Q&A: discipline for a 16-month-old

Kirsten writes:

"I have a 16 month old daughter and am 5 months pregnant with another. Our concern is that while our 16 month old is a bright, happy, loving child, she is strong willed and not getting the idea of what Mama and Daddy mean by the word no. She definitely knows when she is doing something wrong when we say 'no' firmly and seriously because she runs and hides from us. She is not impressed by raised voices either, nothing startles her although her hearing is keen. Our pediatrician recommended time outs, which for a select few offenses we implement consistantly. Unfortunately, she thinks time out is fun.

Our main concern is her safety, especially since we are about to have our hands full. When we see her doing something unsafe, we need to find a way to get her to stop before she is injured. Any ideas on how to get her attention?"

Everything I know about getting a 16-month-old to pay attention when you need to stop unsafe behavior is courtesy of Rebecca Kelly, founder of Kids Co-Motion, a movement class for kids in NYC.

One of the things Rebecca tells parents at the beginning of each semester of classes is that the young toddler age is when kids start to have the very beginnings of the ability to control their movements, so this is the perfect time to start helping them learn to control themselves. It's counterproductive, though, to try to get them to sit down or stand still, because a child's natural state is in motion.

The other thing is that we want them to begin to be able to assess situations themselves and move depending on cues that they see and hear, instead of just waiting for us to tell them. (This will come in handy later on, because they'll see a red light and will put on the brake instead of waiting for us to yell "Stop!" from the back seat.) It takes a while, but working with them to sense and understand cues will pay off for them and for us.

In class, Rebecca does lots of dances with the kids in which they change types of motion when the music changes. They learn pretty quickly that when the music changes everyone does something else, and they start to imitate and pick up the cues and changes. She also has them sing or chant along (as they can, obviously--the 16-month-olds aren't so great at it, but the 2-year-olds do really well) to internalize word cues about movement.

We can do this same kind of stuff at home by playing movement games with our kids and attaching words to the games. The most obvious game is "green light/red light," in which you practice saying "green light" and having your child run around like crazy. Then you say "red light!" and the child practices stopping as if s/he's at a red light. Play it enough times for fun, and you'll discover that saying "red light!" will make your kid stop and look back at you, waiting for the green light. (The first time it happens, it's the strangest thing.)

So playing around with learning cues is extremely helpful for these little imitative monkeys. The other thing I've found extremely helpful is to think about what my rules are exactly, and only say "no" or try to stop behavior if I actually care about it. It sounds obvious, right? But think about how many times you try to put a stop to something just because you think you should. Everyone has different preferences, of course, but if there are things that you honestly don't care about, just let your kids do them. For me, that means that I don't care if my kids jump off the couch 20 times in a row. Since they don't hear "no!" and "stop!" constantly, when I need them to stop (at the curb on the street, for example) those words have more of an impact.

I've found commenter Hedra's "safe, respectful, and kind" criteria to be an excellent touchstone for creating a family process for assessing what behavior is allowable and what isn't. Sometimes I'll think "Do I really want them doing this?" and I can run it through the safe/respectful/kind test in my mind. That'll either clarify why I don't want them doing it, or make me realize there's no reason to stop it. Verbalizing this process will help your kids learn to assess things themselves.

This is really long-winded. Does anyone else have comment or suggestions on starting discipline early with young toddlers? Bear in mind that kids this age are notorious for not responding to sharp "no"s, and it's pretty much universally acknowledge that time-outs are way too conceptually advanced for them to work as punishment for this age (although they're stellar as distraction or just removing the kid from the temptation, or giving us time to cool down).

Comments

[cagey]

I loved, LOVED your statement "The other thing I've found extremely helpful is to think about what my rules are exactly, and only say "no" or try to stop behavior if I actually care about it. "

I think that is SO important. I've been watching my sister battling it out with my nephews for YEARS over things that really don't matter because she is convinced if she "gives in once, it's over". I like your take on it. In that vein, I let my 14 month old son play with the cat food, but draw the line at playing with the curry plant. My nerves have thanked me for it and guess what? He primarily leaves the cat food alone now because it has lost its novelty (unfortunately, the damned plant has NOT).

Now, if I can't just get my kid to actually STAY AWAY from the open stove while I am getting stuff, I'll have it all figured out. Sigh.

Must go practice "red light/green light" RIGHT NOW.

[Lisa]

I love Hedra's "Safe, Kind, Respectful" rules. I have started using them with my 2 yo and have noticed a difference already. It's most effective if I catch him before he acts. I can usually see the wheels turing and ask him if it's safe, etc. He doesn't respond as well to the safe, but he's getting pretty good about the kind (don't ask about the respectful...he's 2). But they have very effective for helping me decide what to stay consistent with, and what to let slide.

As far as discipline when he doesn't listen, I've found that I have to vary the punishment so he doesn't get too used to the consequences. I also vary it according the transgression. For example, throwing a car to the floor because he's frustrated results in a brief time-out; but if he throws the car at someone, or just because he can, he gets a timeout and the car is taken away for the day. If he won't share nicely with his cousins, the offending toy is taken away from everyone until they can learn to mediate themselves (the girls are 3 and 6).

Thanks to Hedra for sharing her "Safe, Kind, Respectful" rule. It's made a great difference in our house.

[Tina B. (fromerly obxmom)]

I am so excited to see responses to this question. I started searching out discipline resources last month. My son is almost 14 months and we are starting to set more defined boundaries for him. We've been using "don't touch" instead of "no" for a while, along with distractions. It has just started to working to deter to him and I love to see him respond to it. I think it helps that we try to use it sparlingly. We also use "danger" if it is unsafe and in immediate harm.

I too, love the comment about what the rules are and do you actually care. Pairing that with providing a safe environment, I let him explore at his pace. Like cagey, it has saved my nerves.

I will have to do a search because I want to hear more about hedra's approach.

[liz]

Red light/green light works well as does stating the rules clearly. "Stay away from the stove when the light above it is on. The stove is HOT."

"Parking lot rules: hold hands and no running!"

That way, instead of saying "No!", I can call out "Kitchen rules!" or "Parking Lot!" (given enough time, otherwise just "RED LIGHT!")

[Melissa]

We have been trying to follow logical/natural consequences as a form of discipline. I've found actions speak louder than words, or at least you should back up your words with actions. Ever since my daughter could walk I would take her for walks around the neighborhood and I would tell her not to go in the street, but of course she would try to do it anyway. Each time, I would give her one warning and then the next time she did it, I would scoop her up and go home. After a few walks like this, she didn't try to go in the street anymore.

For other things like hitting that are unacceptable, I don't really punish her, I just try to stop her from doing them. I tell her she can't hit me, but I let her know what she can hit (a pillow, whatever), or I try to encourage her to tell me that she's mad or frustrated instead of hitting.

Like Moxie, I try not to say no unless it really matters. If it's just something that irritates me but isn't essentially harmful, I just let it go.

[Lisa]

http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006/09/qa_teaching_sel.html#comment-22173862

This is for the person looking for the link to Hedra's "Safe, Kind, Respectful" comment.

[Maureen]

Okay, stupid question for the group... First off, though, this is super timely for me. We just saw the pediatrician (who had recommended time outs) but when we told him they weren't working, he said it was because we were over using them (I have twin 21 month olds and they were in the time out at least 10-15 times, mostly for hitting, biting, throwing food, etc.) Anyway, he said to only use the time out for one offense until that one discipline issue went away and then pick the next most important discipline offense and use time out for that until it went away, etc. Well now I am at a total loss of what to do for the things where I "can't" use the time out any more. The redlight/greenlight game sounds great but how do you go about teaching that to small toddlers? That is my long winded question...

[Shandra]

My 16 month old is at the same stage. These are what have helped for us, dunno if it will for you. :)

Giving our son something to do rather than something not to do has worked wonders.

So he's learned "back away," and "close 'er up" and those kinds of commands. We're working on one we call "home base!" where when you call "home base" he will come grab my or his dad's legs, but he doesn't have the hang of it yet. (That one's for at the park, etc.)

This Very Wise(tm) dad also gave me the "one finger touch" rule and we've used that a lot - rather than not touching things like Christmas trees, etc, there is the gentle one finger touch.

We've added on - the gentle patting touch for cats and other people. Even "let go" works better than no.

For something like wanting a cookie or whatever we say "later" or "tomorrow" or "when you're 20" rather than no and offer an alternative. I'm sure he'll get smart enough to get around those but right now he just doesn't get his mischievous testing mode up as quickly for those kinds of phrases.

Then for not touching at all we have "dirty" "danger" and "no touch" as a last resort.

For all of those we have backed it up physically immediately - and expressively, with large gestures - and now he'll stop himself, for about 5 secs. He understands, but he just doesn't have the impulse control yet. I figure if it gets me to the scene in time that's a bonus.

I love the movement game ideas too and we've started playing "stop and go" and "red light green light" and they're just - fun, and hopefully will work. :-)

[rockabyemama]

What a great post and great comments! I love the safe, kind, respectful approach. I definitely need to keep those criteria in mind, and try to start communicating that to my daughter. I need to start the red light/green light game, too!

I agree with the strategy of only saying no to things that you really care about. I try to do this, and it drives my husband crazy sometimes. He keeps saying that she shouldn't be able to do whatever she wants all the time. In my opinion, this (she's 22 months) is the time of discovery and learning, so I want her to be able to explore her creativity and interest in her environment. I try to limit the no's, and like other commenters, say Danger, Hot, and other key words that have helped her learn about safety. I also think that the whole tellling them what to do, rather than what NOT to do is also such an important parenting tool (like the commenter who says stay away from the stove, hold hands, etc.). I try to do that (walk on the sidewalk, put the food on your tray, ask nicely), but it's hard to remember sometimes!

At this age, I only use timeouts for physical agression like biting, pinching, and hitting. The rest of the time, I use the natural consequences rule: if she throws food on the floor, she picks it up, if she draws on the table, she helps clean it, if she continues to put rocks in her mouth after a warning, we go inside, etc.

The other parenting mantra that I think is the most key for discipline is praising when your child does behave well (whether it be calming down, saying please and thank you, playing nicely, patting gently, etc.).

Moxie, you're great!

[liphovela]

I have also started implementing the "safe, respectful and kind" rules following Hedra's comments. I think I started at around 16 months and at age 18 months I must say I love it. It is useful because (1) it helps the parent clarify why they are saying no-- if you want to say no becuase it is a little tiresome or a bitty messy the "rules" don't let you and then you get to say-- go ahead, pour your last bit of water in your dish, instead of saying no. On the other hand, I've decided that big messes are disrespectful; Mommy works all day and it is not respectful to leave her with a mind-boggling mess to clean up.

The baby gets "safe" and "kind" in a big way-- a verbal reminder to be kind ends cat-tail pulling and a lunge toward a parent to bite the arm. A verbal reminder to be safe can get small objects removed from the mouth. Of course, the little bugger also will place a coin in his mouth and then look at me and gurgle "safe"-- knowing that this is exactly what he is not being.

I completely recommend this structure as well as distraction distraction distraction. Don't want him/her fixated on the toothpaste? Give them your mascara and the problem is solved for at least 30 seconds.

[Charisse]

I love the redlight/greenlight thing, or "freeze" as we call it--I wish I'd learned it earlier, but it's super useful with a 2 1/2 year old who is officially done with strollers!

When said 2 1/2 was a bright, strong-willed 16-month-old, what worked best for us was to give her positive alternatives and PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE for doing it right (i.e. for NOT doing it wrong, but you don't put it that way).

So, throwing your food on the floor gets a calm "no" and a reminder that if you don't want your food you put it on your tray. Then, you catch her the next time she's thinking about throwing it and "help" her remember to put it on the tray, then you clap and say "great job putting the food on the tray when you didn't want it". When you're walking along the street chatting with a friend and she stays right with you, you interrupt your conversation and say "wow, great job staying next to mommy--what a big girl!". If you're in a store and she's not yanking everything off the shelves, you say "wow, really good job looking with your eyes and not taking things". It takes a lot of attention, but for our girl it worked much better than only noticing her mistakes.

I also wouldn't expect a child that age to obey without occasional physical intervention, i.e. "put that down now--if I get to 3 mommy takes it...1...2...3" and then you take it. Or, if she's somewhere she's not supposed to be, you go get her and hold onto her gently until she's ready to listen and agree to respect the limit.

You can also remove yourself if you're at home--one day at about 17 or 18 months Mouse walked up and smacked me across the face. Mr. C and I had some kind of mind-meld and we both got up and went to a different room. She found her dad first, and he explained that she had hurt me and I didn't want to talk to her until she said sorry. She came and did it, and variations of this have worked really well. We integrate it with the other strategy too--when she began to stop herself from hitting (you could see it) we'd praise her to the skies for "great job showing you're mad without hitting".

I wholeheartedly agree with not setting up superfluous rules--and in fact, arrange things so you can have as few "nos" as possible.

[Purple_Kangaroo]

We played a game similar to red light green light, but actually using the words stop and go. I wanted them to get used to stopping when they heard the word stop.

We used the same kind of concept in practicing stopping other behavior, such as tickling, when asked, and when teaching them to "come here."

What we did is describe in more detail here: http://purplekangaroopuzzle.blogspot.com/2005/05/parenting-tip-of-day-stop-and-come.html

[kirsten]

Thank you guys for all of the suggestions! I am so grateful that you responded to my question Moxie!

[hedra]

Well, go out for lunch with my step-dad, and come back and most of my ideas are already posted! Good job, saved me from some extra paragraphs. Okay, so nothing will ever save me enough from that! LOL!

At this age, I'll ditto Moxie (with the caveat that I *WISH* I'd learned about the red light/green light thing, that's really cool!), and ditto all the other commenters, and mention the following specifically:

1) Tell what to do, rather than what not to do, or use the two together to make something clear. ("We look at that with our eyes, not our fingers." "We stomp our feet when we're angry, we don't hit.") If all we give are the No options, that leaves a dizzying array of possible choices left, none of which are any more guaranteed to get approval than before. Worst case, they'll do the no-no again because at least they know what response they'll get!

2) Safe, Respectful, Kind. By the way, I use them in that order on purpose - Safe is always first, and sometimes there is no time to be respectful or kind when a safety crisis exists. Respectful and kind come in the aftermath ("I'm sorry I scared you when I screamed and grabbed you out of the street. Were you scared? Do you need a hug?"). Respectful is second - again, sometimes respectful has to take precedence over kind in the moment. If they're equal or reversed, giving a hug to someone who doesn't want one may seem okay, and doing something for someone that they can do for themselves (without asking) doesn't appear to be problematic. Both are kind, neither are respectful. Respectful second, then. Kind, while third, is also an 'always'. It is the last filter, NOT the least important one. As my mom says, 'there's never an excuse to be unkind.' But we put it on last, so that we've already sorted for dignity and autonomy (etc.) before we get to kind. (YMMV - you could probably argue any order, but that's my reasoning for the order.) We yell 'SAFE!' as our 'stop' most of the time. Though we blow it sometimes, too and just yell their name or No or Stop.

3) Solve their problem first. If they're feeling something that needs an outlet, give them a safe, respectful, kind outlet. If they're curious, help them resolve the curiosity properly. If they're energetic, help them exercise that. If they're needing a laugh from you, find a way to give it. If they just need attention and energy, fill them up. If I figure out what their problem is, I can answer it in a way that works for both of us. If I just try to solve MY problem (don't touch, don't push, etc.), they will find another way to meet that need, and likely it won't be any more useful for ME than the last one was. This, for me is the underpinning of the Distraction solution - you have to find a distraction that meets the needs, or it won't last very long. They'll let you know (by not being distracted!) if you didn't grasp the right problem. ;)

4) Remember that the things that seem obvious to us are not at all clear to them. Hot, danger, fragile... not clear. To them, they are 'bright' and 'interesting' and 'sparkly'. It is hard to remember back this far for most people (or impossible), and most of us estimate our memory age poorly (thinking we're younger than we were when we did that). As a result, we tend to expect more of our kids than is age appropriate, especially in comprehension, logic, and self-control. I can remember when gravity didn't make sense, when I discovered that I didn't have the power to make the sun change position, when I realized that the world wasn't shrinking steadily but instead I was growing bigger, when I wasn't sure that I would come down again when I was tossed into the air. ALL assumptions about what is real and logical can be wrong. They don't know it, assume they aren't seeing it the way you do, and explain, show, demonstrate, coach, and repeat repeat repeat. They'll figure it out eventually. And also remember that even with all that coaching and repeating, they won't have reasonable self-control until they are in their teens, and at that point their judgement will be faulty. It isn't their fault, it is just their age. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

5) Ditto also to the very calm/mild/BORING negative response, and laser-beam/big/EXCITED positives at the next possible opportunity. Kids hate boring. They're into excitement. If you are the most exciting when you're really losing your cool, they'll learn very quickly to repeat things that cause you to do that. If you're boring when they do things you don't like, and you really focus, really look, make eye contact, touch, clap, squeal, laugh, and swing them around when they do something you like, well... it works. I can remember the absolute compulsion to make my mother laugh. It was a gut-level driving force, with an urgency that was absolute - the closest other feeling I can describe to it is the urge to push in labor. It takes over and RUNS you. I use that with my kids as much as I can - bore the negative to death, and light up the positive. If I'm even close to consistant on it, it takes three days to extinct a negative behavior.

6) Give them the words. A lot of behaviors at this age IME were about feelings and experiences for which they had no words. They categorize a LOT at this age, and they'll do things over and over to see what category they fall into. The Safe/Respectful/Kind thing provides some of the categories (better than just "no" does). But there are others. The ones we use are: Owie, Hot, Chilly, Mine, Yours, Daddy's, Sister/Brother's, Food, Not-Food, Outside (toys and voices and clothes), Inside (toys, voices, clothes, feet), Yucky (not for poison, just disgusting), Scary. Those are the ones I can think of, at the moment. So I'm teaching my child to categorize behavior, experiences, objects, feelings, etc. Knowing where to 'put the idea' helps give a sense of power and surety. As they proceed, they categorize further, with more detail, and that gives them the basis of making judgements (often wrong to start with, but it is all a process). So, for example, "Not safe. Owie, Hot. The coffee cup is hot. Not safe." When it is cool enough to touch safely but still demonstrate the hot, we coach through touching it. "See, hot. Owie. Not safe." Category: Not Safe, because subcategory hot. Type of unsafe, owie (hurts). Check! Next!

What else do we do at this age...

6) Lots of commiseration for how hard it is to be not in control of your life choices. Early provision of power, autonomy, and choice. (which of these two shirts do you want to wear? etc.) A lot of the compulsive negatives are driven by a feeling of not being understood or heard. It is astonishing how much irritating and unsafe behavior just stops when my kids feel heard.

7) Listen to how I feel to see how they feel. Again, much of the acting up, obsessive exploring, etc., is generated by emotional processes. If they're doing something that drives you bonkers, it may be because they're being driven bonkers by something else (including things you do re: them, even if those are necessary and useful things). If time out gets a laugh from her, and that just makes you feel insane, not heard, powerless, confused, confounded, and frustrated... guess what. That's how time-out may feel to her. The laugh may seem like her true reaction, but far more often when there's a big feeling inside, they try to get YOU to give the reaction, instead. You're functioning as a portion of their emotional processing (this is recognized by neuropsychology as a normal typical behavior pattern in childhood). So read yourself, if you want to read them. The thing that drives me nuts is as likely to be what I'm doing to them as what they're doing to me. Child is being inflexible? Am I? Child ignores me when I need them to pay attention? Am I ignoring them when they need me to pay attention? It may not always be the case, but it shows up to an embarassing degree in my house... We still use this with our 9-year old. If he doesn't listen/respond, we know we're not listening to him, either. When we start listening, he starts listening back. This ties right back into 'solve their problem first' - it is just another way of knowing what their problem IS.

8) Architectural solutions to social problems. If it isn't safe, put it where it can't be reached. Gates, safety devices, more gates, outlet covers, rearranging the kitchen, changing the latches, etc. We gate off the safety issues, mainly - those superyards are great around a TV, stereo, or computer. Kid has free range outside that, inside that is safe. We gate off the radiator, made all the low cabinets and drawers either entirely kid-safe or latched, and made it possible for the kids to get 'into' their stuff safely (including the bathroom sink for our water-obsessed twins). If they can't be safe, either make it impossible to get injured, or make it possible for them to do it safely. That should cut the endless rounds of safety end-runs down about ... well, between 20 and 80%. But anything is a blessing until they develop a sense of caution. If they do. Meriel hasn't, and she's 2. Not sure if I want her to be CAUTIOUS (our oldest is CAUTIOUS, and he struggles to learn the edges of his ability as a result... I'd rather have a bit of rebellious exploration).

9) Last, I promise! Watch what you model. They're great mimics at this age. If they're messing with your stuff, do you mess with theirs? They think it is okay, because you do it. If they see you yell at your spouse, then they feel it is okay to scream at you. Are you safe, respectful, and kind with your partner? With them? This is a biggie for us - we were safe, and kind, but respectful was a struggle. Not hugging them when we really really really just need to squeeze them because they're SO SO SO SO SO cute right now! Um, no ask, no permission, no hug. Okay, so we blow this one, too (regularly - that neck soo calls out for kissies! Asking is HARD!). But we also recognize that if we're trying to teach respect, we have to model it.

*** PHEW!

Maureen, I have twins, so I feel your pain. My solution for that age was... um... grit my teeth, intervene quickly, and offer other outlets. And grit my teeth again, because there is often no way to solve Toddler A's issues without exacerbating Toddler B's issues. Wing it, wing it again, blow it both times, work around to making another go, and institute as many 'architectural solutions' as possible. So yes, that means when Rowan was pulling Meriel's hair constantly, I cut Meriel's hair short so she couldn't get a good grip on it anymore. Solved. Sorta.

*BUT* This highlights one of the other main things I've learned though having twins, which I so wish I'd known earlier (I suspect having several kids will teach it as well):

THEY AREN'T RUINED YET.

Really. There's time to get this right, it doesn't have to be perfect right this minute. These behaviors are mainly age-appropriate, and even kids who bite and kick without much boundary-setting generally learn not to when they pass out of the stage. What you're doing is not ONLY trying to manage their behavior for now (which will only be partly successful and will take a lot of energy - which isn't to say don't do them, just don't beat yourself over degree of success!)... but what you're reallyd doing is set up the pattern of 'things we value and find important, what things we say and do, what things we say and DON'T do, what things we do but never mention'. That is, the family culture. You don't have to be 100% successful with the details to set up the pattern properly, and have them grow into it as they get older.

We set up 'you are responsible for your actions' - we are safe, respectful, kind. We must solve the problem we caused with another (please ask if she wants a hug, or if saying sorry is what she needs, and that includes us making apologies for disrespecting our kids, even lovingly). We make amends. We plan ahead, remind ourselves and others how to act in real words without mind-reading, and are clear about our expectations (most of them, eventually, if we knew what they were before things got out of hand...).

Toddlers WILL NOT SUCCEED at their tasks right away, if you are doing this right. Yep, I said that - it will not work perfectly if you are doing it well. It will work mainly, mostly, under typical conditions, after some effort and practice. Heck, when I've found a solution that works 100% all the time on the first try, I later discover that I've WAY overdone it and they're now traumatized (that's what we learned with Gabe). I aim for 85% success rate, with the rest being on me to make sure they're safe and compliant with the rules. And then they have the next task they're learning, and the next area of exploration to discover, and the next layer to categorize. Usually in an ongoing layered pattern, so they're getting one thing, and working another, and just starting a third (or more).

So, for the 'pulling hair, biting, hitting' issue with twins, one last thought - find the cause of all of them. For twins, there's an issue that is not often visible with other siblings (though it can be, and was with our oldest): Over-identification with the other child. Just having too much shared stuff. That's it. Solve that, and the endless interference in each other's lives (bodies, play, etc.) goes down to a much saner level. Put clothes in separate drawers, label clothes, label toys, get play mats for each that are THEIRS and nobody else gets to sit on them or mess with anything that is on their mat. OWNERSHIP, of items, and of sense of self, that's a big issue that blooms around the pre-2 age (20 months and on), and is vastly improved by just being very clear where one child ends and the other begins. By 23 months, Meriel and Rowan could identify their initials, because it was important to them - this was MERIEL's brush, that one is ROWAN's. That's MY shirt. That's HER truck. (I take no credit for this concept - The Art of Parenting Twins was the source.)

Good luck, all! Once I 'gave up' trying so hard to control everything, and stopped investing so much of my heart and soul into getting it perfect, and learned to trust my kids to grow up as they grew up, it got much more fun to parent toddlers. I always loved it (even the first time), there's so much passion and life and excitement in it. But it bugged me less as I went, too. Not sure if that's a help for others, but it sure helped me!

[smashedpea]

We also have few rules and few no's for our 19 months old.

a few months ago, she was heavily into putting her finger up her nose and staring at whoever was there. We tried telling her not to do it, gently pulling her finger out, etc - but nothing worked. It became clear that she was doing it on purpose (and this does not include lack of attention, she's getting plenty), so we totally reversed strategy and completely ignored her every time she stuck her finger up her nose. After a couple of days, she gave it up completely. The same strategy worked at her daycare, too.

Now she loves to throw stuff on the floor, especially right after you've told her not to. Again, looks you straight in the eye, does it and then sometimes laughs. Nothing is working so far, but everything we do ends in a temper tantrum. Especially when she isn't allowed to sit in my lap after she's thrown something and refused to pick it up. I think we'll try the ignoring strategy next. But if anyone has anything to add, I'd be interested to hear it. Thanks :)

[hedra]

ooh, two items 6. I can count, really.

[hedra]

Smashed Pea, I would guess that the problem is somewhere else. Powerlessness, autonomy, a need for control. Give it in as many other areas as you can, and see what happens to the defiant rule-breaking. Her hurt when not cuddled afterwards is the point - she's needing something that requires comfort for her pain, and she's not able to figure it out or tell you what it is. This is as close as she can get to telling you that she WILL NOT, NEEDS, or MUST... something.

I think human IQ developed by the need to comprehend toddlers rather than just killing them in a fit of pique... ;)

[Ruth]

Love the "red light/green light" game, and the "solve their problem first" way of looking at things.

I'm cautious, though, about the "good job!" and "good girl/boy" type of praise, since it focuses on the "goodness" of the child, and not on taking joy in the act itself. I try to use an excitable positive reaction to the act, instead -- for example: {bubbly happy voice} "the food's back on the tray! yay!" (bonus points for making it rhyme!) or "hey! look! there you are! right next to Mummy!"
I only have anecdotes to suggest this, but focusing on the "goodness" of the one performing the act seems to be much more likely to produce malleable little praise-junkies with no independent initiative.
Which has its uses, in some contexts (and I say this as a malleable little praise-junkie with no independent initiative, so no judgement!), but it's probably not ideal. Especially not for girls, who already get far too bent out of shape by cultural pressures to "be a good girl".

[Anne]

Thank you!!!!! The timing on this post could not have come at a better time. My 15 month old is testing the boundaries and I'd like "no" to have some weight to it vs. it just being something mommy says ALL THE TIME.

[Lisa]

Thank you all for such great suggestions!

One more to add: we've been using "off limits" along with "hot," "dirty," "careful," and "gentle." The beauty of "off limits" is that it puts the emphasis on the unsuitability of the thing described (Dad's dirty shoes, Grandma's fragile tchotchkes) rather than on the kid. Our 11-month-old is starting to respond to this warning, at least for long enough to do a gentle redirect. Keeps the "no"s to a useful minimum.

[kt]

Love the ideas. Does anyone have suggestions for a class like the one Moxie describes in DC? Not just a movement class, I can google on that easily enough, but with a person that "gets" kids at this level? Oh, and just to make things harder it'd be nice to have it on weekends.

[Foster]

Ruth, you are correct about the "praise junkies." If you are looking for more info to back up your feelings, look up Alfie Kohn. Hes a pompous ass, but he has written about it and not *everything* he says is shit. I really really try to simply say "Thank you for xyz" or just thank you in a normal tone to my kids. This is b/c of the praise thing and to teach them polite ways to speak. I do appreciate it when they so what I ask, but Im not about to throw a party b/c they did something they were supposed to do.

The best piece of kid instruction I received was "Dont tell a child to do something that a dead man could do." I forget who said it. It means dont say things like "Dont touch" b/c a dead man could easily not touch things. When one of my kids is climbing onto the table for the 39481237th time, I pull them down and say, "If you want to climb, there is the climber right over there," and I point to the climber. If I only tell them to get down every time, they will do it 934834897 more times. Most of what Hedra said gets incorporated into my classroom in different ways. She basically outlined an early childhood class for you, which is nice, and didnt cost you the money that it cost my parents :D We use the word nice instead of kind and we say "not nice" for bad things b/c we cannot say things like "bad."

Just two things: Getting your daughter to listen will probably take A LOT of work up front, but once the two of you fall into a pattern, it gets MUCH easier. Yes, you MUST get up EVERY TIME and stop/redirect a behaviour even if you just sat down! Annoying, but *shrug*

Thing two is, one of the down sides of working in a daycare is that you get to see a lot of people doing it wrong. I will tell you from what I personally witness that the people who say no a lot and try to micromanage are the ones who have the hardest time and who never seem to be having any fun (and the kids are always getting picked at). Creating a harmonious yet disciplined environment truly is a dance, but when you have it, you know it. I have 8 one-year-olds, and *at least* 80% of the day, things are flowing so smoothly that I can hardly believe it b/c I know all the stress it took to achieve it, but it has been SO worth it :DDD

[hedra]

Ditto again on praise junkies and instead using very specific praise of action rather than of self ('I like the way you helped your sister. That was thoughtful and kind.'), rather than the 'good/bad' generalizations. Again, categorize. We use polite, kind, respectful, generous, thoughtful, caring, loving, creative, funny, etc. I also try to point out the other person's reaction if there's another party involved. ('see how happy she looks!') Praise the action, love the child. That also helps them separate out failure (or early struggles to succeed) from identity and self-worth, if success is separate from identity and self-worth.

And ditto also on toning down the praise to a calmer level (though still with focus and attention) once they've 'got it'. This is actually a dog training trick ('shaping') - you reward all approximations of the behavior you want, and when they get it really right, you give them a JACKPOT reaction. As they get closer to the correct behavior over time, you tone down your reward for the already-proven behaviors, and functionally 'raise the bar' in small increments.

Even dogs understand jackpot (in their case, a handful of treats rather than just one treat). But if you give jackpots all the time, they get very dependant on them, and become stressed if they don't get their jackpot. Keep it calmer (but immediate and direct) for things that are 'almost', and jackpot for the on-target (at least age-appropriate target). Allow the bar to go up gradually over time, and expect some variation in skill levels - kids go forward and back in development, so there WILL be some backsliding at times. Just respond to the level, reset the bar, and work up again. It doesn't indicate failure on your part, just change on theirs.

And Foster also supplies one of our other parental pitfalls - not putting our bodies into it. There's no way to really teach this stuff from across the room, sitting on the sofa, etc. We have to get up and get into it physically - be present, get down on the floor, lean down or lift up, touch, physically guide. DH and I find that our voices go up and our frustration goes up (and compliance goes down) when we don't haul our exhausted bodies off the chair, sofa, etc. Mid-distance parenting doesn't work, and it means we teach that we'll only 'get into it' when things get to a certain level of disaster. If we 'get into it' early, the actual amount of energy expended goes DOWN, because we've solved the problem before it becomes a crisis, before we're really frustrated and upset ourselves, and before our kids have learned that they can push that button five times before mom will get up and come over, so they've got five repeats of freedom. (That's another dog-training trick, too - the dog learns when you reinforce up close and personal, so if you say 'sit' and then gently encourage the dog to sit, they learn 'sit' means to sit down. If you say 'sit. Sit! SIT SIT SIT! SIT DAMMIT!' and *then* go make them sit down, the dog will wait for the SIT DAMMIT! before sitting. Because that's the signal that means they must sit now. Kids are smarter than dogs. They'll pick up on much more complex and subtle cues - they know when you shift your weight forward to get up off the sofa, that's their cue to comply. How many of us remember our parents doing that, faking the getting up to come over there so we'd comply? LOL! Or wince, since I realized the problem because I did just that, myself...)