this like other kids but aren't really engaged in active friendships per se) and do normal daily tasks, it's just a way of being.
If the adults who regularly interact with kids this young are shocked by your child's shy behavior, I'd be surprised. So many kids this age are either shy or just refuse to talk to grown-ups. Your kid is certainly not the only one. If you feel you need to explain, say your child is shy and does better warming up gradually to a situation. A professional should definitely understand and act accordingly.
Moxie don't need no stinkin books! ;)
My experience is much the same. Four year olds (in my limited experience) are starting to develop an understanding of social rules, have a great deal of sensitivity, have identity and worth concerns, and often feel they're on shaky ground with strange adults. They know there are rules, aren't always sure what to expect, and function like someone who has moved here from a foriegn country. Which, honestly, their brains just have, since they're now moving into the logic-and-order development phase of their brains, having concluded the first main burst of close-interpersonal-relationships development.
I also totally agree that shy kids are often just being very clear about their own needs, and that's not a bad thing.
If it is interfering with what they want to do, or if it seems excessive, the book that was recommended to me by the Psycholgist my daughter is seeing is "Helping your anxious child".
Meriel has clinical-level anxiety. She's not 'shy' (that is, when she's in situations where she knows what to expect, she's bold, assertive, interactive, social, etc.). Familiar people and familiar locations mean she's out there, having fun.
BUT, if she's put in a situation where she isn't sure what to expect, she locks up, shuts down, disengages, hides, etc. She can panic so severely that she is unable to speak, even to cry... just from having an adult speak to her, or look at her directly. She doesn't know them, she doesn't know what to expect from them, she freaks.
The Psych said that this isn't necessarily indicative of a 'problem' (medically), but is just who she is. Once she knows what to expect, and how to proceed, she's back to her sunny outgoing self. It is only that she's not sure, and being not sure is scary for her. Okay, I can deal with that!
And I can help, too. The things we're doing with her that really help:
1) Noticing when she shuts down, disengages socially, emotionally, or physically from a situation. This is, per the Psych, comparable to another child screaming and/or crying in fear. Quiet doesn't mean not scared, it means a tendency toward flight/avoidance rather than fight when scared. That's all.
2) When she's shutting down, or in situations where we know she tends to, coach her as we would a child who was crying/freaking out more visibly. Explain what is going to happen, in stages. Talk through the steps. Give notice of transitions. Provide an idea of alternatives and multiple paths or different outcomes that could come from this situation (including some silly ones, improbable ones, and realistic-but-boring ones).
3) When the child can't get involved, get invoved as a player to model the skills. With adults, that is being very clear and reliable, behaving as you expect them to behave, following the social rules exactly, illustrating the steps. This is often a challenge for us adults! If it is playing with kids, get down on the floor and join in the game (allowing Meriel to sit with me or watch me, not requiring her to join in). If that's talking to an adult, it is engaging in conversation at her pace and level, so that she can comprend what's going on and how to employ it herself.
4) Reduce expectations. Really, as Moxie says, this stuff is age-appropriate. Anyone who doesn't know that isn't paying attention. I'd avoid a school that didn't understand that many kids this age can't complete an intake interview under pressure with a stranger! Hello? Maybe they're looking to stock the entire school with extroverts, and the few introverts who get in... ouch for them. Not going to be a good fit! For Meriel, this means that for scary situations, it may take a year for her to build enough skills and comprehension to be able to handle them without disengaging. Okay, so it does. It may mean that 95% of the time that we're in a new situation is spent with me coaching, reassuring, and modeling, and 5% with her participating at even a limited level. And that's fine, too.
What isn't helpful, that we've been doing, is a) totally avoiding situations that are stressful - this just has succeeded in teaching her that we think those are 'too scary for her', too. Um, oops! and b) allowing quiet, calm dismay and distress go under our radar. I *know* how to handle a child who is freaking out. So I can just apply that to the child who is calmly sitting there staring into her lap, too.
So, coach, model, reassure, provide explanations, lay out the steps, etc., so they can put the parts together themselves. That's at least the main part of it for Meriel. For our oldest son, who also had anxiety (not so much with people as events), playing 'what if?' was a huge help. He'd gotten into the habit of using his immense imagination for evil more than good... basically, he worst-cased everything. Catastrophising ('don't run into the street, you'll get hit by a car and DIE!') was our downfall with him. He learned from mommy that life was a series of dodging disasters... um, oops. Playing 'what if?' helped take that down... Play it like this: For every situation that scares/upsets them, ask them what WOULD happen if (insert situation here)?
Mom: What would happen if you talked to the coach?
Kid: I'd say something stupid and feel awful.
M: Okay, that's one. I'll give you another If! You say something wrong, but he wasn't even paying attention, so he didn't notice. Now your turn!
K: He is cranky, and yells at me.
M: Okay, good. My turn! He burps *really loud* right when you open your mouth to talk, and you both bust up laughing. Your turn!
K: He tells me I'm not allowed to play today.
M: Right! My turn! He tells you that you have to practice more before you can play. Your turn!
K: He tells me my shirt is ugly.
M: Okay. My turn! He starts to say something mean, and your super-powers glue his mouth shut, and the mean starts to expand and expand until his face inflates like a balloon and turns electric pink, and he starts to float away... and when he's three feet off the ground, you let him open his mouth and all the mean goes flying out in the form of fifty bazillion electric pink bats, and he lands on the ground with a big splat sound, and vows never ever to say or even think any thing mean again! Your turn!
K: My turn! He's really a robot sent from outer space, and when I go up to talk to him, he decides I'm the leader of the world, and I get to make everyone do what I tell them!
M: Good! You talk to him, and he says, 'hey, there you are, I was going to put you in next! You're our best kicker! Go for it!' ... etc.
The main point of 'What If?' is that most kids with good imaginations that get scared by new situations are imagining what could go wrong, but they get so involved in their creation of what could go wrong that they don't check with reality, or bother to imagine more than one scenario. Teaching imaginative kids to expand the pattern can really help.
Anyway, that's another book... as usual. Sigh. But hopefully some of it helps. (I sometimes wonder if my kids have all these odd issues just so I can learn about them and tell someone else! LOL!)
Posted by: hedra | January 26, 2007 at 10:42 AM
(and when I say 'most kids' I mean 'most kids I know' - not a statistic, there! LOL!)
Posted by: hedra | January 26, 2007 at 10:48 AM
I have to chime in here with a pet peeve. It bugs me when parents say to their kids "Oh, are you being shy?" or to another adult "He's shy." It seems to me by labelling the behaviour for the child, they are really reinforcing it. The next time the child goes into a social situation they will have a tape playing in their head saying "I'm shy...I'm shy...I'm shy." Personally, I go with more neutral or positive language, like "When you feel you're ready, you will join in" or "He likes to take his time to get to know a new person"
Most parents would never label their kid in any other 'negative' way...like "Wow, you are mean today!" or "Don't worry, he's just stupid!" OK, 'shy' is not as negative a word as those two, but you see my point... better to stay away from negative labels altogether.
Posted by: lb | January 26, 2007 at 12:23 PM
LOL! You hit one of my pet peeves with Meriel, too - people calling her 'shy'. I can see 'shy' being a diagnostic term for 'social anxiety', maybe. But that implies a constant state of being (as you note - 'shy' or 'mean' or 'stupid' all being constant states of being).
Meriel is NOT shy, by any means. She's anxious in certain conditions. Gabe (even when not feeling anxious) observes before joining in. Also not shy.
Shy is also sometimes used as an excuse for the parent feeling uncomfortable about the child's behavior. I remember that when a friend of mine was introduced as 'shy' at a party. I knew the girl. Yeah, she was an introvert, and possibly (in retrospect) sensory sensitive. But the label was her mom's stress/anxiety/embarassment at not having an outgoing social child. It got her some 'aw, poor you, poor her' kind of responses from the other grownups. The mom was floundering for how to help her daughter, and all we had in that era was the label, which didn't help anyone much.
(and yet, I still find that 'shy' falls out of my mouth in reference to other kids! ARGH! D'oh!)
Posted by: hedra | January 26, 2007 at 12:37 PM
I have no idea where this was, but long ago I read something about helping with shyness in kids and it recommended talking about "feeling shy" rather than "being shy." So it helps the kid have a name for what's going on without calling it a permanent trait -- it's just how they're feeling at that moment. I don't know, though, maybe "shy" is too hot a word to be used like that at all.
Posted by: caro | January 26, 2007 at 01:52 PM
Nice to see a post from another adoptive family! My daughter, as well, was born in Kazakhstan (wonderful country, wonderful kids) and spent first few years of her life in a babyhouse. It has been an interesting challenge for me to weave in the standard child rearing advice along with advice aimed towards post-institutionalized children. Alot of the time, when my daughter does something seemingly outrageous or anti-social I find myself asking 'is this related to her past experience?'
When grappling with questions like this it has helped me to accept that its not actually necessary for me to know exactly what it is that is causing the behavior. It is more important for me to approach it from the standpoint of how to deal with it now.
When my daughter was younger she was similar to Moxie's 'Mayor' in that she said hello to absolutely everyone. This lack of indiscrimination worried me and I speculated that it came from the babyhouse, a controlled environment with no boundaries. Teaching my daughter some skills and concepts around strangers and aquaintances helped alot, even though I still don't know if the behavior was related to her experience in an institution.
Your son's reticence with people he doesn't know well could indicate that it takes him a while to assimilate new people and new relationships. You might consider limiting the amount of new people that cross his path, slow down the pace for a bit, and see how he reacts. Just a thought.
In regard to 'failed' kindergarten readiness, I would heartily recommend giving your son an extra year of pre-school. Its like giving him an extra year of childhood. My daughter also did an extra year before starting kindergarten. Coming from a family of overacheivers it was hard for me to 'put on the brakes' but it was the best thing for her.
I love the Ames/Ilg books!
Posted by: Molly | January 26, 2007 at 02:11 PM
I think all the above advice is GREAT. Developmentally, a pre-school classroom IS really all about learning social skills, interacting, and building a community. This is a four year old's work. Thinking about another year in preschool, one that really focuses on social/emotional development rather than just numbers/letters/etc. (do these still exist after all the "no child left behind" poobah?) might be good. I LOVE Hedra's modeling, explaining, guiding ideas about situations/transitions/etc. advice. The statement of not "letting calm disengagement go under the radar" is so true! Shy kids are not big trouble makers; they want to please and are often seen as obedient.
I have to salute the moms who wrote in for being so in tune and sensitive to their children! Hooray for you!
Posted by: holly | January 26, 2007 at 05:15 PM
I think all the above advice is GREAT. Developmentally, a pre-school classroom IS really all about learning social skills, interacting, and building a community. This is a four year old's work. Thinking about another year in preschool, one that really focuses on social/emotional development rather than just numbers/letters/etc. (do these still exist after all the "no child left behind" poobah?) might be good. I LOVE Hedra's modeling, explaining, guiding ideas about situations/transitions/etc. advice. The statement of not "letting calm disengagement go under the radar" is so true! Shy kids are not big trouble makers; they want to please and are often seen as obedient.
I have to salute the moms who wrote in for being so in tune and sensitive to their children! Hooray for you!
Posted by: holly | January 26, 2007 at 05:20 PM
FYI, I was really shy as a child, as both questioners describe. My parents handled it respectfully and as I got older and more socially experienced it lessened. I'm not shy at all now. (Can't say I LOVE meeting new people, but I'm not scared). So don't worry.
Posted by: Lydia | January 26, 2007 at 07:06 PM
Hello, Shyness is situational. You son may have a fear of adults.
Perhaps you can make interacting in these situations a game that you and your son practice.
Have you asked your son why he does not like to talk to adults he does not know? Perhaps the answer will help you help him.
Posted by: Marcia Siegel | January 26, 2007 at 07:43 PM
I would look for another school that suits the children, not the other way around. It seems to me that too much emphasis is being put on a bad outcome in one situation. I was advised by my son's pediatrician to send my son to a "nursery" school (3,4, and 5) where he would flourish, a school that in those bygone days was labeled progressive, or more attuned to the children rather than to the curriculum.
Posted by: Num Num | January 28, 2007 at 10:59 AM
You are all awesome! It is, of course, reassuring to learn that this is really typical 4-y.o. behavior. We are trying to be very careful about not labelling the behavior (or JR) as "shy" (although we definitely have not been as good at that as we'd like, because sometimes he says "I'm shy.")
I love the idea of coaching, reassuring and modeling and we have thought a great deal about doing another year of preschool (we've even talked to his current preschool teachers about it). So far, no one seems to think he needs that (and there are other reasons for him to move on to K, such as his overall intelligence and his physical size and motor skills).
We did another playdate / readiness assessment at another private school and it was quite a revelation - there was no individual interview with a strange adult, just an observed play period with a group of kids. We did some preparation for the day with puppets in advance. Nevertheless, when it was time for the parents to leave the group of kids, JR got clingy and anxious. One of the teachers approached and told him that he could sit with her. When that remark led him to scoot all the way to the far side of the circle her response was "That's okay. You don't know me. You can sit wherever you feel comfortable."
Needless to say, we think this school is a much better fit for our little guy. :)
I also appreciated hearing from the other Kaz parent - she's right - we don't always have to know the cause of the behavior - just how to deal with it now.
Thanks Moxie. :)
Posted by: theresa | January 28, 2007 at 11:39 PM
Wow, glad to hear about that second "interview." In a theoretical way, I understand why pre-schools have to "interview," but it still makes me a tad irritated. Kids are kids and not predictable. I am morally certain that you are parenting your adorable boy wonderfully well. Yay for that second teacher who seemed not to make "judgments" at all.
Posted by: Num Num | January 29, 2007 at 10:52 AM
IME from NYC schools, they bring the kids in for those playdate interviews to weed out any kids with obvious problems, but really to weed out parents who interact strangely with the kids and/or who are obnoxious or strange. I don't think the kids are being scrutinized as heavily as the adults are.
Posted by: Moxie | January 29, 2007 at 05:20 PM
Hi everyone - I just wanted to chime in with my personal experience as a very shy child. My mom did something I think was brilliant. I had a huge, favorite teddy bear - "Big Brown Bear." Mama would have me practice conversations with him. As in, introducing myself, asking what his favorite cartoon was, etc., and imagining his responses. Of course Big Brown Bear would never say anything mean, so it was a great way for me to think of meeting new people as a positive thing.
Posted by: Melissa A Gleinser | February 05, 2007 at 10:40 AM
Our daughter is almost 4 and still acts shy around adults and until recently with new kids. What we did was send her to summer day camp for one week. The camp was set up so that all kids are treated all as winners and in one week she went from holding on to mommy and daddy to running off on her own to join the other kids. On the last day she was very excited to tell me that she got picked by one of the other kids in a game. Now we are working on the adults, but I think it will come in time and we were most worried about her fitting in at school with new kids. She is now doing pre-4yr old kindergarden summer school and is happy and participating well. So, my advice is, find a good camp (perferably with trained teachers) and watch your kid transform.
Posted by: Rob | July 20, 2007 at 10:20 PM
Advice? How bad is it to label the behaviour as "shy"? My husband has already used that term to describe my 4 year old twin son's behaviour. He withdraws in large group activities like birthday parties and soccer. His twin brother is the opposite and jumps in with both feet and has fun. Wondering what to do to not cause more anxiety for him.
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