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The 10-year-old's reading

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Kate

Did she remember it in the morning? (Hard
to tell, probably, at 16 mos.) Did she get sick within a day or so?

She doesn't seem to have a textbook case of night terrors, but the timing (relatively soon after going to sleep) and the description seem to be night terrorish to me. They don't remember them--was she confused about waking up in your bed?

My daughter has had episodic sleep terrors--sometimes during naps!--(she's almost two), starting at about 10 months. She doesn't thrash either, just screams and cries inconsolably with her eyes closed. Either doesn't acknowledge us or pushes us away and has to calm herself down. It takes up to an HOUR for this to happen. It is horrible.

FWIW Ferber (in Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems) discusses sleep terrors and nightmares in detail. I don't use his sleep training at all, but his book was reassuring when it came to this. He says sleep terrors can happen as early as six months--an incomplete waking from non-dreaming sleep.

The reason I asked about her getting sick is that my little brother (and the son of one of his preschool teachers, which is how my mom figured it out) would get them has a prelude to running a fever. He got them from ages 2.5 to 11 (fewer as time went on). They were awful to watch too; he wandered the house half awake and terrified.

Sorry so long-winded and disjointed (nak), but I think it's worth taking Ferber out of the library.

Sara

My son has had night terrors on and off since he was about that age. They really are upsetting.

For him, it really is all about the developmental stage thing. If he's working on a new skill, either linguistic or motor, its way more likely that he'll have one.

What I found is that trying to completely rouse him from it made it far worse and took much onger to get over. They're not really awake during them, and if you *make* them come to full consciousness, it seems to bring the whole thing into working memory and then they have to process how upset they are in the "real world." They find themselves in a different place with an actual *memory* of being upset, and that would (for us) spin into a long and awful crying fit.

So we would stay with him, touch him, hold his hands, hug him (once he was in a twin bed where we could lie down next to him) but never pick him up, move him from room to room or anyplace well-lit. What worked as a baby would be a firm hand on his chest,gently rubbing, and soft, simple, very repetetive words. And slowly he'll subside back into real sleep.

Once he was potty trained, they did involve wetting the bed. Except he'll still half-rouse, and we'll find him sleepwalking towards the bathroom, entirely unaware of his surroundings, and then he'd get really upset. A full bladder can actually trigger night terrors/sleepwalking.

Moxie

Crap, Kate. You mean I really have to take Ferber out of the library again? I just gave him back.

It's probably worth spending the money for a used copy at this point (for me, I mean--not for you guys).

:)

K.

Probably not worth the effort for one night, but if night terrors become a consistent problem, homeopathy has excellent track record on this problem. There are some remedies that are perfectly suited for children's night terrors.

Kate

I inherited my mom's copy of Ferber. It must have been hanging around her house for years--my brother's 19 now! He has a very good breakdown of various sleep disturbances (from infant through teenagers).

We were never able to tie Miss M's sleep terrors to anything in particular, unfortunately. She often cries out in her sleep--not a full blown terror, but a minute or two jag. Enough that one of us goes to check on her and returns shrugging to say that she isn't awake. The brain is a mysterious thing...

Paula

Good Morning America did a story on this a few years ago. They recommended keeping a sleep diary to see if there is a pattern to the terrors, and then waking the child 15 or 20 minutes before the terror was likely to start to short circuit the cycle.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TurningPoints/
story?id=127864&page=1

Just one more idea....

shayneegray

I have often wondered if "bad dreams" or the infant equivalent could be behind our sleep situation. My 16-month-old daughter wakes every one to two hours throughout the night, crying woefully. She begins to cry while still asleep (I have watched her do this on numerous nights) and actually wakes herself with her own cries.

Sometimes while I'm holding her and comforting her, she has these "episodes" in which she jerks, breathes erratically, and wimpers, as if trying to flee something; she often cries out as well. During these times, I cannot rouse her with my voice or a gentle touch as I can during restful sleep. Instead, I just hold her until she settles more peacefully, usually after about 10 minutes.

I have begun to think of these episodes as bad or vivid dreams--both my mom and I have very vivid dreams and sometimes experience partial/incomplete waking from a dream, where we're aware of what's going on around us but cannot move or speak. If something like that were happening to her, it would make sense that it would frighten her and lead to crying out. (I realize that she's not experiencing this every time she wakes through the night, but I think it happens often enough that she associates waking with being unhappy/frightened, so she always cries in her sleep or as she's waking up.) It's reassuring to hear about the Ferber notion that such dreams can begin at a young age. Sorry for the length of this!

Carla

My son had these for a while and my Ped recommended the sleep diary and waking him up because true "night terrors" typically occur around the same time at night.

My son's were short lived and we just brought him to bed with us and sort of comforted him without smothering him (he would thrash around crying without waking up).

I hope it is short lived because it is hard to see your baby crying and scared but not awake.

Kate

Just to note that Ferber (and from personal experience from dealing with my brother) recommends AGAINST trying to wake a kid having a sleep terror. They are in a very deep sleep stage and will be difficult to rouse; plus if you DO manage to wake them, they will be very confused/scared and it will be extremely difficult to resettle them.

Comfort them if they allow it; if not, keep them safe and gently guide them back to bed (yours or theirs). They'll re-enter sleep at a pretty deep stage--it can take a while--and continue along with their night and won't remember things in the morning. My brother was always confused about waking up in a sleeping bag in my parents' room (until he got older and knew the drill).

bernalgirl

Very helpful, thank you. We made sure we had a weekend lightly filled with familiar activities and she seems fine. I think walking is really blowing her mind, as she's definitely a bit more of a fragile flower lately.

I was a bedwetter, so I suppose it's a good possibility she'll be one, too. And I agree, the prospect of wet sheets is way better than seeing her this distressed again.

karla

my son has night terrors and i remember calling his doctor and crying as i was telling her what he was doing, because it was so heartwrenching. he would curl himself in a tiny ball and scream like he was in terrible, horrible pain....and then run through the house with eyes wide open, terrified-looking. sometimes he would scream, and he would ALWAYS push us away if we tried to comfort him (and sometimes he would hit at us, like we were the frightening thing).
After lots of CAT scans and ultrasounds and other invasive testing, doctors came up with no reason for his "pain", (which is what i was sure it was).
Doctor then brought up night terrors and suggested we start keeping track to see if there was any pattern. There was. He woke up about 1 1/2 - 2 hours after he first fell asleep and then 2 hours after that....sometimes two or three times/night. Doc suggested giving him more naps during the day (night terrors are from lack of sleep) and gently rousing him from sleep before the night terrors would naturally occur. You don't need to get him up...just rouse him/her a little until you know he/she is no longer sleeping, and then cover them up and leave the room. This really effortless solution has helped to stop the night terrors almost 100%. Sometimes, if my son is sick, and is not getting much sleep (due to cough/fever), he will slip back into the same night terror pattern.

honey

wow, I'm glad I came to read "Ask Moxie".

Our experience w/ our 23mo has been very similar to shaneegray's. He started with the wretched crying/screaming at about six months, it was awful because it sounded like he was being stabbed to death. We cosleep, and after a few minutes he'd inch closer to me and nurse himself back to quiet sleep. When we asked the Ped, he suggested what has already been said, to wake him up just before the time he'd normally have a terror episode. But I chose not to try it because my baby's otherwise a very light sleeper and he doesn't have an episode *all* the time, whereas if he does wake up... life is NOT good. I do think hitting some developmental milestones might've been a trigger for him early on but it's been a looooong time now since he's had a night terror. He does still sleep with us and seems to do better snuggled up against one of us -- as in, he also gets those episodes where he cries out or whimpers for a minute or two when he's napping by himself but not when he's snuggled with someone. FWIW, I remember having night terrors where I'd wake myself up screaming (and my grandmother bringing me to her bed), and I've also always had very vivid dreams and nightmares. My husband and his first son also have a history of sleepwalking, so I think our baby is genetically predisposed to sleep issues...

Anyway, sorry for the long comment. My real point was to say that I totally recommend that if your daughter is saying "hug, hug, hug" you should hug her even if she's not awake. Obviously her brain will process that information and the comfort of being hugged will help her settle. If you touch her and she screams louder, then she should not be touched or moved. Just wait and be patient, don't force anything to happen. Some nights my son would cry hysterically during an episode for what seemed like an eternity before finally latching on and settling quietly. The brain *is* an amazing mystery and we don't yet have enough information to really understand what's going on. When I first started dealing with this I found very little information, just like Moxie, so I had to go with my mommy instinct. I have another son (different father), and he's slept like a log for the last 15 years, from the day he was born. My sons are total opposites.

SZ

My brother had night terrors for our whole childhood. He would sit up with his eyes wide open and scream bloody murder while sound asleep. Once while staying at our cousins' house, he sleepwalked into the parents' bedroom and started screaming while standing at the foot of their bed, which of course made them start screaming, too. (now it's funny. back then, not so much.)

The key thing that makes a night "terror" different from a bad dream is that the kid has total amnesia after a night terror. He scared the living daylights out of the rest of us many times, but he has no memory of any of those instances, no memory of any bad dream or scary thing. (only of waking up and going, "Wha..? Mom, how did I get in your bed??")

As he got older the screaming stopped, but he would still occasionally walk around the house or talk in his sleep (as do many other members of our family). Even in college he once locked himself out of the dorm, sleepwalking in his skivvies. It seems clear to me (though I'm not a brain expert!) that night terrors/sleep talking/ sleep walking/ bedwetting are all related, and are definitely hereditary.

My mom still talks about how the sound of his screams would make her "levitate off the mattress" from jumping up in fear so fast. But once it was established that he wasn't in any pain, he didn't remember it afterward, and he was otherwise well-adjusted, it made it much easier to deal with.

And now it's my sister-in-law's problem, anyway! :) Heh.

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  • My expertise is in helping people be who they want to be, with a specialty in how being a parent fits into everything else. I like people. I like parents. I think you're doing a fantastic job. The nitty-gritty of what you do with your kids is up to you, although I'm happy to post questions here to get data points of how you could try approaching different stages, because, let's face it, this shit is hard. As for me, I have two kids who sleep through the night and can tie their own shoes. I've been a married SAHM, a married freelance WAHM, a divorcing WOHM, a divorced WOHM, and now a WAHM again. I'm not buying the Mommy Wars and I'll come sit next to you no matter how you're feeding your kid. When in doubt, follow the money trail. And don't believe the hype.
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